Heck yeah! Squall is bad ass...ff8 had such a well developed world with a story that had tons of potential for continuity. 7 is fun, I like the materia system and all. But the characters, story and setting were sooooo boring. Too much of a steam punk mess. I think alot of people misinterpret nostalgia for quality. Alot of people didn't like the junctioning system in 8 though, not sure why. Once you get used to it, it's pretty sick. Still I own both 7 and 8 lol.
Squall is by all means a better warrrior,more trained,more focused.. But you cant downplay Cloud, Seph took away everything that he loved.. His hero his love.. Played with his mind .. Cloud was soul searching for like 80% of VII, The biggest obstacle for both heroes was Realization, Cloud needed to realize who he really was, Squall needed to realize that he needs to connect with his emotions.
Both at the start were stoic warriors,Then grew on to be themselves.
Titus from FFX owns all, just needs one basic hit to bring down Chaos from FFI and the Emperor from FFII. Heck, he could even solo Zeromus. I hope Wakka is going to be in the next game, he pwns, he would hit Zidane with a blitzball and make him cry like a bitch lol! :D
I feel like squall has a lot more miltary than cloud remember the fact that Squall went to a school that trained expert soldiers. Though cloud ran of to join the army he did receive even close to the amount of training of that of squall. But I'm a FFVII fanboy Cloud Wins.
I swear people only like Cloud because of his hair and his sword, and I bet you most people only focus on that rather then gameplay. How do I know this? I found a girl on facebook who only watches advent children and yet she thinks she's a FF7 fan and guess what? You guessed it she somehow likes "Cloud" for illogical reasons. I liked Cloud at first i'll admit it but when I compare them both I liked Squall and his personality better.
@RawrNero How? If you ask me, Cloud and Squall in relation with their swordsmanship, skills and personality, they're practically the same, if they were to switch places, there would be no difference, heroes are heroes, if you were to put them fighting it would be draw, so stop fighting for stupid things.
the editing was great but the fight was lame. squall kept doing the same attacks and stuff. what lv were you when this fight took place?? it would've been alot more interesting to see a lv 100 vs lv100 with CPU settings at vicious and 7~9 of CPU strength. Very great editing skills though i liked it.
Squall rules!!!!!!!!! he doesn't have pussy attacks ( attacks that branch from a circle attack to a square attack ) but still cloud is fun to play as and has overwhelming reach so pretty much its a tie but to me squall rules!!!!!! :P
All right, should I remind you that Cloud defeated Sephiroth(who's practically a demigod) TWO times with his TWO ultimate techniques Omnislash and Omnislash V5, killed Bahamut SIN with a slash, Destroyed the Weapons Ruby, Emerald,Omega and Diamond(4 MONSTERS,Emerald and Ruby are far harder to beat that any boss of FF8, especially Emerald which one you need an especial materia to defeat it) and to knock down he has an appearance in FFT as a Secret Character,so ¿Can Squall claim that?
@Leonix066 Alright obviously you know very little of FF8 History. The Sorceress Powers come from directly from Hyne, in fact they also build up over time cumulatively in some sorceresses as well. Hyne, so you know=God, In other words a Sorceress is a goddess on Earth walking around waving power. While Squall can't claim to have destroyed Ruby, Emerald or Diamond Weapon, he DID in fact defeat the superior Omega weapon who btw doesn't even SHOW UP in FF7, you're referring to the inferior Ultima
@ADDKyuubiNaruto You mean that weapon, I easily defeated it, Emerald is the more rough of the four I tried to kill it like 12 times and I don't know how I defeated it Because it launches an attack who takes 9999 to all the party when it is in Crit state.
@Leonix066 FF games always give you ways to defend against such attacks one way or another, And Omega weapon still has a more dangerous limit break when it lets loose it's 4K damage per hitx16 attack Terra Break. Omega Weapon overall has better stats and lets loose more damage as well as absorbs all elemental attacks, has LVL5 Death and has a few other 1-hit KO attacks.
@Leonix066 *Ultima weapon, furthermore neither of cloud's "ultimate attacks" surpass Lionheart in raw damage either, sorry, one isn't canon and the other is inferior. Your last method of defense seems to be regarding the "Hype" given to Cloud for being the bandwagon game. I'm sorry but the fact that you need to use that to defend Cloud being a superior character does not help your cause. Squall is a SeeD, mercenary Child Soldier, A Commander at the very same age of 18 and trained in various-
@Leonix066 fields as well as that world's most difficult weapon, a Sorceress Knight, the savior of time, space, the world and everything alive in every dimension. He's fought the Strongest Summon of all, and it is quite literally the strongest because Ultimecia drew Griever from HIS MIND AS HIS MIND SAW SAID GF. He fought and beat it while any of his dead comrades were erased from time, Cloud needed his entire party just to fight Sephy and a half naked, bleeding weak sephy was all he could beat
@ADDKyuubiNaruto You're wrong I practically finished it but for some strange reason when i killed Ultimecia fusioned with Gryphus the game blocked and after all ask the FF fans wthat they think and we can talk later
I like how the video was made to look like an actual fight between these two, but it has too much of Cloud beating up Squall, and not enough of Squall beating up Cloud. Especially if Squall was the one who defeated Cloud. All in all though, this video was very well made. Thumbs up.
if i was playing that Squall. That Cloud would not have seen the light of day ever again. Not to be rude. But i am a master of Squall in Dissidia. This video dissapionted me. Squal could of dodged all of those attacks by Cloud. Clouds attack are rather slow but strong. And it takes a noob to get hit by them repeatedly. I would have taken advatadge of that soo easily. And would dish out some severe pain. Maybe some Mystic Furry then a Revolver Drive.
@ProudFinn1 Just cause' you fight well with him in Dissidia doesn't means that Cloud is weaker than him, I played both FF7 and FF8, I like them both but in my opinion Cloud is stronger cause Shin-Ra experimented with him whose give super human strenght and agility to him, plus i think he's cooler than Squall as I see in KH2 cause in last scene of the Heartless War Squall just scream and Cloud tell him to "Relax"
@Leonix066 Sorry dude but we can't use "Dissidia" or KH as examples, they both pussify the characters and even more so in Squall's Case. Squall's Lionheart attack alone does more damage than any other character's limit break in the entire series including FFX as well, that's just from gameplay standpoint. From Story-line standpoint Cloud saved "the world" from a meteor and beat Sephiroth, big deal. You wanna know what Squall did conceptually? I'll explain in another comment post XD
@ADDKyuubiNaruto "Squall's Lionheart attack alone does more damage than any other character's limit break in the entire series.." well, zell can kill omega weapon in 1 turn while it takes at least 2 turns for squall to kill him that is, IF you get lucky and proc lionheart twice in a row.. just saying.. =p
@ponkadolz To be fair, Squall's Attack is invariable, Zell's does still take in the whole defense thing and requires the player to KNOW what he's doing and have some skill as well. But even so, that just proves Cloud can't even beat Zell ;D
@Leonix066 Moving on(and sorry for this) Anyways, Squall survived time compression through sheer fucking belief alone, proceeded to beat every obstacle Ultimecia threw his way, Beat the manifestation of the strongest GF as depicted and drawn from his own mind, defeated Ultimecia who controls space, time and the fabric of existence as well, survived the end of time AGAIN and caused the paradox needed for SeeD to be created and finally saved existence itself. Can Cloud claim that?
@Leonix066@Leonix066 Your analogy is not valid. Sequel is just based on the popularity of the gameplay not the actual character itself. And face it Cloud only saves only one planet, Squall was 17 when he created SeeD and he saved the universe, now stop your illogical fanboy crap and face reality.
Finally someone puts Cloud fanboys/fangirls in their place! Cloud defeated sephiroth and saved earth... and so What? Squall saved the universe, he saved existance itself as you said! xD. No way to compare them both.
@Goobster1920 lol "Cloud fought Sephiroth in his normal form and won" sure....if u call "off-guard" as a "normal form" and sneak attack as "fought" XD, Cloud sure is a very honourable SOLDIER indeed lol....wait wait....oh hell...he wasn't even in SOLDIER lmao...
oh btw...Zack is the one who got Cloud out from imprisonment at Shinra Mansion. So rather than I show u how Zack is stronger, why dun u show us how Cloud is stronger? Other than the freakish sneak atk in Nibelheim mako reactor :)
@seenoong What are you talking about? Cloud fought Sephiroth one on one in both FF7 and Advent Children. Zack got smoked by Sephiroth like a tiny baby. Cloud, though he isn't stronger than Sephiroth, was still not only able to hold his own he was even eventually able to defeat him. Seriously, Zack has NEVER shown himself to be stronger than Cloud, with the exception of BEFORE Cloud was actually strong. I have NO idea why he has such a following of devoted fans. He wasn't very important at all.
@Goobster1920 "He wasn't very important at all" LOL ...do you realise what you are saying now?! NO ZACK FAIR, NO CLOUD STRIFE IN THE FIRST PLACE! lmao I wonder if you have play/watch thru the whole Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 (with the exception of main game and AC) :p No other fanboy/fangirl of FF7 have ever dismiss the importance of Zack Fair. To say something like what you did is utter disrespect and shows just how much u know about the history of Cloud - how he became what he is now.
@seenoong Well, maybe that's because I'm not an FF7 fanboy. I look at the character for what he is. He was just a side character tossed in to provide a twist in the plot. He got about 5 minutes of screen time.
@Goobster1920 XD Who cares about whether you are an FF7 fanboy or not? I am not a total FF7 geek either :D but I read their stories AS A FINAL FANTASY FAN. lol who are you talking about having a 5 min screen time? Zack Fair? loooool I am laughing so hard now...XD I was right. You didn't play Crisis Core, did you? No matter then :D I forgive you for the ignorance. That explains why you do not know the significance of this special character, Zack Fair and the impact he had on the lives of so many.
@seenoong They made Crisis Core because Zack got a ton of fans and they wanted more money. THAT is why Crisis Core even came into existence. Look at him originally. He's in, like, 2 flash backs and that's it.
@Goobster1920 looooool again you are only seeing the main game >.< tsk tsk.....the story of FF7 is more than just the main game. You need to see the bigger picture lol
@seenoong The main game is the original FF7. Everything else came into existence because they wanted more money. Crisis Core wasn't originally a part of the FF7 universe. That game came into existence later, once the developers figured out they could milk more money from the thing. Honestly, there are a ton of contradictions among the FF7 spin offs. The reactor scene alone is different in almost every one.
@Goobster1920 oh btw, before you get too smug, may I remind you that Sephiroth had very different relationship with both Zack and Cloud. Whilst Cloud may have no qualms to kill Sephiroth (albeit from behind) :p, Zack has a closer relationship with Sephiroth - he was Zack's childhood hero and having to kill his mentor by this own hands already, do you honestly think it was easy for Zack to do that again? lol Zack worshipped that freak! XD So please be fair :p
@seenoong I'm having trouble seeing the relevance of all this. Who cares about Clouds relationship with Sephiroth? This is all irrelevant information. It has no bearing on who is stronger, at all.
@Goobster1920 it is important facts and stories. To all true fans of Final Fantasy anyway :) maybe not to you :D Maybe all you cared about is "who is stronger" lmao...instead of character development and the stories behind each heroes and villains alike :p
@Goobster1920 Actually, I do not even remember how we started in the first place lmao....@.@ too many spams now that I am beginning to lose interest XD
@17xsjf FINALLY! People rational enough to realise that and not like the legions of Cloud's fanboys/fangirls who loves just for the sake of love! :D I wanted to say that a long time ago lol...
@Goobster1920 lol "why did Cloud beat the single most powerful warrior of the FF7 universe?" Answer: a freak accident maybe? :D Cloud defeated Sephiroth in Crisis Core because he sneaked up from behind :p...caught poor Sephiroth off-guard lol while he had plenty of allies' help in FF7 and Advent Children xD try to do that purely alone without any help (spiritual or not) and see if he can win :) oh btw, Cloud's sword, life and memories, all belongs to Zack. Even Zack's gf, Aerith, so pls respect.
@seenoong Actually, Cloud defeated Sephiroth by himself in both FF7 and Advent Children so...... Regardless, I'm already aware of the fact that Sephiroth is stronger than Cloud. Also, what does it matter if Clouds sword and memories were originally Zacks? That holds no bearing over who is stronger, and Cloud is far stronger than Zack.
@Goobster1920 Cloud and Sephiroth's fight at the end of FF7 was an spiritual fight in the Lifestream, Sephiroth is stated to be in a superior level than Cloud.
Prove to us, Goobster, that Cloud is stronger than Zack, then.
@Goobster1920 ROFL it matters everything silly xD. Without Zack Fair, there would not even be a Cloud Strife lol....you are arguing that Cloud is stronger just by his defeating Sephiroth? LMAO, kiddo, every game will have the protagonist win, no matter how, in the end :D
Rather than their combat prowess, show me that Cloud is a better character than Zack Fair or any other heroes from the Final Fantasy world, for that matter. Cloud was a weakling and will always live with the legacy of Zack :)
@seenoong What? I would think him defeating someone who smoked Zack as if he were just a breeze would be enough to show him better. You claim Zack is stronger than Cloud, but you cannot even defend that. Where is the evidence? Where is the logic behind this radical claim? Zack is a nobody. Brought in only to provide a quick plot twist, nothing more. They didn't even bother thinking up an important sounding name for him. They just stuck him with Zack. Stop acting like he is so special. He isn't.
@Goobster1920 XD I never said that Zack is "stronger" than Cloud - not after his death anyway :D show me where I've said Zack is stronger. I only asked that you show us Cloud is a "better" character than Zack Fair. You still do not get it, don't you? tsk tsk....lemme repeat it again then because I am so patient :D
CLOUD IS THE NOBODY WITHOUT ZACK FAIR. CLOUD WAS LIVING IN ZACK'S LEGACY (AND SHADOW). ALL CLOUD WANTED AND HAVE BELONGS TO ZACK. Stop acting like Cloud is a God - HE IS NOT :D
@seenoong When did I say Cloud was a god? I sure hope you aren't saying Zack is more important than Cloud, who is only, I don't know, the main character of the game. No, of course not. The REAL important dude is the unplayable side character who pops up in about 5 minutes worth of flashbacks in the game. I have no idea why you love Zack so much, but you need to stop pretending he's more than he is. He's a plot twist side character turned money making spin off. Nothing more.
@Goobster1920 lol lemme see...Kingdom Hearts, Ehrgeiz, Itadaki Street Special, Chocobo Racing..those are spin-offs; Crisis Core is a prequel :) - spin-offs have nothing to do with the main story, but prequel shows events prior to the main story :)
I think you need to have a broader mind because FF7 is one of the most complex and thought-out story in the whole series - that's why Square Enix made Compilation of it. I can see that you have not even play Crisis Core :D that's why you don't
@seenoong Oh I've played Crisis Core. I can see exactly what it is. Zack became famous, so they gave him a game for more money. It's pretty simple really. Zack was originally a noboby, then he got a ton of people who loved him for no apparent reason, and they said. Gee, I bet I could sell a game to those people. And thus Crisis Core was born. Do not pretend the developers had always planned on that story.
@Goobster1920 My friend, Zack was not a nobody. HE WAS A 1ST CLASS SOLDIER XD. People loved him because he saved our dear Cloud. HE IS A HERO! XD. And because he is cute with Aerith :) . Perhaps you cannot understand the emotions that many gamers had when Zack died (just like when Aerith died too). I was one of those legions of gamers who cried and really, it was the first time I ever cried in a game. Do you know that Crisis Core was the last game created for the Compilation of FF7? :)
@seenoong You cried? How? Zack wasn't introduced long enough for the audience to become sympathetic for him. Like I said, he had about 5 minutes worth of screen time.
I really doubt Crisis Core is going to be the last. I'm betting a few years pass, they figure out they might be able to milk little more money out of it and BAM! a prequel staring Sephiroth or something.
@Goobster1920 loooool....my friend, again you are only looking within the main game :D whereas I was referring to the whole world of FF7. You know, you can view through so many videos of tributes to Zack here too :p and see for yourself if Zack deserves so little of your respect :)
@seenoong The main game is the more important of the reference points, and in it Zack is unimportant. Like I said, he only became important LATER after he got such a big fan following.
@Goobster1920 LOL Goobster1920, try to think logically please, if Zack is sooooo unimportant or minor as you said he is or should be :p then why does he have so many fans? :D why does Square Enix even bother to add more scenes of Zack in Advent Children Complete? Why was Crisis Core such a hit? XD If Square Enix only cares about profits (not that I mind :p since a game is still a business) they could talk about other characters but noooooo...they expanded on Zack, the living legacy of Cloud :D
@seenoong Do you know Death Note? There was a character on that show that was on screen for literally five minutes. I'm not joking. I think his name was Matt. Anyway, his five minutes got him whole sites dedicated to him. He became immensely popular. Characters don't have to be important to become famous. Crisis Core was a hit because people already loved Zack when it came out, which is also WHY it came out, might I add.
@Goobster1920 :D Dude, do you why Matt was well-liked? It's because he willingly sacrificed himself for Mello's cause :p - Death Note is my fave anime, my friend :). But I don't think that he became "immensely" popular-that's a little exaggerated. Ah ha...you admitted it. Why do people loves Zack even before Crisis Core came out? :) I rest my case.
@seenoong Because of the Matt effect. And he IS immensely popular. People have whole Youtube and Deviantart accounts dedicated solely to him. He's almost as famous the main characters! For what? Because he popped up for 5 minutes and got shot? Seriously? That must be what it takes to make a character famous. They pop up for five minutes, and then they get shot and die. And all the sudden everyone loves them. I find it ridiculous. That was Zack, and that's why Crisis Core came out.
@Goobster1920 LooooooooL Matt and Zack have totally different roles. Does Matt leave any effects on either Light or N? Was he related to them in some way? :D What you find ridiculous is because you are too stubborn to accept the obvious truth in your face. Read more, my friend, the scenario writer of FF7 said the story of Crisis Core had been cooking for more than 10 years and Zack was ALREADY important BEFORE Crisis Core came out. XD Crisis Core only helped to elevate his popularity.
@seenoong Zack became famous before Crisis Core, I know that. Why? Because of the Matt effect. An unimportant character becoming popular despite his unimportantness. If Zack was so important, why did he only get a few minutes of screen time? If he was such an important character, why is he not seen other than a few flash backs when they needed to do a plot twist? Why did what we saw of him in FF7 differ from Crisis Core if he was always suppose to be that important?
@Goobster1920 *yawns* lol again you are basing the importance a character has on his screen time...zzz. Look past the screen time thing, dude and instead look at the character's role in the storyline. And most importantly the direct influence that character has on the hero. You keep talking about plot twist. What plot twist? There is NO plot twist. You said so yourself that everything was already explained in the MAIN GAME. So what plot twist? XD Aren't you contradicting yourself? :p
@seenoong The fact that Clouds memories weren't his own was a plot twist. It then goes on to explain everything, but that doesn't mean plot twists can't exist, does it? Of course not.
@Goobster1920 *yawns* and Cloud's memories was whose? His mother? :p or perhaps his father now? lol....wait wait....I know! Maybe it belongs to Tseng! :O lmao....
@Goobster1920 Allow me to give you a better example of a plot twist :) Do you know this anime, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2? In the anime, the protagonist, Lelouch wants to kill his own father and destroy Britannia to avenge his mother's death because he believes that his father abandoned his family. BUT in the very last few episodes, Lelouch finally knows that his mother actually had a sinister plan for the world that they lived in. So what Lelouch had been doing was actually futile.
@Goobster1920 even know the difference between spin-off and prequel lol and the events that happen prior to the story in the main game. Do you know why Cloud has so much angst? Do you know where he got his iconic Buster Sword? Do you know why he is affected by Sephiroth so much? Do you know why Aerith treats him like a certain someone? :) All of these are explained if you have play Crisis Core. LOL complete that game my friend before you call it a "nothing more" :D
@seenoong I've played it. Also, ALL those questions were answered in the original FF7. Nice try though. Crisis Core wasn't originally a part of the FF7 story. It only came into existence later to make more money. They didn't even do a very good job of keeping to the original game. The reactor scene is evidence enough of that.
@Goobster1920@Goobster1920 oh btw, I have just watched the latest FF7: Advent Children Complete and I urge you to watch it as soon as possible if you have not done so :D
It has many new additional scenes and you should see for yourself what are those xD I don't want to spoil it by giving away spoiler :p
I hate to disagree with you, Zack was very important, think about it, Cloud had his memories and acted as he was Zack, he fought in the same manner as Zack, and learned everything Zack learned. Zack died, and had no chance to prove he was stronger, but to say he was not as important? Well, if no Zack, no Cloud. Cloud became Zack, and he could have not acted the way he did nor events occured if not Zack's existence. Zack changed the events in the story, even in his death he does.
@squallthegriever *psst*.... :) actually, Zack already proved his importance - he saved Cloud. As simple as that - without him, there would not even be our dear protagonist :D
Oh and btw, Zack awoke from 4 years of experimentation while Cloud succumbed into a vegetative state :p however, I should be fair and maybe overlook this fact? lol XD
Don't tell Goobster1920 though - I doubt he can understand :D
Of course, every event in a game or story has to have its importance, specially ifits a character saving another one. When it comes to will power Cloud has none, thats his personality, that is why even though he beats Sephiroth in the end Seph wins, he comes back, Cloud is too mentally weak. That is why i believe in a battle Squall will win, he has pure will power, and wont fall for sephs comments, same with Zack, more will power.
@squallthegriever A pure proof of the tremendous will-power the FF8 characters have is that they survived Time Compression. During the story, Squall's mental balance was moderate, due of his past and stuff, but he could overcome all of that and was able to lead the whole Garden to victory, was able to go out to space without training to save Rinoa and could trust his friends to the max to prevent themselves being absorbed by Ultimecia's final form.
@squallthegriever Squall's mental power is so strong that allowed Ultimecia to extract Griever from his thoughts and make it the most powerful GF in existence. Squall wouldn't fall for Sephiroth's trick and mockeries, he's too focused on battle.
I agree man. Squall in over all, is a better character than Cloud. Example
Power: Cloud 9, Squalls 9, Speed Cloud 7 Squall 9, Skills Cloud 7, Squall 9. Squall is not perfect but in the end his abilities and talents and power as a whole win. Squall and Sephiroth make perfect sparing partners. Sephiroth be calling Squall a punk and pussy and oh ur mommy died, and Squall will just say, : yeah, well cut your hair fag.
@squallthegriever Indeed. Lmao! xD You're right, Sephiroth would say: "It's good to see you, Squall..." and Squall would say: "Shut the fuck up and fight, moron". Oh! And remember when you start their games? Cloud is at level 6 in his game whereas Squall is at level 7 in his one! So even in the beginning of their default levels Squall is more experienced than Cloud.
@17xsjf i do not care of that, in the end though the levels are irrelevant. Cause its just part of the game to grow and level up, just the story should be more of evident of who was a born fighter Squall at age 17 was as power as Cloud at 21, at 17 Cloud is a no one to Squall. but we do now that Squall has more of an edge over Cloud Since Squall is just better suited for fights same power faster,smarter and of course he finished off to death the enemies.
@squallthegriever I know, but I was pointing out that fact since you brought up their stats, which by the way, are also part of the game. I was just saying Squall had one level more than Cloud. You're right, Cloud at that age was a nobody, he was one of those blue guys we beat all the time during the game. Squall in the other hand, was already a master. One Galbadian soldier would beat Cloud at that age, and Galbadian soldiers aren't even comparable to SeeD members. So you can imagine.
Well both the regular soldiers from 7 and 8 (which funny how in Crisis Core they look more like 8 model not 7) Were at that type of level. Squall would have owned all them 7 soldiers at age 15, since he use to use regular swords and switched to Gunblade 2 years after. Honestly, I think Tifa may want more of squall, plus Yuffie would fine him more appealing since closer age and Squall had a group of normal people, he was the only superhuman one. Clouds team was all superhumans.
@squallthegriever No, that is actually incorrect. SeeDs ARE all super-humans, enhanced via GFs and Para-Magic power, thus Squall wasn't the only one. And for Cloud's party, they aren't super-human, Cloud is.
@17xsjf not actually, if you think about it, story wise Rinoa used her dog in battles she had no actual weapon, the rest were not as powerful as Squall, they were powerful, but not super powerful like him, and Tifa has more super human strength alone more than Zell, and Irvine and and his party. Cloud had a better team, that is why Squall was and is better, he must of fought more than his party. its just logical in the story. Squall also takes a nasty magic stab in his chest, cloud..thin blade
@squallthegriever I am terribly sorry, friend, but you are just incorrect.
Rinoa became a Sorceress and had Edea's and Adel's power, she's super-human. Irvine is not super-human because he's from Galbadia Garden, he hadn't the kind of training Balamb has for their students, as such, he has never used a GF, he's just probably a skilled fighter and the best marksman in the world.
Only Cloud and Vincent are super-humans, the rest of the party are just humans.
Ur forgetting that Tifa was expose to Mako, she is a superhuman, why else would she be as powerful as she is? Also in the FF world all the main character are more powerful that any human.
For the 13 thing its much funner that 12. 12 was a boring game for me, ... i am happy vaan is not the character the chose. Have you heard the 12 fans... i mean doubt Tidus can beat Squall, or Cloud or WoL, or Firion, but they think Vaan can own tidus.. sad.
@squallthegriever What are you talking about? Tifa wasn't and it isn't a member of SOLDIER, so I don't know what you mean by "she was expose to mako", explain that to me. Cloud's genetically modified through Jenova Cells AND Mako, HE IS super-human, the same as Vincent, Tifa is NOT super-human. She's a strong martial fighter, that is all. Martial fighters are physically strong, that's common.
Really? I DO THINK Vaan is stronger than Tidus though. But I won't argue that.
@17xsjf hmmm then i must got my story wrong.. i have not beaten 7 since 2005 that was the last time I played it, before the movie, because the new 7 fans love Cloud and he has no weaknesses apparently. Really? I would assume Vaan is just a typical kid, i never liked him. Nor his voice. Jetch though, in Dissidia is a beast. What characters do you wanna see in Dissidia 2, which is actually being talked about in SE.
@squallthegriever Yes, I don't like him either, I think Vaan is kind of... empty, an empty character, although if you play FF12 Revenant Wings you will like it, he changes a lot. FF12 is like Star Wars! xDD I wanna see Seifer, Zell, Seymour, Vaan (really), Garnet, Rinoa and probably Zack. You? :D And wow, their are talking about Dissidia 2?
i would love also Captain whatever his name is.. from 9 i forgot his name but he is realy powerful, and bad ass, be cool if he was a slower but stronger version of onion knight
@squallthegriever And you saw Squall's hit? Is by default on 255%. Squall's Lion Heart does more damage and deals more hits than Cloud's Omnislash. Hell, he already knows that amazing and powerful skill called Renzokuken that is stronger than all of Cloud's Limit Breaks with the exception of Omnislash, but the most important thing is that he already have it learned from the start of the story! :D
@seenoong You realize I can read it right here, right? Zack may have been important in carrying along the story line but guess what, so are all the original members of Avalanche who got killed off in the beginning of the game. Without them, the game wouldn't have advanced as it did. I wouldn't call them important characters though.
@Goobster1920 No my friend. AVALANCHE did not have any impact on the life of our dear protagonist :D Zack did...in a BIG way. AVALANCHE did NOT save our hero's life and tell him "to live on". AVALANCHE did NOT give our hero, the Buster Sword. AVALANCHE did NOT tell our hero that "you'll be my living legacy" :p which caused our dear hero to develop a false persona throughout the main game :D
@seenoong Really? Avalance was the whole reason Cloud started the game. None of the events of the game would have taken place had AVALANCHE not been there to start it off. Just because they didn't save his life, doesn't mean they weren't important to the story. But, even though they were important for moving the story along, as characters they weren't important at all.
@Goobster1920 loooool now I am getting more and more amuse XD so basically you are saying that EVERYONE else is nobody aka unimportant in FF7 except dear Cloud...lmao....Do not try to deny please because really, that is what I have been reading all these time XD
Zack is a nobody...AVALANCHE as characters weren't important at all....*yawns*...XD yeah right...so a whole story/game can be progressed only by 1 person :D heheheheh.....how amusing...
lol what is with all the profanities over a game? :p
My personal opinion? Squall is a true SeeD, Cloud is a wannabe SOLDIER :D
Cloud was so weak that he was even shown as throwing up in Crisis Core :p and would have been dead had it not been for Zack. His sword, his life, his memories...all given to him by Zack Fair...heck even Zack's girlfriend, Aerith :)
@fangs17 Cloud is a boring character, probably the most boring Final Fantasy Hero if you don't count the first three where character development wasn't huge.
@funkysnow116 Suck my dick you fucking ugly ass shit head. Stop being such a fuck face pussy and go the fuck away you dumb shit. Cloud is NOT my favorite character, but ITS FUCKING OBVIOUS THAT HE WOULD RAPE SQUALL. HE'S GENETICALLY MODIFIED, SQUALL IS NOT.
Use your head you cock sucking fat men fucking fag.
@fangs17 Squall is magically enhanced via GFs and a more experienced warrior than Cloud, hands down. Cloud's not the strongest, there are tons of more powerful characters than him and they aren't "genetically modified". Squall was already an elite at the age of 17, whereas Cloud was just a mere infantry man without experience with a damn blade. Elite > Infantry. Cloud fought a mutated being whereas Squall fought against TIME itself.
@17xsjf Oh come on, this debate is still going on? 17xsjf, didn't we already talk about the "Clouds Past" argument? The fact that he USED to be weak is irrelevant. He isn't anymore. Stick with the present. Also, might I remind you that Squall didn't fight Ultimicia by himself. You CANNOT give him, alone, credit for that fight. Regardless of how many times you try.
@Goobster1920 Hey, seriously, it is very relevant actually. You see how both started and almost at the same age, if you wanna stick with their present, then let's take into account how much they got strong, I'd say Squall got stronger than Cloud by the fact he was by far stronger in the beginning. A lot more experienced, a master of his blade, an elite warrior and the best SeeD, AT THE SAME AGE. That's it. Cloud was just an infantry, one of those blue guys.
I agree, Squall at age 17 was and as powerful, and a bit more skilled than Cloud is at age 21. I mean, once Squall reaches age 21, he can be much more powerful, also alone Squall already is a faster, more tactical, and smarter fighter. Not include he can do the same amount of damage with his triggered slashes at a 3x rate rate than Cloud. Squall also fights for his pride, and blood. Cloud is more of a OMG a fight OH NOOOO!
@17xsjf But that was BEFORE Cloud got strong. It isn't his training that gives him his power, so bringing up the fact that he has no training does NOT show a lack of power.
@Goobster1920 But Squall was ALREADY strong. Training and battles are important, how comes you say that? Yeah, but some Jenova cells and mako aren't enough if you hadn't experience. Squall's powers also comes from the GFs and Para-Magic, not only experienced, so. Squall still has the edge. Cloud has a lack of power, yes.
@Goobster1920 But Squall was ALREADY strong. Yes, Cloud lacks proper training with a blade, he was just an infantry with a rifle, man, thus he lacks abilities and capabilities in battle. Deal with it. Also, some cells and mako aren't enough if you aren't a good fighter. Power alone isn't everything. Squall had both. Cloud was nothing.
@17xsjf Cloud can handle himself just fine. He takes on Sephiroth, who is the greatest swordsman on the planet. Weather that swordsman ship came from the Jenova Cells, I don't know. All I know is he had it after the process. It was the Jenova Cell experiment that turned Cloud into the powerful fighter you see him as now. Infantry Cloud and FF7 Cloud are two completely different people in terms of fighting ability. He didn't get his strength from training.
@Goobster1920 Man, you do not understand what I'm saying here. Im not talking about "power" or "enhancements", Im talking about experience in battle, something that that greatest swordsman of yours had, not only power from enhancements, Cloud can't gain experience in combat by having Mako and cells, he must fight. That's liek saying that Squall's experience in battle comes from the GFs, we know that's aside. GFs are enhancements. Squall was already a master of his own weapon.
@17xsjf No, I understand perfectly what your saying. But Cloud fought Sephiroth, so he HAS experience enough with a blade to go toe to toe with the greatest swordsman on the planet. I don't know where he got it, but he has it now. He may not have had it in his infantry days, but some how some way he has it now.
@Goobster1920 Toe to toe? Lmao, your joking, Sephiroth is far stronger than Cloud. And they had only an spiritual fight in the Lifestream at the end of FF7, Cloud's will surpased Sephiroth's. The point is that Squall ALREADY was strong, he wasn't an infantry or just a mere student, he was an Elite and a master swordsman, then a SeeD, then the best of them. At Cloud's same age.
@17xsjf And I'm telling you that isn't even mildly important. Clouds skill doesn't come from training. So the fact that he has none is irrelevant, cause that's not where he gets his skill. You get it? And yes, though Sephiroth is stronger, Cloud was still able to fight against him, so he has to have skill with the blade inorder to fight the greatest swordsman on the planet. Oh, and we've been over the "spiritual battle" argument. It still doesn't hold up.
@Goobster1920 No, because he doesnt get skills with the enhancements, he gets skills by fighting, so he had skills with a rifle, because he fought with a rifle once he joined as an infantry, at the same age another guy was already a master swordsman and Elite. But he fought toe to toe? No. Sephiroth was playing, if he could have cared a little, Sephiroth would have killed Cloud in a blink of an eye.
@17xsjf No, 17xjf, Cloud switch from a rifle to a sword after the enhancements. It doesn't make sense, but it happened. Cloud got good with the sword really fast. Even though Sephiroth wasn't using his full ability, it still takes a fair amount of skill to be able to fight him at all. Cloud is skilled with the blade, no one is going to deny that. He didn't have training, but he got good somehow.
@Goobster1920 Cloud switched the rifle because Zack gave him his sword. Zack is important, just like Aeris is, I don't like Zack but a good educated fan of the series can't deny it.
@17xsjf And Avalanche introduced him to Barret, which strung the rest of the game into motion. Yeah, they are important in moving the story along, but that doesn't make them important characters. Aeris is FAR more important than Zack.
@Goobster1920 lmao....now you want to talk about who is more important, Aerith or Zack? :D THEY ARE BOTH IMPORTANT, lol to Cloud and in the world of FF7 :p
You still don't get it do you? :D Both Aeris and Zack will always be with Cloud. That is the meaning of the ending in Advent Children Complete. XD You can never dispute that :p
@seenoong Irrelevant. Aeris is a more important character than Zack is. You seem to keep mixing up "important character" with "character important to Cloud." Like I said, Clouds mother was important to him, but she WASN'T an important character.
@Goobster1920 looool and like I said, you are too obstinate to accept the facts...for some unknown reasons :p , you keep saying Zack is unimportant...but you can't really deny that just because he has less screen time IN THE MAIN GAME lol...and so you brought Cloud's mother into the picture and now comparing that Aeris is more important? lol....you are really funny :D totally out of context.
@seenoong The MAIN GAME is the most important one! It's not out of context, I was using Aerith to show what a TRUE important character looks like. You were comparing Zacks importance to that of Aerith, and it isn't even remotely the same. And I was using Clouds mother to show that a character can be important to Cloud, without being an important character.
@Goobster1920 lol WELL OF COURSE AERITH IS IMPORTANT! SHE SAVED THE WHOLE WORLD. Did anyone ever dispute that? Nope. And..YOU were the one who were COMPARING Zack with Aerith. 17xsjf and I were likening Zack to Aerith - 2 different thing :)
@Goobster1920 LoooooL? My friend, BOTH Aerith and Zack had almost the same roles in the universe of FF7. BOTH DIED. Both still appears to Cloud in his time of need even AFTER they died. Both left their 'marks' on Cloud :D you tell me what makes Aerith "so far above Zack"? I think you are beginning to get very absurd now - you are giving nonsensical example? @.@
@seenoong Oh really? The same roles, huh? Don't be ridiculous. Zack and Aerith had completely different roles. In fact, the two things you mentioned there are the ONLY TWO things they share in common. That sounds like two similarities, not the same role.
@Goobster1920 You know what? This has been going on for some time now and I do not see any point in continuing any further. For some unknown reason(s), you are very dogmatic in your views but so am I. I made my points and I believe that many will agree with me too. Well then, let's just agree to disagree.
Heck yeah! Squall is bad ass...ff8 had such a well developed world with a story that had tons of potential for continuity. 7 is fun, I like the materia system and all. But the characters, story and setting were sooooo boring. Too much of a steam punk mess. I think alot of people misinterpret nostalgia for quality. Alot of people didn't like the junctioning system in 8 though, not sure why. Once you get used to it, it's pretty sick. Still I own both 7 and 8 lol.
Skoople88 1 month ago
Squall fighting for us humans
ZodanaBorado 4 months ago
no offense.. but are you making a scripted fight?? cause(honestly) the squall is like a noob in the start.. then suddenly it just rushed up..
TheHitmaker190 6 months ago
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TheHitmaker190 6 months ago
Squall is by all means a better warrrior,more trained,more focused.. But you cant downplay Cloud, Seph took away everything that he loved.. His hero his love.. Played with his mind .. Cloud was soul searching for like 80% of VII, The biggest obstacle for both heroes was Realization, Cloud needed to realize who he really was, Squall needed to realize that he needs to connect with his emotions.
Both at the start were stoic warriors,Then grew on to be themselves.
dimaggio1324yeah 6 months ago
WTF? Squall Wins? FUCKING BULLSHIT!
KakashiOwnage 7 months ago
@KakashiOwnage Sensing Fanboyism.
BARRERA2U 5 months ago
@BARRERA2U Fuck yeah I'm Fanboy! Cloud <3 <3 <3
KakashiOwnage 5 months ago
Titus from FFX owns all, just needs one basic hit to bring down Chaos from FFI and the Emperor from FFII. Heck, he could even solo Zeromus. I hope Wakka is going to be in the next game, he pwns, he would hit Zidane with a blitzball and make him cry like a bitch lol! :D
jaymthegenius 8 months ago
both were badass please stop comparing and saying whose better
xSayHiToTheBadGuyx 10 months ago
I feel like squall has a lot more miltary than cloud remember the fact that Squall went to a school that trained expert soldiers. Though cloud ran of to join the army he did receive even close to the amount of training of that of squall. But I'm a FFVII fanboy Cloud Wins.
powersoftritone 11 months ago
I swear people only like Cloud because of his hair and his sword, and I bet you most people only focus on that rather then gameplay. How do I know this? I found a girl on facebook who only watches advent children and yet she thinks she's a FF7 fan and guess what? You guessed it she somehow likes "Cloud" for illogical reasons. I liked Cloud at first i'll admit it but when I compare them both I liked Squall and his personality better.
RawrNero 11 months ago
@RawrNero How? If you ask me, Cloud and Squall in relation with their swordsmanship, skills and personality, they're practically the same, if they were to switch places, there would be no difference, heroes are heroes, if you were to put them fighting it would be draw, so stop fighting for stupid things.
Leonix066 11 months ago
the editing was great but the fight was lame. squall kept doing the same attacks and stuff. what lv were you when this fight took place?? it would've been alot more interesting to see a lv 100 vs lv100 with CPU settings at vicious and 7~9 of CPU strength. Very great editing skills though i liked it.
BreakingPhobia103 1 year ago
Squall rules!!!!!!!!! he doesn't have pussy attacks ( attacks that branch from a circle attack to a square attack ) but still cloud is fun to play as and has overwhelming reach so pretty much its a tie but to me squall rules!!!!!! :P
kasando 1 year ago
True but I killed it in the first time, we should stop doing this,this isn't place for chat, Cloud and Squall are both strong and powerful.
Leonix066 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All right, should I remind you that Cloud defeated Sephiroth(who's practically a demigod) TWO times with his TWO ultimate techniques Omnislash and Omnislash V5, killed Bahamut SIN with a slash, Destroyed the Weapons Ruby, Emerald,Omega and Diamond(4 MONSTERS,Emerald and Ruby are far harder to beat that any boss of FF8, especially Emerald which one you need an especial materia to defeat it) and to knock down he has an appearance in FFT as a Secret Character,so ¿Can Squall claim that?
Leonix066 1 year ago
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Leonix066 1 year ago
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Leonix066 1 year ago
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Leonix066 1 year ago
@Leonix066 Alright obviously you know very little of FF8 History. The Sorceress Powers come from directly from Hyne, in fact they also build up over time cumulatively in some sorceresses as well. Hyne, so you know=God, In other words a Sorceress is a goddess on Earth walking around waving power. While Squall can't claim to have destroyed Ruby, Emerald or Diamond Weapon, he DID in fact defeat the superior Omega weapon who btw doesn't even SHOW UP in FF7, you're referring to the inferior Ultima
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@ADDKyuubiNaruto You mean that weapon, I easily defeated it, Emerald is the more rough of the four I tried to kill it like 12 times and I don't know how I defeated it Because it launches an attack who takes 9999 to all the party when it is in Crit state.
Leonix066 1 year ago
@Leonix066 FF games always give you ways to defend against such attacks one way or another, And Omega weapon still has a more dangerous limit break when it lets loose it's 4K damage per hitx16 attack Terra Break. Omega Weapon overall has better stats and lets loose more damage as well as absorbs all elemental attacks, has LVL5 Death and has a few other 1-hit KO attacks.
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@Leonix066 *Ultima weapon, furthermore neither of cloud's "ultimate attacks" surpass Lionheart in raw damage either, sorry, one isn't canon and the other is inferior. Your last method of defense seems to be regarding the "Hype" given to Cloud for being the bandwagon game. I'm sorry but the fact that you need to use that to defend Cloud being a superior character does not help your cause. Squall is a SeeD, mercenary Child Soldier, A Commander at the very same age of 18 and trained in various-
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@Leonix066 fields as well as that world's most difficult weapon, a Sorceress Knight, the savior of time, space, the world and everything alive in every dimension. He's fought the Strongest Summon of all, and it is quite literally the strongest because Ultimecia drew Griever from HIS MIND AS HIS MIND SAW SAID GF. He fought and beat it while any of his dead comrades were erased from time, Cloud needed his entire party just to fight Sephy and a half naked, bleeding weak sephy was all he could beat
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@Leonix066 well anyways if you want even more info I can just send it over inbox, this is taking too much space
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@ADDKyuubiNaruto You're wrong I practically finished it but for some strange reason when i killed Ultimecia fusioned with Gryphus the game blocked and after all ask the FF fans wthat they think and we can talk later
Leonix066 1 year ago
@Leonix066 I'm just giving you facts. And besides popularity has never equaled quality, see Twilight for example XD
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
متعوب عليـــــه
RizzoV 1 year ago
LOL!!! I CANT STOP SEEING THIS VIDEO!!! GREAT JOB MY FRIENDDD!!! Cloud is the best !!!
Ahito95 1 year ago
Squall is KINGGGGGGGGGG
LionheartAlacod 1 year ago 6
SQUALL RULESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS CLOUD IS COOL BUT SQUALL IS 1000000*1000000 TIMES BETTER
megaman874 1 year ago 6
That truly was...epic. Go Squall!! lol.
GuttaGames 1 year ago 4
which camera did u use to mak it move around like that?
TheAJEANproductions 1 year ago
I like how the video was made to look like an actual fight between these two, but it has too much of Cloud beating up Squall, and not enough of Squall beating up Cloud. Especially if Squall was the one who defeated Cloud. All in all though, this video was very well made. Thumbs up.
xXSycamorePearlXx 1 year ago
squall would rape cloud.
mtbx 1 year ago
yes!!!!!leon won
saadboy17 1 year ago
Squall is kicking everyone's ass =)
JohanOlsson 1 year ago 2
if i was playing that Squall. That Cloud would not have seen the light of day ever again. Not to be rude. But i am a master of Squall in Dissidia. This video dissapionted me. Squal could of dodged all of those attacks by Cloud. Clouds attack are rather slow but strong. And it takes a noob to get hit by them repeatedly. I would have taken advatadge of that soo easily. And would dish out some severe pain. Maybe some Mystic Furry then a Revolver Drive.
ProudFinn1 1 year ago
@ProudFinn1 i know wsquall is just too cool
ARKSOLDIER7 1 year ago
@ProudFinn1 WOW,U're such a cool person! You are strong!
cucinorez 1 year ago
@ProudFinn1 Lol also this was my first fight which I choreographed myself. Sooo yea...its in the description
albelthewicked3 1 year ago
@ProudFinn1 Just cause' you fight well with him in Dissidia doesn't means that Cloud is weaker than him, I played both FF7 and FF8, I like them both but in my opinion Cloud is stronger cause Shin-Ra experimented with him whose give super human strenght and agility to him, plus i think he's cooler than Squall as I see in KH2 cause in last scene of the Heartless War Squall just scream and Cloud tell him to "Relax"
Leonix066 1 year ago
@Leonix066 Sorry dude but we can't use "Dissidia" or KH as examples, they both pussify the characters and even more so in Squall's Case. Squall's Lionheart attack alone does more damage than any other character's limit break in the entire series including FFX as well, that's just from gameplay standpoint. From Story-line standpoint Cloud saved "the world" from a meteor and beat Sephiroth, big deal. You wanna know what Squall did conceptually? I'll explain in another comment post XD
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago
@ADDKyuubiNaruto "Squall's Lionheart attack alone does more damage than any other character's limit break in the entire series.." well, zell can kill omega weapon in 1 turn while it takes at least 2 turns for squall to kill him that is, IF you get lucky and proc lionheart twice in a row.. just saying.. =p
ponkadolz 11 months ago
@ponkadolz To be fair, Squall's Attack is invariable, Zell's does still take in the whole defense thing and requires the player to KNOW what he's doing and have some skill as well. But even so, that just proves Cloud can't even beat Zell ;D
ADDKyuubiNaruto 11 months ago
@Leonix066 Moving on(and sorry for this) Anyways, Squall survived time compression through sheer fucking belief alone, proceeded to beat every obstacle Ultimecia threw his way, Beat the manifestation of the strongest GF as depicted and drawn from his own mind, defeated Ultimecia who controls space, time and the fabric of existence as well, survived the end of time AGAIN and caused the paradox needed for SeeD to be created and finally saved existence itself. Can Cloud claim that?
ADDKyuubiNaruto 1 year ago 4
@ADDKyuubiNaruto So face it, Cloud is the best hero of the saga ¿how I know this?
FF7 has 2 Prequels and 2 Sequels,FF8 NOTHING and with this i'm not saying FF8 is bad in fact is one of my fav FF but FF7 RULES
Leonix066 1 year ago
@Leonix066 @Leonix066 Your analogy is not valid. Sequel is just based on the popularity of the gameplay not the actual character itself. And face it Cloud only saves only one planet, Squall was 17 when he created SeeD and he saved the universe, now stop your illogical fanboy crap and face reality.
RawrNero 11 months ago
@ADDKyuubiNaruto
Finally someone puts Cloud fanboys/fangirls in their place! Cloud defeated sephiroth and saved earth... and so What? Squall saved the universe, he saved existance itself as you said! xD. No way to compare them both.
xantyleonhart 1 year ago
@xantyleonhart Not to mention being 17 and being the leader of SeeD
RawrNero 11 months ago
The fight was awesome but putting a metal gear solid song in final fantasy...nah it just made me lose the awesome fight feeling:L
But the fight was awesome tho. No offense by the way.
YoMommazBoi 1 year ago
This is the best Replay i have ever seen :O
good work :)
111Vincento111 1 year ago
this gets a thumbs down because it is a fixed fight
GrayFox2k8 1 year ago
metal gear solid 2 music theme ? o.O
simowarlock 1 year ago
How do u upload or even record replays to YouTube ?? Pllzz reply
Digimonfanboy1 1 year ago
No... It's impossible! D;
rayz0rz 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 lol "Cloud fought Sephiroth in his normal form and won" sure....if u call "off-guard" as a "normal form" and sneak attack as "fought" XD, Cloud sure is a very honourable SOLDIER indeed lol....wait wait....oh hell...he wasn't even in SOLDIER lmao...
oh btw...Zack is the one who got Cloud out from imprisonment at Shinra Mansion. So rather than I show u how Zack is stronger, why dun u show us how Cloud is stronger? Other than the freakish sneak atk in Nibelheim mako reactor :)
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong What are you talking about? Cloud fought Sephiroth one on one in both FF7 and Advent Children. Zack got smoked by Sephiroth like a tiny baby. Cloud, though he isn't stronger than Sephiroth, was still not only able to hold his own he was even eventually able to defeat him. Seriously, Zack has NEVER shown himself to be stronger than Cloud, with the exception of BEFORE Cloud was actually strong. I have NO idea why he has such a following of devoted fans. He wasn't very important at all.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 "He wasn't very important at all" LOL ...do you realise what you are saying now?! NO ZACK FAIR, NO CLOUD STRIFE IN THE FIRST PLACE! lmao I wonder if you have play/watch thru the whole Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 (with the exception of main game and AC) :p No other fanboy/fangirl of FF7 have ever dismiss the importance of Zack Fair. To say something like what you did is utter disrespect and shows just how much u know about the history of Cloud - how he became what he is now.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Well, maybe that's because I'm not an FF7 fanboy. I look at the character for what he is. He was just a side character tossed in to provide a twist in the plot. He got about 5 minutes of screen time.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 XD Who cares about whether you are an FF7 fanboy or not? I am not a total FF7 geek either :D but I read their stories AS A FINAL FANTASY FAN. lol who are you talking about having a 5 min screen time? Zack Fair? loooool I am laughing so hard now...XD I was right. You didn't play Crisis Core, did you? No matter then :D I forgive you for the ignorance. That explains why you do not know the significance of this special character, Zack Fair and the impact he had on the lives of so many.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong They made Crisis Core because Zack got a ton of fans and they wanted more money. THAT is why Crisis Core even came into existence. Look at him originally. He's in, like, 2 flash backs and that's it.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 looooool again you are only seeing the main game >.< tsk tsk.....the story of FF7 is more than just the main game. You need to see the bigger picture lol
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong The main game is the original FF7. Everything else came into existence because they wanted more money. Crisis Core wasn't originally a part of the FF7 universe. That game came into existence later, once the developers figured out they could milk more money from the thing. Honestly, there are a ton of contradictions among the FF7 spin offs. The reactor scene alone is different in almost every one.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
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Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 oh btw, before you get too smug, may I remind you that Sephiroth had very different relationship with both Zack and Cloud. Whilst Cloud may have no qualms to kill Sephiroth (albeit from behind) :p, Zack has a closer relationship with Sephiroth - he was Zack's childhood hero and having to kill his mentor by this own hands already, do you honestly think it was easy for Zack to do that again? lol Zack worshipped that freak! XD So please be fair :p
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong I'm having trouble seeing the relevance of all this. Who cares about Clouds relationship with Sephiroth? This is all irrelevant information. It has no bearing on who is stronger, at all.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 it is important facts and stories. To all true fans of Final Fantasy anyway :) maybe not to you :D Maybe all you cared about is "who is stronger" lmao...instead of character development and the stories behind each heroes and villains alike :p
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Yeah, I only care about who's stronger in a WHO'S STRONGER debate. Did you forget that was what we were talking about?
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Actually, I do not even remember how we started in the first place lmao....@.@ too many spams now that I am beginning to lose interest XD
seenoong 1 year ago
@17xsjf FINALLY! People rational enough to realise that and not like the legions of Cloud's fanboys/fangirls who loves just for the sake of love! :D I wanted to say that a long time ago lol...
seenoong 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 lol "why did Cloud beat the single most powerful warrior of the FF7 universe?" Answer: a freak accident maybe? :D Cloud defeated Sephiroth in Crisis Core because he sneaked up from behind :p...caught poor Sephiroth off-guard lol while he had plenty of allies' help in FF7 and Advent Children xD try to do that purely alone without any help (spiritual or not) and see if he can win :) oh btw, Cloud's sword, life and memories, all belongs to Zack. Even Zack's gf, Aerith, so pls respect.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Actually, Cloud defeated Sephiroth by himself in both FF7 and Advent Children so...... Regardless, I'm already aware of the fact that Sephiroth is stronger than Cloud. Also, what does it matter if Clouds sword and memories were originally Zacks? That holds no bearing over who is stronger, and Cloud is far stronger than Zack.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Cloud and Sephiroth's fight at the end of FF7 was an spiritual fight in the Lifestream, Sephiroth is stated to be in a superior level than Cloud.
Prove to us, Goobster, that Cloud is stronger than Zack, then.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 ROFL it matters everything silly xD. Without Zack Fair, there would not even be a Cloud Strife lol....you are arguing that Cloud is stronger just by his defeating Sephiroth? LMAO, kiddo, every game will have the protagonist win, no matter how, in the end :D
Rather than their combat prowess, show me that Cloud is a better character than Zack Fair or any other heroes from the Final Fantasy world, for that matter. Cloud was a weakling and will always live with the legacy of Zack :)
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong
Wow he is basically saying, that a certain event does not matter... an event that lead the main character become who he is...
Like saying we dont need air..
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@seenoong What? I would think him defeating someone who smoked Zack as if he were just a breeze would be enough to show him better. You claim Zack is stronger than Cloud, but you cannot even defend that. Where is the evidence? Where is the logic behind this radical claim? Zack is a nobody. Brought in only to provide a quick plot twist, nothing more. They didn't even bother thinking up an important sounding name for him. They just stuck him with Zack. Stop acting like he is so special. He isn't.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 XD I never said that Zack is "stronger" than Cloud - not after his death anyway :D show me where I've said Zack is stronger. I only asked that you show us Cloud is a "better" character than Zack Fair. You still do not get it, don't you? tsk tsk....lemme repeat it again then because I am so patient :D
CLOUD IS THE NOBODY WITHOUT ZACK FAIR. CLOUD WAS LIVING IN ZACK'S LEGACY (AND SHADOW). ALL CLOUD WANTED AND HAVE BELONGS TO ZACK. Stop acting like Cloud is a God - HE IS NOT :D
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong When did I say Cloud was a god? I sure hope you aren't saying Zack is more important than Cloud, who is only, I don't know, the main character of the game. No, of course not. The REAL important dude is the unplayable side character who pops up in about 5 minutes worth of flashbacks in the game. I have no idea why you love Zack so much, but you need to stop pretending he's more than he is. He's a plot twist side character turned money making spin off. Nothing more.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 lol lemme see...Kingdom Hearts, Ehrgeiz, Itadaki Street Special, Chocobo Racing..those are spin-offs; Crisis Core is a prequel :) - spin-offs have nothing to do with the main story, but prequel shows events prior to the main story :)
I think you need to have a broader mind because FF7 is one of the most complex and thought-out story in the whole series - that's why Square Enix made Compilation of it. I can see that you have not even play Crisis Core :D that's why you don't
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Oh I've played Crisis Core. I can see exactly what it is. Zack became famous, so they gave him a game for more money. It's pretty simple really. Zack was originally a noboby, then he got a ton of people who loved him for no apparent reason, and they said. Gee, I bet I could sell a game to those people. And thus Crisis Core was born. Do not pretend the developers had always planned on that story.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 My friend, Zack was not a nobody. HE WAS A 1ST CLASS SOLDIER XD. People loved him because he saved our dear Cloud. HE IS A HERO! XD. And because he is cute with Aerith :) . Perhaps you cannot understand the emotions that many gamers had when Zack died (just like when Aerith died too). I was one of those legions of gamers who cried and really, it was the first time I ever cried in a game. Do you know that Crisis Core was the last game created for the Compilation of FF7? :)
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong You cried? How? Zack wasn't introduced long enough for the audience to become sympathetic for him. Like I said, he had about 5 minutes worth of screen time.
I really doubt Crisis Core is going to be the last. I'm betting a few years pass, they figure out they might be able to milk little more money out of it and BAM! a prequel staring Sephiroth or something.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 loooool....my friend, again you are only looking within the main game :D whereas I was referring to the whole world of FF7. You know, you can view through so many videos of tributes to Zack here too :p and see for yourself if Zack deserves so little of your respect :)
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong The main game is the more important of the reference points, and in it Zack is unimportant. Like I said, he only became important LATER after he got such a big fan following.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 LOL Goobster1920, try to think logically please, if Zack is sooooo unimportant or minor as you said he is or should be :p then why does he have so many fans? :D why does Square Enix even bother to add more scenes of Zack in Advent Children Complete? Why was Crisis Core such a hit? XD If Square Enix only cares about profits (not that I mind :p since a game is still a business) they could talk about other characters but noooooo...they expanded on Zack, the living legacy of Cloud :D
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Do you know Death Note? There was a character on that show that was on screen for literally five minutes. I'm not joking. I think his name was Matt. Anyway, his five minutes got him whole sites dedicated to him. He became immensely popular. Characters don't have to be important to become famous. Crisis Core was a hit because people already loved Zack when it came out, which is also WHY it came out, might I add.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 :D Dude, do you why Matt was well-liked? It's because he willingly sacrificed himself for Mello's cause :p - Death Note is my fave anime, my friend :). But I don't think that he became "immensely" popular-that's a little exaggerated. Ah ha...you admitted it. Why do people loves Zack even before Crisis Core came out? :) I rest my case.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Because of the Matt effect. And he IS immensely popular. People have whole Youtube and Deviantart accounts dedicated solely to him. He's almost as famous the main characters! For what? Because he popped up for 5 minutes and got shot? Seriously? That must be what it takes to make a character famous. They pop up for five minutes, and then they get shot and die. And all the sudden everyone loves them. I find it ridiculous. That was Zack, and that's why Crisis Core came out.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 LooooooooL Matt and Zack have totally different roles. Does Matt leave any effects on either Light or N? Was he related to them in some way? :D What you find ridiculous is because you are too stubborn to accept the obvious truth in your face. Read more, my friend, the scenario writer of FF7 said the story of Crisis Core had been cooking for more than 10 years and Zack was ALREADY important BEFORE Crisis Core came out. XD Crisis Core only helped to elevate his popularity.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Zack became famous before Crisis Core, I know that. Why? Because of the Matt effect. An unimportant character becoming popular despite his unimportantness. If Zack was so important, why did he only get a few minutes of screen time? If he was such an important character, why is he not seen other than a few flash backs when they needed to do a plot twist? Why did what we saw of him in FF7 differ from Crisis Core if he was always suppose to be that important?
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 *yawns* lol again you are basing the importance a character has on his screen time...zzz. Look past the screen time thing, dude and instead look at the character's role in the storyline. And most importantly the direct influence that character has on the hero. You keep talking about plot twist. What plot twist? There is NO plot twist. You said so yourself that everything was already explained in the MAIN GAME. So what plot twist? XD Aren't you contradicting yourself? :p
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong The fact that Clouds memories weren't his own was a plot twist. It then goes on to explain everything, but that doesn't mean plot twists can't exist, does it? Of course not.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 *yawns* and Cloud's memories was whose? His mother? :p or perhaps his father now? lol....wait wait....I know! Maybe it belongs to Tseng! :O lmao....
seenoong 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Allow me to give you a better example of a plot twist :) Do you know this anime, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2? In the anime, the protagonist, Lelouch wants to kill his own father and destroy Britannia to avenge his mother's death because he believes that his father abandoned his family. BUT in the very last few episodes, Lelouch finally knows that his mother actually had a sinister plan for the world that they lived in. So what Lelouch had been doing was actually futile.
seenoong 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 even know the difference between spin-off and prequel lol and the events that happen prior to the story in the main game. Do you know why Cloud has so much angst? Do you know where he got his iconic Buster Sword? Do you know why he is affected by Sephiroth so much? Do you know why Aerith treats him like a certain someone? :) All of these are explained if you have play Crisis Core. LOL complete that game my friend before you call it a "nothing more" :D
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong I've played it. Also, ALL those questions were answered in the original FF7. Nice try though. Crisis Core wasn't originally a part of the FF7 story. It only came into existence later to make more money. They didn't even do a very good job of keeping to the original game. The reactor scene is evidence enough of that.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
Comment removed
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong I know there is a longer/changed Cloud vs Sephiroth fight. I didn't know they changed more than that.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 LOOOOOOL just watch it if you have not done so :D and you shall see what are some of those additional scenes :)
seenoong 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Goobster1920 @Goobster1920 oh btw, I have just watched the latest FF7: Advent Children Complete and I urge you to watch it as soon as possible if you have not done so :D
It has many new additional scenes and you should see for yourself what are those xD I don't want to spoil it by giving away spoiler :p
seenoong 1 year ago
@Goobster1920
I hate to disagree with you, Zack was very important, think about it, Cloud had his memories and acted as he was Zack, he fought in the same manner as Zack, and learned everything Zack learned. Zack died, and had no chance to prove he was stronger, but to say he was not as important? Well, if no Zack, no Cloud. Cloud became Zack, and he could have not acted the way he did nor events occured if not Zack's existence. Zack changed the events in the story, even in his death he does.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever *psst*.... :) actually, Zack already proved his importance - he saved Cloud. As simple as that - without him, there would not even be our dear protagonist :D
Oh and btw, Zack awoke from 4 years of experimentation while Cloud succumbed into a vegetative state :p however, I should be fair and maybe overlook this fact? lol XD
Don't tell Goobster1920 though - I doubt he can understand :D
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong
Is cause like he thinks inside the box maybe?
Of course, every event in a game or story has to have its importance, specially ifits a character saving another one. When it comes to will power Cloud has none, thats his personality, that is why even though he beats Sephiroth in the end Seph wins, he comes back, Cloud is too mentally weak. That is why i believe in a battle Squall will win, he has pure will power, and wont fall for sephs comments, same with Zack, more will power.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever A pure proof of the tremendous will-power the FF8 characters have is that they survived Time Compression. During the story, Squall's mental balance was moderate, due of his past and stuff, but he could overcome all of that and was able to lead the whole Garden to victory, was able to go out to space without training to save Rinoa and could trust his friends to the max to prevent themselves being absorbed by Ultimecia's final form.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@squallthegriever Squall's mental power is so strong that allowed Ultimecia to extract Griever from his thoughts and make it the most powerful GF in existence. Squall wouldn't fall for Sephiroth's trick and mockeries, he's too focused on battle.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf
I agree man. Squall in over all, is a better character than Cloud. Example
Power: Cloud 9, Squalls 9, Speed Cloud 7 Squall 9, Skills Cloud 7, Squall 9. Squall is not perfect but in the end his abilities and talents and power as a whole win. Squall and Sephiroth make perfect sparing partners. Sephiroth be calling Squall a punk and pussy and oh ur mommy died, and Squall will just say, : yeah, well cut your hair fag.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever Indeed. Lmao! xD You're right, Sephiroth would say: "It's good to see you, Squall..." and Squall would say: "Shut the fuck up and fight, moron". Oh! And remember when you start their games? Cloud is at level 6 in his game whereas Squall is at level 7 in his one! So even in the beginning of their default levels Squall is more experienced than Cloud.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf i do not care of that, in the end though the levels are irrelevant. Cause its just part of the game to grow and level up, just the story should be more of evident of who was a born fighter Squall at age 17 was as power as Cloud at 21, at 17 Cloud is a no one to Squall. but we do now that Squall has more of an edge over Cloud Since Squall is just better suited for fights same power faster,smarter and of course he finished off to death the enemies.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever I know, but I was pointing out that fact since you brought up their stats, which by the way, are also part of the game. I was just saying Squall had one level more than Cloud. You're right, Cloud at that age was a nobody, he was one of those blue guys we beat all the time during the game. Squall in the other hand, was already a master. One Galbadian soldier would beat Cloud at that age, and Galbadian soldiers aren't even comparable to SeeD members. So you can imagine.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@
Well both the regular soldiers from 7 and 8 (which funny how in Crisis Core they look more like 8 model not 7) Were at that type of level. Squall would have owned all them 7 soldiers at age 15, since he use to use regular swords and switched to Gunblade 2 years after. Honestly, I think Tifa may want more of squall, plus Yuffie would fine him more appealing since closer age and Squall had a group of normal people, he was the only superhuman one. Clouds team was all superhumans.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever No, that is actually incorrect. SeeDs ARE all super-humans, enhanced via GFs and Para-Magic power, thus Squall wasn't the only one. And for Cloud's party, they aren't super-human, Cloud is.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf not actually, if you think about it, story wise Rinoa used her dog in battles she had no actual weapon, the rest were not as powerful as Squall, they were powerful, but not super powerful like him, and Tifa has more super human strength alone more than Zell, and Irvine and and his party. Cloud had a better team, that is why Squall was and is better, he must of fought more than his party. its just logical in the story. Squall also takes a nasty magic stab in his chest, cloud..thin blade
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever I am terribly sorry, friend, but you are just incorrect.
Rinoa became a Sorceress and had Edea's and Adel's power, she's super-human. Irvine is not super-human because he's from Galbadia Garden, he hadn't the kind of training Balamb has for their students, as such, he has never used a GF, he's just probably a skilled fighter and the best marksman in the world.
Only Cloud and Vincent are super-humans, the rest of the party are just humans.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf
Ur forgetting that Tifa was expose to Mako, she is a superhuman, why else would she be as powerful as she is? Also in the FF world all the main character are more powerful that any human.
For the 13 thing its much funner that 12. 12 was a boring game for me, ... i am happy vaan is not the character the chose. Have you heard the 12 fans... i mean doubt Tidus can beat Squall, or Cloud or WoL, or Firion, but they think Vaan can own tidus.. sad.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever What are you talking about? Tifa wasn't and it isn't a member of SOLDIER, so I don't know what you mean by "she was expose to mako", explain that to me. Cloud's genetically modified through Jenova Cells AND Mako, HE IS super-human, the same as Vincent, Tifa is NOT super-human. She's a strong martial fighter, that is all. Martial fighters are physically strong, that's common.
Really? I DO THINK Vaan is stronger than Tidus though. But I won't argue that.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf hmmm then i must got my story wrong.. i have not beaten 7 since 2005 that was the last time I played it, before the movie, because the new 7 fans love Cloud and he has no weaknesses apparently. Really? I would assume Vaan is just a typical kid, i never liked him. Nor his voice. Jetch though, in Dissidia is a beast. What characters do you wanna see in Dissidia 2, which is actually being talked about in SE.
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever Yes, I don't like him either, I think Vaan is kind of... empty, an empty character, although if you play FF12 Revenant Wings you will like it, he changes a lot. FF12 is like Star Wars! xDD I wanna see Seifer, Zell, Seymour, Vaan (really), Garnet, Rinoa and probably Zack. You? :D And wow, their are talking about Dissidia 2?
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf
I sent you the message
i would love also Captain whatever his name is.. from 9 i forgot his name but he is realy powerful, and bad ass, be cool if he was a slower but stronger version of onion knight
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@squallthegriever Okay.
You mean Steiner?
17xsjf 1 year ago
@squallthegriever
Sephiroth: *smirks*... Let's see what have you got... Squall...
Squall: Yes, I've got my Gunblade in your ass, fuck-face.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@squallthegriever And you saw Squall's hit? Is by default on 255%. Squall's Lion Heart does more damage and deals more hits than Cloud's Omnislash. Hell, he already knows that amazing and powerful skill called Renzokuken that is stronger than all of Cloud's Limit Breaks with the exception of Omnislash, but the most important thing is that he already have it learned from the start of the story! :D
Squall > Cloud
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf
Sephiroth: I see u are a blood thirsty fighter, oh poor you, u have sorrow in your heart, a poser in deed
Squall: ...... You love my gunblade up your ass sephy!
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@seenoong You realize I can read it right here, right? Zack may have been important in carrying along the story line but guess what, so are all the original members of Avalanche who got killed off in the beginning of the game. Without them, the game wouldn't have advanced as it did. I wouldn't call them important characters though.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 No my friend. AVALANCHE did not have any impact on the life of our dear protagonist :D Zack did...in a BIG way. AVALANCHE did NOT save our hero's life and tell him "to live on". AVALANCHE did NOT give our hero, the Buster Sword. AVALANCHE did NOT tell our hero that "you'll be my living legacy" :p which caused our dear hero to develop a false persona throughout the main game :D
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Really? Avalance was the whole reason Cloud started the game. None of the events of the game would have taken place had AVALANCHE not been there to start it off. Just because they didn't save his life, doesn't mean they weren't important to the story. But, even though they were important for moving the story along, as characters they weren't important at all.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 loooool now I am getting more and more amuse XD so basically you are saying that EVERYONE else is nobody aka unimportant in FF7 except dear Cloud...lmao....Do not try to deny please because really, that is what I have been reading all these time XD
Zack is a nobody...AVALANCHE as characters weren't important at all....*yawns*...XD yeah right...so a whole story/game can be progressed only by 1 person :D heheheheh.....how amusing...
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong No, more than just Cloud. The whole FF7 team. The Turks, Sephiroth, etc etc. THOSE are important characters. Not Avalanche, and not Zack.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
lol what is with all the profanities over a game? :p
My personal opinion? Squall is a true SeeD, Cloud is a wannabe SOLDIER :D
Cloud was so weak that he was even shown as throwing up in Crisis Core :p and would have been dead had it not been for Zack. His sword, his life, his memories...all given to him by Zack Fair...heck even Zack's girlfriend, Aerith :)
People , you decide :)
seenoong 1 year ago
LOL METAL GEAR SOLID MUSIC!!!
spyman987 1 year ago
How is that you dont have the square-enix watermark
yellowsquall 1 year ago
whats the name of the song
darkkiller092 1 year ago
@darkkiller092 Metal Gear Solid theme
santyag 1 year ago
Yay, Cloud lost like the pussy bitch he is.
SpinCycleSubmission 1 year ago
Cloud would literally RAPE Squall. Squall doesn't stand a fucking chance. If you can't see that, then you are a fuck face
fangs17 1 year ago
@fangs17 Cloud is a boring character, probably the most boring Final Fantasy Hero if you don't count the first three where character development wasn't huge.
SpinCycleSubmission 1 year ago
@SpinCycleSubmission That has nothing to do with his actual skill in fighting you fuck head.
Not saying he is a better hero, just saying that he is much stronger so fuck off.
fangs17 1 year ago
@fangs17 Insulting people has nothing to do about who would win either, sir.
Shut your damn mouth.
17xsjf 1 year ago 4
@17xsjf
Go suck a dick you fuck face. I insult as much as I want. Fuck off!
fangs17 1 year ago
@fangs17
You are such a whiny fanboy. Cloud's an overrated bitch and I bet you would pay good money to ride his dick
funkysnow116 1 year ago
@funkysnow116 Suck my dick you fucking ugly ass shit head. Stop being such a fuck face pussy and go the fuck away you dumb shit. Cloud is NOT my favorite character, but ITS FUCKING OBVIOUS THAT HE WOULD RAPE SQUALL. HE'S GENETICALLY MODIFIED, SQUALL IS NOT.
Use your head you cock sucking fat men fucking fag.
fangs17 1 year ago
@fangs17 Squall is magically enhanced via GFs and a more experienced warrior than Cloud, hands down. Cloud's not the strongest, there are tons of more powerful characters than him and they aren't "genetically modified". Squall was already an elite at the age of 17, whereas Cloud was just a mere infantry man without experience with a damn blade. Elite > Infantry. Cloud fought a mutated being whereas Squall fought against TIME itself.
Squall wins.
17xsjf 1 year ago 4
@17xsjf Oh come on, this debate is still going on? 17xsjf, didn't we already talk about the "Clouds Past" argument? The fact that he USED to be weak is irrelevant. He isn't anymore. Stick with the present. Also, might I remind you that Squall didn't fight Ultimicia by himself. You CANNOT give him, alone, credit for that fight. Regardless of how many times you try.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Hey, seriously, it is very relevant actually. You see how both started and almost at the same age, if you wanna stick with their present, then let's take into account how much they got strong, I'd say Squall got stronger than Cloud by the fact he was by far stronger in the beginning. A lot more experienced, a master of his blade, an elite warrior and the best SeeD, AT THE SAME AGE. That's it. Cloud was just an infantry, one of those blue guys.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf
I agree, Squall at age 17 was and as powerful, and a bit more skilled than Cloud is at age 21. I mean, once Squall reaches age 21, he can be much more powerful, also alone Squall already is a faster, more tactical, and smarter fighter. Not include he can do the same amount of damage with his triggered slashes at a 3x rate rate than Cloud. Squall also fights for his pride, and blood. Cloud is more of a OMG a fight OH NOOOO!
squallthegriever 1 year ago
@17xsjf But that was BEFORE Cloud got strong. It isn't his training that gives him his power, so bringing up the fact that he has no training does NOT show a lack of power.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 But Squall was ALREADY strong. Training and battles are important, how comes you say that? Yeah, but some Jenova cells and mako aren't enough if you hadn't experience. Squall's powers also comes from the GFs and Para-Magic, not only experienced, so. Squall still has the edge. Cloud has a lack of power, yes.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 But Squall was ALREADY strong. Yes, Cloud lacks proper training with a blade, he was just an infantry with a rifle, man, thus he lacks abilities and capabilities in battle. Deal with it. Also, some cells and mako aren't enough if you aren't a good fighter. Power alone isn't everything. Squall had both. Cloud was nothing.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf Cloud can handle himself just fine. He takes on Sephiroth, who is the greatest swordsman on the planet. Weather that swordsman ship came from the Jenova Cells, I don't know. All I know is he had it after the process. It was the Jenova Cell experiment that turned Cloud into the powerful fighter you see him as now. Infantry Cloud and FF7 Cloud are two completely different people in terms of fighting ability. He didn't get his strength from training.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Man, you do not understand what I'm saying here. Im not talking about "power" or "enhancements", Im talking about experience in battle, something that that greatest swordsman of yours had, not only power from enhancements, Cloud can't gain experience in combat by having Mako and cells, he must fight. That's liek saying that Squall's experience in battle comes from the GFs, we know that's aside. GFs are enhancements. Squall was already a master of his own weapon.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf No, I understand perfectly what your saying. But Cloud fought Sephiroth, so he HAS experience enough with a blade to go toe to toe with the greatest swordsman on the planet. I don't know where he got it, but he has it now. He may not have had it in his infantry days, but some how some way he has it now.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Toe to toe? Lmao, your joking, Sephiroth is far stronger than Cloud. And they had only an spiritual fight in the Lifestream at the end of FF7, Cloud's will surpased Sephiroth's. The point is that Squall ALREADY was strong, he wasn't an infantry or just a mere student, he was an Elite and a master swordsman, then a SeeD, then the best of them. At Cloud's same age.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf And I'm telling you that isn't even mildly important. Clouds skill doesn't come from training. So the fact that he has none is irrelevant, cause that's not where he gets his skill. You get it? And yes, though Sephiroth is stronger, Cloud was still able to fight against him, so he has to have skill with the blade inorder to fight the greatest swordsman on the planet. Oh, and we've been over the "spiritual battle" argument. It still doesn't hold up.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 No, because he doesnt get skills with the enhancements, he gets skills by fighting, so he had skills with a rifle, because he fought with a rifle once he joined as an infantry, at the same age another guy was already a master swordsman and Elite. But he fought toe to toe? No. Sephiroth was playing, if he could have cared a little, Sephiroth would have killed Cloud in a blink of an eye.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf No, 17xjf, Cloud switch from a rifle to a sword after the enhancements. It doesn't make sense, but it happened. Cloud got good with the sword really fast. Even though Sephiroth wasn't using his full ability, it still takes a fair amount of skill to be able to fight him at all. Cloud is skilled with the blade, no one is going to deny that. He didn't have training, but he got good somehow.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Cloud switched the rifle because Zack gave him his sword. Zack is important, just like Aeris is, I don't like Zack but a good educated fan of the series can't deny it.
17xsjf 1 year ago
@17xsjf And Avalanche introduced him to Barret, which strung the rest of the game into motion. Yeah, they are important in moving the story along, but that doesn't make them important characters. Aeris is FAR more important than Zack.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 lmao....now you want to talk about who is more important, Aerith or Zack? :D THEY ARE BOTH IMPORTANT, lol to Cloud and in the world of FF7 :p
You still don't get it do you? :D Both Aeris and Zack will always be with Cloud. That is the meaning of the ending in Advent Children Complete. XD You can never dispute that :p
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Irrelevant. Aeris is a more important character than Zack is. You seem to keep mixing up "important character" with "character important to Cloud." Like I said, Clouds mother was important to him, but she WASN'T an important character.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 looool and like I said, you are too obstinate to accept the facts...for some unknown reasons :p , you keep saying Zack is unimportant...but you can't really deny that just because he has less screen time IN THE MAIN GAME lol...and so you brought Cloud's mother into the picture and now comparing that Aeris is more important? lol....you are really funny :D totally out of context.
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong The MAIN GAME is the most important one! It's not out of context, I was using Aerith to show what a TRUE important character looks like. You were comparing Zacks importance to that of Aerith, and it isn't even remotely the same. And I was using Clouds mother to show that a character can be important to Cloud, without being an important character.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 lol WELL OF COURSE AERITH IS IMPORTANT! SHE SAVED THE WHOLE WORLD. Did anyone ever dispute that? Nope. And..YOU were the one who were COMPARING Zack with Aerith. 17xsjf and I were likening Zack to Aerith - 2 different thing :)
seenoong 1 year ago
@seenoong Exactly, you were likening Zack to Aerith, who is so far above Zack in importance it would be like likening an ant to a dragon.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 LoooooL? My friend, BOTH Aerith and Zack had almost the same roles in the universe of FF7. BOTH DIED. Both still appears to Cloud in his time of need even AFTER they died. Both left their 'marks' on Cloud :D you tell me what makes Aerith "so far above Zack"? I think you are beginning to get very absurd now - you are giving nonsensical example? @.@
seenoong 1 year ago 3
@seenoong Oh really? The same roles, huh? Don't be ridiculous. Zack and Aerith had completely different roles. In fact, the two things you mentioned there are the ONLY TWO things they share in common. That sounds like two similarities, not the same role.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 You know what? This has been going on for some time now and I do not see any point in continuing any further. For some unknown reason(s), you are very dogmatic in your views but so am I. I made my points and I believe that many will agree with me too. Well then, let's just agree to disagree.
seenoong 1 year ago 7
@seenoong Very well. Agree to disagree.
Goobster1920 1 year ago
@Goobster1920 Cloud's whole role in the story is due to Zack. Cloud is a wannabe, lol.
17xsjf 1 year ago 4