God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, called it good.Knowledge of evil originated with God. Man recieved knowledge of God not God's innate virtue. But attribute of God evil knowledge. Man cannot create virtue of evil within himself.Evil was knowledge forbidden for man. But God created the evil, good. To bring about a greater redemption.Adam was flesh not perfect. Flesh & blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.Adam ate equally good & evil.Origination of evil is God's knowledge.
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion
What I say dont matter, you tell me if our creator had anything to do with the nazi murders.
Ezekiel 5:10 Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds.
Ezekiel 5:13 "Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath upon them, they will know that I the LORD have spoken in my zeal.
thou shalt not kill it is a sin, unless God tells us to do it Deuteronomy 13:10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
Ephesians 1:5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
God put the tree there did he not? and then said not to eat? he also allowed satan to tempt them did he not? couldnt God just not allow Satan on earth if he didnt want to?God creates evil in fact he he demands that we give hinm the credit.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
God is not responsible for evil because men have a choice between right and wrong. Not to say that man can be sinless, but we do have a choice between right and wrong. Calvinism teaches that man has no choice to do whats right but yet it says that man chooses to sin. "To choose" implys that a person has a choice between right and wrong. If not, then its no longer a choice. If a person can't choose to do right then how could you call it a choice when they sin? They have no other course.
Deuteronomy 28:21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess.
Deuteronomy 28:20 "The LORD will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because you have forsaken Me.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Romans 3:4 Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him, "You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case
THIS VERSE MEANS THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL WERE NEVER SAVED SO THEY OF COURSE WILL BE CONDEMNED
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
@MrSlippin22 What you describe as evil is the wrath of God. When does the wrath of God come into play? When men choose to disobey the truth of God's Word and live in sin and refuse to repent. Jonah was told to preach to Nineveh so they would repent and avoid the wrath of God. The wrath of God is not evil, its justice. Adam and Eve sinned when they disobeyed God. God does not force people to sin. It was their choice not God's. Read James 1:13-15
Jonah didnt want the people to repent So God put him in the belly of a whale( God forced him) God chose for them people to repent thats why he sent Jonah to tell them. Romans 9 :18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'
GOD PUT THE TREE THERE KNOWING VERY WELL THEY WOULD EAT OF IT, AND WANTED THEM TO EAT OF IT. HE ALSO KNEW BEFORE TIME BEGAN THAT HE WOULD SEND HIS SON TO GET NAILED TO A TREE WOODEN CROSS (SIN) AND HE ALSO KNOWS WHO HE IS SEND I HIS SON TO SAVE BEFORE THE EARTH WAS EVEN CREATED Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love GET IT?
@MrSlippin22 So are you saying that God tempted Adam and Eve with sin? If so, that directly contradicts James 1:13-15 "Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away BY HIS OWN DESIRES and enticed. Then when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin and sin when it is full grown brings forth death."
its his creation he dont do any wrong, are you saying that God is limited in what we say he can do? Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
In other words when you pray about anythng show God honor for who he is and ask him what he wants you to do(this is written for a reason) Matthew 6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
@MrSlippin22 God is certainly not limited in what He can do but God is also a just and righteous God who does not force people to sin. James 1:13-15 " Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He HImself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by HIS OWN DESIRES and enticed. Then when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin and sin when it is full grown brings forth death." This is a quote from the bible.
of course he is a righteous judge who can tell him? will you tell him that its unfair for him to punish the people of these generatons are dying of starvation and disease who werent even born yet for worshiping another God?Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me . God makes people sin and he makes them repent.
@MrSlippin22 "God makes people sin"? This contridicts the whole message of the bible that God is love and wants people to be saved. If God makes people sin then God would be responsible for every murder, rape, theft, lie and whatever horrible sin one could imagine. Did God make Cain kill Able? Did God make the Nazis murder 6 million Jews? Don't you see the insanity of your doctrine? Your false doctrine has portrayed God in league with the devil.
Deuteronomy 28:15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
Deuteronomy 28:21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess.
Proverbs 1:26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-
@MrSlippin22 You're not answering the question. Did God make Cain murder Abel? Did God make the Nazis murder and torture 6 million Jews? Does God make pedophiles rape and murder children? You said men have no freewill to choose so answer the question.
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. .(JESUS ONLY PRAYS TO THE FATHER FOR THOSE THE FATHER ) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world.you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.(JESUS ONLY PRAYS FOR THE ONES GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
FREE WILL WAS GONE WHEN ADAM AND EVE DISOBEYED HIM AFTER EATING OF THE TREE ( THAT HE PUT THERE AND TOLD THEM NOT TO EAT AND KNEW VERY WELL THEY WOULD) and after that it went from a very temporary so called free will to Gods will
we are his humble servants and he is our creator. when we leave this life after doing his will we will hear this Matthew 25:23 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
@MrSlippin22 Yes, God did choose who the elect were before the foundation of the world. Thats because God has foreknowledge concerning what choices people will make before they make them. In other words, he chose anyone who He knew would obey the gospel. God dwells in eternity. Isa.57:15, Rom. 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
That's a perfect picture of biblical idiocy and control in today's church. If the biblical translation that you use doesn't fit what you want your predisposed doctrine to state, simply pick a new one that fits better. In reality, how can anyone possibly look at the church today with an shred respect?
this contridicts itself from "man's will" and "God's Sovereignty" It was God will for man to fall, if not why CREATE a tree which is good and evil and say dont touch it, if all was good. Its either 100% God's soveignty or 100% man will. This is what I dislike about th reformers, they say one thing then when they against the wall with a doctrine, they bring the exceptions in, instead of destroying pride and reavaluating there doctrine, make man a liar and God truth, stop praising church fathers
@PRAYERWARRIORKING I understand that it was GODS plan for man to fall the reformers taught that I don't praise church fathers but pay close attention to what calvin martin luther and augustin said for I have not found better understanding of theology than theirs
@patriotsfan137 I know what they taught, Im a student of a bible college, Sometimes they cotridict each other, one moment God is in control of ALL things then but then when something contridicts that "theory" then all of a sudden man does have control. Its not there theology, !st the Holy Spirit inspiried and the Authors of scriptures revealed, All these guys did was reform what was already WAS. These men also have mistakes in there stidies of scripture...
@patriotsfan137 other men before them also got illuminated by the spirit of what the spirit taught, but never got credited, these men only seen what the Holy Spirit reveals to All men with the DESIRE to study scriptures, Bless you friend
@patriotsfan137 So did God create evil? Remeber its either 2 chooses, 1. God is a Sovern God and If he is the poter that makes vessels of Honor and vessels of WRATH, that says he shaped and molded evil. 2. If God isnt fully sovern, meaning He gives man free choose, but yet is STILL Sovern cause He is the CREATOR of coarse!!.... the problem is when contridiction comes, man cant admit his theology may have flaw, instead he waters it down just a bit to fit his theology, I love the reformer but...
@patriotsfan137 alot of them can be proudful in theology, just to make there theology fit there contridiction instead of humbling them selfs and "rethink".... Much love to ALL the men of God help pave the way, but known knew all things
It appears to me, that sin is merely a different choice than hitting the mark(God's commands)so it seems the knowledge of other choices would cause evil thoughts and imaginations, that lead to sin.So if all we knew were God's commands and nothing else,there would be no sin to commit,we wouldn't be aware of a contrary way to do things.This was Adam and Eve's state,until God arranged for them be tempted by the serpent opening their eyes to alternatives ,thus shutting us all up in disobedience.
If God is not responsible for evil this video is in contradiction with Mark's other video that God is in control over all things. I guess he means God relegates control or there is independent power in some spirit of evil virtue in His creation. Or that creation has ability to create virtue not first made from God. If I have power to bring evil about independtly of God. God is not in control of all things. Why not then say I have power independent of God to bring about yet another virtue.?
Man is made of dust he has no pre suppositions in him that he can create unless "gifted by God to do so " Unless he can create virtue he is powerless. Can man create virtue Mark.?He is dust he is not emotional or intelligent unless made to be so.God created evil in the tree. Man powerless of evil virtue by knowledge now is powerless to handle evil its disposition as well as good no less powerless to handle.God created evil called it good by knowledge to bring the Nature of Himself in revelation.
@polopowers1 if GOD created evil in a tree where does that leave the devil are you saying that the tree came before satan I don't think thats scriptural just a thought
@patriotsfan137 Did the devil create the tree of knowledge of good and evil.? No! God created the Knowledge of evil and good tree called it good God did not get knowledge from Satan That would make God un knowledgeable,even, impossible. God created the knowledge of good and evil and called it good. He used knowledge of evil to bring about greater revelation of Himself superior to good and evil. Remember Adam ate just as much good as evil and it was all sin, not evil alone but good & evil. Thanks
@polopowers1 I agree with your reasoning here. However, I suggest you (and many others including the people from the video) Google "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and "The Paradise of Dilmun". You will realize that Genesis chapters 1-11 is symbolic and not to be taken literally since these stories were written BEFORE Genesis. The Adam and Eve story is a polemic (many of these in the bible for it's the Hebrew style of writing) against idolatry (Asherah, serpent worship,etc). Sin has always existed.
God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge is an attribute of God not innate virtue He called the knowledge of evil, good. Man powerless of this knowledge is unable to have evil knowledge without sinning.God created evil in knowledge called it good. Man cannot create the virtue of evil, impossible.God created evil showing man what He Himself is not.Man cannot create evil yet is powerless to knowledge of evil and good, thus sinning by forbidden creation, by powerlessness.
that when You say that God has allowed something, You are implying that whatever he's allowing has a will to choose and operate in making choices. Of course I do not desire to imply that man frustrates God's will and decree, But God uses man's own will to accomplish his own.
@NoSub Nobody is free in any way if God is completely soveriegn and every single act rather it be sinful or not is ordain/decreed by God. That means Adam/Eve were ordained to fall and not just allowed. You cant escape causual responsibility from God since he Ordained it all. He doesnt take over your mind and sin, but uses secondary causes such as serpent tempting them or sending lieing spirits. That makes him responsible for sin/evil. Bible doesnt support that responsibility presupposes freedom.
evil Impulses has allowed man to fall in to depravity, and ordained it to be so, not cause God caused it, thus making him the Author of sin and all evil, but because he so willed it in order to bring forth his own plan, and receive Glory. I find it funny at times when discussing among my friends over the doctrine of the Origin of Evil, that they always say that God has allowed it in his own Divine Decree. I laugh and then respond saying i totally agree. but what i don't think they realize is
I agree with most of what the Reformers teach, the only problem I have in this video is that Mark Kielar tries almost it seems to justify a balanced view between the Doctrines of Sovereignty, and Human Responsibility. It makes no logical sense to say that God Ordained All things in view that he is in control of all of them, and then holds man completely responsible. I think a more correct view of this Doctrine is to say that the Adam and Eve were free in the beginning, and God knowing their
I also affirm that man's actions and intent are the cause of evil. But I do so from a standpoint of Libertarian free will. If nothing happens outside of the will and causation of God, as is the case for the Compatibalist view, how is God not ultimately responsible for evil? It seems as though the video failed to explain this.
It's the epitomy of presumption and arrogance to posit a god whom a logical human being can't justify as moral or logical.
It is offensive to arbitrarily demand obedience of him, when you are no more than another human being, claiming his existence with no more evidence than an ancient book of superstition and myth!
"...claiming his existence with no more evidence than an ancient book of superstition and myth!"
@Tobytrim They don't even have any original manuscripts. A bible is just a collection of arbitrarily translated fragments of copies of copies of copies of supposed autographs which no longer exist. Any real evidence they might have presented from an inspired apostolic source is gone. The only authority they can appeal to now is gossip & hearsay printed by fallible, errant, non-inspired copyists.
@MySocksSmell2 " The only authority they can appeal to now is gossip & hearsay printed by fallible, errant, non-inspired copyists. "
A good point well made! Indeed, if you want to take that track, it is even fairer to say that they don't even have that! Most "information" from scriptures is the personal, arbitrary, interpretation of whatever bullsitting moocher is preaching it at the time -
Any literal meaning lost credibility many generations ago.......
You assume to know the mind of God. What is good to God is not whats good to man. The reverse is also true. If you punish a child for playing in the street, you do so having knowledge the child does not have. The child believes you to be evil for the punishment, however you know it to be good. So who knows the mind of God? What is evil or good from His view point?
so whos sin caused katrina and the recent haitian earthquake?
even if evil was introduced by adam and eve eating of the tree of knowledge god made them so he would have known in advance not to put the tree there in the first place...
@cappadinoceo It wasn't an individuals sin that caused hurricanes and earthquakes. Evil came into the Earth and corrupted everything in the Earth including the winds and the rocks. Can you say that animals are not corrupted when animals will eat their own kind or commit violent acts upon their own families? Whether you believe in global warming or not, you can still believe that pollution, caused by man generally, has influenced the weather.
" Can you say that animals are not corrupted when animals will eat their own kind or commit violent acts upon their own families?"
uh yes...its called survival of the fittest or more properly, natural selection.
dude, even the wind and rocks are evil? LMFAO!
btw if u believe adam and eve commited the original sin then it WAS an individuals sin. however that still doesnt solve the problem of individual sin and punishment
@cappadinoceo I read them and yes, when God judges who will be in the kingdom of Heaven, he will judge based on the individual alone and not based on that individuals friends, family or culture. However, the corruption of the whole Earth is a collective result of all our individual sins. We are not guilty of Adam's sin but Adam's sin caused corruption to infect every descendant of Adam and subsequently to infect all of creation until all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
yeah, so we're not guilty, yet were all being punished for original sin, yet the bible says that wont happen. according to your logic, if the original sin nvr happened then we'd nvr have experienced sin...therefore we all suffer from original sin.
unfortunately, the bible ALSO says we WILL be punished for our fathers sins
@cappadinoceo It might also help you to know that sin is not an action. We have a sin nature. Like a disease, we have a condition in which we have become corrupted. God created perfection but Adam's sin corrupted our perfection and that corruption is sin. The actions that we call sin are in reality the result of a corrupted sin nature. Our best effort to be perfect fails. We fall short of the glory God created us to have. Therefore we need the grace of God to forgive us of our failures.
according to your assertion, if god created imperfect beings this must suggest an inherrant imperfection in god himself does it not? whether this imperfection started with original sin or lucifers rebellion it had to have an origin no? how does one acheive imperfection from perfection?
you should read a book other than this 'bible' which has reduced you to infantilism in your thought (actually, not thought, mindless regurgitation, always chasing your tail). you believe that creation is sacred, but you haven't the slightest curiosity regarding it apparently, as you appear to have no grasp of how any of it works; such as leaves dying. it's a necessary process, decay and death, it's how the physical world maintains order; neutral, but you would have as evil. Who made it again?
@jancivil So tell me how the krebs cycle works? How do the 40 different parts of a flagellum tail form? Are birds more closely related to reptiles or mammals? Why do you assume that I don't care about natural processes? Why do you assume the Bible is the only book I read? Is death really necessary? You say it's how the physical world maintains order but why would the physical world bother to maintain order? Or do you deify the physical world?
@cappadinoceo As far as the forbidden tree: maybe God had another purpose for the tree. Maybe the tree needed centuries to ripen before he would allow Adam to eat. There are also many plants that are useful without being edible such as cotton. But the number one thing to realize is that you are suggesting that God should have child-proofed the garden so that it was impossible to sin. But God created adults. God intended and expected that Adam would be wise enough to do right.
Here's a question for you to answer. Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that was in the garden? Here's something else to ponder. After God created everything He said that it was "very good". I know that God cannot sin. That is clear from scripture. I also know he created that tree in the garden of eden. That too is clear from scripture. How do we resolve the dilemma? I believe it is too difficult for us to wrap our minds around, showing us how great our God is.
@wtolp69.God's used His knowledge to bring evil to the attention of man so by difference He can bring Christ.Man did not eat evil only but good.Men are not born evil as some suggest they are born powerless to choose good all the time.Evil, God called by knowledge for Him good; not the practice.God did create evil knowledge not in His Nature to do. And presented it to man who proved powerless in nature to control.God now can present His true Nature to man not in law but by Christ to powerless man
@polopowers1 If this is the case then, I ask that you make this clear to us with scriptural proofs. It is an extreamly dangerous road to go down when we start to apply what we think in relation to God. We can form no right oppinion outside of scripture concerning God because our fallen, sinful condition. Therefore we can only trust what God has told us concerning himself in scripture.
@sthcrox Job 15:16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water? Sin is our nature. Notice how you never have to teach a child how to lie or be selfish-it comes quite naturally to them. But make effort to train them in uprightness and it will be an uphill battle. We choose sin as a matter of course and proof of our wicked depraved hearts. By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil. (Pro 16:6) {Jn 8:32,36; 15:3}
say you are sitting on a chair right now and looking at the computer. Who told you to look at the screen now? Who told you to read what you are reading now? ... you get the point? We DECIDE to do EVERY LITTLE SIN we commit. Anything we do absolutely without knowing (almost impossible, eh?) or in our sleep (like stabbing u with a knife while i'm sleeping/unconscious) can't be classed as sin knowingly. I believe dat the just Lord looks on it from a different aspect.
We make our decisions/choices on all the available options presented to us, from choildhood to death. The human nature is prone to accepting (choosing to) sin as often it is the seemingly best option presented at the moment of decision making.
Sin a personal choice. Vulnerability of the obviously frail weak Mankind to temptations cause them to make the wrong choice.
Jesus came here 2 open our eyes 2 our sins n make the right decisions not 2 sin (Repent) THEN n only then He will REBORN us.
Who created the tree of good and evil? God! He called it good.Men are not evil exclusively They also ate good.Evil is not an intrinsic virtue of God but a knowledge.God is Virtue better than morality.But evil was God's creation to bring about redemption.Man cannot create any virtue good or bad.Kowledge of evil was man's sin. Evil is the fruit of the tree created by God which He called good.Lane is saying evil was good until man ate He is right .Except God created evil from a knowledge He had.
God`s will van be everything. There is a prophecy in the bible: That the state of Israel will be reestablished. Why did this happen ? Because of the persecution by and the murder of 6. million jews by Hitler. So. comclusion Hitler did God`s will. This is the untenable conclusion, when you believe in " gods will.
No. He's not really sovereign, he was just kidding. You're responsible for your own salvation. Don't pay attention to God's words, he's just a kidder. He didn't really mean it when he implied he was master of all things.
Evil serves a purpose of God. Sin does NOT come to us naturally. We CHOOSE to sin. The tree of knowledge saw to that. I really believe you guys have a really twisted doctrine!
Man according to Lane had the remarkable ability to create only one virtue ,evil.But all other virtues of love, goodness,mercy, etc man is powerless to create >it is a wrong conclusion to think man can create any virtue even evil.
Lane went from God creating evil unto creating sin.One is a virtue (evil) and the other is action sin.God can create something not innate to His Nature.like evil. Which became a growing virtue in man revealingl mans powerless nature in relationship to sin..
Also being alone in eternity there is no objection to His "morality" God created the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL.And HE called it good because the end result Is Christ revealing God.There is no other way but by GOd creating evil to reveal the opposing virtue
so: 1) God is our leader, provider, protector, etc., 2) leaders are held responsible for the success/failure of their people, 3) God wants credit and thanks for all the good things that happen to anyone, so 4) why doesn't God ever get held responsible for any failures?
say you have a friend who is watching you get raped and murdered. not only could they stop it, but they could do so easily and without fear of being harmed. if they didn't, would that person be a friend at all?
this is why i refuse to serve a God who stands by and allows evil to happen to the innocent. if you think people all maybe deserve it, then look at this towards animal cruelty. God should be held responsible for all, both good and bad, and what he does and does not do.
I know that we all have free will...but...couldn't God find a way to not let people be predisposed to sin? couldn't He put the tree of aknowledge somewhere else or something?...so that we couldn't reach it or be tempted to sin? if He knew what will happen...this is what I do not understand
This "Paul stuff" sounds very much like "goose and gander" to me. There is "biblical truth", in which everything is accepted as true according to the bible. Then there is that disturbing nuisance that's created more havoc in the world---TRUTH! Biblical writing is based on the premise that postulates the presence of god before everything happened.
The KJV error in translation in Isaiah 45:7 was copied directly and (apparently) uncritically from the Geneva Bible. Earlier English translations (Coverdale, Bishops) are closer to the NASB/NIV.
Ahh, the Big Calvinist Paradox! God is sovereign, controls everything, knows everything, wills everything... but he isn't responsible for evil. No, man, who has no free will, somehow is. Calvinism 101...
I don't buy the argument that "newer" translations of the Bible are more correct than the old KJ. God created everything. We have rough so that we may know what smooth is. We have darkness so we may know what light is. We have evil so that we may know what good is. Not only did God create evil, but He let it loose in the world. If He had not done this, we would not recognise our ability to choose good over evil. Why did He bother? Not for us to know...yet.
When I build a machine, I make sure that I don't build any defects into it. Why didn't God do that? There must be a reason for doing this. Perhaps we were created as an experiment, which plainly explains why there is an end of times...the end of the experiment. My input, God, is not to create us again or you'll end up with these fanatics....yet again!
first you need to ask yourself why a self-sustaning, perfect God would create anything to begin with because He doesn't need anything. The answer it that God creates everything to display His glory.. He created man knowing full well the sin that would be come forth from His creations but even then, He receives glory whether it be showing His incredible compassion, mercy and forgiveness through Christ or displaying His magnificent wrath and perfect justice through sinners judgements.
u are referring to hypercalvinism which is unbiblical. God does not create people for torment. that is totally out of alignment with God's character and serves no purpose but to distort His goodness and longsuffering. since no man seeks God and hates Him, they are racking up their own rightful judgement for breaking His laws. for some, for His own purposes and pleasure, He chooses to intervene and pay their penalty. the rest are left to deal with their own penalty, we all deserve
the purpose of all creation is to demonstrate God's perfection and to glorify Him. Nothing is without purpose. God doesn't have to intervene to save anyone. He owes us nothing. we deserve hell but He has still chosen to intervene in the lives of some and not because they deserve it! God is glorified by those who respond in faith and love and glorified when those left to face their rightful punishment.. reveal His perfect justice and holy wrath.
yes but sometimes what seems passive to others, is merely what He is using to bring something to pass. take Judas betrayal, for instance. God didn't make Him sin or cause Him to betray Jesus but He preordained it in the sense that He allowed it to happen and used to fulfill His will for the sacrifice Jesus was to make
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be Holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will..." Ephesians 1:4-5
Calvin was not a Calvinist. Predestination is Biblical!
Demonstrate his perfection to whom? His upper classmen gods? Why would a deity create beings that will glorify and worship him/her? Everything is without purpose. It's called "Chaos" and there is nothing wrong with that. Everything is completely acting as a reaction to the forces around it, whether it is near or distant, or whether it is a reaction to it's past, present or future. A god doesn't need to be in this equation and it has never been.
Why do we still put our faith that there is a creator and that this creator is real? Why would he have to go to such trouble to display his glory. There shouldn't be faith. That word was created because this god they claim is real hasn't shown up YET. That's all this creator has to do. Don't send earthquakes or disasters or displays in the sky, all of which will be subject to doubt-- JUST SHOW UP! That way a lot of people will say, "Oh, God. I picked the wrong religion!"
he Lord said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8,9)." Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased
man has plenty of evidence of God.. He has shown up in everything, including the breath in your lungs.. God is spirit and inhabited the body of a man in Christ Jesus. was that not revealing enough? why do men cease to submit to the one true God? simple. they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Darkness doesn't want to be exposed and stays away from the light. people believe in God; they are just rebels, who suppress all knowledge of Him due to their sin and love of it.
The breath in my lungs, and yours, by the way, is evidence that this planet has an atmosphere. Fear of the "fires of hell" (which is not in the bible, mind you, one of them popes wrote it in to christian dogma after too much reading into Dante's Inferno) as perhaps a way to scare the "faithful" into submission or else the outcome of your "sinful" existence will be fire and damnation, righteously inflicted by the same god who said he loves you very much. Imagine that.
"Hath not the potter the power over the clay of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour-- What if God willing to show his wrath, and make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he hath afore prepared unto glory."
God is willing to show his elect the wrath of evil men which are the majority.
Please, God. No more displays of power and holy muscle flexing to demonstrate your wrath. Too many of YOUR beloved people die in the process, and you've killed enough. Please stop rocking our anthill. Please, no more majestic mountains and scenery and images of you and your relatives on toast to display your glory. Please, no more cryptic verses that people use to take advantage of others. I am merely one of your "creations" with a humble suggestion: SHOW UP MOTHERFUCKAH!!!
your hatred and disgusting name that you call God just shows the condition of your heart. in fact, that contempt you have for Him proves all the more what the bible says: men hate God and do not seek Him. no, they seek a god of their own making. if you wanted to seek the Almighty, truly.. i can guarantee you wouldn't be calling HIm that, no, you would tremble with humility and be awestruck.
Thanks for the diagnosis, doctor. You're also acting as a judge painting me as a god hater, perhaps all in the name of biblical righteousness. You are invited to light the first match in our weekly witch torching.
I like to believe in things that are consistent, predictable and logical, that events can be explained in many ways under different lights, to take the middle ground in order not to fall into arrogance or righteousness, that I see things that are not tinged by bias.
I will certainly tremble with humility, and terror (to realize I've been wrong all these years), as soon as he shows up. No, not when I die-- that's cheating. While I'm alive and lucid. That way I can email you the good news that he does exist and you can forward it to ten of your friends or god will send them to hell.
i didn't diagnose you; God's word did. everybody hates God until He changes their heart and makes it one of flesh instead of stone. i have no need to witch torch. in fact, i used to be into wicca and readily extend my hand to all, no matter their walk of life, in Christ's name.
Unless you're online with God at the moment, you are mistaken (said musically)! Interesting that you were into Wicca. What made you leave it? What does it take to give up a faith? Seriously, I know what you meant. I wrote something that ran into a religious platitude or something that automatically passed judgment on me. Shock, I am one of God's soldiers (special forces, actually). Sun Tsu wrote that if there is discord among his troops, it is the General's fault.
what made me leave wicca? God did. however the other reasons were the fact that it never satiated me, it caused me to slip further into destruction and self delusion and my heart was not in it. it was something convenient but not truly tangible. something i could use to feel good about myself and try to have control over something. btw, i'm a blond hair, blue eyed model girl, not some big man you may be envisioning on the other side of this keyboard. lol
Oh, I did make a mistake when I referred to you as a guy. I am so embarrassed you caught that. I wasn't envisioning anything except to reach the brilliant intellect underneath your cryptic name (deep, huh?). The reasons you gave are also the same reasons others say when leaving any religion, or Jenny Craig for that matter (not enough food). What makes you believe that this is "the one?" Better yet, are you certain?
what makes me believe this is the one? because i never signed up for this. it just happened to me. something, though i have for a time, tried to stuff it down, it wells up in me, my conscience has been made alive like never before.. i feel things that my flesh would never have agreed to on its own. the kind of truth that is as hard as nails but it resonates so deeply that you do anything else but believe. it's like asking you to not breathe. once you have been given breath, you continue on
you can't keep the breath inside of yourself,it's too painful. u can't deny what gives u life. mercy, that you as a frail, faulty human could never muster up for a person who has taken ur innocence away by rape has now been given,as it shatters the rage and pain. joy of knowing the longing for peace is over- that ive been reunited with my first love, whom i suppressed most of my life: the author of my being. I'm not ashamed to tremble at His feet.. I can only kiss the hand that has afflicted me
Your words are profound. I am sorry for your misfortunes and also elated that you have found peace. Some might call them acceptance and moving on. If you were a Muslim, you would be praising Allah, in Japan, you would praise your ancestors. This liberation from anger, hate, disaster, illness, anguish, etc when it occurs serendipitously will make anyone conclude that it is an occurrence only attributable to a higher power. Many personify this feeling... that's when the troubles come.
God finds pleasure in Himself. imagine that. He doesn't need to get mere human beings validation or the creations He formed to give Him affirmation. He is so perfect that He gets the glory from just being God. His perfection is clearly seen by all and yes, every knee will bow, even those in hell who hate Him. God is so awesome and great that He is without want or need.
Wait a minute.... Are you the same guy who wrote the argument to the opposite? Earlier you wrote, "The answer it that God creates everything to display His glory"...not to us, you say now. That's like saying your creator "created" a heavenly creator-sized mirror and is continually posing in front of it.
To say that God is evil if He "ordained" and "created" sin, is to force a standard upon God that simply does not exist. Nowhere is the "creation" or "ordaining" (as opposed to the "performing") of sin condemned in the Bible. And the reason for that is that man is incapable of "creating" or "ordaining" evil.
Gods Glory is revealed by His providence in spite of the presence of evil..He can even use evil for His greater good. Nothing can thwart Gods purposes, not even the lack of good. Whatever God has purposed what will and has come to pass. We are culpable for the evil we commit. God does not tempt. God gave Adam the ability to sin, and not to sin. we dont have the ability to not sin. This didnt catch God by surprise. So I dont see the logic in a predestining God being the Author of evil.
That's a terrible translation of the Hebrew. The word is not "evil" and should not be translated as such for it has nothing to do with the evil "we create" vs. the evil "God creates."
Get yourself a better translation.
The Hebrew word means "calamity" or "disaster." Some other very good translations use the word "woe."
The point is that good times and bad times are brought on by God. Not that genuine evil has anything to do with God. You'll need to try again. Sorry.
Nothing comes to pass unless God decrees it should pass. Evil comes to pass because God decreed evil to pass.
God is not evil in decreeing evil because Good is defined by God and all that He does is Good by definition because there is no higher standard than God.
God is not beneath the law but above it.
Evil exists so that God can display his Justice in wrath on vessels prepared for destruction and Mercy on the elect.
Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. -- In those who have been, by grace, humbled by the Mighty Power of God, when we have "seen" His glory and experienced His forgivness, these types of prideful arguments cease...then we can say with Eli, "It is the Lord: let him do what seemeth him good." God is not evil, He is good and righteous in all His judgments, and deserves all our praises! Glory forever to our Lord Christ Jesus!
You can say that God is not evil until your face turns blue, but you contradict yourself outright when you say that He is both not evil and the source of evil since He willed evil into the world.
Whatever God does is good, regardless of how you feel about it. God tells us in Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. If God chooses to do... "whatever", He is right, You see? Complaining about God's absolute right to do as He sees fit is arrogance.
Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein. -- 1 John 3:4, Romans 14:23, James 4:17, 1 Cor. 15:56, James 2:9, 1 Kings 13:33-34, Proverbs 14:34,1 Kings 12:28-30, 1 Samuel 15:23...and the list goes on. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.--Instead of asking me how I would define sin, why don't you go to the Bible and see how God defines it? Let His definitions of things be the benchmark for your understanding, not flawed human ideology, assumptions, or feelings.
That's not helpful at all. If God is sovereign in the sense that this guy in the video talks about, then it makes no sense that Adam could have corrupted God's creation unless it was the express will of God for Adam to fall and cause us the pain and suffering of living in sin and subjecting us to the torments of hell.
Of course, if we believe that God is sovereign over all, logically God is responsible for evil; it was God's will that Adam sinned. With that knowledge, do we blame God for sending people to Hell? Does He not have the right to do as He wants? Those who have been regenerated should understand this. God has absolute free will...and He has decreed that we all deserve hell; but God so loved the world, He gave His only Son to save all those who will believe. Praise God for His mercy and Grace!
Yes He has the right to do what He wants if He is sovereign over all, but He cannot be called honest and say that we deserve hell because He made us unable to meet an impossible standard. He cannot be called just if He created us evil and then punished us for succumbing to our nature. He cannot be called good and merciful if He requires the punishment and passes it off as if it were forgiveness.
The fact that Jesus had to intervene to save us from God means that this is a God who is evil toward His creation and someone had to stand up to Him and say "no more."
Who sets the standard for honesty, justice, or love for that matter? You? Me? God does. Thank God He doesn't "measure up" to "our" standard of honesty or justice; otherwise He would be evil! God creates something evil, and destroys it because it is evil...perfect justice. God creates evil beings who were declared to be righteous beings from before the foundations of the world and saves them...perfect mercy! We can't hold God up to ou measuring stick...to mere human wisdom. Proverbs 3:5-6
I'm not sure if you completely understand what you just said. This is the exact equivalent of what you said - if I give a gun to someone, force them to shoot someone with it (since they cannot resist my command) and then I shoot the person I gave the gun to for shooting someone, I'm perfectly just. Your second statement is even more amazing than the first. If He has "perfect mercy" wouldn't salvation be for ALL people, not just the elect? I think at best, you believe in "selective mercy"
I'm not sure you completely read all that I wrote. You are holding God up to "your" standard. You come up with a flawed human analogy to describe God's justice (one that makes Him unjust), and then congratulate yourself when He fails to meet your human requirements of justice. Do you know God? Consider His OldTestament law for stoning homosexuals or disobedient children. Would you call those just laws? God did! I hope by grace you can step outside of human wisdom and receive the truth.
I didn't come up with a flawed analogy, it is exactly what you are claiming God did. He gave us the means to be evil, made us so that we could not resist those means and then punished us when we could not resist those means. In answer to your question though, I can answer only this - no one knows the Father except the Son and the one to whom the Son reveals Him. Your second question, I will answer with a question of my own (continued in the next post)
Is it that God commands the death of homosexuals and disobedient children, or is this an excuse for us to hate that which we don't understand and/or find to be dangerous to our growth as a civilization?
Psalm 50:21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
If God is saying that this it is showing that He is NOT like us, in that He is not prone to evil. You on the other hand are claiming not only is He prone to evil, but He is the source of it. You are making God in man's image it seems.
God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, called it good.Knowledge of evil originated with God. Man recieved knowledge of God not God's innate virtue. But attribute of God evil knowledge. Man cannot create virtue of evil within himself.Evil was knowledge forbidden for man. But God created the evil, good. To bring about a greater redemption.Adam was flesh not perfect. Flesh & blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.Adam ate equally good & evil.Origination of evil is God's knowledge.
polopowers1 3 hours ago
and Gay
Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
doesnt this verse tell you enough?
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
What I say dont matter, you tell me if our creator had anything to do with the nazi murders.
Ezekiel 5:10 Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds.
Ezekiel 5:13 "Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath upon them, they will know that I the LORD have spoken in my zeal.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
thou shalt not kill it is a sin, unless God tells us to do it Deuteronomy 13:10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
Ephesians 1:5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
GET IT?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
God put the tree there did he not? and then said not to eat? he also allowed satan to tempt them did he not? couldnt God just not allow Satan on earth if he didnt want to?God creates evil in fact he he demands that we give hinm the credit.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
God is not responsible for evil because men have a choice between right and wrong. Not to say that man can be sinless, but we do have a choice between right and wrong. Calvinism teaches that man has no choice to do whats right but yet it says that man chooses to sin. "To choose" implys that a person has a choice between right and wrong. If not, then its no longer a choice. If a person can't choose to do right then how could you call it a choice when they sin? They have no other course.
horseman528 2 months ago
GOD CREATES EVIL
Deuteronomy 28:21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess.
Deuteronomy 28:20 "The LORD will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because you have forsaken Me.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
Romans 3:4 Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him, "You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case
THIS VERSE MEANS THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL WERE NEVER SAVED SO THEY OF COURSE WILL BE CONDEMNED
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
@MrSlippin22 What you describe as evil is the wrath of God. When does the wrath of God come into play? When men choose to disobey the truth of God's Word and live in sin and refuse to repent. Jonah was told to preach to Nineveh so they would repent and avoid the wrath of God. The wrath of God is not evil, its justice. Adam and Eve sinned when they disobeyed God. God does not force people to sin. It was their choice not God's. Read James 1:13-15
horseman528 1 month ago
Jonah didnt want the people to repent So God put him in the belly of a whale( God forced him) God chose for them people to repent thats why he sent Jonah to tell them. Romans 9 :18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
GOD PUT THE TREE THERE KNOWING VERY WELL THEY WOULD EAT OF IT, AND WANTED THEM TO EAT OF IT. HE ALSO KNEW BEFORE TIME BEGAN THAT HE WOULD SEND HIS SON TO GET NAILED TO A TREE WOODEN CROSS (SIN) AND HE ALSO KNOWS WHO HE IS SEND I HIS SON TO SAVE BEFORE THE EARTH WAS EVEN CREATED Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love GET IT?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 So are you saying that God tempted Adam and Eve with sin? If so, that directly contradicts James 1:13-15 "Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away BY HIS OWN DESIRES and enticed. Then when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin and sin when it is full grown brings forth death."
horseman528 1 month ago
its his creation he dont do any wrong, are you saying that God is limited in what we say he can do? Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
In other words when you pray about anythng show God honor for who he is and ask him what he wants you to do(this is written for a reason) Matthew 6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 God is certainly not limited in what He can do but God is also a just and righteous God who does not force people to sin. James 1:13-15 " Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He HImself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by HIS OWN DESIRES and enticed. Then when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin and sin when it is full grown brings forth death." This is a quote from the bible.
horseman528 1 month ago
of course he is a righteous judge who can tell him? will you tell him that its unfair for him to punish the people of these generatons are dying of starvation and disease who werent even born yet for worshiping another God?Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me . God makes people sin and he makes them repent.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 "God makes people sin"? This contridicts the whole message of the bible that God is love and wants people to be saved. If God makes people sin then God would be responsible for every murder, rape, theft, lie and whatever horrible sin one could imagine. Did God make Cain kill Able? Did God make the Nazis murder 6 million Jews? Don't you see the insanity of your doctrine? Your false doctrine has portrayed God in league with the devil.
horseman528 1 month ago
Its his creation he does what he wants
Deuteronomy 28:15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
Deuteronomy 28:21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess.
Proverbs 1:26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-
and he dont want all men to be saved
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 You're not answering the question. Did God make Cain murder Abel? Did God make the Nazis murder and torture 6 million Jews? Does God make pedophiles rape and murder children? You said men have no freewill to choose so answer the question.
horseman528 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Only saves those he sends his son to save
John 6:44 "For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
John 17:6-19
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. .(JESUS ONLY PRAYS TO THE FATHER FOR THOSE THE FATHER ) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
John 17:6-19
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world.you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.(JESUS ONLY PRAYS FOR THE ONES GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
God chooses those who did not even ask for him
Romans 10:20 And Isaiah boldly says, "I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
FREE WILL WAS GONE WHEN ADAM AND EVE DISOBEYED HIM AFTER EATING OF THE TREE ( THAT HE PUT THERE AND TOLD THEM NOT TO EAT AND KNEW VERY WELL THEY WOULD) and after that it went from a very temporary so called free will to Gods will
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
we are his humble servants and he is our creator. when we leave this life after doing his will we will hear this Matthew 25:23 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 Yes, God did choose who the elect were before the foundation of the world. Thats because God has foreknowledge concerning what choices people will make before they make them. In other words, he chose anyone who He knew would obey the gospel. God dwells in eternity. Isa.57:15, Rom. 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
horseman528 1 month ago
God is clearly the vanguard of our destruction.
chairincarnate 4 months ago
Comment removed
polopowers1 4 months ago
That's a perfect picture of biblical idiocy and control in today's church. If the biblical translation that you use doesn't fit what you want your predisposed doctrine to state, simply pick a new one that fits better. In reality, how can anyone possibly look at the church today with an shred respect?
trevor1787 5 months ago
Would the earth quake in Japan be an example of God creating disaster?
Sin causes disease and natural disasters. What a load of crap.
What a load of crap.
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
Would the earth quake in Japan be an example of God creating disaster?
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
yea but are you saying the chicken came before the egg?? the tree or satan? lol
patriotsfan137 11 months ago
but so what are you saying ? that GOD created evil ? not what the reformers say what do you say?
patriotsfan137 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Is 45:7)
edadan2009 6 months ago
this contridicts itself from "man's will" and "God's Sovereignty" It was God will for man to fall, if not why CREATE a tree which is good and evil and say dont touch it, if all was good. Its either 100% God's soveignty or 100% man will. This is what I dislike about th reformers, they say one thing then when they against the wall with a doctrine, they bring the exceptions in, instead of destroying pride and reavaluating there doctrine, make man a liar and God truth, stop praising church fathers
PRAYERWARRIORKING 11 months ago
@PRAYERWARRIORKING I understand that it was GODS plan for man to fall the reformers taught that I don't praise church fathers but pay close attention to what calvin martin luther and augustin said for I have not found better understanding of theology than theirs
patriotsfan137 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137 I know what they taught, Im a student of a bible college, Sometimes they cotridict each other, one moment God is in control of ALL things then but then when something contridicts that "theory" then all of a sudden man does have control. Its not there theology, !st the Holy Spirit inspiried and the Authors of scriptures revealed, All these guys did was reform what was already WAS. These men also have mistakes in there stidies of scripture...
PRAYERWARRIORKING 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137 other men before them also got illuminated by the spirit of what the spirit taught, but never got credited, these men only seen what the Holy Spirit reveals to All men with the DESIRE to study scriptures, Bless you friend
PRAYERWARRIORKING 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137 So did God create evil? Remeber its either 2 chooses, 1. God is a Sovern God and If he is the poter that makes vessels of Honor and vessels of WRATH, that says he shaped and molded evil. 2. If God isnt fully sovern, meaning He gives man free choose, but yet is STILL Sovern cause He is the CREATOR of coarse!!.... the problem is when contridiction comes, man cant admit his theology may have flaw, instead he waters it down just a bit to fit his theology, I love the reformer but...
PRAYERWARRIORKING 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137 alot of them can be proudful in theology, just to make there theology fit there contridiction instead of humbling them selfs and "rethink".... Much love to ALL the men of God help pave the way, but known knew all things
PRAYERWARRIORKING 11 months ago
It appears to me, that sin is merely a different choice than hitting the mark(God's commands)so it seems the knowledge of other choices would cause evil thoughts and imaginations, that lead to sin.So if all we knew were God's commands and nothing else,there would be no sin to commit,we wouldn't be aware of a contrary way to do things.This was Adam and Eve's state,until God arranged for them be tempted by the serpent opening their eyes to alternatives ,thus shutting us all up in disobedience.
CBALLEN 11 months ago
If God is not responsible for evil this video is in contradiction with Mark's other video that God is in control over all things. I guess he means God relegates control or there is independent power in some spirit of evil virtue in His creation. Or that creation has ability to create virtue not first made from God. If I have power to bring evil about independtly of God. God is not in control of all things. Why not then say I have power independent of God to bring about yet another virtue.?
polopowers1 1 year ago
Another day in crazy town.
The problem is us not God, not God, never God.
So all of the mythology stuff is just fine. Blood washes sin. Wounds heal. A great loving God wants to be feared.
All of it is crazy and anyone who tries to believe it up irrational.
SamWiseGingy 1 year ago
this is why we must hate sin. as much as God hates sin. Sin takes us away from our Creator.
megaman90 1 year ago
Man is made of dust he has no pre suppositions in him that he can create unless "gifted by God to do so " Unless he can create virtue he is powerless. Can man create virtue Mark.?He is dust he is not emotional or intelligent unless made to be so.God created evil in the tree. Man powerless of evil virtue by knowledge now is powerless to handle evil its disposition as well as good no less powerless to handle.God created evil called it good by knowledge to bring the Nature of Himself in revelation.
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 if GOD created evil in a tree where does that leave the devil are you saying that the tree came before satan I don't think thats scriptural just a thought
patriotsfan137 11 months ago
@patriotsfan137 Did the devil create the tree of knowledge of good and evil.? No! God created the Knowledge of evil and good tree called it good God did not get knowledge from Satan That would make God un knowledgeable,even, impossible. God created the knowledge of good and evil and called it good. He used knowledge of evil to bring about greater revelation of Himself superior to good and evil. Remember Adam ate just as much good as evil and it was all sin, not evil alone but good & evil. Thanks
polopowers1 11 months ago
@polopowers1 I agree with your reasoning here. However, I suggest you (and many others including the people from the video) Google "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and "The Paradise of Dilmun". You will realize that Genesis chapters 1-11 is symbolic and not to be taken literally since these stories were written BEFORE Genesis. The Adam and Eve story is a polemic (many of these in the bible for it's the Hebrew style of writing) against idolatry (Asherah, serpent worship,etc). Sin has always existed.
rrusco 9 months ago
I believe adam fell so we might be
infinity2012shelter 1 year ago
God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge is an attribute of God not innate virtue He called the knowledge of evil, good. Man powerless of this knowledge is unable to have evil knowledge without sinning.God created evil in knowledge called it good. Man cannot create the virtue of evil, impossible.God created evil showing man what He Himself is not.Man cannot create evil yet is powerless to knowledge of evil and good, thus sinning by forbidden creation, by powerlessness.
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 When you are reading a story with a talking snake and magic trees you are usually reading a myth.
SamWiseGingy 1 year ago
the elect huh? why is this narrator so sure he's one of the elect
zipitup75 1 year ago
that when You say that God has allowed something, You are implying that whatever he's allowing has a will to choose and operate in making choices. Of course I do not desire to imply that man frustrates God's will and decree, But God uses man's own will to accomplish his own.
NoSubjectiveTruth1 1 year ago
@NoSub Nobody is free in any way if God is completely soveriegn and every single act rather it be sinful or not is ordain/decreed by God. That means Adam/Eve were ordained to fall and not just allowed. You cant escape causual responsibility from God since he Ordained it all. He doesnt take over your mind and sin, but uses secondary causes such as serpent tempting them or sending lieing spirits. That makes him responsible for sin/evil. Bible doesnt support that responsibility presupposes freedom.
JesusforLife2 1 year ago
@NoSubjectiveTruth1 Ever heard of the teacher failing the student?...lol...enjoy your imaginary friend.
magicyte 1 year ago
evil Impulses has allowed man to fall in to depravity, and ordained it to be so, not cause God caused it, thus making him the Author of sin and all evil, but because he so willed it in order to bring forth his own plan, and receive Glory. I find it funny at times when discussing among my friends over the doctrine of the Origin of Evil, that they always say that God has allowed it in his own Divine Decree. I laugh and then respond saying i totally agree. but what i don't think they realize is
NoSubjectiveTruth1 1 year ago
I agree with most of what the Reformers teach, the only problem I have in this video is that Mark Kielar tries almost it seems to justify a balanced view between the Doctrines of Sovereignty, and Human Responsibility. It makes no logical sense to say that God Ordained All things in view that he is in control of all of them, and then holds man completely responsible. I think a more correct view of this Doctrine is to say that the Adam and Eve were free in the beginning, and God knowing their
NoSubjectiveTruth1 1 year ago
I also affirm that man's actions and intent are the cause of evil. But I do so from a standpoint of Libertarian free will. If nothing happens outside of the will and causation of God, as is the case for the Compatibalist view, how is God not ultimately responsible for evil? It seems as though the video failed to explain this.
Teachthecross 1 year ago
'this isn't a question that even deserves an answer'...
Youi intellectually dishonest shitass.
jancivil 1 year ago
Comment removed
polopowers1 1 year ago
It's the epitomy of presumption and arrogance to posit a god whom a logical human being can't justify as moral or logical.
It is offensive to arbitrarily demand obedience of him, when you are no more than another human being, claiming his existence with no more evidence than an ancient book of superstition and myth!
Tobytrim 1 year ago
"...claiming his existence with no more evidence than an ancient book of superstition and myth!"
@Tobytrim They don't even have any original manuscripts. A bible is just a collection of arbitrarily translated fragments of copies of copies of copies of supposed autographs which no longer exist. Any real evidence they might have presented from an inspired apostolic source is gone. The only authority they can appeal to now is gossip & hearsay printed by fallible, errant, non-inspired copyists.
MySocksSmell2 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 " The only authority they can appeal to now is gossip & hearsay printed by fallible, errant, non-inspired copyists. "
A good point well made! Indeed, if you want to take that track, it is even fairer to say that they don't even have that! Most "information" from scriptures is the personal, arbitrary, interpretation of whatever bullsitting moocher is preaching it at the time -
Any literal meaning lost credibility many generations ago.......
Tobytrim 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 My earlier comment was a direct rebuttal to the unfair accusations used in the video - using it's narrarors own language style....
Tobytrim 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I SHIT ON ALLAH, JESUS, BUDAH, THOR, WOTAN, BAAL, Zarathustra, APOLLO, RA, AND ALL METAPHYSICS EVERYWHERE.....
I AM THE SPAGHETTI MONSTER , THE SPIRIT OF THE MEAT BALL, AND THE HOLY PARMESAN CHEEZ!!!!!!
zencat999 1 year ago
No one today can "talk back" to God
He's got to talk to us first in order for us to talk "back" to him
dave4248 1 year ago
You assume to know the mind of God. What is good to God is not whats good to man. The reverse is also true. If you punish a child for playing in the street, you do so having knowledge the child does not have. The child believes you to be evil for the punishment, however you know it to be good. So who knows the mind of God? What is evil or good from His view point?
kulwick 1 year ago
God is NOT sovereign!! God gave His authority to people to use! That's why Jesus suffered and died!! To give God's authority to people!!
oh4sure 1 year ago
so whos sin caused katrina and the recent haitian earthquake?
even if evil was introduced by adam and eve eating of the tree of knowledge god made them so he would have known in advance not to put the tree there in the first place...
knowledge is power...
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
@cappadinoceo Yours & Mine bro.
TAKEHEED1 1 year ago
@TAKEHEED1
i assume u mean yours and my sin? so why not punish you and me? why would god cause others to suffer for an individuals sin?
sounds fair and just to me!
btw deut. 24:16 suggests otherwise...
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
@TAKEHEED1
oh and
2 kings 14:6
knowledge is power...
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
@cappadinoceo It wasn't an individuals sin that caused hurricanes and earthquakes. Evil came into the Earth and corrupted everything in the Earth including the winds and the rocks. Can you say that animals are not corrupted when animals will eat their own kind or commit violent acts upon their own families? Whether you believe in global warming or not, you can still believe that pollution, caused by man generally, has influenced the weather.
bejjinks 1 year ago
@bejjinks
" Can you say that animals are not corrupted when animals will eat their own kind or commit violent acts upon their own families?"
uh yes...its called survival of the fittest or more properly, natural selection.
dude, even the wind and rocks are evil? LMFAO!
btw if u believe adam and eve commited the original sin then it WAS an individuals sin. however that still doesnt solve the problem of individual sin and punishment
read deut 24:16 and 2kings 14:6 if u dare!
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
@cappadinoceo I read them and yes, when God judges who will be in the kingdom of Heaven, he will judge based on the individual alone and not based on that individuals friends, family or culture. However, the corruption of the whole Earth is a collective result of all our individual sins. We are not guilty of Adam's sin but Adam's sin caused corruption to infect every descendant of Adam and subsequently to infect all of creation until all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
bejjinks 1 year ago
@bejjinks
yeah, so we're not guilty, yet were all being punished for original sin, yet the bible says that wont happen. according to your logic, if the original sin nvr happened then we'd nvr have experienced sin...therefore we all suffer from original sin.
unfortunately, the bible ALSO says we WILL be punished for our fathers sins
exodus 34:7
dont u just love bible study!
=)
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
@cappadinoceo It might also help you to know that sin is not an action. We have a sin nature. Like a disease, we have a condition in which we have become corrupted. God created perfection but Adam's sin corrupted our perfection and that corruption is sin. The actions that we call sin are in reality the result of a corrupted sin nature. Our best effort to be perfect fails. We fall short of the glory God created us to have. Therefore we need the grace of God to forgive us of our failures.
bejjinks 1 year ago
@bejjinks
according to your assertion, if god created imperfect beings this must suggest an inherrant imperfection in god himself does it not? whether this imperfection started with original sin or lucifers rebellion it had to have an origin no? how does one acheive imperfection from perfection?
cappadinoceo 1 year ago
you should read a book other than this 'bible' which has reduced you to infantilism in your thought (actually, not thought, mindless regurgitation, always chasing your tail). you believe that creation is sacred, but you haven't the slightest curiosity regarding it apparently, as you appear to have no grasp of how any of it works; such as leaves dying. it's a necessary process, decay and death, it's how the physical world maintains order; neutral, but you would have as evil. Who made it again?
jancivil 1 year ago
@jancivil So tell me how the krebs cycle works? How do the 40 different parts of a flagellum tail form? Are birds more closely related to reptiles or mammals? Why do you assume that I don't care about natural processes? Why do you assume the Bible is the only book I read? Is death really necessary? You say it's how the physical world maintains order but why would the physical world bother to maintain order? Or do you deify the physical world?
bejjinks 1 year ago
@cappadinoceo As far as the forbidden tree: maybe God had another purpose for the tree. Maybe the tree needed centuries to ripen before he would allow Adam to eat. There are also many plants that are useful without being edible such as cotton. But the number one thing to realize is that you are suggesting that God should have child-proofed the garden so that it was impossible to sin. But God created adults. God intended and expected that Adam would be wise enough to do right.
bejjinks 1 year ago
This one is a no-brainer: EVERYthing came from God, including evil.
Mirror4u2 1 year ago
love the message, but the paint bucket animation got a little old after the first time :)
PrkchpsNaplsaws 1 year ago
Here's a question for you to answer. Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that was in the garden? Here's something else to ponder. After God created everything He said that it was "very good". I know that God cannot sin. That is clear from scripture. I also know he created that tree in the garden of eden. That too is clear from scripture. How do we resolve the dilemma? I believe it is too difficult for us to wrap our minds around, showing us how great our God is.
wtolp69 1 year ago
@wtolp69.God's used His knowledge to bring evil to the attention of man so by difference He can bring Christ.Man did not eat evil only but good.Men are not born evil as some suggest they are born powerless to choose good all the time.Evil, God called by knowledge for Him good; not the practice.God did create evil knowledge not in His Nature to do. And presented it to man who proved powerless in nature to control.God now can present His true Nature to man not in law but by Christ to powerless man
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 If this is the case then, I ask that you make this clear to us with scriptural proofs. It is an extreamly dangerous road to go down when we start to apply what we think in relation to God. We can form no right oppinion outside of scripture concerning God because our fallen, sinful condition. Therefore we can only trust what God has told us concerning himself in scripture.
TheRedeemedbygrace 1 year ago
@sthcrox Job 15:16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water? Sin is our nature. Notice how you never have to teach a child how to lie or be selfish-it comes quite naturally to them. But make effort to train them in uprightness and it will be an uphill battle. We choose sin as a matter of course and proof of our wicked depraved hearts. By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil. (Pro 16:6) {Jn 8:32,36; 15:3}
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
say you are sitting on a chair right now and looking at the computer. Who told you to look at the screen now? Who told you to read what you are reading now? ... you get the point? We DECIDE to do EVERY LITTLE SIN we commit. Anything we do absolutely without knowing (almost impossible, eh?) or in our sleep (like stabbing u with a knife while i'm sleeping/unconscious) can't be classed as sin knowingly. I believe dat the just Lord looks on it from a different aspect.
Point is: we decide 2 sin
sthcrox 1 year ago
We make our decisions/choices on all the available options presented to us, from choildhood to death. The human nature is prone to accepting (choosing to) sin as often it is the seemingly best option presented at the moment of decision making.
Sin a personal choice. Vulnerability of the obviously frail weak Mankind to temptations cause them to make the wrong choice.
Jesus came here 2 open our eyes 2 our sins n make the right decisions not 2 sin (Repent) THEN n only then He will REBORN us.
sthcrox 1 year ago
Who created the tree of good and evil? God! He called it good.Men are not evil exclusively They also ate good.Evil is not an intrinsic virtue of God but a knowledge.God is Virtue better than morality.But evil was God's creation to bring about redemption.Man cannot create any virtue good or bad.Kowledge of evil was man's sin. Evil is the fruit of the tree created by God which He called good.Lane is saying evil was good until man ate He is right .Except God created evil from a knowledge He had.
polopowers1 1 year ago
God`s will van be everything. There is a prophecy in the bible: That the state of Israel will be reestablished. Why did this happen ? Because of the persecution by and the murder of 6. million jews by Hitler. So. comclusion Hitler did God`s will. This is the untenable conclusion, when you believe in " gods will.
lizazoon 1 year ago
No. He's not really sovereign, he was just kidding. You're responsible for your own salvation. Don't pay attention to God's words, he's just a kidder. He didn't really mean it when he implied he was master of all things.
bstephenson9 1 year ago
Evil serves a purpose of God. Sin does NOT come to us naturally. We CHOOSE to sin. The tree of knowledge saw to that. I really believe you guys have a really twisted doctrine!
sthcrox 2 years ago
Did you ask Adam what his will was like?
berrytc44 1 year ago
God's will is what matters. Not Adam's. How about yours? Have you surrendered your will to God yet?
sthcrox 1 year ago
Man according to Lane had the remarkable ability to create only one virtue ,evil.But all other virtues of love, goodness,mercy, etc man is powerless to create >it is a wrong conclusion to think man can create any virtue even evil.
polopowers1 2 years ago
Lane went from God creating evil unto creating sin.One is a virtue (evil) and the other is action sin.God can create something not innate to His Nature.like evil. Which became a growing virtue in man revealingl mans powerless nature in relationship to sin..
polopowers1 2 years ago
Also being alone in eternity there is no objection to His "morality" God created the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL.And HE called it good because the end result Is Christ revealing God.There is no other way but by GOd creating evil to reveal the opposing virtue
polopowers1 2 years ago
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polopowers1 2 years ago
so: 1) God is our leader, provider, protector, etc., 2) leaders are held responsible for the success/failure of their people, 3) God wants credit and thanks for all the good things that happen to anyone, so 4) why doesn't God ever get held responsible for any failures?
say you have a friend who is watching you get raped and murdered. not only could they stop it, but they could do so easily and without fear of being harmed. if they didn't, would that person be a friend at all?
xrxprtyx 2 years ago
this is why i refuse to serve a God who stands by and allows evil to happen to the innocent. if you think people all maybe deserve it, then look at this towards animal cruelty. God should be held responsible for all, both good and bad, and what he does and does not do.
xrxprtyx 2 years ago
I know that we all have free will...but...couldn't God find a way to not let people be predisposed to sin? couldn't He put the tree of aknowledge somewhere else or something?...so that we couldn't reach it or be tempted to sin? if He knew what will happen...this is what I do not understand
abbielayla 2 years ago
correction on first one.. sorry.. i meant can't do anything else but believe
shockingalternative 2 years ago
This "Paul stuff" sounds very much like "goose and gander" to me. There is "biblical truth", in which everything is accepted as true according to the bible. Then there is that disturbing nuisance that's created more havoc in the world---TRUTH! Biblical writing is based on the premise that postulates the presence of god before everything happened.
ebrak47 2 years ago
The KJV error in translation in Isaiah 45:7 was copied directly and (apparently) uncritically from the Geneva Bible. Earlier English translations (Coverdale, Bishops) are closer to the NASB/NIV.
Interesting...
curvalecce 2 years ago
Oh of course, Romans 9... that's the calvinist cop-out, ain't it.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
Ahh, the Big Calvinist Paradox! God is sovereign, controls everything, knows everything, wills everything... but he isn't responsible for evil. No, man, who has no free will, somehow is. Calvinism 101...
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
I don't buy the argument that "newer" translations of the Bible are more correct than the old KJ. God created everything. We have rough so that we may know what smooth is. We have darkness so we may know what light is. We have evil so that we may know what good is. Not only did God create evil, but He let it loose in the world. If He had not done this, we would not recognise our ability to choose good over evil. Why did He bother? Not for us to know...yet.
BillyVeePersonal 2 years ago
When I build a machine, I make sure that I don't build any defects into it. Why didn't God do that? There must be a reason for doing this. Perhaps we were created as an experiment, which plainly explains why there is an end of times...the end of the experiment. My input, God, is not to create us again or you'll end up with these fanatics....yet again!
ebrak47 2 years ago
first you need to ask yourself why a self-sustaning, perfect God would create anything to begin with because He doesn't need anything. The answer it that God creates everything to display His glory.. He created man knowing full well the sin that would be come forth from His creations but even then, He receives glory whether it be showing His incredible compassion, mercy and forgiveness through Christ or displaying His magnificent wrath and perfect justice through sinners judgements.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
I see... and yet He decides who is created for eternal torment in advance... And you bow down for this monster?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
u are referring to hypercalvinism which is unbiblical. God does not create people for torment. that is totally out of alignment with God's character and serves no purpose but to distort His goodness and longsuffering. since no man seeks God and hates Him, they are racking up their own rightful judgement for breaking His laws. for some, for His own purposes and pleasure, He chooses to intervene and pay their penalty. the rest are left to deal with their own penalty, we all deserve
shockingalternative 2 years ago
the purpose of all creation is to demonstrate God's perfection and to glorify Him. Nothing is without purpose. God doesn't have to intervene to save anyone. He owes us nothing. we deserve hell but He has still chosen to intervene in the lives of some and not because they deserve it! God is glorified by those who respond in faith and love and glorified when those left to face their rightful punishment.. reveal His perfect justice and holy wrath.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Is the calvinist God or is he not totally sovereign, shocking?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
i'm not quite grasping what you're asking. laymen terms if you have to pls. :)
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Is God in full control of everything or is he not?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
yes but sometimes what seems passive to others, is merely what He is using to bring something to pass. take Judas betrayal, for instance. God didn't make Him sin or cause Him to betray Jesus but He preordained it in the sense that He allowed it to happen and used to fulfill His will for the sacrifice Jesus was to make
shockingalternative 2 years ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be Holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will..." Ephesians 1:4-5
Calvin was not a Calvinist. Predestination is Biblical!
CL121076 2 years ago
Demonstrate his perfection to whom? His upper classmen gods? Why would a deity create beings that will glorify and worship him/her? Everything is without purpose. It's called "Chaos" and there is nothing wrong with that. Everything is completely acting as a reaction to the forces around it, whether it is near or distant, or whether it is a reaction to it's past, present or future. A god doesn't need to be in this equation and it has never been.
ebrak47 2 years ago
Why do we still put our faith that there is a creator and that this creator is real? Why would he have to go to such trouble to display his glory. There shouldn't be faith. That word was created because this god they claim is real hasn't shown up YET. That's all this creator has to do. Don't send earthquakes or disasters or displays in the sky, all of which will be subject to doubt-- JUST SHOW UP! That way a lot of people will say, "Oh, God. I picked the wrong religion!"
ebrak47 2 years ago
he Lord said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8,9)." Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased
CL121076 2 years ago
man has plenty of evidence of God.. He has shown up in everything, including the breath in your lungs.. God is spirit and inhabited the body of a man in Christ Jesus. was that not revealing enough? why do men cease to submit to the one true God? simple. they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Darkness doesn't want to be exposed and stays away from the light. people believe in God; they are just rebels, who suppress all knowledge of Him due to their sin and love of it.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
The breath in my lungs, and yours, by the way, is evidence that this planet has an atmosphere. Fear of the "fires of hell" (which is not in the bible, mind you, one of them popes wrote it in to christian dogma after too much reading into Dante's Inferno) as perhaps a way to scare the "faithful" into submission or else the outcome of your "sinful" existence will be fire and damnation, righteously inflicted by the same god who said he loves you very much. Imagine that.
ebrak47 2 years ago
@ebrak47
"Hath not the potter the power over the clay of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour-- What if God willing to show his wrath, and make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he hath afore prepared unto glory."
God is willing to show his elect the wrath of evil men which are the majority.
CL121076 2 years ago
Please, God. No more displays of power and holy muscle flexing to demonstrate your wrath. Too many of YOUR beloved people die in the process, and you've killed enough. Please stop rocking our anthill. Please, no more majestic mountains and scenery and images of you and your relatives on toast to display your glory. Please, no more cryptic verses that people use to take advantage of others. I am merely one of your "creations" with a humble suggestion: SHOW UP MOTHERFUCKAH!!!
ebrak47 2 years ago
your hatred and disgusting name that you call God just shows the condition of your heart. in fact, that contempt you have for Him proves all the more what the bible says: men hate God and do not seek Him. no, they seek a god of their own making. if you wanted to seek the Almighty, truly.. i can guarantee you wouldn't be calling HIm that, no, you would tremble with humility and be awestruck.
shockingalternative 2 years ago 2
Thanks for the diagnosis, doctor. You're also acting as a judge painting me as a god hater, perhaps all in the name of biblical righteousness. You are invited to light the first match in our weekly witch torching.
I like to believe in things that are consistent, predictable and logical, that events can be explained in many ways under different lights, to take the middle ground in order not to fall into arrogance or righteousness, that I see things that are not tinged by bias.
ebrak47 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I will certainly tremble with humility, and terror (to realize I've been wrong all these years), as soon as he shows up. No, not when I die-- that's cheating. While I'm alive and lucid. That way I can email you the good news that he does exist and you can forward it to ten of your friends or god will send them to hell.
ebrak47 2 years ago
i didn't diagnose you; God's word did. everybody hates God until He changes their heart and makes it one of flesh instead of stone. i have no need to witch torch. in fact, i used to be into wicca and readily extend my hand to all, no matter their walk of life, in Christ's name.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Unless you're online with God at the moment, you are mistaken (said musically)! Interesting that you were into Wicca. What made you leave it? What does it take to give up a faith? Seriously, I know what you meant. I wrote something that ran into a religious platitude or something that automatically passed judgment on me. Shock, I am one of God's soldiers (special forces, actually). Sun Tsu wrote that if there is discord among his troops, it is the General's fault.
ebrak47 2 years ago
what made me leave wicca? God did. however the other reasons were the fact that it never satiated me, it caused me to slip further into destruction and self delusion and my heart was not in it. it was something convenient but not truly tangible. something i could use to feel good about myself and try to have control over something. btw, i'm a blond hair, blue eyed model girl, not some big man you may be envisioning on the other side of this keyboard. lol
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Oh, I did make a mistake when I referred to you as a guy. I am so embarrassed you caught that. I wasn't envisioning anything except to reach the brilliant intellect underneath your cryptic name (deep, huh?). The reasons you gave are also the same reasons others say when leaving any religion, or Jenny Craig for that matter (not enough food). What makes you believe that this is "the one?" Better yet, are you certain?
ebrak47 2 years ago
what makes me believe this is the one? because i never signed up for this. it just happened to me. something, though i have for a time, tried to stuff it down, it wells up in me, my conscience has been made alive like never before.. i feel things that my flesh would never have agreed to on its own. the kind of truth that is as hard as nails but it resonates so deeply that you do anything else but believe. it's like asking you to not breathe. once you have been given breath, you continue on
shockingalternative 2 years ago
you can't keep the breath inside of yourself,it's too painful. u can't deny what gives u life. mercy, that you as a frail, faulty human could never muster up for a person who has taken ur innocence away by rape has now been given,as it shatters the rage and pain. joy of knowing the longing for peace is over- that ive been reunited with my first love, whom i suppressed most of my life: the author of my being. I'm not ashamed to tremble at His feet.. I can only kiss the hand that has afflicted me
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Your words are profound. I am sorry for your misfortunes and also elated that you have found peace. Some might call them acceptance and moving on. If you were a Muslim, you would be praising Allah, in Japan, you would praise your ancestors. This liberation from anger, hate, disaster, illness, anguish, etc when it occurs serendipitously will make anyone conclude that it is an occurrence only attributable to a higher power. Many personify this feeling... that's when the troubles come.
ebrak47 2 years ago
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ebrak47 2 years ago
God finds pleasure in Himself. imagine that. He doesn't need to get mere human beings validation or the creations He formed to give Him affirmation. He is so perfect that He gets the glory from just being God. His perfection is clearly seen by all and yes, every knee will bow, even those in hell who hate Him. God is so awesome and great that He is without want or need.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
Wait a minute.... Are you the same guy who wrote the argument to the opposite? Earlier you wrote, "The answer it that God creates everything to display His glory"...not to us, you say now. That's like saying your creator "created" a heavenly creator-sized mirror and is continually posing in front of it.
ebrak47 2 years ago
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kabowd7 2 years ago
To say that God is evil if He "ordained" and "created" sin, is to force a standard upon God that simply does not exist. Nowhere is the "creation" or "ordaining" (as opposed to the "performing") of sin condemned in the Bible. And the reason for that is that man is incapable of "creating" or "ordaining" evil.
mattmcm75 2 years ago
Gods Glory is revealed by His providence in spite of the presence of evil..He can even use evil for His greater good. Nothing can thwart Gods purposes, not even the lack of good. Whatever God has purposed what will and has come to pass. We are culpable for the evil we commit. God does not tempt. God gave Adam the ability to sin, and not to sin. we dont have the ability to not sin. This didnt catch God by surprise. So I dont see the logic in a predestining God being the Author of evil.
bigbadwolff1 2 years ago
If God predestined the fall, then he predestined sin, and therefore predestined evil.
Is predestining and willing evil any different than being responsible for it when you're the all-powerful being? No. Period. The end.
Nice try again Mark....
Arminian100 2 years ago
Right on Arminian...
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
Isaiah 45:7
I form light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
God says light, darkness, evil and peace are a direct result of his divine power. When we do evil it is sin - when God creates evil it is righteous.
CL121076 2 years ago
That's a terrible translation of the Hebrew. The word is not "evil" and should not be translated as such for it has nothing to do with the evil "we create" vs. the evil "God creates."
Get yourself a better translation.
The Hebrew word means "calamity" or "disaster." Some other very good translations use the word "woe."
The point is that good times and bad times are brought on by God. Not that genuine evil has anything to do with God. You'll need to try again. Sorry.
Arminian100 2 years ago
He is the creator of evil
studentoflife01 2 years ago
This video avoids the real issues.
Nothing comes to pass unless God decrees it should pass. Evil comes to pass because God decreed evil to pass.
God is not evil in decreeing evil because Good is defined by God and all that He does is Good by definition because there is no higher standard than God.
God is not beneath the law but above it.
Evil exists so that God can display his Justice in wrath on vessels prepared for destruction and Mercy on the elect.
NapoleonReece 2 years ago
Sounds like what sheep would say if they could talk.
ebrak47 2 years ago
Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. -- In those who have been, by grace, humbled by the Mighty Power of God, when we have "seen" His glory and experienced His forgivness, these types of prideful arguments cease...then we can say with Eli, "It is the Lord: let him do what seemeth him good." God is not evil, He is good and righteous in all His judgments, and deserves all our praises! Glory forever to our Lord Christ Jesus!
meezernine 2 years ago
You can say that God is not evil until your face turns blue, but you contradict yourself outright when you say that He is both not evil and the source of evil since He willed evil into the world.
gambleor 2 years ago
Whatever God does is good, regardless of how you feel about it. God tells us in Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. If God chooses to do... "whatever", He is right, You see? Complaining about God's absolute right to do as He sees fit is arrogance.
meezernine 2 years ago
but that doesn't tell me how God defines sin?
gambleor 2 years ago
Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein. -- 1 John 3:4, Romans 14:23, James 4:17, 1 Cor. 15:56, James 2:9, 1 Kings 13:33-34, Proverbs 14:34,1 Kings 12:28-30, 1 Samuel 15:23...and the list goes on. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
meezernine 2 years ago
Just out of curiosity, how would you define sin?
gambleor 2 years ago
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.--Instead of asking me how I would define sin, why don't you go to the Bible and see how God defines it? Let His definitions of things be the benchmark for your understanding, not flawed human ideology, assumptions, or feelings.
meezernine 2 years ago
Alright, teach me. Tell me how God defines sin.
gambleor 2 years ago
That's not helpful at all. If God is sovereign in the sense that this guy in the video talks about, then it makes no sense that Adam could have corrupted God's creation unless it was the express will of God for Adam to fall and cause us the pain and suffering of living in sin and subjecting us to the torments of hell.
gambleor 2 years ago
Of course, if we believe that God is sovereign over all, logically God is responsible for evil; it was God's will that Adam sinned. With that knowledge, do we blame God for sending people to Hell? Does He not have the right to do as He wants? Those who have been regenerated should understand this. God has absolute free will...and He has decreed that we all deserve hell; but God so loved the world, He gave His only Son to save all those who will believe. Praise God for His mercy and Grace!
meezernine 2 years ago
Yes He has the right to do what He wants if He is sovereign over all, but He cannot be called honest and say that we deserve hell because He made us unable to meet an impossible standard. He cannot be called just if He created us evil and then punished us for succumbing to our nature. He cannot be called good and merciful if He requires the punishment and passes it off as if it were forgiveness.
gambleor 2 years ago
The fact that Jesus had to intervene to save us from God means that this is a God who is evil toward His creation and someone had to stand up to Him and say "no more."
gambleor 2 years ago
Who sets the standard for honesty, justice, or love for that matter? You? Me? God does. Thank God He doesn't "measure up" to "our" standard of honesty or justice; otherwise He would be evil! God creates something evil, and destroys it because it is evil...perfect justice. God creates evil beings who were declared to be righteous beings from before the foundations of the world and saves them...perfect mercy! We can't hold God up to ou measuring stick...to mere human wisdom. Proverbs 3:5-6
meezernine 2 years ago
I'm not sure if you completely understand what you just said. This is the exact equivalent of what you said - if I give a gun to someone, force them to shoot someone with it (since they cannot resist my command) and then I shoot the person I gave the gun to for shooting someone, I'm perfectly just. Your second statement is even more amazing than the first. If He has "perfect mercy" wouldn't salvation be for ALL people, not just the elect? I think at best, you believe in "selective mercy"
gambleor 2 years ago
I'm not sure you completely read all that I wrote. You are holding God up to "your" standard. You come up with a flawed human analogy to describe God's justice (one that makes Him unjust), and then congratulate yourself when He fails to meet your human requirements of justice. Do you know God? Consider His OldTestament law for stoning homosexuals or disobedient children. Would you call those just laws? God did! I hope by grace you can step outside of human wisdom and receive the truth.
meezernine 2 years ago
I didn't come up with a flawed analogy, it is exactly what you are claiming God did. He gave us the means to be evil, made us so that we could not resist those means and then punished us when we could not resist those means. In answer to your question though, I can answer only this - no one knows the Father except the Son and the one to whom the Son reveals Him. Your second question, I will answer with a question of my own (continued in the next post)
gambleor 2 years ago
Is it that God commands the death of homosexuals and disobedient children, or is this an excuse for us to hate that which we don't understand and/or find to be dangerous to our growth as a civilization?
gambleor 2 years ago
Psalm 50:21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
meezernine 2 years ago
If God is saying that this it is showing that He is NOT like us, in that He is not prone to evil. You on the other hand are claiming not only is He prone to evil, but He is the source of it. You are making God in man's image it seems.
gambleor 2 years ago