Even if his plan could lower the prices, even if by a long shot it works to make patient care something doctors care about again ... we still have extremist politicians who are against certain types of care, when they get into power again (and they will) ... imagine what procedures they would restrict and how many people they would allow to die just because of their beliefs. At least now you can choose insurance that covers what you need.
Judging by the fact that they chose to name their institute after a slaver, slum lord, ultra-reactionary snob, then I find it quite hard to take them seriously.
The people who work at CATO are GOP-paid welfare recipients who are looking after the interests of their funders, American corporations.
Their talking points are tested to have the maximum effect of the American population so that corporations to manufacture support for the policies the benefit corporate profit margins the most, without regard to policies that benefit the people who buy them
Its funny watching these paid shills advocate against the public option. LOL
Most people like to opine on the topic, but know precious little of the facts or the issues involved. I strongly suggest the blowhards on this post get a little education in economics, the healthcare economy and the real numbers of uninsured (and who they are) so that they can make informed comments. If you are parroting nonsense you've heard on television or read on Huffington post, you are wildly misinformed. In short, Obamacare will increase costs and reduce quality and choice. That simple.
@vanderbilt887 Heavily regulated, market-choking life on earth as we know it? We agree, Cato and other sound thinkers on economic topics are a minor threat to the myopic and foolish entity that is our government. Unfortunately, not enough of a threat to stop this resource-wasting juggernaut of a health plan from further deprecating the U.S. economy.
@vanderbilt887 I think you meant " demostrable". Your claim is quite a bold one. How do you supposed they are a "demonstrable threat to life on earth"? A Libertarian think tank? Has the power to destroy the way life works on earth. Quite a claim! A bit of Hyperbole there don't you think?
you asked us to belive and we did and voted. You promised small business would get help and did not. if your not hungry obahma that dont mean other people are not. Keep your word. I know you raised better than that
the republicans claim the health care plan is the worst thing to happen to this country. these are the same people who told this country there were weapons of mass destruction, go figure.
I don't think it is fair to say all Republicans "hate health care" or are "working for the insurance companies." Like I have already said, there were probably a fair amount of them that were just being disagreeable and spreading misinformation, but there were at least some that had ideas of their own that they really believed in.
Side note: all the people threatening Congressmen/women need to be put in jail, its unacceptable.
There may have been some Republicans that just didn't want to have the bill passed because they didn't want the Republican party (or themselves to lose), but I think that some of them really disagreed with the way they were approaching health care reform. Those that really did care likely thought that less government, more competition, more incentives, and general free market principles would have been a much better (and cheaper) idea.
Obamacare is barrel of a gun socialism. 16,000 new IRS agents will invade every aspect of your life. Now a government thug will control your health not a doctor. This bill is criminal and the backdoor, behind closed door way it was brutally forced on people is the biggest treasonous act in history.
same as with food- if somebody can't pay the doctor- they can get help easy.. but the communists don't care who pays the doctor as long as they can take over america's freedoms..
liberals are the stupidest people on earth.. how did the slimy rats get their foot in our door anyway? 16
The only country in this world that has a healthcare for profit is the US. If japan and canada and others can provide care to their people why not the US?
Why the use dont want because republicans want to rob you with health care cost!
$1 every second for 11.57 days is a million dollars. $1 every second for 31.7 YEARS is a billion dollars. $1 every second for 31,709 YEARS IS A TRILLION DOLLARS. OBAMA IS CRAZY. WE CAN'T AFFORD HIS STUPIDITY. Obama is broken in the head. He has never worked operating a business. I vote that if health care passes and it fails, Obama and all the politicians that voted for it should pay for the misfortune they have put on this country. This includes their children and their children's kids.
@BlameRepublicans: you will get out of my nation, you anti-American, Godless piece of filth. You hate America, yet you stay here and enjoy our beautiful nation....you belong in North Korea or communist China, you filth
The point made at 1:40 is completely BOGUS! The current system does NOT allow non-standard operating procedures. If you get your doctor to prescribe you a treatment that is "not standard" you risk getting your claim rejected like 99% if it's an expensive treatment.
Everybody today gets the average treatment already, you are kidding yourself if you think that you have access to "less standard procedures" and that your insurance will cover it!
10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits. How retarded is that? Robbing social security and medicare to pay for healthcare. How stupid is that? You gotta be a moron to believe that this bill is deficit-neutral. Focus on the economy, stupid, not health care.
BeastObrahma, it's because of people like you that all conservatives get lumped in with you loony religionists. While I have no love for Obama, he is not "the Antichrist", as there is no such thing.
It's a shame so many people have freed themselves from the shackles of religion only to sing the praises of the shackles of big government.
I like the way bald guy number 1 says that "you still face the POSSIBILITY of falling into a government runned health plan," even if you want to keep the plan you already have. But Possibility is not the same as Probability, and the rest of the video, the baldwin twins (you see what I did there? Like it? yes no maybe?) seem to later argue that it is a certainty that you will be forced to drop the health plan you already have and love and be chained to an inferior gov. plan.
My friend almost died in rural Norway, HE was badly hurt in a car crash! and he neded expert help in the hospital in oslo in few minutes! (and that was far far far away!.) So what our Sosialised healthcare system provided was A BIg Herules Airplane than the the Medical car drove in to and flyed to oslo. And he made it to a full recovery.. but spent almost a year in the hospital.. And gues what Americans; IT WAS FREE !
hey all you chumps wid all da money da man be pickin yo pockets and makin you think you like it...& be makin UNION JOBS at $80K EACH to FUDGE JOBS NUMBERS on YOUR DIME...CHUMPS..betta be findin ways to HIDE YO MONEY FAST or live under an underpass in a tent if you be lucky.....fools.....
The commodification of human health is fundamentally a good thing in that allows stakeholders to extract value from policy holders in exchange for truncated service.
ConservativeHealth, they spammed you but I shall here repeat your comment which is right and well versed in analysis of how market exchange functions:
THE COMMODIFICATION OF HUMAN HEALTH IS FUNDAMENTALLY A GOOD THING IN THAT IT ALLOWS STAKEHOLDERS TO EXTRACT VALUE FROM POLICY HOLDERS IN EXCHANGE FOR TRUNCATED SERVICE.
ECONOMIC GROWTH PROCEEDS HUMAN NEED.
What he means is that economic growth is based on purposive, human action and profit is increased through helping customers.
The Cato Institute is a respectable political and economic investigative institution, however, it is by no means impartial or objective. They will always oppose plans to strengthen govt or what they view as limits to freedom (which is good). I agree with many of their publications referring to South American politics; unfortunately, I notice they never admit that the free market doesn't always work. Sometimes govt is necessary.
By the way, there are also experts who support Obama.
u're sad and alone and i can't help u by keeping u company come to my page if u want or write to this channel i'll tell u where i'm posting 4 u 2 come if u honestly don't like obama we do that 666 is just 3 numbers u don't have to buy full antichrist package just say the poor guy's cursed by "UNFORTUNATE" numbers ! obama's in deep shit if u're sincere u can play this very conservative save ur soul and stay cool just say obama got tough luck
come and blast the antichrist satan obama and get him busted and sentenced for forging his birth certificate and accessed nuclear power thus history's worst criminal
Look bipolar disorder is treated and you can be cured. There is no god therefore no satan you moron. You need to learn history because if you're calling Obama worst criminal ever then you don't know shit. I wonder how things like you survive in this world. Must be pity.
I'm pretty sure a couple of 666 coincidences that you've pulled off of some conspiracy website do not make him the Antichrist, I'm pretty sure satan's son wouldn't let us know in any way shape or form that he is the son of satan.
KIll the HC 3000 pg Illegal Trojan Horse Mandate BIll devoid of any health care..
THE CBO Congressional Budget Office Repeatedly stated on every level of cost expenditures, absolute Monetary UNSUSTAINABILITY for this bill:::as an Irresponsible document where actual numbers are in stark contrast to hopeful predictions by factors of 25X or more..in many estimations especially in the uninsured demographic...
as a European i have a hard time understanding parts of this debate.
That you discuss if this would limit your freedom is understandable, since many of you have never seen reform like this. But arguing if this would throw your country into even deeper recession.. that's ridiculous! I guess the arguments are feasible, but look at the facts! look at all the European countries with government health care.. NONE of their economys have collapsed because of government health care.. Now that's a FACT!
@Crixu3112 They haven't collapsed yet as they have essentially been piggy backing off the innovations of the US. They get around falling over by rationing. Care delayed is care denied. Also none of them have the growth in terms of percentage and are essentially stagnant economies. That is a fact.
And the reason they haven't is because they never truly started off as a free market based system. In the United States we started healthcare in the private sector, but the government has crippled it with regulation.
You don't see crippled healthcare systems being socialized in Europe, only fairly socialist systems just being more socialized. The reason it won't work here is because your just adding more weight to the breaking floorboards of our healthcare system.
European Govt Theory is that rights flow from the Govt to the citizens, USA believes no Gov't has the right to infringe on our personal freedoms. No, your govt's didn't collapse. but they are socialist. We are Capitalistic and, when Gov't doesn't screw it up with unrealistic mandates or overregulation, it does it better than Europe WITH personal freedoms. We don't want Socialism
@Crixu3112 As a resident of Greece I have to strongly disagree with you. This country went down a long way to the bottom because of universal healthcare government regulating healthcare. Of course, no country has collapsed just because of that, but you are missing the point that public healthcare is a just of the big bricks on the wall. Most European coutries, such as Germany or France, have huge deficits because of their welfare system, so now they have to get into deep fiscal expense cuts.
@redpyramid88 In Australia, we have government funded single health payer health care. I tell people that the only reason that it holds up is because we have such a small population (22 million).
I find it odd that mostly everybody who supports healthcare reform in America can only find things to say about insurers and hospitals making too much, or that ABC is trying to spin the facts to lean in their favor. In contrast, everybody who has something to say about why socialist healthcare is not the answer, has something to say about the real issues the reform is meant to address - things like availability of treatment and the costs that can't be controlled, effectively wasting tax dollars.
1. If you think that you're watching a different debate than I am.
2. ABC didn't "spin" anything, the CATO Institute did.
ABC's coverage of this town hall meeting was balanced. The CATO Institute then took ABC's footage and deceptively spliced their own (biased AND inaccurate) commentary into it, hoping to convince a few rubes that they were actually included in ABC's presentation.
I find it hard to believe that the CATO institute has spun anything in their history as an academic organization.
ABC on the other hand is a shit bucket full of liberal assholes who will do anything to please the president, hence their airing of an hour long commercial for the president instead of a debate. He may have answered questions but he never had to make retorts or answer any additional challenges on his answers.
at 4.25 this guy says " the estimate is anywhere from 1 trillion to 2 trillion dollars" wtf????? thats like the mechanic saying sir the estimate to fix your car is anywhere from 100 to 1 million dollars... impeach this fool and his entire crew of socialist thugs before it's to late... please
$1-2 tril? The CBO projects that HR 3962 will reduce the deficit by $103 billion by 2019, while at the same time, insure an additional 36 million people who currently don't have insurance. That's directly from CBO's website.
Regarding publick health care I suport president's idea for change,todays insurance coverage helps more hospitals ane nursing homes then its patients.
if you check on ...justiceforbozidar... you will see that for obove mention institutions money was more important then its patient.
Steven, you are misguided. The plan on the table does not address the true needs in reform: giving consumers more choice, increasing competition in the insurance industry, and putting consumers in more direct control of their care (and keeping their liberties).
This plan does just the opposite. Obama favors statist policies that horde control, costing jobs, stifling innovation, and lowering standards of living. Your beef is not hospitals -- it's with the Federal govt.
Why do we have in record time an H1N1 vaccination at all? It's because of greedy private sector health care companies like Novartis and Sanofi-Pasteur.
Why are so many citizens susceptible to getting H1N1 anyway because the lack of the distribution of the vaccine?
A: Government. Welcome to Obamacare -- a shining example of what you'll get.
"Why do we have a vaccine in record time...because of private sector companies like Novartis and Sanofi-Pasteur."
Yes, because of Novartis (of Switzerland) and Sanofi Pasteur (of France). Two of those thriving, innovative private sector companies which you were just claiming could never survive in a country with an evil socialized medical care system.
Come on, at least try to make your pathetic, sophomoric free enterprise rhetoric SOUND intellectually consistent.
And both those companies that you just named are publicly traded companies, not private. Novartis is traded and does well in NYSE through NYSE Euronext.
I would conjecture that without being publicly traded in a free market system, Novartis would never be the international powerhouse that it is today. Note international, they don't sit in Sweden.
Can be also noted that Pasteur does operate in France, which is a mix of private and public healthcare, not a full socialist system that you imply.
18 of of the 21 Novartis research facilities are located outside of Sweden. As far as my research shows, the most important, productive and largest facilities are located in the U.S., and only ONE deals in corporate research, the rest are strictly medical in the broadest sense of the word.
There are 3 facilities in Sweden, but are fairly rudimentary.
I think you need to rethink your angle on the free enterprise and it's inherent want for innovation.
@TrollBuster9090: you overlook the 1000s of other crucial pharmaceuticals those corporations have created for the world. We pay more for those pharmaceuticals, so that the rest of the world gets them at an artificial rate...go pedal your nonsense elsewhere
It is not just health insurance that make hard life to the USA citizens but also greedy hospitals and nursing homes whitch look in to dollars then to help patients.
...justiceforbozidar... is exalpe the way people die when insurance expire.
Pleas make publick health care work for all citizens of the USA not just for rich and famous.
A public option is goes against the values and principles that have made American the global superpower and envy of the world. Support for the public option is based on lies and ignorance, and elitist attitudes that proclaim -- "gimme! gimme! gimme!"
The govt has been a barrier to competition, causing run ups an ineffiency and lack of consumer choice. The govt IS the problem. Socialized medicine will bring great harm to the economy and to all those who seek employment.
As I told you before, there would be very little competition if the "evil government " hadn't brought in anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws around the turn of the century. Before that it wasn't uncommon for large monopolies to control the commerce of entire states at ridiculous prices.
The reason health insurance costs are so high is because those HMOs are EXEMPT from those anti-trust laws.
There is a MASSIVE difference between laws and regulations. Laws are written and set up barriers. Regulations are enforced constantly, in real time, and only slow down processes. Of course Roosevelt did a great job busting trusts, but he never sought to regulate the shit out of them afterwards. The most he did was say "here's the line".
@TrollBuster9090: why don't you leave and go live in that communist paradise in North Korea, communist China (no, you'll not be allowed in Hong Kong..too capitalistic for your, scumbag), or wherever else you think your communism has worked so well. IDIOT
0:22 - That is simply not true. The CBO projected less than 5% of the public will be eligible for the public option. Employers or private citizens will not be able to transition into the public option. The exchange is for those who are uninsured. Also, regarding rationing, our current health care system ALREADY rations care. They already decide not to insure pre-existing conditions, and deny coverage for certain cancers!! This cut-up video clip is ridiculous.
regarding the statement from jnthlck, he is absolutely incorrect. If he were to read the bill he would see that the Exchange is in fact the requirement for the entire insurance industry. Every insurance company must join the Exchange and provide the care mandated by the government. This of course is followed by the fact that EVERY citizen will be required (by the bill) to be enrolled in the Exchange. Please don't comment on youtube if you don't know what you're talking about.
Respectfully you obviously haven't read the actual bill. In HR 3962, the exchange is limited *only* to those not covered by their employer, Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare or VA. NOTHING in the bill requires any private insurance company to participate in the exchange (if that's false, show me the line item). The exchange is for those who as individuals couldn't otherwise get insurance! Your statement is simply false. Make sure you get your facts straight before throwing accusations and falsehoods.
You're quite right, I mistook being a QHBP and being in the Exchange as equivalent. And though they're not, the requirements to become a QBHP without entering the Exchange seems enough of a trivial difference that they might as well be. So to rescind my statement is in order, but it's still scary to think that as an individual you are required to enter an Exchange issued plan, even if your employer can go out of the Exchange..... to a plan that is almost the same by law as the Exchange plans
You think trivial, but a big deal for CBO's projected of 36 mil people who are not currently insured & could get insurance thru the exchange in HR3962. And again, the exchange only exists to establish a pool of uninsured thru which private companies & cover individuals at affordable rates as if they were insuring a mid-size employer or larger. And the exchange will include a competitive public option (not subsidized by taxes, paid for by its customers) to keep premiums in the exchange in check.
Also, there's no requirement for individuals to *necessarily* get coverage thru the exchange. In HR3962 individuals must be covered, period. If youre not covered and decide to get insurance on your own, fine (you'll probably pay ridiculously high premiums and co-pays because you're an individual and have no leverage on your own). However an exchange will be set so you can join a pool of customers who will have leverage to keep costs down. That's the purpose of the exchange, nothing more or less.
Obama is pushing a slow brewed single-payer-system regarding HC.Obama said and I quote
" If I were designing a system from scratch,I'd set up a single payer system [but] making that transition in a rapid way , I think would be very difficult." He also said they needed the 3 branches of government to achieve this takeover, HEY! they are taking over our healthcare system!
We The People... get what we deserve if we don't fight this monstrousity, we are losing our liberties very fast. Truly.
Obama's healtcare program will expand the privet HMO & Insurance industry which is going broke because of bad investments in the Stock Market. We will be forced to buy and carry insurance if we want medical treatment. A medical panel will determine who will get medical treatment based of cost effectiveness. Heil hitler! Obama's program is just another Wall Street bailout. Obama is a Wall Street prostitute that will say anything to get some head. Google Video: OTC PM Report September 10, 2009
Question: were the CATO Institute "scholars" actually in the original ABC program, or are you guys being shifty by cutting the original program to make it look like they were? Without making the transitions between your commentary and the originbal clear??
I mean, that would be distorting the record, propaganda spin..
Why would scholars be part of a healthcare debate, why would anyone who actually knows anything about economics be part of the debate? That would be evening out the playing field by providing a realistic view of government run healthcare, exactly what the president and his cronies don't want.
So by your same half baked logic, fitzhamilton, the whole ABC news special is propaganda.(which it is indeed)
Hahah! Yes, you nailed it. ABC would never invite a bunch of corporate shills from the CATO Institute onto their program. So they just had to tape it off the TEE VEE, splice in their own sophomoric little commentary, and then hope people would view it and think ABC actually cares enough about CATO propaganda to put their "scholars" in their documentary. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Our government & representatives DO NOT work for the people of the U.S. They instead work for Wall Street Financial interests & shareholders. The purpose & job of our government is to care for & protect the people. It's job is NOT to care for & protect Wall Street. Our governments job is to Govern. NOT MAKE MONEY! We MUST return our government back to the people and we must support leadership that will take us there. What do you think? Google: LaRouchePac.comm
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It's funny... Where were all of you people when Bush lied you into two failed wars and screwed your economy? Nobody gave a flying shit, but now that there is a Black President that WILL make your lives better, y'all shit all over him. You people need to get your heads checked, you've got it all backwards. Obama is the best thing since Clinton.
It has nothing to do with him being black. Barrack Obama has way more blue blood white aristocratic connections than I or the vast majority of other white Americans. I as well as most other Conservative voters that I know from California, Idaho, and my time in the Army Infantry wanted Colin Powell to run for Pres back in the day so we could cast our votes for that 100% black American. People like you make this a racial thing, Those of us who oppose Obama do it because we oppose Socialism.
Then why don't you protest your Police, fire, schools, libraries and all other social services associated with making one's life better?
Nothing like twisting the word Socialism. Not everything that ends with ISM is bad. Stop fear mongering and produce facts. 3/4 of the stuff Republicans spread are straight up lies.
Read the Bill, it's available in it's entirety, there is nothing but good things in it. It offers EVERY American protection. Why is that wrong?
In the US there is a private fire fighting company called Rural Metro. They do a great job at a lower price.
I also noticed you didn't mention the post office. Is that because UPS and fed-ex do a better job for less?
Capitalism is the best ISM. Sure there needs to be regulation and government, but the dominant force should be Capitalism. Otherwise your get entiltlementism, the other side of the capitalism coin.
@bwtanner77 Obama is not about socialism. Obama leans to the right. So does most of the democratic party. The dems are going after the money just like the right. If you think Obama is about socialism then you need to read more. You are poorly read. Turn off the radio.
@rickbar123 Obama actually leans strongly to the left. You see, on the right, we stand for smaller government. And on the left, those want stronger government. Increasing welfare and regulation and enforcing it with force only increases governments power. So Obama actually does lean to the left.
@rickbar123 Political leanings are relative to the political evironment. I suspect you are from Europe or favor European style Government. Here in American where left and right are different, Obama does lean left...... Far left. America's true political spectrum spans from "No or very little government" (right,) to "Large Statist Collectivist Governments" (left). You should really try reading. American and European Politics are fundamentally different.
@Windsblow I am American. I favor a German social democratic system. No way Obama is to the left. I am to the left of Castro and I do not favor a collectivist Gov. Brother, you must turn off the Beck show.
@rickbar123 As I stated in my prior comment I nailed it on the head. You. I do favor European style government. Man can I call them. YOur rebuttle had 3 ignorant contradictions. I suggest you go ahead and study some basic politics philosophy ie. Idealism vs. Materialis and Collectivism vs. individualism just for starters. Then come back and claim that Social Democrats are not Collectivist. Oh yeah.. Glenn Beck? I that the best you Got? Another borish American psuedo-intellectual
@rickbar123 I will let you go ahead and figure that out on your own. I am not going to let you get off that easy. This isn't the American public school system. Go study The ideals of Locke, Voltaire, Hume, Engles, and Marx etc..... If you don't understand how Democratic Socialism is collectivism you really need to do some reading and research. Both Socialism and Democracy are both collectives. Thats why the American framers didn't create a Democracy.
@Windsblow German Corporations are free to make a profit, as much as they can, are they not ??? German CEOs are doing very well and so are the Boards. Folks like you just got to fuck the working man out of the crumbs that make him happy. That's right, the framers did not want a Democracy, the Masses did and still do. Many of the framers changed their minds after seeing what their first work was producing. Madison and Jefferson were sickened by what they saw as corporate take over.
@rickbar123 "Madison and Jefferson were sickened by what they saw as corporate take over."
-----------------
First, give the proof and the definition of "Corporation" and "take over" in the context of Madison and Jefferson. Second, Give me solid tangible evidence that they were "sickened" about it happening at that time. Don't give me quotes. Give me the actual tangible references that I can read in entirety and context
@rickbar123 I find it really ironic, if not totally moronic, to use Jefferson and Madison, both staunch Anti-Federalist, to back your position. They were so apposed to central powers and centrally planned economics that they were just shy of Anarchy, They understood the power of a Central Government would produce exactly what you complain about ie.... Corporate oligarchies. What you seem confused about is Jeffersons position on "Corporate Personhood".
@Windsblow Are you a half wit grad of Beck U ??? You must be Beck's star student. Jeff and Madison both did not care for the direction the so called "Better Men" were taking the country. Jeff gave a speech a few hours before his death that warned of early corporate rule (pre cap era). What they did not care for was the way "Better Men" bent Governments ear to make richer the few. Beck fills you with a narrow view of history.
@rickbar123 I agree with most of this statement. Again with the BEck thing huh? Is that the way you skirt the challenged to your point earlier? Pre Cap ere?There was no such thing. You once again fail to understand the Free Market. Your Capitalism is Corporatism which is the antithesis to free market. True Capitalism is Voluntaryism and Smith's Free Market. The Term "Capitalism" is a term coined my Marx himself and was a pejorative term intended to smear and redefine the Free Markets.
@Windsblow In Jeffs day there was no such thing as capitalism. Pre Cap. "If two business men are standing on a corner talking together you can be sure they are trying to figure a way to rob the public." - Adam Smith.
@rickbar123 So do mean to tell me that Adam Smith was anti Free MArkets?? Very interesting.... You must be a contortionist getting yourself all twisted up like that. That clever attempt of "out of context" quoting shows you intentional neglect of the facts. That quote dealt with his [Smith] personal conflict of theoretic monopolies, not the Free markets it's self. Just most ideologues like your self you cherry pick the facts and history. There is nothing more idiotic.
@Windsblow I never said he was anti free market. Your position is weak, you resort to low brow retoric in an effort to lift your argument. Adam Smith was aware of the invisible hand and knew the problem free markets would never escape from. Retire your argument, you have lost.
@rickbar123 I love how you ignore all my points. I clarified what I defined as Capitalism and still you only address State Corporatism. You are having a different conversation than me in order to continue with your collectivist talking points. Do you really mean to tell me there wasn't a free market system in those days? And if thats were true, it has no bearing on whether or not laissez faire free market capitalism is a superior economic theory compared to the Marxist economic materialism.
@Windsblow I do not seek to pit failed marxist ideas against failed capitalistic ideas against a failed corporate state. You need to do that so that your argument will carry some assay of weight. A true free market has been tried, it has failed many times. Retire, you lack the skill needed here. If you chose to go on, I will expose your tired, failed, despirate, lost position with no mercy.
@rickbar123 Please........ I ask for no mercy. So..... do you imply I not compare the historical outcomes of economic systems? How do you suggest I formulate an opinion? Should I seek councel from a mystic or just believe hard enough to make it true. You are a Marxist.... There a degrees to all things. You might not be a Soviet, nor a titoist but to some degree you [social democrat] do derive your political foundation from Marxist teleological theory. Or do you deny that.
@Windsblow I deny that. I favor the German system. The German system has the best of many systems. It is best for the masses. I warn you, your argument is lame..
@rickbar123 You deny that????? must reject the concept of social ownership, social justice, social solidarity and labor solidarity..... these concepts are the apitome of collectivism and keystones of the social democrat party. Whether or not you aknowledge thes are Marxist in nature is of no matter. They are still COLLECTIVE. I warn you....? I call your bluff.
@rickbar123 Once again you don't have the capacity to articulate and coherent argument. Thats why you have resorted to platitudes. I accept your humble bowing out of this debate.
@rickbar123 I wasn't real going to even validate this point by responding....... but, if a man kicks in my front door and kills my wife and I robbing me of life liberty and my property and rationalizing this crime through need. Then if he happened to be a raving, rabbed socialist and me being a capitalist then, by your logic, his socialism won and capitalism failed. Very simplistic argument and logically inept concept i would say.
@rickbar123 Please list the fail Free Market States that have failed and your theory as to why they failed. Try to stay on topic..... Please! Put some meat on your arguments for once. Oh yeah what about that political spectrum thing we were supposed to talk about?
@Windsblow Chile. At the point of a gun the Free Market failed. In the end , the Chicago boys fled the country. Pinochet himself wanted them dead. Russia. Puntin was put into office to end the shocks. Now the two biggest free market jackasses sit in jail. Siapan. Is a toilet, the free market is gone..........along with everything else. Most of Mexico, Juarze is the worst. Drug dealers belive in the free market and now they rule Mexico. Need I go on ?
@Windsblow South America sent Bush home with nothing. Bush wanted to expand free market trade with Chavez, Evo, Kirchner and Lula, they all laughed at him, he ened the trip early. Free market policy is rejected around the world.
@rickbar123 Is this your example that's going to crush my argument under it's sheer weight of truth?? GAFTA and NAFTA are the antithesis of free markets. They are centrally planned economic policy designed to empower the State and Corporations in an attempt to steal the power from the individual. The market didn't produce GAFTA. The uneducated and power hungry Statist produced GAFTA. Next!
@Windsblow GAFTA and NAFTA are sold to the stupid under the banner of free trade. You just don't get human nature. People steal, corporations bend the rules, a true free market can never exist.
@rickbar123 I guess we would have to first define what the definition of State or state and Capitalism or capitalism, but the short answer would be State Capitalism has more in common with Mussolini's Corporatism. On the other hand State Capitalism has has more in common, in principle, with Marxist philosophy than (c)apitalism (free markets). Philosophy(broad) and strict economic theory (narrow) are hard to compare.
@rickbar123 To get more clear idea ( to a large degree) of my view of capitalism read Ayn Rands America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business and What is Capitalism?
@rickbar123 I think we are off topic anyways......... I am still waiting for you to tell me how Obama isn't left of the American political spectrum. This time why don't you use Jefferson and Madison to prove your position. That would be quite entertaining.
@Windsblow How could Obama be to the Left ??? He is another Clinton. Two wars continue, Gitmo is still open, Refused to address NAFTA, a lame ass stim package, tarp funds paid back early, bonous for bankers continue, a health care bill that only insurance CEOs could love ........ You think he is on the left ??? You don't know shit about the left.
@Windsblow Collectivism may be a four letter word to you, an evil spook in the night. Don't waste your time, the masses today have no idea what it even is. You use words like that to boost a weak postion. They are lost on the Masses today, and do not scare me. Workers wanting health care and a good wage is not the end of the world.
@rickbar123 Just because the masses have been cleansed of historical knowledge, and perspective doesn't have a bearing on the argument at hand.
"Collectivism may be a four letter word to you, an evil spook in the night. "
----------------------------
60 million lives sacrificed in the name of "collectivism" is hardly a spook in the night! You either hold no value for human life or your lacking in the faculties to deal with concepts such as these.
@Windsblow Whatever you say Neo Con. America will have national health care. The more pain the middle class must endure the sooner we will lean towards a social democratic system. I hold no value for your life and I hope to live long enough to see Neo Con scum like you hang. It's class war, you will not win.
@rickbar123 Neo-Con??? I love the simplemindedness you possess, it is quite charming. I think Neo-Con are more dangerous than the intellectually lazy left here in America. I have nothing but distain for such a corrupt lot of Pseudo-Republicans. You should know who you are talking to before you start labeling people. BECk, NeoCon what else do you have. I am a Minarchist. I am sure you will have to wiki that.... Go ahead.... Wiki it up Plato.
@Windsblow I have no intrest in what you are or call yourself. I am for the worker, the masses and the poor. Capitalism is on it's death bed, thanks to the Wall Streeters and the CEOs. Those that stand together will end corporate rule. Deal with it.
@Windsblow Minarchist= Dumb ass that wants a small Gov so the "Better Men" can be free to jack the taxpayer of whatever they can. Maxarchist = A person that understands greed is a bad thing and only a big strong Gov of and by the people can protect the people from corporate rule and greed. Go back to the Beck show, big talker.
@rickbar123 Why to go.... Way to unzip that veil of Collective Altruism. the difference between me and you is I wish you a long life and I believe you have just as much value as me, or any other human for that matter. The end justifies the means for the Collectivist/Statist. Means is is that of evil if the dying individual paves the way towards an economic and social egalitarian Utopia. What you are calling Capitalism is State cronyism. You need to read... Or is that not in the interest of "WE"
@Windsblow Yea, State Cronyism(sic). Good luck getting around the US Chamber of Commerce to avoid the cronyism. Odd how they want the same things you do........small Gov. Wake up, men steal, lie, cheat, take advantage of , fuck, screw.......you name it. Small Weak Gov, it's what we have now.
@rickbar123 "Whatever you say Neo Con. America will have national health care. The more pain the middle class must endure the sooner we will lean towards a social democratic system. I hold no value for your life and I hope to live long enough to see Neo Con scum like you hang. It's class war, you will not win."
----------------------------
Exactly................. Social Democrat. You made my point for me. I would hang and my brothers would lie bleeding in the street in the name of equality.
@Windsblow You made your point for me..........NEO CON. If your poor or don't have a job with benifits......die in the street in the name of inequality.
"Experts" from the KOCH institute
paxtexana 5 days ago
Even if his plan could lower the prices, even if by a long shot it works to make patient care something doctors care about again ... we still have extremist politicians who are against certain types of care, when they get into power again (and they will) ... imagine what procedures they would restrict and how many people they would allow to die just because of their beliefs. At least now you can choose insurance that covers what you need.
KittenKoder 2 weeks ago
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This vid went viral on Kabul
hunteraceved49 1 month ago
Your video is popular on Antigua and Barbuda
jacquesgambl36 2 months ago
Judging by the fact that they chose to name their institute after a slaver, slum lord, ultra-reactionary snob, then I find it quite hard to take them seriously.
fistfulofknowledge 5 months ago
So the CATO institute is basically a den of psychopaths.
iowntwocats 5 months ago
@iowntwocats Why?
Seiku 4 months ago
Very useful information....! thanks for upload this video...!
TonikHealthInsurance 8 months ago
he's a planner, he's a dreamer...
When will people learn. seriously.
“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.”
and also. obama-care is heavily backed by corporations. and is just a rehash of romney-care (exact same wording in some places)
watch?v=9IJsiBHYTFg
watch?v=z-1ZfFBMf8s
100CommonCents 11 months ago
The people who work at CATO are GOP-paid welfare recipients who are looking after the interests of their funders, American corporations.
Their talking points are tested to have the maximum effect of the American population so that corporations to manufacture support for the policies the benefit corporate profit margins the most, without regard to policies that benefit the people who buy them
Its funny watching these paid shills advocate against the public option. LOL
InTheAtticLights1 1 year ago
Most people like to opine on the topic, but know precious little of the facts or the issues involved. I strongly suggest the blowhards on this post get a little education in economics, the healthcare economy and the real numbers of uninsured (and who they are) so that they can make informed comments. If you are parroting nonsense you've heard on television or read on Huffington post, you are wildly misinformed. In short, Obamacare will increase costs and reduce quality and choice. That simple.
lovenow 1 year ago
I know this sounds cliché, but "Cato Experts" has *got* to be the oxymoron of the century.
The CATO institute is a demonstrably threat to life on earth as we know it.
vanderbilt887 1 year ago
@vanderbilt887 Heavily regulated, market-choking life on earth as we know it? We agree, Cato and other sound thinkers on economic topics are a minor threat to the myopic and foolish entity that is our government. Unfortunately, not enough of a threat to stop this resource-wasting juggernaut of a health plan from further deprecating the U.S. economy.
lbrlove 1 year ago
@vanderbilt887 I think you meant " demostrable". Your claim is quite a bold one. How do you supposed they are a "demonstrable threat to life on earth"? A Libertarian think tank? Has the power to destroy the way life works on earth. Quite a claim! A bit of Hyperbole there don't you think?
Windsblow 1 year ago
The CATO Institute should be called Advocates for Restoring the Guilded Age and Sticking it to the Poor. AFRG&SP.
thefredsays 1 year ago
Type "The Patriot Act: Unconstitutional" in the youtube search and check out the Jeffersonian Democrats!
ThePrinceofRabbits 1 year ago
you asked us to belive and we did and voted. You promised small business would get help and did not. if your not hungry obahma that dont mean other people are not. Keep your word. I know you raised better than that
freshair74 1 year ago
Obamas Health Care Reformation.... Do you back this government law?? Check out my channel page and Know just why Y0UR thoughts are valued !
Wilone328 1 year ago
the republicans claim the health care plan is the worst thing to happen to this country. these are the same people who told this country there were weapons of mass destruction, go figure.
Canntone 1 year ago
I don't think it is fair to say all Republicans "hate health care" or are "working for the insurance companies." Like I have already said, there were probably a fair amount of them that were just being disagreeable and spreading misinformation, but there were at least some that had ideas of their own that they really believed in.
Side note: all the people threatening Congressmen/women need to be put in jail, its unacceptable.
wookieeassassin 1 year ago
@wookieeassassin - i agree and i'm mad as hell- but i absolutely do not want any violence.. none..
az101010 1 year ago
There may have been some Republicans that just didn't want to have the bill passed because they didn't want the Republican party (or themselves to lose), but I think that some of them really disagreed with the way they were approaching health care reform. Those that really did care likely thought that less government, more competition, more incentives, and general free market principles would have been a much better (and cheaper) idea.
wookieeassassin 1 year ago
Obamacare is barrel of a gun socialism. 16,000 new IRS agents will invade every aspect of your life. Now a government thug will control your health not a doctor. This bill is criminal and the backdoor, behind closed door way it was brutally forced on people is the biggest treasonous act in history.
jazzfusionary 1 year ago
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same as with food- if somebody can't pay the doctor- they can get help easy.. but the communists don't care who pays the doctor as long as they can take over america's freedoms..
liberals are the stupidest people on earth.. how did the slimy rats get their foot in our door anyway? 16
az101010 1 year ago
Obama, go back to Kenya!
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
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Forget the republicans!
The only country in this world that has a healthcare for profit is the US. If japan and canada and others can provide care to their people why not the US?
Why the use dont want because republicans want to rob you with health care cost!
unixjpn 1 year ago
@unixjpn slow
bassproshots 1 year ago
@bassproshots Please do tell. I would love to here this one.
Windsblow 1 year ago
$1 every second for 11.57 days is a million dollars. $1 every second for 31.7 YEARS is a billion dollars. $1 every second for 31,709 YEARS IS A TRILLION DOLLARS. OBAMA IS CRAZY. WE CAN'T AFFORD HIS STUPIDITY. Obama is broken in the head. He has never worked operating a business. I vote that if health care passes and it fails, Obama and all the politicians that voted for it should pay for the misfortune they have put on this country. This includes their children and their children's kids.
averion5496 2 years ago
Too bad you greedy fucks didn't seem to worried about WMDs. Pay back time, bitch.
BlameRepublicans 1 year ago
@BlameRepublicans: liberals are good for one thing: fish bait LMFAO
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
Obama, go away!
ConservativeRuleinUS 2 years ago
get the fuck out of my country, whore.
BlameRepublicans 1 year ago
@BlameRepublicans: you will get out of my nation, you anti-American, Godless piece of filth. You hate America, yet you stay here and enjoy our beautiful nation....you belong in North Korea or communist China, you filth
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
The point made at 1:40 is completely BOGUS! The current system does NOT allow non-standard operating procedures. If you get your doctor to prescribe you a treatment that is "not standard" you risk getting your claim rejected like 99% if it's an expensive treatment.
Everybody today gets the average treatment already, you are kidding yourself if you think that you have access to "less standard procedures" and that your insurance will cover it!
goma3 2 years ago
...
10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits. How retarded is that? Robbing social security and medicare to pay for healthcare. How stupid is that? You gotta be a moron to believe that this bill is deficit-neutral. Focus on the economy, stupid, not health care.
SuperCaliforniaGuy 2 years ago
BeastObrahma, it's because of people like you that all conservatives get lumped in with you loony religionists. While I have no love for Obama, he is not "the Antichrist", as there is no such thing.
It's a shame so many people have freed themselves from the shackles of religion only to sing the praises of the shackles of big government.
fullmetalchymist 2 years ago 2
Who the F is Cato?
I like the way bald guy number 1 says that "you still face the POSSIBILITY of falling into a government runned health plan," even if you want to keep the plan you already have. But Possibility is not the same as Probability, and the rest of the video, the baldwin twins (you see what I did there? Like it? yes no maybe?) seem to later argue that it is a certainty that you will be forced to drop the health plan you already have and love and be chained to an inferior gov. plan.
senorfish4 2 years ago
Sosialised Healthcare works in western Europe .!!
so why not in the Usa ?
My friend almost died in rural Norway, HE was badly hurt in a car crash! and he neded expert help in the hospital in oslo in few minutes! (and that was far far far away!.) So what our Sosialised healthcare system provided was A BIg Herules Airplane than the the Medical car drove in to and flyed to oslo. And he made it to a full recovery.. but spent almost a year in the hospital.. And gues what Americans; IT WAS FREE !
xsykgaffelx 2 years ago
hey all you chumps wid all da money da man be pickin yo pockets and makin you think you like it...& be makin UNION JOBS at $80K EACH to FUDGE JOBS NUMBERS on YOUR DIME...CHUMPS..betta be findin ways to HIDE YO MONEY FAST or live under an underpass in a tent if you be lucky.....fools.....
hadenufnow 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The commodification of human health is fundamentally a good thing in that allows stakeholders to extract value from policy holders in exchange for truncated service.
Economic growth proceeds human need.
ConservativeHealth 2 years ago
ConservativeHealth, they spammed you but I shall here repeat your comment which is right and well versed in analysis of how market exchange functions:
THE COMMODIFICATION OF HUMAN HEALTH IS FUNDAMENTALLY A GOOD THING IN THAT IT ALLOWS STAKEHOLDERS TO EXTRACT VALUE FROM POLICY HOLDERS IN EXCHANGE FOR TRUNCATED SERVICE.
ECONOMIC GROWTH PROCEEDS HUMAN NEED.
What he means is that economic growth is based on purposive, human action and profit is increased through helping customers.
Nintendomanwill 2 years ago
The Cato Institute is a respectable political and economic investigative institution, however, it is by no means impartial or objective. They will always oppose plans to strengthen govt or what they view as limits to freedom (which is good). I agree with many of their publications referring to South American politics; unfortunately, I notice they never admit that the free market doesn't always work. Sometimes govt is necessary.
By the way, there are also experts who support Obama.
GringodeQuito 2 years ago
who chooses their doctor anyway? I never have , happy as long as the guy is a doctor and I don't need to worry about money when i'm sick.
Choose a doctor what is that al about?
bcmalloy 2 years ago
Comment removed
ConservativeHealth 2 years ago
TibetanIdol
you're sad and alone.
TheOB212 2 years ago
NamchuWangden 2 years ago
I can't understand you.
TheOB212 2 years ago
@TheOB212 Obama's the world's worst ever criminal and his crime is Humanity's history's worst crime in the world
He can kill us all 1000 times
No one had that power ever, not Hitler or anyone
Obama is right next to heaven in power now
He's the ruler of our life and death
666 announced Obama at his election time
He's the announced Antichrist
Spread this message
Courts can give him the death-rap for 1 forged certificate 2 gaining Commander-in-Chief post 3 doing nuclear clearance fraud
NamchuWangden 2 years ago
Okay, thanks.
TheOB212 2 years ago
@TheOB212 On Obama's election-day, on the next day news-media print articles
they were not yet printed when the news came out that the lottery had drawn 666
so their work was to also print that
so that next day the newspapers printed this news
"OBAMA WINS WHITE HOUSE -- LOTTERY DRAWS 666"
666 is the Mark of the Beast of the Bible showing the Antichrist
He will force this mark - which is money - on everyone
Obama IS biggest-ever spender
BeastObrahma 2 years ago
That's some strong acid you're tripping on dude.
PD413PD 2 years ago
PD413PD
namchu here
can u come over to my favorite # 1 i'm engaging some obama-cultists there
talk to me not them there
BeastObrahma 2 years ago
Huh? You have some serious communication issues, I have no fucking clue what you're trying to mumble.
PD413PD 2 years ago
PD413PD
ok
go to my favorites # 1
i'm engaging some fanatical obama cultists there
come and blast the antichrist satan obama and get him busted and sentenced for forging his birth certificate and accessed nuclear power thus history's worst criminal
BeastObrahma 2 years ago
Look bipolar disorder is treated and you can be cured. There is no god therefore no satan you moron. You need to learn history because if you're calling Obama worst criminal ever then you don't know shit. I wonder how things like you survive in this world. Must be pity.
PD413PD 2 years ago
PD413PD
we'll send u to the lake of fire and sulfur
burn obama-demon
BeastObrahma 2 years ago
I have no clue what you're mumbling again. You fail
PD413PD 2 years ago
@TheOB212 obama'll be jailed tried and sentenced for the worst crime in the history of Humanity
NamchuWangden 2 years ago
I don't like him either.
But you're an idiot.
I'm pretty sure a couple of 666 coincidences that you've pulled off of some conspiracy website do not make him the Antichrist, I'm pretty sure satan's son wouldn't let us know in any way shape or form that he is the son of satan.
Just stop.
TheOB212 2 years ago
This MONSTROSITY, is a TOTAL Government take over of EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE.........you will see.
roguegrizzly1 2 years ago
Does anyone know the name of the theme used at the beginning?
jwill5587 2 years ago
KIll the HC 3000 pg Illegal Trojan Horse Mandate BIll devoid of any health care..
THE CBO Congressional Budget Office Repeatedly stated on every level of cost expenditures, absolute Monetary UNSUSTAINABILITY for this bill:::as an Irresponsible document where actual numbers are in stark contrast to hopeful predictions by factors of 25X or more..in many estimations especially in the uninsured demographic...
By their own Stats..!!
This is USA
Kill the bill.
Nobody wants it...
hadenufnow 2 years ago
as a European i have a hard time understanding parts of this debate.
That you discuss if this would limit your freedom is understandable, since many of you have never seen reform like this. But arguing if this would throw your country into even deeper recession.. that's ridiculous! I guess the arguments are feasible, but look at the facts! look at all the European countries with government health care.. NONE of their economys have collapsed because of government health care.. Now that's a FACT!
Crixu3112 2 years ago
@Crixu3112 They haven't collapsed yet as they have essentially been piggy backing off the innovations of the US. They get around falling over by rationing. Care delayed is care denied. Also none of them have the growth in terms of percentage and are essentially stagnant economies. That is a fact.
steve0281 2 years ago
Crixu3112 spread message obama's the antichrist
fast
OBAMA ANTICHRIST'S HUMANITY'S HISTORY'S WORST-EVER CRIMINAL
Spread the message the Antichrist's Beast's Marks 666 drawn in the Lottery at election-time in Illinois
666 was broadcast on all TVs the day the press published Obama's victory-story
Be ECHOES bear witness to Obama's Antichrist disaster
Reveal Him 1 year later
He has no certificate
Army nuclear-power clearance-fraud's High Treason: only courts will decide on death-raps
c my page
EndOfTimesApocalypse 2 years ago
No one cares.
TheOB212 2 years ago
And the reason they haven't is because they never truly started off as a free market based system. In the United States we started healthcare in the private sector, but the government has crippled it with regulation.
You don't see crippled healthcare systems being socialized in Europe, only fairly socialist systems just being more socialized. The reason it won't work here is because your just adding more weight to the breaking floorboards of our healthcare system.
It is all fairly complicated
TheOB212 2 years ago
European Govt Theory is that rights flow from the Govt to the citizens, USA believes no Gov't has the right to infringe on our personal freedoms. No, your govt's didn't collapse. but they are socialist. We are Capitalistic and, when Gov't doesn't screw it up with unrealistic mandates or overregulation, it does it better than Europe WITH personal freedoms. We don't want Socialism
naivetyenlivens 1 year ago
@Crixu3112 As a resident of Greece I have to strongly disagree with you. This country went down a long way to the bottom because of universal healthcare government regulating healthcare. Of course, no country has collapsed just because of that, but you are missing the point that public healthcare is a just of the big bricks on the wall. Most European coutries, such as Germany or France, have huge deficits because of their welfare system, so now they have to get into deep fiscal expense cuts.
redpyramid88 1 year ago
@redpyramid88 In Australia, we have government funded single health payer health care. I tell people that the only reason that it holds up is because we have such a small population (22 million).
OmegaRage 1 year ago
I find it odd that mostly everybody who supports healthcare reform in America can only find things to say about insurers and hospitals making too much, or that ABC is trying to spin the facts to lean in their favor. In contrast, everybody who has something to say about why socialist healthcare is not the answer, has something to say about the real issues the reform is meant to address - things like availability of treatment and the costs that can't be controlled, effectively wasting tax dollars.
nathancourse 2 years ago
"or that ABC is trying to spin the fact.."
1. If you think that you're watching a different debate than I am.
2. ABC didn't "spin" anything, the CATO Institute did.
ABC's coverage of this town hall meeting was balanced. The CATO Institute then took ABC's footage and deceptively spliced their own (biased AND inaccurate) commentary into it, hoping to convince a few rubes that they were actually included in ABC's presentation.
Apparently their deception worked.
TrollBuster9090 2 years ago
I find it hard to believe that the CATO institute has spun anything in their history as an academic organization.
ABC on the other hand is a shit bucket full of liberal assholes who will do anything to please the president, hence their airing of an hour long commercial for the president instead of a debate. He may have answered questions but he never had to make retorts or answer any additional challenges on his answers.
TheOB212 2 years ago
@TrollBuster9090: my money is on ABC "spinning" facts....lol....what rock have you been living under for the past decades? you liberals are pathetic
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
at 4.25 this guy says " the estimate is anywhere from 1 trillion to 2 trillion dollars" wtf????? thats like the mechanic saying sir the estimate to fix your car is anywhere from 100 to 1 million dollars... impeach this fool and his entire crew of socialist thugs before it's to late... please
skidrowjunky 2 years ago
$1-2 tril? The CBO projects that HR 3962 will reduce the deficit by $103 billion by 2019, while at the same time, insure an additional 36 million people who currently don't have insurance. That's directly from CBO's website.
jnthnlck 2 years ago
Regarding publick health care I suport president's idea for change,todays insurance coverage helps more hospitals ane nursing homes then its patients.
if you check on ...justiceforbozidar... you will see that for obove mention institutions money was more important then its patient.
stevan1934 2 years ago
Steven, you are misguided. The plan on the table does not address the true needs in reform: giving consumers more choice, increasing competition in the insurance industry, and putting consumers in more direct control of their care (and keeping their liberties).
This plan does just the opposite. Obama favors statist policies that horde control, costing jobs, stifling innovation, and lowering standards of living. Your beef is not hospitals -- it's with the Federal govt.
MonikaNGeneva 2 years ago
Why do we have in record time an H1N1 vaccination at all? It's because of greedy private sector health care companies like Novartis and Sanofi-Pasteur.
Why are so many citizens susceptible to getting H1N1 anyway because the lack of the distribution of the vaccine?
A: Government. Welcome to Obamacare -- a shining example of what you'll get.
MonikaNGeneva 2 years ago
"Why do we have a vaccine in record time...because of private sector companies like Novartis and Sanofi-Pasteur."
Yes, because of Novartis (of Switzerland) and Sanofi Pasteur (of France). Two of those thriving, innovative private sector companies which you were just claiming could never survive in a country with an evil socialized medical care system.
Come on, at least try to make your pathetic, sophomoric free enterprise rhetoric SOUND intellectually consistent.
TrollBuster9090 2 years ago
And both those companies that you just named are publicly traded companies, not private. Novartis is traded and does well in NYSE through NYSE Euronext.
I would conjecture that without being publicly traded in a free market system, Novartis would never be the international powerhouse that it is today. Note international, they don't sit in Sweden.
Can be also noted that Pasteur does operate in France, which is a mix of private and public healthcare, not a full socialist system that you imply.
TheOB212 2 years ago
And one last point.
18 of of the 21 Novartis research facilities are located outside of Sweden. As far as my research shows, the most important, productive and largest facilities are located in the U.S., and only ONE deals in corporate research, the rest are strictly medical in the broadest sense of the word.
There are 3 facilities in Sweden, but are fairly rudimentary.
I think you need to rethink your angle on the free enterprise and it's inherent want for innovation.
TheOB212 2 years ago
@TrollBuster9090: you overlook the 1000s of other crucial pharmaceuticals those corporations have created for the world. We pay more for those pharmaceuticals, so that the rest of the world gets them at an artificial rate...go pedal your nonsense elsewhere
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
It is not just health insurance that make hard life to the USA citizens but also greedy hospitals and nursing homes whitch look in to dollars then to help patients.
...justiceforbozidar... is exalpe the way people die when insurance expire.
Pleas make publick health care work for all citizens of the USA not just for rich and famous.
stevan1934 2 years ago
A public option is goes against the values and principles that have made American the global superpower and envy of the world. Support for the public option is based on lies and ignorance, and elitist attitudes that proclaim -- "gimme! gimme! gimme!"
The govt has been a barrier to competition, causing run ups an ineffiency and lack of consumer choice. The govt IS the problem. Socialized medicine will bring great harm to the economy and to all those who seek employment.
MonikaNGeneva 2 years ago
"The govt has been a barrier to competition"
As I told you before, there would be very little competition if the "evil government " hadn't brought in anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws around the turn of the century. Before that it wasn't uncommon for large monopolies to control the commerce of entire states at ridiculous prices.
The reason health insurance costs are so high is because those HMOs are EXEMPT from those anti-trust laws.
TrollBuster9090 2 years ago
There is a MASSIVE difference between laws and regulations. Laws are written and set up barriers. Regulations are enforced constantly, in real time, and only slow down processes. Of course Roosevelt did a great job busting trusts, but he never sought to regulate the shit out of them afterwards. The most he did was say "here's the line".
TheOB212 2 years ago
@TrollBuster9090: why don't you leave and go live in that communist paradise in North Korea, communist China (no, you'll not be allowed in Hong Kong..too capitalistic for your, scumbag), or wherever else you think your communism has worked so well. IDIOT
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
@ConservativeRuleinUS
Redbating, eh?
*yawn*
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago
@TrollBuster9090: yeah, you had better move on, liberal/socialist bastard
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
Is Cato still a wholly owned subsidiary of Exxon Mobil?
AtlasShruggery 2 years ago
0:22 - That is simply not true. The CBO projected less than 5% of the public will be eligible for the public option. Employers or private citizens will not be able to transition into the public option. The exchange is for those who are uninsured. Also, regarding rationing, our current health care system ALREADY rations care. They already decide not to insure pre-existing conditions, and deny coverage for certain cancers!! This cut-up video clip is ridiculous.
jnthnlck 2 years ago
regarding the statement from jnthlck, he is absolutely incorrect. If he were to read the bill he would see that the Exchange is in fact the requirement for the entire insurance industry. Every insurance company must join the Exchange and provide the care mandated by the government. This of course is followed by the fact that EVERY citizen will be required (by the bill) to be enrolled in the Exchange. Please don't comment on youtube if you don't know what you're talking about.
case12hdsybncjkd 2 years ago
Respectfully you obviously haven't read the actual bill. In HR 3962, the exchange is limited *only* to those not covered by their employer, Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare or VA. NOTHING in the bill requires any private insurance company to participate in the exchange (if that's false, show me the line item). The exchange is for those who as individuals couldn't otherwise get insurance! Your statement is simply false. Make sure you get your facts straight before throwing accusations and falsehoods.
jnthnlck 2 years ago 2
You're quite right, I mistook being a QHBP and being in the Exchange as equivalent. And though they're not, the requirements to become a QBHP without entering the Exchange seems enough of a trivial difference that they might as well be. So to rescind my statement is in order, but it's still scary to think that as an individual you are required to enter an Exchange issued plan, even if your employer can go out of the Exchange..... to a plan that is almost the same by law as the Exchange plans
case12hdsybncjkd 2 years ago
You think trivial, but a big deal for CBO's projected of 36 mil people who are not currently insured & could get insurance thru the exchange in HR3962. And again, the exchange only exists to establish a pool of uninsured thru which private companies & cover individuals at affordable rates as if they were insuring a mid-size employer or larger. And the exchange will include a competitive public option (not subsidized by taxes, paid for by its customers) to keep premiums in the exchange in check.
jnthnlck 2 years ago 2
Also, there's no requirement for individuals to *necessarily* get coverage thru the exchange. In HR3962 individuals must be covered, period. If youre not covered and decide to get insurance on your own, fine (you'll probably pay ridiculously high premiums and co-pays because you're an individual and have no leverage on your own). However an exchange will be set so you can join a pool of customers who will have leverage to keep costs down. That's the purpose of the exchange, nothing more or less.
jnthnlck 2 years ago 2
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Obama is pushing a slow brewed single-payer-system regarding HC.Obama said and I quote
" If I were designing a system from scratch,I'd set up a single payer system [but] making that transition in a rapid way , I think would be very difficult." He also said they needed the 3 branches of government to achieve this takeover, HEY! they are taking over our healthcare system!
We The People... get what we deserve if we don't fight this monstrousity, we are losing our liberties very fast. Truly.
hellotommy 2 years ago
OBAMA!!! the next JIMMY CARTER!!!!
fluff125 2 years ago
@fluff125: Obama is making Jimmy Carter look good now. LMFAO
ConservativeRuleinUS 1 year ago
Obama's healtcare program will expand the privet HMO & Insurance industry which is going broke because of bad investments in the Stock Market. We will be forced to buy and carry insurance if we want medical treatment. A medical panel will determine who will get medical treatment based of cost effectiveness. Heil hitler! Obama's program is just another Wall Street bailout. Obama is a Wall Street prostitute that will say anything to get some head. Google Video: OTC PM Report September 10, 2009
gkgreger 2 years ago
Obama said uprfront cost of 1 to 2 trillion dollars. DAMN! I did not know the country had money left--oh yea we just print it up.
joskemom 2 years ago
Question: were the CATO Institute "scholars" actually in the original ABC program, or are you guys being shifty by cutting the original program to make it look like they were? Without making the transitions between your commentary and the originbal clear??
I mean, that would be distorting the record, propaganda spin..
But CATO doesn't do that. Nah.
fitzhamilton 2 years ago
Why would scholars be part of a healthcare debate, why would anyone who actually knows anything about economics be part of the debate? That would be evening out the playing field by providing a realistic view of government run healthcare, exactly what the president and his cronies don't want.
So by your same half baked logic, fitzhamilton, the whole ABC news special is propaganda.(which it is indeed)
This was a response to said propaganda, BRO.
ZackServo2point0 2 years ago
Hahah! Yes, you nailed it. ABC would never invite a bunch of corporate shills from the CATO Institute onto their program. So they just had to tape it off the TEE VEE, splice in their own sophomoric little commentary, and then hope people would view it and think ABC actually cares enough about CATO propaganda to put their "scholars" in their documentary. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
TrollBuster9090 2 years ago
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gkgreger 2 years ago
Hey gkgreger, you are on the wrong video site. Keep searching for the "leftwing lugnuts 911 theories" video site.
joskemom 2 years ago
Our government & representatives DO NOT work for the people of the U.S. They instead work for Wall Street Financial interests & shareholders. The purpose & job of our government is to care for & protect the people. It's job is NOT to care for & protect Wall Street. Our governments job is to Govern. NOT MAKE MONEY! We MUST return our government back to the people and we must support leadership that will take us there. What do you think? Google: LaRouchePac.comm
gkgreger 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's funny... Where were all of you people when Bush lied you into two failed wars and screwed your economy? Nobody gave a flying shit, but now that there is a Black President that WILL make your lives better, y'all shit all over him. You people need to get your heads checked, you've got it all backwards. Obama is the best thing since Clinton.
Bundashit 2 years ago
It has nothing to do with him being black. Barrack Obama has way more blue blood white aristocratic connections than I or the vast majority of other white Americans. I as well as most other Conservative voters that I know from California, Idaho, and my time in the Army Infantry wanted Colin Powell to run for Pres back in the day so we could cast our votes for that 100% black American. People like you make this a racial thing, Those of us who oppose Obama do it because we oppose Socialism.
bwtanner77 2 years ago 9
Then why don't you protest your Police, fire, schools, libraries and all other social services associated with making one's life better?
Nothing like twisting the word Socialism. Not everything that ends with ISM is bad. Stop fear mongering and produce facts. 3/4 of the stuff Republicans spread are straight up lies.
Read the Bill, it's available in it's entirety, there is nothing but good things in it. It offers EVERY American protection. Why is that wrong?
Bundashit 2 years ago
In the US there is a private fire fighting company called Rural Metro. They do a great job at a lower price.
I also noticed you didn't mention the post office. Is that because UPS and fed-ex do a better job for less?
Capitalism is the best ISM. Sure there needs to be regulation and government, but the dominant force should be Capitalism. Otherwise your get entiltlementism, the other side of the capitalism coin.
Nokomisclub 2 years ago
@bwtanner77 Obama is not about socialism. Obama leans to the right. So does most of the democratic party. The dems are going after the money just like the right. If you think Obama is about socialism then you need to read more. You are poorly read. Turn off the radio.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Obama actually leans strongly to the left. You see, on the right, we stand for smaller government. And on the left, those want stronger government. Increasing welfare and regulation and enforcing it with force only increases governments power. So Obama actually does lean to the left.
E3BlSH0P 1 year ago
@E3BlSH0P Like I said- You need to read more and turn off the radio.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 slow (learn more read less)
bassproshots 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Political leanings are relative to the political evironment. I suspect you are from Europe or favor European style Government. Here in American where left and right are different, Obama does lean left...... Far left. America's true political spectrum spans from "No or very little government" (right,) to "Large Statist Collectivist Governments" (left). You should really try reading. American and European Politics are fundamentally different.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I am American. I favor a German social democratic system. No way Obama is to the left. I am to the left of Castro and I do not favor a collectivist Gov. Brother, you must turn off the Beck show.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 As I stated in my prior comment I nailed it on the head. You. I do favor European style government. Man can I call them. YOur rebuttle had 3 ignorant contradictions. I suggest you go ahead and study some basic politics philosophy ie. Idealism vs. Materialis and Collectivism vs. individualism just for starters. Then come back and claim that Social Democrats are not Collectivist. Oh yeah.. Glenn Beck? I that the best you Got? Another borish American psuedo-intellectual
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow How is the German system Collectivist ??? Mind your reply.......Germany's system was put in place by the US Army's General Staff post WW2.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I will let you go ahead and figure that out on your own. I am not going to let you get off that easy. This isn't the American public school system. Go study The ideals of Locke, Voltaire, Hume, Engles, and Marx etc..... If you don't understand how Democratic Socialism is collectivism you really need to do some reading and research. Both Socialism and Democracy are both collectives. Thats why the American framers didn't create a Democracy.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow German Corporations are free to make a profit, as much as they can, are they not ??? German CEOs are doing very well and so are the Boards. Folks like you just got to fuck the working man out of the crumbs that make him happy. That's right, the framers did not want a Democracy, the Masses did and still do. Many of the framers changed their minds after seeing what their first work was producing. Madison and Jefferson were sickened by what they saw as corporate take over.
rickbar123 1 year ago
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@rickbar123 "Madison and Jefferson were sickened by what they saw as corporate take over."
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First, give the proof and the definition of "Corporation" and "take over" in the context of Madison and Jefferson. Second, Give me solid tangible evidence that they were "sickened" about it happening at that time. Don't give me quotes. Give me the actual tangible references that I can read in entirety and context
Windsblow 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I find it really ironic, if not totally moronic, to use Jefferson and Madison, both staunch Anti-Federalist, to back your position. They were so apposed to central powers and centrally planned economics that they were just shy of Anarchy, They understood the power of a Central Government would produce exactly what you complain about ie.... Corporate oligarchies. What you seem confused about is Jeffersons position on "Corporate Personhood".
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow Are you a half wit grad of Beck U ??? You must be Beck's star student. Jeff and Madison both did not care for the direction the so called "Better Men" were taking the country. Jeff gave a speech a few hours before his death that warned of early corporate rule (pre cap era). What they did not care for was the way "Better Men" bent Governments ear to make richer the few. Beck fills you with a narrow view of history.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I agree with most of this statement. Again with the BEck thing huh? Is that the way you skirt the challenged to your point earlier? Pre Cap ere?There was no such thing. You once again fail to understand the Free Market. Your Capitalism is Corporatism which is the antithesis to free market. True Capitalism is Voluntaryism and Smith's Free Market. The Term "Capitalism" is a term coined my Marx himself and was a pejorative term intended to smear and redefine the Free Markets.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow In Jeffs day there was no such thing as capitalism. Pre Cap. "If two business men are standing on a corner talking together you can be sure they are trying to figure a way to rob the public." - Adam Smith.
Case closed.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 So do mean to tell me that Adam Smith was anti Free MArkets?? Very interesting.... You must be a contortionist getting yourself all twisted up like that. That clever attempt of "out of context" quoting shows you intentional neglect of the facts. That quote dealt with his [Smith] personal conflict of theoretic monopolies, not the Free markets it's self. Just most ideologues like your self you cherry pick the facts and history. There is nothing more idiotic.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I never said he was anti free market. Your position is weak, you resort to low brow retoric in an effort to lift your argument. Adam Smith was aware of the invisible hand and knew the problem free markets would never escape from. Retire your argument, you have lost.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I love how you ignore all my points. I clarified what I defined as Capitalism and still you only address State Corporatism. You are having a different conversation than me in order to continue with your collectivist talking points. Do you really mean to tell me there wasn't a free market system in those days? And if thats were true, it has no bearing on whether or not laissez faire free market capitalism is a superior economic theory compared to the Marxist economic materialism.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I do not seek to pit failed marxist ideas against failed capitalistic ideas against a failed corporate state. You need to do that so that your argument will carry some assay of weight. A true free market has been tried, it has failed many times. Retire, you lack the skill needed here. If you chose to go on, I will expose your tired, failed, despirate, lost position with no mercy.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Please........ I ask for no mercy. So..... do you imply I not compare the historical outcomes of economic systems? How do you suggest I formulate an opinion? Should I seek councel from a mystic or just believe hard enough to make it true. You are a Marxist.... There a degrees to all things. You might not be a Soviet, nor a titoist but to some degree you [social democrat] do derive your political foundation from Marxist teleological theory. Or do you deny that.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I deny that. I favor the German system. The German system has the best of many systems. It is best for the masses. I warn you, your argument is lame..
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 You deny that????? must reject the concept of social ownership, social justice, social solidarity and labor solidarity..... these concepts are the apitome of collectivism and keystones of the social democrat party. Whether or not you aknowledge thes are Marxist in nature is of no matter. They are still COLLECTIVE. I warn you....? I call your bluff.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I will never reject the concept of free men having the right to stand together. It is the American way. What planet do you reside sir ???
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Once again you don't have the capacity to articulate and coherent argument. Thats why you have resorted to platitudes. I accept your humble bowing out of this debate.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow Try again.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Windsblow Yea right !!! You got your ass beat on that Pinochet stuff. Hard to argue history like that. Die like a man.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I wasn't real going to even validate this point by responding....... but, if a man kicks in my front door and kills my wife and I robbing me of life liberty and my property and rationalizing this crime through need. Then if he happened to be a raving, rabbed socialist and me being a capitalist then, by your logic, his socialism won and capitalism failed. Very simplistic argument and logically inept concept i would say.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow You work yourself into a hole, I have warned you.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 You sir, are an idiot........ Put up or shut up!
I warned you? Your collectivist revolutionary mob doesn't have the power to inforce warnings. What planet do you live on?
Windsblow 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Please list the fail Free Market States that have failed and your theory as to why they failed. Try to stay on topic..... Please! Put some meat on your arguments for once. Oh yeah what about that political spectrum thing we were supposed to talk about?
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow Chile. At the point of a gun the Free Market failed. In the end , the Chicago boys fled the country. Pinochet himself wanted them dead. Russia. Puntin was put into office to end the shocks. Now the two biggest free market jackasses sit in jail. Siapan. Is a toilet, the free market is gone..........along with everything else. Most of Mexico, Juarze is the worst. Drug dealers belive in the free market and now they rule Mexico. Need I go on ?
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Windsblow South America sent Bush home with nothing. Bush wanted to expand free market trade with Chavez, Evo, Kirchner and Lula, they all laughed at him, he ened the trip early. Free market policy is rejected around the world.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Is this your example that's going to crush my argument under it's sheer weight of truth?? GAFTA and NAFTA are the antithesis of free markets. They are centrally planned economic policy designed to empower the State and Corporations in an attempt to steal the power from the individual. The market didn't produce GAFTA. The uneducated and power hungry Statist produced GAFTA. Next!
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow GAFTA and NAFTA are sold to the stupid under the banner of free trade. You just don't get human nature. People steal, corporations bend the rules, a true free market can never exist.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Windsblow Lets end it. Would you say a state capitalist system is more Marx than say a capitalist system ??
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I guess we would have to first define what the definition of State or state and Capitalism or capitalism, but the short answer would be State Capitalism has more in common with Mussolini's Corporatism. On the other hand State Capitalism has has more in common, in principle, with Marxist philosophy than (c)apitalism (free markets). Philosophy(broad) and strict economic theory (narrow) are hard to compare.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@rickbar123 To get more clear idea ( to a large degree) of my view of capitalism read Ayn Rands America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business and What is Capitalism?
Windsblow 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I think we are off topic anyways......... I am still waiting for you to tell me how Obama isn't left of the American political spectrum. This time why don't you use Jefferson and Madison to prove your position. That would be quite entertaining.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow How could Obama be to the Left ??? He is another Clinton. Two wars continue, Gitmo is still open, Refused to address NAFTA, a lame ass stim package, tarp funds paid back early, bonous for bankers continue, a health care bill that only insurance CEOs could love ........ You think he is on the left ??? You don't know shit about the left.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Windsblow Collectivism may be a four letter word to you, an evil spook in the night. Don't waste your time, the masses today have no idea what it even is. You use words like that to boost a weak postion. They are lost on the Masses today, and do not scare me. Workers wanting health care and a good wage is not the end of the world.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Just because the masses have been cleansed of historical knowledge, and perspective doesn't have a bearing on the argument at hand.
"Collectivism may be a four letter word to you, an evil spook in the night. "
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60 million lives sacrificed in the name of "collectivism" is hardly a spook in the night! You either hold no value for human life or your lacking in the faculties to deal with concepts such as these.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow Whatever you say Neo Con. America will have national health care. The more pain the middle class must endure the sooner we will lean towards a social democratic system. I hold no value for your life and I hope to live long enough to see Neo Con scum like you hang. It's class war, you will not win.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Neo-Con??? I love the simplemindedness you possess, it is quite charming. I think Neo-Con are more dangerous than the intellectually lazy left here in America. I have nothing but distain for such a corrupt lot of Pseudo-Republicans. You should know who you are talking to before you start labeling people. BECk, NeoCon what else do you have. I am a Minarchist. I am sure you will have to wiki that.... Go ahead.... Wiki it up Plato.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow I have no intrest in what you are or call yourself. I am for the worker, the masses and the poor. Capitalism is on it's death bed, thanks to the Wall Streeters and the CEOs. Those that stand together will end corporate rule. Deal with it.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Windsblow Minarchist= Dumb ass that wants a small Gov so the "Better Men" can be free to jack the taxpayer of whatever they can. Maxarchist = A person that understands greed is a bad thing and only a big strong Gov of and by the people can protect the people from corporate rule and greed. Go back to the Beck show, big talker.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Why to go.... Way to unzip that veil of Collective Altruism. the difference between me and you is I wish you a long life and I believe you have just as much value as me, or any other human for that matter. The end justifies the means for the Collectivist/Statist. Means is is that of evil if the dying individual paves the way towards an economic and social egalitarian Utopia. What you are calling Capitalism is State cronyism. You need to read... Or is that not in the interest of "WE"
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow Yea, State Cronyism(sic). Good luck getting around the US Chamber of Commerce to avoid the cronyism. Odd how they want the same things you do........small Gov. Wake up, men steal, lie, cheat, take advantage of , fuck, screw.......you name it. Small Weak Gov, it's what we have now.
rickbar123 1 year ago
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@rickbar123 "Whatever you say Neo Con. America will have national health care. The more pain the middle class must endure the sooner we will lean towards a social democratic system. I hold no value for your life and I hope to live long enough to see Neo Con scum like you hang. It's class war, you will not win."
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Exactly................. Social Democrat. You made my point for me. I would hang and my brothers would lie bleeding in the street in the name of equality.
Windsblow 1 year ago
@Windsblow You made your point for me..........NEO CON. If your poor or don't have a job with benifits......die in the street in the name of inequality.
rickbar123 1 year ago
Stupid Canadian
jjrglobal 2 years ago