Riz Khan - Population Explosion - 17 July 08 - Part 1

[sharkblubber]

making people rich may make them have less kids but only because they spend so much more time consuming resources i.e. less kids means higher consumption per capita in rich countries. The only thing we can do to balance this out is for rich people to have even less kids by using voluntary means such as contraception or for people to stop consuming (most prefer the former). the rich are the most overpopulated of all because they rely so heavily on oil, a dwindling resource, for intensive agri.

[sharkblubber]

The richer you are, the more you consume per capita. Decreasing family size through voluntary use of contraception in ALL countrues, rich or poor is the only fair way to reduce the unsustainability/overpopulatio­n of humans. Without oil we cannot feed everyone. Any civilisation that uses resources faster than it replaces them collapses. Oil runs low in 40 years max!

[crayzal]

Dear pronatalist

Thank for you the conversation, i do believe that anyone reading this thread now has enough information on both sides to make a decision. I dont believe any non christian would side with you unfortunately. Cheers

[rajarajan32]

Another neo liberal bullshit.Over population is fucking the indian subcontinent front and back.

[pronatalist]

To rajarajan32:

There is such an obvious alternative to the uncivilized, anti-people population "control" suggestions of educated-way-beyond-their-inte­lligence elitist morons. People should explore how to populate denser, so as to find or make place for everybody's progeny. There can come to be more places with lots of people and fewer places far from lots of people.

All nations should do their part to help the world hold more people, especially by populating denser with their own children.

[rajarajan32]

If your arguments are based on pro-life christian ideology,then I really don't know how to convince you on this subject but, take it from a person,who grew up in rural India,overpopulation is the main reason for our misery.

[pronatalist]

To rajarajan32:

Could you explain to me, I'm just not getting something here, Let's say we had a magic wand we could wave, and half the people of India would just disappear into another dimension, let's say another earthlike copy of a world, so we don't have to lament the loss of their lives. (They similarly get rid of half their people.) How does this make India a better place, with so many empty homes and businesses?

Poverty is caused by corruption and stupidity, not from high population.

[moncheej1974]

The point is that with all those people gone, there will be enough food harvested to FEED the remaining population. GET IT NOW! When you don't have enough food to feed people Who gives a shit about empty shops and businesses!

[crayzal]

The problem is not Indian, its western living that demands HUGE amounts of resources.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

No, huge amounts of resources is not the problem.

"Developing countries should become more like us, to better support their burgeoning populations. We should become more like them, and have more children." Pronatalist

A more modern and better/more developed world, is a world better adapted to populate denser and hold far more people upon the planet. The many growing big cities, need cheap and abundant and dependable energy to power them, which helps humans grow ever more numerous.

[crayzal]

I could not disagree more. People no matter how efficient require resources. Extracting resources, growing food, disposing waste, all create significant problems for the planet. More people is just a higher multiplier.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal

So, for what purpose does the planet exist? For it's own purpose? Not hardly. What is the earth but a ball of mud with grass on top? Where's the soul or desire for life in that? Just a chemical/biological "life" process, but without human souls, what does anything matter? The earth exists for humans, or for God. The earth is the Lord's, Psalm 24;1

Presents problems? So? Don't humans need some challenges to grow, and to not be lazy? To spread human life, the challenges are worthwhile

[crayzal]

Your god, not mine. Most people on this planet are not part of your religion so i wouldnt expect them to participate in your ideology. Slowing human growth is a good thing whether people 2000 years ago who wrote your bible think so or not.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal

What is the point of worshiping some false god who is either imaginary, or contrary to humans prospering?

It would seem that most of the reproducing parents, do not accept nor believe that slowing human growth is a good thing

It's a natural and proper process that human life produces more human life. We see in nature that life spreads to fill most every available niche. Why not more so, with supposedly intelligent human life? Inventions aren't merely for comfort, but to spread life

[crayzal]

Good question, why do you worship an imaginary god?

I agree, when technology allows it the human population should grow. The way you use the word 'natural' is misleading. Death is natural, lets try to avoid mass amounts of it. Just as a deer population can grow uncontrollably and then starves itself by over breading, so can we unless we take preventative measures.

Can parents tell you whether the world can withstand this current exponential growth? Listen to the experts.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

I was saying not to worship today's false idols, in place of God.

The technology already allows the human population to grow and grow, that's a potent reason why I was saying to urge the human race to grow naturally unhindered.

I am for freedom, so of course let human populations naturally expand "uncontrollably" and supposedly naturally "overbreed." There must be some "control," but only the lax controls seen in the Bible - Marry first, provide for your children

Humans can ADAPT

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

Don't we let human pregnancies expand naturally? If the mother's belly isn't naturally expanding, the pregnancy becoming more obvious for everybody to see, then something's wrong.

Some sensible liberals may say that the growing population makes for more people needing to become sexually active. I very much AGREE. Exponential population growth was obviously God's idea. Our ancestors understood that, hence natural increase was a GIVEN.

No need for condoms, we can populate far DENSER

[crayzal]

wow, your out there. Get this, most of the world does not believe in your god. Stop preaching and stop basing "facts" on him. They are NOT facts, if so, prove them with science.

There is no doubt that we can increase the population, but we shouldnt! why? because we have 1 BILLION people hungry right now. Do you want to make it 2 billion? Or do you want to reduce the number of suffering. Your a cruel person if not.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

We must also increase population, because people need freedom and options. Obviously, people with freedom and options, many will choose to naturally grow their families. Family size isn't so easy to "decide" as rampant contraceptive pushers make it out to be. Sometimes, family can grow to 3 or 4 children, even before parents hardly realize their family might be starting to get "big." And many still want at least 3 children, if not more.

Today's false libs oppose choice = tyranny!

[crayzal]

Our ancestors understood a lot of things. Like how there is a sun god, and how he like it when we slaughter a goat for him. And how the world is flat and men will never fly. Apparently your on the same line.

The Christian god does not exist.

Population was not given, its evolution.

Condoms save the world from unwanted children and people from AIDS.

We are bleeding the world dry and people like you say God wants us to. Your thoughts, if more believed it, would cause many more children to suffer.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

Humans of course should be urged to go on increasing population. There's so many great reasons that parents have as many children as they do. Because they CAN feed more children, because they love their children, because babies happen, because people insist upon need to enjoy sex within responsibility of marriage.

More mouths to feed does not make more hunger. It makes more jobs, more opportunity, more possible profits for farmers. Gov corruption and fiat paper money causes poverty

[crayzal]

Who do you think should grow? North America? White people? Sure industrial nations can feed their population, hopefully more countries become industrialized. Why? Because people naturally produce less children under those circumstances.

1 in 6 people are hungry, dont you understand that? The world needs to fix this problem before it gets worse.

Points

More people = less farmland.

Marriage is not a prereq for sex.

Children is a choice separate from sex.

Thanks for not referencing your god.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

Who do you I think should grow? All people living everywhere. Some article cited that the number of women of childbearing age is higher than it has previously been, as a prime reason for so much population and the growth of supercities. But of course. As the number of potential birth canals rises, people should be encouraged to marry, and welcome their babies to go on pushing out.

Hunger is caused by poverty and corruption. Not by adding more mouths. Pronatalism helps us ADAPT.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

You say that more people means less farmland per capita? Might be nice if we had more, but the present day reality suggests humans do need to be populating DENSER for everybody and all their progeny to somehow fit upon the planet.

More and more people are glad to come alive and live, so urge villages to spread over more land and grow closer together. We can spread outwards, closer together, and/or stack into the sky into highrises.

Marriage is prereq to assure provision for kids.

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

It's a simple fact of nature, that we can't keep on adding more and more billions, to a planet not gaining much more land, without having to overall populate denser. There's but only so far on a spherical globe that people can spread out, before they run into themselves again. God's commandment to multiply has not expired. So we can also "scoot over" and spread back together.

So many people and humans so horny. Urbanize planet to whatever extend needed. Keep door to life open!

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

The point of industrializing or developed countries, isn't at all to reduce typical family size. Like quite many religious people, I do not believe in anti-life sabotaging the body's reproductive system, to hinder its natural babymaking capabilities. I am not Catholic, so I don't believe in practicing rhythm either. The "no method" method is more natural and most pro-life, ideal to welcome natural growth of human race.

Development should be for better ACCOMODATION of natural growth

[pronatalist]

To crayzal

Sometimes, all around me, it seems people are having babies. In my old Church, somebody's always just had a baby, the nurseries are always full of babies. At my new small Church, somebody just had a baby, somebody's about to have one, and there's several small children already. So many people have babies, no concern for there to be any natural deaths first so population doesn't just naturally rise and rise.

Some website somebody linked to, had proud painted preggo bellies. Fishbowl,

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

I've noticed pregnant bellies poofed out their shirt, which of course is fine, as is breastfeeding in public, which I've also noticed on an occasion or 2

I do not believe humans need always "control" every aspect of nature, some aspects that benefit or don't harm us, may remain naturally "wild," as our own natural increase. Or not having to fight every remote wilderness natural forest fire. Sometimes more beautiful to just watch nature "do its thing"

Sex makes babies, not separate

[pronatalist]

To crayzal:

I must mention God from time to time, because Christianity is central to my pro-freedom, pro-human views. Without God, what do I care if the world goes to somewhere in a handbasket? Should I only care about me?

I don't always make reference to God, because I wish to speak to the issue, not merely "preach" religion. Bibles are everywhere. So are preachers and religious websites. My focus as internet street preacher, is somewhat different, to speak to issues the Church neglects.

[toysrus123456]

We can expect Africas population to boost add in a billion more humans, this will happen despite Aids taking lifes.

We cant civilize, educate and feed this many people

hail the New world order

[pronatalist]

To toysrus123456:

You need to read a whole lot more on the arrogant powermad nonsense cabal conspiracy of the New World Order, how it lacks any reasonable checks and balances to limit natural human corruption, no means to hold elitist powermad rulers accountable, etc.

Not only would they use tyranny to decimate population size, but wouldn't there also likely be rampant poverty, misery, rampant human rights abuses? Where would the refugees go?

Let the human race grow naturally unhindered.

[moncheej1974]

If you let the human race grow naturally unhindered, then you also must allow and accept the natural checks and balances of war, famine, disease and conflict over resources to be unhindered.

[pronatalist]

To moncheej1974:

No, that is not true. Deut 30: 19 says to choose life, that thou and thy seed may live. Could mean many things, but obviously includes welcoming births to naturally outpace deaths. People prefer long life, but freedom birthrates. Population should accumulate, let us pop denser

[pronatalist]

Easy to support natural human population growth, where people choose to behave civilized, and with good governance and freedom.

[beebeemoocow1]

legalize abortion, heavy up our borders, 2 births per family... there U.S population controlled

[gainjoe]

the population of the people like this guy in seattle should be controlled. total asshole. paid monkey. he doesn't even believe what he is preaching. i can not think of a single benefit of having billions of more people walking around let alone a motive to defend this so stupid-enthusiastically!!

So "the only problem is to increase R&D" huh?? ok then lets repoduce like rabbits until there is no more room to stand and no more air to breathe.. sure the R&D guys can figure a way out..... asshole

[pronatalist]

To gainjoe:

What's the use of having billions of more people walking around? Huh? Shouldn't it be obvious? More people to experience life, proper accomodation of so many parents natural reproductive desire towards naturally enlarging the human race.

Welcome the natural flow of life. Let babies push out. All countries should be expected to populate denser and denser, especially via their own children, to do their part to help the planet hold lots more people.

Population does fuel technology.

[moncheej1974]

The problem with letting people populate is many of them don't stay where they were born, but move to other countries, some of which cannot sustain such population increases. Take Australia for example, the aboriginal population was never as big as the 19 to 20 million it is now. If it had been the whities would never had taken over.

[pronatalist]

To moncheej1974:

We have to let people populate more and more, because freedom to procreate is among the most basic and primal of human rights. They say denying the right to procreate is but one small step from denying the right to live.

I agree with population phobics on a few minor points, but not at all their anti-human anti-freedom focus. We can't keep adding more people to the planet, and keep doing everything the same old ways. But what if we would improve those ways?

Let humans spread!

[therealpizzaking]

The corporate elite is planning something. History repeats itself. The U.S. is on the rise to become real tyranny.

[DST911]

iran is more civilised then you think

[hatrangstb]

I agree with Martha. you have to control population growth first before there's sustainable development. there are many examples such as china, vietnam, singapore. you need to be able to manage the human pool before wealth can be distributed properly. that's strategic planning. it's too risky to let nature take its own course.

[dragonrasp]

This world is still in a state of utter chaos. We have war everywhere, be it civil, or between the United States and whoever is next on their list. It truly is a matter of money being utterly and completely wasted on military when it should be used for research and developement.

Until we have a united planet with 1 government and only 1 military uniform worn by all I just don't see this problem being properly solved. Loss of population from war and disease will be our unplanned solution.

[lproth]

never heard of civil war?

[Cogster69]

At LAST...

some one see the real issue with human life on this planet...

[AllieCaulfield]

I'm all for the sterilization of Mr Bjørn. His ideas are all about justifying the over consumption of the imperialist powers. Technology is not the solution. Bjørn doesn't even think global warming is real. He is fine with having the rich nations live in glass bubbles while the majority suffer and die.

[moejardines]

Lomborg's ignoring the fact that many areas with exploding populations aren't physically close to adequate supplies of water. (ie Pakistan)

I live in a place awash with water, but we're keeping it to ourselves. Its where the water is, and thus this is where population centers are supposed to be, around fresh water, duh! Overpopulation of arid environments is simply bad policy.

The southwestern USA? LA and Phoenix are living on the edge, in environments not suitable for huge populations.

[henh32]

Multiple answers to this problem. In the Western world, consumption is excessive e.g. Food mountains, Obesity and over indulgence. Other countries e.g China are following the example.

In the third world, population expansion. This could be cultural or the expectation that the more kids = more chance of one surviving and being a bread winner for the future. Another problem is lack of contraceptive availability and use. The Pope has a huge influence here.

[DCJusticeDC]

With all the technology, research, and wealth available, how can population growth be a problem? There is enough to sustain the whole world. It's not rocket science.

[hand15]

Many developed countries have low or even negative growth of population. The problem with overpopulation lies on those underdevelop world and in Arab countries. As we could see those Moslems always says they are the fastest growing religion (thanks to the fastest growth rate in the world), I see it as irony as they burden the earth and their children more.

[Khadijah4peace]

Actually the US population is growing and those other developed countries even if they have a declining population the developed nations still leave the biggest impact despite not having that many people. SO don't blame the Underdeveloped world, the devopled world consumes way way too much in terms of population

[qarnain06]

LOL! your maths is bad

[keytoothed]

If what the viewer says is true, you closet racist, Iran, an Islamic republic, has a for more progressive attitude when it comes to population control. You're a half wit. Stick to Fox News.

[billwambold]

We knew all this forty years ago and no-one did a damn thing about it The man is insane, stupid, show boat, or paid off,I hope he is happy living in his dream world...May he adopt a billion screaming starving babies... And testicular warts!