12-12 Eckankar -VS- Christianity - DEBATE

[sonofatellus]

Yo, Skysplash. Thanks for the great upload.

[Chopinsnocturnes]

Also, Ankerberg is ludicrous in his analogies. He needs a good college logic course. The man who challenged Ankerberg had a valid idea and Ankerberg wouldn't even allow him to finish. I never could stand Ankerberg. He's so pompous. Pompous for Jesus.

[Chopinsnocturnes]

I have to agree that Mr. Ankerberg is biased. His interviewing technique is far from fair as he doesn't allow Darwin Gross to finish a thought. Also, his re-translation of the New Testament passage "The Kingdom of God is within you" is hilarious. Tell that one to the King James Only version folks. I heard where there was a debate on his program between KJV onlyers and others who support modern Bible versions (Ankerberg's position). One of the modern supporters lost his voice on the show.

[Itellforth]

Take a hit of 50 times salvia....its netcar of the Gods.

[dmcarden]

But even in the "christian" discipline, there are so many branches, all conflicting in some form or other, with each other. His whole interviewing style is invalid.

[creativevirgo12]

another host with lip-smackie peanut butter mush mouth...that sound when beginning to speak........like mouth is in need of moisture...Martha Stewart does it too much...David Wilcock... and many an amateur video maker...the sound that is similar to indignation " dsk"

[matizaph]

Duality and non duality are only different based upon our perspective, and both are valid to ones experience only to the point that it advances us spiritually.Religions are like clothing. When you outgrow one you may need another system to embrace. Many Christians will change churches because of the limitations in doctrine. H.P Blavatsky put it best "There is no religion higher than truth.

[mr1000rx]

Truth is an experiential path beyond the worlds of time and space and indeed the mind. One can't describe the indescribable using the mind. It's annoying but truth has a way of being so sometimes.

I am an eckist of over 25years. May the Blessings Be.

[ssls1100]

Skysplash - you've been drinking too much kool-aid. There is no stream of logic here, just dogma.

[uncasist]

This moderator is quite intelligent , neither of his guests really address his points or have very strong arguements.

[olympic66power]

you notice the king james version to a another translation was offered in this debate changing the verse meaning the of the king of God is with in to something different in meaning i see as decieve

[Saffiros]

Stupid! The New Age isn’t a religion! It isn’t some organization with a conspiracy to take over the world or bring the anti-christ! It’s a natural result, a widespread current of people here and there emerging from deep dark ignorance held in sway from centuries of fundamentalism and lack of information. We are in an age of globalization and learning and people are searching for God in a global way. There will be errors along the way, but over time we will all come closer to God’s Love

[HolyBio]

that guy is a dush bag, and he isn't let anyone talk lol

[anthony5890]

christianity says god breathed life into adam so adam is walking around with part of god in him no different than source teachings that we came from the source. christians also have trouble with and want to demonize people like edgar cayce the man was real and he was not talking to demons the bible talks about a 1st, 2nd, and a 3 heaven. and not fearing the second death christianity removed reincarnation from the bible so they could charge people for forgiveness there is money in fear of death

[anthony5890]

yes investigate jesus he is the truth the way the life but much more than what christians say he is they or man has put him in a box he said if you seen me you have seen the father meaning he was god and that we are god to he said the things i have done you will also and greater things even. he came to show us that to forgive is freedom but christians are some of the most unforgiveing people i have ever met he taught love concores a mutitude of sin but christians turn there back on you in need

[anthony5890]

john wants to think that as an apoligist he is so smart in proving his bible is the only truth. but he is very selective in his reasoning this is his show. what opened my eyes is the discovery channel and christian scholars ingnor these shows as if they are not there because christianity has become big business and a club for bigots and racist and stupid people who in johns own words ignor the facts. take the bible in the creation story it was plagorised from a document that a 1000yr older

[anthony5890]

is there good and evil i would have to go with yes the universe tells us there is positive and a negative but they will balance each other out to a sense one will never win over the other. it is dangerous to tease evil just as it is dangerous to drive a 130 miles per hour. thats not to say you should be afraid because you do have ways to protect yourself. and jesus is a huge one as master that was his thing. i believe in what he came to teach us not so much in man distorted bible

[anthony5890]

john wants to prove his idea of god is real and even if you showed him proof that his god is real but the reality of his god really has been distorted by man. he would choose as many christians do to believe in the distortion and thats because of the heart or falling in love with jesus experience which is good but and experience none the less

[latinamega17]

:s they invited him to the show to make him look like hes wrong?, its all about that, divine love

[demondagger19]

This is false teaching at it's best.

[ali404040]

@colinwired

jesus did noy die for our seen! he was a great master

human shoud learn to be responsible not escaping from reposibility because he died

he tought you to be responsible like him

but its hard thats why christians perefer to think that jesus died for their sin and ye now they are free lets do what ever they like!

its stupid idea!

[ali404040]

this idiot john do not let the master gross speak...

[gettogohome]

I was asked to sell over 140 tapes on ECK and about 14 ECK type music tapes. They have Sri Paul Twitchell Sri Harold Klemp in the lot where would be a good place to sell them and what price range for them is good. They are dated mid to late 60's on.

[gettogohome]

I was asked to sell over 140 tapes on ECK and about 14 ECK type music tapes. They have Sri Paul Twitchell Sri Harold Klemp in the lot where would be a good place to sell them and what price range for them is good. They are dated mid to late 60's on.

[DhunamiCE]

An individual must determine for themselves, and not be swayed emotionally or mentally without going to the Temple within, and knowing for himself, the balance in the world. Pantheism is that God is to the Universe as Ocean is to water drops in it.

The ocean is society and all life, all life is spark of the energy of God.

[pat52010]

On big difference between Eckist and Christianity is that Eckist don't say your going to burn in hell if you don't believe.  Even many Christians disagree amongst themselves. I believe as the Eckist do; that is that there are many spiritual paths, it's just that Eckist find through the soul travel experience...A very affirming experience of eternal life.

[amgineco]

@pat52010 Look up YouTube video "Life After Death ?" it deals w/ the very REAL stories of people DYING and SEEING H E L L ! Do the research.. don't o there. he scripture is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT..

[pat52010]

@amgineco You must then be assuming that every single thing written in the New Testament is the absolute word of God. And which bible would you have us believe; The King James Version, or some other version. To top it all off, we must then rely on the pastors, preachers, reverends, fatthers, etc to interpret the bible. Whom are we to believe? Which religion is the true path to God? Christianity? Judaism? Buddhism? Hinduism?

[soleillullaby]

Each person has his own path. Whatever works for him now is probably at this time what he needs to learn. I have BEEN a devout Catholic/Christian and I tell you that as I child I knew that I am bound to take another lesson---a different path from where I have been. You see. This world is in chaos because people think they're better than the other because they're in that religion. I intend no hate to everyone. Respect and space and don't try to push people with your beliefs.

[MJimiD]

Worth noting: Early Christianity and even certain Jewish orthodoxy at once held belief in reincarnation.

[NylaRossini]

There are just soooo many contradictions in this Eckancar cult for anyone to gamble their eternal soul and follow its so called teachings!

Bless you for posting

[pat52010]

@NylaRossini If logic is used, there is very little chance involved. But what your saying is that your placing a bet that Christianity is a safer bet? And I would say to you that there is also alot of contradiction in Christianity and any other religious institution, precisely because of Human interpretation/intervention. Personally I prefer to refer to God as the Creator(Grandfather) as the Native American Indians do! To me and intermediary makes no sense.

[ali404040]

@pat52010

you are right man

this idiot show ma just memorise the bible he dont have any spriritual wisdom

everybody should learn to be responsible about their action jesus is not responsible for our sin he just thought us to be responsible about our deeds

[arsh09mathaon]

the guy in blue suit with microphone. had that (bad one) experience because he went to wrong man so called Sai Baba.

[Maniak5100]

Why does he even go into this debate?

. I never got much from the outer core of Eckankar. It is in the meditations.

[DavidKuhn83]

i like the Videos. tks too the Uploader

[endunamis]

Truth by it's very definition is exclusive.

[captck13]

Eckankar -VS- Christianity ???? On previous Eckankar states they are Christians however now there is a debate???

Come on people there is only one GOD. Man is NOT GOD, if so why fear death or why worry.

Just kill yourself and start over.....Read the BIBLE.

[MJimiD]

@captck13 Why fear death period? You shouldn't. I don't believe either explanation of existence, but in pantheism, you don't just 'kill yourself and start over' because every life should be used as an opportunity to further yourself. If someone says, "Well, it doesn't matter because I'll just start over," they're missing the point. The point is forgiveness. You should strive for betterment, always, but ultimately, pantheists believe that sometimes, it takes some multiple lives to 'transcend'.

[worryphree]

Evil=live backwards. Does it make you more alive in all ways, or does it make you less alive? Do the one that makes you more alive. Arguing makes me feel less alive.

[ApostleRonAshDD]

Ah...debate...what a worthless video this is. A fool and his microphone are soon parted.

[apathy7170]

The guy in the blue suit has the Truth of the Word of God, not man's truth which is fed by the god of this earth, those that cannot see that are blind.

[burkebryant]

I would have ripped a new one in the guy with the mic and blue suit. What a close minded man.

[yarachim1]

HELLO !!! He says Jesus used the Greek word Entos (as opposed to Esso). But JESUS WAS NOT A GREEK ....so why would he have used a Greek word at all? Jesus's words were translated into Greek from the original ARAMAIC, within which a whole different world view arises to the one we have inherited from the Greeks translations. Big subject, but something to be borne in mind before making comments on what words Jesus actually used.

[BarbaraJean26]

Darwin Gross is a very highly developed soul. You can see him during meditation and in the dream state. He is a very high spiritual guide. He goes way beyond this world.

[Sanasuke435]

PEOPLE AS BUDA SAID: The truth is coming from inside of us EACH ONE OF US is going to find their own path to get to GOD...we have to respect anad love the ones who do not think like us cause at the end all the religions GET US TO GOD! (=

[eckyspondoolie]

The good thing about Eckankar is it has a Living Eck Master at all times.

It is an individual path. Self realisation is and individual thing that needs no proof to anyone else.

Words, books, etc are only the tool to make the inner connection.

I am an Eckist for over 25 years and it is great. Give it a look and you and you only decide.

[uche78]

You've just uttered complete nonsense. Grace has been freely given in and through Jesus Christ. You dont need some higher form of experience or some esoteric mumbo jumbo in order to lay hold of it.All it takes is having faith in the redemptive power of Jesus christ You said you've been an eckist for 25years, then i must assume you must be above forty. You must understand that every second that ticks brings closer to eternity. Throw away this false religion and accept Jesus as your Lord.

[latinamega17]

false religion?..u must respect others poitns of view..a musulman must say ur religion is the false"..each one say it..so the best its to follow ur own path wath u feel

[magbrr]

of the interview. Or let's say the individual actually met Jesus and he was in his teens 17yrs of age say t the time, that still leaves us with the notion that he was about 112yrs of age at the time of the interview. The question is how much of his story did he actually remember and how much of it were actual accounts of the activities of Jesus on a personl level and how much of it were stories that were going around at the time that he himself had heard?

[magbrr]

Luke the story in A.D 125. And that is a claim requiring proof and investigation in itself and a whole area of study. This argument stems from the realization that a child who was born at the time Jesus is said to have died would have been about exactly 125years of age by A.D 125. If we argue that Luke actually interviewed him some years before A.D. 125, about 30 years earlier say, that still leaves doubt as to whether he actully met Jesus as he would have been 95 yers of age at the time

[magbrr]

And some of the implications are that since Jesus is said to have died in his thirties or there abouts, any account given to Luke around A.D.125 or some time close to it by anyone who claimed to have met Jesus, infers that such a one must have been a toddler at the time they met Jesus and tracked him down wherever he went to monitor his activities for a story or if they were suitable adults at the time, they must have lived well over a century actually close to 2 centuries to be able to tell

[magbrr]

I think Colinwired is right. SKYSPLASH needs to do a bit of investigation here before reaching certain conclusions. None of the accounts given by Luke can be regarded as reliable even though it is purpoted to have been from those who personally met Jesus. Especially when some of this accounted documentations where first put down pen to paper at around AD125; a century and a quarter after Jesus had died. I mean there are several implications to that claim for any reasonable person to question

[colinwired]

Talking about sources, no one remembers to mention that Jesus had long associations with the Brotherhood of Essenes, and that most if not all of his idealogy and world view indeed must have come from them. No man is an island. Jesus had teachers. No one is perfect. Period!

[yarachim1]

thanks for mentioning the Aramaic !

If the 'Kingdom of Heaven' originally meant 'the Light that shines through all Creation' then for a start the whole panentheist argument looks rather more important !!! Goodness all the ancient tribes knew this long time ago, that everything is sacred and an expression of God. It's so simple ... How would Love want you to be ? ... then follow that ....

[colinwired]

Thanks Skysplash. You are right. Luke did write the Gospel of Luke, and also the disciple John. But as you said, non jewish, historian, collcting eye witness accounts. Please dont discount subjective recounting of tales by enthusiastic followers of an ideal. All in all, the gospels were eventually doctored by "approved" Alexandrian scribes. Plus Jesus must have spoken Aramaic, not Greek, so our version of gospels is something different from what must ave been written

[colinwired]

...BUT, how do you explain a spiritual leader that gets shafted in that way? Did he have any spiritual powers at all? He keeps making down-size claims, "i'm not god...(moan, moan)" etc. If he doesnt have any ability or spiritual powere, why should one follow him? Why ask for help if he cant provide any? I think we all should pray to God directly, and forsake all these self-proclaimed god-men, Mr Christ included!!!!!

[colinwired]

The downfall of paths like ECKANKAR is their non-transparency.If the leader of the movement plagiarized someone elses work, they need to own up and accept responsibility ( and get sued!!). All these Black Box religions wont work going into the next generation. This goes for Christianity as well. We've had enough of lies from all sides and dodgey organisations and movements that we cant trust. Personally in principle, I happen to think Mr Gross' view to be more liberal...

[colinwired]

Lets not forget the pain and suffering that christianity has caused due to crusades, e.g. the war in irag today!! why are we all suffering a recession? because of the lie that christians and white men are supreme, and the rest of us are scum!! thats a lie and we know it!! Unfortunately Mr Gross did not represent his beliefs well enough. It takes more than some cryptic statements to convince me that i should put all eggs in a silly subjective out of body experience! there should be something more

[colinwired]

...Also we all tend to forget a few things:

1. Christianity isnt jewish! it is a religion formulated by Rome (an oppresive Empire!) to further their own ends

2. Nothing in the Bible about the story if Jesus can be proved conclusively. Everythin is conjecture.

3. The new testament was not written by Jesus or any eye witnesses, but by a bunch of priests or scribes in Alexandria.

so what are we talking about here?

[SKYSPLASH]

Luke a non Jewish Writer and Historian carefully interviewed and Recorded actual eyewitness who met Jesus.

The Apostle John who wrote one of the Gospels the Book of Revelation and 3 Epistles also personally walked with Jesus.

More Evidence exist to the Proof of Jesus and his existence than much of history that is recorded.

[RandomTrollAccount]

@SKYSPLASH

let's see it then. all you have is hearsay from someone who "says" the met this famous guy. Just like I hear people saying they went to the first coldplay concert when there was, "like only ten people there n stuff." Get real man. For all you know the whole bible was written by one dude with a vivid imagination... shakespeare, l ron hubbard

[THETIGERMAN2012]

@colinwired wrong Ankerberg, in your midst means INSIDE!!!! Also there are older Gospels that record Jesus saying the kingdom is INSIDE YOU!!!! The kingdom is the soul and spirit. Jesus has to be given rule over each personal kingdom. Jesus said all who deny his rule will be cut off to hell. A great friend taught me this!!!

[THETIGERMAN2012]

@colinwired THERE IS GOOD AND EVIL!!!!! Why does there have to be no good or evil for things to be spiritually connected in some way we dont understand totally!!!

[THETIGERMAN2012]

@colinwired JESUS TAUGHT MYSTICAL EXPERIANCE, so why are these people fighting about it??? Ankerberg just GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!

[ali404040]

@THETIGERMAN2012

you are right man

this show man is bigot!

[ali404040]

@colinwired

jesus did noy die for our seen! he was a great master

human shoud learn to be responsible not escaping from reposibility because he died

he toght you to be responsible like him

but its hard thats why christians perefer to think that jesus died for their sin and ye now they are free lets do what ever they like!

its stupid idea!

[him1234561100]

@colinwired, Colin doesn`t is a man with an unclean heart coming up with whatever and putting his american spin on it . Don`t believe anything a fool tells you. Especially Mr. Implaccable.

[colinwired]

First off, thanks to skysplash for the videos (all 12 in series), very illuminating. Also @ jakereum, thanks for your comments (you had the clearest viewpoint of all so far). I think the biggest sin is bigotry and supremacy. It has always led us to pain and suffering. Unfortunately this seems to be the way of both talk show host and Mr Tal (former lsd user/sai baba disciple). Mr Gross prob shouldnt have been interviewed, as he confused matters, plus his opinions are NOT Eckankar...

[GeekTracker]

If you attempt the pour a steaming pot of water over my head, I will react to stop it. Why? The law of karma or cause and effect. Newton's law of physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It brings everything back to balance. Even Hitler's holocaust will be balanced out over possibly many lifetimes. Only the law of love allows you to rise above and be delivered from the back and forth motion caused by living purely by the law of karma.

[GeekTracker]

Mental Masterbation! Spirituality is above all that.

[ozartblue]

Notice the differences? One represent power, the other love. One comes from intellect, the other from the heart. One takes belief from a book, the other from personal experience. You are right: the difference is gigantic.

[babypryse]

The talk show dude is a total ass!! He's sooo biased! Talking about evil and shit...There's nothing evil about Eckankar! Its a path of divine love. I should know...I'm an Eckist...but like he said, we don't have tot prove anything...it is what it is...

[SKYSPLASH]

Mathematics's has only one outcome and if not properly calculated people can die as a Result of BAD MATH.

If the Bible is the Book on Spirituality then it being properly understood can mean the difference between Eternal L

Life with Jesus or Eternal Separation from him.

Circular Reasoning "It is what it Is" Is an empty defense.

[GeekTracker]

Can you explain the gnostic gospels and how they were written some before and after and in contradiction to some of the established beliefs of the current bible? The big question is as you state "if the Bible is the blah-blah-blah...."

Meaning if, as is likely, the "Bible is NOT the blah-blah-blah...", then you wasted your whole life believing in something when you could have been using this current life to grow spiritually. Once you feel you know something, you stop learning more about it.

[IamThatyam]

Well I'm not an Eckist but I have respected the faith for decades. I've got to tell you though, Gross makes the Jesus enthusiasts here look good because he CANNOT answer a direct question directly. Unfortunately modern Eck has yet to have an articulate leader and I'm not surprised it's grown so slowly.

[ali404040]

@babypryse

you are right man the show man is a real idiot bigot who dont let sri darwin gross speak

he is idiot parrot

[circlecityusa]

There will be no second coming as there was no first coming. Biology101: human virgins do not have babies, unless one could argue if that virgin had been artificially inseminated with sperm. Was Mary artificially inseminated with sperm? If you believe it was the holy ghost, then you might believe there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

[numberharmonics]

Love the Fit, Blind literalest... I mean, Blond literalism, I mean... If it's all inter-related then there's no right or wrong. Weird supposition... This is called a Non Sequitur, and the guy is just so chock full of 'em that I am amazed his jigsaw can stay together... Oh that's right ... That's what the fundamental belief system is for.

Then the beared guy says that this "all ios everything" is the rational for Charles Mason ... Scary Non Sequiturs.

[yopeeyo]

the kingdom of God is within you? = the conscious awareness of God and who God is, is within your own personal awareness and understanding of who God is.The kingdom and awareness and consciousness and the understanding of God is not outside of you,in a preacher ,pastor or person .But the kingdom of GOD is within you!

[Glorthac]

I hate the idea that Hindus think that those killed by Hitler had it coming to them because of bad karma from past lives. Its so horrible of a thought.

[numberharmonics]

Passive belief is a a Hindu pattern ... It leads to a lack of action to change your life.

Active Understanding frees you to act. If someone is aware of the pattern before them, they can work through it like a game of chess. If you are unaware, the train will roll over you. Get off the tracks, and you survive better, yes?

[jakereum]

I hate it when xtians think that god gave them the Americas when the truth is that such a noble lie is just a cover up for murder, theft, lies and injustice to indigious people. So they pray to jesus and that makes 500 years of genocide just nifty.

[Glorthac]

Excuse me? Did I ever kill a Native American? No, I have not. You cannot blame me for my white ancestors actions (Not to mention I'm half Micmac Native American). Blaming me for their deeds is injust.

Howsoever, if you're a Hindu as I assume, I do wonder, do you believe the Jews "got what was coming to them for deeds in their past lives"? Or was that just a blunder of misplaced kharma?

[jakereum]

I am American Indian enrolled in a fed recognized tribe. There are 400 treaties made with tribes that have been broken. Those treaties are protected and enforced by the constitution to this day yet America ignores them. White men past and present are in violation of their own laws in regards to Indian country. Hindus and American Indians have in common colonization and cultural theft of their respective lands and beliefs. Jews don't seem to care about living unlawfully on Indian lands either.

[Glorthac]

If your refering to the Jews in Israel, I've done enough research - they have the right to be there. The Palestinians are the invaders.

[jakereum]

I'm referring to the jews and other colonials here. Acculturation and assimilation are spawn of the ugly parents of genocide. Look up the experiences of Indians in the xtian boarding schools and the brain washing there.

Why as a Indian person would i need the culture of the jews or others when I have my own which is rich in spirituality and culture? Only the assimilated, the acculturated/colonized have need for such validation. Neither Jesus or his desert cult were white or of euro culture.

[Glorthac]

How dare you insult Jesus, my Lord.

[jakereum]

The eckists and the christians are both deluded. The facts are what they are.

America itself is a religion based on a lie like both xtianity and eckankar. The christians here in this video are validating based upon quoting facts and a book. They consider themselves beyond reproach. But the facts show something much different. Their history shows evil such as the xtian is trying to project onto the eckist. In the broken treaties as in xtianity, they interpret truth with a forked tounge.

[IamThatyam]

Who gives a fuck who your lord is?

[j2hsieh]

The only reason for Christians to believe in Jesus Christ NOT because we like his messages. But because it is a fulfillment of the God's prophecy and it is Truth In Reality that why We Believe in Him and in Him ALONE.

Hope that helps.

[j2hsieh]

I don't think any Jews desire to be killed in the holocaust. But it happened. I don't think any Muslim's soul desires Israel to be a country. But it happened. I dont think anyone like the idea in the last day there will be lots natural disasters in the End time, But it surely is happening and will increase even more.

[SKYSPLASH]

I am a Moth I travel toward the TRUE LITE it is Bright it is Warm It Flickers it Shines so I follow As I get Closer Such Wonder. As I enter it to it I get Burned Up it was a Camp Fire Not The Sun (SON) that Gives Life. Only if I could come back from the Dead I would tell my fellow Moth Brothers of the Truth.

[j2hsieh]

Therefore the bottom line is this:

What we put our trust is not on man, or "masters", or even ourselves. That is because reality does not equal with our desire or our trust in that desire of our soul.

Desire of your heart and soul VS reality is completely different thing.

[j2hsieh]

The main problem people have is that they pick and choose rather than acknowledging ALL the messages. Even as the messages Against the will of their Heart & Soul.

So to say that I like Jesus's teaching on Peace and Love only means All the other messages he said is not true and therefore there is no hell, no judgement, no sin, no Devil etc.

God Loves People, But Hates Sin.

We Christians don't judge people, for it is the Word that judge, not from ourselves.

[j2hsieh]

Zirrusy, 1 problem is that you are saying The Old testiment and New Testiment are different God. Thats why you said Dont mix up Jesus with the Old Testiment God.

However, Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecy and the Wrath of the Old Testiment God.

1. Old Testiment God is Real (The Final Judge)

2. He Judge According man's SIN

3. All men have sined.

4. Only Jesus Can wash away our sins.

[FoundInnerPeace]

ECKANKAR has answered all my questions on the nature of life, tuned me into divine love, and eased the feeling of loneliness. I feel connected to GOD and I don't fear death. I know the reality of my eternal essence through practice of the spiritual exercises of ECK.

May the Blessings Be.

[SKYSPLASH]

But Clearly the point has been made that Eckankar is in opposition to Christianity. The bible warns of thes false religions that find other ways into heaven. In the End on Ressurection Day You will Know if Eckankar is True or Christianity. My Faith is in Jesus alone.

[zirrusv]

EVERY religion is in opposition from another in some way, that's why it is a DIFFERENT religion. You just have to follow your heart, and the path that most speaks to who you are. For me, that is Eckankar. The period in my life that I considered myself to be really Christian was the most judgmental. That is not to say that there isn't great benefit to exploring Christianity and learning what it is in relation to your life. Everyone else doesn't have to be WRONG in order for you to be right.

[SKYSPLASH]

Double talk does not cloud the truth. 1+1=2 always. Mathematical Laws cannot be changed. Spiritual Truths cannot be Changed. Jesus said he is the Way and the Truth. THE ONLY WAY THE ONLY TRUTH. Their can be no other way into heaven but through him. Those who take place in the First Ressurection Trust in Christ Alone for their Salvation. All other Religions or athiest will have their works to be tested at Judgement and ALL WILL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. No

[zirrusv]

If you research it, you will see that it is others who said Jesus was the Son of God, and the Only Way and Only Truth. He himself said that we would do all that he does and MORE, because he realized the divinity in each and every one of us. Do you really think he would argue your point in this way, threatening hell and damnation? You are getting him mixed up with the God of the Old Testament!

[SKYSPLASH]

God Is merciful Loving full of Grace and Forgiving in both the Old and New Testament. There is no confusion. The Lie in the Garden of Eden from the Serpent is that we can all be divine and like GOD. We are warned in the New Testament this same Lie would be Propagated in the Last Days HENCE ECKENKAR.

[zirrusv]

If "God Is merciful Loving full of Grace and Forgiving", why is there such a thing as eternal damnation???

[SKYSPLASH]

Without Judgement for Sin there is no Justice. Some will rely on Jesus as paying for the Penalties for their sin others will rely on there Good works. Only those who trust in the one who could pay the Penalty will enter into the Kingdom.

[zirrusv]

justice, in the form of karma, is a natural law.

[CathPresbyter]

As a student of 'natural law theory' I must protest connecting karma or samsara, which are supernatural concepts to 'natural law.' Supernatural things go beyond the boundaries of natural law, or natural sciences, you are in the world of metaphysics then. Supernature, not nature.

[zirrusv]

I see what you are saying, but that is part of our problem, that we feel we must separate the two. I believe they are part of the same system, we just use different senses to access each.

[CathPresbyter]

No, you cannot confuse the nominal with the phenominal.  Natural Law has NOTHING DIRECTLY, I REPEAT NOTHING TO DO WITH KARMA, HEAVEN, HELL, SAMSARA, OR NIRVANA. Do not mix quantity with quality, the measurable with the intangable! If you do your arguments have no logical basis.

[numberharmonics]

The original Greek belief was the NOUMENAL becomes the Phenomenal. In other words, there is a pattern of number/energy that follows the law "As Above So Below"

Perhaps the confusion is with your understanding of this concept?

[CathPresbyter]

As a student of classics in college, I can assume you must not understand classical literature!!! Indeed the words are related, but the prefixes in greek, can change the understanding, expand or even negate its meaning. Their connection therefore lies in opposition, or in distinction. So this would refute your point, not prove it.

[SKYSPLASH]

Luke 16 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' AND WHO MADE THIS STATEMENT ?

[SKYSPLASH]

2 Thessolonians 2

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

[zirrusv]

Luke 17:21

The Kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, "Here it is" or "There it is", because the Kingdom of God is within you".

Listen, I appreciate your passion, but this discourse in unlikely to go anywhere. Please be kind to yourself!

[SKYSPLASH]

I am a Moth I travel toward the TRUE LITE it is Bright it is Warm It Flickers it Shines so I follow As I get Closer Such Wonder. As I enter it to it I get Burned Up it was a Camp Fire Not The Sun (SON) that Gives Life. Only if I could come back from the Dead I would tell my fellow Moth Brothers of the Truth.

[zirrusv]

we DO come back from the "dead", each and every one of us, many many many times...

[SKYSPLASH]

All men are appointed to die once and after this Judgement. Hebrews 9 27. We are unique Souls are not recycled. And why is it more than one person claims to be the same re incarnate spirit. Example many claim to be Jesus Re incarnated.

[numberharmonics]

And the apostles saw that this WAS Elijah

Matt 17 if I recall...

The messiah had to be Elijah, and the apostles have revealed to them that Jesus WAS Elijah.

Justinian cut almost all reference to reincarnation from the Bible... Long story but look up "Origin" and his theological arguments

[GeekTracker]

How do you know that the experience of the moth burning in the fire is not exactly what God meant for the moth? Now the moth is a butterfly in this life but it had to burn in the fire as a moth in the last in order to achieve butterflyness in this life. :)

Who are we to reason what is right for the moth, is that not God's plan for moth? Are you saying we should deny other moths the experience of their own intuition as God wired them because we are not wired that way? What arrogance of man!

[zeahbella]

I watched all.Darwin was very rounded and seems a very decent man. Tal, came across as another hell bent Christian.Was he the same strong personality when following Baba?

You can see he was most definately a priest from another age. He seems very right wing now. He avoided eye contact with Darwin which was disappointing. To me Darwin was most convincing, and a very good speaker, with a good voice, who continually stayed in emotional balance.Ben Perkins

[zirrusv]

When he was asked about the boiling water thrown on the guys head, he missed the opportunity to say that if the pourer really UNDERSTOOD that we are all interconnected, he would know that hurting the other man would be in truth hurting himself, so there would have been nothing "OK" about it!