No, acting like your comment was not meant as an insult in and of itself is just further evidence of your infantile attitude. Cambridgeshire Constabulary at its best I'm guessing?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The things you mention happening to the animals are not things you have seen, they are others accounts, which can be interpreted and blown out of Proportion. Until you have spent time on the road with the animals and there trainers you shouldn't make such accusations. At the end of the day an unhappy and injured animal would not perform, so it is everyones best interest to treat them well.
If you are genuinly concerned for their welfare,I guarantee these animals are all VERY well looked after :)
Well I know for a fact that Zippos employs a man who defended abuse at Chipperfield's circus in court. After watching footage of the thrashing and kicking of a baby chimpanzee he was asked See anything which would constitute cruelty? he replied unequivocally No". Asked if he would do the same he said Yes!
I also know that the very moderate RSPCA believe that travelling animals to the extent circuses do is not acceptable and does not meet there welfare needs.
Additionally I have seen the cows Zippos keeps and the ponies with little space to move. There was no access to water for the cow. The idea that only 'happy' animals perform is a myth and a totally unsubstantiated untruth.
I dont know who the man you are referring to is in relation to the chimp comment, so I cant comment on that. And fair point yes unhappy animals will perform sometimes, but not well. I guarantee that these animals at Zippos do not fall into that category. If they where being mistreated why have they not been shut down? And by the way Zippos Do not keep cows! so I have no idea where you got that one from lol!
The person I am referring to is artistic director David Hibling. You say that the animals at Zippos do not fall under that category how do you know this? What is your relationship with Zippos/the circus industry out of interest.
It is also wrong to assume that mistreatment is necessarily unlawful, circuses are not even as regulated as zoos who also inhibit the welfare of the animals in there care. The circus industry is predominately self regulated with a code that Hibling was key in coming up with and has no effective enforcement mechanism!
You can see the cow for yourself in the video linked to in the annotation.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Why is that relevant? This is my real account, I dont come on here often and i recently deleted all my history, thats all.
Im not out to attack you or be rude.
Let me ask you a question though cause Im interested in the chimp thing, it's the first I've heard of it. Did you see the video of the chimp abuse? and Where you In court to hear this man defend the abuse?
I was not at the trial however I know the court found Mary Cawley guilty of 12 counts of animal cruelty relating to the video shown to Hibling. For a circus to be found guilty of animal cruelty, especially in those days, shows that what they did was totally sick and sadistic beyond measure. I find it totally abhorrent that someone who defends such behaviour could work in any part of a company that deals with animals.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I wont comment on the court case as like i said i dont have any information about this. The man you mentioned infact has nothing to do with the animals at Zippos. There are two acts involving animals- Budgies and Horses and the people who present these acts are in charge of there animals and there welfare , not David. So just what are you accusing them of? What is the abuse you are accusing them of, is it there living conditions, or the performance or a particular incident you saw?
Well anyone who cares about animals would never employ a man like that with there animals around. What I am concern about generally however is that animal welfare cannot be met in a moving show, even with the most well meaning of people. As the RSPCA puts it The RSPCA opposes the use of all animals in circuses.... While being transported from site to site animals are exposed to human handling, noise, vibration, cage motion and confinement, all of which can cause considerable stress.
Zippos has been exposed by ADI for keeping horses in trailers without exercise for hours on end, ADI doesn't make this stuff up and will happily provide evidence if Zippos challenged them. The cow was also clearly scared of the circus worker, but loved us!
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Like i said i know nothing of this court hearing you mentioned, but knowing the guy and knowing that he is actually only there for the blocking and planning of the show, I would not worry.
As for transportation of the course the horses are handled and exposed to noise etc, but so is every single pet horse in the world. Do you oppose keeping pets?
The animals are not scared of there trainers otherwise they would not perform in the ring, and the reason they don't want you to see the animals
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
is not because they are abused. Do you honestly think that what they do is feed the horses every night and then whip the till the morning? Its because they care about there animals, they do not want strangers hanging about, for all they know you could hurt or distress the animals.
Put yourself in their shoes, if you had hoards of people turning up all the time effectively telling you your doing your job wrong, and generally causing trouble and agro, you wouldn't like it
I don't think circus staff are necessarily mindlessly attacking animals as they were at Chipperfields, but I would not be at all surprised if negative reinforcement were used in training. The animals were on show so it was not because they didn't want people hanging about the animals that they moved them.
If I were them and protesters came regularly to something I did I would speak to them.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
pt 3
at the end of the day its there home, and you have to respect that, you are not just turning up at the workplace, you are turning up where they live, to make a scene, and get police involved and get yourself arrested. No one wants that do they?
Im sure if you arranged a time to sit down and talk face to face with Zippos you would be pleasantly surprised, and they would probably take you a lot more seriously, because what it probably looks like to them is a bunch of students just trying
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
pt 4
to cause trouble and be controversial. The fact that you waited for them to come near, suggests to me that you obviously do no think that they are a priority and more it was just something to do. There are very few animal circus's left in UK, so there must be a reason why Zippos is one of them? They are no more powerful than any other circus that was shut down for animal cruelty.
Circus's in UK are one of the only fantastic British traditions we have left.
The fact we wait for them to come near us is not an indication of anything, it is the way the animal rights movement operates with each area looking after their own patch, it was certainly not just something to do!
The other animal circuses were not shut down for animal cruelty but gave in to public pressure and dropped animals from there acts. The law is very weak when it comes to animals in circuses. Zippos has a business model that works while using animals, we hope to make it not work.
At performance time it is just a work place and can no longer be considered simply a residence. We would be happy to meet Zippos but it won't change anything, we, like the RSPCA think circuses are no place for any animal. Our aim is not to convince Zippos its to convince the public. Zippos is a business and run for profit if they can make more money from non-animal performances they will go animal free.
It's quite surprising you have never heard of the Chipperfields' case as it is a very famous court case. 'Pet' horses are not in transit for a large proportion of the year like circus animals are. This is one of the concerns of animal welfare moderates like the RSPCA about circuses that makes them oppose all of them. 'Pet' horses will be allowed exercise to a much greater extent than Zippos horses who have been shown to have been kept in trailers for hours on end.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
pt 2 because the people who perform with these animals always put them first and tend to there every need because its there job. And there are for your information quite stringent checks on all of the animals there. i hate to be rude but the only time the animals on the show are distressed is when all you protestors turn up with your megaphones and make a scene, and i have first hand experience of this because i used to work for them.
Circuses by there very travelling nature are no place for animals. We protested against Zippos as it came near where we live, all they need do is retire there animals and we will give them our total support. Hell we will even put up posters for them!
I think he can challenge it before a judge if he wants to do so. I think he may need to show that he didn't know what he was doing when he accepted it though. I guess it depends how important it is to him whether he chooses to follow it up or not. Thanks for the support.
Hi Aran! My faith in humanity has been a little shaky lately (long story!) but finding you and learning of your efforts to stop animal abuse has restored some of my belief that there are good people in the world. I am happy that your property was returned to you and that you were not too badly injured. Please stay safe in the New Year and keep posting (and protesting). The madness of animal abuse will one day stop thanks to good, compassionate people like you! Merry Christmas! -Rob
Thanks for your kind words of support. It is nice to know there are good people all over the world fighting for an end to oppression. The only person anyone should trust is oneself and know that you, yourself, can change anything. I hope you and yours have an amazing New Year!
Thank you Aran. Of course, the wrong people were arrested, but what else is new? The world is an insane asylum, but all the human cruelty will be answered for eventually.
Hi Aran...good to see you`re still going strong!
sandbreak2 1 year ago
@sandbreak2 Thanks! Just got another case dropped as well a few days ago!
AranSPEAKS 1 year ago
Powstrzymaj cyrkowe Cierpienie!
Stop Cirkus Suffering!
cyrkportaI 2 years ago 2
Thanks for commenting
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Have you thought about seeing a decent orthodontist?
Blackpig3 2 years ago
Piss off. As if you can tell anything from my grainy video except that I have a chipped tooth which I choose not to fix. Grow up.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
No need to be abusive, was only offering some advice.
Maybe YOU ought to grow up and get some manners young man.
Blackpig3 2 years ago
No, acting like your comment was not meant as an insult in and of itself is just further evidence of your infantile attitude. Cambridgeshire Constabulary at its best I'm guessing?
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The things you mention happening to the animals are not things you have seen, they are others accounts, which can be interpreted and blown out of Proportion. Until you have spent time on the road with the animals and there trainers you shouldn't make such accusations. At the end of the day an unhappy and injured animal would not perform, so it is everyones best interest to treat them well.
If you are genuinly concerned for their welfare,I guarantee these animals are all VERY well looked after :)
tigerain 2 years ago
Well I know for a fact that Zippos employs a man who defended abuse at Chipperfield's circus in court. After watching footage of the thrashing and kicking of a baby chimpanzee he was asked See anything which would constitute cruelty? he replied unequivocally No". Asked if he would do the same he said Yes!
(Continued)
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
I also know that the very moderate RSPCA believe that travelling animals to the extent circuses do is not acceptable and does not meet there welfare needs.
Additionally I have seen the cows Zippos keeps and the ponies with little space to move. There was no access to water for the cow. The idea that only 'happy' animals perform is a myth and a totally unsubstantiated untruth.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
I dont know who the man you are referring to is in relation to the chimp comment, so I cant comment on that. And fair point yes unhappy animals will perform sometimes, but not well. I guarantee that these animals at Zippos do not fall into that category. If they where being mistreated why have they not been shut down? And by the way Zippos Do not keep cows! so I have no idea where you got that one from lol!
tigerain 2 years ago
The person I am referring to is artistic director David Hibling. You say that the animals at Zippos do not fall under that category how do you know this? What is your relationship with Zippos/the circus industry out of interest.
(Continued)
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
It is also wrong to assume that mistreatment is necessarily unlawful, circuses are not even as regulated as zoos who also inhibit the welfare of the animals in there care. The circus industry is predominately self regulated with a code that Hibling was key in coming up with and has no effective enforcement mechanism!
You can see the cow for yourself in the video linked to in the annotation.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Also why are you using an empty account rather than a real one?
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Why is that relevant? This is my real account, I dont come on here often and i recently deleted all my history, thats all.
Im not out to attack you or be rude.
Let me ask you a question though cause Im interested in the chimp thing, it's the first I've heard of it. Did you see the video of the chimp abuse? and Where you In court to hear this man defend the abuse?
tigerain 2 years ago
I was not at the trial however I know the court found Mary Cawley guilty of 12 counts of animal cruelty relating to the video shown to Hibling. For a circus to be found guilty of animal cruelty, especially in those days, shows that what they did was totally sick and sadistic beyond measure. I find it totally abhorrent that someone who defends such behaviour could work in any part of a company that deals with animals.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I wont comment on the court case as like i said i dont have any information about this. The man you mentioned infact has nothing to do with the animals at Zippos. There are two acts involving animals- Budgies and Horses and the people who present these acts are in charge of there animals and there welfare , not David. So just what are you accusing them of? What is the abuse you are accusing them of, is it there living conditions, or the performance or a particular incident you saw?
tigerain 2 years ago
Well anyone who cares about animals would never employ a man like that with there animals around. What I am concern about generally however is that animal welfare cannot be met in a moving show, even with the most well meaning of people. As the RSPCA puts it The RSPCA opposes the use of all animals in circuses.... While being transported from site to site animals are exposed to human handling, noise, vibration, cage motion and confinement, all of which can cause considerable stress.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Zippos has been exposed by ADI for keeping horses in trailers without exercise for hours on end, ADI doesn't make this stuff up and will happily provide evidence if Zippos challenged them. The cow was also clearly scared of the circus worker, but loved us!
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Like i said i know nothing of this court hearing you mentioned, but knowing the guy and knowing that he is actually only there for the blocking and planning of the show, I would not worry.
As for transportation of the course the horses are handled and exposed to noise etc, but so is every single pet horse in the world. Do you oppose keeping pets?
The animals are not scared of there trainers otherwise they would not perform in the ring, and the reason they don't want you to see the animals
tigerain 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
is not because they are abused. Do you honestly think that what they do is feed the horses every night and then whip the till the morning? Its because they care about there animals, they do not want strangers hanging about, for all they know you could hurt or distress the animals.
Put yourself in their shoes, if you had hoards of people turning up all the time effectively telling you your doing your job wrong, and generally causing trouble and agro, you wouldn't like it
tigerain 2 years ago
I don't think circus staff are necessarily mindlessly attacking animals as they were at Chipperfields, but I would not be at all surprised if negative reinforcement were used in training. The animals were on show so it was not because they didn't want people hanging about the animals that they moved them.
If I were them and protesters came regularly to something I did I would speak to them.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pt 3
at the end of the day its there home, and you have to respect that, you are not just turning up at the workplace, you are turning up where they live, to make a scene, and get police involved and get yourself arrested. No one wants that do they?
Im sure if you arranged a time to sit down and talk face to face with Zippos you would be pleasantly surprised, and they would probably take you a lot more seriously, because what it probably looks like to them is a bunch of students just trying
tigerain 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pt 4
to cause trouble and be controversial. The fact that you waited for them to come near, suggests to me that you obviously do no think that they are a priority and more it was just something to do. There are very few animal circus's left in UK, so there must be a reason why Zippos is one of them? They are no more powerful than any other circus that was shut down for animal cruelty.
Circus's in UK are one of the only fantastic British traditions we have left.
tigerain 2 years ago
The fact we wait for them to come near us is not an indication of anything, it is the way the animal rights movement operates with each area looking after their own patch, it was certainly not just something to do!
The other animal circuses were not shut down for animal cruelty but gave in to public pressure and dropped animals from there acts. The law is very weak when it comes to animals in circuses. Zippos has a business model that works while using animals, we hope to make it not work.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
I agree that circuses are an amazing British tradition and we must work to preserve them but just drop the antiquated animal acts!
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
At performance time it is just a work place and can no longer be considered simply a residence. We would be happy to meet Zippos but it won't change anything, we, like the RSPCA think circuses are no place for any animal. Our aim is not to convince Zippos its to convince the public. Zippos is a business and run for profit if they can make more money from non-animal performances they will go animal free.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
@tigerain
If we took the time to sit down with Zippos, we'd be pleasantly surprised by what?
PariahSmith 1 year ago
It's quite surprising you have never heard of the Chipperfields' case as it is a very famous court case. 'Pet' horses are not in transit for a large proportion of the year like circus animals are. This is one of the concerns of animal welfare moderates like the RSPCA about circuses that makes them oppose all of them. 'Pet' horses will be allowed exercise to a much greater extent than Zippos horses who have been shown to have been kept in trailers for hours on end.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pt 2 because the people who perform with these animals always put them first and tend to there every need because its there job. And there are for your information quite stringent checks on all of the animals there. i hate to be rude but the only time the animals on the show are distressed is when all you protestors turn up with your megaphones and make a scene, and i have first hand experience of this because i used to work for them.
tigerain 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There probably are circus's out there that do mistreat there animals, and you should divert you attention there, because thats wear it is needed :)
tigerain 2 years ago
Circuses by there very travelling nature are no place for animals. We protested against Zippos as it came near where we live, all they need do is retire there animals and we will give them our total support. Hell we will even put up posters for them!
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
The animals were not in the slightest bit bothered by us and the workers seemed uncaring towards them and didn't want us to see the animals.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
good for you Arran good to see you back!
KNTFM 2 years ago 2
Thanks :-)
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Glad to hear the charges were dropped. Is there anything the young protestor can do to challenge the reprimand?
Keep up the good work :)
magikalpiglet 2 years ago 2
I think he can challenge it before a judge if he wants to do so. I think he may need to show that he didn't know what he was doing when he accepted it though. I guess it depends how important it is to him whether he chooses to follow it up or not. Thanks for the support.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Hi Aran! My faith in humanity has been a little shaky lately (long story!) but finding you and learning of your efforts to stop animal abuse has restored some of my belief that there are good people in the world. I am happy that your property was returned to you and that you were not too badly injured. Please stay safe in the New Year and keep posting (and protesting). The madness of animal abuse will one day stop thanks to good, compassionate people like you! Merry Christmas! -Rob
DogsAreMyLife 2 years ago 2
Thanks for your kind words of support. It is nice to know there are good people all over the world fighting for an end to oppression. The only person anyone should trust is oneself and know that you, yourself, can change anything. I hope you and yours have an amazing New Year!
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Thank you Aran. Of course, the wrong people were arrested, but what else is new? The world is an insane asylum, but all the human cruelty will be answered for eventually.
quicksilver3x3 2 years ago 4
Thanks for the support. I agree with you nature will catch up with people soon and people are not going to like it.
"Majority rule don't work in mental institutions" - NOFX
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
Good to have you back :)
triple203 2 years ago 4
Thanks :-)
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago