Justice for Fallujah Fundraiser: Noam Chomsky (1/3)

[WastedTourist]

Cheers Chomskyan. Keep up your important work in bringing Chomsky to the internet.

[Moncayowind]

Just one of many thoughts that came to mind while viewing this video: So much for the Nobel Peace prize (won for being "the least warlike", as Chomsky describes Carter? - in the case of the latest Nobel awarded to a President, it's certainly not even that - maybe they just judge you worthy if you excel at giving lip service to "Peace"? - or to quote John Lennon, for being the best at learning "how to smile as you kill"? )

[jakiner]

@Moncayowind  Fuck yeah!

[ButherLi55ett]

I hate Noam for his mystifications and lack of explaining ideology within a complete critique of capital. why is he so reluctant to use a class understanding? he seems to talk about everything in separation never a totality. he seems to be incapable of it.

[read4liberty]

@ButherLi55ett

keep listening..maybe you'll learn someday. I mean this kindly actually.

[ButherLi55ett]

Fair enough, I will listen to the whole speech but I've listened to Chomsky countless times and my criticisms are general not just about this one video. I'm looking forward to his debate in London in a couple of weeks because I think it will address (hopefully) some criticisms I have of him. Maybe I'll ask him a question or two. And, learn what someday? You may mean it kindly but its completely vague and somewhat condescending. I mean this kindly actually!

[Marly61]

@ButherLi55ett Please present your criticisms here to help me.

[Marly61]

@ButherLi55ett I do think thought that Noam may be wrong when he states there is no connection between his understanding of linguistics and his analysis of manufacturing consent.

[RSFO]

@ButherLi55ett Noam Chomsky is a libertarian socialist and supports anarcho-syndicalism; a very technical system not based on Leninist class analyses.

[AlexHill3325]

@RSFO That made a whole lot of sense

He's a small government, pro-individual liberty supporter who at the same time supports socialism, which is heavy government regulation of trade and often oppressive system, who at the same time supports anarchism.

Throwing around political and economic labels does not make you sound smart unless you know what you're talking about.

[harmlesstree]

@AlexHill3325

Socialism has nothing, per se, to do with the government! Socialism merely constitutes the communal/worker ownership of the means of production. In a socialist economy, the workers and the community own the means of production, and administer them democratically. This does not require a nation state. Classic Anarchists/libertarians, like Bakunin, Kropotkin, Proudhon, Goldman, were anti-government socialists/communists. They were opposed to the state and to capitalism.

[RSFO]

@AlexHill3325 Socialism means democratic economy, not big government. At least it does when we talk about libertarian socialism. So please go teach me about sounding smart, will you?

[ButherLi55ett]

Are you suggesting you have to be a Leninist to have a class understanding? I have read plenty of anarchos with a good understanding of class and who actually have it within their critique of things that actually happen in the world (along with economics, alienation etc). It's amazing, comrade but it is actually possible.

[RSFO]

@ButherLi55ett Alright then, point taken. Maybe I am a little fearful of using that term. I do think Marx was right about some of his class analyses, and they still are true, but should be seen in a modern perspective. And well, people already do that. I only wish they'd move more into intellectual honesty like Noam Chomsky than they already do.

[ButherLi55ett]

@RSFO I too take some of my criticism back. He isn't as mystifying or vulgar as I claimed...his occasional slip into moralism does annoy though, sometimes he is a bit anti-materialist but that's always going to come out in his politics I think.

[RSFO]

@ButherLi55ett I must admit that I have not found any definition of materialism that could satisfy me. I think C.S. Peirce's fallibilism (or any other fashion of classical skepticism) is a fine and sufficient road to honesty.

[spartan2600]

@ButherLi55ett Is he supposed to say that the Bourgeoisie are the ones who bombed the Hospital in Fallujah?

[ButherLi55ett]

He can if he likes but that would be a crude and pretty pointless class 'anaylsis'.

[Marly61]

@ButherLi55ett I don't think you understand Noam at all. Noam constantly explains his positions in terms of a "class". Research it, you are wrong.

[ButherLi55ett]

Fair dooz, maybe I'll steal a few of his books then.

[EastofModernity]

I am trying to think which crimes we have learned from: none come to mind. I think even of African chattel slavery, and you still have educated liberals - many my professors at Washington University - who justify the forced import of slave labor as benefitting the Africans stolen, and what we did FOR the continent during colonization. Or, Native American extermination: simply erased from history altogether. I can't think of one example of where we have evolved ...

[DuffmanIRL]

Great quality video and sound well done and thanks for posting this.

[youngbuck189]

The United States is a polyarchy.

[dpapaioannow]

@youngbuck189 wrong its an oligarchy a few rich bastards who think they can own and control everyone and everything...capitalism is a disease and must be destroyed any way possible wherever its being applied anywhere on the planet,if it takes war then so be it,who said that revolutions arent bloody?PROLETARIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE

[jacksawild]

@dpapaioannow power to the people.

[colourmegone]

As Athens found over 2000 years ago, empire and democracy are incompatible. You can have one but not both.

[InitiumNovum]

@colourmegone - Well the Greeks did not have democracy as we understand it today; most people were not classified as citizens. The point is that an Empire is not democratic by definition as the subjugated states (and their citizens) don't get a say in things. Empires always wane because sooner or later they become overstretched and vulnerable in too many areas.