Greg Bahnsen - Worldviews in Conflict (part 6)

[ray7685]

Thanks for putting up all these Bahnsen videos.

[Refutingnonsense]

@SecretTacoNinja I would say you are suppressing the truth. You say there is no evidence because the alternative is to say the evidence is there and the proble is YOU. Pretty simple

[AuxentiusZ]

It's interesting that atheists, agnostics, and others fling insults and ask why ratings are disabled. From this forum alone, one can note the truth in this series, namely that the people of God and the people of the devil are inherently enemies.

[bengphoenix]

That's correct. God is everywhere, and at all times revealing Himself. You deny this because you want to do things your own way. But, as Bahnsen says, there is day coming when God will judge all people according to their works. Proceed with your rebellion at your own risk. Or, if you want to live, freely turn to Him in sincere repentance and faith in the Lord Christ Jesus.

[Ktronica]

Interesting

[Ranaynme]

Whether you agree with this gentleman's position or not he certainly presented it with a great deal of clarity. So often the debates between believers and non believers become so convoluted that there is no resolution when all is said and done.

[TheLilithChronicles]

Very well given.

[kyebean]

When someone disables ratings, it strongly suggests, that they know they're in the wrong, or at least very unpopular. It shows that they believe they have a better chance of spreading their video if people aren't allowed give their opinion of it. Very telling. Censorship is not a valid form of argument.

[funhistory]

Dear kyebean, could you please repeat that statement you made about your opinion & censorship not being not a valid form of argument. Apparently the boogiemen must've censored the rationale section of your argument, because I didn't see it written by you anywhere. Apparently if you don't have a little button of red stars to click, you've been censored. Oh horror! Without 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 stars to express your thoughts, you're completely lost! Boo hoo hoo! LOL indeed!

[kyebean]

disabled ratings are not a big deal and that's not censorship by itself, but ratings are the primary way for users to give feedback as to whether a video is valuable, interesting, worthwhile etc. and affect it's exposure. So you have to wonder why any intellectually honest uploader who believed in the value of what they were uploading would take the step to disable ratings.

[funhistory]

Well, I apologize for speaking sarcastically to you, kyebean. You do sound rational & genuine in your reply, & I thank you for that. Personally, I think the star ratings are worthless. The real test of whether a video is, as you say, "valuable, interesting, worthwhile" to the general masses of public, is the number of times it's been viewed. If it meets those 3 criteria, it will have thousands of views, because people will compell their friends (& enemies in some cases) to spend the time.

[funhistory]

(I was cut off by the character-count limit.) The other point I wanted to make was that obviously there are some videos that have millions of views (e.g. Britney Spears), while Dr. Bahnsen's generally only have thousands. This does not mean that those videos are actually more valuable, interesting, worthwhile, but that they're those qualities to more people (with poor taste, in the case of Britney Spears).

[kyebean]

That's exactly why ratings can be useful. So why would the uploader take the step to disable them? The only reason I can see is that they believe the video will be unpopular and recieve a low rating. To me that shows that they don't believe in their own content. If they believed it was true and valuable they would let it stand on its own merits and not care whether it had a low rating. To me, it suggests an attitude of pushing propaganda regardless of whether they or anyone else believes it.

[funhistory]

No, you're being illogical again, my friend. The video stands on its own merits, & not on what people think of it. If someone were afraid of being unpopular, they'd disable these comments. The fact that they enabled them shows they're confident in the content, & don't care about its popularity. If you don't get anything else about Christianity, please know that it's not a popularity contest; it's about preaching what you believe to be true, & being able to withstand criticism & persecution.

[kyebean]

Interesting that u mention Christianity because I've found that the vast majority of videos with comments and/or ratings disabled are preaching that very religion. Jesus did say thou shalt not give thy opinion of the work of others. Personally I'd say giving feedback on Youtube is right up there with cursing your parents, or putting your phallus in a butt, so let's form a posse and pulverize all their skulls as the good book demands, that would be a great way to withstand persecution.

[funhistory]

I'm not interested in responding to, or obligated to respond to, completely nonsensical remarks such as your last one. I'm content with the points I made earlier about censorship vs. disabled ratings. Your last comment is simply too far off the beaten path of logic.

[bedajo28]

@kyebean As funhistory said Christianity is not a popularity contest so it doesn't matter if it is popular or not as long as the truth is proclaimed (or propoganda as you say it is). However, what difference does it make to you if that is the reason why they disabled the ratings or not. It is just survival of the fittest on youtube. Making sure you get your point across and increasing the probability of survival and reproduction in your community/world.

[kyebean]

@bedajo28 you don't think it means anything that your best chance of "making sure you get your point across and increasing probability of survival" is to limit feedback and communication among consumers? This is so obvious, I feel sorry for you that u don't get it. Corporations have been doing this forever to cover up flaws in their products. Good products benefit from more communication among users, bad products suffer. This producer is consistently, intentionally limiting communication.

[bedajo28]

@kyebean I did not say that is what I believe and you are right I do not believe it. However, my point was what difference does it make to you, given your worldview if that is the purpose of disabling the ratings? Why should it bother you? Why should corporations bother you, or the government, or anyone else for that matter when they do anything that is supposedly "wrong"?

[kyebean]

@bedajo28 I care because, if this video had 2,000 dislikes people might think twice about accepting the bullshit contained within. Beliefs inform actions and even if one person's false beliefs do not cause them to do harm, they may be wasting potential and spreading those false beliefs to others who could be much more dangerous with them. I'd be happy to give you a detailed explanation of what "wrong" means to me, but we maybe able to get there quicker if u tell me what it means to you first.

[bedajo28]

@bedajo28 "In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, and other people are going to get lucky; and you won't find any rhyme or reason to it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at the bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good. Nothing but blind pitiless indifference. DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is, and we dance to its music."

[kyebean]

@bedajo28 Dawkins is saying there is chance and suffering in this universe and they do not follow some anthropomorphic sense of justice that we are familiar with in our societies. You would expect the opposite if an omnipotent, benevolent deity was taking care of everything. "at bottom" is the qualifier you're missing, he's not saying those things don't exist, he's saying they are not inherent in the universe, but rather constructs of human society.

[kyebean]

"basic training for defending the faith" Yeeeahh, that's someone you should listen to for an objective exploration of truth. LOL

[ScottyVOR]

Good video series, particularly this and the "myth of neutrality".

[vernuf]

So many logical fallacies.

[hannahmontanarox3409]

lovely!

[Tayleeh]

Great video!!!! I really appreciated it.

[GuidSaucy]

Arguing "world views" might be fun etc. etc. et al., but eventually it goes beyond "world view" because Jesus is the truth, not just an opinion. Yes, some might even venture we should avoid arguing with the unsaved, merely present the Gospel and move on, but I don't know if there isn't room for some discussion; however, it would not surprise me if there weren't any.

:)

[TheHonestTheist]

I think people want answers and scripture commands us to "give a reason for the hope that is in us"

There are those that are dedicated atheists I will grant you that. But to say that all we should do is preach the gospel and leave, is to view anyone who needs anything more as a dedicated atheist, which is completely wrong.

[AnnaAgainstAtheists]

holdontoyourwig

Its now time to see reality

___

God is the reality which gives meaning and sense to our lives.

[dent3138]

You shouldnt be so condescending...

Macro-Evolution (above species level) doesnt even qualify as a theory. Scientific theories require observable,empirical and measureable phenomena.

How is Evolution any of these. Evolution is a worldview.

Somones been watching too much tv.

[holdontoyourwig]

So you wouldn't concede that modern medicine had allowed us to evolve. Evolution occurs when the environment dictates it. We have changed the environment and that allows those changes to occur.The environment thousands of years ago in some far off land has nothing to do with us today. Hence people are different all over the world.

Are you over 18 or am i talking to a child. You really need to go to school little one.

[holdontoyourwig]

All evolution is micro evolution if you look at it with reason. Every generation has the slightest of changes.Over millions of years the changes are so slight that we don't see them. Go back only a few hundred years and you will see our ancestors were small in comparison to us. We would be giants in their day. Go back further and you will see even more changes. Its not hard to see the truth .

Religion is a crude attempt to answer the mysteries of the past. Its now time to see reality.

[holdontoyourwig]

I am no expert on the subject...however just by watching the relevant documentaries you can begin to understand evolution.

No scientist can claim that god doe not exist but they can challenge the claims that religion makes with reference to the age of the earth for example.

Your bible claims the earth is 6,000 years old(give or take). Scientific analysis shows otherwise. Non of the sciences go along with the bible on that one.

Religion is being pushed further and further into a corner.

[holdontoyourwig]

Surely science would only back up the claims of the Christian religion if it were true. The fact that science goes against your belief system must tell you something about what you hold true.You are quite happy to doubt the claims of the Romans or the Egyptians as false. I would back you up on that by showing that their claims were against scientific reason and fact.Same with the Greeks or Aztecs. When its your turn to say "oops we got it wrong" its another matter.

[a5dr3]

absurd. The method endorsed by modern evolutionists is gene mutation. Lamarckianism was abandoned a long, long time ago. -People were shorter in recent history for the same reason they lived much shorter lives. They had terrible overall nutrition and died young of the rampant diseases and medical disorders we now have cures for. If your theories were correct the first humans that emerged hundreds of thousands of years ago would have had to be less than a millimeter tall and there wouldn't be

[a5dr3]

ancient skeletons all over the world much taller than our average height today. All this debate over evolution is by the way, totally irrelevant to the issues Bahnsen is raising that are going totally over your head. There are plenty of presuppositional Christians that believe in evolution. Reading your other comments you are so behind in understanding what the debate is even about I don't know where to start. -Stop arguing and start listening. You don't know what you are talking about

[holdontoyourwig]

1. these are his beliefs and not the view of the whole of christianity.

2. i watch these crack pot videos to know what im up against.

3. religion IS pushed down our throats by many ways....not just you tube.

4. i find the truth in science and not in superstitious nonsense. there are too many gods for them all to be true. you simply pick the one you decide is the right one for your needs. not to mention your culture has a lot to do with it.

[corneliuscranechase]

1. your post reflects your beliefs and not the view of all.

2. i read these crackpot posts to know what i'm up against.

3. your atheist beliefs ARE pushed down our throats by many ways.

4 you've simply picked a belief that is right for your needs, not to mention your culture has a lot to do with your beliefs.

[holdontoyourwig]

I simply picked to believe in the truth and not fairy tales.

[1974freud]

Poory reasoned, try again!

[holdontoyourwig]

Why is it poor reasoning to ask the question and get a answer.

Christians simply dont answer the questions. they quote the bible. Thats not answering anything....thats just being a parrot. Knowing your bible isnt proof of its validity.

[1974freud]

Sorry, my reply was meant for the comment above yours! To "corneliuscraneshase".

[apparrattus]

I would suggest you reading/listening to some of Bahnsen's other materials where he fleshes out his argument a little more. Here I think he is just showing an introduction to his fundamental philosophical framework. In general he argues that any knowledge is subject to abstract assumptions that we hold and that this argument about God/No God should be analyzed on that level. Science is not exempt from presuppositions, assumptions, and or biases, and how we make sense of facts has to do with this

[holdontoyourwig]

Science is not a BELIEF. Its based solely on evidence and experiment.

[a5dr3]

you are ignorant wig. Why promulgate your vaccuous prejudice? Until you have some idea of what your talking about at least have the integrity to silently consider yourself an open minded agnostic.

[holdontoyourwig]

I am open minded. I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory or that there could be many more universes. There are other possibilities....however don't for one minute expect me to fall for the God in heaven bullshit. Are you open minded to the fact that Ra or Zeus or Apollo might be the real God ? I think not. Who is the open minded one eh ?

[fiercegallantry]

Dr. Kuhn, your office is calling.

[holdontoyourwig]

Are you referring to Dr Gustav Kuhn of Durham university. Ha Ha i live only a few miles from Durham. Small world.I will have to read up on his work. Sounds interesting.

[fiercegallantry]

No. The late Thomas Kuhn. His refutation of the positivist histroiography of science produce a paradigm shift among historians of science.

He also coined the term "paradigm shift."

[TheMasterElite]

Science is not a belief, but Evolution is...

Evolution cannot be observed, tested, or repeated...therefore it cannot be science, therefore Evolution is a faith...

In the end it is a conflict between beliefs, and both sides have different ways of interpretting evidence.

If Evolution was true, we wouldn't exist...how can anything evolve if it needs all the parts at once?

Genetics are yet another thing. One cannot add Genetic information, only subtract, which yields NEGATIVE results...

[holdontoyourwig]

What can i say....except read some science books. All the evidence of evolution is there for us all to see from the fossil records to modern DNA finger printing.

Religion offers thousands of gods who created the universe in thousands of different ways. Each god is true only if you happen to believe in that particular one. How scientific is that ?

[TheMasterElite]

Fossil records? Perhaps you are refering to the lack of any transitional skeletons? None have been found. The many ape-to-man skeletons that have been found turned out to be either incorrect anatomy, speculation, or even completely different animal than expected [One turned out to be a part of a pig].

DNA can't prove that Evolution is true, because DNA cannot have any information added. How can losing information make a single celled organism into a multicell organism? It can't.

[holdontoyourwig]

You must be reading creation science books if you think there are no transitional fossils. That or very very old science books (19th Century)

Darwin's finches are proof enough that creatures can change and adapt to their surrounding in only a few generations. DNA does not need to increase to alter structure it only needs to alter its pattern.

[TheMasterElite]

Not neccessarily true,

Darwin's finches were proof of MICROEVOLUTION. Change on a small scale. As a Christian, I can believe this, and say this IS a theory, because it is proven by thorough extensive testing over many, many years.

The other end of the spectrum, however, the Hypothesis of Macroevolution, the idea that "eventually" said structures can change said animals into other types of animal is false.

...what transitional fossils are you referencing?

[1974freud]

Well said!

[CRHE]

Nice catch, danjoeblue.

[holdontoyourwig]

Thats right ...you cant get away from god...........you keep pushing all that shit down our throats.

[danjoeblue]

WHAT?! You decide to get on youtube and watch Christians speak about their beliefs and then complain about them pushing things down your throat. YOU DECIDED TO WATCH THIS! How is that pushing it down your throat? You pushed it down your own throat by CHOOSING to watch this and then vomited it back up. You just manifested that what he says is true! WOW!

[xychr0]

roflcopter - yeah, we glued your eyes to the computer and made you watch this specific clip.

Truth is this, and I know, having been there: it feels like this is being pushed onto you because you are being convicted by your own conscience.

Good luck and God Bless. - Xy