Tom Wujec demos the 13th-century astrolabe

[TheDragonCael]

What the hell is with all these negative comments? Get a life, people!

[ElGatoLoco698]

Chock this up to over rated and obsolete invention. What do you do when it's cloudy? The sun dial was a much more simple and served the same purpose.

I read someone said something about wagering that not a single high school student in the USA could create such a device. Is that really important? No one could replicate the antickethereiaidikeie (spelling) device either but it doesn't matter. We've invented much easier and more accurate and more reliable methods of measuring time.

[megalibra82]

This is an invention made by the Arabs before this 13th century English dude...check wikipediea.

[magnetocat]

@megalibra82 he did mention that they date from ~300 BC or so.

[hijirikirishima]

@megalibra82

Would this be the same Wikipedia that says it was invented by the Greeks around 150BC?

[LushForests]

He could get his point across without going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about that astrolabe

[ericsandmeyer]

Why does he assume that EVERYONE has an iPhone and a Macbook Pro? Oh, because of the audience....nevermind.

[danmorris23]

Those are beautiful, i want one ha ha :)

[gmikoner]

it doesn't work if it's cloudy.

[SingleSpiral]

I think TED has gotten too big, they are running out of cutting edge stuff.

[MrFungus420]

@SingleSpiral TED

Technology

Entertainment

Design.

This is incredible technology, It is entertaining and it involves something with incredible (and beautiful, in my opinion) design.

IT fits TED perfectly.

[mquiroz90]

the 3rd millennium is a very better one back in the 2nd and 1st was very different the 3rd millennium do watever u want bc this we will have very incredible technology

[mjeshaw]

The thing he keeps calling the "reet" is the rete, (which simply means net in Latin). It should be pronounced ray-tay.

[tafden25]

to bad my astrolabe has such low reception where i live.

[TheRealMichaelBaer]

Affirmative =)

[moniker127]

Another thing to think about is that your iphone is dependent on the US time service- it doesn't actually determine the time its self, it just copies it from elsewhere.

And, you iphone dies after a couple of hours unless its plugged in.

[warrior82nh]

You have any article on the astrolabe?

[kamratframjandet]

I usually know quite well what time it is just by looking at the sun, unless I'm totally confused about which way is north or south...

[GyRo567]

@kamratframjandet The sun works well during the day (hence the sundial), but the astrolabe helped a great deal at night. Conversely, the seafaring world had to wait for an accurate clock system to tell them the time so that they could use the reverse process to determine their longitude.

[Notsorandomnumbers]

1000 uses?

Use 1: paper wieght.

[Sundialonthejob]

@Notsorandomnumbers They are still made and can still be used to tell time, find out when dawn or dusk would come, or even do survey work. Of course, there are vastly easier ways to do this now.

[Notsorandomnumbers]

Does anybody really know what time it is?

[seenofruit]

I probably missed something, but how do you tell the time at night when you can't see the stars to set the dials?

[deathcow]

From this talk, I believe you need to have a planetarium application for your Iphone or ITouch.

[UNIbreaker]

do you mean in the day...?

[seenofruit]

Yeah, actually I did mean in the day (oops!). A friend recently told me that you line it up with the sun. I guess no one was worried about staring at the sun in those days.

[Sundialonthejob]

They did do that and it would tell time correctly, but during the day a sundial could also be used and there were plenty of portable as well as fixed sundials.

[lIlLLinIlI]

It'll be pretty cool to have a sundial strapped on one hand and the astrolabe in the back pocket =P

[Sundialonthejob]

@seenofruit One really couldn't. The moon can also be used (to some degree), and water clocks, candles, and other devices were used to fill the breach on cloudy nights.

[kreaturen]

@fcouperin:

Yeah, but I think that's something we should contemplate on our own, otherwise it would just be moralising. After all he said we gain something as well as loose something.

It's plenty of stuff to occupy our minds with still. Also in the past, most people were really dumb, and just a few really smart people had to do all the progress for us! ...Probably while those average smart people, where just preoccupied with checking out the time :P A lot of work ,just to get on with your day.

[Fuliginosus]

Am I the only person who still wears a watch?

[seenofruit]

@Fuliginosus You are not alone. I would be lost without my watch.

[awesomeSkins]

@Fuliginosus yes, I am afraid u r

[Dayvit78]

I really wanted to be interested by this chat because I like this era of history, but it wasn't really interesting...

Tom tried though.

[wuttup123]

Actually it was extremely interesting how in the 13th century they had already made a calculator and practically a computer. But I know what you mean because I too was expecting more about the history of its making and about the significance it had to the Muslims but either way it was very nice

[fcouperin]

maybe he could talk about how an easier interface allows the user to be more stupid. for the astrolabe you must know some astronomy, for a mobile device, just how to read numbers.

[luckystrke]

how to tell time if u dont have an iphone?! come on... -_-

[yassine36]

Did Tom mention who invented the 1st Astrolabe?

[madhatterten]

How do you tell time without an Iphone?

Its worth as much as three mac book pros?

As you glimpse at your ipod to tell the time?

Not only was this the least informative ted talk I have ever watched, it felt more like a mac commercial. The knowledge of astronomy was astounding. How did the first person perceive the world as round? This was a useless ted talk with no real direction or true push towards his apparent objective of progression is both loss and gain.

[madhatterten]

I am always amazed at how people put forth such amazing technology and such, at the time, abstract thoughts. However, if this ted talk was truly only about the astrolabe it was an ill conceived ted talk. It is an amazing device, but a ted talk should move you. Maybe if he did not use an iphone app to write his speach it might of had been more directed. So much could be said about the invention of it, rather than the expense of the object itself. Who cares what it costs?

[Truthiness231]

Totally eye-opening!

I remember - vaguely - having to learn about this contraption in 8th grade History class. All we had to go on was the term "astrolabe" and a horrible definition as to what it was. Glad I can finally see one and find out not only what it looked like but how it was used. Thanks for filling one of the voids left from American public schools for an autodidact who likes to do that sort of thing. ^.^

[Travelfreak78]

Why does he assume everyone have an iPhone?

[nyclear]

Anyone agree with this: Not knowing much about the night sky does create some agitation within my being. Not knowing my surroundings on a basic level feels unsettling. I never realized this until this video.  So thanks!

[zangetsujoo]

I want an astrolabe for christmas, A great example of form and function combined.

[kaimialana]

What a beautiful and elegant instrument.

[Shaunt1]

Amazing what they came up with way back then!

[shagster1970]

To all those negative comments- What message were you expecting? I bet you didnt know of the astrolabe! I learned something therefor it was of interest. Side note: Its interesting to see the evolution of man's progress in technology. And yes - I was amazed at how they could come up with this stuff even TODAY let alone so many years ago. I would wager not a single high school (students) in the USA could create such a device today if asked.

[Leopoldo888]

agree.

[planetdarwin]

Carl Sagan might agree with you. We were explorers from the beginning. Nomads and explorers. This settler and agricultural thing isn't working.

[shagster1970]

I disagree - its only with settlement and the agriculture that you can then afford to explore rather than survive from day to day and congregate people in large masses.

[planetdarwin]

Not really. Our overpopulation problem is separate. We need agriculture as a wide base as a consequence for stuffing the top of the food pyramid with humans. That's separate from exploration. We used to be explorers and it worked well in small nomadic groups.

[YoLninYo]

intellectual dishonesty at its worst! In true orientalist fashion he completely skips over the 800 years of Arab/Muslim contributions to the science of astronomy, and the development of the Astrolabe. He mentioned Chaucer and yes, Chaucer actually used an Arabic manuscript as its source.

Very dissapointed in the intellectual dishonesty of people who get to present at TED. :(

[elipto]

to all the herbs that discredited this talk....

the point of this lecture ISSSS the ASTROLABE!!!! and yes NOTHING MORE!!!

thats all isss and all that it was supposed to be!!!!!!!!

[MRSketch09]

@Vid

That's an interesting device.

But what was the mans point?

Is he saying that were relying to heavily on technology? that were becoming dumb asses because everything is becoming automatic?

We need to think more?

Surely there was more to this, than 'lets all look at the pretty replica tool, that cost a few grand'?

[btwbrand]

Well by your logic Everyone can sit their asses in their cars in traffic every-day then, Because 50% of those people around them don't need to be driving, they are just out wasting gas.

City centers are people magnets.. They attract lurkers who have no reason to be there. you are free to travel the roads. pay a one time toll to enter the city.. the end. Public transportation is a good thing. Look at Major cities with millions in population. the ONLY way to move large # of people

[bersaba]

He said Iphone because a person in the audience had one, so he was making a direct point.

[TonyC911]

ahahaha

[azndude3600]

Great lecture!

[moxiousmayhem42]

A very interesting viewpoint on technology.

[defect530]

i will have to disagree with him on almost everything he said. seemed like a hyped up boring lecture.

[Professoranton]

This is interesting and worthwhile but it pays too little attention to the establishment of the time-zone with the advent of the telegraph

/watch?v=C-jr9FVgr1o

[Faergen]

Win!

[DIProgan]

Good vid.

[freesk8]

wonderful!

"Does anybody really know what time it is?"

Chicago

[solace1369]

Could one not program an astrolabe on the ipod?

[Sundialonthejob]

There are astrolabe programs for computers today. One can also find programs that show a stereographic image of the sky for stargazers.

[dapnd]

as a follow-up, where we would say the stupid phrase, "there's an app for that," the old folk would say "learn your stuff, you damn yuppie." well... something like that.

[dapnd]

dude, his point is we over-rely on technology, and we think that the only way you can do simple tasks is to use the newest, "best" technology. he's saying that we think we're so advanced because we have new gadgets, when in fact there are old ones that are jut as good.

[poopybambam]

I understand that, but it made the talk groan-inducing. It's bad enough that he looks like the stereotypical Mac fanboy; Designer glasses, a stylish shirt and suit jacket with jeans, thinning, gelled hair, and a hint of a lisp. But the constant, unnecessary Mac references cemented it. Instead of attempting to extract the point he was trying to make, I was constantly wondering if he worked for Apple.

Your comment, however, has all the insight of his talk, but doesn't take twelve minutes to read.

[billyshake]

See, poopy, that comment was both witty and made total sense. You're obviously someone who's adept at conveying your thoughts through written word -- so why the hell did you demean yourself and the rest of us by initially screaming "faggot" and going on about Steve Jobs' dick? You come off like a 10 year old boy mindlessly bullying small kids as a reaction to getting beat by your alcoholic father for not fondling him the way sister taught you. (See? Demeaning. Grow up.)

[poopybambam]

@Billy: Because that was my initial response. I was irritated by his talk's lack of substance, and expressing my opinion in a very Youtube-ian way. The fact that I cursed has nothing to do with what I was saying. It's up to the reader to extract the meaning from my comment.

And that's exactly what was wrong with this talk. It had almost no message, but the guy giving it still came off as an ass. If I has said something random, like "I bet he's a virgin," then I would concede that you're right.

[sidexwalk]

He used the iPhone bit as an example to analogize the epitome of modern time- checking, compared to the starkly contrasting concept of having to go through quite a bit of work just to answer the "what time is it?" question had it been 600 years prior.

[fourthirteen]

speaks volumes that you focus so much on the speaker rather than his message.

[corydorastube]

He works for Autodesk, not for Apple.

[66kompis]

Exactly...great comment! "just as good".... or some times even better...But human kind are stupid.... we will eventually start using certain old things cause the new ones are not as good........

[roidroid]

Is this guy on loan from Steve Jobs' harem?

He has needlessly mentioned 3 Apple(tm) products.

He says MacBook(tm) instead of "Laptop", and iPhone(tm) instead of "cell phone".

What a tool.

[apocaRUFF]

I think he was trying to contrast between old and new, since the Astrolabe is very old, and Apple stuff (MacBook, Ipod, Iphone, etc..) are considered new (or "the tech of tomorrow").

[TURKOMAN]

I agree but still it was quite informative...

[fireflyuphigh]

OMG, i hate this guy's voice. It's so annoying, even the way he talk.

[creten69]

if some jackass asks what time is it? just say hey buddy, it is exactly 3:30

[roidroid]

strangely, in this day and age if someone asks what time it is - the first thing you do is check their IP address to see what country they're in.

Strange times :)

[mmedefarge]

We do grow more and more remote from our surroundings. A co-worker once asked me for directions. When I mentioned heading N. or E., she told me that she didn't know where those were, even though she'd driven there. I wound-up having to draw a street map.

[Sundialonthejob]

Indeed, we are fortunate to have things like GPS devices in our cars and map programs on our computers, but using instruments like compasses, the sun and stars to navigate are becoming distant memories.

[mmedefarge]

I don't drive. I take public transport or walk. I don't walk around with a compass but I do like to know basically where I am on the cardinal points. It's helpful to know when you're travelling around, so using the sun or even where the position of the space station is in the sky is helpful.

[Sundialonthejob]

That's good to hear. Kant, in his treatise on education certainly thought it wise that we should know how to navigate and travel about using the sun and the stars. When the high tech goes out, the old professor is proven right all over again.

[mcgrawtim123]

Fascinating.

[macnutz]

I've often admired the beauty of the workmanship in astrolabes I've seen on display but did not understand how many things it did and how. Big thanks to the poster.

[newexperiment]

The greatness and value of TED uploads have been somewhat lacking as of late. At least compared to previous weeks.

[SpacedTime]

Brill

[StanRather]

iant?

[BlacksAreBeautiful]

These TED talks truly provide food for thought! Great talk.

[RarewareLover]

I must disagree with him that progress is just another word for change.

Even though we cannot have progress without change, not all change is progress.

[Iced1992]

This statement is heavily dependant on your semantic interpretation of "progress". Not all progress is good, but it progresses nonetheless.

[RarewareLover]

Yes, it was his interpretation that all change is progress and all progress is change that seemed too simplified for me.

I always thought of these as two separate words with two separate definitions. Progress always progresses, but does change?

You could make the argument that everything we see progresses because only nonexistence is true stagnation, but I'm just talking about the meaning of two words and what they represent.

[orrin2002]

I think that you raise a good point, really progress is a form of change. You could think about it as the vector of change if you wish. The counter point being oscillation.

I know theses are very mathematical terms to try to use to describe human endeavor, but why not they seem to fit.

[newexperiment]

so it can have two meaning and therefor ??

[ripporter]

Megacool! Made me realize that Islam helped the development of Astronomy because Muslim travelers had to figure out the time for prayers and the direction to Mecca!

[Sundialonthejob]

Many Islamic astrolabes has "apps" for just this purpose and others related to Islamic practices.

[lotanerve]

All with no wires. Amazing.

[RonaldsSulcs]

interesting.

[adamredwine]

So how long do we have to wait until there's an astrolabe iphone app?

[Saktoth]

Brilliant idea to convey but terribly presented.

[GetMeThere1]

Of course....they wouldn't work too well in cloudy skies.

Otherwise, I have to admit, this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

[McPrfctday]

The real Golden Compass... coool!

[Th0usandMaster]

6:22

in the heaven?

where is it?

[fouramerica]

i love when they don't get a standing ovation

[chungdha]

Do you look at time on your Iphone? I tell time by looking at my watch!!!

[captcaveman4201]

watches are dumb.. what else does it do? beep?

[canadianmaple09]

When he asks how you would check the time, he mentions the iPhone. When he talks about the cost of an astrolabe, he uses a reference to MacBook Pro. Holy shit! Could we have another shameless plug for Mac please?

[rami9090]

astorlabe is an arabic device invented by arabs

it's not an english asshole who invented it

[NekoMouser]

I don't think anyone ever claimed it was.

The speaker referred to the "first technical manual in English" on how to build one. He never said the author of the manual invented the device, nor that there were not pre-existing manuals or devices in languages other than English. He was only pointing out that the first instructions on how to build the device in his (and most of the audience's) primary language were targeted at an 11-year old child.

[YoLninYo]

Did you manage to notice how he completely skipped giving any credit to it and tried to give an impression that it was an englishman who came up with it. Also, he kept bearing "our forbears"...

It is like pointing out that the first transister radio was built by a japanese company, thereby implying it were the japanese who invented the device, even though it was indeed Shockly, an american.

It was a shockingly dishonest thing to do, and I did not expect a TED presenter to stoop so low.

[nilbud]

Your racism has made you stupid. Don't be so ignorant.

[YoLninYo]

lolwut?

[cavealieniv]

The astrolabe is not Arabic, it was invented by Hipparchus, a Greek.

[NegativeNick]

so let me get this straight, they raised the price of traveling into the city and so people just stopped going? I agree that people need an incentive to stop taking their car but what about the alternative? In LA you'd have to improve light rail system before people would cut down on the cars

[nilbud]

There are things called buses

[NegativeNick]

there are also things called three hour commutes

[nilbud]

Well expecting cheap petrol to stay cheap is ridiculous so move or figure out how to work from home. Whatever happens the booming Chinese economy is going to buy up all the oil and drive the price up.

The cost per mile of driving a car is going to increase dramatically in the US. This is how much it costs today in the EU

€1.189 per litre = 6.719 U.S. dollars per US gallon

[Dilliboy63]

interesting content but this dude has the most annoying voice

[jevajevajevajeva]

So, does he like astrolabes or something?

[HiAdrian]

What a beautiful device!

[NegativeNick]

it only works at night

[HiAdrian]

come on nick, i've already had my share of negative today.

[captcaveman4201]

i also like the looks of the device!! such cemetrical patterns are possible because the universe is a fractal.

[btwbrand]

Symmetrical. There is nothing "fractal" about the universe. The patterns are due to the fact that the earth rotates and is tilted. The stars are fixed in there spacial relation to the earth if you consider the fact that the earth and movement of the"stars" in relation to the movement of our own solar system are not dynamically changing on a scale that can be measured with the human eye. Test it yourself with some time-laps photography of the night sky.

[captcaveman4201]

nothing fractal about the universe you say..if you were able to see the see the gravitational and magnetic forces with your eyes. you would be thinkin differently..

[KeybdFlyer]

@captcaveman4201

I see you are suffering from the common American delusion that the US is a leader in anti-pollution measures. They are not. Congestion charges are one of a range of measures taken by countries beyond the US borders to encourage use of mass-transit systems & remind those who drive into cities that there is a penalty (globally) for their actions. Before criticising others, have your own house put in order, cars that manage 15-30 m.p.g. (EPA estimated! = guessed) are dinosaurs.

[captcaveman4201]

a good TED presentation.. Finally!! but the commercial at the end about the traffic is the dumbest thing i have seen..They charge people to drive their cars!! WTF !! they scan their licence plates and send them a bill in the mail.. WTF !! because they are soo concerned about traffic and pollution. but billing people doesnt FIX A DAMN THING! are they putting their efforts into having clean electric, hydrogen,solars cars? NO they put their efforts into scanning people licence plates TO BILL THEM

[btwbrand]

The commercial wasn't about going green or saving gas, or any thing of the sort.

It's about a solution to a problem. Too many people on the road when they do not need to be. The addition of a simple fee was all that was needed to deter those with no real reason to be out driving and facilitated faster, easier traveling for those that did need to be on the roads.

[captcaveman4201]

its not a solution to any problem!! it simply delays any real solution!! billing people so they cannot afford to be moble doesnt solve a goddamn thing.. its going to make it so some rich fat cat collecting the bills has the roads all to himself.. Also what else will happen is that you will need a reason to be out on the roads! where is your paperwork! Solution to a problem my ass! how about they just kill off the people that will solve the problem right!? Where we are going we don't need roads!

[leejae]

Well I guess we should start removing all the tolls from our highways then.

[captcaveman4201]

yes that is a very very good place to start..

[btwbrand]

It is a solution, how could you not see this?

If there is a parking lot full of people that aren't entering a store the parking lot serves, then that's a problem. Imposing a fine to deter people from parking in said lot if they have no valid use in the lot is a solution. The same concept and proven to work here.

A by-product of the fines was an increase in public transportation use, and car-pooling. Both of which save people more money than the fuel it takes to travel there separately.

[DRogers1082]

if had an astrolabe i know i would not sell it for any amount of money.

[Patrick1Bateman]

bollocks

[Katalyzt]

Cool ★★★★★

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

Meh

[Blackliam]

did not know these existed

[Phyrexious]

Just a little bit of yawn on my side.

[dreapster]

interesting...

[dackjaniels555]

ASTROLABIA

...

[Psycherz]

First legit comment! Woo, go me...

But crap aside, this wasn't as entertaining. He never really got to the point, he just kept going on about the astrolabe. Which is all well and good, but he set up for a talk about how advancing technology sort of limits us. Never really got into that at all.

[grofuss]

Agreed, not the best TED talk on this subject.

[onedickhead]

3rd..Working it out now on my slide rule.....Not very good..(give or take 3 to 5%)