Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
Catholic Religion = Pagan ----> This stupid religion have deceit so many people including my own parents. I hope it disappear. I am a genuine Christian hehe and proud to be! It's time that we exposed this false religion, Amen!
I really find it funny that the host and guest, Dr. Martin, in this video have a problem with papal authority but Ankerberg in every sing one of the videos asks Dr. Martin: "Why is this repugnant to protestants?" Wait a minute. Is Dr. Martin pretending to have the authority to speak on behalf of all protestants? Hmmm that sounds like papal authority on a protestant level.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "You do Know that EVERYTHING You Just Said is Not In response To What I Said, If you Plan On Replying Then At least Reply To My Statements With Logical FACTS, Rather Then Puns And Sarcasm. And Last I do Agree That MOST. . .Once Again MOST Christians Pray At The Brink Of death However How Is to Say That People From All sorts Of Different Religions Do The Same hm?
@PrinceRocky561 YOU;RE STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION. NO WONDER YOU DONT GET IT. I NEVER SAID BAPTISM SAVES. IT WIPES OUT ORIGINAL SIN. AND GIVES NEW LIFE AS IT CONFIRMS US AS CHILDREN OF GOD. WHAT WE DO THE REST OF OUR LIVES IS UP TO US. WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT." Can you show me where someone was offered Grace, yet rejected it? Can Grace be rejected? If God is showing "favor", which is what Grace is, can that be rejected? Also, I am still wondering where scripture tells us, that baptism wipes out original sin? This coming from someone who believes Mary was without sin?
Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
catholicism is pure trash, Jesus Spoke of him being Through HIM the ONLY way To Be cleansed from sin. That Already Is going AGINST The Word Of God. The Lord Speaks Of Separated Our Sin By The Blood Of The Lamb (Might You Be Saved) as Far as East From WEST. Why must You Suffer EVEN More To Go Into Heaven? Non Sense. Also catholics Believe That You Go To Hell "Forever". What LOVING LIVING GOD Does That!? Purgatory Is MADE UP and NOT In Scripture.
@PrinceRocky561 I guess we can sin all we want our whole lives then conviniently repent on our deathbed? typical non Catholic ignorance. Carry the cross? nah I'll just repent moments before I die. Ahh, here's an Idea, what if I take a bullet in the head or get hit by a bus and had no time to repent. Well I guess I'm screwed right? Baptism cleanses inherited sin , which came from Adam and eve. It doesnt cleanse sins we freely commit. All sin is freely committed by the way. Wake up morons!
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "I guess we can sin all we want our whole lives then conviniently repent on our deathbed? typical non Catholic ignorance." this is the problem with people like you. You think the things you do, will make God save you! Nevermind about what scripture says, about being born again, huh?
"Baptism cleanses inherited sin" Oh really? I thought Christ cleanses us from sin? But you dont know this because Rome doesnt teach it.
@Haukman66 Jesus' died for our sins and our redemption. We still have free will to sin. You think you are still in grace sin after sin? Gee must be nice. Baptism wipes out original sin. The sin we inherited fro Adam and Eve. After Baptism we are confirmed as children of God. Thats just the begining. you seem to think grace is automatic. You also think we are worthy. Only Jesus' was worthy, yet he was Baptized himself.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Baptism wipes out original sin. " Another dogma of the RCC. Baptism does not save. Christ saves. He paid the price, for sin for all who would believe in Him by faith. Where is it said, that baptism wipes out "original sin"?
"You also think we are worthy." No, actually I dont. No man is.
@Haukman66 I didnt say it saves, it renews. This exactly why you dont understand. Not everyone has faith so does that mean everyone is saved anyway? Nope. Faith is not enough, we have to live by that faith. You're ignoring where the bible says that you shalll now him buy the fruits he bears Bearing fruits is working at it not automatic. An apple tree cannot bear apples if it doesnt get water and sunlight etc. IT TAKES WORK.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Not everyone has faith so does that mean everyone is saved anyway?" Nope, they go to hell.
"Faith is not enough, we have to live by that faith" Yep, faith shows itself by works. If you have not works, it shows your faith is false. But your RCC claims that we are saved by faith AND works, whereas the bible states, that we are saved, by faith APART from works.
@Haukman66 YOU;RE STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION. NO WONDER YOU DONT GET IT. I NEVER SAID BAPTISM SAVES. IT WIPES OUT ORIGINAL SIN. AND GIVES NEW LIFE AS IT CONFIRMS US AS CHILDREN OF GOD. WHAT WE DO THE REST OF OUR LIVES IS UP TO US. WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT
@ViciousWayz Isnt anybody paying attention? Where did I say You need to be baptized to get to Heaven? Forget it, Never mind. No wonder the religions that broke away are screwed! Do your homework. I dont have time here to teach Cathechism.
@ViciousWayz Because all Christian denominations who branched off from Jesus' teachings ( what became Catholisicm) still dont understand scripture and end up drawing their own conclusion based on individual phrases (from scripture) and not from the entire context. Its frustrating because even though I give answers, you guys dont pay attention and assume what is not even there! No wonder scattered denominations are often confused!
@PrinceRocky561 Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
beware youtube user megazordman2 who been posts deragatory comments about christianity on videos. Please go to his channel youtube dot com slash megazordman2 and report him 100 times a day if necassary until youtube bans him. Stop letting these people get away with it.
whyd christians STEAL and COPY catholics bible aswell as steal the jews old testament. WHO told them to make there OWN bible . and keep making new VERSIONS
@Haukman66 "The Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth." 1 Timothy 3:15. There are more verses also if you are interested. Do you know why we have the Apocrypha? Search YouTube for: "Why do Catholics have 7 more books in their bible." Catholics follow Apostolic Tradition + Magisterium + Bible. Please search YouTube for: "Catholic Basics 3 of 69." It explains everything we believe in very clearly.
@Cherubaby I know what you believe. As for 1Timothy, this verse does not say, that the "church" as you say, (the roman church) is the pillar of truth. All believers, are "Pillars" per Gal. 2:9. They are to go and spread the gospel. The church, is all believers. And of course the church(believers who make up the body) should be a pillar of truth. That is what Paul was talking about. Your tradition, is wrong ,anti biblical, and your magisterium, has been full of heretics. Whats left? BIBLE
@Haukman66 We are Temples of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus Christ also established a visible CHURCH on earth with real leaders. Our Tradition is based upon what the Apostles preached for many years before they wrote it down - and not absolutely everything was written down - just like the Oral Law of the Jews. The Church is lead by the Holy Spirit - Christ PROMISED the Gates of Hell would NOT prevail against it. Either He spoke the Truth or He is a Liar. Your Choice.
@Cherubaby For one, Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church. Something you deny. Your dogma, that Peter was the first pope, is bunk. Your tradition, is doctored history. Plain and simple. Of course you take what your rcc says, as legitimate. I do not. I take what scripture says, over anything. Yes, Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail against the church, that HE was going to build. NOT Peter. Sorry.
@Haukman66 OK then, so where did Jesus build His Church then? We do NOT deny that Jesus is the Cornerstone. Who told you this? Jesus said: You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church. I'm sure you've heard of that before.
@Cherubaby You think Jesus was building a "literal" church? You need to learn to read the bible. Yes, I am familiar with the verse you are referring to. It had nothing to do with Peter. It was play on words. I assume you were gonna tell me, that Jesus was building the church on Peter? And that he was the first pope? Please show me where the term pope is in scripture? Why did Paul talk about all the offices in the church, Elders, Deacons, and so forth, but never the pope?
@Haukman66 The word Pope comes from Papa which is Italian for "father." Peter was given the "Keys of the Kingdom", he was the head or father of the first Christian Congregation or Church. Yes Jesus was building a LITERAL Church. Didn't Paul write to the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Colosse, Phillipi, and Thessalonika? Didn't Jesus speak about the Churches in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea in Revelation? Were they not literal Churches?
@Cherubaby Well Matthew 23:9, which tells us to call NO MAN father, is in direct opposition to that !! Do you people ever read the bible? Peter is NOT the head of anything. There is nothing that says that in scripture. Only catholic dogma. Yes Paul wrote to different churches, which proves what you are saying to be false. The church, are all believers, not a building, or denomination.(Acts 2:47)
@Haukman66 YOU SAID Jesus did not set up a LITERAL Church. I just showed you that there were LITERAL CHURCHES that were addressed in the Bible. So how does this prove that what I said was FALSE? You are not making any sense! It says in the Bible that PETER WAS GIVEN THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM. That PROVES he was the HEAD of the Christian Congregation because NO ONE ELSE was given the Keys. How can you dispute that fact? cont --
@Cherubaby I said, Jesus did not set up a literal CHURCH BUILDING/DENOMINATION as you say he did. The church is the believers. Peter was given keys, the other disciples were given keys. whats your point? He was head of nothing!
@Haukman66 Do you know what you are talking about? Show me from the Bible where it says that OTHER Disciples were given Keys, apart from Peter? Why did Jesus tell PETER to feed His Sheep in John 21:15-17? Why did Jesus tell PETER to strengthen the other Disciples in Luke 22:31-32? Why is PETER always named FIRST in ALL listings of the Apostles? See Matthew 10:2 as one example. cont --
@Haukman66 cont -- In Acts 4:1-13, Peter is regarded by the Jews as the LEADER and spokesman of Christianity. In Mark 16:7 Peter is specified by an Angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles. In Acts 11:5-17, Peter instructs the other Apostles on the catholicity (universality) of the Church. And I can give you many more verses which establish the Primacy of Peter! So can you say Peter was the head of NOTHING?
@Cherubaby LOLOLOL. You are using Acts 4:1-13 as proof Peter was the leader? It says nothing in the text of that !! Peter was not the cornerstone!! Please explain what you are getting at with this verse.
@Haukman66 I said in Acts 4:1-13, Peter is regarded by the Jews as the leader and spokesman of Christianity. Peter is talking about Jesus and representing "Christianity" to the Jewish leaders.
@Cherubaby Please show the specific verse, that states "Peter is the leader and spokesman". Only thing I see is verse 13 that states, both Peter and John, they were marvelled by them.
@Haukman66 2 cont -- You haven't finished discussing the Church and you are already jumping onto another topic about the word "father." The meaning of that verse is "no earthly father must come BEFORE your Heavenly Father." This is shown in Matthew 10:37, when Jesus said: "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." That doesn't mean you can't call anyone else father! Abraham was called "father" 7 times in Romans 4:1-18. cont --
@Cherubaby You are cracking me up. I wasnt talking about a Father or Mother. That is the context of Matt. 10:37. The verse I mentioned, was talking about titles of men. That is exactly what the catholic church does, by making your pope, the "vicar" of Christ. Which is idolatry in the first rank!!
@Haukman66 Where does it say that calling the Pope "father" is idolatry? Idolatry is when you WORSHIP someone as GOD. Why did the Jews call their Priests FATHER? Judges 17:10, "Stay with me, Micha said to him. Be Father and Priest to me..." Judges 18:19, "Come with us and be our Father and Priest. Calling someone "father" is not worshipping them!
@Cherubaby My point is, that nowhere in scripture, is there said, to have someone be a "vicar" of Christ on earth. That is the context of Matt. 23. In Matthew 23, he was speaking to the multitudes and his disciples (verse 1). He was talking about how the scribes and Pharisees had seated themselves in "The chair of Moses," which was a position of authority within the Jewish system at the time of the Pharisees. But Jesus was condemning them. (cont)
@Haukman66 Jesus was condemning the Pharisees immoral behaviour, not their Position of Authority. SOMEONE has to LEAD the Church or else there will be Chaos! Look at how many Protestant denominations there are. About 30,000, right? And they ALL disagree on Scripture! Are you going to tell me that this is what GOD wants - that everyone interprets Scripture for themselves and ends up disagreeing with everyone else? Where is the unity in this?
@Cherubaby "SOMEONE has to LEAD the Church or else there will be Chaos! " Spoken like a true catholic!! Sounds just like the RCC when they refused to have the bible in the hands of the "common folk". Isnt that back when they read the mass in latin, and noone even knew what was being said? Ridiculous!! Dont start with denominations. Good grief. Just look at your own denomination. Priests and little boys? And the Pope wouldnt even condemn them? Or what about the Pope kissing the koran?
@Haukman66 I am here to talk about the Official TEACHINGS of the Roman Catholic Church, not individual people or their Sins. Sinners are everywhere, inside and outside of the Church. Protestants have peophiles too, but I am here only going to discuss DOGMA. If you have a serious question, I would be most happy to discuss it with you.
@Cherubaby My point in bringing up the priests, being pedophiles, is you brought up the different denominations. As if that has anything to do with anything. The question is, are they following scripture? And the fact your "vicar" would not even own up to the fact, that it was happening. This is YOUR spokesman for Christ! There is so many things wrong with your doctrine, but you, just like the mormons, and the JW's are so blinded, you cant see it. Just like scripture says.
@Haukman66 There have been good Popes and not so good Popes. Pope Benedict XIV is a good Pope. We are all blinded by what we believe. I believe I have the Truth in the Roman Catholic Church. I believe she was the FIRST Church, and Jesus promised to be with His Church until the End of Time. People only see the bad things but the Church has done a lot of good also. Schools, Hospitals, Missions, feeding the poor, caring for the dying, etc. Just keep on open mind.
@Cherubaby All this is filthy rags in the sight of God. (Isaiah 64:6) Yes, it is good in the sight of man. But without the gospel of Christ, it is nothing! Feeding the poor, to send them to hell with their bellys full. Yeah, that makes sense.
@Haukman66 The Gospel is Jesus' Teachings -- Love the Lord your GOD with all your Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength, and Love one another as I have loved you.
@Haukman66 Latin was the established Literary Language of that Time. Latin was used as the language of "international communication", Scholarship, Theology and Science, until well into the 18th Century, when it began to be replaced by vernacular languages. Everything that was written during the Dark & Middle Ages and Renaissance, including secular books, was written in Latin. Everyone who was literate could read Latin. Those who could not read Latin, could NOT read, period.
@Cherubaby This response is utter nonsense. What is the point, to speak the mass in a language that NO ONE can understand? Why do you think the apostles spoke in tongues in Acts? So that the people could all understand in their own language! Please!! Gimme a break with this. Many died and went to hell, because rome was doing this. Utterly disgusting.
@Haukman66 Educated people DID understand Latin in those days! Only those people who could not read and write did not understand Latin, because they didn't go to School. Remember also 90% of the population in those days were Farmers, so they didn't see a need to learn how to read if they worked on the land all day. When they went to Church they would hear the Homily of the Priest and that was their Bible teaching.
@Cherubaby Soooo, just what I suspected...you dont even know the gospel. This is how far away, the roman catholic church has strayed. How do you even know if you are saved?
@Haukman66 Remember back in the Middle Ages, going to School was not compulsory as it is today. People worked hard on the land just to make enough to survive. Children were expected to help their parents farm the land, and only the children of Kings, Princes, and Nobles, were given a formal education. Sometimes if a child showed special talent, he would be sent to a Monastery to be taught, and if he was very lucky, they would send him off to a University.
@Cherubaby Excuses. What rome did, was kept the scriptures from the common folk, that way, they could control the masses. Go ahead and deny it. Selling indulgences, is from the pit of hell. You cant buy your way to heaven, for yourself, or for anyone else. I am still waiting to hear, what the gospel is. If you cant tell me, it will show, you are lost.
@Haukman66 Please go and study some History. Honestly, most people at that time could NOT read. That is the Truth. The Gospel is the Good News that Jesus came to Die for our Sins, that we are Saved by His Grace, and that we have Eternal Life by believing in Him and loving Him.
@Cherubaby Oh, so you had to go look that up? So, if we are saved by grace, then what is this "sacraments" stuff? Do you know what Grace is? Didnt rome, pronounce "anathema" to the doctrine of justification by faith alone?
@Haukman66 Sacraments are channels of Divine Grace given by the Church to STRENGTHEN us Spiritually. For example, when we receive Holy Communion, we are strengthened Spiritually. Grace is Divine Favour. Yes an Anathema is upon all who are outside of the Roman Catholic Faith and contradict her teachings.
@Cherubaby yeah, I find it funny, that they would put an "anathema" on what scripture clearly teaches. And there is nothing in scripture, that says one must be a "roman catholic" to be saved. Nope. Not one. Nowhere does it say, anyone must believe that Mary was assumed to heaven. Why? Because scripture does not teach such nonsense. Nowhere, does scripture mention "sacraments" are a requirement. Nowhere!!!
@Haukman66 Sacraments are extra "blessings." If you want to be a member of a particular Church then you must believe what they do. What is the point of coming together if everyone believes differently? The Bible says: "There is ONE Lord, ONE Faith, ONE Baptism." Ephesians 4:5. Like I said in the beginning we believe Apostolic Tradition + Magisterium + Bible = ALL Truth.
@Cherubaby No you dont. You believe in the papacy. You dont believe scripture. If you did, you would believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone. Not of works or anything else. There is no such thing as indulgences. There is no such thing as purgatory. People dont go there, to work off sins! That is blasphemy. Sacraments, are doing things, in order gain favor with God. That is anti biblical.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Do you even know what grace is?" The question is, do YOU? I dont belong to a "works" based religion. I am saved by Grace, through faith, not works! And your name calling, shows an unregenerated heart. Better go get re-bapitized again.
@Haukman66 Baptism is a one time thing. the rest is up to us. We must maintain that grace. We have to work at it. You no nothing about grace, obviously.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Baptism is a one time thing. the rest is up to us. We must maintain that grace." Oh really? Where does scripture say, "we must maintain grace"? How is that even possible? Grace is a free gift from God! We dont keep it ourselves!
@Haukman66 Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 apparently, you dont even know your own church teaching. "Once a person has 'earned' an indulgence, he or she can apply it either personally(thereby reducing his or her own temporal punishment for sins committed), or can by prayer apply it to the account of a dead loved one believed to be in purgatory. So indulgences can benefit both oneself and ones loved ones."- Catechism of the Catholic church pg. 411. Just a prayer huh?
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 Once a person has "earned" an indulgence, he or she can apply it, reducing temporal punishment for sins committed. That is a "works" based system, which the bible condemns! Jesus paid for ALL SINS.
@Haukman66 I guess we can relax and kick back and do whatever we please. It doesnt matter we are all saved. Hitler must loving heavenly life right now, why not? his works didnt matter , he was saved!
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "I guess we can relax and kick back and do whatever we please. It doesnt matter we are all saved. " Another misguided comment. Do you even read the bible? Just because someone says "Im saved" does not make them saved! A born again child of God, will have a change in his behaviour. Those who still live in rebellion, are showing they are not born again.
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 How to DEBUNK the CATHOLIC CHURCH on PURGATORY
Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
@Cherubaby because he said that they "tie up heavy loads and laid them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them," (Matthew 23:4). In verse 8, Jesus says not to call anyone Rabbi (which means teacher). Jesus was saying that the true authority lies not with men, but with God. In the context of the religious leaders of Israel and calling someone "father," Jesus was saying not to give them the reverence and honor which belong to God. That is what I am trying to say.
@Haukman66 We do NOT give to the Pope the reverence and honour which belongs to GOD. No. We give the Pope the honour and reverence due to him as a Man of GOD, the same as if Peter or one of the Apostles was amongst us today. To give him the reverence and honour due to GOD would mean we have to WORSHIP him, and nobody "worships" the Pope.
@Haukman66 3 cont -- Saint Paul calls himself "father" to the Christians many times! What does 1 John 2:13 say? Do a search for the word "father" and see how many times people are called "father"! So if the Disciples called other people "father" - which is what they did - they obviously Jesus meant "put no earthly father BEFORE your Heavenly Father" which is the explanation I gave you. Make sense?
@sgal88 God's mercy is carried out through the cross, not punishing a person further by burning them for purifying. By grace we are saved. Purgatory was another false pagan doctrine the Catholics brought in for the purpose of more money.
@FAITHandLOGIC Jesus died on the cross. But it did not mean that we are not to be punished for any sins that have not been resolved here in Earth. If we take your logic, then repented murderer's and thieves should not be put in jail but given a slap on the hands. But that is not how we do things for justice must be served and just like a person who dies repented after having done horrid crimes, so to must he be purged in the fires of purgatory to be finally united with God.
@sgal88 If we take your logic, there is no purpose for Christ dying on the cross. He died for our sins therefore we are made pure through Him, not a fiery torment. If we need to have our sins purged away, then why have Christ die in the first place?
@FAITHandLOGIC Your logic actually falls flat. Scripture tells us to forgive and yet we want justice as we forgave. God is the same manner with us. If we take it from your erroneous perspective, we should forgive and not let murderers, rapist, thieves stay in jail to pay for their crimes.
@sgal88 The problem here is that you have no idea what scripture says, rather you go by the Catechism and the antichrist system that is the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, you should forgive those who harm you as God forgives you. That doesn't mean that the system of government does not punish a murderer for his crimes. It is not you who conducts the punishment. As scripture says, we must give mercy if we expect to receive it. Christ took the punishment so we don't have to. There is no purgatory.
@FAITHandLOGIC You yourself admit that justice demands one to repay for the crime. You insult God by insinuating that he has no justice. Yes, he is merciful, but he is also Just. You think that a Church that has been around 2K years and understood Scripture in the first few centuries is wrong? in comparison to you with x amount of wisdom. Garbage!
@sgal88 You simply dont understand. Our sins were punished at calvary! Abraham believed, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Those who never repent, pay for their own sins! Jesus said, "It is finished". The debt we owe God, was reconciled! Again, you do not understand the gospel.
@Haukman66 "It is finished" meant that he did what he was suppose to do to bring us back to God. Justice is still necessary, which you, Protestant eliminate from your theology. Our Blessed Lord tells us to "be perfect," yet the person who is forgiven has yet to reach perfection, just entered the state of grace to begin the perfecting process.
@sgal88 Justice was done at the cross my friend! Christ is our Proptiation! You do know what that word means dont you? Where in scripture is anyone perfect? Please show me, I would love to see it. Paul states emphatically, "and be found in him, NOT HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN THAT COMES FROM THE LAW, BUT THAT WHICH COMES THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST"!. According to you, Jesus' work was not enough!
@Haukman66 Christ Himself tells us to be perfect like Our Heavenly Father is. If you are not perfect, you don't enter Heaven period. Second, it was a propitiation to bring us back to God, but it does not mean that we automatically gain Heaven without working at it.
@sgal88 Noone can be perfect. Only by the righteousness of Christ. We dont trust our own righteousness. Why do you think Jesus condemned the pharisees? They did the exact thing you are pushing. Telling someone to be perfect, means to strive for that. God told his people to keep his commandments in the OT, but NOONE could. That is why Christ came! For there is no salvation in the works of the law.
@Haukman66 Yes, the satisfaction of God's wrath but it does not mean that your guilt is acquitted. If so, then there would be no point of asking for forgiveness, now would there? Jesus Christ is the one who you have an issue with. He is the one who is saying to be perfect. You seem to think that to be perfect is to be prideful as the Pharisees. Do you have the idea why they were hypocrites? They were hypocrites because they knew the law but did not follow it.
@sgal88 I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong. If the wrath of God was satisfied, what else would there be left? Our debt is paid! Repentance, is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of it. Because of what God has done, the Born again believer will repent.
And again, you have no understanding. The pharisees, followed the law to a tee!! Yet they were dead inside. Paul tells us, the law could not save! Our righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees. We need Christs righteousness.
@Haukman66 If our righteous must exceed that of the Pharisees than that must mean we must become better or in other words, perfected through which grace is bestowed upon us. The law can not save us talks about the law of circumcision and what not, but we must abide by the law, such as not not to fornicate, not to rob and what not. The law of the Old Covenant does not save but the new one does. Your exegesis is off like all Protestants.
@sgal88 Have you not read what I have posted? Obviously not. We, as christians, have the righteousness of Christ(perfect righteousness) credited to our account! Maybe watch this video again! Christ has perfected us! We have been saved by Grace(unmerited favor) through faith, NOT OF WORKS! You have no biblical support for your belief. Only popes.
@Haukman66 That is not true at all. He must become perfect but just because Christ has forgiven our sins does not mean we are made perfect. He are then in the state of grace. We must have works to enter Heaven which come through grace, which you obviously are not understanding the priest here. Your heresy would lead many to hell for a misconstrued understanding of God. Since the Old Testament, people had to do penance for the evil they did. The need for penance did not all of a sudden stop.
@sgal88 It is sad, you dont even know what the gospel is. You have not even provided one verse here to prove your dogma. I shows, you trust the church, and not Christ. You cannot show me one verse that says we "must be perfect, to go to heaven". The people in the old testament, were not saved(gone to heaven) because they obeyed the commandments! They were saved by grace! Otherwise, the JW's and Mormons will go to heaven as well. They keep the commandments. Better than most!
Scripture tells us that, w/o holiness, we cannot see the Lord (Heb 12:14). Nor can nothing unclean enter Heaven (Rev 21:27). The word "unclean" in Greek, koinon) refers to a spiritual corruption that must be cleansed before we can enter into God's presence. When we commit sin, it is like plunging a nail through a wood. These sins leave imperfection in our lives. When the nail is removed, it is the sin being forgiven, but then there is the hole that need repairing. Purgatory helps to smooth it.
@sgal88 "Purgatory helps to smooth it." You summed up your dogma, in just a few words here! Christs sacrafice, according to you and rome, was not enough!
@Haukman66 That is what penance is and purgatory purges the evil what one has done. Scripture clearly makes references of it. You just want to blind yourself with your man made beliefs which have absoultely no backing of Church Fathers. You take your beliefs from a sinful man, Luther.
@sgal88 Purgatory, is not in the bible even once. The name, OR the concept. Period. Your dogma, was given to you by rome, and I have shown you that. Even the early church fathers didnt believe in it! Yep, Luther was a sinful man, just like the rest of humanity.
@Haukman66 The Eastern "Orthodox" and Catholics believe in praying for the dead. This belief of yours is foreign and only can be traced back to Luther. You accuse Rome of man made tradition yet yours is from Luther. While our Founder is Jesus Christ, your founder is a sinful man who thought himself above God, literally.
@sgal88 Once again, you appeal to your "orthodox" and "catholics" for your belief. There is nothing of this in scripture. Please, come with the bible, not your apostate religion.
@sgal88 Still no scripture huh? Do you own a bible? Most catholics do not, dont go to church with one either. I should know, I grew up there. I read the bible, and get understanding from the Holy Spirit. I read commentaries as well. But if they dont line up with what scripture clearly says, it is to be rejected. You however, just take blindly what the vatican tells you. Scripture please.
@Haukman66 LOOOOOL. Straw man. How many people have said that they have been guided by the Holy Ghost? Erm..I know, 30K denominations. Your argument doesn't do you justice but rather injustice. You also ignored my previous question. To whom will you pay attention to have an accurate interpretation of the Constitution? This sitting Congress and President OOOOOOR the Founding Fathers?
@sgal88 Umm..did I not say, that if it does not line up with scripture I would disregard it? Pay attention. Still no scripture. Because you cant argue from scripture. You dont know the scriptures.
You bringing up the constitution, has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. It was written my sinful men. Scripture, was written by God. Maybe you didnt know that.
@Haukman66 First of all, Scripture is the INSPIRED Word of God, not written by God Himself, written by sinful man. Scripture was compiled by sinful man, who were ironically Catholic, inpsired by the Holy Ghost. Second, the Constitution has nothing to do with this, but it actually it what has given you your freedoms in comparison to a North Korea. Third, I have given you previously many Scripture verses but you refuse to acknowledge them. GO back and check them for your self.
@sgal88 Scripture is the inspired word, and it is God breathed!! 2Tim. 3:16. Maybe read the the bible right? Yep, it was written by sinful men, that is true. But Gods word, is infallible. It was the Holy Spirit working in them to accomplish his will. Catholic? Where do you get this? LOL. Nope that is not in scripture.
@sgal88 Again, you appealing to the old, "the Trinity is not mentioned in scripture either" argument is ridiculous. So, do you deny the Trinity? I would say you dont. Why? Because its taught!!! That is the difference, your traditions, are not taught in scripture!! You get them from your popes.
@Haukman66 Funny. You do the same thing telling me that it, purgatory, is not found in context, yet the Church has made her decision that it is and even the Eastern Schismatics as well. You appeal to Luther, which you don't seem to understand. You also appeal to your own 40 year understanding against a 2000 year Church who established the Bible as is. Tell me, how do you know that the Bible is suppose to have x amount of books?
@sgal88 I have never appealed to Luther. I have never said anything about anyone. Only used the bible. The bible does not contradict itself. However, your doctrines, would have the apostles and Christ being schizo. That is because your doctrines are "man made". Nuff said.
@Haukman66 That is a lie. You do appeal to Luther because purgatory and praying to the dead was always done. To whom do you appeal to. You lie if you say no one.
@sgal88 LOL. No one but the catholic church believes that. It is not in the scripture. That is the point. Luthers eyes were opened up by actually reading the scriptures. Something the roman catholic church did NOT want anyone doing! You should research your own denomination. They did not want the bible in the hands of the "common folk". I wonder why?
@Haukman66 Another lie. Luther himself could not make up his mind if it was necessary to pray for the dead. He flip flopped. Second, since you do take a page from Luther and even say that his "eyes were opened up," then you should know that he always thought the Mother of God to always be a Virgin and necessary to pray to.
@sgal88 Umm, it is obvious, you have no argument. You keep bringing up Luther, as if I follow him. I am not lutheran. I do not agree with alot of things he taught. So, again, quit bringing him up. He is not relevant to this discussion. You ever gonna bring scripture ? If Luther thought Mary to always be a virgin, then he was wrong. Or do you think that the Holy Spirit came on her and she conceived Jesus' brothers? LOL.
@Haukman66 Your Protestant hail Luther yet only get what was "right" from his teaching. You do technically follow Luther if you want to believe it or not. As for bringing up Scripture, look at the previous comments. I did so many times and you refuse to acknowledge it.
@sgal88 You used one verse, way out of context. So, you gonna bring me scripture, that says, Mary remained a virgin? Cmon, give it to me. Just one verse. One hint, that she remained a virgin. Or how bout, that she was assumed into heaven? Or that she was not a sinner? Cmon, give it your best shot.
@Haukman66 This need that a verse that say she was assumed in Heaven is as pointless as saying that I need to provide one verse of the word Trinity, yet it is taught.
@sgal88 Exactly. You dont have one verse for anything I just said. Yet you blindly believe it, because your popes teach it. Hence the scriptures are true. 2Tim. 4:3-4- For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. So true.
@Haukman66 Actually not at all. There are types within Scripture that can allude to the Virgin Mary's assumption, for example the assumption of Enoch and Elijah. The fact is, even if I tried to educate you, you'd go in a circular argument telling me that if it is not in Scripture it is false. Yet, I appeal to the fact that the words Trinity, redemption are not found in Scripture but in context. Yet, you believe it. Imagine I was a Jehovahs Witness, you'd have the same problem I am having with u.
@sgal88 Your arguments are ridiculous. You add to the text. Which is against scripture, which says, not to go beyond what is already written. 1Cor. 4:6. And to be clear, I never said, "noone was ever taken up to heaven". But I did say, Mary was NEVER taken. Scripture never even hints at it. As a matter of fact, the New Testament only mentions Mary a couple times. Yet you catholics esteem her over Christ! I love your video on your page. "Dedicated to the blessed virgin mary". Idolatry!
@Haukman66 How do you know what was suppose to be in the text if the Bible was not compiled until a few centuries later? Second, there are things called types which can prove the existence of many things. For example, Jesus is the type of Adam, correct? Who is the type of Eve? Third, Mary, in her wisdom, pronounced at the Annunciation that she will blessed among all women for generations to come.
@sgal88 1) How do you know you have the right books? Umm..probably because you believe your popes. 2) Scripture tells us, that ADAM was a "type" of the one to come. So no, thats not correct. Jesus was not a type of
Adam. But we know this because the bible tells us so. Who is the type of Eve? Does scripture tell us? 3) Mary was blessed by God. Your point? I am blessed. Read Luke 11:27-28. Quit exalting someone, that is no better than anyone else!
A type is something that fulfills. So Adam a type of Jesus, yes. Perhaps I incorrectly worded it, but the idea is there. So as Christ is the New Adam, who could be the new Eve? That kind of question can come up and is a good question to actually ask. Second, a mere creature exalted her on self. She is a Virgin because no where in Scripture it actually indicates that she had further children. Read your Scripture correctly. I am pretty sure you had to use a guide to understand Scripture.
@sgal88 The scripture speak of Christ. Not of Mary. So, to even ask, who is the "type" of Eve, is irrelevant. Its just an excuse to exalt Mary. Thats all. Where do you think James came from? Galatians 1:19- But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lords brother. Mark 6:3-Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? Also see Matthew 13:55-56. Um, yep, scripture is clear.
@Haukman66 First of all, to call someone brother does not necessarily mean that they are blood brother. In the original Greek, the words use are 'adelphoi' (brethren) and 'adelphe' (sisters). These words can refer to actual sisters and brothers however they can also be used to describe cousins or relatives or step brothers or close neighbors. For example, Scripture says that Abraham was Lot's brother (Gen 14:14-16), yet we know that Abraham was Lot's uncle. Try again.
@sgal88 Once again, your argumentation is wanting. Gal. 1:19 , Paul calls James, Jesus' brother! Paul, nowhere else, called someone Jesus' brother! The fact that Paul saw, "None of the OTHER apostles except James the Lords brother", is stating emphatically, he was a blood brother! Not just a "spiritual" brother.
Continuation with the other point. We see in Scripture clear proof of what I am saying. In 2 Samuel 6:23-"Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death." Does that mean that Michal started having children after her death???? Heb 1:13, "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" There refers to the Son of God. Does this mean that He will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father?
@sgal88 Nice rabbit trails here. Does scripture say anywhere, that Michal had ANY children? NO. So your point is worthless. Scripture tells us, that Jesus had brothers, and I have shown you this. But you in your ignorance will not see it. Your using Hebrews 1:13 was just ridiculous, and not even worth addressing. LOL.
@Haukman66 Oh my gosh. You truly strawman even further. You know very well what those Scripture verses even are saying yet you want to clearly ignore the facts in how it is used. The use of Hebrews was the same way you are addressing the issue with Mary and Joseph and the word "until." You are obviously coming to the point of intellectual dishonesty.
@sgal88 Matthew 1:25- Joseph knew her not UNTIL she had given birth to a son. Why the word UNTIL? Because the text is stating that he did consumate their marriage, after Jesus was born!
First of all, that part of the consummation is your part. You are adding to what is not there. Second, "firstborn son" is a legal title given to a first-born male child in a Jewish family. You need to know the historicity to interpret Scripture, which you fail to do. Third, the Greek word for 'until' or 'till' does not imply that Joseph and Mary had sex after Jesus. It simply means that they had no relations up to that point, without saying anything about what happened after that point.
@sgal88 Consumation, means to come together as one flesh. This is usually done, by having sex. So, I didnt add anything. It says, they did not have sex, UNTIL she bore Jesus. It they never had sex, there would be no need for the word, UNTIL! LOL.
You need to know your bible. Firstborn, has more meaning than what you give it. David was said to be the "firstborn" in Psalm 89:27. Was he the first born in his family? What about Manassah? Was he the firstborn or not? (Gen.41:50-51, Jer. 31:9)
@Haukman66 You wish. You straw man the point. But let me continue to further prove my point. 1 Tim 4:13-"Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine." Does this mean that they should abandon reading and doctrine after he comes? Obviously not.
Acts 23:1-"And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Does this mean that Paul necesarrily ceased to have a good conscious after that day? Nope!
@sgal88 Funny, you say, I am using strawmans, yet look what you do. 1Tim. 4:13 uses the word, "Until" I come give attendance to reading, exhortation, to doctrine. This is not using the word the same way as Matthew 1. Matthew 1 is using it the same as when you catholics say, "I am giving up beer until lent is over". Obviously, you catholics will continue to get loaded afterwards(after lent). So, the same goes for Matthew 1. Joseph did not know Mary, UNTIL AFTER she bore Jesus. LOL.
@Haukman66 You are so misinterpretation Scripture that you should stop being intellectually dishonest. 1 Tim 4:13 did not mean that they should abandon reading doctrine after he comes. The same with Joseph and Mary and the word until. The same with how you misinterpret brother when it deals with Jesus is the same way you would have read that Abraham and Lot were brother instead of uncle and nephew.
@sgal88 Also, you do realize, the word "Until" is a translation. The word, translated as "Until" is achri achris in the greek. And this could mean, " UP TILL" . Meaning, Up till this time. So, your argument is falling apart. Sorry.
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How to DEBUNK the CATHOLIC CHURCH on PURGATORY
Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
abukid 1 week ago
Catholic Religion = Pagan ----> This stupid religion have deceit so many people including my own parents. I hope it disappear. I am a genuine Christian hehe and proud to be! It's time that we exposed this false religion, Amen!
007Yankie 1 week ago
I really find it funny that the host and guest, Dr. Martin, in this video have a problem with papal authority but Ankerberg in every sing one of the videos asks Dr. Martin: "Why is this repugnant to protestants?" Wait a minute. Is Dr. Martin pretending to have the authority to speak on behalf of all protestants? Hmmm that sounds like papal authority on a protestant level.
billyslo87 1 month ago
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "You do Know that EVERYTHING You Just Said is Not In response To What I Said, If you Plan On Replying Then At least Reply To My Statements With Logical FACTS, Rather Then Puns And Sarcasm. And Last I do Agree That MOST. . .Once Again MOST Christians Pray At The Brink Of death However How Is to Say That People From All sorts Of Different Religions Do The Same hm?
PrinceRocky561 1 month ago
@PrinceRocky561 YOU;RE STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION. NO WONDER YOU DONT GET IT. I NEVER SAID BAPTISM SAVES. IT WIPES OUT ORIGINAL SIN. AND GIVES NEW LIFE AS IT CONFIRMS US AS CHILDREN OF GOD. WHAT WE DO THE REST OF OUR LIVES IS UP TO US. WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
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@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT." Can you show me where someone was offered Grace, yet rejected it? Can Grace be rejected? If God is showing "favor", which is what Grace is, can that be rejected? Also, I am still wondering where scripture tells us, that baptism wipes out original sin? This coming from someone who believes Mary was without sin?
Haukman66 1 month ago
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Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
catholicism is pure trash, Jesus Spoke of him being Through HIM the ONLY way To Be cleansed from sin. That Already Is going AGINST The Word Of God. The Lord Speaks Of Separated Our Sin By The Blood Of The Lamb (Might You Be Saved) as Far as East From WEST. Why must You Suffer EVEN More To Go Into Heaven? Non Sense. Also catholics Believe That You Go To Hell "Forever". What LOVING LIVING GOD Does That!? Purgatory Is MADE UP and NOT In Scripture.
PrinceRocky561 2 months ago
@PrinceRocky561 I guess we can sin all we want our whole lives then conviniently repent on our deathbed? typical non Catholic ignorance. Carry the cross? nah I'll just repent moments before I die. Ahh, here's an Idea, what if I take a bullet in the head or get hit by a bus and had no time to repent. Well I guess I'm screwed right? Baptism cleanses inherited sin , which came from Adam and eve. It doesnt cleanse sins we freely commit. All sin is freely committed by the way. Wake up morons!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 I meant it doesnt cleanse future sins obviously.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "I guess we can sin all we want our whole lives then conviniently repent on our deathbed? typical non Catholic ignorance." this is the problem with people like you. You think the things you do, will make God save you! Nevermind about what scripture says, about being born again, huh?
"Baptism cleanses inherited sin" Oh really? I thought Christ cleanses us from sin? But you dont know this because Rome doesnt teach it.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 Jesus' died for our sins and our redemption. We still have free will to sin. You think you are still in grace sin after sin? Gee must be nice. Baptism wipes out original sin. The sin we inherited fro Adam and Eve. After Baptism we are confirmed as children of God. Thats just the begining. you seem to think grace is automatic. You also think we are worthy. Only Jesus' was worthy, yet he was Baptized himself.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Baptism wipes out original sin. " Another dogma of the RCC. Baptism does not save. Christ saves. He paid the price, for sin for all who would believe in Him by faith. Where is it said, that baptism wipes out "original sin"?
"You also think we are worthy." No, actually I dont. No man is.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 I didnt say it saves, it renews. This exactly why you dont understand. Not everyone has faith so does that mean everyone is saved anyway? Nope. Faith is not enough, we have to live by that faith. You're ignoring where the bible says that you shalll now him buy the fruits he bears Bearing fruits is working at it not automatic. An apple tree cannot bear apples if it doesnt get water and sunlight etc. IT TAKES WORK.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
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@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Not everyone has faith so does that mean everyone is saved anyway?" Nope, they go to hell.
"Faith is not enough, we have to live by that faith" Yep, faith shows itself by works. If you have not works, it shows your faith is false. But your RCC claims that we are saved by faith AND works, whereas the bible states, that we are saved, by faith APART from works.
Haukman66 1 month ago
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@Haukman66 YOU;RE STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION. NO WONDER YOU DONT GET IT. I NEVER SAID BAPTISM SAVES. IT WIPES OUT ORIGINAL SIN. AND GIVES NEW LIFE AS IT CONFIRMS US AS CHILDREN OF GOD. WHAT WE DO THE REST OF OUR LIVES IS UP TO US. WE CAN ACCEPT GRACE OR REJECT IT. I'M SURE YOU STILL WONT GET IT
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 So.....You're saying that you have to be BAPTIZED to make it to HEAVEN?
ViciousWayz 1 month ago
@ViciousWayz Isnt anybody paying attention? Where did I say You need to be baptized to get to Heaven? Forget it, Never mind. No wonder the religions that broke away are screwed! Do your homework. I dont have time here to teach Cathechism.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 I don't know why You're getting so frustrated....I was just asking a question.
ViciousWayz 3 weeks ago
@ViciousWayz Because all Christian denominations who branched off from Jesus' teachings ( what became Catholisicm) still dont understand scripture and end up drawing their own conclusion based on individual phrases (from scripture) and not from the entire context. Its frustrating because even though I give answers, you guys dont pay attention and assume what is not even there! No wonder scattered denominations are often confused!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 3 weeks ago
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@PrinceRocky561 Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
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SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
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beware youtube user megazordman2 who been posts deragatory comments about christianity on videos. Please go to his channel youtube dot com slash megazordman2 and report him 100 times a day if necassary until youtube bans him. Stop letting these people get away with it.
RethinkingAmerica 2 months ago
whyd christians STEAL and COPY catholics bible aswell as steal the jews old testament. WHO told them to make there OWN bible . and keep making new VERSIONS
sajakram1 3 months ago
And how do you know Purgatory doesn't exist? Do you know EVERYTHING about the Afterlife?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby I know what the bible says, and I believe it. Nuff said.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 In that case you should know that the BIBLE SAYS the Church is your AUTHORITY and NOT the Bible!
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Maybe you could give me the verses that say that? Hint: the real bible, not your apocrypha?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 "The Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth." 1 Timothy 3:15. There are more verses also if you are interested. Do you know why we have the Apocrypha? Search YouTube for: "Why do Catholics have 7 more books in their bible." Catholics follow Apostolic Tradition + Magisterium + Bible. Please search YouTube for: "Catholic Basics 3 of 69." It explains everything we believe in very clearly.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby I know what you believe. As for 1Timothy, this verse does not say, that the "church" as you say, (the roman church) is the pillar of truth. All believers, are "Pillars" per Gal. 2:9. They are to go and spread the gospel. The church, is all believers. And of course the church(believers who make up the body) should be a pillar of truth. That is what Paul was talking about. Your tradition, is wrong ,anti biblical, and your magisterium, has been full of heretics. Whats left? BIBLE
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 We are Temples of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus Christ also established a visible CHURCH on earth with real leaders. Our Tradition is based upon what the Apostles preached for many years before they wrote it down - and not absolutely everything was written down - just like the Oral Law of the Jews. The Church is lead by the Holy Spirit - Christ PROMISED the Gates of Hell would NOT prevail against it. Either He spoke the Truth or He is a Liar. Your Choice.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby For one, Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church. Something you deny. Your dogma, that Peter was the first pope, is bunk. Your tradition, is doctored history. Plain and simple. Of course you take what your rcc says, as legitimate. I do not. I take what scripture says, over anything. Yes, Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail against the church, that HE was going to build. NOT Peter. Sorry.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 OK then, so where did Jesus build His Church then? We do NOT deny that Jesus is the Cornerstone. Who told you this? Jesus said: You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church. I'm sure you've heard of that before.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby You think Jesus was building a "literal" church? You need to learn to read the bible. Yes, I am familiar with the verse you are referring to. It had nothing to do with Peter. It was play on words. I assume you were gonna tell me, that Jesus was building the church on Peter? And that he was the first pope? Please show me where the term pope is in scripture? Why did Paul talk about all the offices in the church, Elders, Deacons, and so forth, but never the pope?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 The word Pope comes from Papa which is Italian for "father." Peter was given the "Keys of the Kingdom", he was the head or father of the first Christian Congregation or Church. Yes Jesus was building a LITERAL Church. Didn't Paul write to the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Colosse, Phillipi, and Thessalonika? Didn't Jesus speak about the Churches in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea in Revelation? Were they not literal Churches?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Well Matthew 23:9, which tells us to call NO MAN father, is in direct opposition to that !! Do you people ever read the bible? Peter is NOT the head of anything. There is nothing that says that in scripture. Only catholic dogma. Yes Paul wrote to different churches, which proves what you are saying to be false. The church, are all believers, not a building, or denomination.(Acts 2:47)
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 YOU SAID Jesus did not set up a LITERAL Church. I just showed you that there were LITERAL CHURCHES that were addressed in the Bible. So how does this prove that what I said was FALSE? You are not making any sense! It says in the Bible that PETER WAS GIVEN THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM. That PROVES he was the HEAD of the Christian Congregation because NO ONE ELSE was given the Keys. How can you dispute that fact? cont --
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby I said, Jesus did not set up a literal CHURCH BUILDING/DENOMINATION as you say he did. The church is the believers. Peter was given keys, the other disciples were given keys. whats your point? He was head of nothing!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Do you know what you are talking about? Show me from the Bible where it says that OTHER Disciples were given Keys, apart from Peter? Why did Jesus tell PETER to feed His Sheep in John 21:15-17? Why did Jesus tell PETER to strengthen the other Disciples in Luke 22:31-32? Why is PETER always named FIRST in ALL listings of the Apostles? See Matthew 10:2 as one example. cont --
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Haukman66 cont -- In Acts 4:1-13, Peter is regarded by the Jews as the LEADER and spokesman of Christianity. In Mark 16:7 Peter is specified by an Angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles. In Acts 11:5-17, Peter instructs the other Apostles on the catholicity (universality) of the Church. And I can give you many more verses which establish the Primacy of Peter! So can you say Peter was the head of NOTHING?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby LOLOLOL. You are using Acts 4:1-13 as proof Peter was the leader? It says nothing in the text of that !! Peter was not the cornerstone!! Please explain what you are getting at with this verse.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 I said in Acts 4:1-13, Peter is regarded by the Jews as the leader and spokesman of Christianity. Peter is talking about Jesus and representing "Christianity" to the Jewish leaders.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Please show the specific verse, that states "Peter is the leader and spokesman". Only thing I see is verse 13 that states, both Peter and John, they were marvelled by them.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 2 cont -- You haven't finished discussing the Church and you are already jumping onto another topic about the word "father." The meaning of that verse is "no earthly father must come BEFORE your Heavenly Father." This is shown in Matthew 10:37, when Jesus said: "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." That doesn't mean you can't call anyone else father! Abraham was called "father" 7 times in Romans 4:1-18. cont --
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby You are cracking me up. I wasnt talking about a Father or Mother. That is the context of Matt. 10:37. The verse I mentioned, was talking about titles of men. That is exactly what the catholic church does, by making your pope, the "vicar" of Christ. Which is idolatry in the first rank!!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Where does it say that calling the Pope "father" is idolatry? Idolatry is when you WORSHIP someone as GOD. Why did the Jews call their Priests FATHER? Judges 17:10, "Stay with me, Micha said to him. Be Father and Priest to me..." Judges 18:19, "Come with us and be our Father and Priest. Calling someone "father" is not worshipping them!
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby My point is, that nowhere in scripture, is there said, to have someone be a "vicar" of Christ on earth. That is the context of Matt. 23. In Matthew 23, he was speaking to the multitudes and his disciples (verse 1). He was talking about how the scribes and Pharisees had seated themselves in "The chair of Moses," which was a position of authority within the Jewish system at the time of the Pharisees. But Jesus was condemning them. (cont)
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Jesus was condemning the Pharisees immoral behaviour, not their Position of Authority. SOMEONE has to LEAD the Church or else there will be Chaos! Look at how many Protestant denominations there are. About 30,000, right? And they ALL disagree on Scripture! Are you going to tell me that this is what GOD wants - that everyone interprets Scripture for themselves and ends up disagreeing with everyone else? Where is the unity in this?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby "SOMEONE has to LEAD the Church or else there will be Chaos! " Spoken like a true catholic!! Sounds just like the RCC when they refused to have the bible in the hands of the "common folk". Isnt that back when they read the mass in latin, and noone even knew what was being said? Ridiculous!! Dont start with denominations. Good grief. Just look at your own denomination. Priests and little boys? And the Pope wouldnt even condemn them? Or what about the Pope kissing the koran?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 I am here to talk about the Official TEACHINGS of the Roman Catholic Church, not individual people or their Sins. Sinners are everywhere, inside and outside of the Church. Protestants have peophiles too, but I am here only going to discuss DOGMA. If you have a serious question, I would be most happy to discuss it with you.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby My point in bringing up the priests, being pedophiles, is you brought up the different denominations. As if that has anything to do with anything. The question is, are they following scripture? And the fact your "vicar" would not even own up to the fact, that it was happening. This is YOUR spokesman for Christ! There is so many things wrong with your doctrine, but you, just like the mormons, and the JW's are so blinded, you cant see it. Just like scripture says.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 There have been good Popes and not so good Popes. Pope Benedict XIV is a good Pope. We are all blinded by what we believe. I believe I have the Truth in the Roman Catholic Church. I believe she was the FIRST Church, and Jesus promised to be with His Church until the End of Time. People only see the bad things but the Church has done a lot of good also. Schools, Hospitals, Missions, feeding the poor, caring for the dying, etc. Just keep on open mind.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby All this is filthy rags in the sight of God. (Isaiah 64:6) Yes, it is good in the sight of man. But without the gospel of Christ, it is nothing! Feeding the poor, to send them to hell with their bellys full. Yeah, that makes sense.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 But we do read the Gospel in Church! I go to Church every Sunday and I hear the Gospel being read. What church do you attend?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby What is the gospel?
Haukman66 3 months ago
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@Haukman66 The Gospel is Jesus' Teachings -- Love the Lord your GOD with all your Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength, and Love one another as I have loved you.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Latin was the established Literary Language of that Time. Latin was used as the language of "international communication", Scholarship, Theology and Science, until well into the 18th Century, when it began to be replaced by vernacular languages. Everything that was written during the Dark & Middle Ages and Renaissance, including secular books, was written in Latin. Everyone who was literate could read Latin. Those who could not read Latin, could NOT read, period.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby This response is utter nonsense. What is the point, to speak the mass in a language that NO ONE can understand? Why do you think the apostles spoke in tongues in Acts? So that the people could all understand in their own language! Please!! Gimme a break with this. Many died and went to hell, because rome was doing this. Utterly disgusting.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Educated people DID understand Latin in those days! Only those people who could not read and write did not understand Latin, because they didn't go to School. Remember also 90% of the population in those days were Farmers, so they didn't see a need to learn how to read if they worked on the land all day. When they went to Church they would hear the Homily of the Priest and that was their Bible teaching.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby So what your saying, is the gospel, was only for the "educated" people?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 No, I said only educated people could READ it for themselves. The others had to have it read to them by others.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Haukman66 So, I asked you a simple question. What is the gospel?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 I've told you. The Gospel is Jesus Teachings.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Soooo, just what I suspected...you dont even know the gospel. This is how far away, the roman catholic church has strayed. How do you even know if you are saved?
Haukman66 3 months ago
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@Haukman66 OK then you tell me, what is the Gospel?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Remember back in the Middle Ages, going to School was not compulsory as it is today. People worked hard on the land just to make enough to survive. Children were expected to help their parents farm the land, and only the children of Kings, Princes, and Nobles, were given a formal education. Sometimes if a child showed special talent, he would be sent to a Monastery to be taught, and if he was very lucky, they would send him off to a University.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Excuses. What rome did, was kept the scriptures from the common folk, that way, they could control the masses. Go ahead and deny it. Selling indulgences, is from the pit of hell. You cant buy your way to heaven, for yourself, or for anyone else. I am still waiting to hear, what the gospel is. If you cant tell me, it will show, you are lost.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Please go and study some History. Honestly, most people at that time could NOT read. That is the Truth. The Gospel is the Good News that Jesus came to Die for our Sins, that we are Saved by His Grace, and that we have Eternal Life by believing in Him and loving Him.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby Oh, so you had to go look that up? So, if we are saved by grace, then what is this "sacraments" stuff? Do you know what Grace is? Didnt rome, pronounce "anathema" to the doctrine of justification by faith alone?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Sacraments are channels of Divine Grace given by the Church to STRENGTHEN us Spiritually. For example, when we receive Holy Communion, we are strengthened Spiritually. Grace is Divine Favour. Yes an Anathema is upon all who are outside of the Roman Catholic Faith and contradict her teachings.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
@Cherubaby yeah, I find it funny, that they would put an "anathema" on what scripture clearly teaches. And there is nothing in scripture, that says one must be a "roman catholic" to be saved. Nope. Not one. Nowhere does it say, anyone must believe that Mary was assumed to heaven. Why? Because scripture does not teach such nonsense. Nowhere, does scripture mention "sacraments" are a requirement. Nowhere!!!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Sacraments are extra "blessings." If you want to be a member of a particular Church then you must believe what they do. What is the point of coming together if everyone believes differently? The Bible says: "There is ONE Lord, ONE Faith, ONE Baptism." Ephesians 4:5. Like I said in the beginning we believe Apostolic Tradition + Magisterium + Bible = ALL Truth.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
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@Cherubaby No you dont. You believe in the papacy. You dont believe scripture. If you did, you would believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone. Not of works or anything else. There is no such thing as indulgences. There is no such thing as purgatory. People dont go there, to work off sins! That is blasphemy. Sacraments, are doing things, in order gain favor with God. That is anti biblical.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 You must get your info from cereal boxes andf youtube! Do you even know what grace is? Obviously not. Let alone Sacraments.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
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SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Do you even know what grace is?" The question is, do YOU? I dont belong to a "works" based religion. I am saved by Grace, through faith, not works! And your name calling, shows an unregenerated heart. Better go get re-bapitized again.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 Baptism is a one time thing. the rest is up to us. We must maintain that grace. We have to work at it. You no nothing about grace, obviously.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
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@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "Baptism is a one time thing. the rest is up to us. We must maintain that grace." Oh really? Where does scripture say, "we must maintain grace"? How is that even possible? Grace is a free gift from God! We dont keep it ourselves!
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 Ignorance continues... nobody sells indulgences. Do you even know what an indulgences are? obviously not! Its just prayer you moron. There is no fee to attend Mass, I dont know where these morons get this stupid idea!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago in playlist Catholicism
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 apparently, you dont even know your own church teaching. "Once a person has 'earned' an indulgence, he or she can apply it either personally(thereby reducing his or her own temporal punishment for sins committed), or can by prayer apply it to the account of a dead loved one believed to be in purgatory. So indulgences can benefit both oneself and ones loved ones."- Catechism of the Catholic church pg. 411. Just a prayer huh?
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 Of course! You got it! I never said otherwise! Yes in in form of prayers among other things.
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
@SOULJACKMUSIC1 Once a person has "earned" an indulgence, he or she can apply it, reducing temporal punishment for sins committed. That is a "works" based system, which the bible condemns! Jesus paid for ALL SINS.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 I guess we can relax and kick back and do whatever we please. It doesnt matter we are all saved. Hitler must loving heavenly life right now, why not? his works didnt matter , he was saved!
SOULJACKMUSIC1 1 month ago
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@SOULJACKMUSIC1 "I guess we can relax and kick back and do whatever we please. It doesnt matter we are all saved. " Another misguided comment. Do you even read the bible? Just because someone says "Im saved" does not make them saved! A born again child of God, will have a change in his behaviour. Those who still live in rebellion, are showing they are not born again.
Haukman66 1 month ago
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@SOULJACKMUSIC1 How to DEBUNK the CATHOLIC CHURCH on PURGATORY
Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
abukid 1 week ago
@Cherubaby because he said that they "tie up heavy loads and laid them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them," (Matthew 23:4). In verse 8, Jesus says not to call anyone Rabbi (which means teacher). Jesus was saying that the true authority lies not with men, but with God. In the context of the religious leaders of Israel and calling someone "father," Jesus was saying not to give them the reverence and honor which belong to God. That is what I am trying to say.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 We do NOT give to the Pope the reverence and honour which belongs to GOD. No. We give the Pope the honour and reverence due to him as a Man of GOD, the same as if Peter or one of the Apostles was amongst us today. To give him the reverence and honour due to GOD would mean we have to WORSHIP him, and nobody "worships" the Pope.
Cherubaby 3 months ago
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@Cherubaby Oh, you just give the worship to Mary huh?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 3 cont -- Saint Paul calls himself "father" to the Christians many times! What does 1 John 2:13 say? Do a search for the word "father" and see how many times people are called "father"! So if the Disciples called other people "father" - which is what they did - they obviously Jesus meant "put no earthly father BEFORE your Heavenly Father" which is the explanation I gave you. Make sense?
Cherubaby 3 months ago
But you obviously don't want to see it and prefer to remain in the dark and never see the truth.
sgal88 3 months ago
Believers of the purgatory do not believe in the power of Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection.
Zeikid 5 months ago
@Zeikid Deniers of purgatory do not understand the mercy of God.
sgal88 4 months ago
@sgal88 Believers of purgatory are mindless goats who follow the antichrist, false Christian religion of Romanism.
FAITHandLOGIC 3 months ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Deniers of purgatory insult God's mercy and those who also insult the Church which God established will fall into the pit.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 God's mercy is carried out through the cross, not punishing a person further by burning them for purifying. By grace we are saved. Purgatory was another false pagan doctrine the Catholics brought in for the purpose of more money.
FAITHandLOGIC 3 months ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Jesus died on the cross. But it did not mean that we are not to be punished for any sins that have not been resolved here in Earth. If we take your logic, then repented murderer's and thieves should not be put in jail but given a slap on the hands. But that is not how we do things for justice must be served and just like a person who dies repented after having done horrid crimes, so to must he be purged in the fires of purgatory to be finally united with God.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 If we take your logic, there is no purpose for Christ dying on the cross. He died for our sins therefore we are made pure through Him, not a fiery torment. If we need to have our sins purged away, then why have Christ die in the first place?
FAITHandLOGIC 3 months ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Your logic actually falls flat. Scripture tells us to forgive and yet we want justice as we forgave. God is the same manner with us. If we take it from your erroneous perspective, we should forgive and not let murderers, rapist, thieves stay in jail to pay for their crimes.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 The problem here is that you have no idea what scripture says, rather you go by the Catechism and the antichrist system that is the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, you should forgive those who harm you as God forgives you. That doesn't mean that the system of government does not punish a murderer for his crimes. It is not you who conducts the punishment. As scripture says, we must give mercy if we expect to receive it. Christ took the punishment so we don't have to. There is no purgatory.
FAITHandLOGIC 3 months ago
@FAITHandLOGIC You yourself admit that justice demands one to repay for the crime. You insult God by insinuating that he has no justice. Yes, he is merciful, but he is also Just. You think that a Church that has been around 2K years and understood Scripture in the first few centuries is wrong? in comparison to you with x amount of wisdom. Garbage!
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 You simply dont understand. Our sins were punished at calvary! Abraham believed, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Those who never repent, pay for their own sins! Jesus said, "It is finished". The debt we owe God, was reconciled! Again, you do not understand the gospel.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 "It is finished" meant that he did what he was suppose to do to bring us back to God. Justice is still necessary, which you, Protestant eliminate from your theology. Our Blessed Lord tells us to "be perfect," yet the person who is forgiven has yet to reach perfection, just entered the state of grace to begin the perfecting process.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Justice was done at the cross my friend! Christ is our Proptiation! You do know what that word means dont you? Where in scripture is anyone perfect? Please show me, I would love to see it. Paul states emphatically, "and be found in him, NOT HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN THAT COMES FROM THE LAW, BUT THAT WHICH COMES THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST"!. According to you, Jesus' work was not enough!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Christ Himself tells us to be perfect like Our Heavenly Father is. If you are not perfect, you don't enter Heaven period. Second, it was a propitiation to bring us back to God, but it does not mean that we automatically gain Heaven without working at it.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Noone can be perfect. Only by the righteousness of Christ. We dont trust our own righteousness. Why do you think Jesus condemned the pharisees? They did the exact thing you are pushing. Telling someone to be perfect, means to strive for that. God told his people to keep his commandments in the OT, but NOONE could. That is why Christ came! For there is no salvation in the works of the law.
Propitiation means"satisfaction of Gods wrath".
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Yes, the satisfaction of God's wrath but it does not mean that your guilt is acquitted. If so, then there would be no point of asking for forgiveness, now would there? Jesus Christ is the one who you have an issue with. He is the one who is saying to be perfect. You seem to think that to be perfect is to be prideful as the Pharisees. Do you have the idea why they were hypocrites? They were hypocrites because they knew the law but did not follow it.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong. If the wrath of God was satisfied, what else would there be left? Our debt is paid! Repentance, is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of it. Because of what God has done, the Born again believer will repent.
And again, you have no understanding. The pharisees, followed the law to a tee!! Yet they were dead inside. Paul tells us, the law could not save! Our righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees. We need Christs righteousness.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 If our righteous must exceed that of the Pharisees than that must mean we must become better or in other words, perfected through which grace is bestowed upon us. The law can not save us talks about the law of circumcision and what not, but we must abide by the law, such as not not to fornicate, not to rob and what not. The law of the Old Covenant does not save but the new one does. Your exegesis is off like all Protestants.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Have you not read what I have posted? Obviously not. We, as christians, have the righteousness of Christ(perfect righteousness) credited to our account! Maybe watch this video again! Christ has perfected us! We have been saved by Grace(unmerited favor) through faith, NOT OF WORKS! You have no biblical support for your belief. Only popes.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 That is not true at all. He must become perfect but just because Christ has forgiven our sins does not mean we are made perfect. He are then in the state of grace. We must have works to enter Heaven which come through grace, which you obviously are not understanding the priest here. Your heresy would lead many to hell for a misconstrued understanding of God. Since the Old Testament, people had to do penance for the evil they did. The need for penance did not all of a sudden stop.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 It is sad, you dont even know what the gospel is. You have not even provided one verse here to prove your dogma. I shows, you trust the church, and not Christ. You cannot show me one verse that says we "must be perfect, to go to heaven". The people in the old testament, were not saved(gone to heaven) because they obeyed the commandments! They were saved by grace! Otherwise, the JW's and Mormons will go to heaven as well. They keep the commandments. Better than most!
Haukman66 3 months ago
Scripture tells us that, w/o holiness, we cannot see the Lord (Heb 12:14). Nor can nothing unclean enter Heaven (Rev 21:27). The word "unclean" in Greek, koinon) refers to a spiritual corruption that must be cleansed before we can enter into God's presence. When we commit sin, it is like plunging a nail through a wood. These sins leave imperfection in our lives. When the nail is removed, it is the sin being forgiven, but then there is the hole that need repairing. Purgatory helps to smooth it.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 "Purgatory helps to smooth it." You summed up your dogma, in just a few words here! Christs sacrafice, according to you and rome, was not enough!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 That is what penance is and purgatory purges the evil what one has done. Scripture clearly makes references of it. You just want to blind yourself with your man made beliefs which have absoultely no backing of Church Fathers. You take your beliefs from a sinful man, Luther.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Purgatory, is not in the bible even once. The name, OR the concept. Period. Your dogma, was given to you by rome, and I have shown you that. Even the early church fathers didnt believe in it! Yep, Luther was a sinful man, just like the rest of humanity.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 The Eastern "Orthodox" and Catholics believe in praying for the dead. This belief of yours is foreign and only can be traced back to Luther. You accuse Rome of man made tradition yet yours is from Luther. While our Founder is Jesus Christ, your founder is a sinful man who thought himself above God, literally.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Once again, you appeal to your "orthodox" and "catholics" for your belief. There is nothing of this in scripture. Please, come with the bible, not your apostate religion.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Oh my gosh. THe Constitution, to whom do you appeal? To the people who are interpreting it now or to the founding fathers???
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Still no scripture huh? Do you own a bible? Most catholics do not, dont go to church with one either. I should know, I grew up there. I read the bible, and get understanding from the Holy Spirit. I read commentaries as well. But if they dont line up with what scripture clearly says, it is to be rejected. You however, just take blindly what the vatican tells you. Scripture please.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 LOOOOOL. Straw man. How many people have said that they have been guided by the Holy Ghost? Erm..I know, 30K denominations. Your argument doesn't do you justice but rather injustice. You also ignored my previous question. To whom will you pay attention to have an accurate interpretation of the Constitution? This sitting Congress and President OOOOOOR the Founding Fathers?
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Umm..did I not say, that if it does not line up with scripture I would disregard it? Pay attention. Still no scripture. Because you cant argue from scripture. You dont know the scriptures.
You bringing up the constitution, has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. It was written my sinful men. Scripture, was written by God. Maybe you didnt know that.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 First of all, Scripture is the INSPIRED Word of God, not written by God Himself, written by sinful man. Scripture was compiled by sinful man, who were ironically Catholic, inpsired by the Holy Ghost. Second, the Constitution has nothing to do with this, but it actually it what has given you your freedoms in comparison to a North Korea. Third, I have given you previously many Scripture verses but you refuse to acknowledge them. GO back and check them for your self.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Scripture is the inspired word, and it is God breathed!! 2Tim. 3:16. Maybe read the the bible right? Yep, it was written by sinful men, that is true. But Gods word, is infallible. It was the Holy Spirit working in them to accomplish his will. Catholic? Where do you get this? LOL. Nope that is not in scripture.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Neither is divinity, redemption and even Trinity yet you actually appeal to Catholic Tradition.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Again, you appealing to the old, "the Trinity is not mentioned in scripture either" argument is ridiculous. So, do you deny the Trinity? I would say you dont. Why? Because its taught!!! That is the difference, your traditions, are not taught in scripture!! You get them from your popes.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Funny. You do the same thing telling me that it, purgatory, is not found in context, yet the Church has made her decision that it is and even the Eastern Schismatics as well. You appeal to Luther, which you don't seem to understand. You also appeal to your own 40 year understanding against a 2000 year Church who established the Bible as is. Tell me, how do you know that the Bible is suppose to have x amount of books?
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 I have never appealed to Luther. I have never said anything about anyone. Only used the bible. The bible does not contradict itself. However, your doctrines, would have the apostles and Christ being schizo. That is because your doctrines are "man made". Nuff said.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 That is a lie. You do appeal to Luther because purgatory and praying to the dead was always done. To whom do you appeal to. You lie if you say no one.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 LOL. No one but the catholic church believes that. It is not in the scripture. That is the point. Luthers eyes were opened up by actually reading the scriptures. Something the roman catholic church did NOT want anyone doing! You should research your own denomination. They did not want the bible in the hands of the "common folk". I wonder why?
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Another lie. Luther himself could not make up his mind if it was necessary to pray for the dead. He flip flopped. Second, since you do take a page from Luther and even say that his "eyes were opened up," then you should know that he always thought the Mother of God to always be a Virgin and necessary to pray to.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Umm, it is obvious, you have no argument. You keep bringing up Luther, as if I follow him. I am not lutheran. I do not agree with alot of things he taught. So, again, quit bringing him up. He is not relevant to this discussion. You ever gonna bring scripture ? If Luther thought Mary to always be a virgin, then he was wrong. Or do you think that the Holy Spirit came on her and she conceived Jesus' brothers? LOL.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Your Protestant hail Luther yet only get what was "right" from his teaching. You do technically follow Luther if you want to believe it or not. As for bringing up Scripture, look at the previous comments. I did so many times and you refuse to acknowledge it.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 You used one verse, way out of context. So, you gonna bring me scripture, that says, Mary remained a virgin? Cmon, give it to me. Just one verse. One hint, that she remained a virgin. Or how bout, that she was assumed into heaven? Or that she was not a sinner? Cmon, give it your best shot.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 This need that a verse that say she was assumed in Heaven is as pointless as saying that I need to provide one verse of the word Trinity, yet it is taught.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Exactly. You dont have one verse for anything I just said. Yet you blindly believe it, because your popes teach it. Hence the scriptures are true. 2Tim. 4:3-4- For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. So true.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Actually not at all. There are types within Scripture that can allude to the Virgin Mary's assumption, for example the assumption of Enoch and Elijah. The fact is, even if I tried to educate you, you'd go in a circular argument telling me that if it is not in Scripture it is false. Yet, I appeal to the fact that the words Trinity, redemption are not found in Scripture but in context. Yet, you believe it. Imagine I was a Jehovahs Witness, you'd have the same problem I am having with u.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Your arguments are ridiculous. You add to the text. Which is against scripture, which says, not to go beyond what is already written. 1Cor. 4:6. And to be clear, I never said, "noone was ever taken up to heaven". But I did say, Mary was NEVER taken. Scripture never even hints at it. As a matter of fact, the New Testament only mentions Mary a couple times. Yet you catholics esteem her over Christ! I love your video on your page. "Dedicated to the blessed virgin mary". Idolatry!
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 How do you know what was suppose to be in the text if the Bible was not compiled until a few centuries later? Second, there are things called types which can prove the existence of many things. For example, Jesus is the type of Adam, correct? Who is the type of Eve? Third, Mary, in her wisdom, pronounced at the Annunciation that she will blessed among all women for generations to come.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 1) How do you know you have the right books? Umm..probably because you believe your popes. 2) Scripture tells us, that ADAM was a "type" of the one to come. So no, thats not correct. Jesus was not a type of
Adam. But we know this because the bible tells us so. Who is the type of Eve? Does scripture tell us? 3) Mary was blessed by God. Your point? I am blessed. Read Luke 11:27-28. Quit exalting someone, that is no better than anyone else!
Haukman66 3 months ago
A type is something that fulfills. So Adam a type of Jesus, yes. Perhaps I incorrectly worded it, but the idea is there. So as Christ is the New Adam, who could be the new Eve? That kind of question can come up and is a good question to actually ask. Second, a mere creature exalted her on self. She is a Virgin because no where in Scripture it actually indicates that she had further children. Read your Scripture correctly. I am pretty sure you had to use a guide to understand Scripture.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 The scripture speak of Christ. Not of Mary. So, to even ask, who is the "type" of Eve, is irrelevant. Its just an excuse to exalt Mary. Thats all. Where do you think James came from? Galatians 1:19- But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lords brother. Mark 6:3-Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? Also see Matthew 13:55-56. Um, yep, scripture is clear.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 First of all, to call someone brother does not necessarily mean that they are blood brother. In the original Greek, the words use are 'adelphoi' (brethren) and 'adelphe' (sisters). These words can refer to actual sisters and brothers however they can also be used to describe cousins or relatives or step brothers or close neighbors. For example, Scripture says that Abraham was Lot's brother (Gen 14:14-16), yet we know that Abraham was Lot's uncle. Try again.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Once again, your argumentation is wanting. Gal. 1:19 , Paul calls James, Jesus' brother! Paul, nowhere else, called someone Jesus' brother! The fact that Paul saw, "None of the OTHER apostles except James the Lords brother", is stating emphatically, he was a blood brother! Not just a "spiritual" brother.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Straw man.
sgal88 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sgal88 Yeah, you dont know how to read.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@sgal88 I wonder why the verse doesnt say, "HE never knew her, for she was a perpetual virgin"?
Haukman66 3 months ago
Continuation with the other point. We see in Scripture clear proof of what I am saying. In 2 Samuel 6:23-"Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death." Does that mean that Michal started having children after her death???? Heb 1:13, "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" There refers to the Son of God. Does this mean that He will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father?
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Nice rabbit trails here. Does scripture say anywhere, that Michal had ANY children? NO. So your point is worthless. Scripture tells us, that Jesus had brothers, and I have shown you this. But you in your ignorance will not see it. Your using Hebrews 1:13 was just ridiculous, and not even worth addressing. LOL.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Oh my gosh. You truly strawman even further. You know very well what those Scripture verses even are saying yet you want to clearly ignore the facts in how it is used. The use of Hebrews was the same way you are addressing the issue with Mary and Joseph and the word "until." You are obviously coming to the point of intellectual dishonesty.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Matthew 1:25- Joseph knew her not UNTIL she had given birth to a son. Why the word UNTIL? Because the text is stating that he did consumate their marriage, after Jesus was born!
Haukman66 3 months ago
First of all, that part of the consummation is your part. You are adding to what is not there. Second, "firstborn son" is a legal title given to a first-born male child in a Jewish family. You need to know the historicity to interpret Scripture, which you fail to do. Third, the Greek word for 'until' or 'till' does not imply that Joseph and Mary had sex after Jesus. It simply means that they had no relations up to that point, without saying anything about what happened after that point.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Consumation, means to come together as one flesh. This is usually done, by having sex. So, I didnt add anything. It says, they did not have sex, UNTIL she bore Jesus. It they never had sex, there would be no need for the word, UNTIL! LOL.
You need to know your bible. Firstborn, has more meaning than what you give it. David was said to be the "firstborn" in Psalm 89:27. Was he the first born in his family? What about Manassah? Was he the firstborn or not? (Gen.41:50-51, Jer. 31:9)
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 Straw man n u completely ignored by previous comment.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 I have addressed everything you presented.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 You wish. You straw man the point. But let me continue to further prove my point. 1 Tim 4:13-"Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine." Does this mean that they should abandon reading and doctrine after he comes? Obviously not.
Acts 23:1-"And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Does this mean that Paul necesarrily ceased to have a good conscious after that day? Nope!
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Funny, you say, I am using strawmans, yet look what you do. 1Tim. 4:13 uses the word, "Until" I come give attendance to reading, exhortation, to doctrine. This is not using the word the same way as Matthew 1. Matthew 1 is using it the same as when you catholics say, "I am giving up beer until lent is over". Obviously, you catholics will continue to get loaded afterwards(after lent). So, the same goes for Matthew 1. Joseph did not know Mary, UNTIL AFTER she bore Jesus. LOL.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@Haukman66 You are so misinterpretation Scripture that you should stop being intellectually dishonest. 1 Tim 4:13 did not mean that they should abandon reading doctrine after he comes. The same with Joseph and Mary and the word until. The same with how you misinterpret brother when it deals with Jesus is the same way you would have read that Abraham and Lot were brother instead of uncle and nephew.
sgal88 3 months ago
@sgal88 Cont. But in 1Tim. 4, Paul is saying Until I get there, do these things. When I get there, I will instruct you in these things. Simple.
Haukman66 3 months ago
@sgal88 Also, you do realize, the word "Until" is a translation. The word, translated as "Until" is achri achris in the greek. And this could mean, " UP TILL" . Meaning, Up till this time. So, your argument is falling apart. Sorry.
Haukman66 3 months ago