Free to Choose Part 6: What's Wrong With Our Schools Featuring Milton Friedman

[toneeeeeee]

The discussion on informed decisions is interesting. Less than 15 years after this series was filmed, the computer and internet revolution was a entrepreneurial and private market masterpiece, and almost instantly, information was made so cheap and available that even the most poverty stricken individual is capable of gathering sought-out information. This double talk is no longer valid from politicians and Friedman's point is made.

[torgyman]

Welcome back to another episode of Milton Friedman vs. the Control Freaks!

[Earthbjorn]

@bsabruzzo

agreed.

I currently have a 3 yr old and I am so nervous about choosing a school for her. My experiences with public schools were average at best. I was lucky to go to the only "Exemplary" rated public elementary in my district, but was forced to go to an "Acceptable" Junior High and High school.

[skydome29]

16:30 why is education different than food, or environment? This guy is promoting exceptionalism to keep his authority and legitimize his job.

[hokieneer17]

oh 44:25 is really good.

[hokieneer17]

43:30 that is all

[bsabruzzo]

So, the "best" students leave a bad school and go to a good school and get a better educatiom. The "worst" students are left in the bad school, which must now focus on those students without holding back the "best' students, allowing the remaining students to improve from the added attention and consentrated schooling.

I don't see the problem with improving the education of both sets of students. Where is it?

[Earthbjorn]

I really like your point. If there are indeed difficult children who need extra attention, it would be best to have a school that specializes in difficult children. Our district had what we called an "alternative center" to where the schools would send problem students that misbehaved. So even the public schools send problem children away. These special education schools can then get special funding for the special needs children.

[bsabruzzo]

@Earthbjorn "If there are indeed difficult children who need extra attention, it would be best to have a school that specializes in difficult children"

Right. If the children have learning disabilities, they need more intense attention. And, as shown by Friedman, a school for "bad students" isn't a prison full of criminals. It offers different teaching methods which improve the students grades and give them a better chance after graduation.

[bsabruzzo]

I wonder where these "all white" markets are that won't let minorities in to buy food...

It's been how many years (decades) since this video and markets have had this free-choice opperation for grocery stores. Where are those "white-flight" stores? Do they really prevent blacks from buying bread or milk?

Heck Food Lion has three brands to cater to all wage earners (Bloom for the rich, Bottom Dollar for the low-wagers). The food's the same. A tomato is a tomato. And cthe ustomers are everybody.

[bsabruzzo]

Did the one guy at 37:30 actually say he was afraid people would leave bad public schools and go to better schools? Isn't that the point? With the voucher system, if all that's left is the bad public school, there are two choices: the people who are left leave for a better school or work to make the bad school good.

Really, his concern is that a school working under one set of rules works and the schools under the government strick regulated rules is bad?

Wow.

[jeankouya]

Milton you are the best!

[THERepublic1971]

As we watch this video in present day we can see how wrong these men are with exception to Milton and the man from California.

The NEA and the AFT are a waste. The AFT rep. is not interested in the quality of education and competition because he only cares about job security. His opinion on education policy is not worth listening to because his goal is teacher job security period. He will fight ever attempt to take teachers into a private system and away from the mandated dues.

[THERepublic1971]

At 34:35 Friedman asks that man a great question. Great job Milton. Some of these men do not like the voucher system because it challenges the public system. They don't want to be challenged. The state and federal government are trying to perpetuate a monopoly. I feel for them because they are fighting for a product but they are simply wrong in educational and economic principle. The great thing about Milton is he is an intellectual egghead but the man thinks objectively to the real world.

[jedivish]

Today most people in America, weather it be Republicans or Democrats, largely agree that cutting down on government spending by getting Rid of such government led initiatives such as Dept. of Education, Medicare and others is not only necessary to reduce Govt Debt. But that by doing so, they would in fact, largely improve the conditions for Education, health care etc that government intervention (with all good intent) has been unable to do.

[jedivish]

But its quite shocking that a man as educated as Mr McKenzie appears to be, in his role as moderator seems to cut Milton of at the end of every series practically not allowing him to have fair time to refute the numerous illogical and often dogmatic and repressive points raised by the opposition.

[jedivish]

It is truly disturbing the way Robert McKenzie does not allow Milton to respond to the arguments thrown at him in a logical way. As it is, Its difficult to take on 5 separate individuals in an intellectual and ideological debate of such nature as is presented in this entire 10 part series.

[Illyrien]

Perhaps we should have a Board of Bakers and whenever you go into a bakery or supermarket, then the local union baker will provide us with the bread he thinks we should have...

[Racearn]

It´s fucking insane how hard it is to move to the US, and I´m a Swedish citizen.

If I wanna move there I need to try my luck and join the green card lotery.

[GuilhermePottker]

@Racearn you are SWEDISH and want to go to US???

Ladies and Gentleman: Scandinavia isn't a model anymore! Nobody can use it to attack free market system anymore!

[MrDonneiDarko]

I'm black I want to go to an all white school. I want some reparation from in between white bitches legs and deprive her of having white children and I hope he gets sickle cell and aids so her dad kills himself

[MrDonneiDarko]

end forced integration

[mcufre]

@MrDonneiDarko It's funny, basically the whole problem with America were and still are the non whites who in their majority simple fail to struggle enough to overcome their small handicaps and make something for themselves. I went to public schools in America and the problem are not the schools, the problem are the kids, and not because they're poor, but because they're unwilling.

[sethisawesome]

@mcufre I can't believe anyone would ever suggest that a child is solely responsible for his or her situation.

[Mackberserk]

@sethisawesome His parent is responsible for his or her situation, to teach him/her about values such as respect, perseverance, responsibility, etc. and to prepare him for real life (off the tit). Why should I be forced (through taxation) to become responsible for that child, and why when a person like myself doesn't want to be a slave to others (his upbringing) does that mean I'm supposedly dispassionate? If I want to VOLUNTARILY help, then I'll be charitable.

[MrDonneiDarko]

this fat cog at 31:44 is full of BS

[SkepticThink]

Government must be decentralized and people's freedom respected

[9P9T6]

do English people still have w lisps like that headmaster in Kent? Haven't heard anyone with one for years. Never hear them in the US. It's a shame that this debate really hasn't changed much (at least for primary and secondary education) on either side of the Atlantic since this program was made. Generations of kids have been through school since then.

[llangennith]

Simple proof. President Obama sends his children to private schools using his public pay. And the moron is funded by public teachers unions!

[mcufre]

@llangennith LMAO

[groam6666]

It's funny, all these socialists talk and rail about poverty and helping the poor, but they mention very little about how they can help the poor. They just want to keep their captive audience along with their jobs.

Overall, America has a paternalistic government now.

[RIGHTSIDEUPBLOG]

@groam6666 I'd say it's more like fascist

[Mackberserk]

@RIGHTSIDEUPBLOG Despite all the shouting and whining about "police state", the U.S. is still a fair distance from something like fascism or communism. The Soviet Union or Nazi Germany are real, brutal examples of police states, which is nothing like the freedom we still hold here.

[26Francis92]

Is there nowhere to watch the rest of the discussion? Every time it starts getting interesting we have to "leave it there"

[startwiththeballs]

that combover is...is stunning

[monkeywolf]

@startwiththeballs It turns his wife on.

[jetrpg22]

(Hahah) "your dead wrong", Blahh blahh blahh. New Orleans, Boston, Oakland, etc. all are proving this guy wrong. The private and charter schools are taking everyone and accomplishing what is considered IMPOSSIBLE in a public school.

So, the result, the actual result has once agian show MF the victor. Remember these experts are here becuase they are experts in bad policy.

[jetrpg22]

MORE MONEY WILL FIX IT. WEll in the last 20 years we pushed so much money into the system that it should be fixed and fixed again three times over. ... Where did the money go? To hire more administration, build fancier buildings, and pay teachers more than nurses and give them benefits worth 2-3 times more then nurses. Cheer , wait what were the results... worse performance.

Actions , ideals, and policies; change directions; not money.

[jetrpg22]

History shows MF correct again.

History on every topic shows him right... yet we still don't listen... hmmmm.

One could guess that maybe the entire populas just hasn't been educated on what has been said and what actually occurred .... that couldn't be after all we have this wonderful public education system in the US.

[dtmoura]

@jetrpg22 - Unfortunately people don´t listen because politicias dont get re-elected by following what he says. Only by granting favours to a particular group in society one is elected or re-elected. Unfortunately the incentives of the current democratic political system does not align fully with what MF bravely teachs us.

[jetrpg22]

@dtmoura

This is so true. So what that actually means, is this is the system people want.

We have stopped caring about liberty.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -TJ

This seems drastic .... seeing as today we are not even willing to vote for a different party.

democratic political system - AKA THE PEOPLE.

Its a sad time but also a good time.

[classiclibertarian]

The only real difference between then and now is that we've thrown several more billions of dollars at education and unions have become far more powerful. Test scores have remained largely flat since then. Any correlation?

[classiclibertarian]

A lot of this stuff is still true today. One of thing things that is often ignored by both sides of this argument is that area affluence can directly influence test scores through ability to hire tutors. That is often why suburbs do better than the inner-city. Union arguments are meaningless. Getting the market involved in education and/or using a voucher system can and does improve educational quality and lessen the need for private tutors.

[Mezey5]

I find it hard to understand who could be against school choice. I'm not talking about special interest, i mean the bleeding heart liberals.

[penguinistas]

16:45 that head master is another bureaucratic snob and wants to push his agendas without oversight from parents.

[immozelle]

Hey, I went to McCollum for a year  in the mid 70's. The sight of the hills brings me back.

[MrConservative608]

I even have an answer for if someone would want to go to law or medical school. Get an associates degree in something maybe in the medical industry if you want to become a doctor or a bachelor degree from a community college in being a paralegal because you want to eventually be a lawyer. Work full-time in what skills that associates degree gave you, live on less than you make so you can afford to go to a better college part-time.

[MrConservative608]

Let me expand on #1 & #3. I believe the education bubble of college graduates ending up as bar tenders and cab drivers when they have masters degrees is because those students loans allowed students not to care about the quality of their educations. Also, if students work & save their own money ahead of time, do you think they would care then? About college costing so much, do you think that maybe some would lower their prices if applications fell 60%?

[MrConservative608]

In Higher Education, I believe it will be hard for professors to be liberals if 3 things happen. #1. Parents do NOT save for their children's education but instead offer that they can live at home & work full-time during the summer to pay for tuition & books, part-time the rest of the year. #2. Pell Grants be eliminated & not 1 student take out student loans. #3. One thing that happens in a free market is that consumers set prices therefore colleges will be forced to comply with market prices.

[supahsekzy]

@MrConservative608  Man that's a damn good point. I never thought about that.

[MrConservative608]

@supahsekzy Thank you. I believe that long term borrowing is one thing that interferes with the free market (though is part of it in a way).

Also, if colleges were a free market w/o loans or grants, I suspect professors' feet would be put to the free market forces thereby making them think about their political positions seriously. College admissions like to brag 1 out 4 applications (or whatever) are accepted to this college, implying the brightest come here. Imagine applications dropping.

[supahsekzy]

@MrConservative608 While I agree with the effect of loans and grants on colleges, I still think that it would be in the interest of free market overall not to interfere with loans and grants provided that: 1. they're in no way subsidized by govt, and 2. the companies making these loans are subject to the same repercussions as anyone else as dictated by free market.

[MrConservative608]

@supahsekzy I completely agree. I was talking about a voluntary cultural change not any government regulation or law being created.

[supahsekzy]

@MrConservative608 Dude what the hell happened to apprenticeship?? lol

[hokieneer17]

@supahsekzy I'd like to see more apprenticeships, but employers have to rely on the school systems to train workers now, it's sad. there should be a below-min wage pay where employers can take on apprenticeships for 12-24 months to learn a skill. I think a lot of professions would benefit from this. In 2 years I could easily acquire on the job skills to be a teacher, a social worker, an electrician, chef; basically anything but complex math/science/physics/etc.

[supahsekzy]

@MrConservative608  Such a change would be in the right direction IMO because you'd still see that drop of applications, and the interest rates and lending habits of those loaning the money as well as tuition prices would adjust themselves accordingly. And that way you're not burdening other taxpayers with the cost of your education.

[skinnypalewhite]

when will this discussion ever involve the direct responsibility of parents?

[madscientistify]

interesting these teachers that in all their arguments have nowhere mentioned the importance of parents to be involved in the schooling of their children

[308mmm]

What a sorry bunch of bureaucrat losers! They are terrified of competition because they know they suck, and they desire to keep on sucking!

[77doodlebug]

It's amazing how 30+ years later we're still discussing the same things. This is what the whole "waiting for superman" documentary is about. Holding parents and teachers accountable for the education of our children. No wonder we have so many problems, when problems take more than 30 years to fix.

[MahdiL]

...children, or in other words, it makes teachers take on the roles and responsibilities of parents, which simply isn't fair on the teachers. Teachers can, by and large, maintain discipline in their classrooms, but the overall behaviour of a child is not the responsibility of a teacher or a group of teachers, but rather that of his or her parents. Parents should not be allowed to sit back and think that it's someone else's job to raise their children. The teachers' job is to educate.

[MahdiL]

What surprises me is that no one talks about the role of parents in disciplining their children. If certain children have such bad behaviour that no school wants them, then the parents would be compelled to take responsibility and make sure that their children do have good enough behaviour to be accepted at some school. What state monopoly schooling does, and I know this as a former teacher in the UK, and from a family of teachers, is that it makes teachers take on more of the burden of raising

[addyr100]

lol when he showed the clip of the private school all the kids were white

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

But hospitals make their money by taking on the unhealthy. The healthy by definition, don't go to hospitals. That said, with a co her system, a savvy business man would open up a school specifically designed to help those problem children. And via trial and error and competition with similar schools helping problem children a better system would be revealed. It's akin how blind kids how to go to a school for the blind

[Rensune]

Can a child not be expelled due to his behavior? In my hometown there is a school (government provided, of course) whose explicit purpose is to take the troublemakers. What leg does the public school have left to stand on?

[MrDevong]

We know better than the parent lol

[Tehbeefer1]

How higher education has changed. I suspect easy credit and socially induced demand, coupled with general governmental meddling are responsible for rocketing tuition. "Otherwise I'd be paying over $12,000!" Current/year price is $55,000 according to their website. 

[meghaljani]

@Tehbeefer1 count for inflation.

[MartinDHash]

How is discussing a college's financing applicable to public schools? How is guilting donors part of the Adam Smith's "invisible hand"?

[MartinDHash]

What happens to the children that are difficult to teach? If they are expelled, where do they go? How many children (as a percentage) can be expelled?

[Gold3nStat3KiD]

@MartinDHash well, guess what? thats money! im sure youll have a couple of multimillionaires willing to invest for children with exactly what their struggling with. instead of going to a public school where they put troubled kids in a very ineffeicient class called "special education", almost like the "trash bin" on your desktop.

[MartinDHash]

@Gold3nStat3KiD "couple of multimillionaires willing to invest for children" -- Do you mean like a tax on multimillionaires? Are you a multimillionaire? You speak pretty confidently about what multimillionaires want? Are you a product of the "trash bin"?

[Gold3nStat3KiD]

@MartinDHash shut your emotional ass up! naturally where ever money can be made, millionaires will be wlling to INVEST! what part of invest do you not get?! the problem with the school system today is that it is too systematic and has no quality of service to it whatsoever. i mean what makes you think that our school system is doing good? ITS NOT! government today is way too big and Friedman's ideas have never been fully implemented.

[Gold3nStat3KiD]

@MartinDHash (continue) ever since the great deprression america has been growing government simply out of fear. after WWII, came the cold war which lasted for a long time and many other wars during those times in south america and other places and as a result military and government has been growing. corruption today has nothing to do with free enterprise, corruption comes from Washington being too big too fail! if government was limited corporations would have to answer straight to us!

[torgyman]

@MartinDHash They go to your school, the one you opened because you care so much about disadvantaged children. Good exists, you might be some solid proof of it and the marketplace would reward you for good service.

[torgyman]

@MartinDHash They go to your school, the one you opened because you care so much about disadvantaged children.