Luthier Tips du Jour - Bolt on Mortise and Tenon Neck Joint

[alianstuff]

Your skill and knowledge is so admirable and thanks for showing us this, i just wanted to see how guitars are made and enjoyed watching it.

[OBrienGuitars]

@alianstuff Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed the video. Happy Building!

[sirgreggins8824]

So i got ahead of myself> Rookie mistake= i don't have an access hole to the truss rod and i have the body glued up. any suggestions on how to do that with the body closed?

[OBrienGuitars]

@sirgreggins8824 oops!! I guess that could happen to anyone. Just do the best you can by going through the soundhole. Good luck.

[sirgreggins8824]

When you mark the angle at the 14th fret you say "notice how it is not a 90 degree angle." Does that mean that when you route the tenon the heel should sit on the guitar matching that slight angle slight angle or should that be 90 degrees?

[OBrienGuitars]

@sirgreggins8824 Not sure I understand your question. The shoulders of the tenon are not at 90 degrees.

[tyfude]

Hi Robert. Considering neck angle, (1:40) you align the bevel so that the plain of the neck leaves a small gap at the top of the sound hole. It has been my understanding that the neck and soundboard angle should equal180 degrees. It would seem, if I leave this gap, then there would be a slight bow in the finger board as it transitions from the neck to the sound board rather than being flat. If you have the time, any clarification would be excellent! I have truly enjoyed your tutorials. Thanks!

[OBrienGuitars]

@tyfude The angle of the neck is whatever it needs to be to get the correct gap at the bridge/saddle location. This does cause a slight drop off of the fretboard extension as it transitions from the neck plane to the soundboard. This is why I level my fretboards after they are attached to the neck and soundboard.

[tyfude]

@OBrienGuitars Thanks for your time and quick response! This helps me understand the process. I have gleaned much from your instruction. I am currently on this step of my first build. Your clarity and humor have helped me persevere! To clarify, I have one of the pre-slotted and radius fingerboards from LMI. I'll glue it with the drop off at the the transition, then level it with a sanding stick after the neck is set and glued as you mentioned (without defeating the radius)? Thanks for your help.

[OBrienGuitars]

@tyfude Thanks for the compliments. When leveling the fretboard I let the fretboard extension taper off from the neck to body joint about a 64th to a 32nd. BTW, I have a google chat group where we discuss things like this. let me know if you want access.

[ROMELUTH]

Olá, sou Brasileiro e luthier apreciei muito seu video gostaria de ter a oportunidade de ter um curso com voce.

Abraços.

[OBrienGuitars]

@ROMELUTH Obrigado. Acabei de lançar um curso "online" (via internet) de construção do violão clásico. Vai até meu site para mais informações. Pretendo lançar também um curso via internet para violão de aço mas vai demorar. Também faço aulas particulares na minha oficina em Colorado.

Abraços!

[OBrienGuitars]

Shave a bit off the bottom of the tenon. The shoulders of the tenon determine the neck angle not the mortise.

[jonnburton]

@OBrienGuitars OK, thanks.

[jonnburton]

Hi Robbie,

I was just wondering how the neck joint accomodates the tenon, given that it's angled away slightly. Do you make the mortise slightly oversized (or do you rout that angle into the mortise) or do you shave a bit off the bottom of the tenon?

[lovedarina]

Hi Robert

If you can make video about, how you make dovetail joint.

[johncharnock]

Hi Robbie - what kind of router attachment do you have to cut the tenon? Its not a router bit with a bearing is it ?

[OBrienGuitars]

@johncharnock You are correct. However, cutting in one pass is dangerous and not necessary. I use a guide bushing in the router. This eliminates the need for a bearing on the actual bit.

[OBrienGuitars]

@johncharnock I use a 1/2 inch straight cut bit with a 17/32 I.D. guide bushing.

[johncharnock]

HI Robbie

I am struggling to see how the the guide bearing and the router bit works with your jig. Your set up allows you to drop the bit in increments when you cut the mortise - using the bits with a bearing dictates that you need to make the cut in one pass is that correct?

[julioyaldonza]

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YOU WILL SEE MY MORTISE AND TENON ATTEMPT...ENJOY IT !!!

THANKS

[johncharnock]

Hi Rob

Do you have any details of your spreaders that you use to hold the sides in the mold. I have some SS tube that I want to convert into spreaders and bin the turnbuckles.

[OBrienGuitars]

@johncharnock I use 1/2 inch aluminum tubing and 3/8 inch threaded rod. Use a wingnut and a washer to adjust the spreader. All items are available at your local lutherie supply warehouse.

[garciaorganization]

It looked like it would make any later adjustments easier. Other than tradition do you favor one over the other?

[OBrienGuitars]

@garciaorganization I prefer the bolt on mortise and tenon cause it is easier, no compound angles like a dovetail.

[garciaorganization]

Great...thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try. Keep up the wonderful videos. I'm now encouraged to try my first build this summer. Al

[OBrienGuitars]

@garciaorganization good luck with the build. I have a google group you might find useful. Let me know if you want access.

[garciaorganization]

Great video. Could this joint be used on a flamenco/nylon crossover instead of the standard classical joint? Any drawback or changes needed for that?

[OBrienGuitars]

@garciaorganization Yes it could, but why not just use the traditional Spanish heel?

[HRRLutherie]

How important is it to angle the neck?

[OBrienGuitars]

very important if you want the action to be right.

[wlwak]

And the moral of the story is.....if you want a guitar, buy it.

[OBrienGuitars]

For some that probably is the best option. Others may find great satisfaction in making their own guitar.

[grilguy]

@OBrienGuitars amen to that. I must say though that it seems a bit odd to use that technic for an acoustic.

[HRRLutherie]

Can you post a video on dovetails?

[bluestudio67]

This is why I'm starting off with a serviced kit! hehe Sergei Dejonge this fall.... there is where I'll learn the finer points.

[Xar0mir]

Why always bolt-on? :/ I know, it's supposed to be easier,

and the neck can replaced if it should get damaged, but i'm just not a fan :/

[OBrienGuitars]

so use a different type of joint.

[crokey64]

Robbie - thanks!!

Fantastic tutorial. I've been struggling with just how to ensure the neck angle is right - you explain it very clearly.

[OBrienGuitars]

I prefer doing it afterwards. With my set up I am able to cut the M&T and set the neck angle in one step.

[johncharnock]

Hi - Is there any reason you don't cut the mortise in the block before you assemble the body as in the Cumpiano method ?

[MotherFudger27]

did anyone else here the james bond theme song stating at 8:25?

[walela1952]

? How do you replace a neck block!

[OBrienGuitars]

I have never had to do this repair.

[guild1978]

Nice one robbie but any advice on making up the jigs?

[OBrienGuitars]

I have no plans for making this jig. I made mine by trial and error years ago and have fine tuned it over the years.

[SamBrown1900]

Cant thank you enough for putting up these vids!!