Musashi Miyamoto's the Two Sword Style 二天一流武蔵会。

[CrimsonDragon2505]

I wonder why the two who actually were able to tie with Mussashi didn't become as famous?

[SaaErDetNok]

It often seems to me, that Musashi's status is more of a "western" phenomenon, than a Japanese one. I have the impression, though I may well be mistaken, that in Japan, Musashi is "*a* notable swordsman", and not "the greatest (Japanese) swordsman ever". Individuals such as e.g. Yagyu Jubei have (to my understanding) more prestige in "ken" circles in Japan than Musashi. Which isn't to say, that he was not a notable swordsman - just adding a perspective that wasn't apparent to *me* from day one.

[HipposHateWater]

Enlightening discussions in YouTube's comment box? Well I'll be!

But yeah, lumping Kendo and Kenjutsu together is like lumping European Modern Fencing and the European Renaissance Martial Arts together. (doing so will lead to a flunge/fleche coming at you from one direction, and a zornhaw from another.)

[JJTheBigDog]

i guess that's not allowed in sport kendo competitions :-)

[quillaja]

@JJTheBigDog Nitou? It sure is.

[Lordofthenipplerings]

They should genetically engineer human babies to have four arms. That way you can design the ultimate kendo form. 4 swords. Men, Kote, Do, and Tsuki at the same time.

[ninjalowang]

Where to find musashi kai in Kansai (Japan)?

Kansai ni (Nihon), Musashikai wa doko desu ka?

Thank you.

Arigato.

[tubetubetube]

Nice into.. but where is the actual video?

[ninjalowang]

anyone from musashi kai niten ichi ryu from japan here? i need a contact

[Theparableof0]

Well I'd just like to add that Miyamoto Musashi was undefeated but it was not because of a certain Ryu (school) that he seems to win. In fact, (though many translations exist) his book mentions he devoted himself to practicing the basics. Neglecting all the fancy moves of swordsmen, he kept it simple. His book is filled with practical advice. He also mastered the approach to various weapons. Learned their limits and by doing it learned counters that worked regardless of his opponent's teaching.

[Alicardcho123]

@Theparableof0 so true his style was and still is the best

[SenseiAndyTengu]

I agree, it is more sport and Musashi did not play sport. However its still nice to see two sword technique fighting, its a rare thing it seems.

[wolfwalker23]

this is not budo.... its a sport. musashi did not play sports

[drosera99]

Nito Kendo is most definitely not the same as Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu.

[ind20000]

then why did you watch the video?

[yetzirahsan]

Musashi spoke against the use of extra fast sword wielding in the book of wind, so to speak of a disadvantage due to holding two shinai(which arent even swords or true weight) is silly. An extra powerful strike and better reaction timing? Musashi spoke of the sword being unwieldly if it was held in both arms. I feel that if people want to call it authentic swordsmanship, they should at least know how it feels with the right weight and then apply that to the lighter weapon HONESTLY. Be well.

[Anthony5555454]

not only that, but he's using springing feet which Musashi also negated

[Jeimuzu]

That is why most Kendoka's do Iaido too. I am one of those who does Kendo and Iaido.

[kigurai1]

Most kendokas do not do iaido.

[nooby197]

who takes kendo here?

lol

taking two swords is kind of a bad idea because 1, the opponent has the ability to strike faster than you and without the right reaction (not like running away for all you noobs who don't know jack about kendo) you're gonna lose easily.....

btw no matter how much strength you have, it doesnt apply to kendo swords, its all about movement and reaction timing...

[mitsukai89]

then how come musashi won all his duels.

its fast to block with a wakizashi and strike with a katana. or direct a attack with the katana and stab with the wakizashi.

in the end its skill, but musashi-kai's kendo has alot advantage.

[nooby197]

heres the thing though

even with the person tries to direct an attack with the katana and stab with the wakizashi, the opponent can just stab him back cuz u also have to think about how close one has to be in order to stab with the wakizashi

also, with the two sword style is almost like an all or nothing style and can easily won by either quick rush, or even a fake out/ rush. it all depends on the quickness of the opponents sword and feet movement

[Gilmaris]

@mitsukai89 Musashi actually famously lost against Gonnosuke, who was using a jo. That's neither here nor there, however. What I really wanted to point out was that Musashi never actually used two swords in any of his duels. He made it explicitly clear in his articles of swordsmanship that the only reason he practiced with two swords, was so that he would hone his single-handed skill: one sword in one hand. This was something he thought was commonly neglected in his time.

[Gilmaris]

As for how he won his duels: dirty tricks. He would intentionally show up late in order to irritate and psyche his opponents out, he would ambush, he would do anything he needed in order to win. So it wasn't just swordskills, it was tactics, strategy and audacity.

[50diz]

@Gilmaris you know its funny that some people (not you) forget that musashi was not a swordsman he was a strategist (though he was a very skilled swordsman also)

[newtubetubetube]

@Gilmaris said "As for how he won his duels: dirty tricks. [...] So it wasn't just swordskills, it was tactics, strategy and audacity."

And bringing a gun to the fight would have been a better strategy by your definition of 'strategy'. The best strategy is not going to any fight, only a retard go to a fight. Musashi only learned that late in life and has many regrets about this. Also, he was beaten by Gonnosuke the first time. Fuck off!

[Gilmaris]

@newtubetubetube You are a very curious character. You have said nothing which contradicts anything I said, and yet you end your post with "fuck off". Tourette's?

[blackcerberus79]

@Gilmaris

You know who claims that Musashi lost that duel? People who are trying to promote "ninjutsu" or whatever... People who fight with rumors and lies because that's all they can do. And he never made it "explicitly clear" that he used two swords for the purpose of using the sword in one hand. It was just another reason. There are several recorded instances where he used both, especially later in life, and he "explicitly" promoted the use of both simultaneously.

[Gilmaris]

@blackcerberus79 Ninjutsu? What on earth does Gonnosuke have to do with ninjutsu? Gonnosuke practiced bojutsu, and developed his jojutsu - the shorter staff - as a direct result of losing the first duel with Musashi. As for practicing with two swords: "Holding a sword in my left hand [as well as my right] implies nothing special. It only helps me gain the skill to be able to hold a sword with a single hand." That's from his article explaining the name "Niten Ichi ryu".

[blackcerberus79]

@Gilmaris

Yeah, the idea that Gonnosuke used the shorter staff is from the novel by Eiji Yoshikawa. It has no basis in reality. And no, that quote is from the 35/42 Articles of Heiho. It is commonly misquoted because people use all four texts to translate. The book of Five Rings, in the passage you are trying to quote, translates into English roughly as, "It is better to use two swords rather than one when you are fighting a crowd and especially if you want to take a prisoner. "

[Gilmaris]

And no, there are NO recorded instances where he used both swords. I certainly have never come across any reliable source of such. But if you have any references, by all means, enlighten me.

[blackcerberus79]

@Gilmaris

There are recorded instances in the Nitoichiryu. (Not to be confused with the modern "Niten Ichi Ryu" which also claims direct lineage to Musashi. There are also instances recorded in the Nitenki. Of course, being that the Japanese were notoriously terrible historians, and none of us were alive at the time, I suppose we will each just have to believe what we believe.

[long1468]

it depends on ur skill

if you are better at using two swords u should use two swords

but i think it is better and more practical to use one sword becuz you can't always have two swords

[nooby197]

thank you!

[LoganBruneau]

To specifically say that one way is better would be touching too much on scemantics. Because there are so many contradictions in various strategies, it is up to the individual's own personal style and essence to defeat his opponent. Every fighter is of a different skill, body and style. For instance, when training Kenjutsu and Iaido, the precurser arts of Kendo, I prefer a single sword. My younger brother is quite skilled at using two, but we are equal fighters.

[briemkiki827]

Well said.

[Shinobudo]

In addition to everything that's been said here, I would like to add that Musashi himself never specified any specific technique (concerning which swords to use) and only stated that an individual should feel comfortable wielding the "Longsword" in both hands (Direct quote from the "Book of Five Rings). As well, Musashi built his style around 'Strategy'. Not preferance in sword, it was meant to be a universal technique that could be used, as he proved in MANY duels, with a wooden sword (Bokken)

[geraldswanson]

Miyamoto Musashi never practiced Kendo. He practiced Kenjustsu: no helmets, chest guards, face masks, etc, with realistic, true-weight bokken, not the straight bamboo shinai. And actual duels with steel swords for that matter, where life and death counted. 60+ matches (arguably) undefeated. Ichi Ryu Ni To.

[JoartCC]

Musashi got beaten by a stick wielding monk.

[jung567]

well he beat that monk before that monk beat him

[Rafflez]

@geraldswanson

bokken has a realistic weight...? This is a first.

[AceVendetta]

@Rafflez It's not quite full weight, but it's enough that when you do start using the Katana, you are already used to most of the weight. Simply put, its the step needed to using the sword. As with any training, it must always come in steps. This is why many first, second, and some third year students start with the Shinai nowadays. The shinai is a solid platform to start learning the techniques of kendo and iaido.

[Gilmaris]

@AceVendetta I would say that for Iaido, shinai are completely unsuited. Bokken are fine for beginners, but the shinai are too light, have completely wrong feel, and especially nukitsuke and chiburi feel completely wrong with shinai. With bokken it's fine, but you really should start out with an iaito as soon as possible. Use bokken only until you're sure you want to be doing Iai, at which point you should acquire an iaito at earliest opportunity.

[AceVendetta]

@Rafflez After two to three years, students move to practicing with bokken, but still spar with shinai. The reason they still spar with shinai is that bokken can easily be lethal if not careful. One of my friends had several fingers broken because of sparring with bokken before he was ready. after another two to three years, Students are moved on to practicing with dull edged metal blades.

[lazas2000]

@geraldswanson

Miyamoto Musashi died undeafeated , because of his talent in swordmansihp.. There is story wat he cut 15 man when he was fully drunk , same as legendary fight in which he used only boken , which he made it  when he travel to the duel-place..so hes one and only , the true genius.

[EmperorofTerra]

@geraldswanson 64 afaik and definitly won, otherwise you wouldn't have come that far you know ....

[newtubetubetube]

@geraldswanson Musashi is a fraud, Gonnosuke beat him square and fair. After that defeat, Musashi retired from duel. Lesson learned.

[ducttapesniper42]

@geraldswanson that, and he killed an entire school of highly skilled swordsmen ALL AT ONCE.

[Rikuji20]

@geraldswanson Always nice to see people be aware of the differences between Kendo and Kenjutsu. It is a pity that legitimate Kenjustsu schools are so difficult to find in the USA. Then again, perhaps it is better to keep such an art in its native land

[Ryokaze13]

At 0:15 man that would be a quick kill if had been real swords.

[SWolf15]

This is completely different from Hyoho Niten Ichi ryu, the real art of Shinmen Musashi Fujiwara no Kami.

This is kendo. Hyoho Niten Ichi ryu is kenjutsu.

Some kendo club doesn't just "inherit" a kenjutsu transmission.

[umiomamoru]

カッコ良くできてますね～（^^）

[Hauptmann1944]

　コメントありがとうございます！　現場に滞在していたのは１時間ほどでしたが、兵道審査会（昇段試­験）の緊張感は凄かったです。