I hate standing alone in elevators with strangers, especially with women. Rebecca probably knows that the guy was socially awkward and is just demonizing him for her own amusement.
The dictionary definition of misogyny is "hatred of women", but the feminist definition (according to wikipedia) is "any negative attitude towards women", so something like a man opening a door for a woman or paying for dinner is misogyny in the mind of many feminists.
Feminists use many words differently than the dictionary: "privilege", "rights", "force", "rape", "sex", "hate", "misogyny", "women's bodies", "selling", "equal", etc. don't mean what common people understand them to mean.
Massage has been given a bad wrap. Massage helps build and keep muscle. Why rail against massage? Yapping "massageny" like giving or getting massage is a bad thing, is like trying to cast nutrition in a bad light. Dang strong and fit massagenistic nutritionists... mmm ok!
Also I don't recall her ever calling the elevator guy a 'misogynist' so I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but the response to her video was overwhelmingly a self-fulfilling prophecy of the sexism and misogyny she specifically spoke about at that conference. So, incidentally, when you're called a stuck up cunt for feeling justifiably uncomfortable in that situation, I don't believe the use of 'misogyny' here is 'liberally used',in fact its wholly justified.
I don't really have an opinion on Rebecca Watson, but being in a elevator at that time of night/morning alone with a stranger are very vulnerable moments for women, considering all the male on female rape statistics out there I think she was justified in feeling uncomfortable. Nonetheless there an IMMENSELY overblown reactionary response where people like TJ felt the need to call her a 'bitch' and 'cunt', and Richard Dawkins outing himself as misogynist with his complete dismissal of a very...
@cannedkitty (cont.)...valid concern. These are the most common responses whenever anything remotely resembling a discussion on feminism occurs, and that is what really needs to be called out here.
@cannedkitty Yes, TJ and Richard Dawkins HATE WOMEN. Clearly. This is what I mean by "misogyny" being used too much. If the term describes Dawkins and TJ it doesn't really mean a lot to me. As far as rape statistics go, acquaintances are more dangerous to women then strangers. This is coming from a tiny and incredibly careless female. I've put up with more sexual harassment from busboys I work with then, say, a guy who is the only other person on the train I'm on. Strangers talk to me . .
@itinkuno . . . all the time, often on public transportation with no one else around. Sometimes they are drunk, sometimes they are schizophrenic, hardly ever are they "sexualizing" me.
@itinkuno I don't think personal anecdote really works here. You not having been assaulted by strangers doesn't speak to other situations where other women weren't so lucky. If using 'mysogynist' is a stretch for you, then I can step back and at least call Dawkins and TJ sexists. TJ has a pattern of this type of word usage so I do believe he has issues (is it hard to critique feminism without using the word cunt??). As for Dawkins mocking Rebecca Watson by comparing her incident to...
@cannedkitty ...oppression in the middle east was just incredibly cheap. One common thread I've noticed in the insults toward Watson is a projection, it seems, of every "nice guy" who's been rejected by a girl, shocked that such "nice guys" could ever make a woman feel uncomfortable. What it really is is an inability to handle rejection and the frustration, I believe, is apparent in all the vitriol that has been unfairly hurled at Watson.
@cannedkitty w8w8w8. You just called TJ a fat dickhead. That's MISANDRY!! I don't think you hate fat people or men because you used that language. I think you hate TJ. Which is fine!! But don't be hypocritical. He was criticizing Watson, not hating on women. Dawkens was doing the same. Misogynists hate WOMEN. Criticizing a specific feminists does not a misogynist make. Heated language happens constantly on the internet.
@itinkuno "Bitch" and "cunt", word TJ often employs when describing women he dislikes (feminists in particular) are gendered insults just as the N-word is a specific insult reserved for a certain race. We can argue about the severity of either but the matter remains is those words are gendered which implies that a person's gender is actually a part of the insult. "Fat" isn't gendered. "Dickhead" perhaps but me and TJ are both beneficiaries of male privilege so these words are meaningless...
@cannedkitty (cont...)...in the same way calling a white person a 'honkey' is meaningless. The impact is much different when the insult is coming from a traditionally privileged member of society (men) toward a traditionally oppressed member of society (women). You're trying to get me on semantics but context is so very important when we are discussing relationships between different groups in society.
@cannedkitty you say TJ and you are both beneficiaries of male privilage as though TJ automatically has privilage over white women to succeed. I disagree. As far as his weight, overweight people, of either gender, have a greater disadvantage and are more slandered than slender attractive members of either sex.
@MrNicMachiavelli Huge difference: These are not birthrights. No one is born fat, and if they become overweight they can choose to lose that weight. You can not, however, change being born black or being born a woman.
@cannedkitty sure, some can, some struggle with it or have an illness, but who cares? They are still treated far worse. Given women's successes in the past 30 years they are not in a worse position and you are also definately in a better position if you suffer from depression. White women, so long as they are not unattractive (which sucks for anybody), are in an equally good position most of the time as men as most men. They don't have it worse.
@cannedkitty I'm sorry but those rape statistics are somewhat fixed. Men tend to not report being rape. There is a greater stigma that goes along with it.
I didn't read Dawkins' quote, but I heard it was along the lines of, who really cares if a creepy guy asked you out at an awkward time. I can quasi understand why she made that video, but really, it was a rather pointless video, and in my opinion, one of her worst. Personally I am a fan of hers, but that video was pretty annoying.
@Jonstern1983 C'mon this is silly. Why is every post supporting feminism always met with 'well men have it bad too'? gender equity is not a zero sum game. we aren't talking about men here, and men get raped by other men anyway. why does one issue have to be detrimental to the other? it's not a competition. this is just a way to shut feminists up. feminists promote the breaking down of gender roles, i.e. men being more open with their emotions, and male victims confronting assault/rape.
@cannedkitty The way you phrased it made it seem like you felt that all men are sexual predators. Even now you deny that women are even capable of rape. It is not a zero sum game, as you put it, this is true, but I'm pointing out that there isn't as much (if any) inequality in rape as is imagined by popular culture. Also, it was just a creepy guy asking someone out on an elevator, rape had nothing to do with it. I honestly think the guy was a fan and just wanted to pick her brain a bit.
@Jonstern1983 It has nothing to do with my phrasing and everything to do with your interpretation. Men get really defensive about their privilege. As men, we have the benefit of women being the symbol of sexuality thus relegating their roles to just simply being attractive for us. Not being weird in a confined space such as an elevator at 4am is not asking much as a trade off for that inequity. But you dudes are acting like I'm asking you to chop your dicks off.
@cannedkitty women are not just seen by society and most men as sexual objects anymore. Look at their success rates in college and that they are achieving most of the professional degrees.
@cannedkitty by the way, men are looked at as financial objects, that is better? Not to me. If I was a billionaire I still wouldn't want to be seen that way. No better. Feminists never complain though.
@MrNicMachiavelli Yes it's much better. Wealth can be attained in array of ways, in disciplines that value personality, self worth and intelligence. You dumb piece of shit, don't act out on this thread because you get rejected by women. Typical anti-feminist: a dumb sack of meat who wants to get angry because they are rejected by women. Go hit the gym and maybe get a degree you fucking loser.
@cannedkitty I have an MA and I don't have a problem getting women. I just made a point that it isn't better to be objectified for wealth. It has nothin to do with intelligence or self-worth. It is shallow bullshit. You are okay with women seeing men as financial objects. Nor am against equalty. Typical pussy male radical feminist. You can't have a discussion, think for yourself, and your positions are set to impress girls.
@cannedkitty So, women don't objectify men at all? Really? Personally, I would love to be objectified more, but the standards for male beauty are so much higher than the standards for female beauty. I'm not pretending you want to chop my dick off, I'm saying one encounter with one creepy guy isn't a big fucking deal.
I hate standing alone in elevators with strangers, especially with women. Rebecca probably knows that the guy was socially awkward and is just demonizing him for her own amusement.
OperatorOscillation 5 months ago
Are your glasses taped together? -and why do I find that strangely sexy?
aswtx75 5 months ago
The dictionary definition of misogyny is "hatred of women", but the feminist definition (according to wikipedia) is "any negative attitude towards women", so something like a man opening a door for a woman or paying for dinner is misogyny in the mind of many feminists.
Feminists use many words differently than the dictionary: "privilege", "rights", "force", "rape", "sex", "hate", "misogyny", "women's bodies", "selling", "equal", etc. don't mean what common people understand them to mean.
sharrynuk 5 months ago
@sharrynuk Zzzz boring.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty I'm not an entertainer.
sharrynuk 5 months ago
@sharrynuk clearly.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
Well said.
Nice to hear this from a woman.
Wait.. did you just say you don't read your comments?
blast...
LordNapalm 5 months ago
Massage has been given a bad wrap. Massage helps build and keep muscle. Why rail against massage? Yapping "massageny" like giving or getting massage is a bad thing, is like trying to cast nutrition in a bad light. Dang strong and fit massagenistic nutritionists... mmm ok!
danielvincentkelley 5 months ago
Also I don't recall her ever calling the elevator guy a 'misogynist' so I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but the response to her video was overwhelmingly a self-fulfilling prophecy of the sexism and misogyny she specifically spoke about at that conference. So, incidentally, when you're called a stuck up cunt for feeling justifiably uncomfortable in that situation, I don't believe the use of 'misogyny' here is 'liberally used',in fact its wholly justified.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
I don't really have an opinion on Rebecca Watson, but being in a elevator at that time of night/morning alone with a stranger are very vulnerable moments for women, considering all the male on female rape statistics out there I think she was justified in feeling uncomfortable. Nonetheless there an IMMENSELY overblown reactionary response where people like TJ felt the need to call her a 'bitch' and 'cunt', and Richard Dawkins outing himself as misogynist with his complete dismissal of a very...
cannedkitty 5 months ago
Comment removed
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty (cont.)...valid concern. These are the most common responses whenever anything remotely resembling a discussion on feminism occurs, and that is what really needs to be called out here.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty Yes, TJ and Richard Dawkins HATE WOMEN. Clearly. This is what I mean by "misogyny" being used too much. If the term describes Dawkins and TJ it doesn't really mean a lot to me. As far as rape statistics go, acquaintances are more dangerous to women then strangers. This is coming from a tiny and incredibly careless female. I've put up with more sexual harassment from busboys I work with then, say, a guy who is the only other person on the train I'm on. Strangers talk to me . .
itinkuno 5 months ago
@itinkuno . . . all the time, often on public transportation with no one else around. Sometimes they are drunk, sometimes they are schizophrenic, hardly ever are they "sexualizing" me.
itinkuno 5 months ago
@itinkuno I don't think personal anecdote really works here. You not having been assaulted by strangers doesn't speak to other situations where other women weren't so lucky. If using 'mysogynist' is a stretch for you, then I can step back and at least call Dawkins and TJ sexists. TJ has a pattern of this type of word usage so I do believe he has issues (is it hard to critique feminism without using the word cunt??). As for Dawkins mocking Rebecca Watson by comparing her incident to...
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty ...oppression in the middle east was just incredibly cheap. One common thread I've noticed in the insults toward Watson is a projection, it seems, of every "nice guy" who's been rejected by a girl, shocked that such "nice guys" could ever make a woman feel uncomfortable. What it really is is an inability to handle rejection and the frustration, I believe, is apparent in all the vitriol that has been unfairly hurled at Watson.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@itinkuno " I've put up with more sexual harassment from busboys I work with then, say, a guy who is the only other person on the train I'm on. "
lol...someday you'll miss when guys "harassed" you.
MoneyIsSilver 5 months ago
@cannedkitty w8w8w8. You just called TJ a fat dickhead. That's MISANDRY!! I don't think you hate fat people or men because you used that language. I think you hate TJ. Which is fine!! But don't be hypocritical. He was criticizing Watson, not hating on women. Dawkens was doing the same. Misogynists hate WOMEN. Criticizing a specific feminists does not a misogynist make. Heated language happens constantly on the internet.
itinkuno 5 months ago
@itinkuno "Bitch" and "cunt", word TJ often employs when describing women he dislikes (feminists in particular) are gendered insults just as the N-word is a specific insult reserved for a certain race. We can argue about the severity of either but the matter remains is those words are gendered which implies that a person's gender is actually a part of the insult. "Fat" isn't gendered. "Dickhead" perhaps but me and TJ are both beneficiaries of male privilege so these words are meaningless...
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty (cont...)...in the same way calling a white person a 'honkey' is meaningless. The impact is much different when the insult is coming from a traditionally privileged member of society (men) toward a traditionally oppressed member of society (women). You're trying to get me on semantics but context is so very important when we are discussing relationships between different groups in society.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty the idea of women having been "oppressed"is laughable.
MoneyIsSilver 5 months ago
@cannedkitty just curious, but were the women who got the first seats of the Titanic's lifeboats "oppressed"?
MoneyIsSilver 5 months ago
@cannedkitty You're telling me "Bitch" is a gendered insult? Bitch, please.
IPITYTHEFOOLZ 5 months ago
@cannedkitty you say TJ and you are both beneficiaries of male privilage as though TJ automatically has privilage over white women to succeed. I disagree. As far as his weight, overweight people, of either gender, have a greater disadvantage and are more slandered than slender attractive members of either sex.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli Huge difference: These are not birthrights. No one is born fat, and if they become overweight they can choose to lose that weight. You can not, however, change being born black or being born a woman.
cannedkitty 2 months ago
@cannedkitty sure, some can, some struggle with it or have an illness, but who cares? They are still treated far worse. Given women's successes in the past 30 years they are not in a worse position and you are also definately in a better position if you suffer from depression. White women, so long as they are not unattractive (which sucks for anybody), are in an equally good position most of the time as men as most men. They don't have it worse.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli excuse mistypes, doing 20 things at once
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@cannedkitty I'm sorry but those rape statistics are somewhat fixed. Men tend to not report being rape. There is a greater stigma that goes along with it.
I didn't read Dawkins' quote, but I heard it was along the lines of, who really cares if a creepy guy asked you out at an awkward time. I can quasi understand why she made that video, but really, it was a rather pointless video, and in my opinion, one of her worst. Personally I am a fan of hers, but that video was pretty annoying.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983 C'mon this is silly. Why is every post supporting feminism always met with 'well men have it bad too'? gender equity is not a zero sum game. we aren't talking about men here, and men get raped by other men anyway. why does one issue have to be detrimental to the other? it's not a competition. this is just a way to shut feminists up. feminists promote the breaking down of gender roles, i.e. men being more open with their emotions, and male victims confronting assault/rape.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@cannedkitty The way you phrased it made it seem like you felt that all men are sexual predators. Even now you deny that women are even capable of rape. It is not a zero sum game, as you put it, this is true, but I'm pointing out that there isn't as much (if any) inequality in rape as is imagined by popular culture. Also, it was just a creepy guy asking someone out on an elevator, rape had nothing to do with it. I honestly think the guy was a fan and just wanted to pick her brain a bit.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983 It has nothing to do with my phrasing and everything to do with your interpretation. Men get really defensive about their privilege. As men, we have the benefit of women being the symbol of sexuality thus relegating their roles to just simply being attractive for us. Not being weird in a confined space such as an elevator at 4am is not asking much as a trade off for that inequity. But you dudes are acting like I'm asking you to chop your dicks off.
cannedkitty 2 months ago
@cannedkitty women are not just seen by society and most men as sexual objects anymore. Look at their success rates in college and that they are achieving most of the professional degrees.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli lol don't make me laugh, rapist.
cannedkitty 2 months ago
@cannedkitty and they actually aren't seen as just sex symbols except by a minority of men.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@cannedkitty by the way, men are looked at as financial objects, that is better? Not to me. If I was a billionaire I still wouldn't want to be seen that way. No better. Feminists never complain though.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli Yes it's much better. Wealth can be attained in array of ways, in disciplines that value personality, self worth and intelligence. You dumb piece of shit, don't act out on this thread because you get rejected by women. Typical anti-feminist: a dumb sack of meat who wants to get angry because they are rejected by women. Go hit the gym and maybe get a degree you fucking loser.
cannedkitty 2 months ago
@cannedkitty I have an MA and I don't have a problem getting women. I just made a point that it isn't better to be objectified for wealth. It has nothin to do with intelligence or self-worth. It is shallow bullshit. You are okay with women seeing men as financial objects. Nor am against equalty. Typical pussy male radical feminist. You can't have a discussion, think for yourself, and your positions are set to impress girls.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@cannedkitty So, women don't objectify men at all? Really? Personally, I would love to be objectified more, but the standards for male beauty are so much higher than the standards for female beauty. I'm not pretending you want to chop my dick off, I'm saying one encounter with one creepy guy isn't a big fucking deal.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
@cannedkitty "feminists promote the breaking down of gender roles"
I've noticed this to not be true. The goal of feminists, as far as I can tell, is to antagonize males to no end and to further their own privilages.
OperatorOscillation 5 months ago
Yo Liz, would you care to get some 4am coffee with me tonight?
Hatchyack 5 months ago
@Hatchyack um HOW DARE YOU
itinkuno 5 months ago