Aikibudo Club Kibukan 3, Jean Prieur

[vorhees]

dans un combat de rue personne ne donne son bras comme ca!!!

j'ai jamais cru a l'efficacité du aikido ou judo

selon moi pour la rue y as rien de mieux que krav maga-senshido-jeet kune do-thai boxing-boxe ceci est mon humble oppinion mais je crois que c'est méthodes de combats prépare mieux a la réalité de la rue!!

[valprval]

@vorhees C'est parce que tu l'a jamais vu se battre pour vrai...Crois moi il est prêt a se faire attaquer n'importe quand!

[SuperFreeze16]

Du grand art !

[TheCylrin]

you aiki-do people are so silly....long live aiki-jujutsu and not his opponent...hehehe

[TheRogueMonk]

hen do you think that its a lie that morihei ueshiba didnt want to at one point to teach weponary also even in his videos morihei is the most abstract aikidoka i have seen.. the closest i come to morihei today is seichiro endo .. morihei barely touched his opponents and rightfully so.. because its a soft art and its a art of selfelessness in the way of giving respect to uke .

[GeneralDelta]

It's interesting how much closer this is to Daito-ryu than mainstream Aikido.

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta yes because it is.. lol .. its one of hte earlier arts morihei ueshiba made before making iakido

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta first aikinomichi, then aikibudo , then was aikido.. go search it.. dont let anyone tell you anything else..

[GeneralDelta]

@TheRogueMonk I am very familiar with the Daito-ryu > Aikibudo > Aikido linage... Though I have not heard of Aiki no Michi... I think Aikibudo was O'Sensei's way of disavowing Daito-ryu, using the "budo" in a generic term. Though it is interesting he eventually settled on Aikido, though Aikido is clearly an Aikijujitsu, and not a Aiki no jitsu form. This shows the clear difference in Ueshiba's views of Aiki verses Takeda's Daito-ryu tradition.

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta aiki no michi litterally means aikido.. i think it was.. aiki .no=the =mici =way..then it was aikibudo i think and at last aikido.

I am happy that aikido is not too much religious it would be difficult to like because if you dont like to be in a religious context

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk they say that morihei was influeced by some shinto like religion

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta i do not experience that morihei wanted to separate himself from daito ruy .. he could have easily changed the name of his art completely but he did not, in fact i believe he saw aikido or his arts just as a new translation of daito ruy and not a changed daito ruy, it was a new way of learning and doing principals that already exist within both daito and aikido.

aikido in its core still is very much heavily influenced by daito ruy .. it is not hard to see.. if you want to.

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta furthermore , Ueshiba studied supposedly many arts before he came to daito ruy but if he did not like daito ruy and thought his way was better then today we would have found more tecniques based on other arts which we completely and utterly dont ( i bleive) and infact there is LESS techniques in aikido its more "clean" and again most of the techniques there are daito ruy related and obviously so.. and not from his other arts .. there is no hint at other martial arts in aikido to me

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk to me simply aikido is the way of aiki.. which to me again my personal belief is it is the aiki od daito ruy aikijujutsu fused with the WAY instead OF THE jutsu .. the way beaing the principals and focus on principals of aikijujutsu as the backbone of the art .. and therefore it is the way of aikido and not hte technique of aiki-- it is to me not seperate it is just another composition and expression of daito ruy aikijujutsu that would seem more or less advnaced depending on who cz

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk simply without aikijujutsu there would be no aikido .. without aikibudo there would not be aikido .. the one gives birth to the other but are related.

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta its influenced by yagu ruy , diato ruy aikijujutsu.. morihei ueshiba had high grade in diato ruy .. the highest current at his time that existed.

aikido is a family of daito ruy and so is the other ones under it or before it

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk just one correction: Ueshiba Morihei never reached the menkyo kaiden (highest level) in Daito-Ryu, he just obtained a "kyôju dairi" mokuroku from Takeda, a license that only hallowed him to teach the basic program of the school. The rest of your message it´s ok.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza at his time that was the highest rank i red.. there was no higher before that... and if there was he would have gotten it, he loved martial arts why would he simply stop , he must have gotten the highest rank and then from "boredome" chose to make something out of it furthering the art

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk Hisa Takuma and Takeda Tokimune reach the menkyo kaiden, they were Takeda´s highest level deshis and Ueshiba was a brilliant one, but never the best, it´s an historical fact, not an opinion. His relationship with Takeda Sogaku went from good to bad and he started to follow the teachments of Deguchi Onisaburo in order to become his new budo concept true, but that never meant he was a master in daito-ryu, he simply studied and used it to making the basics of his "Ueshiba Aiki-Budo".

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza you just said he was brilliant.. and how can tha not be a master... he had to be a master if hewent arround teaching with takeda...

well , i cat simpl accept wha you say.. i accumulate my own mpressions and truths...

i still stand with what i said before.. i think aikido is too heavily inflcuenced by takedas teachings too much so to even agree with anyone that morihei was supposed to distract or disturb takedas influence in himself...

and nowhere has osensei even discussed takeada

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk atleast not in the many many sources of media books and things i have red that are about aikido... not one time did it give a downsizing or word about takeda.. in almost all venues i saw aikido takeda was told to be moriheis teacher and the art that morihei really loved and stuck with.

I dont know where you guys have red that osensei was not a master of daito and that he disliked daito .. poitics really are always shady and gray zone.. even if he had a bad relationship with takeda

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk it does not mean he disliked daito ruy aikijujutsu..the truth by seing aikido speaks for itself..

i also at the same time never experienced aikido to be MORE or MORE religious or esoteric then any other martial art .. its just the same... i never experienced that aikido OR morihei trying to tell people what god or ways to believe in.. not more hten other arts.

i am also pretty sure most japanese martial arts have same cultural philosophy more or less...

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk i believe that all this and that politics mena nothing compared to what you see and what you get is infact not a contradiction to aikijujutsu... i have really tried to find that they say aikijujutsu is more violent and stiff but so can aikido be.. and i stick to my view that aikido is just another simplified expression of aikijujutsu.. its clearly family.

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk AND therefore if morihei was not good enough and not a master he would never have been able to make aikido because aikido heavily depends on masterful principals that i even though never did daito know almost without a doubt that the principals exist also in diato and originates from that point..

watching some aikijujutsu students from japan playing arround looked exactly like aikido .. cuz they were doing games with principals of your art.

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk In fact, Im not discussing what you are talking about, haha, Im totally agree with your sentence: Ueshiba Morihei´s aikido truly was a personal evolution of Takeda Sogaku´s aikijujutsu, BUT, I did only made a correction in, that another truly fact: he was NOT a master in daito ryu, maybe, and I believe in so, a master in his own point of view and of many people that followed him ones, but, personally, Mochizuki Minoru was a better budoka in terms of accumulated kwnoledge and skills

[Aikinowaza]

@Aikinowaza Thats an example, because, in my opinion, there are a lot of myths and overestimated things around O Sensei´s shape, and through the years, I became the conclusion that he was very very misanderstood and, by the way, modern aikido will never come to seem as originally it was thought, and truly was: another bujutsu system as all the another ones.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza you must not reply to your own post , i realized it wont appear on my site :( i have done this mistake so much :(

yes i agree .

but i did not understand what you were talking about in the end of the answer here was confusing

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk er...I think you have to read my posts inverse order :) or maybe I have explained so bad xD

I want to mean basically the same as you: daito ryu and aikido are two very related and "look as well" things. It´s true that actually most of daito ryu schools imitate in a very shameless way aikido´s forms but that is a tergiversation from commercial intentions or another kind, anyway, modern daito ryu´s sokes are doing it bad, as well as most aikido´s shihans...thats my opinion

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza you already estabilished that morihei did not have the highest rank and i do not dissagree with you of course moritaka ueshiba (his real name) could not forever remain a highest ranking..

what i just thought was reasonable was that morihei (moritaka) prob loved aikijujutsu.. i just have this impression.. and that he did not make much atleast its not evident to people like me that he tried to make an effort to say "hey aikijujutsu is not good aikido is better" i have no such view.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza personally i see that there is alot ot learn from aikijujutsu if you are aikidoka .. aikido often lack the traditional posture which i think aikidoka should try to instill back into aikido.. and i think aikido can teach aikijujutsudokas a new way of looking at their older and more traditional techniques ..

i am very positive that if one studies both arts one will complete the one and the other much more because they are studies into each other..

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk some people i think missunderstand aikido and make it completely into this art void of any structure and void of any posture or mental posture and attitude.. i do not think this is a good aikido.. good aikido should focus on the older principals if anything because we already have "simple" so to say criteria so the rest of the time and focus shoudl have been used to achieve mental and physical posture and attitude , because that is what makes aikido aikido not the techniques alone

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk (continues) In the other hand, in their roots, both schools (Ueshiba´s and Takeda´s) are very very similar too. I have practice aikido and aikijujutsu from the yoseikan´s school, and its very surprising how, in fact, the technnical curriculum in both are identical, with some lightly variations. In my opinion, aikido should ever be almost the SAME thing as aikijujutsu, with this little variations, and any aiki-practitioner must know that´s no matter how to name it, the art is in.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza well i have not studiet aikijujutsu but i see some videos and i see they have more offensive techniques fuller curiculum .. punches strikes.. even gymnastics .. the videos i see on aikijujutsu is much more full of weaponary dissarm and seremonial practice...

some aikido is very good some is pretty lousy.. and a new type of aikido called real aikido which is okay for being "self deffence" i dont like the idea to call it " real" which almost points to the other aikidoes to be fake

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza what you have often is aikido practitioners trying to be hard and though completely ruining the art.. then you suddenly see some aikibudo or aikijujutsu videso whwere they are soft and nice.. and i you have to wonder who really does aikido.

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk well, thats a simple matter of investigation. Reading to Stanley Pranin, Meik Koss, Peter Goldsbury or some other at the same time aikido shihans and journalists can make you see things clearly. With that investigation, soon you can realise that for example iwama ryu aikido and daito ryu aikijujutsu are very similar, and both includes striking and offensive forms in their curriculums. Modern aikido its an Kisshomaru Ueshiba enterprise, very far from his father ideas.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza then do you think that its a lie that morihei ueshiba didnt want to at one point to teach weponary also even in his videos morihei is the most abstract aikidoka i have seen.. the closest i come to morihei today is seichiro endo .. morihei barely touched his opponents and rightfully so.. because its a soft art and its a art of selfelessness in the way of giving respect to uke .

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk well then, I invite you to read the article from Stanley Pranin that explain all about the true origin of that videos and claim to put Ueshiba´s aikido in the correct corner. And yes, it is, he teach weapons as a basic requirement, but, sorry, Endo Sensei is far far away from the aikido I understand O Sensei did.

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza no its not.. its aikido .. he only emphesizes the things differently its still same aikido as any other aikido... do you think endo has his own versionof aikido.. thats not true.

besides man i cant care i know enough about history to not care about names.. and that people can lie and use politics.. i think the only right thing to do is watch aikijujutsu, aikibudo and aikido and see what really has evolved and become better and what can we learn i still think aikido today i scomplete

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk no, in first post I didnt write about Endo´s aikido, I was aiming at the video "aikibudo" xDDD (damn youtube hehe).

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza you know there is something very uggly about a beautiful person who is mean and integrity less in her or his personality... and likewise there is osmething very strange and perhaps uggly about aikido when its done in wrong intent ..

somewhere when the war period ended and there was no war maybe people had to look finally inside to the battle within that where even the samurais now had a new place to reach excellence and in that place not out of superstition but ou tof discimpine

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk in end of the day that is aiiki-DO the battle for not the physical jutsu only but mostly maybe most importantly the inner budo .. teh war against destruction and the quest for real love.. real AI.

sometimes its as if i am alone in believing that ai = love in morheis eyes, a man who wanted to immitate god or the creator

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk there is no power stronger then love

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza as i said in todays aikido we have time to learn other things that are not really available inside a sheet of paper.. its inside us and the mental developement deffinetly is real and true.. i am a testiment to that.. but of course if you have a dojo who disregard that side of developement then there in that place aikido does not exist. plain and simple. aikido is self development first.. you change yourself not the uke

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk thats very complex to make an empirical explanation. some things "yes" but anothers..."not". As I said: investigation, reading, and feeling, not only the last thing xDDD

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza while your readnig i am living.. it is enough of what we have to learn its time to do it.

i already know what i need to do or want to need to do to improve myself and aikido is no exception to that help

[TheRogueMonk]

@TheRogueMonk and i am sure you know too. why keep waiting and searching for some ultimate answer to our questions..

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza funny thing i dont think moriteru ueshiba even does what his father did .. i seem to think aikiai is odd.

only person i think does aikiai not oddly was christian tissier.. he is aikiai right?

aikido is all over the place in other words .

[TheRogueMonk]

@Aikinowaza what you see in this video is good aikido! but its not aikido... it is round, circular, smooth .. soft and no use of muscle! muscle use in aikido is like poison in water

[Aikinowaza]

@TheRogueMonk hahaha, thats not "literally" true aikido, its an interpretation of aiki-concepts created by Alain Floquet sensei, one of Mochizuki Minoru´s students, mixed with tenshin-shoden katori shinto-ryu weaponry. But another correction, my friend: In my opinion, its necessary to first use muscles in aiki, then you can "free" your mind from using them and start to work only with your body structure, making movements soft and "smart".

[TheRogueMonk]

@GeneralDelta i am not sure but i think aikido is the purest meaning the one that is more principal and emtpy hand techniques and less wepons .. i am ont exactly sure of this but sometime morihei stopped wanting to teach weapons too.. i am not sure but the more back in time you go the more like daitoruy or older marital arts it gets ..

[bylokonnor]

This is aikibudo, not aikido. Don't mix things up. If you don't like it, the don't watch it. But don't take it upon yourself to put other people off just because it is different to what you do.

[DamirJamalHakeem]

Заебись!!))

[rustik13]

BAD. first or second QIU. - maybee 1st dan... not more.

[zoulou360]

Vidéo très attrayant!

[valprval]

Wow! Vidéo très dynamique et impressionnant. De plus je trouve la musique très entrainante, sa donne le gout de sauter sur un tatami et faire de l'aiki avec vous!! :)

[Kuritzu]

really good

[kiziru]

very nice...why not but this is half ninjutsu half aikido but still...not bad!!! nice...

[swouf]

J'avoue avoir été surprise par le choix de musique qui fait très différent des choix musicaux japonais de d'habitude ;)

Mais c'est excellent les plans de vue constamment en mouvement avec cette musique dynamique!

Bravo

[22kage]

Super les boys !! en plus la musique est cool !