Jehovah's Witnesses Part 2: Is denying medical treatment suicide?

[noopegins]

I'd say the answer to this is easy- its doctrine. Its belief. Any belief makes seemingly contradictory readings internally consistent. If you belief a blood transfusion will violate a rule about eating blood, to violate that rule violates a bigger rule- the first commandment. I mean thou shall do no murder (and unless god commands the slaying is the caveat).

Is stopping dialysis that keeps you alive suicide? Chemo? What about just not taking your blood pressure meds? Yes? No?

[mollie2810]

BTW: As far as I am informed doctors in Germany give a shit about that and put their duty of saving lives above the crazy beliefs of people.

[shalindriaharam]

that's it!!! I'm moving to Europe! *packing bags* my list of reasons would be long.

[mollie2810]

We did have law suits here about cases like that but the doctors always win because it would be non-assistance of a person in danger if they don't help. But then again ... as far as I know the JWs have something with them which is like blood but not really blood and can be used for transfusion if necessary. I do not really know what but something synthetic.

[mollie2810]

Checked it. One thing to use instead of blood is called "Perfluorcarbon". :)

[mollie2810]

We have beautiful landscapes to draw. And awesome coffee and beer. :D

[mollie2810]

"Is denying medical treatment suicide?"

There is no answer to this reason. It would be possible to discuss this on a scientific way or on an ethical way but when ever religion takes part all logic is lost. JWs let others die because it's there belief and everybody who doesn't follow this belief thinks that cruel. If I imagine that my loved ones would let me die because of a belief it makes me shudder.

[GrayMGrayson]

we are all decendents of Noah and adam & Eve and we all share some of the same blood cells so why not give blood to your brothers and sisters!

[AntiJehovahsWitness]

No sucking people's blood? That's wrong? Where are you from? :)

[utukkuxul]

As Antijehovahswitness pointed out in one of his newest videos, a JW will willingly talk to a Catholic, Pagan, Buddhist, or even Satanist, but not an ex-member. Somehow an ex-member is scarier than a Pagan or a Satanist to them.

[utukkuxul]

Hm, maybe that's the case.

[utukkuxul]

Actually it seems divided, half seem to become fanatical fundies, the other half atheists.

[Lekozza]

When you decide to come back to the Truth I can guarantee that you will be welcomed with open arms.

I will even forgive you for calling me a Zombie.

L.

[Lekozza]

It has nothing to do with me being a coward - I block all insolent people.

Unfortunately, due to the high numbers of troublesome users on Youtube, I loose track of the people I block. Sorry.

[Lekozza]

You do say some silly things.

I've just been reading a briliant artical on the Watchtower site.

"Should You Believe Everything You Hear?"

L.

[Lekozza]

Hospital Liaison Committees

Google "Jehovah's Witnesses and the

Medical Profession Cooperate"

Looking forward to more insults.

[utukkuxul]

Does this mean you're not going to take my challenge? I haven't been inconsiderate with you at all, and I think my method can settle the matter. If you're not interested please at least let me know.

[Lekozza]

I will look into it and try and respond some time in the very near future.

It's now 5am, time I got some sleep.

L.

[utukkuxul]

Okay thanks.

[utukkuxul]

As I said before, the law only applies when preserving life. It's why a Jew can eat a pig if he's starving and has no alternative. It applies to blood transfusions also... which aren't even "Eating" blood to begin with.

Remember when the WT taught that vaccines caused demonic possession? lol

[shalindriaharam]

well thank you! I used it because I want people to think about this sorta thing before they die. : )

[shalindriaharam]

hey Giza, if they replaced the word "blood" with "oxygen" in the doctrine, do you think the thought process would be the same? That oxygen is pretty important stuff! :D

[utukkuxul]

I've never heard of someone getting blood to help with chemo.

[shalindriaharam]

ok, what about dialysis? if you change the nature of the blood, would that make Jehovah mad?  Honest question.

[utukkuxul]

"ok, what about dialysis? if you change the nature of the blood, would that make Jehovah mad? Honest question."

No it wouldn't, nor would it make Santa mad if you didn't leave him cookies and milk, or the tooth fairy mad if you didn't put a tooth under the pillow. It's not actually possible to make fictional beings angry.

[LeonardoFilms]

That scripture was written how many years before blood transfusions were invented?

[utukkuxul]

In Judaism they believe the Law was made to preserve life not destroy it. The issue of blood transfusions is null to them because the Law cannot be used to destroy life. It's the same reason a Jew starving in the desert could eat a pig if it's all he could find. They find the whole blood transfusion policy of the JWs to be confusing and ridiculous.

[shalindriaharam]

you got a good point. one scripture says; "love your brother as you would love yourself". So when people donate blood, I would think it's an act of compassion.

[Lekozza]

The world is a cult.

L.

[Lekozza]

Not sure how you can compare this to murder/suicide. Rejecting blood transfusions is not rejecting medical treatment. They want treatment, just not blood. Most surgical procedures are not life threatening and the 1-2 pints of blood sometimes transfused during minor surgery is unnecessary($). In trauma cases the situation is different, the person will be in a life threatening situation and there is no time to waste when seeking blood alternatives. Continued...

[Lekozza]

Most hospitals will have procedures in place to deal with this.

Anyone suffering a trauma has most likely suffered a serious accident, like a car wreck. Blood is not a miracle cure for trauma cases, there is no guarantee of survival. The high number of (non-JW) people that unfortuanly die each year in car accidents would of all been given lots of blood to try and save them, but due to extent of their injuries they still die. Continued...

[Lekozza]

If this even gets a mention in the local news media, it will report that the person died because of the accident, end of story. If the person was found to be a JW, then the story is more likely to be reported everywhere and the reason for death will be different - "because they did not take a blood transfusion", regardless of all the facts and extent of the injuries. Continued...

[Lekozza]

Just remember that blood is a multi-billion $ business. Greed is a big incentive to keep pushing the myth that blood is some kind of miracle cure-all. Continued...

[Lekozza]

Do you think that the JWs who were put in the concentration camps during WWII, committed potential suicide for refusing to support Hitler?

The book of Revelation tells us that those who refuse to worship the "image of the beast" are to be killed. Is that suicide for refusing to worship something other than your God, even though you know that you will be killed for taking that stand?

Is refusing blood transfusions, while accepting any other viable alternative treatment, suicide? Continued..

[Lekozza]

I don't think so, because these people are obeying God rather than man, even though they may risk death.

Revelation 13:15, Acts 5:29, 1John 5:3

Google: Wiki Physical trauma

Google: Blood Myths

end.

[shalindriaharam]

I'm going to stop you right there. My Aunt Sophie survived the Nazi occupation of Poland. Hitler was not God, therefore opposing him would hold no negative spiritual consequences. It doesn't answer the fundamental quesiton: if you reject potentially life-saving medical treatment, are you commiting suicide? It's called going AMA (against medical advice), and this was also directed at Christian Scientists.

[Lekozza]

As I have already said, they do not reject medical treatment.

L.

[utukkuxul]

Are you going to find those statistics so you can answer my Blood Transfusion Challenge, or did you give up when I issued it?

[utukkuxul]

"The high number of (non-JW) people that unfortuanly die each year in car accidents would of all been given lots of blood to try and save them, but due to extent of their injuries they still die."

And people with cancer still die with chemo, but they also sometimes live. Lots of treatments don't always work. That doesn't make them useless. (Though personally I'd rather die of cancer than undergo chemo.)