Is God the author of Sin? RE: Dear John Calvin

[SamiasCaesar]

Does this also imply that God could ordain your fall from grace, or, worse yet, that God could place a stumbling block in your path that compels you to adopt a life of sin? So, God is a deceiver? God is Lucifer?

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@SamiasCaesar - The Bible does say that God deceives people so that they will incur judgment. That is, causes them to believe what is false so that they will be punished for their sins. This does not make God Lucifer (who isn't in the Bible btw, just a bad translation).

[SamiasCaesar]

@JoelTheCalvinist Okay, I'll call him the Evil One. I better keep an eye out for one of God's deceptions. It all makes sense, though. Only a loving God would delude my moral judgement so that I must reap the consequences of something that transpired beyond my will, inevitably casting my soul into the eternal flames of hell. All for God's loving and divine plan, right? I sure do love narrow interpretations of scripture! I think I might go stone some children to death for disobeying their elders.

[DavidTheCatholic]

@Savedbygrace70 comment i sent you, was sending it to joel

[DavidTheCatholic]

@Savedbygrace70 wrong person.

[DavidTheCatholic]

@Savedbygrace70 Isnt God the author of sin, I thought, he was, he allowed adam and eve to sin, so it means, it was already there, by him.

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@Savedbygrace70 - Yes. I would change the word "use" to something like "meant." "Use" kind of insinuates a reaction of sorts. Like, sin happened and that was outside of my scope, but I can USE it to do something good.

God MEANT for sin to lead to the crucifixion of his son.

[DavidTheCatholic]

@JoelTheCalvinist Isnt God the author of sin, I thought, he was, he allowed adam and eve to sin, so it means, it was already there, by him.

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@Savedbygrace70 - Yes. If the plan for salvation existed before the world was created, the so did the fore-ordination of sin.

All to the glory of God.

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@JoelTheCalvinist What haphazard scriptural exegeses is this? Sir, you need to take these videos down, because you are only storing up judgment for yourself! Now, When God speaks of Him deceiving a prophet, He is speaking of His judgment upon that prophet.Many passages speak of God "turning over" or hardening or blinding, but it is clear that it is because of their choices.He speaks in terms of His hand in it when He says"I" did it. The devil actually did it but God allows it intentionally. cont

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@JoelTheCalvinist it pleased the Lord to bruise Jesus(Is 53) and in another place says that the demons did it(1Cor2:8,Jn14:30). Both are true. God saying He did or sent something doesn't mean that He moved a man toward evil.God tempts no man to evil James 1:14-17.God can remove His restraints and allow blindness to come BECAUSE OF OUR CHOICES. Rom1:28:"because they did not like to retain the knowledge of God,God gave them over"2Thes2:11-12FOR THIS CAUSE God shall send a them strong delusion.cont

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Three days, and only silence. Have you nothing to say? But you were so certain of yourself, surely you have an answer. Or maybe you've never read what Satan said to God in Job 1:11-12

"But now stretch out Your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power . . . "

And was it not God who sent an evil spirit to plague King Saul?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle I actually dealt with "evil from the Lord", in Job, in my comment directed to "Joel the Calvinist".

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Tell me, my friend, Jesus said in John 10:14. that He came to lay His life down for His sheep. At the same time He said this, He said also to another group of people that they were not His sheep - John 10:26. How is it possible then that Jesus came to die for everyone, when in fact He very clearly said that there were people He did not come to lay His life down for?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle Yes,Jesus laid His life down for the sheep. Jesus also laid His life for the world(no exception implied). Both are true in it's proper sense. He laid His life down for the joy set before Him(the church). If I go out in the cold and try to compel all homeless,to come into a warm shelter before they freeze to death, some of them may scornfully reject the offer. the true motivation for me, nevertheless, are those who will receive the offer.I'm offering it to all, but truly doing for them

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@JoelTheCalvinist So, God is showing that He will,IN JUDGMENT,remove restraints and allow a(out of step) prophet's deception go forward, maybe even to full blossom,in Ez14:9.Else,why would He single out their prophets, if it were true that every time any one sins it is God causing it?Why would He want them to know assuredly that God was deceiving that prophet?See,if that prophet couldn't discern their falseness and rebuke them for even coming for a word in such pretense, he would be given over.

[rofyle]

Man will go to any lengths in an effort to prove he himself is worthy of praise and worship. This is at the core of every religion; man hoping he can work himself towards that ultimate goal of receiving a pat on the back, a word of praise from God. This is what Armi's mean when they say, your God is evil, or your God is unfair. What they really mean is, they hate the fact that God cares not one wit about man's glory. The earth was created to glorify Christ - not man!

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle The Calvinistic depiction of God is evil as the devil himself. Only a depraved mind (like the unrepentant murderer, Calvin) could create such a horrific view of The Blessed Creator.That He would burn men FOR EVER AND EVER,for merely being born and having survived infancy and childhood, and doing what they could not help doing and never had any kind of a chance to repent from doing, is reprehensible beyond words.How do you so willfully let an unrepentant murderer take you down that path?

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks I guess that means you believe the devil wrote the Bible, because the Calvinist God is exactly the way the Bible describes God.

"Who can command and have it done, if the Lord has not ordained it? Is not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?" - Lamentations 3:37-38

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle First,to go to Lamentations to establish doctrine,with its obscure saying and poetic licences,is a questionable practice. kjv states vs37"who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?39 wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins? So the bad or evil was for the punishment of there sins.Job called it evil from the Lord(which was good for his soul)in Job2:10.So the term is referring to God making use of evil to try or chastise.

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Rather than waste time going back and forth, me quoting Scripture and you equivocating it, I'll just go ahead and wipe you out. God knew what Satan would do before God created Satan. And yet God created Satan anyway. God knew what Adam would do before God created him, yet God created Adam anyway. God knows who will go to Hell before He creates them, yet He creates them anyway. Why? And who does that make responsible for the existence of sin?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle The problem with such presumptions, is that it is mere finite human intrusion and half-baked musings into things WAY too high for oneself. oh the depth and the riches of both the wisdom and knowledge of God, how UNSEARCHABLE are His judgments and His ways past finding out. So we ought to take frightful pause whenever we begin to attempt to discuss or even to contemplate such things as God's foreknowledge and what role it plays. It's UNSEARCHABLE

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle now, to your presumption that implies that God is responsible for sin, I want you to consider what free will truly means. If God is to have real lovers who freely chose Him and become worthy of such a glorious inheritance as was desired for mankind, satan became the useful instrument in trying man. God in His omniscience foresaw( not intended, enticed or anything of such a warped view) the fall of satan. If freewill is freewill then God must suffer us to chose wrong if we will.cont

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle God had a higher creation and a higher inheritance than the angels, in His heart, and satan rebellion was deemed as the opportunity to have the necessary temptation, in order to prove their worthiness. We see something striking concerning God's ways, that He is not willing to give something so valuable to those who haven't worked and made good on the godly nature and ability given them. thus not only was a tempter loose in the garden but a somewhat confusing commandment.trust was needed

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle now, to say that God intended or even caused mankind to fall, is what you get when you allow a sensual man, void of the Spirit,like Calvin become your Bible teacher. what blasphemy! God is light, and in Him is NO darkness at all. It grieves God more than we can fathom, when men choose darkness. But, if He was going to have true lovers upon whom He could bestow the most glorious inheritance, He has to let free will take it's course no matter what He knows will happen.Freewill IS freewill

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle Oh the Sovereignty of Jehovah! Although it was never His intent that any ever sin,He already has a plan to use it for something higher.The fall of man was used to redeem man to higher place than whence he fell!He will be glorified even if its in our destruction.He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but if we won't keep His commandments to live holy, we will glorify Him in our destruction! which leads to the next point;once saved always saved is a doctrine of demons!2Pet2:20

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks That doesn't answer the question. In fact, all you've done is demonstrate how small you take God's omniscience to be. Again I will ask you the question. God knew what Satan would do before God created Satan. And yet God created Satan anyway. Why? The topic of what God planned to do about what Satan did is besides the point. God still knew what Satan would do before He created Satan. Who does that make responsible for the existence of what Satan did?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle Again, the presumption and unbridled rashness in your wondering into things too high for your carnal mind is abundantly evident.God knowing you will sin doesn't make Him responsible for it. He has to let free will take its course, and is willing to suffer rebellion.Whether or not we can fully understand it, it is right and just. He draws men away from sin and thoroughly furnishes us with the opportunities to escape the wrath to come but will not force obedience.don't blame God like Adam

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Where is free will in Matthew 11:25? At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

Where is it in John 10:25-26? Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep."

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle (i actually already, soundly answered these type scriptures in my response to "joelthecalvinist") Whenever the Bible speaks of God sending evil, hardening or blinding, He is speaking of His judgement. If you understand this, you will be more able to rightly divide(establish boundaries) the word. He is purposefully allowing the devil to blind or harden, so He, in speaking in terms of His Sovereignty, says "I did it". It is to cause us to fear this being given over in anger.

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Where is free will in Acts 2:23? "God definitely planned and intended to have Him betrayed, and so you had wicked men nail Him to a cross, and you killed Him."

Where is it in Genesis 3:15? "I will put emnity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

In Romans 11:8? "Just as it is written, 'God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not and ears to hear not, down to this very day.'"

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle 2Cor 4:3-4 but if our gospel be hid...the god of this world has blinded...Mat11:25 says God has hidden. which one is it? both are true in their proper sense.God will, in wrath, turn one over. now that we have clarified that its not God actually intending that one sins or be blind,but He in His justice will allow the devil to overcome some, we must ask why?Yes,He has mercy or hardens whom He wills. But what determines His will?James 4:6 God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks What about 2 Thessalonians 2:11? "And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false."

Exodus 33:19? "And He said, 'I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.'"

John 6:44? "No one can come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws him"

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle So always keep in mind that it's in judgement of the persons heart or actions that God is said to blind and you will begin to climb your way out of the theological ditch that the murderous dictator has led you into.the scripture you quoted proves the point 2Thes2:11 FOR THIS CAUSE God will send them a strong delusion. not because he has pleasure in the death of the wicked(Ez33:11).or Rom1:28 even as THEY did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over.They made a choice

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks You see, you presume it is my carnal mind that has imagined the idea that free will doesn't exist. You don't see the fact that man's will is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness, but it is never free. What you don't realize is that the man who disagrees with this proves he is a slave to sin. He rejects the Spirit's word.

There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. - Romans 3:9-12

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle So, you believe that being a Christian is inextricably linked to being a 5 point Calvinist. You believe when one rejects these doctrines that they show that they are a slave to sin. This level of indoctrination and brain washing is hard to for me to fathom.So you must believe no one was saved who believed they had a free will and could lose their salvation, before Calvin was born? What you don't realize is that you are carrying a lot of presumption and indoctrination into those passages.

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle I don't know what you mean to say by quoting Rom 3:9-12but if you are saying that It's only by God forcing a person to do right, I don't agree.Furthermore, this scripture ought to cause much fear and trembling if you rightly divide it.We are not to presume that we have escaped these pronouncements because we have responded favorably to the gospel message.This applied to all to some degree, even the most righteous of the old covenant, they couldn't do good, seek or understand as needed

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle this is referring to the overt sinner and to the ineptness of the natural man even in those who were trying valiantly. Many are seeking God without salvation, many are endeavoring to walk with God far more than many who have been born again,but do not know that God came down and walked among us and gave Himself a ransom ect. many are trying to do good which shows the work of God in them Rom2:15.The deeds of the Law couldn't justify(make us able to do good).it aroused and strengthened sin

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle if Jesus is now IN US,the righteousness of the Law is to be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh(conscious of the old man Rom7:5,the thou shalt nots,the sinful nature which arouses sin)Rom8:4.If we are not in a higher place of righteous living than that which the old covenant could produce, if we don't have the marks of this new supernatural enabling(the seal of the Holy Ghost),how are we so confident we are in the faith.the standard has been raised.Gal5:24,Heb10:26-29,1Jo­hn1:5-7

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle see you can foolishly split hairs on what predestination, ordaining and choosing means all day, and try to meddle into what really only God knows, if you want to waste your time(unprofitable and vain). But, Calvinism is most deadly in that it lulls you to sleep to presume that if you have ever had an authentic experience with God and have been assured that you were truly saved, you rest in a lie that you can never lose it. There is much pressing,striving and agonizing to done.Mat7:13

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks So I guess the questions are foolish only when answering them requires you to face up to the contradictions inherent in your self-refuting theology, right?

If God does not keep saved people saved, then He's not really honest, is He?

And this is the will of him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. - John 6:37

And of course, if it's you who keeps you saved, then it's not really God who saves, is it?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle Jesus did what it took to lose none as a man/Pastor on earth and will do all it takes to lose none in heaven as God Almighty, all the way to the resurrection.If we fall away it's not Jesus losing us. He equips and is able to keep us from falling. now, that there are some who were once saved and fall away, is irrefutably Biblical. 2Pet2:20 can one be said to have escaped who has unregenerate and actually living holy at one point?if the latter end is worse, then they lost their salvation

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle You have not chosen me, I have chosen you, does not say they we don't have to chose. it puts the emphasis on God choosing to give grace. Many receive a special call but few are chosen. Mat 22:1-14 shows that its those who answer the call are the chosen ones. When we make good on the grace given (trade with our goods) we are given more grace to come further into holiness.Yet it's ALL by God choosing not to let us harden.Don't run with this and imagine that you can't be damned.

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks @Ruddermanspeaks So I guess the questions are foolish when answering them requires you to face up to the contradictions in your self-refuting theology, right?

If God does not keep saved people saved, then He's not really honest, is He?

And this is the will of him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. - John 6:37

And of course, if it's you who keeps you saved, then it's not really God who saves, is it?

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle What will you say to Heb 6:4-6 "it is impossible if they shall fall away TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE.they had once truly repented or it wouldn't say "again". Whether you believe this refers to the unpardonable sin or that is impossible for a man to be used to renew them again to repentance after they came so far and fell, It's irrefutable that this person had truly repented at some point. IT'S NOT OUR BUSINESS what God foreknows,we must make our election sure, persevere to the end.

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks Of Hebrews 6:4-6, I will say that I think a certain somebody needs to consider the word "impossible." It is impossible for them to fall away. That's the point. Because if they could fall away, then their return would mean crucifying Christ again. Again, Scripture must be interpreted in the light of Scripture. John 6:39 - And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

[Ruddermanspeaks]

@rofyle what a shame that you would so lust to be apart of an evil man's system of theology that you would willfully curse yourself by willfully attempting to twist God blessed and Holy word. Where else will you find life if you trash and hold the Word in contempt?YOU KNOW that it clearly says that it is impossible to "renew them again to repentance" not "impossible for them to fall away".they that do such, crucify the Lord afresh(figuratively as in Heb1029)and put Him to an open shame(POSSIBLE)

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks What I find shameful is the fact you can't read passages in their context. Of course it is impossible to renew them again, simply because it is impossible for them to fall away. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF HEB. 10:1-2!!!! If there were anything we could do to make ourselves acceptable to God, we would only need to do it once, for it would have sufficed to have made us perfect forever. The fact you continually repent PROVES THAT YOUR REPENTANCE CAN NEVER MAKE YOU ACCEPTABLE!

[rofyle]

@Ruddermanspeaks There is only one thing that can make a person acceptable to God. It only needed to be done once. THAT IS WHY THOSE TO WHOM IT IS APPLIED CAN NEVER FALL AWAY! Or in other words, if it were possible for one to fall away, it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance, BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE WORK THAT MAKE A PERSON ACCEPTABLE TO GOD!!

[GBFNorwalk]

You bank on Gods sovereignty over mans responsibility for no other reason than not to be responsible for sinning from a truly free will. This is merely an excuse and an attempt to blame God for your evil. Yes God in the Calvinism you hold to is the author of evil when taken to its theological conclusion.

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@GBFNorwalk - I guess you know me better than I do. Thanks for the encouragement, brother. God bless.

[GBFNorwalk]

@JoelTheCalvinist

Sorry, I did not mean to disrespect you. God bless.

[Doomkin1110]

Excellent video, brother. God Most High is holy and sovereign; to Him be honor and everlasting dominion. Amen.

[Chadakiel]

Horse Hockey!! The Bible, a book made written by hundreds of authors. It is a book that creates wars and hatred toward specific groups of people both in the past and future. It is contradictory and leaves everyone guessing as to its truth. It has been written and rewritten, books have been taken away and added and if it was truly meant to be the Word of God, it certainly isn't today, so get over it and stop preaching the BS. We don't need it to survive, be saved or for any other good of man.

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@Chadakiel - Looks like you watch too much TV and don't actually read because literally none of this is true lol.

[Itrytotestify]

Thank you for the video, Joel.

[PreachingJesusToAll]

Joel I dealt withe the exact same guy who made that video. I told him that I follow the Calvinistic Theology and he made VERY false claims misunderstood what historical Calvinism teaches and he was thinking of a radical movement we Calvinists would refer to as Hyper-Calvinism heresy And ya know I believe that All true historical Arminians are Calvinist deep down somewhere in their heart because of the fact that Arminianism came out of Calvinism Overall I think that they can interlock together