I find it a bit ironic for christians like this caller who claim to think about the challenges raised by atheists seriously and strengthen their beliefs by it...if they have seriously thought about it and still leave with a strong conviction, then they are still not thinking critically and continue to be self deluded, all the while claiming to have defeated the arguments because they've 'thought about it'.
@n800064447 Accepting God allows christians to refute reason. The nature of the supernatural is beyond understanding. God is supernatural, and therefore beyond understanding. Heck, the bible even says so. This is the core of their belief, and impervious to the reasoning of man. Even should you destroy every argument they create as 'proof', they've already made up their mind that something exists beyond knowledge. This is faith, the very antithesis to reason.
Finaly another smart and open minded christian now thats what everyone likes to see.He is right if you cant understand or try to understand then whats the point most atheists were christians that got deeper into the bible and use there free will and moral to see it right or wrong.Christians that just tell people that they have not read the bible just means they only believe in what they think.christians with open minds are called fake christians cause they use there own free will.
Your problem isn't with God, is with man made dogmas created in our quest to understand God. You're confused because you try to get all the answers at the same time. You need to solve one problem at a time. Solve the first one and then we can move to the others. Could an immaterial conscious being, or a form of conscious energy, create the universe? Is there any possibility for that? yes/no? If not, why not.
Is there any possibility of God existing in any possible world?
@dejesusluisx First, you need to ask yourself, how could anything immaterial have consciousness or even be considered a "being?" Why do you feel like the universe needs to be "created" when you are perfectly okay with "God" just existing? Wouldn't that "God" need a creator as well? If not, then why can't the universe just exist?
@CntthnkO15 ""how could anything immaterial have consciousness"" Did you know scientists suggest that our consciousness arise from our brains ability to accumulate more information than animals? Did you know that all human knowledge, all information, cel phone conversations, TV shows, movies, all that mankind has ever produced is flowing through you body in the form of waves? Energy waves contain billions of times more information than what our brains can store, so wave energy can be conscious.
I totally agree. The problem is not with God, as we, atheists do not believe he exists, but with religions and above all with religions held as ideologies. The question of an eventual "conscience" guiding the laws of the universe(s) is another question going beyond this debate about religions. And until now, no scientifical has been given. And maybe will never be.
@maotzetof Your religion doesn't matter, what matters is that you become one with the Lord, that you're in His same wavelength, living in grace. Religion is a tool to know God, not a goal. You can get to the same place without religion, although might take you more time and effort. Jesus was brought as a means to facilitate that journey, a role model, a message, the incarnated verb. Religion is important because to get somewhere a map is always helpful, but not indispensable if God guides you.
@dejesusluisx "You can get to the same place without religion, although might take you more time and effort." You have any proof that religion makes you a good person faster? How much faster do you become a better human being?
@feuchster If you attend an organized spiritual weekend retreat, you'll know. If you are open minded, you can be a new person, transformed and born again in a weekend.
@feuchster If the Holy Spirit acts and you a endowed with sanctifying grace, you'll be in a higher spiritual level, you will feel connected to the divine and all your perspective of life will change. I changed my moral views, my music tastes, I felt relief, inspired, unafraid of death, forgiving, free of enemies and hate. You won't miss any of your past life, because you'll be in a higher plane, auto realized, complete. I was a gadget person, very materialistic, all that is gone.
@feuchster I have a friend that was a heroin addict, living in the street, begging for money. In one night of prayer at church, the addition was gone and he was re-born as a Christian. Now he plays in a music ministry and writes poetry. He's the humblest nicest person you will know. Have another friend that has been in methadone therapy many years and still not cured. Living in God's grace can produce miracles. Is not enough just to believe, you have to let yourself go and accept God to fill you
@dejesusluisx Here's the thing, there have been people who have went through the same things your friend has been through and has quit cold turkey like he did.
And i'm kind of frightened of who you are, you need an excuse to not fear death, change your moral values, to be inspired, forgiving, free of hate etc. That's disgusting, if you need some form thought that consists of a deity to have those feelings, that's sad, i'm sorry.
@feuchster "has quit cold turkey like he did" My friend told me he didn't got sick or had any urges right after he felt the presence of the Holy Spirit. I don't see any reason why he would lie, I didn't even asked for him to give me his testimony. He was very sincere, and he is so convinced he was cured that same night he dedicated his life to serve the lord.
Are you saying you are free of hate, that you would forgive anyone that cause you harm and aren't materialistic?
@dejesusluisx delusional people are also very sincere in their beliefs - how can you determine what is insane and what is not insane based only on sincerity?
@MagnusNyborg "how can you determine what is insane and what is not insane based only on sincerity?" So by their fruits you will know them - Mat 7:20
@dejesusluisx And there are people who will tell you "john frum" is real. Are you of a cargo cult? I thought not. But they believe just as strongly as you do, they will say it's fact and that they have evidence for it. People who are delusional can be very sincere, it proves nothing.
Would i forgive someone who has caused me harm? It really depends on the circumstances and whether they meant to do so or not.
@dejesusluisx Years ago my 2 sons were using Heroin, both were addicts. My Older one saw what it was doing to his life and decided to just quit, he is and was an atheist. He never got sick and cravings stopped in a couple days and that was years ago and he has never used since then. My second born who is a year younger tried quitting several times and got sick everytime, he finally ended up in jail for months and still needed meds after he got out. Finally threw meds he quit, and aint gone back
@robtay1963 "both were addicts" did you grew then in a home full of the love of God? did you pray with them every day? did they did weekend retreats and had church going friends?
I'm not saying you can't be cured from drugs in any other way, my point is that 1. the best way to avoid the destruction of a family is to live in the love of God 2. if your family is already destroyed, the best way to restore it is with the love of God filling all your life and all your actions.
@dejesusluisx Yes for a time until my divorce. Funny the one who needed help still believes in god and the one who quit cold turkey was an atheist at the time and still is. I will say this though, Atheist are very insulted when you tell them they are incapable of loving others, I find your biblical god immoral, he does things I find sick and repulsive. I am a good person, and believing in god would not make me a better person, indeed it would waste my time and money that I put to better use
@robtay1963 If you love someone, contribute to society, learn new things everyday, try to keep yourself healthy, see nature and find beauty in it, smile at an innocent joke, and if you think being alive is wonderful; then God is with you. The free will you're exercising now was a gift from God. You can be sure that the greatest joy you can feel is nothing compared to the happiness you'll feel if you truly and convincingly accepts Jesus as your savior. Life gets a new meaning in love
@dejesusluisx I did that for a long time, but I started learning that the science I was told was wrong by my church leaders was in fact all true. I learned that the bible is very historically inaccurate. Also I have read the bible and so as I have said, I know there is no god and I have no need for one to be happy, however even if the bible were true I would not worship such an egotistical, sexist, genocidal, Sadistic, megalomaniac, insecure being as the God of the bible. Men made up all gods!!!
@robtay1963 "was in fact all true" the fact your leaders were narrow minded fundamentalists, doesn't disprove God. "the bible is very historically inaccurate" regarding what exactly?
People throughout the ages have been confused about God and had created weird dogmas to describe Him. There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence.
@dejesusluisx I feel sorry for you if your self esteem is so low the only way you can feel good about yourself is to stroke the ego of your invisible friend. I personally feel way more whole and complete as an atheist then I ever did as a christian, and I am more moral then any christian because I don't pay homage to some sick being of whom, if the bible were true, often ordered the slaughter of children and the rape of teenage girls, if you read OT and want to love that god you are not moral
@robtay1963 Where do we go from here? We are in a crucial point in human evolution. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish animal behavior is the next step in consciousness. Only our Free Will is in the way. Atheism rejects Jesus as a role model. This represents a step back in consciousness.
@dejesusluisx Again as I have said atheist are not immoral in anyway, Some people who are atheist do horrible things, as well as some people who are Christians can do terrible things. Your god first is a fairy tale made up by primitive men. Second Even he were real he is evil and not worthy of being worshiped. Judges 21 is just one morbid chapter in you book of moral authority, there are hundreds if you choose to read them, I am not perfect but I am way more moral the the pretend god you worship
@robtay1963 The people of ancient times live a life of murder and wars, that wasn't God ordering those deaths in Judges 21, those lives were taken by men with a lower consciousness level.
@dejesusluisx as to where do we go from here, I don't have a need to believe we go anywhere, I have excepted that life is Finite and I will one day be dead. I enjoy the life I have no way more, no I don't go out and do horrible things or cheat on my wife, neither do I live in fear of an evil being who might decided to torment me forever....How sick and evil is this god you claim exist, I am glad logic and reason finally kicked in. Would you serve a tyrant??? While according to you, you are.
@robtay1963 ""Would you serve a tyrant?"" No, my God isn't a tyrant. Is a God of justice and love. You are just blind to the reasons He might have to impart justice.
@dejesusluisx Read judges 21 plus google rape in the bible, see all the horrible atrocities god orders. Would you let a serial rapist take care of your 12 year old daughter while you went on vacation because he claimed he was nicer now... That is what christians do when they read the OT the say ,"But Jesus came to abolish the old laws", No he did not according to the bible and even if he did being nice today does not atone for ordering slaughter of innocent children and rape of virgins. sick god
@dejesusluisx Based on what I know of history those events never really took place at all. I don't believe the bible is true. It has a few real places and a few real People but the events are all just made up by ruthless people who wanted to control the masses....But my point was to any one who says the bible is all true then yes according to it God did indeed order these things. You sound like me 17 years ago, Look at it this way you already don't believe in a 1000 gods, just one more to go
@robtay1963 ""You sound like me 17 years ago"" and you sound like me 5 yrs ago, but I discovered the truth. ""you already don't believe in a 1000 gods, just one more to go"" There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength.
@robtay1963 I was a non-believer and found the truth. Since humans stepped out of the caves, we were constantly expanding our circle of love to include more people. We now reject genocide, racism and incest, things that were common centuries ago. We are in a crucial point in our development. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish instincts and materialism is the next step. Rejecting Jesus which represents 100% love as a role model, is a step back for our consciousness
@dejesusluisx Take away the part about jesus and you sound like characters from StarGate; SG1 , a race we humans call the ancients, they ascended to a higher plain of existence. I believe is seeking knowledge and expanding our minds, but I don't believe we need a god to do that. I have come to believe that what is real is what we can prove and test and so far no one has proven a god exist. But you have a right to believe what you want.
@robtay1963 The same way an electrician must understand electricity before peeling the wires, you should understand God before committing to question His existence. Understand the deep theological knowledge of the Christ teachings, the sacraments, the life and contributions of the saints, the meaning of existence, the history of the Church, God's revelations to all mankind, and then, integrate that knowledge. Only then you can be ready to get real answers to life's questions.
@robtay1963 "god and jesus are fictional" Prove it. All claims require evidence, mine and yours. The difference is that claims without evidence are faith claims, and I don't mind at all saying I base my claims on faith and therefore they are religious claims. Now if you don't mind being part of a cult and having atheism label as a religion, keep posting and don't get any evidence, Mr. cult member; but if you do, then get the evidence for your claim or shut up!!!
@dejesusluisx actually you are wrong. I mean if I said I had a Unicorn that was invisible and untouchable in my back yard but it could grant wishes, but only occasionally and always slowly , never mountian moving type miracles that could be verified and tested, I would have to prove it. But if you said I did not have one of those you would not have to prove my unicorn was not real...You are making a claim that a being that can not be proven scientifically exist, you need to show me proof.
@dejesusluisx You are very wrong of course, by logical and scientific standards the burden of proof in on the person making the claim, yes I said god did not exist because of lack of proof. You can not say Dragons and magical unicorns exist because I can not prove them wrong....You claim there is a country called Australia, you can prove it by providing modern day evidence such as a video or even taking me there, So prove your god exist in a way that can be tested scientifically.
@robtay1963 "the burden of proof in on the person making the claim" yes, I know that, that is why I ask for evidence of your claim that God doesn't exist.
"yes I said god did not exist because of lack of proof" absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So you still ow us evidence or an apology.
@dejesusluisx You don't get it do you. I don't claim anything. You claim there is a god so the burden of proof in on you for making a claim. You can disagree with that statement but it does make it logical. Answer this question, do I also have to prove to you that Fire breathing dragons and magical unicorns don't exist.... I am open minded and would love testable proof of god. If you make a claim that something is real you must prove it if you want people to believe it is real.
@robtay1963 ""I don't claim anything"" you did, two days ago you claimed: "god and jesus are fictional", that is indeed a claim. Are you going to deny you posted this? That was you claim, do you have evidence?
I have many arguments that support God's existence but the evidence is personal, and you'll get it only if you decide to look for it.
@dejesusluisx Search Australia is fictional, then search for any other thing for which you know there is no dispute over, you won't find much or anything coherent or sensible. If there was any real tangible proof of god there would be no debate. And as far as needing to believe on faith, that is a cop out, according to many fictional acounts in the KJV many 1000s saw proof. If we knew god were real we would still have free will to serve him or not. I help my fellow man but out of choice not fear
@robtay1963 ""Search Australia is fictional"" is irrelevant. ""I help my fellow man but out of choice not fear"" I don't help anyone out of fear. Good for you, that means God is acting in you, he is inspiring you, what you need to do is to establish a communication.
@dejesusluisx Yes I did that for the first 32 years of my life and he never answered back, nothing has really changed in my personal life these past 16 years except I have more free time, and more money. I hope you are happy with your life, I can only say I would have given in to logic and reason a long time before I did if I had the internet back then....I can not see anyone finding the ease of information and videos that educate like these videos do and still holding on to bronze age myth,
@robtay1963 I had seen them all and there is nothing to them, they are baseless arguments, there is no evidence against the existence of God, not one good argument that can stand a first round of rebuttal, watch the debates of Dr. Crag or Dr. Lennox (among others) and you'll see. Give me just one, one good argument that any reasonable person can say: yeah, God can't exist, and if can't give you a logical reason as to why is so, I'll concede. I have more than enough personal evidence
@dejesusluisx OH i have seen Dr crag and he is the funniest comic since Steve martins stand up days.....I have seen a few of his videos, but see he is a Dr of theology, which is not science, Hey if I have a question about the meaning of a bible verses I would call Dr Crag, not Richard Dawkins , but if I have a question about evolution then I will call Richard Dawkins No Dr crag or Dr dino kent hovind.
@robtay1963 Dr Crag and Dr Dino should go to vegas, they would be the best comedy duo since Martin and Lewis, oh no wait that won't work, for a comedy team to be funny one of them has to at least be able to appear smart....
@robtay1963 ""a question about evolution then I will call Richard Dawkins"" Bad choice, he hasn't produce anything of relevant in his field. In order for the selfish gene theory to hold water, it relies on the assumption that environmental changes affects gene selection. That's something similar to Lamarck's theory 200 yrs ago. No proof for such a mechanism has been found. Dawkins made himself famous with a bogus theory and no evidence to support it, just in the name of atheism.
@dejesusluisx Be happy with your false god ok, I personally would not worship the KJV god even if he were real. I thank the great Norse God Odin that science has progressed beyond humans need for an invisible man in the sky to explain why we don't all die every night when the sun sinks into the ocean....And you are funny to tell me to listen to Dr Crag, but say Dawkins does not know what he is talking about...LOL.....
@robtay1963 "say Dawkins does not know what he is talking about...LOL....." I never said that. If you want to continue with your ways is your choice. But there's an alternative. God is real. You will not hear a voice from the ski or see a light, this message is all you'll get. Reason can get you close but only faith get you in. Don't loose your soul trying to win silly arguments, isn't worth it.
@dejesusluisx never said that. If you want to continue with your ways is your choice. But there's an alternative. The purple monkeyelephant is real. You will not hear a voice from the ski or see a light, this message is all you'll get. Reason can get you close but only faith get you in. Don't loose your soul trying to win silly arguments, isn't worth it.
I can make the exact same message based on faith of another idea. Your argument holds no water if it isn't based on proof.
@dejesusluisx how am i losing my soul? I'm just telling it how it is. Tell me, you obviously believe we are created by your God, because we can't magically appear out of nothing, right?
@dejesusluisx (Dawkins made himself famous with a bogus theory).Last time I paraphrased, to say someone had a bogus theory means they are not correct.Duh!..Faith that the sun will rise again is based on common sense as it has risen everyday of my life, faith in a 2000 year old book from several cultures that steals many of it's myths from even older more obscure texts is just plain silly. Claiming faith without conviction is Pascals wager. I simply have to much information to ever truly believe
@robtay1963 ""to say someone had a bogus theory means they are not correct.Duh!.."" I was talking about the selfish gene theory. ""I simply have to much information to ever truly believe"" that isn't a bad thing if you keep an open mind, the more doubts you have, the more astonish you will be when you can answer all of them if you see the light. The key is not to close your heart and mind to the possibility.
@dejesusluisx No about australia what I am saying is no on dispute what all know to be real even if you have never touched or seen something that everyone knows to be real. I guess I am saying if god were real no one would argue his existence, that would be silly. When you can quantify god and show he exist in a scientific way then people will believe. As for him working in me I hope not because if he were real and of KJV i would not want him in me and would have him removed he is evil...
@robtay1963 ""I am saying if god were real no one would argue his existence, that would be silly"" Is an unfair comparison, why don't you try love? or beauty? or consciousness?, furthermore, try scientific concepts like entanglement or even some question the existence of matter all together. I could even make a case for gravity not existing since gravity is the bend of space-time and a bend doesn't exists as an object, only exist the object that bends, and the one bent.
@dejesusluisx I won't be able to chat as the Enterprise is beaming me up in about 20 minutes, and once we hit warp 8 only our subspace communicators will reach earth. At that point us crew members are only allowed 30 minutes a day of internet use and I don't want to waste mine arguing with a person who believes in made up science because it supports his Evil god theory. Well so long I have to put on my anti gravity boots since Mr. Scott told be the artificial gravity is on the fritz
@dejesusluisx Okay okay you win, I will admit god exist and devote my whole life to him, after you prove gravity does not exist and walk off a 40 story building with nothing but normal clothes on you back, if you continue walking just like the coyote used too in the Road Runner cartoons, It will make international news and many millions of atheist will turn to god.
@robtay1963 ""after you prove gravity does not exist"" a free falling object is at it's inertial state, look it up. Gravity doen't exists the way currently described as a force on it's own like electromagnetism or strong force, because the way is currently described is as a non-entity, as a bend. Now having said that, there is another explanation for it that do describes it as a force and make sense of all the phenomena associated to it, which in due time will be revealed.
@dejesusluisx I just did that for australia and you know I typed it in every way I could think of and not one site offered anything about weather or not it was real. But when you type, bible or god , or jesus and add fact or fiction, or archaeological evidence of any one of those you get pages of conflicting sites, if there was proof there'd be no argument
@dejesusluisx To shift the burden of proof to the person claiming that an invisible and untouchable, object does not exist is a cop out to avoid the fact that you have no proof. I ask this why is it wrong to doubt a eons old book about a petty vindictive god, but you think I am crazy for believing in modern day science that can be tested and proven in a lab....really I am glad I woke up , hopefully one day you will too, sorry your brain still can understand reality.
Yeshua son of Joseph? "100% love"? wasn't he the guy that cursed and murdered a defenseless fig tree? killed countless fish and ate them? controlled fungus' metabolism to do a cheap wine tricks? said he didn't come to bring peace, but the sword? to burn the world? to separate families? Neglected his own mother Mary and his sisters, said his only family were his faithful students? planned sedition? cursed his elders and leaders? performed dark resurrection magic? no?
2."The doctrine that there is no God or gods" Answers
3."the doctrine or belief that there is no God" Dictionary
4."Godlessness; immorality" American Heritage dictionary
So, atheism is the wicked and immoral doctrine or belief that there is no God. A belief not based on evidence is a faith belief by definition, and an organized faith is a religion or a cult. Therefore atheism is a cult. Open your eyes.
Beelzebub was Lord of the Flies for a reason: lord over the resurrection in flesh (zombies). Christians made those dictionaries, and Christians are notorious liars, hypocrites, and name-callers; certainly not known for their understanding, study, or smarts.
"atheist" : a word derived from the Roman pagan word "atheos" an insult for irreverent people, who refused to believe their religious absurdities.
use: "the atheos called Chrestianos were thrown to the lions."
@letsomethingshine So? We use modern definitions, if we were to base our communication in ancient dictionaries, we would not be able to understand each other...
Those aren't the modern definitions, and I use the modern definition of "100% love".
the modern definition of "atheist" was not put forth by you when quoting those 4. Atheism is understood by educated people to be the disbelieve in the claims for the reality of gods. It has nothing to do with insulting themselves. They know what they mean they they say they are atheists, you immediately look at some idol verses in unthinking books and condemn your fellow citizens.
@letsomethingshine Every dictionary has the most up to date definitions for every edition they publish, now if you have a problem with the 4 references I quoted, take it up with them, I didn't make the definitions.
@dejesusluisx The point is that some people can just quit and some can not. If god can cure your friend of his addiction why can he not heal amputees. There is no documented case what soever of anyone regrowing a limb, or being cured of any disease that could not have other wise been cured through medication, surgery and therapy. In other words wounds don't seal themselves, body parts don't regrow. Even a cancer patient who goes into remission still has healing to do.
@robtay1963 What you seek is a Genie, not God. God created a balanced universe, with laws to allow it to be, so there's no need for him to mess with it all the time. If you were to design and build a house with all the techs to have pure air inside, would you sit in the living room to smoke a cigar? If God created the universe with self regulating laws; His constant intervention would be contrary to His intention. Is not logical. God would only intervene for a supreme purpose
@dejesusluisx why wont god heal amputees, type that in as a website. It is more then just that question, it calls into play the lack of truth in the bible by showing scripture after scripture of gods promises to mankind, it shows so much else. I admit to being more agnostic then atheist until about 3 years ago when I saw this web site, I don't believe the website because it says it is right I believe it because the information can be tested and verified.
@robtay1963 Were you a Christian fundamentalist? Most fundamentalist that become skeptics, turn to atheism because fundamentalism is the wrong way to make sense of scripture. You can find thousands of reasons not to believe if you read the Bible with that purpose.
@dejesusluisx Any way I am done with these comments to you. I have shown you a lot of information you can choose to ignore it. I have read the bible and watched several videos by Ray comfort, kent hovind and others who use unverifiable sometimes laughable science to "Prove god exist"", The massive amounts real science you can find on Web provide all sorts of testable reliable evidence, I don't have a way to test god, I've never been to Australia but I know it is there because I can verify it.
@dejesusluisx Genie would be awesome if she looked like Barbra Eden did back in the late 60s though. LOL.....I believe that matter in the form of energy always existed, I believe that to believe in a being outside our space time or inside our space time that can create something from nothing is like believing in a Genie. Have a happy life.
@robtay1963 God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible God exists.
@robtay1963 Find a top predator that can re-generate a limb and you have a point. Ecosystems balance cannot have re-generation on top predators, that only occurs on entities lower on the food chain. Most Amputees freely chose to do something risky. It's free will, we have to face the consequences of our actions. God is not a genie.
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most people believe in god, because they're influenced and told to believe in him when they are children and thats is the reason why mostly every one believes in god
so, if there is a new born and nobody has told him about god and has never even heard the word god. where is god? to that boy god does not exist.
now, what if he was the first human? where is god?
god is just a statue of hope for the human race.
when people are troubled they pray. for hope of something better.
Very true, I doubt any proof would have convinced the 9/11 hijackers they were misled.
All those closed to providing proof for their beliefs share this trait with the most heinous amongst us, and is a strong contributing factor towards empowering those that would do evil while claiming to do good.
And what's wrong with saying our morals are a selected for innate social trait that increases our ability to survive and reproduce? Its less divisive.
Christian forever!!!!! I love when a really GOOD Christian calls in and makes sense! Makes us good Christians look GREAT!!!! I could never call in because I am such a believer in God that I would recruit to ague, but good for him :) U don't always need proof people, u know it in your heart and I do. Praise God!
I am in agreement with caller. I am often embarrassed by "believers". We all can discuss these things like adults, I love debate and investigating both sides. Since we only use a small percentage of our brains, it doesnt seem scientific to automatically rule God out. It is frustrating at times that as soon as a believer voices their opinion they are called ignorant, but I can see that sometimes it is their ATTITUDE that is offensive, and I have to say at one time I was guilty of that
@tannopk I truly enjoy hearing and seeing that respectful, open-minded theists exist. It really makes for good discussion and helps society progress as a whole. *side note, and I really don't mean to lessen your comment at all, but: the myth that we don't use our entire brain is, in fact, a myth; I don't off the top of my head know any sources to point you toward, but just google it and I'm sure you can find something credible
@shootomatic please just really take a look at it all, go outside and look up. go to an observatory, consider the hundereds of billions of stars and galaxys in the visible universe, listen to some alan watts lectures about nothingness, push the limits of what you're capable of understanding, feed yourself with ideas that REALLY MAKE YOU THINK. nobody knows how the universe came about, there are infinite possibilities, and you stick with essentially " some guy did it"? explain that to me.
@wantonx laugh out loud. first of all, dont use numbers like "hundreds of billions". to little are these numbers. I have looked up and studied the universe in detail, with my eyes and mind. but my friend i have reached and even deeper level of THINKING beyond science, mathematics, space, time etc.i can unify all existence including mine into a single understanding. Give yourself time and perhaps you will allow yourself to get there. its called spirituality.
@shootomatic thanks, hopefully one day I'll be enlightened enough to laugh at and patronize strangers on the internet too. Also you didn't explain what i asked you too, you just played the "spirituality" card, implying that because I don't believe in god i only consider ideas from labs, and that because you do you're some kind of warm glowing guru. I love exploring life, experiences, emotion and philosophy, but where we differ is that i admit i that I don't know how or why any of it is here.
@wantonx what do you expect? an explanation of existance to be written down for you on a piece of paper? instead you marvel in your pride. you came from dust and then from a little germ and are here for a tiny fraction of a speck of time, your existance can be wiped out in an instant. your mortal. And yet you ask me to explain to you on youtube what God is. Such a mindstate wont help your "i don't know's". you must explore my friend. Know that god is always willing if you are ;-)
@shootomatic This started when you asked atheists to explain how the universe created itself, which I thought was a silly question, but if someone had replied "i can't explain it here, it's too complicated, but I know it did, you'll get it someday" you would have thought that was silly. you say a god exists I asked you to explain and you say you can't. I'd like to continue this, but it's difficult when you're so vague, if you need more time/space, then please email me bilbofaggins@hotmail.co.uk.
@shootomatic Hello it's sad that I haven't heard anything more from you. When you say there is this god you know about etc. you're essentially saying "I know something you don't know" and then refusing to elaborate. That is why I get sucked into these things, because I always want to know what you believers know, I want to see it from your side of the fence, but I always end up disappointed because you guys always pull out of the discussion when challenged. please be the exception.
I am an atheist, and I really like these videos. I also like reading the comments, particularly when people state directly and openly "I am an atheist." We need to openly state our disbelief in superstitious nonsense to serve as role models for younger people.
@ndrthrdr1 but the people they interview are lacking of intelligence. its a bit wobbly in that sense. I could of destroyed him on at least 3 of his points.
@EmDeeEmEY hahahahahaha i come up with a perfectly good argument and all you can say is that, i look forward to the day when jesus returns and your tong along with everyone elses says he is lord, then we men of god who see the truth will say ,, lord have mercy on them , for they were stupid
@MrFollowingjesus Being open minded does not mean you must abandon reason. Unless you or anyone else can give an actual, logical reason to accept the claim that "god exists" there is nothing closed minded about rejecting your claim.
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out."
well before i became a christian i was a very close minded atheist who only cared about myself and my own glory as many atheists do, i became a christian after turning open minded and searching for the truth and not just accepting what i had been taught, and as for christians pushing their views on others , its quite the opposite , when i was at school people who believed in god was bullied and outcast and called stupid by everyone , and wasnt allowed to be accepted because of their believed in
@MrFollowingjesus Well, your school experience aside, when I was in school, I was told, rather regularly that I was going to hell and, not only that, but I deserved the eternal torture, and that those who were believers would rejoice in watching me burn forever. Kinda dickish.
Could you please tell me what part of christianity is true, that isn't also true in a secular mindset?
I actually agree with him I am disgusted by the way that the Christians who for the most part call just call to argue. I have said to many that they need to think more and use the kindness and finesse that Paul used when properly arguing with people who believe differently than yourself. I also agree that this for us who have a strong faith should help to even strengthen our faith more and may bring strength to those with a weaker faith.
• Please click my name and watch my anti-religion song. WARNING to Christians: It mocks your entire being, your pedophile leaders and all of Hypco-cristianity. So only watch it if you can handle seeing everything you believe being exposed as an evil cult...all done with wit and charm of course.
Yea, I know, I'm a Troll...but I'm really proud of the video.
One thing I encounter a lot on youtube is that people start to insult anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. Can't we all just get along and share our points of view?
@KirkMisnotfunnyatall It was "gay"? Can you explain what you mean please? Who said I was trying to change anyone's mind? I was just stating a fact and my resulting opinion that disagreement does not have to include anger and insult. You kind of proved my point.
@transtlantic I'm just sharing thoughts (it's my right you know). People can agree or disagree and they can even respond to me. That's one of the nice things about a forum like this.
" If you based all truth and reality on God instead of human intelligence, you would see it as rational and you would see denial of God as irrational. That's my opinion."
your thoughts are utter bible thumper bullshit.
"reality on god":..
god doesn't exist, dumbshit. now try get an education and stop being so fucking stupid.
@chrisryder123 Oh. Yeah, that's unfortunate because Christians are supposed to be tolerant and kind but often are the most intolerant and unkind. I am not excusing the behavior but I think people tend to think that being "right" allows them to "force" others into believing what they believe. As Christians, we're supposed to follow Jesus' example and he never tried to force anyone- he only said what he believed and allows everyone to choose for themselves.
@freehenrietta Weeeell it's not really a choice is it? Jesus said "you can do as I say or you can burn in hell for all eternity" although I'm sure it was phrased a bit more delicately than that, he always was one to mince his words.
And on a second note, you can't presuppose that Christians are "right"... they are not.
@chrisryder123 I don't think Jesus minced his words. I think he was very clear. I also think he never said "do as I say or you can burn in hell for all eternity". I think he says "I love you and I want you to go to heaven, so please make the right choice". Warning people about hell is just that: a warning. It's just like when parents tell their kids that choices can have rewards or consequences.
Also, I'm not presupposing, that's why I put "right" in quotations and used the word "think".
@freehenrietta ""I love you and I want you to go to heaven, so please make the right choice... because if you don't I'll burn you in Hell for all eternity... even though I love you".
What if I don't want his reward? Can I opt out of Heaven? It's not a reward if it is forced on you, the only other option being to burn in Hell.
I'm not sure I agree that Jesus never tried to "force" anyone. He threatened with eternal torture all those who chose not to follow him, and that's a pretty obvious example of coercion.
BTW, it's pretty disingenuous to argue that there's "choice" involved here. When one of the options is endless torture, then it's not a choice--it's extortion.
If a man with a gun walked up to you and said, "Come with me or I'll blow your brains out," would you really think to yourself, "Well, at least he's giving me a choice"?
@ClumsyRoot Umm ur quite mistaken. You're comparing 2 horrible choices to actually having a great option. Not the same thing at all. What you're saying is more like saying a parent can't teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the street because they might get hit and killed by a car if they don't (make the right choice). Is a parent extorting their children by warning them about cars that could kill them? Is it coersion? Is it threatening? No. And neither is what Jesus did.
You're missing the point. As long as one of the options involves horrible suffering, there's no real choice at all--any rational person is compelled to pick the non-horrible option. It's plain oercion.
What if a man came up to you and said, "Come with me right now, and I'll guarantee you a rich and rewarding life. But if you refuse to join me, some men will show up at your house, take you away, and torture you"? You'd have a "great option," but it would STILL be blackmail.
@ClumsyRoot First, I'd have to believe that the man has power to grant what he's offering. Second, I'd have to believe that men would come and torture me if I didn't want "riches". And, you're analogy isn't "blackmail".
I think YOU'RE missing the point. God is offering eternal bliss. He also warns that there is an alternative.
You did make a good point though (where u used a more appropriate word- "compelled"): "any rational person" knows what choice to make...yet many refuse. Y?
youtube ate my comment. =(
Oblivionic 1 month ago
I find it a bit ironic for christians like this caller who claim to think about the challenges raised by atheists seriously and strengthen their beliefs by it...if they have seriously thought about it and still leave with a strong conviction, then they are still not thinking critically and continue to be self deluded, all the while claiming to have defeated the arguments because they've 'thought about it'.
n800064447 1 month ago
@n800064447 Accepting God allows christians to refute reason. The nature of the supernatural is beyond understanding. God is supernatural, and therefore beyond understanding. Heck, the bible even says so. This is the core of their belief, and impervious to the reasoning of man. Even should you destroy every argument they create as 'proof', they've already made up their mind that something exists beyond knowledge. This is faith, the very antithesis to reason.
Oblivionic 1 month ago
And yes it said god told people to rape and kill stop trying to deny what is said the one only reason why you could still be christian.
a084123 1 month ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
Finaly another smart and open minded christian now thats what everyone likes to see.He is right if you cant understand or try to understand then whats the point most atheists were christians that got deeper into the bible and use there free will and moral to see it right or wrong.Christians that just tell people that they have not read the bible just means they only believe in what they think.christians with open minds are called fake christians cause they use there own free will.
a084123 1 month ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
Your problem isn't with God, is with man made dogmas created in our quest to understand God. You're confused because you try to get all the answers at the same time. You need to solve one problem at a time. Solve the first one and then we can move to the others. Could an immaterial conscious being, or a form of conscious energy, create the universe? Is there any possibility for that? yes/no? If not, why not.
Is there any possibility of God existing in any possible world?
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx First, you need to ask yourself, how could anything immaterial have consciousness or even be considered a "being?" Why do you feel like the universe needs to be "created" when you are perfectly okay with "God" just existing? Wouldn't that "God" need a creator as well? If not, then why can't the universe just exist?
CntthnkO15 2 months ago
@CntthnkO15 ""how could anything immaterial have consciousness"" Did you know scientists suggest that our consciousness arise from our brains ability to accumulate more information than animals? Did you know that all human knowledge, all information, cel phone conversations, TV shows, movies, all that mankind has ever produced is flowing through you body in the form of waves? Energy waves contain billions of times more information than what our brains can store, so wave energy can be conscious.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
I totally agree. The problem is not with God, as we, atheists do not believe he exists, but with religions and above all with religions held as ideologies. The question of an eventual "conscience" guiding the laws of the universe(s) is another question going beyond this debate about religions. And until now, no scientifical has been given. And maybe will never be.
maotzetof 2 months ago
@maotzetof Your religion doesn't matter, what matters is that you become one with the Lord, that you're in His same wavelength, living in grace. Religion is a tool to know God, not a goal. You can get to the same place without religion, although might take you more time and effort. Jesus was brought as a means to facilitate that journey, a role model, a message, the incarnated verb. Religion is important because to get somewhere a map is always helpful, but not indispensable if God guides you.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "You can get to the same place without religion, although might take you more time and effort." You have any proof that religion makes you a good person faster? How much faster do you become a better human being?
feuchster 2 months ago
@feuchster If you attend an organized spiritual weekend retreat, you'll know. If you are open minded, you can be a new person, transformed and born again in a weekend.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Transformed and born again in what way?
feuchster 2 months ago
@feuchster If the Holy Spirit acts and you a endowed with sanctifying grace, you'll be in a higher spiritual level, you will feel connected to the divine and all your perspective of life will change. I changed my moral views, my music tastes, I felt relief, inspired, unafraid of death, forgiving, free of enemies and hate. You won't miss any of your past life, because you'll be in a higher plane, auto realized, complete. I was a gadget person, very materialistic, all that is gone.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@feuchster I have a friend that was a heroin addict, living in the street, begging for money. In one night of prayer at church, the addition was gone and he was re-born as a Christian. Now he plays in a music ministry and writes poetry. He's the humblest nicest person you will know. Have another friend that has been in methadone therapy many years and still not cured. Living in God's grace can produce miracles. Is not enough just to believe, you have to let yourself go and accept God to fill you
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Here's the thing, there have been people who have went through the same things your friend has been through and has quit cold turkey like he did.
And i'm kind of frightened of who you are, you need an excuse to not fear death, change your moral values, to be inspired, forgiving, free of hate etc. That's disgusting, if you need some form thought that consists of a deity to have those feelings, that's sad, i'm sorry.
feuchster 2 months ago
@feuchster "has quit cold turkey like he did" My friend told me he didn't got sick or had any urges right after he felt the presence of the Holy Spirit. I don't see any reason why he would lie, I didn't even asked for him to give me his testimony. He was very sincere, and he is so convinced he was cured that same night he dedicated his life to serve the lord.
Are you saying you are free of hate, that you would forgive anyone that cause you harm and aren't materialistic?
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx delusional people are also very sincere in their beliefs - how can you determine what is insane and what is not insane based only on sincerity?
MagnusNyborg 2 months ago
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@MagnusNyborg "how can you determine what is insane and what is not insane based only on sincerity?" So by their fruits you will know them - Mat 7:20
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
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@dejesusluisx And there are people who will tell you "john frum" is real. Are you of a cargo cult? I thought not. But they believe just as strongly as you do, they will say it's fact and that they have evidence for it. People who are delusional can be very sincere, it proves nothing.
Would i forgive someone who has caused me harm? It really depends on the circumstances and whether they meant to do so or not.
feuchster 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Years ago my 2 sons were using Heroin, both were addicts. My Older one saw what it was doing to his life and decided to just quit, he is and was an atheist. He never got sick and cravings stopped in a couple days and that was years ago and he has never used since then. My second born who is a year younger tried quitting several times and got sick everytime, he finally ended up in jail for months and still needed meds after he got out. Finally threw meds he quit, and aint gone back
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "both were addicts" did you grew then in a home full of the love of God? did you pray with them every day? did they did weekend retreats and had church going friends?
I'm not saying you can't be cured from drugs in any other way, my point is that 1. the best way to avoid the destruction of a family is to live in the love of God 2. if your family is already destroyed, the best way to restore it is with the love of God filling all your life and all your actions.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Yes for a time until my divorce. Funny the one who needed help still believes in god and the one who quit cold turkey was an atheist at the time and still is. I will say this though, Atheist are very insulted when you tell them they are incapable of loving others, I find your biblical god immoral, he does things I find sick and repulsive. I am a good person, and believing in god would not make me a better person, indeed it would waste my time and money that I put to better use
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 If you love someone, contribute to society, learn new things everyday, try to keep yourself healthy, see nature and find beauty in it, smile at an innocent joke, and if you think being alive is wonderful; then God is with you. The free will you're exercising now was a gift from God. You can be sure that the greatest joy you can feel is nothing compared to the happiness you'll feel if you truly and convincingly accepts Jesus as your savior. Life gets a new meaning in love
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx I did that for a long time, but I started learning that the science I was told was wrong by my church leaders was in fact all true. I learned that the bible is very historically inaccurate. Also I have read the bible and so as I have said, I know there is no god and I have no need for one to be happy, however even if the bible were true I would not worship such an egotistical, sexist, genocidal, Sadistic, megalomaniac, insecure being as the God of the bible. Men made up all gods!!!
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "was in fact all true" the fact your leaders were narrow minded fundamentalists, doesn't disprove God. "the bible is very historically inaccurate" regarding what exactly?
People throughout the ages have been confused about God and had created weird dogmas to describe Him. There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx I feel sorry for you if your self esteem is so low the only way you can feel good about yourself is to stroke the ego of your invisible friend. I personally feel way more whole and complete as an atheist then I ever did as a christian, and I am more moral then any christian because I don't pay homage to some sick being of whom, if the bible were true, often ordered the slaughter of children and the rape of teenage girls, if you read OT and want to love that god you are not moral
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 Where do we go from here? We are in a crucial point in human evolution. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish animal behavior is the next step in consciousness. Only our Free Will is in the way. Atheism rejects Jesus as a role model. This represents a step back in consciousness.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Again as I have said atheist are not immoral in anyway, Some people who are atheist do horrible things, as well as some people who are Christians can do terrible things. Your god first is a fairy tale made up by primitive men. Second Even he were real he is evil and not worthy of being worshiped. Judges 21 is just one morbid chapter in you book of moral authority, there are hundreds if you choose to read them, I am not perfect but I am way more moral the the pretend god you worship
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 The people of ancient times live a life of murder and wars, that wasn't God ordering those deaths in Judges 21, those lives were taken by men with a lower consciousness level.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx as to where do we go from here, I don't have a need to believe we go anywhere, I have excepted that life is Finite and I will one day be dead. I enjoy the life I have no way more, no I don't go out and do horrible things or cheat on my wife, neither do I live in fear of an evil being who might decided to torment me forever....How sick and evil is this god you claim exist, I am glad logic and reason finally kicked in. Would you serve a tyrant??? While according to you, you are.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 Now way more,,,,error correction...I enjoy my life now more that I don't worry about spaghetti monsters wrath
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""Would you serve a tyrant?"" No, my God isn't a tyrant. Is a God of justice and love. You are just blind to the reasons He might have to impart justice.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Read judges 21 plus google rape in the bible, see all the horrible atrocities god orders. Would you let a serial rapist take care of your 12 year old daughter while you went on vacation because he claimed he was nicer now... That is what christians do when they read the OT the say ,"But Jesus came to abolish the old laws", No he did not according to the bible and even if he did being nice today does not atone for ordering slaughter of innocent children and rape of virgins. sick god
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 We don't know if God indeed ordered the killings or He was just used as an excuse by the ruthless rulers of the time.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Based on what I know of history those events never really took place at all. I don't believe the bible is true. It has a few real places and a few real People but the events are all just made up by ruthless people who wanted to control the masses....But my point was to any one who says the bible is all true then yes according to it God did indeed order these things. You sound like me 17 years ago, Look at it this way you already don't believe in a 1000 gods, just one more to go
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""You sound like me 17 years ago"" and you sound like me 5 yrs ago, but I discovered the truth. ""you already don't believe in a 1000 gods, just one more to go"" There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Good luck on shaking off the last false god....goodbye,
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 I was a non-believer and found the truth. Since humans stepped out of the caves, we were constantly expanding our circle of love to include more people. We now reject genocide, racism and incest, things that were common centuries ago. We are in a crucial point in our development. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish instincts and materialism is the next step. Rejecting Jesus which represents 100% love as a role model, is a step back for our consciousness
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Take away the part about jesus and you sound like characters from StarGate; SG1 , a race we humans call the ancients, they ascended to a higher plain of existence. I believe is seeking knowledge and expanding our minds, but I don't believe we need a god to do that. I have come to believe that what is real is what we can prove and test and so far no one has proven a god exist. But you have a right to believe what you want.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 The same way an electrician must understand electricity before peeling the wires, you should understand God before committing to question His existence. Understand the deep theological knowledge of the Christ teachings, the sacraments, the life and contributions of the saints, the meaning of existence, the history of the Church, God's revelations to all mankind, and then, integrate that knowledge. Only then you can be ready to get real answers to life's questions.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx except that like the people on stargate, god and jesus are fictional.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "god and jesus are fictional" Prove it. All claims require evidence, mine and yours. The difference is that claims without evidence are faith claims, and I don't mind at all saying I base my claims on faith and therefore they are religious claims. Now if you don't mind being part of a cult and having atheism label as a religion, keep posting and don't get any evidence, Mr. cult member; but if you do, then get the evidence for your claim or shut up!!!
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx actually you are wrong. I mean if I said I had a Unicorn that was invisible and untouchable in my back yard but it could grant wishes, but only occasionally and always slowly , never mountian moving type miracles that could be verified and tested, I would have to prove it. But if you said I did not have one of those you would not have to prove my unicorn was not real...You are making a claim that a being that can not be proven scientifically exist, you need to show me proof.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 It was you who said God and Jesus are fictional. That is a positive statement, a claim, so you need to provide evidence for that claim.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx You are very wrong of course, by logical and scientific standards the burden of proof in on the person making the claim, yes I said god did not exist because of lack of proof. You can not say Dragons and magical unicorns exist because I can not prove them wrong....You claim there is a country called Australia, you can prove it by providing modern day evidence such as a video or even taking me there, So prove your god exist in a way that can be tested scientifically.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "the burden of proof in on the person making the claim" yes, I know that, that is why I ask for evidence of your claim that God doesn't exist.
"yes I said god did not exist because of lack of proof" absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So you still ow us evidence or an apology.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx You don't get it do you. I don't claim anything. You claim there is a god so the burden of proof in on you for making a claim. You can disagree with that statement but it does make it logical. Answer this question, do I also have to prove to you that Fire breathing dragons and magical unicorns don't exist.... I am open minded and would love testable proof of god. If you make a claim that something is real you must prove it if you want people to believe it is real.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""I don't claim anything"" you did, two days ago you claimed: "god and jesus are fictional", that is indeed a claim. Are you going to deny you posted this? That was you claim, do you have evidence?
I have many arguments that support God's existence but the evidence is personal, and you'll get it only if you decide to look for it.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Search Australia is fictional, then search for any other thing for which you know there is no dispute over, you won't find much or anything coherent or sensible. If there was any real tangible proof of god there would be no debate. And as far as needing to believe on faith, that is a cop out, according to many fictional acounts in the KJV many 1000s saw proof. If we knew god were real we would still have free will to serve him or not. I help my fellow man but out of choice not fear
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""Search Australia is fictional"" is irrelevant. ""I help my fellow man but out of choice not fear"" I don't help anyone out of fear. Good for you, that means God is acting in you, he is inspiring you, what you need to do is to establish a communication.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Yes I did that for the first 32 years of my life and he never answered back, nothing has really changed in my personal life these past 16 years except I have more free time, and more money. I hope you are happy with your life, I can only say I would have given in to logic and reason a long time before I did if I had the internet back then....I can not see anyone finding the ease of information and videos that educate like these videos do and still holding on to bronze age myth,
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 I had seen them all and there is nothing to them, they are baseless arguments, there is no evidence against the existence of God, not one good argument that can stand a first round of rebuttal, watch the debates of Dr. Crag or Dr. Lennox (among others) and you'll see. Give me just one, one good argument that any reasonable person can say: yeah, God can't exist, and if can't give you a logical reason as to why is so, I'll concede. I have more than enough personal evidence
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx OH i have seen Dr crag and he is the funniest comic since Steve martins stand up days.....I have seen a few of his videos, but see he is a Dr of theology, which is not science, Hey if I have a question about the meaning of a bible verses I would call Dr Crag, not Richard Dawkins , but if I have a question about evolution then I will call Richard Dawkins No Dr crag or Dr dino kent hovind.
robtay1963 1 month ago
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robtay1963 1 month ago
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@robtay1963 Dr Crag and Dr Dino should go to vegas, they would be the best comedy duo since Martin and Lewis, oh no wait that won't work, for a comedy team to be funny one of them has to at least be able to appear smart....
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""a question about evolution then I will call Richard Dawkins"" Bad choice, he hasn't produce anything of relevant in his field. In order for the selfish gene theory to hold water, it relies on the assumption that environmental changes affects gene selection. That's something similar to Lamarck's theory 200 yrs ago. No proof for such a mechanism has been found. Dawkins made himself famous with a bogus theory and no evidence to support it, just in the name of atheism.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Be happy with your false god ok, I personally would not worship the KJV god even if he were real. I thank the great Norse God Odin that science has progressed beyond humans need for an invisible man in the sky to explain why we don't all die every night when the sun sinks into the ocean....And you are funny to tell me to listen to Dr Crag, but say Dawkins does not know what he is talking about...LOL.....
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "say Dawkins does not know what he is talking about...LOL....." I never said that. If you want to continue with your ways is your choice. But there's an alternative. God is real. You will not hear a voice from the ski or see a light, this message is all you'll get. Reason can get you close but only faith get you in. Don't loose your soul trying to win silly arguments, isn't worth it.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx never said that. If you want to continue with your ways is your choice. But there's an alternative. The purple monkeyelephant is real. You will not hear a voice from the ski or see a light, this message is all you'll get. Reason can get you close but only faith get you in. Don't loose your soul trying to win silly arguments, isn't worth it.
I can make the exact same message based on faith of another idea. Your argument holds no water if it isn't based on proof.
feuchster 1 month ago
@feuchster ""if it isn't based on proof"" is based on proof, a proof I know and you need to find out...
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx " keep an open mind, "you have a closed heart", "you have a closed mind" etc..
The catch phrases of thousands of faiths. Pay attention to that number "thousands", that's why we don't take things on faith, we need proof.
feuchster 1 month ago
@feuchster You get your proof only if you look for it, are you looking?
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx i looked for it the first 5 years of my life, then my brain started to function and i didn't believe in fairytales no more.
Sm0k4bl3 1 week ago
@Sm0k4bl3 Don't lose your soul just trying to be funny in a meaningless blog, it isn't worth it...
dejesusluisx 1 week ago
@dejesusluisx how am i losing my soul? I'm just telling it how it is. Tell me, you obviously believe we are created by your God, because we can't magically appear out of nothing, right?
Sm0k4bl3 1 week ago
@dejesusluisx (Dawkins made himself famous with a bogus theory).Last time I paraphrased, to say someone had a bogus theory means they are not correct.Duh!..Faith that the sun will rise again is based on common sense as it has risen everyday of my life, faith in a 2000 year old book from several cultures that steals many of it's myths from even older more obscure texts is just plain silly. Claiming faith without conviction is Pascals wager. I simply have to much information to ever truly believe
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""to say someone had a bogus theory means they are not correct.Duh!.."" I was talking about the selfish gene theory. ""I simply have to much information to ever truly believe"" that isn't a bad thing if you keep an open mind, the more doubts you have, the more astonish you will be when you can answer all of them if you see the light. The key is not to close your heart and mind to the possibility.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx No about australia what I am saying is no on dispute what all know to be real even if you have never touched or seen something that everyone knows to be real. I guess I am saying if god were real no one would argue his existence, that would be silly. When you can quantify god and show he exist in a scientific way then people will believe. As for him working in me I hope not because if he were real and of KJV i would not want him in me and would have him removed he is evil...
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""I am saying if god were real no one would argue his existence, that would be silly"" Is an unfair comparison, why don't you try love? or beauty? or consciousness?, furthermore, try scientific concepts like entanglement or even some question the existence of matter all together. I could even make a case for gravity not existing since gravity is the bend of space-time and a bend doesn't exists as an object, only exist the object that bends, and the one bent.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx I won't be able to chat as the Enterprise is beaming me up in about 20 minutes, and once we hit warp 8 only our subspace communicators will reach earth. At that point us crew members are only allowed 30 minutes a day of internet use and I don't want to waste mine arguing with a person who believes in made up science because it supports his Evil god theory. Well so long I have to put on my anti gravity boots since Mr. Scott told be the artificial gravity is on the fritz
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 Running away scared?
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Okay okay you win, I will admit god exist and devote my whole life to him, after you prove gravity does not exist and walk off a 40 story building with nothing but normal clothes on you back, if you continue walking just like the coyote used too in the Road Runner cartoons, It will make international news and many millions of atheist will turn to god.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 ""after you prove gravity does not exist"" a free falling object is at it's inertial state, look it up. Gravity doen't exists the way currently described as a force on it's own like electromagnetism or strong force, because the way is currently described is as a non-entity, as a bend. Now having said that, there is another explanation for it that do describes it as a force and make sense of all the phenomena associated to it, which in due time will be revealed.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx I just did that for australia and you know I typed it in every way I could think of and not one site offered anything about weather or not it was real. But when you type, bible or god , or jesus and add fact or fiction, or archaeological evidence of any one of those you get pages of conflicting sites, if there was proof there'd be no argument
robtay1963 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx To shift the burden of proof to the person claiming that an invisible and untouchable, object does not exist is a cop out to avoid the fact that you have no proof. I ask this why is it wrong to doubt a eons old book about a petty vindictive god, but you think I am crazy for believing in modern day science that can be tested and proven in a lab....really I am glad I woke up , hopefully one day you will too, sorry your brain still can understand reality.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 "hopefully one day you will too" I did, I was a non-believer for almost 30 yrs.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx
Yeshua son of Joseph? "100% love"? wasn't he the guy that cursed and murdered a defenseless fig tree? killed countless fish and ate them? controlled fungus' metabolism to do a cheap wine tricks? said he didn't come to bring peace, but the sword? to burn the world? to separate families? Neglected his own mother Mary and his sisters, said his only family were his faithful students? planned sedition? cursed his elders and leaders? performed dark resurrection magic? no?
letsomethingshine 1 month ago
@letsomethingshine Atheism:
1."ungodliness, wickedness" Merriam-Webster
2."The doctrine that there is no God or gods" Answers
3."the doctrine or belief that there is no God" Dictionary
4."Godlessness; immorality" American Heritage dictionary
So, atheism is the wicked and immoral doctrine or belief that there is no God. A belief not based on evidence is a faith belief by definition, and an organized faith is a religion or a cult. Therefore atheism is a cult. Open your eyes.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx
Beelzebub was Lord of the Flies for a reason: lord over the resurrection in flesh (zombies). Christians made those dictionaries, and Christians are notorious liars, hypocrites, and name-callers; certainly not known for their understanding, study, or smarts.
"atheist" : a word derived from the Roman pagan word "atheos" an insult for irreverent people, who refused to believe their religious absurdities.
use: "the atheos called Chrestianos were thrown to the lions."
letsomethingshine 1 month ago
@letsomethingshine So? We use modern definitions, if we were to base our communication in ancient dictionaries, we would not be able to understand each other...
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx
Those aren't the modern definitions, and I use the modern definition of "100% love".
the modern definition of "atheist" was not put forth by you when quoting those 4. Atheism is understood by educated people to be the disbelieve in the claims for the reality of gods. It has nothing to do with insulting themselves. They know what they mean they they say they are atheists, you immediately look at some idol verses in unthinking books and condemn your fellow citizens.
letsomethingshine 1 month ago
@letsomethingshine Every dictionary has the most up to date definitions for every edition they publish, now if you have a problem with the 4 references I quoted, take it up with them, I didn't make the definitions.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx The point is that some people can just quit and some can not. If god can cure your friend of his addiction why can he not heal amputees. There is no documented case what soever of anyone regrowing a limb, or being cured of any disease that could not have other wise been cured through medication, surgery and therapy. In other words wounds don't seal themselves, body parts don't regrow. Even a cancer patient who goes into remission still has healing to do.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 What you seek is a Genie, not God. God created a balanced universe, with laws to allow it to be, so there's no need for him to mess with it all the time. If you were to design and build a house with all the techs to have pure air inside, would you sit in the living room to smoke a cigar? If God created the universe with self regulating laws; His constant intervention would be contrary to His intention. Is not logical. God would only intervene for a supreme purpose
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx why wont god heal amputees, type that in as a website. It is more then just that question, it calls into play the lack of truth in the bible by showing scripture after scripture of gods promises to mankind, it shows so much else. I admit to being more agnostic then atheist until about 3 years ago when I saw this web site, I don't believe the website because it says it is right I believe it because the information can be tested and verified.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 Were you a Christian fundamentalist? Most fundamentalist that become skeptics, turn to atheism because fundamentalism is the wrong way to make sense of scripture. You can find thousands of reasons not to believe if you read the Bible with that purpose.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
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@dejesusluisx Any way I am done with these comments to you. I have shown you a lot of information you can choose to ignore it. I have read the bible and watched several videos by Ray comfort, kent hovind and others who use unverifiable sometimes laughable science to "Prove god exist"", The massive amounts real science you can find on Web provide all sorts of testable reliable evidence, I don't have a way to test god, I've never been to Australia but I know it is there because I can verify it.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Genie would be awesome if she looked like Barbra Eden did back in the late 60s though. LOL.....I believe that matter in the form of energy always existed, I believe that to believe in a being outside our space time or inside our space time that can create something from nothing is like believing in a Genie. Have a happy life.
robtay1963 1 month ago
@robtay1963 God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible God exists.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@robtay1963 Find a top predator that can re-generate a limb and you have a point. Ecosystems balance cannot have re-generation on top predators, that only occurs on entities lower on the food chain. Most Amputees freely chose to do something risky. It's free will, we have to face the consequences of our actions. God is not a genie.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
most people believe in god, because they're influenced and told to believe in him when they are children and thats is the reason why mostly every one believes in god
so, if there is a new born and nobody has told him about god and has never even heard the word god. where is god? to that boy god does not exist.
now, what if he was the first human? where is god?
god is just a statue of hope for the human race.
when people are troubled they pray. for hope of something better.
sepdancer1 5 months ago
@sepdancer1
Nice. To quote the wonderful Richard Dawkings:
" We should not teach children what to think. But teach them how to think."
TheLordHodne 4 months ago
"Those that believe, need no proof."
Very true, I doubt any proof would have convinced the 9/11 hijackers they were misled.
All those closed to providing proof for their beliefs share this trait with the most heinous amongst us, and is a strong contributing factor towards empowering those that would do evil while claiming to do good.
And what's wrong with saying our morals are a selected for innate social trait that increases our ability to survive and reproduce? Its less divisive.
Highlyskeptical 5 months ago
God creates dinosours
God destroys dinosaurs
God creates man
Man destroys God
Man creates dinosaurs
Dinosaurs eat man
charliepheonix 5 months ago
@charliepheonix women inherite the earth? O.o
SamuraixJack 5 months ago
@SamuraixJack you know your quotes
charliepheonix 5 months ago
@charliepheonix is that the script of Jurassic park 4 ?lol
ThinkerResearcher 5 months ago
@ThinkerResearcher ha Jurassic park 1
charliepheonix 5 months ago
Christian forever!!!!! I love when a really GOOD Christian calls in and makes sense! Makes us good Christians look GREAT!!!! I could never call in because I am such a believer in God that I would recruit to ague, but good for him :) U don't always need proof people, u know it in your heart and I do. Praise God!
83redrose83 6 months ago
Keep telling yourself that, over and over and over and over again, and maybe someday you'll actually believe it! :)
ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@ClumsyRoot I believe it now, thanx!
83redrose83 5 months ago
now THERE is a man who properly represents christianity.
aerohawkproductions 6 months ago
I am in agreement with caller. I am often embarrassed by "believers". We all can discuss these things like adults, I love debate and investigating both sides. Since we only use a small percentage of our brains, it doesnt seem scientific to automatically rule God out. It is frustrating at times that as soon as a believer voices their opinion they are called ignorant, but I can see that sometimes it is their ATTITUDE that is offensive, and I have to say at one time I was guilty of that
tannopk 6 months ago
@tannopk I truly enjoy hearing and seeing that respectful, open-minded theists exist. It really makes for good discussion and helps society progress as a whole. *side note, and I really don't mean to lessen your comment at all, but: the myth that we don't use our entire brain is, in fact, a myth; I don't off the top of my head know any sources to point you toward, but just google it and I'm sure you can find something credible
unusintersepes 6 months ago
If the world was like youtube commen..... Oh wait it is.
jarfilli 6 months ago
Good man. I like Gabe. There are very few normal callers to this show, lol
skywize 7 months ago
IF the universe doesnt have a creator (ie. god) then you think the universe created itself? can you explain that atheist?
shootomatic 7 months ago
@shootomatic That's what physicists and astronomers are working on this very minute.
NevermoreJones 7 months ago
@shootomatic
can you explain who created your ( imaginary ) creator ?
NefariousVirtuoso88 7 months ago
@shootomatic please just really take a look at it all, go outside and look up. go to an observatory, consider the hundereds of billions of stars and galaxys in the visible universe, listen to some alan watts lectures about nothingness, push the limits of what you're capable of understanding, feed yourself with ideas that REALLY MAKE YOU THINK. nobody knows how the universe came about, there are infinite possibilities, and you stick with essentially " some guy did it"? explain that to me.
wantonx 7 months ago
@wantonx Excellent rant! I've read the Grand Design by Stephen Hawking and he makes some really good points.
FallofDarkness55 7 months ago
@wantonx laugh out loud. first of all, dont use numbers like "hundreds of billions". to little are these numbers. I have looked up and studied the universe in detail, with my eyes and mind. but my friend i have reached and even deeper level of THINKING beyond science, mathematics, space, time etc.i can unify all existence including mine into a single understanding. Give yourself time and perhaps you will allow yourself to get there. its called spirituality.
shootomatic 7 months ago
@shootomatic thanks, hopefully one day I'll be enlightened enough to laugh at and patronize strangers on the internet too. Also you didn't explain what i asked you too, you just played the "spirituality" card, implying that because I don't believe in god i only consider ideas from labs, and that because you do you're some kind of warm glowing guru. I love exploring life, experiences, emotion and philosophy, but where we differ is that i admit i that I don't know how or why any of it is here.
wantonx 7 months ago
@wantonx what do you expect? an explanation of existance to be written down for you on a piece of paper? instead you marvel in your pride. you came from dust and then from a little germ and are here for a tiny fraction of a speck of time, your existance can be wiped out in an instant. your mortal. And yet you ask me to explain to you on youtube what God is. Such a mindstate wont help your "i don't know's". you must explore my friend. Know that god is always willing if you are ;-)
shootomatic 7 months ago
@shootomatic This started when you asked atheists to explain how the universe created itself, which I thought was a silly question, but if someone had replied "i can't explain it here, it's too complicated, but I know it did, you'll get it someday" you would have thought that was silly. you say a god exists I asked you to explain and you say you can't. I'd like to continue this, but it's difficult when you're so vague, if you need more time/space, then please email me bilbofaggins@hotmail.co.uk.
wantonx 7 months ago
@shootomatic Hello it's sad that I haven't heard anything more from you. When you say there is this god you know about etc. you're essentially saying "I know something you don't know" and then refusing to elaborate. That is why I get sucked into these things, because I always want to know what you believers know, I want to see it from your side of the fence, but I always end up disappointed because you guys always pull out of the discussion when challenged. please be the exception.
wantonx 7 months ago
I am an atheist, and I really like these videos. I also like reading the comments, particularly when people state directly and openly "I am an atheist." We need to openly state our disbelief in superstitious nonsense to serve as role models for younger people.
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 I am an atheist. No one ever thinks that a patriot is an atheist. Screw you, George Herbert Walker Bush!
PatrioticEagle50 7 months ago 2
@ndrthrdr1 but the people they interview are lacking of intelligence. its a bit wobbly in that sense. I could of destroyed him on at least 3 of his points.
shootomatic 7 months ago
@BigLundi i ment that people only accuse christians of this, but from my and many others experience it is true that everyone does this
MrFollowingjesus 7 months ago
@EmDeeEmEY hahahahahaha i come up with a perfectly good argument and all you can say is that, i look forward to the day when jesus returns and your tong along with everyone elses says he is lord, then we men of god who see the truth will say ,, lord have mercy on them , for they were stupid
MrFollowingjesus 7 months ago
@MrFollowingjesus Being open minded does not mean you must abandon reason. Unless you or anyone else can give an actual, logical reason to accept the claim that "god exists" there is nothing closed minded about rejecting your claim.
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out."
~Carl Sagan
thoughtsnatcher 8 months ago
well before i became a christian i was a very close minded atheist who only cared about myself and my own glory as many atheists do, i became a christian after turning open minded and searching for the truth and not just accepting what i had been taught, and as for christians pushing their views on others , its quite the opposite , when i was at school people who believed in god was bullied and outcast and called stupid by everyone , and wasnt allowed to be accepted because of their believed in
MrFollowingjesus 8 months ago
@MrFollowingjesus Well, your school experience aside, when I was in school, I was told, rather regularly that I was going to hell and, not only that, but I deserved the eternal torture, and that those who were believers would rejoice in watching me burn forever. Kinda dickish.
Could you please tell me what part of christianity is true, that isn't also true in a secular mindset?
BigLundi 7 months ago
@freehenrietta No, because some people are soooo sure that they are right, they are not really listening just waiting for their turn to talk.
Plus most Theists do not really care whether their beliefs are true or not, they care more about defending them or pushing them.
shandcunt 8 months ago
@shandcunt Exactly!
shimwah 8 months ago
Look at my god, my god is amazing, give it a lick, it tastes just like raisins.
WolfySnackrib666 8 months ago
I actually agree with him I am disgusted by the way that the Christians who for the most part call just call to argue. I have said to many that they need to think more and use the kindness and finesse that Paul used when properly arguing with people who believe differently than yourself. I also agree that this for us who have a strong faith should help to even strengthen our faith more and may bring strength to those with a weaker faith.
2ravenf0x2 9 months ago
I am willing to pray for this program to be broadcasted nationally... yes I am that desperate. :D
akulabite 9 months ago
@CO2Junkie You see, only 4 thumbs up. Can you see the difference between 4 and dozens?
MrRichardKranium 9 months ago
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• Please click my name and watch my anti-religion song. WARNING to Christians: It mocks your entire being, your pedophile leaders and all of Hypco-cristianity. So only watch it if you can handle seeing everything you believe being exposed as an evil cult...all done with wit and charm of course.
Yea, I know, I'm a Troll...but I'm really proud of the video.
AtheistSongs 9 months ago
One thing I encounter a lot on youtube is that people start to insult anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. Can't we all just get along and share our points of view?
freehenrietta 9 months ago 31
@freehenrietta no. Its against human nature to not be ignorant to difference.
Zadeass 8 months ago
@freehenrietta that was very gay and isnt going to change anyones mind about anything
KirkMisnotfunnyatall 8 months ago
@KirkMisnotfunnyatall It was "gay"? Can you explain what you mean please? Who said I was trying to change anyone's mind? I was just stating a fact and my resulting opinion that disagreement does not have to include anger and insult. You kind of proved my point.
freehenrietta 8 months ago
@freehenrietta
so if you are not trying to change anyones mind...why the fuck are you being a bible thumper idiot?
transtlantic 8 months ago
@transtlantic I'm just sharing thoughts (it's my right you know). People can agree or disagree and they can even respond to me. That's one of the nice things about a forum like this.
Bible thumper? Who said anything about the Bible?
freehenrietta 8 months ago
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@freehenrietta
you said and i quote:
" If you based all truth and reality on God instead of human intelligence, you would see it as rational and you would see denial of God as irrational. That's my opinion."
your thoughts are utter bible thumper bullshit.
"reality on god":..
god doesn't exist, dumbshit. now try get an education and stop being so fucking stupid.
transtlantic 8 months ago
@freehenrietta No, you are wrong and stupid!!! :)
shimwah 8 months ago
@shimwah
You son of a bitch, he's right, stop arguing!!!
Charmolution 8 months ago
@Charmolution I was only joking with freehen.
shimwah 8 months ago
@freehenrietta No, because arguing leads to vindication, which is one of life's many pleasures.
BigLundi 7 months ago
@freehenrietta no lol. jk we really should get along, we try.....
taj561 7 months ago
@freehenrietta shut the fuck up
Hereticofreason 7 months ago
@freehenrietta fuck you! believe in god or he will kill you! (don't tell god i emailed you! i'm scared.)
dkthg 7 months ago
@freehenrietta lmao you're such an idiot pacifist loser
idiallin 7 months ago
@idiallin lol. Thanks.
freehenrietta 7 months ago
@freehenrietta
lol...more people saying that you are a moronic loser.
go finish elementary school, retard.
transtlantic 7 months ago
@transtlantic It's a good thing I value your opinions. lol
freehenrietta 7 months ago
@freehenrietta
go finish elementary school, dumbshit.
try get this for once:
REALITY is not a matter of opinion.
Species evolve, the earth is not flat and god doesn't exist - all facts.
your personal opinion based upon religious delusion are utterly horse shit.
now fuck off.
transtlantic 7 months ago
@freehenrietta You don't know many Christians do you? :p
chrisryder123 6 months ago
@chrisryder123 What do u mean?
freehenrietta 6 months ago
@freehenrietta What I meant was, getting along with other peoples point of view has never been any Christian's strongest virtue.
chrisryder123 6 months ago
@chrisryder123 Oh. Yeah, that's unfortunate because Christians are supposed to be tolerant and kind but often are the most intolerant and unkind. I am not excusing the behavior but I think people tend to think that being "right" allows them to "force" others into believing what they believe. As Christians, we're supposed to follow Jesus' example and he never tried to force anyone- he only said what he believed and allows everyone to choose for themselves.
freehenrietta 6 months ago
@freehenrietta Weeeell it's not really a choice is it? Jesus said "you can do as I say or you can burn in hell for all eternity" although I'm sure it was phrased a bit more delicately than that, he always was one to mince his words.
And on a second note, you can't presuppose that Christians are "right"... they are not.
chrisryder123 6 months ago
@chrisryder123 I don't think Jesus minced his words. I think he was very clear. I also think he never said "do as I say or you can burn in hell for all eternity". I think he says "I love you and I want you to go to heaven, so please make the right choice". Warning people about hell is just that: a warning. It's just like when parents tell their kids that choices can have rewards or consequences.
Also, I'm not presupposing, that's why I put "right" in quotations and used the word "think".
freehenrietta 6 months ago
@freehenrietta ""I love you and I want you to go to heaven, so please make the right choice... because if you don't I'll burn you in Hell for all eternity... even though I love you".
What if I don't want his reward? Can I opt out of Heaven? It's not a reward if it is forced on you, the only other option being to burn in Hell.
Sounds like a great God you have.
chrisryder123 6 months ago
@freehenrietta
I'm not sure I agree that Jesus never tried to "force" anyone. He threatened with eternal torture all those who chose not to follow him, and that's a pretty obvious example of coercion.
ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@ClumsyRoot When did Jesus "threaten with eternal torture"?
freehenrietta 5 months ago
@freehenrietta
Matthew 18:8 and 25:46, for starters.
ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@freehenrietta
BTW, it's pretty disingenuous to argue that there's "choice" involved here. When one of the options is endless torture, then it's not a choice--it's extortion.
If a man with a gun walked up to you and said, "Come with me or I'll blow your brains out," would you really think to yourself, "Well, at least he's giving me a choice"?
ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@ClumsyRoot Umm ur quite mistaken. You're comparing 2 horrible choices to actually having a great option. Not the same thing at all. What you're saying is more like saying a parent can't teach their kids to look both ways before crossing the street because they might get hit and killed by a car if they don't (make the right choice). Is a parent extorting their children by warning them about cars that could kill them? Is it coersion? Is it threatening? No. And neither is what Jesus did.
freehenrietta 5 months ago
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ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@freehenrietta
You're missing the point. As long as one of the options involves horrible suffering, there's no real choice at all--any rational person is compelled to pick the non-horrible option. It's plain oercion.
What if a man came up to you and said, "Come with me right now, and I'll guarantee you a rich and rewarding life. But if you refuse to join me, some men will show up at your house, take you away, and torture you"? You'd have a "great option," but it would STILL be blackmail.
ClumsyRoot 5 months ago
@ClumsyRoot First, I'd have to believe that the man has power to grant what he's offering. Second, I'd have to believe that men would come and torture me if I didn't want "riches". And, you're analogy isn't "blackmail".
I think YOU'RE missing the point. God is offering eternal bliss. He also warns that there is an alternative.
You did make a good point though (where u used a more appropriate word- "compelled"): "any rational person" knows what choice to make...yet many refuse. Y?
freehenrietta 5 months ago