My is 100 percent Norwegian. He grew up in Minnesota on a farm and while him and his family were on the farm, the only spoke Norwegian. I don't know how much Norwegian I have in me but I know it's at least over half. I've always been interested in learning the language and visiting the country someday. I stumbled across one of your videos a few days ago and think it's great what you're doing for everyone. I'm also surprised how clear your English is, at 1st I thought you were american.
I'm learning German and the german adjectives are STRESSFUL. I found so much more easy norwegian adjectives. I may be chose the wrong language to learn :D
@DrNoBias I may be wrong, but I would guess Norway have (way) over 50 dialects. People tend to be very local patriots, and dialects is a big part of that, that's the reason why there is so much debates on the topic. We even have 2 written languages for ca.5mill people, we can't come to agree to have just one. When it comes to dialect diffrences there are over 15 ways to say "Who, what, where" depinding on where you live. And there is 12 ways saying "Jeg" ("I")
I am just curious, why do you do this? Like why are you teaching Norwegian on youtube? I find it interesting and just found your page. My moms family is Norwegian and dads is Swedish so thats how i started getting interested in the language. (yeah I am from Minnesota).. But yeah I was just wondering why you do this? are you like a language teacher or something??
@Crienexzy your doing a great job. please dont stop. I am learning so much from you. Theres really not much Norwegian learning material out there so thank you !
Wow linguistic evolution in action. Norwegian seems to be doing the same thing English did a few hundred years ago. Getting rid of the articles by just adopting the mail and neuter article as the neuter article. The interesting thing about American English is I think Spanish is starting to re-insert articles. I hear he and she for 'it' objects. Thank for your vids!
how do i know if the word is male or neutral? and if something is female, then do you use neutral or male? argh this is so difficult =( there are so few languages that don't have any genders or articles at all, my first language (estonian) being one of them ;)
@pesuhiir You have to learn the gender of each words, like in german. As for the feminine, just use male instead, so you only have 2 genders: neutral and male.
@hungvuhungvu faen = fuck helvette = hell hestkuk = horsepenis jævel = imp? Small devil satans kuk jævel = son of a bitch/ satans penis imp/devil forbanna helvettes jævla satans dritkjerring frå austlandet som ete kuk drit og hondeskit t frukost som danna dialekta henna = Bloody hell, fucking shitwoman from eastern Norway who eats penis/cock, shit and dogcrap for breakfast which eventually forms the her dialect <3
Its another word used for someone that's angry "sint" and but "å banne" means "to curse" and I think the idea of the word is that you're cursed into anger or something like that...
@Crienexzy But still, what is the "official" status about female forms? I mean most countries having their own languages have some kind of standard even people don't care too much. Yes, I know that there is bokmål and nynorsk (and for sure many non-official but spoken and sometimes even written dialects), but if we speak only about bokmål now, what is the official status on this topic? I only ask this because I am interested in the answer.
@lgblgblgblgb The official status in general of both Nynorsk and Bokmål is that people have a lot of choice because the labor party tried to merge the languages (allowing versions close to the other one) while other political parties tried to keep them apart ending with a wide specter of permitted forms.
I don't know if that is the case with female forms too, but it wouldn't surprise me...
We don't have any official standard spoken Norwegian although her dialect is almost the de facto standard.
@Luredreier Thanks, OK. But I mean about the 'standard written Bokmål" for example, what's the status of female forms in it. Just I am curious, for sure it does not matter too much if people usually "ignore" it in spoken form, but I am interested if it's in the grammar "officially" even people speak totally different way for example, that's all. Maybe my curiosity is totally useless here, but still :)
But that's partly because the official version of bokmål is competing with "Riksmål" a slightly archaic form of bokmål and a language used in several newspapers.
Riksmål is closer to danish and don't have a female form.
Språkrådet is suppose to be the official governing body of the norwegian language but it's competing with the interest groups of various other forms of norwegian: Riksmål, Bokmål, (Sammnorsk), Nynorsk and Landsmål...
@Luredreier Ok, and thanks. The reason I am interested in since I learn Norwegian as a hobby but I have a plan that it's "nice" to have some basic language exam if I spend my time with learning a language. And I really don't know what is the expected during an exam, I guess they are more interested in the "official standard" even if it's not so used ... I really don't know, in Hungary you can take a Norwegian exam, but who knows that they expect ... I should ask them for sure :)
@kosapeti But my dear, this off course true. But your reading the Bokmål right? :) Because in the Nynorsk there is a segnificant difference between female and male :P So it would still be very very very useful to speak to the rest of Norway as well, and not only her neighbourhood, don't you agree? ^-^
And since no one speaks anything but their own dialect when talking to someone else in Norway we're used to understanding people talking in a different way.
Not using the female form would be the least of the problems really...
@Luredreier I am trying to be funny somewhat, but it can be an advantage too: if Norwegian is spoken very different ways, I can do more mistakes since Norwegians are more used to understand "exotic" things than other nations in general. At least when I was in Oslo, there was not so much signs that even my very bad Norwegian cause problems for people there. Hmm maybe immigrants made them to accept quite bad Norwegian too, or it's a more older behaviour because of the divergent dialects/etc?
@lgblgblgblgb We norwegians become very happy and joyful if immigrants or tourists try to speak norwegian :) And of course we accept that you do not know the language by it's proper form :) But my problem is that THIS young woman, THIS norwegian herself claims that she teaches you Norwegian! For us, yes, her dialect and bokmål seems quite similar, but for many foreign people norwegian is a hard language in general. And if you look at it, her pronounciation of words is different form Bokmål.
@Martinandxxx Hmm, my Norwegian is too weak to judge on her work, but I always respected her for her works and that people like me can use their videos to learn. Also because Norwegian is really spoken quite differently by various people, maybe it's ok that everybody can teach their own dialect mostly. Well, at least me I respect people if they try to speak my language, so I guess others can have similar feelings, so even if my Norwegian is terrible still people can think it's nice if I try ...
@Martinandxxx By the way, I always thought that bokmål is "only" a written "standard" and there is no such a thing as "bokmål pronounciation". At least my books states this, saying that commonly taught pronounciation for foreigners is called "standard østnorsk", while bokmål (and nynorsk) only exists as an official method to _write_ Norwegian (actually two differnet "methods"). For sure, I don't wanna argue on this with a Norwegian :) I just say this now, because I know this way from books ...
@lgblgblgblgb I'm sorry that you've been dragged into this...
In general people are very accepting of different ways of talking.
But there are core areas of both the written forms of the language that's been fighting each other and the third part in the linguistic fight the samnorsk people for ages and that might in some cases be more judgmental...
Personaly I'm a supporter of samnorsk but as you might imagine, a two front war is doomed to fail...
Let me hopefully say my last comment on this. I have no issue at her trying to teach Norwegian to other people. Thumbs up for her.
But! She still says it is the typical Norwegian form, while it is her own dialect. This concludes her to withdraw important nouns, words and even missspell many sounds, which I believe mess a lot up for the "Students". I only want her to mention that this is only a teaching to speak her dialect, in her neighbourhood. Foreigners should not learn
different dialects, but rather the proper, "upper class" written forms, due to it's simplicity. And from there the person may tip over to what dialect he/she wants to learn :) It would be just the same for me to teach him the sounds from Finnmark, the "non exsisting" words of Sunnmøre, or even the cool/weird "R" sound of Bergen. It is indeed Norwegian, but people must learn the written forms first! :D Are you following me? :P
@Martinandxxx I simply don't agree with you on that.
I know three or four (depending a bit) people that have learned the language and some of them learned a dialect first without having any problems with that.
As for written norwegian... *shrugs*
A) Everyone will understand it the way mentioned here and B) when even native people using bokmål outside the østnorsk areas are unsure about weather it's an allowed form or not... *shrugs*
@Luredreier But of course what way they intend to use the language does play a role too.
If they want to get a job in the Norwegian administration either in the government or at a regional or local level then these videos won't be good enough, it's as simple as that.
But how many of the people in here have that in mind do you think?
B) The tourists who come to Norway, would only have to learn the "wrong" thing she is teaching. They would not need any further depht into the language, but still I must say that it would sound aweful for a tourist to try the Finnmark dialect in Sunnmøre, or even the sunnmøre dialect in the Eastern part. The last part is mostly because the eastern part simply do not understand most of us x)
@Martinandxxx C) If you should finf your way to stay in Norway for a longer period, then you should atleast know the written form and the correct pronounciation of words. That is my opinion. You simply can't speak so badly while you live here. Think of it. Norwegian is a hard language (bokmål/nynorsk), dialect are even harder, and are extremly various, and if you mix those into a foreign, it would simply be aweful for the person, to not be understood :/
@Martinandxxx Well if you're this sure that this is wrong, then find me some proper source saying that using female forms isn't optional.
Also, this is have nothing to do with being understood or not.
Eastern norway isn't all Oslo you know.
The rest of norway do have dialects too and sociolects and so one and it's not just her particular area that it's common not to use the female form and even if people might use it themselves it's bloody egoistic to expect everyone else to use them too->
@Luredreier Ahh :D I love one who can argue and discuss :D Thank you :) First I must admit that i blow a lot of "steam" while I'm here :P I live in Ålesund where they speak bokmål, with only the tone/(tonefall) from sunnmøre left :/ Which is quite sad, and it gets me upset :P To think that the capitol of Sunnmøre, the orgin of Nynorsk is falling over to Bokmål is just weird/sad/disappoiting :/
@Martinandxxx The fact that the female noun can be written in male form is true, but that still does not disclude it from Bokmål completely. I believe it should still be a part of the bokmål :/ But for Nynorsk there is a significant difference between the two forms, and therefor it's important to learn them both :) Will a foreign guy completely understand me if I use the female noun alot? :P This will be short, I got to go :/
@Martinandxxx When it comes to adjectives it really don't matter! ><
In the cases where it does I'm sure that she'll inform us all about it.
And in any case A) being new to norwegian in general don't make people idiots, if they travel outside our capital Oslo they'll eventually learn to deal with dialects just like everyone else in this country, although they might find it a little harder sometimes...
@Luredreier But in any case, the way that bokmål evolves is not something that nynorsk people really have all that much right to interfering in.
Let's just say that there's a reason why språkrådet er built up in such a way that when something only involves one of the two languages then only the people representing that language need to be involved in making the standard in that written language...
@Luredreier In any case, "blowing off steam" is not a productive way of dealing with this.
It just cause resentment. (something I should probably have considered myself before bothering with replying to you in the first place, but it was a bit hard when seeing red in the way I did)
In stead of complaining, simply make a video yourself.
Don't expect people that don't use the female forms at all to want to teach them away when they're optional.
It's not like it's her job to make these videos! ><
@Martinandxxx The fact that the female noun can be written in male form is true, but that still does not disclude it from Bokmål completely. I believe it should still be a part of the bokmål :/ But for Nynorsk there is a significant difference between the two forms, and therefor it's important to learn them both :) Will a foreign guy completely understand me if I use the female noun alot? :P This will be short, I got to go :/
@Martinandxxx Neither the people of Ålesund or anyone else speaks bokmål.
The thing you'd usually think of when talking about "bokmål" as a spoken language most of the time is "standard østnorsk" but that is not the same as bokmål, but is just another dialect of our language although with a bit more influence from danish then some of the other ones...
As for it changing the spoken language from dialect to our de facto standard...
@Luredreier But my dear, you must understand that there are many dialects which are really close to the written form of Nynorsk, including mine, were you might be considered mental if you said "en kake" instead of the real form, "ei kake" Norway is big and wide, please open your window, please open your ears, and see that people in other places of this nation have opinions and important facts besides those of yours.
As for considering anyone mental because of the way they speak...
People have fought long and hard in this country for our current linguistic freedom and those of us like me that like that freedom are not about to give it up.
Also, he's not trying to learn nynorsk nor your dialect as far as I'm aware...
But if you feel like making videos like these but for your dialect then feel free to do so.
@Luredreier Let me hopefully say my last comment on this. I have no issue at her trying to teach Norwegian to other people. Thumbs up for her.
But! She still says it is the typical Norwegian form, while it is her own dialect. This concludes her to withdraw important nouns, words and even missspell many sounds, which I believe mess a lot up for the "Students". I only want her to mention that this is only a teaching to speak her dialect, in her neighbourhood. Foreigners should not learn
@Martinandxxx different dialects, but rather the proper, "upper class" written forms, due to it's simplicity. And from there the person may tip over to what dialect he/she wants to learn :) It would be just the same for me to teach him the sounds from Finnmark, the "non exsisting" words of Sunnmøre, or even the cool/weird "R" sound of Bergen. It is indeed Norwegian, but people must learn the written forms first! :D Are you following me? :P
@Crienexzy Eg formodar du reffererar til meg? :P Ja, eg kan vere veldig provoserande og blir veldig hissa opp av slike diskusjonar. :P Men alt i alt, så har eg faktisk rett! <3 sjølv om i nokre situasjonar kan vere litt overdramastisk ^_^
@pivotair Fullstendig enig :D Og det er veldig morsomt når innehaveren av videoen lærer feil til sine elever ^-^ En lærerinne burde faktisk undervise sine elever riktig...
@Martinandxxx Vi har ikke et standardisert muntlig språk i dette landet, og hvis du ikke liker videoene så foreslår jeg at du lager noen selv i stedenfor å klage på andres arbeid...
F. eks. så kan du lage en video kommentar til denne videoen hvor du lærerbort det du mener er riktig.
* Most adjectives ending on -sk (and *all* nationalities)
* Adjectives ending on -el, -en and -er loose their first e if an e-ending follows, e.g. (indefinite -> definite): gammel -> gamle sulten -> sultne vakker -> vakre
* blå, grå and ny get a -tt ending in the 3rd prs. sing. blå and grå don't get an ending in the plural, ny becomes nye
* liten: en liten kopp, ei lita kake, et lite troll, små kopper, små kaker, små troll
@Crienexzy No, Male: en gutt, gutt -en gutt- er, gutt -ene Female: ei, mark the EI jente, jent -a, jent -er, jentene Your dialect says the "jenta" as "jentEN" Why can''t you just tell them that you are teaching them neither bokmål nor nynorsk but rather your own dialect which is only used in the small eastern part of Norway?? You know that most of the country despite you for your lack of the female form.
Well actually in most of "teach yourslf Norwegian" books they mention that it is not so common anymore to use feminine gender. And for the beginners it is less confusing to learn the new language.
@kristytamo Well actually, you h a v e only read the bokmål ones ^-^ The Nynorsk is different, and for a common norwegian it would still sound weird to say "en bok".. Yea yea, for the beginners, but it's hard to re-learn it when it's actually learned wrong. :/ Just sayin.
@Martinandxxx A) You'll be understood anywhere regardless of where in the country your language originates.
B)Østnorsk er ikke noe mere mindreverdig en vestnorsk eller nordnorsk, det er bare enda en gruppe med dialekter som tildels har like gammelt opphav. (tror ikke at din dialekt ikke har endret seg ei heller at østlendinger bare snakker dansk)
I switched from english to norwegian in the middle of the post... ><
The second part is:
"B)Østnorsk (east norwegian) is not any more inferior then vestnorsk (west norwegian) or nordnorsk (north norwegian), it is only another group with dialects that in part have just as old an origin."
Hello!
First I have to appreciate your kindness for helping people to Understand Norwegian Language.
I am a foreigner and just start Norskkurs 3 weeks ago and everyday gett nore interesting to learn More.
I would like to say that there is a Metod which it may help to learn languge somehow easier and faster .
And I would like to ask you if that would be sounds intereting for you please let me know, then We may can Develop this Metod on Video or CDs.
I live in Oslo and student at Rosenhof.
typicalgold 2 months ago
Oops, I meant to say my grandpa is 100 percent Norwegian.
ersnare 6 months ago
My is 100 percent Norwegian. He grew up in Minnesota on a farm and while him and his family were on the farm, the only spoke Norwegian. I don't know how much Norwegian I have in me but I know it's at least over half. I've always been interested in learning the language and visiting the country someday. I stumbled across one of your videos a few days ago and think it's great what you're doing for everyone. I'm also surprised how clear your English is, at 1st I thought you were american.
ersnare 6 months ago
I'm learning German and the german adjectives are STRESSFUL. I found so much more easy norwegian adjectives. I may be chose the wrong language to learn :D
Carol88SpB 6 months ago
i love you !
Caballeroscuro78 7 months ago
@DrNoBias I may be wrong, but I would guess Norway have (way) over 50 dialects. People tend to be very local patriots, and dialects is a big part of that, that's the reason why there is so much debates on the topic. We even have 2 written languages for ca.5mill people, we can't come to agree to have just one. When it comes to dialect diffrences there are over 15 ways to say "Who, what, where" depinding on where you live. And there is 12 ways saying "Jeg" ("I")
thadon12 9 months ago
I want to learn Norwegian consistently, but the tones I shy away from. Swedish has only one, but I believe Norwegian has two.
HannonLe 10 months ago
Thanks so much for all your hard work and time!
howmanyhanksarethere 10 months ago 2
Faen, ogsaa! Nei ... det skulle hun ikke.
WhiteKnite7 1 year ago
I am just curious, why do you do this? Like why are you teaching Norwegian on youtube? I find it interesting and just found your page. My moms family is Norwegian and dads is Swedish so thats how i started getting interested in the language. (yeah I am from Minnesota).. But yeah I was just wondering why you do this? are you like a language teacher or something??
JahRed24x 1 year ago
@JahRed24x I am no teacher ^^ It all started because people asked me to do it.. and so I did.. and then more people asked.. and now i cant stop ^^
Crienexzy 1 year ago 5
@Crienexzy your doing a great job. please dont stop. I am learning so much from you. Theres really not much Norwegian learning material out there so thank you !
BenTennison16 6 months ago
Please dont come so close to the camera because then I just want to kiss you. Because you're so cute :)
druvak 1 year ago
Any books in Norsk that are a good read?
ploomit 1 year ago
Good videos. Although I think your accent sounds more English (from England) when you're speaking Norwegian.
flashmob3 1 year ago
@flashmob3 She's Norwegian. It doesn't sound English, it sounds Norwegian.
menglinhai 1 year ago
@menglinhai lol, ok.
flashmob3 11 months ago
@menglinhai She's Norwegian? No shit sherlock. I think her accent sounds english.
flashmob3 10 months ago
@flashmob3 What, when she's speaking Norwegian?
menglinhai 10 months ago
@menglinhai Aye, that or Karin's got a bit of an affected American accent when speaking english!
flashmob3 10 months ago
@flashmob3 Yep she has! 'Youtoobers' instead of 'Youchoobers' for example^^
menglinhai 10 months ago
Wow linguistic evolution in action. Norwegian seems to be doing the same thing English did a few hundred years ago. Getting rid of the articles by just adopting the mail and neuter article as the neuter article. The interesting thing about American English is I think Spanish is starting to re-insert articles. I hear he and she for 'it' objects. Thank for your vids!
TalksWithDirt 1 year ago
@TalksWithDirt Erh, only partly...
Keep in mind that this only applies to some dialects while others change in other ways.
What the end result might be is still something that remains to be seen.
Luredreier 1 year ago
tusen takk karin :) selv om du fortsetter. ;)
TheMissSonrisa 1 year ago
can you read a little poem?
esteban1able 1 year ago
@esteban1able I hope she does read a poem to us :-)
That would have been great ^^
Luredreier 1 year ago
how can to read a little norwegian poem?
esteban1able 1 year ago
ʎɐqə ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎəʞ ɐ ʎnq ı əɯıʇ ʇsɐl əɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
pieman78 1 year ago
@pieman78 lmao
n3rdz0rz 1 year ago
@pieman78 What's wrong with ebay?!
*rushes to buy a new keyboard himself*
Luredreier 1 year ago
TUSSEN TAKK! That helped so much
goodrowj 1 year ago
please u have to explain this point more * et gulere ball ) cuz we know that when we use article et we add T to the adjective
15018022513 1 year ago
@15018022513 "A yellower ball"? That really didn't make much sense :)
locazor 1 year ago
how do i know if the word is male or neutral? and if something is female, then do you use neutral or male? argh this is so difficult =( there are so few languages that don't have any genders or articles at all, my first language (estonian) being one of them ;)
pesuhiir 1 year ago
@pesuhiir You have to learn the gender of each words, like in german. As for the feminine, just use male instead, so you only have 2 genders: neutral and male.
n3rdz0rz 1 year ago
ikke hør på klage fandene. bra at du tok opp adjektivene. det er det vi sliter mest med. (gratulerer med forlovelsen!!)
melionsden 1 year ago
When you started learning English, did you have the option of learning it American vs. British?
Part of me always feels a bit sad when a non-speaker goes American cos it just doesn't sound as good.
mikeyman211 1 year ago
@mikeyman211 British English sounds like ass to me so it's all preference.
N10ess 1 year ago
@N10ess Arse, eh? Actually I realise now how silly my thought was because to know the difference and have an opinion you need to know English.
mikeyman211 1 year ago
"Et hoos"
That's just Scottish, isn't it?
mikeyman211 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
Luredreier 1 year ago
Tusen takk etter det du er undervisning oss. I hope that was said
correctly, but yes I'm so glad you're continuing to make videos.
Robocop80s 1 year ago
@Robocop80s Not to bad.
You said "A thousand thanks after that you are educating us." if you want a direct translation.
The correct way would be "Tusen takk for at du underviser oss."
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Robocop80s Also, it being wrong don't mean that anyone here would have a problem understanding that sentence :-)
We're used to listening to things that's way harder to understand then that... >< ;-)
Luredreier 1 year ago
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klownn 1 year ago
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klownn 1 year ago
Do you think she will ever teach us swear words?
hungvuhungvu 1 year ago 11
@hungvuhungvu Faen, helvete, forpult, hestkuk, ... Banneord, grunnkurs del 1.
ml191172 1 year ago
@hungvuhungvu faen = fuck helvette = hell hestkuk = horsepenis jævel = imp? Small devil satans kuk jævel = son of a bitch/ satans penis imp/devil forbanna helvettes jævla satans dritkjerring frå austlandet som ete kuk drit og hondeskit t frukost som danna dialekta henna = Bloody hell, fucking shitwoman from eastern Norway who eats penis/cock, shit and dogcrap for breakfast which eventually forms the her dialect <3
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Erh, "faen" or "fanden" (slightly archaic bokmål) is another word for the devil.
But it's used in the same contexts that "fuck" would be used in english.
When speaking use the first of those two forms as the second is too archaic to still have any value as a swear word...
"jævel" is another word for the or rather a devil.
"satan" is the personal name of the devil I think, as for "kuk" it's more like "prick" in english I belive...
"forbanna" means angry now, but is made up of->
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier I think I'll rephrase that...
Its another word used for someone that's angry "sint" and but "å banne" means "to curse" and I think the idea of the word is that you're cursed into anger or something like that...
But then I'm not native... *shrugs*
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier The last part of his post is mostly just an insult towards Crienexzy I think...
At any rate I'm going to refrain from translating that...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@hungvuhungvu I can learn you swear words...
pivotair 1 year ago
ich finde diesen film toll. es ist sehr informativ. danke:)
matineesuxxx 1 year ago
@matineesuxxx Es ist nicht :P Viele fehler? Ich spreche nicht gutes Deautsch xD
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
takk !! thx for uploading
Neueregel 1 year ago
nice video! like how you spell it :) thank youu!
TheAntken 1 year ago
I've got a new Norsk grammatikk book and it says the famale forms are optional and it's ok to use the male version.
kosapeti 1 year ago 2
@kosapeti The people that are stuck with the female forms doesnt really get this.
Crienexzy 1 year ago
@Crienexzy But still, what is the "official" status about female forms? I mean most countries having their own languages have some kind of standard even people don't care too much. Yes, I know that there is bokmål and nynorsk (and for sure many non-official but spoken and sometimes even written dialects), but if we speak only about bokmål now, what is the official status on this topic? I only ask this because I am interested in the answer.
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@lgblgblgblgb The official status in general of both Nynorsk and Bokmål is that people have a lot of choice because the labor party tried to merge the languages (allowing versions close to the other one) while other political parties tried to keep them apart ending with a wide specter of permitted forms.
I don't know if that is the case with female forms too, but it wouldn't surprise me...
We don't have any official standard spoken Norwegian although her dialect is almost the de facto standard.
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier Thanks, OK. But I mean about the 'standard written Bokmål" for example, what's the status of female forms in it. Just I am curious, for sure it does not matter too much if people usually "ignore" it in spoken form, but I am interested if it's in the grammar "officially" even people speak totally different way for example, that's all. Maybe my curiosity is totally useless here, but still :)
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@lgblgblgblgb Sorry, I simply don't know.
But that's partly because the official version of bokmål is competing with "Riksmål" a slightly archaic form of bokmål and a language used in several newspapers.
Riksmål is closer to danish and don't have a female form.
Språkrådet is suppose to be the official governing body of the norwegian language but it's competing with the interest groups of various other forms of norwegian: Riksmål, Bokmål, (Sammnorsk), Nynorsk and Landsmål...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@lgblgblgblgb Erh, read your message again.
And I still don't know about the official status of the female form...
But regarding official written rules being ignored and so one.
It's deeper then that.
There's several official and semi-official ways of writing both nynorsk and bokmål and it's a little confusing sometimes.
But I guess you'll just have to wait for Crienexzy to reply...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier Ok, and thanks. The reason I am interested in since I learn Norwegian as a hobby but I have a plan that it's "nice" to have some basic language exam if I spend my time with learning a language. And I really don't know what is the expected during an exam, I guess they are more interested in the "official standard" even if it's not so used ... I really don't know, in Hungary you can take a Norwegian exam, but who knows that they expect ... I should ask them for sure :)
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@Crienexzy Stuck with the female forms? You mean the people who actually speaks the real form?
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@kosapeti But my dear, this off course true. But your reading the Bokmål right? :) Because in the Nynorsk there is a segnificant difference between female and male :P So it would still be very very very useful to speak to the rest of Norway as well, and not only her neighbourhood, don't you agree? ^-^
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx No one speaks bokmål or nynorsk.
They are both constructed written languages.
And since no one speaks anything but their own dialect when talking to someone else in Norway we're used to understanding people talking in a different way.
Not using the female form would be the least of the problems really...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier I am trying to be funny somewhat, but it can be an advantage too: if Norwegian is spoken very different ways, I can do more mistakes since Norwegians are more used to understand "exotic" things than other nations in general. At least when I was in Oslo, there was not so much signs that even my very bad Norwegian cause problems for people there. Hmm maybe immigrants made them to accept quite bad Norwegian too, or it's a more older behaviour because of the divergent dialects/etc?
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@lgblgblgblgb We norwegians become very happy and joyful if immigrants or tourists try to speak norwegian :) And of course we accept that you do not know the language by it's proper form :) But my problem is that THIS young woman, THIS norwegian herself claims that she teaches you Norwegian! For us, yes, her dialect and bokmål seems quite similar, but for many foreign people norwegian is a hard language in general. And if you look at it, her pronounciation of words is different form Bokmål.
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Hmm, my Norwegian is too weak to judge on her work, but I always respected her for her works and that people like me can use their videos to learn. Also because Norwegian is really spoken quite differently by various people, maybe it's ok that everybody can teach their own dialect mostly. Well, at least me I respect people if they try to speak my language, so I guess others can have similar feelings, so even if my Norwegian is terrible still people can think it's nice if I try ...
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx By the way, I always thought that bokmål is "only" a written "standard" and there is no such a thing as "bokmål pronounciation". At least my books states this, saying that commonly taught pronounciation for foreigners is called "standard østnorsk", while bokmål (and nynorsk) only exists as an official method to _write_ Norwegian (actually two differnet "methods"). For sure, I don't wanna argue on this with a Norwegian :) I just say this now, because I know this way from books ...
lgblgblgblgb 1 year ago
@lgblgblgblgb I'm sorry that you've been dragged into this...
In general people are very accepting of different ways of talking.
But there are core areas of both the written forms of the language that's been fighting each other and the third part in the linguistic fight the samnorsk people for ages and that might in some cases be more judgmental...
Personaly I'm a supporter of samnorsk but as you might imagine, a two front war is doomed to fail...
Luredreier 1 year ago
Let me hopefully say my last comment on this. I have no issue at her trying to teach Norwegian to other people. Thumbs up for her.
But! She still says it is the typical Norwegian form, while it is her own dialect. This concludes her to withdraw important nouns, words and even missspell many sounds, which I believe mess a lot up for the "Students". I only want her to mention that this is only a teaching to speak her dialect, in her neighbourhood. Foreigners should not learn
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
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different dialects, but rather the proper, "upper class" written forms, due to it's simplicity. And from there the person may tip over to what dialect he/she wants to learn :) It would be just the same for me to teach him the sounds from Finnmark, the "non exsisting" words of Sunnmøre, or even the cool/weird "R" sound of Bergen. It is indeed Norwegian, but people must learn the written forms first! :D Are you following me? :P
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx I simply don't agree with you on that.
I know three or four (depending a bit) people that have learned the language and some of them learned a dialect first without having any problems with that.
As for written norwegian... *shrugs*
A) Everyone will understand it the way mentioned here and B) when even native people using bokmål outside the østnorsk areas are unsure about weather it's an allowed form or not... *shrugs*
->
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier But of course what way they intend to use the language does play a role too.
If they want to get a job in the Norwegian administration either in the government or at a regional or local level then these videos won't be good enough, it's as simple as that.
But how many of the people in here have that in mind do you think?
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier A) What does "Shrugs" mean?
B) The tourists who come to Norway, would only have to learn the "wrong" thing she is teaching. They would not need any further depht into the language, but still I must say that it would sound aweful for a tourist to try the Finnmark dialect in Sunnmøre, or even the sunnmøre dialect in the Eastern part. The last part is mostly because the eastern part simply do not understand most of us x)
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx C) If you should finf your way to stay in Norway for a longer period, then you should atleast know the written form and the correct pronounciation of words. That is my opinion. You simply can't speak so badly while you live here. Think of it. Norwegian is a hard language (bokmål/nynorsk), dialect are even harder, and are extremly various, and if you mix those into a foreign, it would simply be aweful for the person, to not be understood :/
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Well if you're this sure that this is wrong, then find me some proper source saying that using female forms isn't optional.
Also, this is have nothing to do with being understood or not.
Eastern norway isn't all Oslo you know.
The rest of norway do have dialects too and sociolects and so one and it's not just her particular area that it's common not to use the female form and even if people might use it themselves it's bloody egoistic to expect everyone else to use them too->
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier When it don't have any impact at all on the understanding.
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier And another thing is that common "errors" is really just the evolution of the language.
They're not "wrong" anymore once that many start using it.
Language use is like a election.
Whenever you talk in one particular way you vote for that way.
Now you might not like this way of talking but you have no right to interfering with my voting.
And doing campaigning for one type although it's allowed just like in politics we don't accept much negative campaigning in norwegian politics ->
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier That's one of the major reasons why the conservatives (høyre) have been winning this much terrain since the last election.
In the same way the way I see it, it is just as bad to complain about another's way of teaching the language in that way.
If you disagree, simply make your own video of the subject you disagree with and add it as a video response ><
I don't like the policies of the conservatives, but I would not start personal attacks on them just for that reason... *shrugs*
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx As for "*shrugs*" it's not the same as "shrugs"
The "*" on each side is used to indicate that the content between is an action.
So in other word I'm shrugging.
A shrug is the moving up of both shoulders to indicate that you don't know something.
Anyway, sorry for assuming that you knew this...
I'm used to role playing games online and sort of though that you where in my own age group and an at least similar international culture...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier Ahh :D I love one who can argue and discuss :D Thank you :) First I must admit that i blow a lot of "steam" while I'm here :P I live in Ålesund where they speak bokmål, with only the tone/(tonefall) from sunnmøre left :/ Which is quite sad, and it gets me upset :P To think that the capitol of Sunnmøre, the orgin of Nynorsk is falling over to Bokmål is just weird/sad/disappoiting :/
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx The fact that the female noun can be written in male form is true, but that still does not disclude it from Bokmål completely. I believe it should still be a part of the bokmål :/ But for Nynorsk there is a significant difference between the two forms, and therefor it's important to learn them both :) Will a foreign guy completely understand me if I use the female noun alot? :P This will be short, I got to go :/
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx When it comes to adjectives it really don't matter! ><
In the cases where it does I'm sure that she'll inform us all about it.
And in any case A) being new to norwegian in general don't make people idiots, if they travel outside our capital Oslo they'll eventually learn to deal with dialects just like everyone else in this country, although they might find it a little harder sometimes...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier But in any case, the way that bokmål evolves is not something that nynorsk people really have all that much right to interfering in.
Let's just say that there's a reason why språkrådet er built up in such a way that when something only involves one of the two languages then only the people representing that language need to be involved in making the standard in that written language...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier In any case, "blowing off steam" is not a productive way of dealing with this.
It just cause resentment. (something I should probably have considered myself before bothering with replying to you in the first place, but it was a bit hard when seeing red in the way I did)
In stead of complaining, simply make a video yourself.
Don't expect people that don't use the female forms at all to want to teach them away when they're optional.
It's not like it's her job to make these videos! ><
Luredreier 1 year ago
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@Martinandxxx The fact that the female noun can be written in male form is true, but that still does not disclude it from Bokmål completely. I believe it should still be a part of the bokmål :/ But for Nynorsk there is a significant difference between the two forms, and therefor it's important to learn them both :) Will a foreign guy completely understand me if I use the female noun alot? :P This will be short, I got to go :/
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Neither the people of Ålesund or anyone else speaks bokmål.
The thing you'd usually think of when talking about "bokmål" as a spoken language most of the time is "standard østnorsk" but that is not the same as bokmål, but is just another dialect of our language although with a bit more influence from danish then some of the other ones...
As for it changing the spoken language from dialect to our de facto standard...
That's just people "voting" with their voice...
Do some campaining
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier In stead of complaining when someone try to "campaign" in favor of bokmål against our common enemy, english...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx No one speaks bokmål, it don't exist as a spoken language...
Even in NRK they failed miserably at talking "bokmål" when they tried back in the days...
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier But my dear, you must understand that there are many dialects which are really close to the written form of Nynorsk, including mine, were you might be considered mental if you said "en kake" instead of the real form, "ei kake" Norway is big and wide, please open your window, please open your ears, and see that people in other places of this nation have opinions and important facts besides those of yours.
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx The key word here is "close to".
They're >>not<< nynorsk.
As for considering anyone mental because of the way they speak...
People have fought long and hard in this country for our current linguistic freedom and those of us like me that like that freedom are not about to give it up.
Also, he's not trying to learn nynorsk nor your dialect as far as I'm aware...
But if you feel like making videos like these but for your dialect then feel free to do so.
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier Let me hopefully say my last comment on this. I have no issue at her trying to teach Norwegian to other people. Thumbs up for her.
But! She still says it is the typical Norwegian form, while it is her own dialect. This concludes her to withdraw important nouns, words and even missspell many sounds, which I believe mess a lot up for the "Students". I only want her to mention that this is only a teaching to speak her dialect, in her neighbourhood. Foreigners should not learn
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx different dialects, but rather the proper, "upper class" written forms, due to it's simplicity. And from there the person may tip over to what dialect he/she wants to learn :) It would be just the same for me to teach him the sounds from Finnmark, the "non exsisting" words of Sunnmøre, or even the cool/weird "R" sound of Bergen. It is indeed Norwegian, but people must learn the written forms first! :D Are you following me? :P
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
Det er så underholdene å se att folk kommenterer om sånne ting.... :D
pivotair 1 year ago
@pivotair Det er som regel bare norske som slenger dritt.
Crienexzy 1 year ago
@Crienexzy Nei, jeg tenkta sånne barneskole grammatik ting som folk sier ;)
pivotair 1 year ago
@Crienexzy Eg formodar du reffererar til meg? :P Ja, eg kan vere veldig provoserande og blir veldig hissa opp av slike diskusjonar. :P Men alt i alt, så har eg faktisk rett! <3 sjølv om i nokre situasjonar kan vere litt overdramastisk ^_^
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@pivotair Fullstendig enig :D Og det er veldig morsomt når innehaveren av videoen lærer feil til sine elever ^-^ En lærerinne burde faktisk undervise sine elever riktig...
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Vi har ikke et standardisert muntlig språk i dette landet, og hvis du ikke liker videoene så foreslår jeg at du lager noen selv i stedenfor å klage på andres arbeid...
F. eks. så kan du lage en video kommentar til denne videoen hvor du lærerbort det du mener er riktig.
Luredreier 1 year ago
Oh and one more:
* Adjectives on -t don't get a second t in the 3rd prs. sing. e.g.: et kort liv
And that's basicly all I know of. Hope it'll be of some use. :)
rapesomeface 1 year ago
Some exceptions are:
* Adjectives ending on -ig
* Most adjectives ending on -sk (and *all* nationalities)
* Adjectives ending on -el, -en and -er loose their first e if an e-ending follows, e.g. (indefinite -> definite): gammel -> gamle sulten -> sultne vakker -> vakre
* blå, grå and ny get a -tt ending in the 3rd prs. sing. blå and grå don't get an ending in the plural, ny becomes nye
* liten: en liten kopp, ei lita kake, et lite troll, små kopper, små kaker, små troll
rapesomeface 1 year ago 9
@rapesomeface THANK YOU! EVERYONE READ THIS!!!
Crienexzy 1 year ago
But it is indeed IMPORTANT in the Norwegian language to learn the female nouns! Unless you want to visit exactly h e r neighbourhood...
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx The way of the adjectives is the same as the male, so in this it doesnt really matter.
Crienexzy 1 year ago
@Crienexzy No, Male: en gutt, gutt -en gutt- er, gutt -ene Female: ei, mark the EI jente, jent -a, jent -er, jentene Your dialect says the "jenta" as "jentEN" Why can''t you just tell them that you are teaching them neither bokmål nor nynorsk but rather your own dialect which is only used in the small eastern part of Norway?? You know that most of the country despite you for your lack of the female form.
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx You should probably google up the word "adjective" and see what it means.
rapesomeface 1 year ago
@rapesomeface I'm not talking about the bleedin adjectives, but rather the nouns!...
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx Gutt- og jente er ikke adjektiv kjære. og i ADJEKTIV spiller det ikke stor rolle.
Jeg informerer de om at dette KUN er østlandsdialekt, så ikke kom her å tro du vet noe om hva jeg driver med. Gå heller å les på youtube profilen.
Crienexzy 1 year ago
@Crienexzy Greit det kjære. But I'm talking about NOUNS, were it DOES matter ^-^
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx
Well actually in most of "teach yourslf Norwegian" books they mention that it is not so common anymore to use feminine gender. And for the beginners it is less confusing to learn the new language.
kristytamo 1 year ago
@kristytamo Well actually, you h a v e only read the bokmål ones ^-^ The Nynorsk is different, and for a common norwegian it would still sound weird to say "en bok".. Yea yea, for the beginners, but it's hard to re-learn it when it's actually learned wrong. :/ Just sayin.
Martinandxxx 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx I live in Trondheim and have done so for a majority of my life.
As far as I'm concerned it's not any weirder then not having apocope in your dialect... *shrugs*
Each to their own.
Remember that the world is bigger then the core areas of Nynorsk. ;-)
Don't mean that there's anything wrong with nynorsk, but there's nothing wrong with not using it or the dialects associated with it either. *shrugs*
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Martinandxxx A) You'll be understood anywhere regardless of where in the country your language originates.
B)Østnorsk er ikke noe mere mindreverdig en vestnorsk eller nordnorsk, det er bare enda en gruppe med dialekter som tildels har like gammelt opphav. (tror ikke at din dialekt ikke har endret seg ei heller at østlendinger bare snakker dansk)
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier Blasted...
I switched from english to norwegian in the middle of the post... ><
The second part is:
"B)Østnorsk (east norwegian) is not any more inferior then vestnorsk (west norwegian) or nordnorsk (north norwegian), it is only another group with dialects that in part have just as old an origin."
Luredreier 1 year ago
@Luredreier ->
And then I wrote "tror" = "belive" although I intended to use "Tro" in this context meaning "think"
And what I wrote was "Think not that your dialect haven't changed or that people from eastern norway only talk danish
Luredreier 1 year ago