People & Power - Obama's Carbon plan - 3 Feb 09

[AtlasObjectivist]

Global Warming + Obama + Gore + Goldman Sachs + CCX = FRAUD on a level never seen in all of history.

Cap & Trade is what Global Warming is about. A massive transfer of wealth. Once this gets out the American people will take to the streets. Obama will be impeached.

[skeeleraar]

Global warming has been proven. for the sceptics here, do ur homework and check some genuine reports from measurment stations. Be it the carbon trading plan, or forced regulations or whatever, something has to be done. One "normal" year, doesnt disprove gw, it just gives ur scared asses another chance to think ur doing oke.

[MasterNemesis102]

Global warming is far from proven, it's a complex science. We've seen trends, but we don't know if it's natural, caused by humans, or by some outside force.

[ArchNME]

It won't technically be proven till it gets terrible. The overwhelming majority of the evidence seems to indicate that it's going to. It's like playing Russian roulette with 5 in the chamber at this point if we do nothing. For what anyway? So some companies can be a tiny bit more profitable. What do we stand to lose anyway? Let those guys go work for a nuclear or solar company. Fossils fuels are finite anyway so we need to develop other stuff at some point. Why not now?

[MasterNemesis102]

Or we do the wrong thing, and screw something else up.

[ArchNME]

umm... you think alternative energy is going to screw something else up? How? What are the potential dangerous of solar or wind? Even if we went with nuclear another Chernobyl wouldn't destroy the world or anything on the scale of global warming. Yeah honestly, what are you even referring to?

[Futuregohan14]

I really don't understand how skeeleraar and others here are so certain about man-made global warming. CO2 and temperature? There is no correlation between the two, at least not in the last 600 million years. We had a warm period during medieval times when CO2 levels were much higher than they are now. Anarctic ice is growing on 3 sides of the continent. That, and there's ample evidence that Methane is a more dangerous greenhouse gas(yet wedon't even focus on it). I don't get it.

[skeeleraar]

During this medieval period, co2 lvls were nowhere near as high as they are today. There have been researches that measured CO2-temperature-correlation over a period off 800.000 years. The trend shows us that as CO2 lvls rise, temperature rises. Give or take: CO2 lvls fluctuated between 100 and 300ppm, and temperature differences where around 6-7C. Bare in mind that these rises in CO2 occured over 1000s off years time.

[skeeleraar]

Since the start off the industrialisation, CO2 lvls rose to almost 400pp, 35% higher than the alltime record...

The single greatest source off CO2 in nature are volcanoes. This is the CO2 that ended the 4 major ice ages. CO2 emitted by humans is currently nearly 150 times of that emitted by vulcanoes........ And this was over 100.000s of years...

[Futuregohan14]

skeeleraar, your research is incorrect. CO2 does not bring about temperature rises-temperatures have been shown to increase BEFORE CO2 levels rise. CO2 does not lead temperature changes, it follows them, sometimes by tens of thousands of years. In addition, graphs measuring the relationship over a 600 million year eriod of time show no corellation. Your vague 800,000 year period reference does not refute that.

[Futuregohan14]

Your info on volcanoes is simply wrong. Volcanoes emit about 2.3% the amount of CO2 that we do yearly. Volcanoes emit what humans emit every 43 years. They have been at it for 5 billion years, skeeleraar. We have done it for 150. Your notion that we have managed to emit more than volcanoes have even over a period of "100,000s" of years is simply false.

[skeeleraar]

typo, sorry... 100.000s of years was to say that co2, mainly from volcanoes saved up in atmosphere, getting to lvls that ended the ice ages.

[Futuregohan14]

"During this medieval period, co2 lvls were nowhere near as high as they are today". Even if that were true, a crucial point remains: temperature rise occured with no correlation to CO2 levels.

[skeeleraar]

co2 lvls did rise before the warm period...... just not to the lvl were at today....

every source i read states that there clearly is a correlation between rising co2 lvls and rising temperature.

I am aware that there are other natural causes for rises in temperature. But to just ignore the fact that we are changing earths atmosphere for the worst and then assuming that global warming is caused by something entirely different is just silly imo...

[Futuregohan14]

All I'm saying is that there are many very valid questions to be asked, some of which I've brought up here. What I am saying is that there is far too much emphasis put on CO2 and humans in general, and I am seeing valid contradictions to claims made by the likes of Al Gore and Hansen, among others. I'm also seeing a lot of flat out lies(Polar bears in danger? Actually not true. Antarctic melting? Its expanding!). We're not getting the whole truth out of the pro-carbon plan crowd.

[Futuregohan14]

And I think that it is far, far more foolish to run ramshackle into these massive energy plans that could have dire effects on our economy without the whole truth, and without reasoned discussion. The fact that the pro-carbon crowd insists that the situation is "settled", despite the fact that there are still so many very valid questions worries me much more. This combined with the flat out lies just leads me to doubt the validity of this plan and the whole green movement.

[sec0f111]

those two carbon-trading clowns got destroyed. i love all the crazy comments on here.

[DarkerOfTheMind]

In short fuck the carbon tax.

[rawfodog75]

Why didn't you fools mention that the oceans emit far more CO2, that plants breathe, than all human emissions.

[rawfodog75]

This is the worse reporting ever!!!

1st. Bush was not President in 1997.

2nd. People didn't lose homes due to the free market, it was government's interference with forcing banks to make loans to people who could not afford the home.

3rd. You step outside lately, there is no global warming, your premise is wrong to begin with. Also, go ask NASA about the global temperature in the past 7 years.

I bet you won't ask, because you will learn the truth and you don't want to spread that around.

[cyalaterthan]

I fucking hate Obama guess we agree on something after all

[cyalaterthan]

I have no religion camel jocky

[cyalaterthan]

better than a cock sucking towel head, thats what the towels are for cum rags

[RatRaceAce]

Wow! So diametrically opposed views. What's a man to think? Personally I don't trust stock exchanges to decide anything sensible or worthwhile. Stock markets are propelled by greedy people seeking to make a quick buck by any means. These would gladly invest in an infant sex brothel if they thought it would get them profits. If they found a way to make money by INCREASING carbon dioxide output, they'd do that too. This idea, while idealistic, is full of loopholes that WILL be taken advantage of.

[d3adp001]

yes one more step toward taxing the air you breathe, if they can tax carbon dioxide in cars we are only one step from being able to tax the carbon dioxide we exhale.

[FATBOITHEREAL]

this is insane how can u charge someone for air global warming is not even proven the owner of the weather channek even sais it is a fraud if someone put on the news that the sky is falling all u idiots would believe it wake up the govt. lies even if we do slow down carbon which we breath wat about china think about it china has billions of poeple they r not going to do anything this is a giant con for controll. first it is watter then it is air wat next are they going to charge us for breathing

[Nephilim145]

read a books called the first global revolution and limits to growth both written by the club of rome to understand why this is going on. Its all part of the plan to bring the world under a global government. That is admitted.

[FATBOITHEREAL]

global warming is a con to tax u wake up obama is a pupet the pres is a puppet

[neotoy]

The market can't even save itself.

[xXTheHunterX360Xx]

I'm still netural on my opinion on Obama I'll give him until June to wow me.

[cyalaterthan]

we gotta kill all the towel heads send them to slaughter, stick em in a camp and let them have bum sex just the way they likes it

[cyalaterthan]

Obama is a tool your an idiot

[R3dp055um]

Note that Dr Patrick Bond, (grey jacket, blue shirt, beach-and-hotels background), is an academic. The other two are executives of carbon-trading firms or exchanges.

This means they have a vested financial interest in this concept, and therefore nothing they say is to be trusted. They will say whatever they think will make them the most money.

[R3dp055um]

Dr Richard Sandor would be a far more credible speaker if he would learn to stop wagging his head around so much. It makes him seem silly.

This is why you prepare for interviews by practicing on-camera and then watching your own performance.

[WKaliber1]

Obama is a God

[jax1492]

obama ftw

[TheParadigmShift]

Brrr!

Global cooling has the world chilly!

Now I know why it's not called "global warming" anymore! Common... is the media still trying to push this wacky theory while the world freezes? You're losing what little credibility you still have

[pauline404]

in part of the world (northern hemisphere) we are on the brink of an ice-age. there are different reasons but the most important is the stop of the Gulf Stream. The rest of the globe will continue to heat up.

[TheParadigmShift]

Google "South Africa gets snow for first time in 25 years"

[pauline404]

thx a lot. fits into the theory.

[wonderwendy1968]

I don't trust anything Monsanto is involved in.

[SubmarinerAndroid]

Do we have "markets" for other crimes?

Is it right, or democratic, or good for society or the earth, to let companies pollute if they can pay for the privilege? Or to let other serious crimes be committed by those who can afford a "permit"?

[erunacycle]

Did you here that guy Patrick Bond say "countries like Africa"?

[jellyblocked]

what value can you put on Pollution ? Turning it into a tradable commodity ...what an uterly dum Founded idea . How can you justify polluting the world and then make a market from it - The world is our mother would you treat you mum like we treat the world . This again is about people making money at the cost of killing the world of in the end . We humans are dumb creatures . Wake up

[erunacycle]

Some industries reduce emissions while others create them and expenses vary regionally. A US/EU company could have more impact by funding pollution controls in manufacturing plants in China or India which are at much lower pollution standards. You would get a lot more bang for your buck. It might also be more cost effective to fund a wind farm than to increase pollution standards in a particular industry. Its a way to find the most effective use of resources.