Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. 'The' Way, not 'a' way. Fear of God is a good thing, as those who have it will think twice about sinning instead of rushing headlong in. Read John 14:6
@Gaybykersonacid The reason, I believe, no good answer (cure) for cancers has been found, is that cancer is man-made. Just like HIV and AIDs. Why sell the cure, when you can keep the people alive for as long as it takes to rob them of every penny they have?
Yes I need real proof of the existence of any god. Without that proof all you are left with is personal revelations from individuals who may have ulterior motives for what they say. If something as important as my "eternal soul" was at stake I would expect a loving god to make his presence so abundantly clear that no one could ever raise even a spectre of doubt. If it failed to do so it would be the same as condemning me to "Hell"
To WaltonSauce: Thank-you for your tip. Yes, hearts do pump blood through the human body. We can live in our earthly flesh bodies that way. Proof of what I am saying on here is needed for you to believe in a loving God and his Son, Jesus Christ? John 3:16-For God so loved the world that he gave his only son Jesus Christ that no one should perish but have everlasting life. Amen. My proof comes through the work of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) here on earth. You need to meet Jesus to see proof?
@idahopaula So people thousands of years ago were given proof and evidence in the form of the dead rising, seas parting, rivers turning to blood and so on, but today we get nothing at all? He doesn't care if he does exist, right?
The truth is that none of those actually happened. Remember, the people reporting those "miracles" didn't know where rain or babies came from. Think about it. They just explained things in any way they could. And it wasn't with science. LOL
@gvman3670: You will get it all in the future. God's JUDGMENTS ARE COMING to this planet. They are "supernatural events" by God & they are judgments agaisnt all sinners that reject God & Jesus Christ during the 7 year reign of the Antichrist here on earth. See The Book of Revelation (last book of the bible).These events are recorded from the past in Genesis (first book of the bible) by Moses. They did happen as told by the Prophets of the Old Testament & Apostles of the New Testament.
@idahopaula OK, let me get this out there so you understand it. I've probably read your Bible far more than you have. And I spent over 40 years in a Fundamentalist family so far. AND I've read many other ancient texts, including the books that were removed from your Bible. Don't
Your threats of Judgement and Hell are vapid and empty. They mean nothing. If it worked on you it proves you're weak. And gullible. Don't accept threats, only accept evidence and truth.
To devante 11: Hi. I am writing on here to explain to all of you that God DOES SPEAK through the heart and mind of people. He also send his angels as messengers to earth to minister to people. They can take human form if necessary. Be careful who you entertain. It may be an angel of God Almighty. God works through His Spirit-the Holy Spirit. He speaks to our conscience mind and to the inner most parts of the human heart. As God designed us to be in a relationship with him always. God Bless You.
To Carbide195: Yes, my Dear One. I am using God's word-the Holy Bible because it was written by God. He spoke directly to the Prophets & Apostles in the bible. Of the Old and New Testaments God spoke to these men to scribe the bible in Greek first, then Hebrew. The King James version was translated in the 1600's as the order came from the King of England at that time in history-King James. The bible is God's word for all people on earth and it contains "supernatural" power from the Holy Spirit.
@idahopaula If there was an omniscient god it wouldn't use TEXTS, which are written in dying languages and easily mistranslated to further ones' agendas. We know for a FACT that most of the books in your Bible are mistranslated, often purposely. Heck, just the word "god" is mistranslated. 51 books were omitted or radically changed, too. What does that do for the validity of your book?
The fact is that barely educated individuals wrote it. FACT.
@gvman3670: Yes, the written word was given to the prohphets & apostles to record. They had oral tradition of telling about biblical events before the greeks recorded the bible, then it was recorded into hebrew-the King James version was recorded into english in 1606 by order of King James. And, the bible was needed per instructions from God through the Holy Spirit to penn the words of the Holy Bible. Man was in "sin"-bible was needed. The bible is "divinely inspired" by God for man.
@idahopaula No, you better do some homework in Biblical Scholarship. Seriously. We have NO original texts, we KNOW that several books are forgeries, we KNOW that the content of many books is forged and we KNOW the Nicean Council omitted or changed everything that didn't jive with their teachings at the time. And we KNOW that the Bible's creation myth is a monotheisted version of older Mesopotamian tales.
How is that divinely inspired in any way? Please.....fill me in.
@gvman3670: You are looking at the Holy Bible through man's eyes-not God's eyes. It was God that literally told these prophets & apostles to write down what he said from the very beginning. Even the first 5 books of the bible was written by Moses. Moses went up Mt. Sinai and God was there. God wrote on stone tablets the Ten Commandments right in front of Moses' eyes. The Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) was the "divine inspiration." John wrote Revelation through visions by God in Patmos.
@idahopaula Are you freakin' kiddin' me? You better be joking. No thinking, reasonable, non-brainwashed human could EVER give a BS answer like that and not feel dirty, dishonest and downright stupid.
Moses wrote nothing and never existed. Fact. And what kind of drugs does one need to see a burning bush or to write with the finger of god?
And nobody knows who wrote the book of Revelations of Jesus Christ. Sorry. It's a known fact. We haven't a single original manuscript. None.
@gvman3670: Okay. I am laughing because you are not a christian, obviously. And, I am speaking about biblical and historical records regarding God and Jesus. If you believed in God and knew Jesus through prayer and having "faith" in Jesus you would understand my comments. So, to debate these things is of no use. I believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit-you do not. So, my point is, I am a christian and calling me names just shows me how biggoted you are towards christians.
@idahopaula And you don't care whether or not what you believe is true apparently. The funny thing is that your Bible is why I don't believe. You should actually read it. ALL of it. Then look at the rest of the world and all the evidence to the contrary. If you don't you're just being dishonest, and you're only lying to yourself to keep a comfy delusion.
@gvman3670: No, you are wrong. I have read the bible backwards and forwards since childhood. I was brought up in the church. Not dishonest Dear One. I do look at the world and it is falling apart! It is going to get worse too! Many judgments are coming from God Almighty. Please read these books in the bible: Daniel, Ezekiel, The Book of Revelation, Matthew. Many prophecies are contained in these books as God spoke to the writers to put these words down for the entire world to read.
@SeedsOfHatred: Even your name on here implies the "evil" inside of your mind. I do not consider your words to be of any value to me. Lucifer has you. Take Care.
@SeedsOfHatred: Your name here is very relevant as it shows what you are thinking?? The name is something you came up with & it is of the "darkness; which implies evil." I am telling you the truth according to the scriptures of God's word-the Holy Bible-King James Version. It is the word of God that I tell you-these things will come to pass if you reject Jesus Christ and reject future prophecy as God expressed in the bible. The devil has already been defeated by Jesus Christ. Amen
@idahopaula My name is a reflection of my ill-feelings toward a cruel and unjust world. I dislike people because they're not nearly as caring and loving toward others as I believe they should be. Instead, they choose bigotry and heartless malice. Thus, I dislike them for it.
@gvman3670 Relax. I know it's disturbing the things that some people choose to believe in, but you get used to it after a while. If people want to believe in fairy tales, let them believe in fairy tales. I'd say Moses was simply smoking some killer cush dipped in LSD with a side of shrooms. I mean, what else was there to do out in the hot ass desert, or wherever all this was supposed to have taken place? :-)
To Uberlaser: Yes, my Dear One. God certainly did create all things on earth. He created you and me and all human beings. Animals, too. God is omnipresent. He is everywhere. My proof? Well, if you are an atheist and do not believe there is a GOD or CREATOR you will not believe what I tell you either. For God is the "substance of ALL LIFE and he is the ALPHA and OMEGA, the BEGINNING and the END of all things." A person will NEVER believe there is a God in heaven unless they find Jesus first. Amen
To ErgoProxy12345: Hello. God Bless You. Thank-you for calling me a "troll" as it clearly shows your ignorance. You misspelled 5 words in your comments. That is ok because you were busy trying to explain the "scientific method" to me. Dear One, I am a hospice nurse by profession. I learned through the years what a "hypothesis" is and what is means. But, I thank-you for your clarification of this process. God created ALL THINGS. It is based upon complex DNA & ribonucleic molecules-too complex.
@srspower: Yes, I do know. Because I believe and have faith in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I have seen miracles and healings. These were by "supernatural" as God healed these individuals. Amen.
Dear shieldsff: Hello. God Bless You. Sorry, I did not make any mistake other than a spelling error which we all do Dear One. You are speaking about the "good works" based on our faith in Jesus Christ for he said, "works without faith is dead". A direct quote from Jesus. My conscience is just fine. I believe in the work of the Holy Spirit with all people here on earth . As the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) is the one that tugs at our heart & mind concerning God and Jesus Christ. So, I will pray.
sorry, you are mistake. ;Christians certainly have a concept of what constitutes truth, morality & the social good-just as you. These beliefs are expressed in all manner of good actions including feeding the hungry, aiding the poor, caring for widows and orphans, missions, opposing evil wars, social oppressions, and building hospitals and schools among many other endeavors. There is real good & evil & maybe it's your conscience bothered by certain behaviors. God rules our eternal destinies
To hanyuo: This is my response: Hello Dear One. Please, may I tell you how to spell "atheists", not "atheits". Okay. You have your idea about the evolution of mankind based on Darwinism; however, it has been proven directly in the last several years that most scientists now believe there is a "Creator" for all life on this planet. Science has redinfined their "Scientific Method" to say life is so complex when they examine the DNA from fossils, etc they are doubting evolution.
@FitnessMinded Do you have any links to the articles by these scientists? I would love to read them. Oh and by the way, if you can't call evolution by it's proper name then I don't have to call creationism by it's proper name. I can call creationism whatever I want, and I choose to call creationism," Lying, stupid, insane, superstitious, delusional, assholism". Now where is your evidence that supports Lying, stupid, insane, superstitious, delusional, assholism over (facepalm) ...darwanism?
@idahopaula I'm sorry but: are you a troll? if you are, you need to clarify it. If your not, then you don't know what the scientific method is because it CANNOT be made to say anything. the metheod is that: a METHOD. it gives bases on how to validate or disprove a postulated hypothesis. the hypothesis can be any claim wether it is about a god or about the best way to wipe one's ass but its the testing part which has yet to prove any creator of the universe. evedences must be followed not led
To ZZzzzzzWhat: This is my response: Yes. I have read the bible in it's entirety. I know the bible backwards and forward. I am not being a hypocrite here. I was raised in the church and have a very good understanding of scripture. I am led by the Holy Spirit and I pray earnestly to understand all scripture. Thank-you for your comments on here. I will take note of it. I know what Jesus expects of us and I study the bible everyday. Thank-you again and God Bless You for your comments. Amen.
To silverkeen07: Here is my response to you: Dear One, I do not do "research" as you humanists and New Agers do this on a regular basis. I read the Word of the Living God in the Holy Bible as this is the "roadmap" for life on this earth and into eternity with Jesus Christ up in heaven. Amen. May God restore your thinking and may the Holy Spirit open your heart, your mind, your eyes, and ears to the TRUTH OF GOD. Hallelujah to the Lamb that was slain on the cross at Calvary for all mankind. Amen
@idahopaula you speak so passionately about the "Living god, Jesus" but have you ever read the-whole- bible? The research also applies to bible studies did you know that? it's so typical of you bible belt christians to preach about the 'word of god' without ever read the whole bible, that is hypocritical.
And btw if you really wanted silverkeen07 to see your response you would put the '@' before his nickname.
My response to the show: I am a born again christian in Jesus Christ, Jeshua. I believe God or Yahweh, Jeshua, and the work of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit). As atheists think NOT OF GOD or He even exsisted from the beginning of time I realize that atheists are never going to be "receptive" to Jesus, to God our Creator, and to the Holy Spirit unless there is some divine intervention by the
hand of God or Yahweh. Without this, atheists are driven by postmodernism
We are due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you are not ready spiritually, you'll suffer. This is happening now, be ready. God Bless.
something else i realized from the vid. theres really no point in believing just to believe so you can go to heaven 'just in case', its pointless. because there's so much more shit you gotta do to get into heaven, and so much forgiveness and whatever else you gotta do, and then u better be sure u picked the right religion... point is, theres no point in believing because even if heaven was real, few ppl can make it there...
Anyone who thinks religion in general or indiividual religious belief is harmless doesn't know the first thing about history. For many thousands of years one religious sect has been slaughtering people of another religious sect, for no reason other than a difference of opinion, even within their own religions! For example; Catholics vs. Protestants in Ireland and elsewhere. Religion = senseless murder in mass numbers. We'd be SO much better off without it!!!
@1955RodHot Makes you wonder if we would have found another reason to kill ourselves without religion. or, let me rephrase the thought:
do you think, perhaps, they have always used religion to throw people into war for other reasons not pertaining to religioin (such as wanting land, resources, freedom from something) but told their soldiers about what the other ppl believe to motivate them? just a thought
@LOGIC42369 Are you suggesting that no human was ever killed due to religious conflict? Or just fewer than it seems on the surface? If the latter, so what? You can't pretend that without religion the history of human conflict would have been just the same or similar enough that religion doesn't matter. It permeates every facet of our society and influences virtually all of our decisions in some fashion. You can't just dismiss it as of no importance to our psychology or history.
@1955RodHot i didn't dismiss it as of no importance at all, i was just wondering if without the religioin in the first place, would leaders have found a different way to gain control and make ppl kill others. granted, i can't think of a better idea to make ppl go to war than relgion, but it was only a thought.
and i never said no human was ever killed due to relgious conflict, i would have had to be born yesterday in a old ppls church to believe that haha, MOST wars (if not all) were religious
you have no idea what freedom feels like untill youve freed yourself from religion it ruins peoples lives while making them believe its helping there lives lo live without fear is true freedom and they will never know how that feels
Atheists have a significant advantage over theists: they can decide for themselves what their purpose in life is going to be, and then pursue and attain that purpose. They can literally answer for themselves, "Why am I here?" Christians have three purposes in life: 1) populate the religion; 2) believe that Jesus came to save them, and for some of them, to force that opinion onto others; and 3) die and go to Heaven. They have no other purpose in life.
@FluffyFeralMarmot I think that they're just saying that having beliefs for good reasons is better than having beliefs because they feel good. The caller is arguing that it's possible to have a belief that doesn't affect behavior, so what is the harm in just having it?... And the point that the host are making is that it's demonstrably better to have a mindset that tries its best to reflect reality, and holding a belief that only makes you feel good contradicts that.
@Periph1989 Maybe in some circumstances it's "demonstrably" better to operate on a model that reflects reality as closely as possible -- immediate problem solving, for example. In a lot of cases, though, it's probably irrelevant or even counter-productive. Most of what we focus our time on -- competition for social standing, mate acquisition, distraction/entertainment -- requires a certain level of self deception to work.
@FluffyFeralMarmot I don't think those examples are the same as religious beliefs, though... and I don't think you need to give up a model that reflects reality as closely as possible in order to achieve them... and I don't think they're "telling people it's bad to think certain things". (I don't remember them saying that).
Can you demonstrate how in a lot of cases being honest with yourself is counter-productive, where a factual assessment of the situation will actually harm you in the long run, or even short run?
As someone that has acquired high social standing, a mate, etc. I can tell you that self-deception was NEVER responsible for a positive step forward for me. I have no use for views that are out of touch with reality. They have never helped me.
@Damarcast Your post is a fairly good illustration of my point. You concoct a story about me that allows you to think less of me (a kid living in mom's basement) and you can dismiss me out of hand without provoking dissonance. If you entertain the thought that I'm actually a father with an advanced degree, a six-figure income, and a purple heart, your position requires more work to justify.
By which criteria do you assign yourself "high" social standing? Think about which are illusions.
How did it illustrate it? I destroyed it. You still have provided no evidence that truth can harm you. You are avoiding because you know you've overstepped what you can prove and entered the realm of batshit crazy. I didn't dismiss you out of hand. I asked you to prove.
-Advanced degree but not naming it, taking the time to google one up, are we?
-Everyone on the net has a six-figure income.
-Purple heart would mean you're an idiot that got wounded.
@Damarcast The social game requires deception, including of ourselves. For example, you're just trolling me, which is fine, but in playing that role you need to try to get a rise out of me in whatever way you can. You say things to demean me, however I'd be really surprised if you actually believed what you're saying, that if you came to my support group that you could tell the guy with no hands and the guy with traumatic brain injury that they're just idiots.
This isn't the social game. This is the comment box of a youtube upload. I may be coming off harsher than I normally would, but I am not trolling you. I am not making things up to get a rise out of you. I don't care enough about you to go through that effort, and I hope you feel the same about me.
As for what I assume are vets you are referencing, I would say they're idiots on both accounts. First for believing in God, and second for joining the military.
@Damarcast First of all, I'm a vet. I served for more than 6 years in the US Army as a 19D (Cavalry Scouts). I served in several combat tours. I'm also an atheist. I grew up a christian, then I went to college and slowly abandoned my beliefs because I couldn't find any good rational reason to hold them. The "no atheist in the foxhole" is bullshit because I knew a lot of them in the army. In fact, war casualties were my strongest evidences against the usefulness of prayer.
@HoLOLcaust Trust me, I know that. You know, I'm still waiting for one of those faith healers, regardless oft he religion, to cure an amputee or severe brain damage.
@petion2010 I agree. I'm a former Marine.. I use to tell people when they were in combat.. go ahead an drop your gear and pray that god will protect you. I'll use my wepaon and flak jacket to protect me.
@oknatora The chaplains always found a nice spin on everything though. I remember in 2007, in Camp Taji, one LMTV was hit with an IED that killed 14 infantry men. At their memorial service, the lead chaplain had the audacity to invoke god to accept them in Paradise, and said that they were in a better place. Mind boggling
@petion2010 I agree, the Chaplains here though they talk about thier god in most ceremonies... when they talk indivually they are smart enough to say your god or w/e you believe in.
A true believer wouldn't bother with ducking, he'd just walk over to then enemy and pull the guns out of their hands...atheists are in foxholes because they know that the cover can stop a bullet, not their imaginary best pal.
@petion2010 The only true theists were the scots that ran into battle wearing only paint, the african tribesmen who thought magic water would stop bullets etc etc.
The christians can wear their crosses but if they believed that crap then they would walk through an iraqi battlefield wearing only a cross "knowing that it would protect them"
@dffykvn Also, Moses didn't start killing in the name of God until he was in charge of a country. They go easier on killing people once you're in charge of a country.
Sure, he killed people before that, but then it wasn't God, he was just on a short fuse.
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
@BrightLight57 Thomas, 59:35 «For thou shall encounter in thy path those that hold the words of ancient texts to be the truths of this this world, and thou shall see them consider thou with the condescension and contempt of pre-socratian minds. But heed not the words of compulsive quoters of Palestinian bronze age goat-herders, for they are but background noise in the music of reality.»
@PrincepsNemesis Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.
I for one don't want to have God hover over me judging everything that I do. But there are reasons why people can't shake the fact that God exist. We just don't know who and how he works in our limited knowledge of the world. However, God will slowly reveal himself to us who he created so that we will follow His design. If only we listen. This may sound like empty talk, but ponder it for a little bit and think I why I say these things.
@xdragon2k I think you say these things because you LITERALLY don't know what you are talking about. Millions of people have not only "shaken" a previously held belief in god, many never had it to begin with. You make sweeping statements that can only make sense if you don't know much at all about anything.
@greyeyed123 You want to know what I'm very sure of? I am sure of that there is someone that came to show us what the God of this world is not a god of pure wrath, but of love and understanding as well. And because he died willingly after being tortured but still love us, a lot of people come to believe and love him as their God not out of fear but out of respect and hope. Those that truly believe in him do not fear death and live their life serving others following his example.
@xdragon2k You can SAY you are sure of these things. You can even BE sure of them. That doesn't IN THE LEAST mean any of them are true! Also, god did not die in your mythology (you are confused again) since he cannot die (he's god). Moreover, the "not fearing death" thing is totally irrelevant, as there are plenty of nonbelievers who don't fear death, and Buddhists, and Muslims, etc. Moreover, god's example is not very good. (I take it you are one of those believers who doesn't read the bible?)
@greyeyed123 I am actually someone that didn't understand God and try to make sense of what is written in the bible. The only reason I am learning and trying to live it is because of the transformation effect it has on people around me and myself, and that I sense the wisdom I found in it. If I failed to grow by myself and the teaching is helping me grow, who am I to say the teaching is wrong?
@xdragon2k If you study other religions, you will find the same "wisdom", the same "effect it has on people around me and [on] myself".
If you actually care what is true and what is not true, you should use reason and evidence TO FIND OUT if it is true. If all of your reasons are fallacies, erroneous, or psychological, and all of your evidence can be used to support any other imaginable belief...then you have to ask yourself...do I have ANY reason to believe this? The answer is: no.
@greyeyed123 Christianity reached me first and thus it is what I study. Christianity asked me to seek and understand Jesus and how he lives his live and I did. I finally get what this God desired for this world to have and I want that same world as well. There is no reason for me to look else where. All I need to do is live that life and we shall have it, especially if we all work toward that same goal.
@xdragon2k And if you were born in Iran Islam would have "reached you first", and if you were born in ancient Greece, the pantheon would have reached you first, and if you were into science fiction, Scientology would have reached you first. This isn't a way to find truth, it is a way to NOT CARE what is true! Besides, you haven't even read your bible so you have little grounds to say Jesus found you first. I highly doubt you have sold all of your stuff and make no plans for the future.
@xdragon2k If you care if a claim is true, and the claim is one of many claims (such as a god claim), and the one of many claims is INCOMPATIBLE with the other claims, then YOU DON'T JUST IGNORE THE OTHER CLAIMS! You have to find a means to DETERMINE WHICH IS TRUE. And that is called critical thinking, logic, evidence, etc. None of the god claims has met their burden of proof, which means they are all on the same list as everything contradictory, false, or imaginary. Doesn't this disturb you?
@greyeyed123 While the physical evidence I found can sometimes be contradictory or rather impossible, I find that the intents (spiritual) are not. This God do care of the soul of His people. He is protecting them from any other forces that may try to or could destroy them. If we are inconvenienced because of this belief, perhaps we need to look inside and see whether we are at the wrong. If we are not, then you shouldn't worry that this God will do you harm.
@xdragon2k You are back to the "protecting" thing again--are you claiming protection beyond the "protecting the soul after death" thing? That isn't evidence! Moreover, if your god were real, the evidence would be obvious. Doesn't this disturb you? Doesn't the fact that your spiritual "evidence" looks EXACTLY the same for those who have different religious beliefs, beliefs in psychic powers, beliefs in alien abductions, etc? Moreover, "looking inside" doesn't lead to truth!!!!!
@greyeyed123 Before we look outside, we need to look inside for our truth, the one that really matters. External evidences can be faulty as our limitation of the knowledge of the external universe. Thus we cannot depend too much upon them. The truth of our lives lies within us. God given every creature way to figure out how to live from within them. We are not so different. You without knowing God may have found your answer to life. That is God working within you.
On the contrary, the ONLY evidences we can depend upon our external ones! How can you not see this? Are you not aware that many people hold "internal evidences" for "internal truths" that are absolutely CONTRARY to your internal truth and evidence? Are you not aware that internal "truth" and "evidence" can be debunked objectively and easily with what you would call external evidences? If your internal truths were true, you could easily test for them...and we can, and they fail. EVERY TIME.
@greyeyed123 How can we believe what we know are from the outside before we know deep down inside our heart that we CAN know what the outside is true? What gave us that confidence? For all we know, the outside is random. Then you say, but the outside ISN'T random. Why do you think not? There are something that set rules on everything in this universe. Aside from the rule of the physical world, there are rules for the internal world, our mind, our thoughts, our action. Those need base too.
@xdragon2k What gave us that confidence is the fact that testing WORKS WHEN WE TRY IT! If it didn't work, if the supernatural was real, if demons could have changed the DNA tests, or if ghosts could swap out fingerprints at crime scenes, or if god suddenly decided that the freezing point of water was 100 degrees celsius, or if oil was no longer combustible, then TRYING TO DETERMINE TRUTH IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD WOULD NEVER WORK...and we wouldn't exist anyway, which would put a crimp in our search.
@xdragon2k "we know deep down inside our heart" Moreover, logic dictates certain things that doesn't require us to see things directly. For instance, you cannot be Abraham Lincoln because you are alive right now, humans do not live to be 200 years old, and there were multiple accounts of Lincoln's assassination nearly 150 years ago. See how I didn't look "deep into my heart", I simply used my brain--logic, critical thinking, and the nature of evidence.
@greyeyed123 What will you do if the decision you have to make you do not have time to collect evidence or solution for? Do you toss a coin or do you have some sort of a believe system that lead you to the right decision or believe that whatever decision you're going to make will be okay?
@xdragon2k Given the unlikely situation in which past knowledge, combined with critical thinking, restricted by time is not enough... then you must make a decision based on nothing, and that decision may indeed BE WRONG randomly, and everything will not "be ok". You seem to think there are some kind of guarantees in life. In your worldview, if you must risk your life based on nothing and SURVIVE, god answered your prayer. The guy who did the same and died isn't there to disagree.
@xdragon2k Moreover, I want you to consider the "toss of a coin", and 50/50 situations. If you sit down, pray for heads, and toss the coin continually, nothing special will happen. It looks exactly the same as if no one was praying. And guess what? The same is true for other 50/50 situations, it's just that YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE OUTCOME CORRESPONDS TO YOUR PRAYER AND FORGET WHEN IT DOES NOT! If you pray for rain, it will eventually rain--because rain is something that happens naturally.
@greyeyed123 That's not how prayer works. Everytime we ask our dad for something, he may gave us what we asked, and sometimes he may not. The same with God. If it is in his will, he will give it to us, if not then we won't get it (or at least not yet). The question is, so what's the different between asking and not asking? At least after praying we know that if we can't have it, that means God have other plans for us and we should seek what that is.
@xdragon2k You don't seem to realize that what you are describing is a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. If something isn't working, it isn't because god is making it not work, it's simply because IT DOESN'T WORK. If it DOESN'T WORK, you try to determine how it might work better or differently, and try that. That is called experiment, experience, verification, and falsification--in other words, THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. It's the hallmark of intelligence and has nothing to do with gods.
@greyeyed123 In religion we BELIEVE that what is prescribed to us is the best God can offer us at this time to live through His design. When we have nothing, the best way out of trouble that we have is our intelligence. However, the mind can be corrupted by sin and stray from its purpose. God is calling us to keep our brain pristine by not straying too far from the truth. God kept a way for us to come back to the truth. Because only truth works.
@xdragon2k Yes, only truth works. And we know how to determine truth. AND IT ISN'T SIMPLY BY BELIEVING. One can believe all kinds of things that are demonstrably false. Critical thinking and the scientific method are the only means we have to determine truth.
@greyeyed123 When we're little, we are taken cared of by our parents. We rely on what our parent told us we can and can't do. When we grow up, we became independent and no longer need our parents as we can work for ourselves. Does that mean our parents didn't exist? If we fall broke with no job, don't we want to know that we still have our parents house to go to? We can explore the world, but we need not throw our home away.
@xdragon2k You are arguing from analogy. That is a fallacy. You really need to study critical thinking more. How about this: say your parents are dead, your grandparents are dead, and your great grandparents are dead (but you are alive). Wouldn't you just LOVE to be able to go live at your great-great grandparents house if you fall on hard times? By your logic, your great-great grandparents must be alive simply because it would nice to move in with them if you had hard times. NONSENSE!
@greyeyed123 If our parents (God) die, we won't exist anymore to worry about it. God can't die. At least, we can't kill him. We can forget about him, but we will look for him again eventually after exploring for long and don't find a good place we can call home.
@xdragon2k You are being irrational. Your argument from analogy doesn't work because parents can and do die. God is not real, so saying god is like your parents (when parents are real and do die) makes no sense. Just to be sure: you are aware that people who do not in the least believe in your god, or any gods, exist? You keep pretending as if such people do not exist, or if they do, their lives are miserable and in despair. There are millions of us. Open your eyes.
What evidence do you have that A) god exists, and B) god cannot die or be killed. Many god's have been killed throughout human history--people just stopped believing in them. Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, IS STILL THERE! If the ONLY way you can know of something's existence is believing in it DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE, then it is imaginary by definition. I again challenge you to tell me how I can distinguish (in reality) between prayers to George and prayers to Jesus.
@xdragon2k "If our parents (God) die, we won't exist anymore to worry about it." Also, we don't die just because our parents die. Are you aware of this?
@xdragon2k " That's not how prayer works" Prayer DOESN'T work. Here's the thing: say you pray to your god, and if it happens it is god's will, and if it doesn't, you know god wants you to seek other things. But say I believe in my god named George, and when I pray to him and my prayer is answered, it is his will, but when it isn't, he wants me to do something else. HOW DO WE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN YOUR GOD AND GEORGE? The outcomes are exactly the same...as if NOTHING were happening at all!!!!!
@greyeyed123 If you don't ask God, you will feel that whatever that is happening is random and has no significance. But when you believe that God has purpose in everything that is happening in this world and you ask for something, you will have the confidence that whatever is happening has a purpose and that you can move with that purpose instead of wallowing in despair (yes, people do that most of the time).
@xdragon2k You again think that the choice is either A) believe in god, transcendental purposes, and be happy, or B) live in despair. That isn't the choice at all, and NO, people don't live in despair most of the time. Religion often tears down an individual's reality and self esteem, only to replace that reality and self esteem with a new reality that includes a savior, redeemer, etc. It's a psychological trick. Knowing what reality is helps you do BETTER in life, not worse.
" If you don't ask God, you will feel that whatever that is happening is random" You don't seem to understand: it doesn't matter what you FEEL in any case! We can test this to determine that it is RANDOM IN OBJECTIVE REALITY no matter how you feel about it! Prayer DOES NOT WORK. Try this: we're flipping coins and I pray for heads, you pray for tails, and every time heads comes up you say your prayer worked, and every time tails comes up I say my prayer worked. IT NEVER WORKED AT ALL!
@greyeyed123 I think Jesus would have understand you most. One of his message is that God will send Holy Spirit upon us to guide us. This is God living in us. Our body is his temple. When you say public prayer for food and abundance of food came together from everywhere, that is God and prayer working in people. Prayers do work. More importantly, we need to form our mind to leave room for God and understand his way so when we pray, it is God answering our prayer.
@xdragon2k I think George would have understand you most. One of his message is that George will send His Spirit upon us to guide us. This is George living in us. Our body is his temple. When you say public prayer for food and abundance of food came together from everywhere, that is George and prayer working in people. Prayers do work. More importantly, we need to form our mind to leave room for George and understand his way so when we pray, it is George answering our prayer.
@greyeyed123 If George is what people believe is God's name, I won't have objection on it. What important isn't His name, but what He stands for. My message is that prayer works. It is just not how you explained it should. Because we believe in these things, prayer works. If you are the only person that believe, prayer will work in you. You will be God's hand and feet that do His work. And because He meant well for the world, all you will do is for the betterment for the world.
Good grief. Then say George teaches that Jesus is not a true god, but George is. Do you not see that your magical thinking has NO BORDERS. You can pop anything you wish into it and it "works" EXACTLY THE SAME! Logic and critical thinking DO NOT WORK THAT WAY because they deal in truth, and there cannot be a variety of truths in objective reality. Prayer does not work. You are redefining "work" in a way such that it is meaningless. Try to use "work" this way in another context--you can't.
@greyeyed123 It is like you believing in logic and critical thinking. They are your God. Therefore, all the work you do will reflect what that God. I'm not saying I don't believe in logic and critical thinking, I just believe that there are more than just logic and critical thinking. They can both exist together. Science filled world doesn't need to exclude God that stands for love, justice, mercy, hope, etc. The question will boil down to is which God is the highest?
@xdragon2k You have no grounds to say god and critical thinking can both exist together, since you do not understand what critical thinking is. If you did, you'd realize that believing things for which there is insufficient evidence is contrary to critical thinking. Moreover, logic and critical thinking are not my "god"--I don't have to have faith in them, because we have EVIDENCE THAT THEY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, and we also have evidence that god belief DOES NOT.
@greyeyed123 Not everyone can live by testing things before they do them. Sometimes you have to just believe in something (not blindly) and do what is prescribed and decide if it is true. Perhaps it is not as you think the result should be, but they are prescribed so that you can be saved from yourself as we might not know what is best for us if we only depend on what we know.
@xdragon2k I can see I am making no head way here. Let me try this approach: say I believe that demons are pushing all objects around me toward the earth, and that without these demons no object would fall toward the earth, and that the intelligence of these demons can be seen by the consistency of all falling objects, and that the fact that these demons are invisible, intangible, and unknown by us means that we should believe they are real. HOW WOULD YOU FIND OUT IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT?
@xdragon2k "Not everyone can live by testing things before they do them." Everything we do is a test, and testing doesn't require us to do the test ourselves...it just requires us to open our eyes and use our brains. Moreover, you still cling to the notion that there must be guarantees in life. THERE ARE NOT. If you decide riding an ATV without a helmet is a good idea, and you kill yourself, you'll never ride an ATV without a helmet again. The smart will learn vicariously to wear helmets.
@greyeyed123 The knowledge in the bible is beyond just wearing helmet. It tells us what we need to focus our mind to to be able to live a good life. Living longer shouldn't be our ultimate goal since every human dies physically. There has to be something more important than that. Things like making sure our species survive long term. All creature are designed to have this in mind or they won't survive generations after generations.
@xdragon2k "Things like making sure our species survive long term." Survival long term is very much something we can test for and observe--behaviors that lead to functionality, surviving, and even thriving. Why is it that the countries with the least belief in god have the best factors for society health? Do you not see that relying on reason and evidence (ignoring all supernatural claims) directly helps you survive and thrive? Depending on supernatural claims of any kind DOES NOT.
@greyeyed123 But do you know why we have the need to survive? Who put it in us? (we don't know, some call God) What would happen to us if we ignore this instinct? (uneasy feeling, regrets, anxiety) What happen if we follow this instinct? (relief, happiness, joy) Can we categorize those feeling to hell and heaven? (maybe) Can we categorize a place where people hate and distrust each other hell? (yes) And the opposite full of love and mercy be heaven? (sure)
@xdragon2k You are embarrassing yourself with ignorance. 1) We don't "need" to survive; in fact, we all die eventually. 2) Our drive to survive is a part of evolution and biology; it is found in all creatures, not just humans, and I'm sure you wouldn't say a spider has a soul put in it to survive. 3) If someone is born without a drive to survive, or with dangerous tendencies...they die before they can have more children. Cont...
@xdragon2k I want you to think about survival for a moment, and our general drive to survive. It isn't absolute. Some people have characteristics that are reckless and dangerous, some people are born dead, etc. Now consider the two of us, you and I. How many of our ancestors, going back as long as you wish, survived long enough to have offspring? ALL OF THEM! And can you not see that that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival, such as wanting to survive, now TENDS to be in us?
@greyeyed123 Not a grammar nazi, but the line where you stated:
"...And can you not see that that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival..." - in this instance if you feel you need two "that"'s back to back, then just use ONE "that". e.g.
"...And can you not see that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival..."
I preferred the two "thats" because with one "that", the reading becomes ambiguous after the "that" because it could be either a demonstrative pronoun with the antecedent being (in this case) the previous idea that all his ancestors survived long enough to reproduce, OR the introduction of a relative clause which doesn't become clear without a second or third consideration. With two "thats", both of them are made clear and the meaning of the sentence flows without meaningful disruption.
@greyeyed123 Maybe I went too far on the last two. But you get the idea where I'm going here? Some of this concept are based on logic but easier to understand to those that don't have as structured and as logical thinking as you are. People will only understand after they follow the commandments on their daily life. Having said that, you have to discern whether the religion (or more importantly the leader) you are following is consitent with this true God.
@xdragon2k "have to discern whether the religion (or more importantly the leader) you are following is consitent with this true God."
and how do you know the god is true? there are many gods throughout history. You just do not believe in them because you were raised in a time when they were unpopular. If you lived 3000 years ago, you probably would have believed in some ancient gods... would you be in hell because of that? The notion that you NEED god to live a great life is so false...
@xdragon2k You don't follow the ten commandments, nor the other 613 laws. You know how I know that? They are idiotic, inconsistent, and many are illegal. Are you aware that the final draft of the 10 Commandments in Exodus 34 bear no resemblance to what people CALL the "ten commandments"? Have you read your bible? In the earlier version (the familiar ones) most of the commandments have NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALITY!
@xdragon2k "Science filled world doesn't need to exclude God that stands for love, justice, mercy, hope, etc" You can have all those things without a notion of god, which makes god useless. "The question will boil down to is which God is the highest?" Not even god can break the laws of logic. But if you say he can, then the highest god is the god which can create the universe and everything in it while simultaneously not existing. THAT god would be the most powerful.
Although I am an Atheist that believes in evolution, it is true that Darwin was mentioned in many speeches during World War 1, and the common argument was, that if the strongest are suppose to survive, then the weak should die, so there should be a war to prove that we (the nation of the speaker) are the dominant people.
@DarkestLaugh No it doesn't. People who take a description of natural processes and twist it into a prescriptive IDEOLOGY has its dangers, as do all ideologies (evolution is not an ideology). "Social Darwinism" is nonsense that has no relation to evolution, and "fittest" has nothing to do with strongest, richest, biggest, smartest, etc--it means FITTEST, which ONLY means that which is capable of surviving. Evolution requires VASTLY longer time periods than Social Darwinism even considered.
Consider this, your parents get married and have a child, you. During the first year of your life, your parents lose their jobs. Losing hope and not wanting to sacrifice their lifestyle, they decided to sacrifice you instead. The plan is to stage an accident that killed you and fool the law enforcement. There is no punishment to be feared. However, since they believe in God, out of fear or respect, they decided to forgo kiling you and live in smaller house instead. Did God fail to protect?
@xdragon2k If my parents only refrain from killing me out of fear of god, they are psychotic and have identifiable brain disease. Moreover, if the underlying assumptions in this scenario were true, those who DON'T believe in god would be killing people, stealing, doing drugs, etc, and yet they don't in near the proportion as believers. What stops them? We have entire COUNTRIES that have millions of nonbelievers that are doing just fine.
What ticks me off is the exact OPPOSITE of this scenario has been seen many, many times. How many times have we turned on the news to find some parent who killed their kids because they thought the rapture was coming, or because they wanted their children to be with god? Even the Virginia Tech. shooter had a mother who saw his psychotic behaviors as an indication of demonic possession rather than mental illness, so she sought religious help instead of psychological--how'd that turn out?
@xdragon2k Are you claiming such evidence cannot exist? If so, what basis do you have for believing in a very specific kind of god? Moreover, if god does not manifest in reality in any way, then he is indistinguishable from nothing. Consider this: what would a universe look like which WASN'T created by a god (Christian, deist, or otherwise)? If such a universe looks exactly like this one, then you are just making stuff up and declaring it is true based literally on nothing.
@greyeyed123 I believe in Jesus because I can discern Jesus's intentions which he claims to be God's will and it is not to seek to destroy but to ensure we have lives. There are many false God before him that claim to grant us material goods and comfort but cares not of the health of our soul by sacrificing others. Until science can discern the intention of the creator (that's a whole other topic) that states otherwise, I will believe in Him.
@xdragon2k You do realize this is magical thinking, and can be used to "validate" anything imaginable. Don't you care to use a method that can actually, and intellectually honestly, distinguish what is true from what is not? Moreover, YOU CANNOT DISCERN Jesus's intentions! If you could, all Christians would agree on what those intentions are. They don't, which is why there are 30,000 denominations! When something is based on nothing but human imagination, it splits like this.
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Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. 'The' Way, not 'a' way. Fear of God is a good thing, as those who have it will think twice about sinning instead of rushing headlong in. Read John 14:6
KingdomSeeker2012 2 weeks ago
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‘Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil, It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones.’ Proverbs 3:7,8
KingdomSeeker2012 2 weeks ago
My opinion only. If God does exists and gave us His intellilect than
Who can prove cures for disease haven't been discovered. Maybe God already supplied us
With answers and knowledge doctors and government decided to hold the cure ransom.
Maybe cancer cure knowledge has been around for years and money is more important
Gaybykersonacid 3 weeks ago
@Gaybykersonacid The reason, I believe, no good answer (cure) for cancers has been found, is that cancer is man-made. Just like HIV and AIDs. Why sell the cure, when you can keep the people alive for as long as it takes to rob them of every penny they have?
DemePoole 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula
Yes I need real proof of the existence of any god. Without that proof all you are left with is personal revelations from individuals who may have ulterior motives for what they say. If something as important as my "eternal soul" was at stake I would expect a loving god to make his presence so abundantly clear that no one could ever raise even a spectre of doubt. If it failed to do so it would be the same as condemning me to "Hell"
Rikmatchek 1 month ago
To WaltonSauce: Thank-you for your tip. Yes, hearts do pump blood through the human body. We can live in our earthly flesh bodies that way. Proof of what I am saying on here is needed for you to believe in a loving God and his Son, Jesus Christ? John 3:16-For God so loved the world that he gave his only son Jesus Christ that no one should perish but have everlasting life. Amen. My proof comes through the work of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) here on earth. You need to meet Jesus to see proof?
idahopaula 1 month ago
@idahopaula So people thousands of years ago were given proof and evidence in the form of the dead rising, seas parting, rivers turning to blood and so on, but today we get nothing at all? He doesn't care if he does exist, right?
The truth is that none of those actually happened. Remember, the people reporting those "miracles" didn't know where rain or babies came from. Think about it. They just explained things in any way they could. And it wasn't with science. LOL
gvman3670 4 weeks ago
@gvman3670: You will get it all in the future. God's JUDGMENTS ARE COMING to this planet. They are "supernatural events" by God & they are judgments agaisnt all sinners that reject God & Jesus Christ during the 7 year reign of the Antichrist here on earth. See The Book of Revelation (last book of the bible).These events are recorded from the past in Genesis (first book of the bible) by Moses. They did happen as told by the Prophets of the Old Testament & Apostles of the New Testament.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula OK, let me get this out there so you understand it. I've probably read your Bible far more than you have. And I spent over 40 years in a Fundamentalist family so far. AND I've read many other ancient texts, including the books that were removed from your Bible. Don't
Your threats of Judgement and Hell are vapid and empty. They mean nothing. If it worked on you it proves you're weak. And gullible. Don't accept threats, only accept evidence and truth.
gvman3670 3 weeks ago
To devante 11: Hi. I am writing on here to explain to all of you that God DOES SPEAK through the heart and mind of people. He also send his angels as messengers to earth to minister to people. They can take human form if necessary. Be careful who you entertain. It may be an angel of God Almighty. God works through His Spirit-the Holy Spirit. He speaks to our conscience mind and to the inner most parts of the human heart. As God designed us to be in a relationship with him always. God Bless You.
idahopaula 1 month ago
@idahopaula
Might want to hit the reply button instead of typing "To XXXX", they get notified of your reply that way.
Hearts pump blood, do you have any evidence for anything you just said?
WaltonSauce 1 month ago
To Carbide195: Yes, my Dear One. I am using God's word-the Holy Bible because it was written by God. He spoke directly to the Prophets & Apostles in the bible. Of the Old and New Testaments God spoke to these men to scribe the bible in Greek first, then Hebrew. The King James version was translated in the 1600's as the order came from the King of England at that time in history-King James. The bible is God's word for all people on earth and it contains "supernatural" power from the Holy Spirit.
idahopaula 1 month ago
@idahopaula
"I am using God's word-the Holy Bible because it was written by God"....He spoke directly"
Gods dont write.......nor do they speak....nor is it a he
devante11 1 month ago
@idahopaula If there was an omniscient god it wouldn't use TEXTS, which are written in dying languages and easily mistranslated to further ones' agendas. We know for a FACT that most of the books in your Bible are mistranslated, often purposely. Heck, just the word "god" is mistranslated. 51 books were omitted or radically changed, too. What does that do for the validity of your book?
The fact is that barely educated individuals wrote it. FACT.
gvman3670 4 weeks ago
@gvman3670: Yes, the written word was given to the prohphets & apostles to record. They had oral tradition of telling about biblical events before the greeks recorded the bible, then it was recorded into hebrew-the King James version was recorded into english in 1606 by order of King James. And, the bible was needed per instructions from God through the Holy Spirit to penn the words of the Holy Bible. Man was in "sin"-bible was needed. The bible is "divinely inspired" by God for man.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula No, you better do some homework in Biblical Scholarship. Seriously. We have NO original texts, we KNOW that several books are forgeries, we KNOW that the content of many books is forged and we KNOW the Nicean Council omitted or changed everything that didn't jive with their teachings at the time. And we KNOW that the Bible's creation myth is a monotheisted version of older Mesopotamian tales.
How is that divinely inspired in any way? Please.....fill me in.
gvman3670 3 weeks ago
@gvman3670: You are looking at the Holy Bible through man's eyes-not God's eyes. It was God that literally told these prophets & apostles to write down what he said from the very beginning. Even the first 5 books of the bible was written by Moses. Moses went up Mt. Sinai and God was there. God wrote on stone tablets the Ten Commandments right in front of Moses' eyes. The Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) was the "divine inspiration." John wrote Revelation through visions by God in Patmos.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula Are you freakin' kiddin' me? You better be joking. No thinking, reasonable, non-brainwashed human could EVER give a BS answer like that and not feel dirty, dishonest and downright stupid.
Moses wrote nothing and never existed. Fact. And what kind of drugs does one need to see a burning bush or to write with the finger of god?
And nobody knows who wrote the book of Revelations of Jesus Christ. Sorry. It's a known fact. We haven't a single original manuscript. None.
gvman3670 3 weeks ago
@gvman3670: Okay. I am laughing because you are not a christian, obviously. And, I am speaking about biblical and historical records regarding God and Jesus. If you believed in God and knew Jesus through prayer and having "faith" in Jesus you would understand my comments. So, to debate these things is of no use. I believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit-you do not. So, my point is, I am a christian and calling me names just shows me how biggoted you are towards christians.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula And you don't care whether or not what you believe is true apparently. The funny thing is that your Bible is why I don't believe. You should actually read it. ALL of it. Then look at the rest of the world and all the evidence to the contrary. If you don't you're just being dishonest, and you're only lying to yourself to keep a comfy delusion.
gvman3670 3 weeks ago
@gvman3670: No, you are wrong. I have read the bible backwards and forwards since childhood. I was brought up in the church. Not dishonest Dear One. I do look at the world and it is falling apart! It is going to get worse too! Many judgments are coming from God Almighty. Please read these books in the bible: Daniel, Ezekiel, The Book of Revelation, Matthew. Many prophecies are contained in these books as God spoke to the writers to put these words down for the entire world to read.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula LOL so the world is looking alot better that the 40's lol so how is it getting worse? There isn't a world war going on...come on dude
BluntVerbally23 5 days ago
@idahopaula "I was brought up in the church."
On another video, you told me you were a "born again" Christian.
"Not dishonest Dear One."
Apparently you are.
SeedsOfHatred 9 hours ago
@SeedsOfHatred: Even your name on here implies the "evil" inside of your mind. I do not consider your words to be of any value to me. Lucifer has you. Take Care.
I am going to pray for you.
idahopaula 9 hours ago
@idahopaula My name is irrelevant to this argument. I am simply pointing out your dishonesty.
Which, as I recall, is not something Lucifer would want anyone to do. Being the "great deciever" that he is.
SeedsOfHatred 9 hours ago
@SeedsOfHatred: Your name here is very relevant as it shows what you are thinking?? The name is something you came up with & it is of the "darkness; which implies evil." I am telling you the truth according to the scriptures of God's word-the Holy Bible-King James Version. It is the word of God that I tell you-these things will come to pass if you reject Jesus Christ and reject future prophecy as God expressed in the bible. The devil has already been defeated by Jesus Christ. Amen
idahopaula 8 hours ago
@idahopaula My name is a reflection of my ill-feelings toward a cruel and unjust world. I dislike people because they're not nearly as caring and loving toward others as I believe they should be. Instead, they choose bigotry and heartless malice. Thus, I dislike them for it.
If that makes me "evil", then so be it.
SeedsOfHatred 8 hours ago
@gvman3670 Relax. I know it's disturbing the things that some people choose to believe in, but you get used to it after a while. If people want to believe in fairy tales, let them believe in fairy tales. I'd say Moses was simply smoking some killer cush dipped in LSD with a side of shrooms. I mean, what else was there to do out in the hot ass desert, or wherever all this was supposed to have taken place? :-)
DemePoole 3 weeks ago
@DemePoole Im 41 and have a Fundie family. I STILL haven't got used to people knowingly deluding theme;ves. I never will.
gvman3670 3 weeks ago
All hail Jeff Dee!
Mossmyr 1 month ago
To Uberlaser: Yes, my Dear One. God certainly did create all things on earth. He created you and me and all human beings. Animals, too. God is omnipresent. He is everywhere. My proof? Well, if you are an atheist and do not believe there is a GOD or CREATOR you will not believe what I tell you either. For God is the "substance of ALL LIFE and he is the ALPHA and OMEGA, the BEGINNING and the END of all things." A person will NEVER believe there is a God in heaven unless they find Jesus first. Amen
idahopaula 2 months ago
@idahopaula You're using the bible, to argue that your god is real?
Carbide195 1 month ago
To ErgoProxy12345: Hello. God Bless You. Thank-you for calling me a "troll" as it clearly shows your ignorance. You misspelled 5 words in your comments. That is ok because you were busy trying to explain the "scientific method" to me. Dear One, I am a hospice nurse by profession. I learned through the years what a "hypothesis" is and what is means. But, I thank-you for your clarification of this process. God created ALL THINGS. It is based upon complex DNA & ribonucleic molecules-too complex.
idahopaula 2 months ago
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@idahopaula
No you would like to believe 'god created all things' but you do not know he did. And you don't know what 'god' is either.
srspower 2 months ago
@srspower: Yes, I do know. Because I believe and have faith in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I have seen miracles and healings. These were by "supernatural" as God healed these individuals. Amen.
idahopaula 3 weeks ago
@idahopaula 'God created ALL THINGS'
Where is your proof?
Uberlaser 2 months ago
Dear shieldsff: Hello. God Bless You. Sorry, I did not make any mistake other than a spelling error which we all do Dear One. You are speaking about the "good works" based on our faith in Jesus Christ for he said, "works without faith is dead". A direct quote from Jesus. My conscience is just fine. I believe in the work of the Holy Spirit with all people here on earth . As the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) is the one that tugs at our heart & mind concerning God and Jesus Christ. So, I will pray.
idahopaula 2 months ago
To influxrift: Thanks for that "exists" . not "exsists". My error. Have a good day or evening and God Bless You.
idahopaula 3 months ago
sorry, you are mistake. ;Christians certainly have a concept of what constitutes truth, morality & the social good-just as you. These beliefs are expressed in all manner of good actions including feeding the hungry, aiding the poor, caring for widows and orphans, missions, opposing evil wars, social oppressions, and building hospitals and schools among many other endeavors. There is real good & evil & maybe it's your conscience bothered by certain behaviors. God rules our eternal destinies
shieldsff 3 months ago
To hanyuo: This is my response: Hello Dear One. Please, may I tell you how to spell "atheists", not "atheits". Okay. You have your idea about the evolution of mankind based on Darwinism; however, it has been proven directly in the last several years that most scientists now believe there is a "Creator" for all life on this planet. Science has redinfined their "Scientific Method" to say life is so complex when they examine the DNA from fossils, etc they are doubting evolution.
I know GOD EXSISTS
idahopaula 3 months ago
@idahopaula "exists"
influxrift 3 months ago
@idahopaula That is true, and darwanism has progressively been debunked by scientists themselves
FitnessMinded 2 months ago
@FitnessMinded Do you have any links to the articles by these scientists? I would love to read them. Oh and by the way, if you can't call evolution by it's proper name then I don't have to call creationism by it's proper name. I can call creationism whatever I want, and I choose to call creationism," Lying, stupid, insane, superstitious, delusional, assholism". Now where is your evidence that supports Lying, stupid, insane, superstitious, delusional, assholism over (facepalm) ...darwanism?
jmg94j 2 months ago
@idahopaula I'm sorry but: are you a troll? if you are, you need to clarify it. If your not, then you don't know what the scientific method is because it CANNOT be made to say anything. the metheod is that: a METHOD. it gives bases on how to validate or disprove a postulated hypothesis. the hypothesis can be any claim wether it is about a god or about the best way to wipe one's ass but its the testing part which has yet to prove any creator of the universe. evedences must be followed not led
ErgoProxy12345 2 months ago
"What is exactly bad about believing something that there is no good reason to?"
Durr, the reason, maybe?
OneStonedBastard 3 months ago
To ZZzzzzzWhat: This is my response: Yes. I have read the bible in it's entirety. I know the bible backwards and forward. I am not being a hypocrite here. I was raised in the church and have a very good understanding of scripture. I am led by the Holy Spirit and I pray earnestly to understand all scripture. Thank-you for your comments on here. I will take note of it. I know what Jesus expects of us and I study the bible everyday. Thank-you again and God Bless You for your comments. Amen.
idahopaula 3 months ago
@idahopaula wow, I guess we atheits are wrong, after all, the evolution principles don't apply with you here.
hanyuo 3 months ago
To silverkeen07: Here is my response to you: Dear One, I do not do "research" as you humanists and New Agers do this on a regular basis. I read the Word of the Living God in the Holy Bible as this is the "roadmap" for life on this earth and into eternity with Jesus Christ up in heaven. Amen. May God restore your thinking and may the Holy Spirit open your heart, your mind, your eyes, and ears to the TRUTH OF GOD. Hallelujah to the Lamb that was slain on the cross at Calvary for all mankind. Amen
idahopaula 3 months ago
@idahopaula you speak so passionately about the "Living god, Jesus" but have you ever read the-whole- bible? The research also applies to bible studies did you know that? it's so typical of you bible belt christians to preach about the 'word of god' without ever read the whole bible, that is hypocritical.
And btw if you really wanted silverkeen07 to see your response you would put the '@' before his nickname.
ZZzzzzzWhat 3 months ago
i wish i was christian.its really comforting.
but sadly im to smart.
Shogun600lt 3 months ago
My response to the show: I am a born again christian in Jesus Christ, Jeshua. I believe God or Yahweh, Jeshua, and the work of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit). As atheists think NOT OF GOD or He even exsisted from the beginning of time I realize that atheists are never going to be "receptive" to Jesus, to God our Creator, and to the Holy Spirit unless there is some divine intervention by the
hand of God or Yahweh. Without this, atheists are driven by postmodernism
and humanism. God Bless
idahopaula 4 months ago
@idahopaula Wrong. Please further more your research. it will do your soul some good. google bless.
silverkeen07 3 months ago
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We are due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you are not ready spiritually, you'll suffer. This is happening now, be ready. God Bless.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
"religion makes me feel good"
so does being an alcoholic.. but the costs of being an alcoholic outweigh the slight benefit of 'feeling good', trust me.
aegisgfx 5 months ago
something else i realized from the vid. theres really no point in believing just to believe so you can go to heaven 'just in case', its pointless. because there's so much more shit you gotta do to get into heaven, and so much forgiveness and whatever else you gotta do, and then u better be sure u picked the right religion... point is, theres no point in believing because even if heaven was real, few ppl can make it there...
LOGIC42369 5 months ago
Anyone who thinks religion in general or indiividual religious belief is harmless doesn't know the first thing about history. For many thousands of years one religious sect has been slaughtering people of another religious sect, for no reason other than a difference of opinion, even within their own religions! For example; Catholics vs. Protestants in Ireland and elsewhere. Religion = senseless murder in mass numbers. We'd be SO much better off without it!!!
1955RodHot 5 months ago
@1955RodHot Makes you wonder if we would have found another reason to kill ourselves without religion. or, let me rephrase the thought:
do you think, perhaps, they have always used religion to throw people into war for other reasons not pertaining to religioin (such as wanting land, resources, freedom from something) but told their soldiers about what the other ppl believe to motivate them? just a thought
LOGIC42369 5 months ago
@LOGIC42369 Are you suggesting that no human was ever killed due to religious conflict? Or just fewer than it seems on the surface? If the latter, so what? You can't pretend that without religion the history of human conflict would have been just the same or similar enough that religion doesn't matter. It permeates every facet of our society and influences virtually all of our decisions in some fashion. You can't just dismiss it as of no importance to our psychology or history.
1955RodHot 5 months ago
@1955RodHot i didn't dismiss it as of no importance at all, i was just wondering if without the religioin in the first place, would leaders have found a different way to gain control and make ppl kill others. granted, i can't think of a better idea to make ppl go to war than relgion, but it was only a thought.
and i never said no human was ever killed due to relgious conflict, i would have had to be born yesterday in a old ppls church to believe that haha, MOST wars (if not all) were religious
LOGIC42369 5 months ago
you have no idea what freedom feels like untill youve freed yourself from religion it ruins peoples lives while making them believe its helping there lives lo live without fear is true freedom and they will never know how that feels
kris6682 5 months ago
Atheists have a significant advantage over theists: they can decide for themselves what their purpose in life is going to be, and then pursue and attain that purpose. They can literally answer for themselves, "Why am I here?" Christians have three purposes in life: 1) populate the religion; 2) believe that Jesus came to save them, and for some of them, to force that opinion onto others; and 3) die and go to Heaven. They have no other purpose in life.
ChipArgyle 6 months ago
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Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.
BrightLight57 7 months ago
Everyone has delusions, even atheists. These guys are the thought police, telling people it's bad to think certain things.
FluffyFeralMarmot 7 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot of course it bad to think certain things because thoughts inform your actions.
esparagus 7 months ago
@esparagus You can think whatever you want. If you decide to put your thoughts into action only then do you face the consequences.
FluffyFeralMarmot 7 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot I think that they're just saying that having beliefs for good reasons is better than having beliefs because they feel good. The caller is arguing that it's possible to have a belief that doesn't affect behavior, so what is the harm in just having it?... And the point that the host are making is that it's demonstrably better to have a mindset that tries its best to reflect reality, and holding a belief that only makes you feel good contradicts that.
Periph1989 7 months ago
@Periph1989 Maybe in some circumstances it's "demonstrably" better to operate on a model that reflects reality as closely as possible -- immediate problem solving, for example. In a lot of cases, though, it's probably irrelevant or even counter-productive. Most of what we focus our time on -- competition for social standing, mate acquisition, distraction/entertainment -- requires a certain level of self deception to work.
FluffyFeralMarmot 7 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot I don't think those examples are the same as religious beliefs, though... and I don't think you need to give up a model that reflects reality as closely as possible in order to achieve them... and I don't think they're "telling people it's bad to think certain things". (I don't remember them saying that).
Periph1989 7 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot
Can you demonstrate how in a lot of cases being honest with yourself is counter-productive, where a factual assessment of the situation will actually harm you in the long run, or even short run?
As someone that has acquired high social standing, a mate, etc. I can tell you that self-deception was NEVER responsible for a positive step forward for me. I have no use for views that are out of touch with reality. They have never helped me.
Get out of your mom's basement, kid.
Damarcast 7 months ago
@Damarcast Your post is a fairly good illustration of my point. You concoct a story about me that allows you to think less of me (a kid living in mom's basement) and you can dismiss me out of hand without provoking dissonance. If you entertain the thought that I'm actually a father with an advanced degree, a six-figure income, and a purple heart, your position requires more work to justify.
By which criteria do you assign yourself "high" social standing? Think about which are illusions.
FluffyFeralMarmot 7 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot
How did it illustrate it? I destroyed it. You still have provided no evidence that truth can harm you. You are avoiding because you know you've overstepped what you can prove and entered the realm of batshit crazy. I didn't dismiss you out of hand. I asked you to prove.
-Advanced degree but not naming it, taking the time to google one up, are we?
-Everyone on the net has a six-figure income.
-Purple heart would mean you're an idiot that got wounded.
Please, try harder.
Damarcast 6 months ago
@Damarcast The social game requires deception, including of ourselves. For example, you're just trolling me, which is fine, but in playing that role you need to try to get a rise out of me in whatever way you can. You say things to demean me, however I'd be really surprised if you actually believed what you're saying, that if you came to my support group that you could tell the guy with no hands and the guy with traumatic brain injury that they're just idiots.
FluffyFeralMarmot 6 months ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot
This isn't the social game. This is the comment box of a youtube upload. I may be coming off harsher than I normally would, but I am not trolling you. I am not making things up to get a rise out of you. I don't care enough about you to go through that effort, and I hope you feel the same about me.
As for what I assume are vets you are referencing, I would say they're idiots on both accounts. First for believing in God, and second for joining the military.
Damarcast 6 months ago
@Damarcast First of all, I'm a vet. I served for more than 6 years in the US Army as a 19D (Cavalry Scouts). I served in several combat tours. I'm also an atheist. I grew up a christian, then I went to college and slowly abandoned my beliefs because I couldn't find any good rational reason to hold them. The "no atheist in the foxhole" is bullshit because I knew a lot of them in the army. In fact, war casualties were my strongest evidences against the usefulness of prayer.
petion2010 6 months ago 50
@petion2010
Good for you?
Damarcast 6 months ago
@petion2010 Really? My strongest evidence against prayer is that it doesn't fucking work.
HoLOLcaust 5 months ago
@HoLOLcaust Trust me, I know that. You know, I'm still waiting for one of those faith healers, regardless oft he religion, to cure an amputee or severe brain damage.
petion2010 5 months ago
@petion2010 I agree. I'm a former Marine.. I use to tell people when they were in combat.. go ahead an drop your gear and pray that god will protect you. I'll use my wepaon and flak jacket to protect me.
oknatora 5 months ago
@oknatora The chaplains always found a nice spin on everything though. I remember in 2007, in Camp Taji, one LMTV was hit with an IED that killed 14 infantry men. At their memorial service, the lead chaplain had the audacity to invoke god to accept them in Paradise, and said that they were in a better place. Mind boggling
petion2010 5 months ago
@petion2010 I agree, the Chaplains here though they talk about thier god in most ceremonies... when they talk indivually they are smart enough to say your god or w/e you believe in.
oknatora 5 months ago
@petion2010 Everyone in a foxhole is an atheist.
A true believer wouldn't bother with ducking, he'd just walk over to then enemy and pull the guns out of their hands...atheists are in foxholes because they know that the cover can stop a bullet, not their imaginary best pal.
dffykvn 5 months ago
@dffykvn That would be a good way to test their faith. Like psalm say 91 verse 7 says,
7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.
8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.
They can test this passage.
petion2010 5 months ago
@petion2010 The only true theists were the scots that ran into battle wearing only paint, the african tribesmen who thought magic water would stop bullets etc etc.
The christians can wear their crosses but if they believed that crap then they would walk through an iraqi battlefield wearing only a cross "knowing that it would protect them"
dffykvn 5 months ago
@petion2010 Ps, I wonder why christians didn't make the son of sam their prophet of the lords word on earth.
I mean he killed people because god spoke to him through his neighbors dog.
That's a total step up from a burning bush.
Where is his canonization?
Oh right, it's all fine and dandy if it happens in a fictional novel but when it happens in real life, the horror of it sets in -_-
dffykvn 5 months ago 13
@dffykvn Also, Moses didn't start killing in the name of God until he was in charge of a country. They go easier on killing people once you're in charge of a country.
Sure, he killed people before that, but then it wasn't God, he was just on a short fuse.
IoEstasCedonta 2 months ago
This was incredibly sad. In general, one should accept truth instead of falsehoods, regardless of any feelings. This should not even be a question.
Windysmoke 7 months ago
@gollyman666 ... Jump...look it up :)
BrightLight57 7 months ago
Atheists have not received the gift...simple...
2 Corinthians 4:4
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
BrightLight57 7 months ago
@BrightLight57 Thomas, 59:35 «For thou shall encounter in thy path those that hold the words of ancient texts to be the truths of this this world, and thou shall see them consider thou with the condescension and contempt of pre-socratian minds. But heed not the words of compulsive quoters of Palestinian bronze age goat-herders, for they are but background noise in the music of reality.»
PrincepsNemesis 7 months ago
@PrincepsNemesis Thomas? Not Biblical...Beware
BrightLight57 7 months ago
@BrightLight57 Nemesis 15:47 «You are a special kind of stupid are you not?»
PrincepsNemesis 7 months ago
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@PrincepsNemesis Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.
BrightLight57 7 months ago
@BrightLight57 Rubbish! How about some Ephesians passage where Paul stated for slaves to obey their masters.
petion2010 6 months ago
yeah i wish more of their conversations were like.usually just nut cases call.
soulseeker300 7 months ago
This was a very good conversation.
Airmanf7 8 months ago
This is so simple...atheists are proof of God...:)
BrightLight57 8 months ago
@BrightLight57 ....?
akaiYaMa9 8 months ago
@BrightLight57 huh? silly comment..
mg3d 7 months ago
@BrightLight57 You don't believe in unicorns. This proves unicorns exist!
easypsphacking 7 months ago
That guy was on a mission from Gahd
MikeEmery9 8 months ago
6:46
Oh hai, cursor.
Charmolution 8 months ago 9
I for one don't want to have God hover over me judging everything that I do. But there are reasons why people can't shake the fact that God exist. We just don't know who and how he works in our limited knowledge of the world. However, God will slowly reveal himself to us who he created so that we will follow His design. If only we listen. This may sound like empty talk, but ponder it for a little bit and think I why I say these things.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k I think you say these things because you LITERALLY don't know what you are talking about. Millions of people have not only "shaken" a previously held belief in god, many never had it to begin with. You make sweeping statements that can only make sense if you don't know much at all about anything.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 You want to know what I'm very sure of? I am sure of that there is someone that came to show us what the God of this world is not a god of pure wrath, but of love and understanding as well. And because he died willingly after being tortured but still love us, a lot of people come to believe and love him as their God not out of fear but out of respect and hope. Those that truly believe in him do not fear death and live their life serving others following his example.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You can SAY you are sure of these things. You can even BE sure of them. That doesn't IN THE LEAST mean any of them are true! Also, god did not die in your mythology (you are confused again) since he cannot die (he's god). Moreover, the "not fearing death" thing is totally irrelevant, as there are plenty of nonbelievers who don't fear death, and Buddhists, and Muslims, etc. Moreover, god's example is not very good. (I take it you are one of those believers who doesn't read the bible?)
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 I am actually someone that didn't understand God and try to make sense of what is written in the bible. The only reason I am learning and trying to live it is because of the transformation effect it has on people around me and myself, and that I sense the wisdom I found in it. If I failed to grow by myself and the teaching is helping me grow, who am I to say the teaching is wrong?
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k If you study other religions, you will find the same "wisdom", the same "effect it has on people around me and [on] myself".
If you actually care what is true and what is not true, you should use reason and evidence TO FIND OUT if it is true. If all of your reasons are fallacies, erroneous, or psychological, and all of your evidence can be used to support any other imaginable belief...then you have to ask yourself...do I have ANY reason to believe this? The answer is: no.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 Christianity reached me first and thus it is what I study. Christianity asked me to seek and understand Jesus and how he lives his live and I did. I finally get what this God desired for this world to have and I want that same world as well. There is no reason for me to look else where. All I need to do is live that life and we shall have it, especially if we all work toward that same goal.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k And if you were born in Iran Islam would have "reached you first", and if you were born in ancient Greece, the pantheon would have reached you first, and if you were into science fiction, Scientology would have reached you first. This isn't a way to find truth, it is a way to NOT CARE what is true! Besides, you haven't even read your bible so you have little grounds to say Jesus found you first. I highly doubt you have sold all of your stuff and make no plans for the future.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 I do care what is true, that is why I'm learning one that claim that it is truth from God.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k If you care if a claim is true, and the claim is one of many claims (such as a god claim), and the one of many claims is INCOMPATIBLE with the other claims, then YOU DON'T JUST IGNORE THE OTHER CLAIMS! You have to find a means to DETERMINE WHICH IS TRUE. And that is called critical thinking, logic, evidence, etc. None of the god claims has met their burden of proof, which means they are all on the same list as everything contradictory, false, or imaginary. Doesn't this disturb you?
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 While the physical evidence I found can sometimes be contradictory or rather impossible, I find that the intents (spiritual) are not. This God do care of the soul of His people. He is protecting them from any other forces that may try to or could destroy them. If we are inconvenienced because of this belief, perhaps we need to look inside and see whether we are at the wrong. If we are not, then you shouldn't worry that this God will do you harm.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You are back to the "protecting" thing again--are you claiming protection beyond the "protecting the soul after death" thing? That isn't evidence! Moreover, if your god were real, the evidence would be obvious. Doesn't this disturb you? Doesn't the fact that your spiritual "evidence" looks EXACTLY the same for those who have different religious beliefs, beliefs in psychic powers, beliefs in alien abductions, etc? Moreover, "looking inside" doesn't lead to truth!!!!!
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 Before we look outside, we need to look inside for our truth, the one that really matters. External evidences can be faulty as our limitation of the knowledge of the external universe. Thus we cannot depend too much upon them. The truth of our lives lies within us. God given every creature way to figure out how to live from within them. We are not so different. You without knowing God may have found your answer to life. That is God working within you.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
On the contrary, the ONLY evidences we can depend upon our external ones! How can you not see this? Are you not aware that many people hold "internal evidences" for "internal truths" that are absolutely CONTRARY to your internal truth and evidence? Are you not aware that internal "truth" and "evidence" can be debunked objectively and easily with what you would call external evidences? If your internal truths were true, you could easily test for them...and we can, and they fail. EVERY TIME.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 How can we believe what we know are from the outside before we know deep down inside our heart that we CAN know what the outside is true? What gave us that confidence? For all we know, the outside is random. Then you say, but the outside ISN'T random. Why do you think not? There are something that set rules on everything in this universe. Aside from the rule of the physical world, there are rules for the internal world, our mind, our thoughts, our action. Those need base too.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k What gave us that confidence is the fact that testing WORKS WHEN WE TRY IT! If it didn't work, if the supernatural was real, if demons could have changed the DNA tests, or if ghosts could swap out fingerprints at crime scenes, or if god suddenly decided that the freezing point of water was 100 degrees celsius, or if oil was no longer combustible, then TRYING TO DETERMINE TRUTH IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD WOULD NEVER WORK...and we wouldn't exist anyway, which would put a crimp in our search.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "we know deep down inside our heart" Moreover, logic dictates certain things that doesn't require us to see things directly. For instance, you cannot be Abraham Lincoln because you are alive right now, humans do not live to be 200 years old, and there were multiple accounts of Lincoln's assassination nearly 150 years ago. See how I didn't look "deep into my heart", I simply used my brain--logic, critical thinking, and the nature of evidence.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 What will you do if the decision you have to make you do not have time to collect evidence or solution for? Do you toss a coin or do you have some sort of a believe system that lead you to the right decision or believe that whatever decision you're going to make will be okay?
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k Given the unlikely situation in which past knowledge, combined with critical thinking, restricted by time is not enough... then you must make a decision based on nothing, and that decision may indeed BE WRONG randomly, and everything will not "be ok". You seem to think there are some kind of guarantees in life. In your worldview, if you must risk your life based on nothing and SURVIVE, god answered your prayer. The guy who did the same and died isn't there to disagree.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k Moreover, I want you to consider the "toss of a coin", and 50/50 situations. If you sit down, pray for heads, and toss the coin continually, nothing special will happen. It looks exactly the same as if no one was praying. And guess what? The same is true for other 50/50 situations, it's just that YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE OUTCOME CORRESPONDS TO YOUR PRAYER AND FORGET WHEN IT DOES NOT! If you pray for rain, it will eventually rain--because rain is something that happens naturally.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 That's not how prayer works. Everytime we ask our dad for something, he may gave us what we asked, and sometimes he may not. The same with God. If it is in his will, he will give it to us, if not then we won't get it (or at least not yet). The question is, so what's the different between asking and not asking? At least after praying we know that if we can't have it, that means God have other plans for us and we should seek what that is.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You don't seem to realize that what you are describing is a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. If something isn't working, it isn't because god is making it not work, it's simply because IT DOESN'T WORK. If it DOESN'T WORK, you try to determine how it might work better or differently, and try that. That is called experiment, experience, verification, and falsification--in other words, THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. It's the hallmark of intelligence and has nothing to do with gods.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 In religion we BELIEVE that what is prescribed to us is the best God can offer us at this time to live through His design. When we have nothing, the best way out of trouble that we have is our intelligence. However, the mind can be corrupted by sin and stray from its purpose. God is calling us to keep our brain pristine by not straying too far from the truth. God kept a way for us to come back to the truth. Because only truth works.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k Yes, only truth works. And we know how to determine truth. AND IT ISN'T SIMPLY BY BELIEVING. One can believe all kinds of things that are demonstrably false. Critical thinking and the scientific method are the only means we have to determine truth.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 When we're little, we are taken cared of by our parents. We rely on what our parent told us we can and can't do. When we grow up, we became independent and no longer need our parents as we can work for ourselves. Does that mean our parents didn't exist? If we fall broke with no job, don't we want to know that we still have our parents house to go to? We can explore the world, but we need not throw our home away.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You are arguing from analogy. That is a fallacy. You really need to study critical thinking more. How about this: say your parents are dead, your grandparents are dead, and your great grandparents are dead (but you are alive). Wouldn't you just LOVE to be able to go live at your great-great grandparents house if you fall on hard times? By your logic, your great-great grandparents must be alive simply because it would nice to move in with them if you had hard times. NONSENSE!
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 If our parents (God) die, we won't exist anymore to worry about it. God can't die. At least, we can't kill him. We can forget about him, but we will look for him again eventually after exploring for long and don't find a good place we can call home.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You are being irrational. Your argument from analogy doesn't work because parents can and do die. God is not real, so saying god is like your parents (when parents are real and do die) makes no sense. Just to be sure: you are aware that people who do not in the least believe in your god, or any gods, exist? You keep pretending as if such people do not exist, or if they do, their lives are miserable and in despair. There are millions of us. Open your eyes.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
What evidence do you have that A) god exists, and B) god cannot die or be killed. Many god's have been killed throughout human history--people just stopped believing in them. Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, IS STILL THERE! If the ONLY way you can know of something's existence is believing in it DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE, then it is imaginary by definition. I again challenge you to tell me how I can distinguish (in reality) between prayers to George and prayers to Jesus.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "If our parents (God) die, we won't exist anymore to worry about it." Also, we don't die just because our parents die. Are you aware of this?
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k " That's not how prayer works" Prayer DOESN'T work. Here's the thing: say you pray to your god, and if it happens it is god's will, and if it doesn't, you know god wants you to seek other things. But say I believe in my god named George, and when I pray to him and my prayer is answered, it is his will, but when it isn't, he wants me to do something else. HOW DO WE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN YOUR GOD AND GEORGE? The outcomes are exactly the same...as if NOTHING were happening at all!!!!!
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 If you don't ask God, you will feel that whatever that is happening is random and has no significance. But when you believe that God has purpose in everything that is happening in this world and you ask for something, you will have the confidence that whatever is happening has a purpose and that you can move with that purpose instead of wallowing in despair (yes, people do that most of the time).
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You again think that the choice is either A) believe in god, transcendental purposes, and be happy, or B) live in despair. That isn't the choice at all, and NO, people don't live in despair most of the time. Religion often tears down an individual's reality and self esteem, only to replace that reality and self esteem with a new reality that includes a savior, redeemer, etc. It's a psychological trick. Knowing what reality is helps you do BETTER in life, not worse.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
" If you don't ask God, you will feel that whatever that is happening is random" You don't seem to understand: it doesn't matter what you FEEL in any case! We can test this to determine that it is RANDOM IN OBJECTIVE REALITY no matter how you feel about it! Prayer DOES NOT WORK. Try this: we're flipping coins and I pray for heads, you pray for tails, and every time heads comes up you say your prayer worked, and every time tails comes up I say my prayer worked. IT NEVER WORKED AT ALL!
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 I think Jesus would have understand you most. One of his message is that God will send Holy Spirit upon us to guide us. This is God living in us. Our body is his temple. When you say public prayer for food and abundance of food came together from everywhere, that is God and prayer working in people. Prayers do work. More importantly, we need to form our mind to leave room for God and understand his way so when we pray, it is God answering our prayer.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k I think George would have understand you most. One of his message is that George will send His Spirit upon us to guide us. This is George living in us. Our body is his temple. When you say public prayer for food and abundance of food came together from everywhere, that is George and prayer working in people. Prayers do work. More importantly, we need to form our mind to leave room for George and understand his way so when we pray, it is George answering our prayer.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 If George is what people believe is God's name, I won't have objection on it. What important isn't His name, but what He stands for. My message is that prayer works. It is just not how you explained it should. Because we believe in these things, prayer works. If you are the only person that believe, prayer will work in you. You will be God's hand and feet that do His work. And because He meant well for the world, all you will do is for the betterment for the world.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
Good grief. Then say George teaches that Jesus is not a true god, but George is. Do you not see that your magical thinking has NO BORDERS. You can pop anything you wish into it and it "works" EXACTLY THE SAME! Logic and critical thinking DO NOT WORK THAT WAY because they deal in truth, and there cannot be a variety of truths in objective reality. Prayer does not work. You are redefining "work" in a way such that it is meaningless. Try to use "work" this way in another context--you can't.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 It is like you believing in logic and critical thinking. They are your God. Therefore, all the work you do will reflect what that God. I'm not saying I don't believe in logic and critical thinking, I just believe that there are more than just logic and critical thinking. They can both exist together. Science filled world doesn't need to exclude God that stands for love, justice, mercy, hope, etc. The question will boil down to is which God is the highest?
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You have no grounds to say god and critical thinking can both exist together, since you do not understand what critical thinking is. If you did, you'd realize that believing things for which there is insufficient evidence is contrary to critical thinking. Moreover, logic and critical thinking are not my "god"--I don't have to have faith in them, because we have EVIDENCE THAT THEY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, and we also have evidence that god belief DOES NOT.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 Not everyone can live by testing things before they do them. Sometimes you have to just believe in something (not blindly) and do what is prescribed and decide if it is true. Perhaps it is not as you think the result should be, but they are prescribed so that you can be saved from yourself as we might not know what is best for us if we only depend on what we know.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k I can see I am making no head way here. Let me try this approach: say I believe that demons are pushing all objects around me toward the earth, and that without these demons no object would fall toward the earth, and that the intelligence of these demons can be seen by the consistency of all falling objects, and that the fact that these demons are invisible, intangible, and unknown by us means that we should believe they are real. HOW WOULD YOU FIND OUT IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT?
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "Not everyone can live by testing things before they do them." Everything we do is a test, and testing doesn't require us to do the test ourselves...it just requires us to open our eyes and use our brains. Moreover, you still cling to the notion that there must be guarantees in life. THERE ARE NOT. If you decide riding an ATV without a helmet is a good idea, and you kill yourself, you'll never ride an ATV without a helmet again. The smart will learn vicariously to wear helmets.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 The knowledge in the bible is beyond just wearing helmet. It tells us what we need to focus our mind to to be able to live a good life. Living longer shouldn't be our ultimate goal since every human dies physically. There has to be something more important than that. Things like making sure our species survive long term. All creature are designed to have this in mind or they won't survive generations after generations.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "Things like making sure our species survive long term." Survival long term is very much something we can test for and observe--behaviors that lead to functionality, surviving, and even thriving. Why is it that the countries with the least belief in god have the best factors for society health? Do you not see that relying on reason and evidence (ignoring all supernatural claims) directly helps you survive and thrive? Depending on supernatural claims of any kind DOES NOT.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 But do you know why we have the need to survive? Who put it in us? (we don't know, some call God) What would happen to us if we ignore this instinct? (uneasy feeling, regrets, anxiety) What happen if we follow this instinct? (relief, happiness, joy) Can we categorize those feeling to hell and heaven? (maybe) Can we categorize a place where people hate and distrust each other hell? (yes) And the opposite full of love and mercy be heaven? (sure)
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You are embarrassing yourself with ignorance. 1) We don't "need" to survive; in fact, we all die eventually. 2) Our drive to survive is a part of evolution and biology; it is found in all creatures, not just humans, and I'm sure you wouldn't say a spider has a soul put in it to survive. 3) If someone is born without a drive to survive, or with dangerous tendencies...they die before they can have more children. Cont...
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k I want you to think about survival for a moment, and our general drive to survive. It isn't absolute. Some people have characteristics that are reckless and dangerous, some people are born dead, etc. Now consider the two of us, you and I. How many of our ancestors, going back as long as you wish, survived long enough to have offspring? ALL OF THEM! And can you not see that that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival, such as wanting to survive, now TENDS to be in us?
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 Not a grammar nazi, but the line where you stated:
"...And can you not see that that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival..." - in this instance if you feel you need two "that"'s back to back, then just use ONE "that". e.g.
"...And can you not see that is why the characteristics that lead to their survival..."
This is much better.
CrudOMatic 8 months ago
I preferred the two "thats" because with one "that", the reading becomes ambiguous after the "that" because it could be either a demonstrative pronoun with the antecedent being (in this case) the previous idea that all his ancestors survived long enough to reproduce, OR the introduction of a relative clause which doesn't become clear without a second or third consideration. With two "thats", both of them are made clear and the meaning of the sentence flows without meaningful disruption.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 Maybe I went too far on the last two. But you get the idea where I'm going here? Some of this concept are based on logic but easier to understand to those that don't have as structured and as logical thinking as you are. People will only understand after they follow the commandments on their daily life. Having said that, you have to discern whether the religion (or more importantly the leader) you are following is consitent with this true God.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "have to discern whether the religion (or more importantly the leader) you are following is consitent with this true God."
and how do you know the god is true? there are many gods throughout history. You just do not believe in them because you were raised in a time when they were unpopular. If you lived 3000 years ago, you probably would have believed in some ancient gods... would you be in hell because of that? The notion that you NEED god to live a great life is so false...
shadesters 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You don't follow the ten commandments, nor the other 613 laws. You know how I know that? They are idiotic, inconsistent, and many are illegal. Are you aware that the final draft of the 10 Commandments in Exodus 34 bear no resemblance to what people CALL the "ten commandments"? Have you read your bible? In the earlier version (the familiar ones) most of the commandments have NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALITY!
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@xdragon2k "Science filled world doesn't need to exclude God that stands for love, justice, mercy, hope, etc" You can have all those things without a notion of god, which makes god useless. "The question will boil down to is which God is the highest?" Not even god can break the laws of logic. But if you say he can, then the highest god is the god which can create the universe and everything in it while simultaneously not existing. THAT god would be the most powerful.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
Although I am an Atheist that believes in evolution, it is true that Darwin was mentioned in many speeches during World War 1, and the common argument was, that if the strongest are suppose to survive, then the weak should die, so there should be a war to prove that we (the nation of the speaker) are the dominant people.
Evolution has it's dangers too.
DarkestLaugh 8 months ago
@DarkestLaugh No it doesn't. People who take a description of natural processes and twist it into a prescriptive IDEOLOGY has its dangers, as do all ideologies (evolution is not an ideology). "Social Darwinism" is nonsense that has no relation to evolution, and "fittest" has nothing to do with strongest, richest, biggest, smartest, etc--it means FITTEST, which ONLY means that which is capable of surviving. Evolution requires VASTLY longer time periods than Social Darwinism even considered.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
Consider this, your parents get married and have a child, you. During the first year of your life, your parents lose their jobs. Losing hope and not wanting to sacrifice their lifestyle, they decided to sacrifice you instead. The plan is to stage an accident that killed you and fool the law enforcement. There is no punishment to be feared. However, since they believe in God, out of fear or respect, they decided to forgo kiling you and live in smaller house instead. Did God fail to protect?
xdragon2k 9 months ago
@xdragon2k If my parents only refrain from killing me out of fear of god, they are psychotic and have identifiable brain disease. Moreover, if the underlying assumptions in this scenario were true, those who DON'T believe in god would be killing people, stealing, doing drugs, etc, and yet they don't in near the proportion as believers. What stops them? We have entire COUNTRIES that have millions of nonbelievers that are doing just fine.
greyeyed123 9 months ago
@greyeyed123
don't bother reasoning with theists. Nobody can help them, except themselves.
sammygee17 9 months ago
What ticks me off is the exact OPPOSITE of this scenario has been seen many, many times. How many times have we turned on the news to find some parent who killed their kids because they thought the rapture was coming, or because they wanted their children to be with god? Even the Virginia Tech. shooter had a mother who saw his psychotic behaviors as an indication of demonic possession rather than mental illness, so she sought religious help instead of psychological--how'd that turn out?
greyeyed123 9 months ago
@greyeyed123 I'm sorry, I was responding to someone else that asked to prove God's existence in scientific terms.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k Are you claiming such evidence cannot exist? If so, what basis do you have for believing in a very specific kind of god? Moreover, if god does not manifest in reality in any way, then he is indistinguishable from nothing. Consider this: what would a universe look like which WASN'T created by a god (Christian, deist, or otherwise)? If such a universe looks exactly like this one, then you are just making stuff up and declaring it is true based literally on nothing.
greyeyed123 8 months ago
@greyeyed123 I believe in Jesus because I can discern Jesus's intentions which he claims to be God's will and it is not to seek to destroy but to ensure we have lives. There are many false God before him that claim to grant us material goods and comfort but cares not of the health of our soul by sacrificing others. Until science can discern the intention of the creator (that's a whole other topic) that states otherwise, I will believe in Him.
xdragon2k 8 months ago
@xdragon2k You do realize this is magical thinking, and can be used to "validate" anything imaginable. Don't you care to use a method that can actually, and intellectually honestly, distinguish what is true from what is not? Moreover, YOU CANNOT DISCERN Jesus's intentions! If you could, all Christians would agree on what those intentions are. They don't, which is why there are 30,000 denominations! When something is based on nothing but human imagination, it splits like this.
greyeyed123 8 months ago