The Magic Flute, Act 1.4 - "Bei Männern, welche Liebe fühlen"

[jantigercat]

It sounds awkward for this duet to be sung in English!

[1Lisztener1]

This is such a lovely opera! :)

[violalxy]

This song is amazing.

[papagena92]

People!!!!! Stop arguing about other things and enjoy the movie please!!!!!!

(Personally, I found Pamina's singing a bit too weak and squeaky for my taste, but.... oh well she's not that bad. Liked Papageno a lot).

[josephonwhidbey]

"No statue was ever erected to a great critic"

Winston Churchill

[ReginaCaelestis]

So Papageno is supposed to be an American. Somehow this seems right. XD

[shamari2k9]

I agree that in stage productions there is a certain aesthetic aspect that must be satisfied, but I think the real problem is with people like j67123 who obviously don't go to these productions to appreciate the music, but to critique the characters physically.

[lindsaydenman]

this is awful

[reginaldm007]

j67123 you obviously need to work on your musicality a bit more. For me music is the ultimate expression of freedom. You expose your ignorance when you say things like Black roles should be only played by Blacks ...Freedom is not being restricted thats why we musician practice so we can have freedom on our instruments..dont bring the worlds political crap and garbage into music. you restrict that freedom...i hope your not to stupid to connect that...

[caladito]

It does not matter . . . It is a beautyfull music.

[ShawDAMAN]

way to destroy a perfectly good opera

[j67123]

You don't have to like it. I think it's pretty cool. I own two "traditional" productions of this opera on DVD. In one of them, Pamina's played by a nigger and Sarastro by a White with dark make-up. To me, THAT destroyed the opera. People are so scared of being politically incorrect these days, it makes me sick.

[ShawDAMAN]

This doesn't bother me because it's politically incorrect. I think it's artistically incorrect- I don't like opera in english generally, it's a little too silly, and the singing really isn't very good. but that's just me. Like you said, I don't have to like it, if you do, fine.

What is definitely objectionable is your use of the term "nigger." Why do you find that necessary?

[j67123]

Theater productions of this Opera in English are disgraceful. Here, they're not aiming for authenticity, so I find the English forgivable.

I use the word "nigger" when dealing with travesties perpetrated by the thought police. If they go out of their way to promote equality, I'll go out of mine to promote racism. Casting Kathleen Battle as the fair-skinned, blue-eyed Pamina is repulsive and desreves more invectives than I could ever come up with.

In general use, I use the word "black".

[ShawDAMAN]

I agree that sometimes people go overboard when trying to promote equality. But what matters to me more than anything in opera is the quality of the singing. If a black singer sings well, what's the problem with him or her being in opera?! Do you suggest that all blacks should be kept out of opera?! Because the vast majority of roles are light-skinned characters.. (except Aida and maybe a couple others.)

[j67123]

In audio recordings, I don't care who's doing the singing. In stage productions, Whites like Pamina should be White, Blacks like Monostatos should be Black, and Asians should be Asians.

It's bad enough having affirmative action in the workplace. It would be nice if people had the decency and the guts to keep it out of opera.

[ShawDAMAN]

I think your view is extreme. You can't expect all characters in every opera to be cast with singers of the absolutely "correct" nationality! Nobody cares if Pavarotti, an Italian, plays the part of Rodolfo, a Parisian; or if Aida (an Ethiopian) is played by a white person with makeup. That's how opera is. People don't go to operas for the great plot and the fantastic acting. They go for the singing. Let's face it, historically some of the best singers were not very visually compelling.

[ShawDAMAN]

Again, if you sing great, I don't really care how you look.

[FirstLifeFan]

excuse me, but that´s a very modern, very political correct attitude. it misses the point that classical music - read: opera - is first of all music. it was composed to be performed by the best possible singers available. stage productions have always been make-belief, so it shouldn´t be an issue if madame butterfly really is sung/played by a japanese performer.

[jbowmojo]

@ShawDAMAN though i agree with your dislike of the "nigger" comment i think opera works well in english, as an opera singer in training i believe as long as the translation matches the music, and the musical relation to the original text isn't ruined (by this i mean each note representing the text in pitch, rhythem, phrasing or any other stuff that you can think of) and the poetic and lyrical meaning is kept, i think its fine.

[ShawDAMAN]

@jbowmojo It *can* work well, I suppose. But too often it's a distraction, in my opinion. For instance I attended a recital a while back of excerpts from "Lucia di Lammermoor" in english. For the most part it was fine but it's just not as poetic and some parts just make you laugh, like Raymondo (the Bass character) singing in his deep voice prior to the sextet, "ooooh, my God" instead of 'gran dio' or whatever else he would have said in Italian (lol.) It just doesn't have the same 'ring.'

[ShawDAMAN]

@jbowmojo I also heard a production of la boheme in english and rodolfo singing "put your hand in my haaaand, in a while it will be waarm" just isn't the same as "che gelida manina, se la lasci riscaldar" etc. It's difficult to explain.

Best wishes with your singing though! What voice category are you?

[ShawDAMAN]

@jbowmojo oh and just as a footnote, I think english translations can be very valuable for people who like the *sound* of opera but can't get past the language hurdle. It would be nice if people would put forth the effort to look at a translation/transcript on their own, but realistically translations can make opera more 'accessible' I suppose.