White Horse Inn- Roman Catholics and Justification Part 1

[TheHappyKuffar]

Remember Jesus' words, eyebimbo... He that is called least on earth shall be called greatest in the kingdom of Heaven.

[TheHappyKuffar]

Conclusion: catchzz/wallo is demon possessed... carries no spine in his back, and can't even step up with any justification for his false accusations against me or anyone else. Turn with me to Revelation 12:10

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER OF OUR BRETHREN is cast down which accused them before our God day and night."

^^That's you right there.. you and Satan. :)

[eyewallo2]

You know nothing of Christianity. Its pretty clear any debater could wipe the floor with you.

Goodbye

[TheHappyKuffar]

"The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things" Psalm 12:3

Calm your hype down, my friend. :)

We all know where proud boasters go...

[TheHappyKuffar]

eyewallo2 = hypocrite, liar, deceiver, false accuser, and extremely sensitive

^^You have all the characteristics of Satan.

[catchzz]

HAHAH you cant answer the question. And you call me the hypocrite. You sit there and call me names bc I didnt answer your faith question. YOU GAVE NO BIBLE references. What the hell are you?

[TheHappyKuffar]

You gave no biblical reference to your answer either so pipe down and take some antidepressant pills, you angry little devil. :)

[TheHappyKuffar]

What am I? What are you? What's your name demon, so I can drive you back into the herd of swine. Leave this poor soul of catchzz's alone, demon. I command you in His name, depart from him and torment him no more.

[jesujoyofmansdesirin]

Eyewallo and TheHappyKuffar, stop it both of you

[eyewallo2]

Hey its nothing more than having to show someone that is full of hate what its like to take a taste of their own medicine. This person is obviously full of Satan as you can so easily see. Let this individual spew their hatred for they too have to face God on judgement day. God bless

[TheHappyKuffar]

Oh, so I'm full of hate because eyewallo is angry at the fact that I asked him a couple question that he couldn't even answer? You're talking out of your butt again. If I'm full of Satan then you have Belial, Lucifer, Leviathan, Judas, Nero, Domitian, Lilith, and Pazuzu all over your skin, hypocrite. LOL. Show me where in any of my comments did I spout hatred? From this criteria, you've been critiquing me with the same level of communication by calling me a coward and a little girl.

[TheHappyKuffar]

Grow a spine, hypocrite, or face the consequences on judgment day. :)

[TheHappyKuffar]

Judging you off of your gender? Hah, now you're talking out of your butt. You're just too desperate to change the subject over a question you can't even answer. Give me a break.

[eyewallo2]

Faith is quite the loaded question, but it is believeing with your whole heart, mind, and soul in the Triune God. Now there is no way possible on youtube this can be completely defined. What to you is the pillar and foundation of truth. Or will you ignore that question like a judgemental nobrained coward?

[TheHappyKuffar]

Faith is the weightier of all the laws along with justice and mercy. Puissant faith is a virtue that justifies an individual before the sight on God, the one virtue that pleases the Most High as He was also appeased by Abraham's actions before the altar when he was about to sacrifice his son Isaac. Faith is strength, confidence, and seed of refuge that comes from the Lord and not from flesh.

Ouch. A nobrained coward... thanks you for complimenting. :)

[eyewallo2]

I noticed you didnt answer my question, you just ran away from it. You are such a little girl running away from the simple question I asked.

Coward

[TheHappyKuffar]

I just answered it, Muhammad(illiterate man who started Islam).

[TheHappyKuffar]

It's mixed between the bars of faith, learn to read, little boy/girl. :)

[eyewallo2]

I knew you couldnt answer the question. You dont have the answer, you are some tough worded gutless fool that thinks you know more than the teachings of Christ Himself. Go run away again you little girl that cant back anything up with scripture.

[TheHappyKuffar]

Explain why I'm not a Christian... YOU still haven't given me anything Biblical to back your claim that I'm not. This is how we can prove you're none other than a farce and a false accuser with no spine on his back. You can come out of hiding, little girl. Lol, and you're calling me the coward? Give me a darn coffee break, will ya? :)

[catchzz]

ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION YOU GUTLESS FREAK. What is the pillar and foundation of truth? I already know you are gonna run away with your sorry tail between your legs. GIRL

[TheHappyKuffar]

Foundation of truth? Simple... Read John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way , the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

And calm your butt down, Satan.  Your time will come shortly... Read Revelation 20:10...

[catchzz]

1 Timothy 3:15 YOU GOT IT WRONG

[TheHappyKuffar]

So then I guess Jesus lied to us when He stated this in John 14:6 am I correct? LOL. You blasphemed... repent. :)

[TheHappyKuffar]

"sorry tail between your legs"

^^And yes... engaging in filthy talk like a good Catholic.. bravo. You represent your religion very well, hypocrite. :)

[catchzz]

You are the most childish thing Ive ever seen. Cant even take what you dish. GET A LIFE

[TheHappyKuffar]

Take a good look at your comments and we'll see who's the childish one.

"sorry tail between your legs"?

^^Yes, I've heard stuff like that in middle school. It's pretty darn redundant. I hoped not to hear stuff like this again... but it came back. Haha.

[TheHappyKuffar]

"GET A LIFE"

Says the angry demon possessed boy who made second account just to engage in his typical Catholic hypocrite's frolic as usual.

[TheHappyKuffar]

A man who's been asked a simple question can't even answer by his "GREAT KNOWLEDGE" in the scriptures, and decides to resort to cheap conclusive attacks and accusations from his own personal slant... and can't even use Biblical support to backup his claims that I'm not a real Christian. LOL. I don't know who I'm kidding.. it's either wallo or the pope... oh wait, there's plenty. :)

[TheHappyKuffar]

LOL. I'm no Bishop Weeks, buddy. I know the verses I read. Read the Bible carefully, bimbo. The fig tree of Israel has only led Jesus to say this:

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation BRINGING FORTH THE FRUITS THEREOF." (Matthew 21:43)

The Bible interprets itself... If you have a problem with self propagated interpretations then go cry to the Protestants about that matter. If you have an issue... here's a tissue. :)

[TheHappyKuffar]

eyewallo2, you can bark at the moon if you'd like. Jesus said judge a prophet by his/her fruit... you test the spirits without quickly jumping to conclusion like a spiritually blind fool. Remember, Satan can also quote the Bible... check out the temptation in the desert in Luke chapter 4. Ciao! :)

[eyewallo2]

Look I dont mean to be offensive, but it is obvious that you are out of touch with real Christianity. It is not worth my time to argue with you. You are exactly right, Satan CAN quote the bible. You think you can make some cheap slams, and you have represented yourself really well. Good day

[TheHappyKuffar]

And yet you have no Biblical basis to backup what you just said so your argument has already been flaunted as useless. My cheap slams? You don't even know how to read a comment without ignoring the tone, so you're blind like the rest of the false converts as usual. God bless and take care of yourself and your soul. :)

[eyewallo2]

Carry on coward

[TheHappyKuffar]

Who's the coward? I just asked you one minuscule question... define faith. You're running away from it like a goose on the loose. Get right with God, coward.

"But the COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Ciao!

[eyewallo2]

Look, when your ready to have a half way intelligent conversation, let me know. When you can cut the crap and childish attitude then maybe I would consider it.

[eyewallo2]

You think you are so smart trying to judge me off of my gender when you have no idea if I am male or female. Give me a break. What kind of scum are you anyways?

[TheHappyKuffar]

I don't give a half dog doo doo what gender you are. Define faith or lose it, wise guy. :)

What kind of sniveling coward are you?

[TheHappyKuffar]

Don't change the subject, nimrod... define faith or lose it.  :)

[TheHonestTheist]

/watch?v=fFH0khjgA0U

[eyewallo2]

Great video and debate, as I always say the Catholic Church doesnt even need defense, it defends itself and that was clearly evident here. Sungenis clearly knows his faith. If a protestant wants to believe whatever they want, let them. We cannot force someone to follow His Church. Its unfortunate that protestants are so divided and many put everything up to their own interpretation. God bless the one true Roman Catholic Church.

[TheHappyKuffar]

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:16)

The majority of professing Christians are Catholics. Most of them are secular human beings going after ungodly things that are not right in the sight of the Most High. A little more than half of these Catholics don't even trust that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, rather emplace their own philosophies made by man.

[TheHappyKuffar]

If you watch and observe carefully, the level of fondness of most of these Catholic churchgoers don't care much about the things pertaining to God and the grace of our Lord Jesus. Watch Preacher 717's video and see the typical frolics that the majority of these Catholic "Christions" make.

[eyewallo2]

You have some insanely unjust comments here. You want to compare the worst Catholics to the best nonCatholics? There are sour apples in any religion. The religion is not sinful bc people that claim to be something that they are not do sinful things. Someone can claim to be a Baptist by default, but not follow that particular denoms beliefs and commit sinful acts. I know many a sinful Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, etc. That is a very very poor argument.

[jesujoyofmansdesirin]

Exactly. What else can I say?

[eyewallo2]

What are you responding to?

[TheHappyKuffar]

Unjust? Did you read my comment? All churches falter in 80-90% of the steps they take. There are sinful Methodists and Baptist? Wow, I thought they were all pure, virtuous, clean, and innocent out of every other denominations in Christianity (sarcasm)... Thank you for stating the obvious, wallo.

[TheHappyKuffar]

I know a Catholic who hates Jews and Muslims for no reason, smokes weed and dope, and commits fornication weekly... same with the majority.. I use to attend Catholic school, the fruits are bad... the fig is bad... and unfortunately this applies to everyone. Statistics are.. only 10-15% of the members of every church is born again, the only thing we lack is the full counsel of God on how to get saved, live holy, and walk with the spirit rather than the flesh.

[eyewallo2]

You are one of the most illogical I have ever read when it comes to arguements! Again, I know many a people that claim to be a Christian like you and partake in sinful activity. Obviously you depend on your own interpretation of the bible so since you are your own pope then I would suggest learning about what the church really is. You honestly have no clue.

[TheHappyKuffar]

Depend on my own interpretation? Hehehe... then interpret the parable of the tares for me without looking down where Jesus explains it for His disciples.

"I know many a people that claim to be a Christian like you and partake in sinful activity"

Okay, mr. holy accountant... list me all the sinful activities that I have done so far that seems to get on your tail... you obviously know what goes on in my heart and know me very well, why don't YOU discern for me what goes on in here? Hm?

[TheHappyKuffar]

Jesus saw the fig of Israel on His way to Jerusalem, He found that it bore no fruit so He cursed it and caused it to wither... all churches called to escape this consequence. Read the Bible.

[eyewallo2]

Believe me, I know what the bible says on faith. Way more than you.

[TheHappyKuffar]

Define faith, Mr. holier than thou. :)

[eyewallo2]

How can asprin cure the headache of someone that doesnt take it. That is the kind of logic that you use. God did give us humans freewill so we can choose to do good or we can choose to sin. The church that stands is guided by the holy spirit to maintain the truth in doctrine and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Jesus did state in His own words that the pillar & foundation of truth is the church. IF He wanted to say it was the bible, He would have said so here.

[eyewallo2]

But do not make the false claim that the Catholic Church holds little regard for scripture as the Catholic Church is rich in scripture. A once antiCatholic protestant minister Scott Hahn said that once he attended a mass, he found more of the bible playing out in front of him, than he has ever seen or heard in a protestant Sunday service. Protestantism has done nothing but create docrines that didnt exist in early Christianity, & those believers must twist scripture to form their beliefs.

[StudentOfRabbiYeshua]

Someone PLAESE tell me where the bible states: "We are justified by faith alone."

-----

Help me.

[MRKetter81]

And yes.. God forgives future sin befor you even commit it.

Our Justification took place COMPLETELY on the cross ETERNALLY.

Otherwise you would never enter the Kindom of heaven, because there is so much sin befor you it can't be all accounted for by you.

We are regenerated to God's eternal action which took place on the cross by His election and His Spirit poored out in to the hearts of every believer.

There for it is by God not by part but completely that we are Justified.

[imromancatholic]

Well then why isn't everyone going to heaven? God just arbitrarily didn't forgive some 2000 years ago and so it's off to hell they go. Your God is a monster.

[winecheesery]

Catholocism = works righteousness = no righteousness.

Horton mopped the floor with this 'lic.

[imromancatholic]

Um no, Catholicism is God working in and through us to his glory, justifying and sanctifying us through the holy spirit and bringing about the works that HE requires of us (see romans 2:4-8, Matt 25). That's not works righteousness at all. You distort. So does Horton.

[jesuslivesanddied4u]

Man cannot earn salvation. Grace, is a contraditcition to earning. If we could earn our salvation why would we need grace. It does not make sense to believe that God gives us grace to in turn earn something he has already giving us. Also, you cannot loose your salvation. If you sin you don't loose the promise God gave you nor Grace. God is not like man. You do not have to confess your sins to the Pope or any priest. God says in the new Testament we are all priest. He also says in Romans he is

[jesuslivesanddied4u]

.. he says we should not call any man Father or Rabbi. Because our father is in heaven. I disagree with having to confess your sin to a man who cannot forgive you of that sin the only man who could do that is in heaven sitting to the right side of the Father. This man is off based, so is the Catholic faith. This religion also believe in praying to a saint that in tune will pass the prayer to Jesus. Jesus tore down that veil of separation why does the Catholic Church want to keep it?

[jesuslivesanddied4u]

One more thing, there is no more value attributed to one sin over another. Sin is sin to God. Only man will try to say what sin is greater than another to God; it's all the same. All resembles Satin in his eyes. Satin is the great tempter, not God.

[imromancatholic]

stealing a cookie is the same as robbing a bank. Well then I guess we better start putting cookie thieves in prison. If sin is sin, why does God tell the Pharasees their sin is greater than that of Sodom and Gomorah?

[Studier101]

How does man get "in a system of grace" that is the question!!!

[Studier101]

"IN HIS MORAL DISPOSITION" i.e., without being in a dispenation of grace, or common grace; by which a man can, through his free-will, merit grace. It is interesting how Rome will blaspheme Christ in just such a way as to not actually OPENLY blaspheme. So a Biblical Christian could say "What's wrong with that - I believe that too"; but look closely, for the doctrine of Rome is of its father, the Devil. Oh, Rome, your equivocating, blasphemous arguments do not fool us, we have no part in you.

[Studier101]

The reward of works has nothing to do with justification! Man cannot perform meritorious works in a state of grace to obtain justification! By definition, God's grace is unmerited favor upon all who believe! It perfects - imputation. Mr. Sungenis, and his church, will equivocate themselves into hell by denying the God breathed Scriptures. For they will not come to Christ that they may have life, neither will they believe the truth, and God has for this reason gave them up to believe a lie.

[imromancatholic]

RedBeetle,

Perhaps you could read Matt 25 and Romans 2:4-8 if you think works are not a part of the salvation equation.

By the way you are quite wrong that one is on probation in the Catholic Church. If one is to die when they become baptized they go straight to heaven. They have been completely forgiven and cleansed with the free gift of the Holy Spirit. The problem is that baptism does not remove the tendancy toward sin.

[RedBeetle]

If you can still lose your forgiveness, a true fiction in itself, then your are ever on probation and can have no comfort or assurance. Like Sungenis said above, you might sin like David did. You believe in conditional forgiveness, not complete forgiveness. Your a liar.

[imromancatholic]

Loose your forgiveness? No, sins are forgiven and forgotten by God when we confess them to Christ. He no longer holds them in front of us. Are you one of those believers in future sins being forgiven? That is unbiblical and not common sense. Sorry.

[MRKetter81]

Oh really? Then tell me how you can cover an ETERNAL debt?

Cause God Himself is Eternal you think "oops I made a mistake here. I need forgiveness now." James 2:10: "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker."

So now you tell me what Day,Hour,Minute,Second HAVEN'T you sinned?

[MRKetter81]

That's why an eternal propitiator was needed. Cause only an eternal God can lift the weight of an eternal offence to a God who does NOT live by the moment.

Is it not already plainly evident to you how even by NOT Sinning you're STILL sinning by NOT DOING ANY GOOD.

Unless you keep the whole law you never wavering even by little you have no way of fulfilling the LEAST of what the law demands.

By breaking one comandment you commit eveything to sin.. you, all those around you.. everything.

[RedBeetle]

Robert Sungenis is not a Christian. He believes that man is justified before God by faith and works. This palpably contradicts Romans 3:28, which teaches that man is justified before God by faith alone.

[RedBeetle]

Catholicism teaches that after regeneration man is on probation and must earn the rest of his salvation (faith+works). This is impossible from Isaiah 64:6, which teaches our righteousness is as filthy rags--extremely sinful. Thus, even after regeneration, man is incapable of fulfilling the holy law of God in this life (Romans 7). God always requires perfect works of righteousness (James 2:10). Thus, there is no possible way for man to be just with God in Catholicism.

[RedBeetle]

Furthermore, the very notion that man must do something to complete his justification contradicts the Bible, which teaches the Christ has not merely made it possible for man to be justified, but that Christ's atonement actually did justify His elect! Catholicism does not believe Jesus when He stated, "It is finished" (John 19:30). Catholicism makes Christ but half a savior.

[RedBeetle]

Finally, you will note that Sungenis attempts to smuggle the humanist teaching of "human free-will" into the discussion without ever demonstrating where the idea of human free-will is ever taught in Scripture. Catholic justification depends upon human free-will, but Erasmus failed to prove it to Luther, and Sungenis doesn't even try to prove it to us here! God determines whatsoever comes to pass (Ephesians 1:11).

[imromancatholic]

RedBeetle,

Is God working in and through us (eph 3:20-21) producing thirty, sixty, or 100 fold filthy rags? Again what is Romans 2:4-8 saying to you?

[RedBeetle]

Were not talking about sanctification, but justification. What Christ did for us is justification (Romans 3:28-Jeremiah 23:6). What the Holy Spirit causes in us is sanctification (Ephesians 2:1-10). You have not been given eyes to see or ears to hear, so you pretend there is no difference between the two.

[imromancatholic]

Ah I see, if I do the right thing but don't use the right words (according to your definitions) then I am a pagan. Sweet :). I don't have eyes to see or ears to hear. It's about having all the right definitions to the words. By the way I see sanctification as a subset of justification. I know that bothers you but it's all due to the cross. Paul says "yet not I but Christ is in me".

Blessings

[imromancatholic]

No RB, we believe in infused righteousness remember. It is you that believes in imputed righteousness. ;).

[RedBeetle]

This show, "The White Horse Inn", allowed Anne Rice to espouse her Roman Catholic theology on their show unopposed. They claim to be Calvinist, but I don't know of a Calvinist who allows a person to teach the Catholic Mass unopposed. John W. Robbins exposed them on this matter in an essay you can read at: trinityfoundation dot com.

[denyyourself20]

Hey RedBeetle, thanks for the comments...in which I agree 100% with. My point in posting these were not to promote Catholicism at all...on the contrary to refute it. I have read the essay of John Robbins refure of WHI before and I agreed with some of the things he said...

[denyyourself20]

However, even though I haven't watched ALL of WHI's episodes I have seen a lot of them, and they have had some very solid messages that would indeed be considered calvinistic. I didn't personally see the Anne Rice one, so I can't speak about that. But never should the message of justification by works supported by Catholics ever go unopposed. But I would like to say that I listen to all things, both John Robbins and WHI with discernment.

[denyyourself20]

Therefore I don't just write WHI off as heretics and refuse to listen to it- they offer some great messages on justification by faith alone and imputed righteousness and refute of the "cultural Christianity, seeker sensitive movement" and so on. Could Horton have presented a better argument in response to this Robert Sungenis guy? I definitely agree that he could have.

[grandconjunct]

are you a catholic or protestant ? denyyourself ?

[denyyourself20]

protestant

[pbcinla]

Hi, I'm a human being.

[jdkbriggs]

finally... some white horse inn on youtube!

[GenRev1611]

I'd love to see the round table discussion on video. My favorite Christian broadcast.