@IRightYouWrong But it turns out is not, in fact the report says Hamas where nowhere near the civilian areas. And what's even more amusing is that the Israeli soldiers who where conducting the operations admitted to many crimes committed by their command. Yet, you say that is not the case. Your funny
@XxANXxful Whoever you are, any ideology which is built upon the destruction of another would not survive too long. You are one of those who probably believe that Palestinians never lived in present day Israel. I just want you to know, this is Zionist propaganda fueling more hate towards the Jews. If you really care about your Jewish heritage, you should stop such people from ruining the Jewish name. Start by reading a history book
@IRightYouWrong I made it clear before, and ill say it agian, there is no proof of Hamas hiding amongst civilians, The Goldstone Report even said so. your argument is completely baseless, your only source is out of the mouths of a few, no proof, therefore disregarded. Think about it this way, Israel has precision guided munitions, yet they still tend to cause more casualties, with the pretext of Hamas hiding amongst their own people. Then investigations are made to see whether that is the case
@IRightYouWrong landing 20 km away, you have no idea how absurd of a statement that is. Open the news anytime of the day, and you would hear of the Israeli forces shooting shells and bombing 'Terrorist' sites. How is this any different then firing rockets at villages that are in fact their own villages? Hamas never shot at kindergartens, thats what Israel is made for. So basically, Israel has the right to bomb Palestine, yet the Palestinians are not allowed to give any sort of reply.
@IRightYouWrong wait a minute, i don't know of any Palestinians shooting civilians, provide proof of this taking place, don't bluntly say things, and was this person Hamas? Because the difference is, your soldiers where the ones carrying out the massacres. 8600 rockets fired at Israel, 8 years civilians where targeted? Hamas's rocketry consist of humble unguided weapons, that barely cause any damage when compared to Israel's. You can't aim at an 8 year old with an unguided rocket which is
@XxANXxful Not that unguided as you think. Hamas fired rockets and listened into radio broadcasts to see whether they hit or missed. When a position was revealed they adjusted their launching positions to make direct hits. Listen to Colonel Tim Collins' report for the BBC:
@IRightYouWrong I did send you the link, and i just posted it on your wall again. You know, im still really astonished that you didn't watch those soldiers admitting to their crimes. Your point regarding civilians being blown up is yet again flawed, since during the war on Gaza, all the rockets fires into Israel was a response to an operation carried out their. In other words, the war on Gaza did not have a pretext of buses blowing up therefore it is collective punishment my friend and massacres
I posted a link on your wall of israeli soldier's admitting what they where ordered to do. Im honestly astonished that you didn't know this. it's good to read the moderate side for a change, elders of Zion. Naom Chomsky is possibly the most professional linguist of our time, and the most viable source of information on Palestine. Allen has apparently made a map for Israel to take into consideration? that doesn't make him a hero.
@XxANXxful As a rule of thumb, since you admit about Israel's crimes committed in the 90's and 00's, then you should know that they where never punished for them. In other words, they definitely still have it in them to commit such horrendous crimes since their friends in America would just find a way to shut up the world court. But in 2008, men like Mr. Goldstone chose to side with the oppressed, and speak out against the oppressors.
@XxANXxful My friend, i don't know what chickens have to do with terrorists, but it seems like they placed a high alert on chickens? they killed over 30 000 chickens. some professional command those Golani's have to offer, huh.
@IRightYouWrong Empathy is not a possessional approach sir, Israel went berserks when the report was published, again you are taking the Israeli's opinion over the court of justice. also, keep in mind, that Mubarak was also a great ally of Israel, that's a contradictory statement to your claim. Put leaders aside, that's a stray from the original topic, the goldstone report is an obvious challenge, and they have absolutely no proof of human shielding occuring except through the mouths of the
@XxANXxful the Israeli forces, the same force that ordered their soldiers to shoot at any moving target. If you don`t believe go research Israeli soldiers admitting to what they have done. And you would obviously believe them over the human rights watch? I have already watched the debate with Allen Dershowitz, and he was clearly a one sided man. He was also very nicely over taken by Naom and finklestein. And no, you don`t know anything about war, i have experienced their evilness firsthand.
@IRightYouWrong Militants hiding behind civilians? brother go read the Goldstone report, there was a thorough investigation regarding this matter, and the result was that no such thing happened. Unless you can bring sources to back up your claim, rather than using insults and baseless arguments. no, you know what is sad, is that there exists people like you, who have never lived through a war with Israel, yet still believe the dramatic talks they give.
6/7% of Palestine was owned by Jews towards the end of the Ottoman era. About 22% of the land was owned by Arabs and the rest by the Turks, mainly uncultivated land which could not be bought. After 1917 and onwards saw mass emigration to Palestine ;Arab and Jew. In 1920 at San Remo the world powers at the time including the Arabs agreed to a jewish homeland, backed unanimously in 1922 by the 51 states of the League of Nations. Al-Husseini rejected it and that is when the trouble started.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Behind that exterior of yours Mayhem I have some belief that you are no idiot. Nor are you blindly persuaded to (entirely)believe the narrative propagated here. Pappe and others are politically motivated.I am aware of the dangers political belief can foster, and that is why I have not devoted my life entirely to it. But justice is fundamental and in any court forum there must be balance. When International Law is invoked in this regard, it has been largely political.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 That's not to say that where crimes were committed that those responsible should face charges. They should. But to naively (?) expect an organisation to turn on its members for launching missiles against civilians, or for abusing children is ludicrous. There was much discussion in Israel over Golstone and he had some support, but even organisations like B'tzelem which monitors human rights , as did others (Colonel Tim Collins) found the findings deeply problematic.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Goldstone was strongly criticised, not least for failing to detailthe extent of crimes about the use of human shields by Hamas, the failure to deal with and in effect to distort evidence. Israel , by the UN has received an overdose of censure from he UN, that one's normal reading would be that this either suggests that it is one of the worst places to live (which it isn't) , or that it amounts to libel.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I have not denied the right to criticise, but in the words of Robin Shepherd " [but] isn't it blindingly obvious that the use of ridiculous and defamatory analogies with Nazism or apartheid, the repetition of entirely distorted renditions of the historical context, and the making of casual and reflexive denunciations of criminality gives Israel a free pass to ignore all criticisms, including the reasonable ones?" That's the rub with many of today's critics.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I'll be taking a break. I've taken Thornhill's advice to heart. But time permitting I will engage with you over Judge Golstone's flawed account. Just remember though, even Goldstone did not accept that his findings would stand up in a court of law.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I haven't checked it recently, but no NEW settlements are being built at the moment. Work has resumed on existing settlements. I'm not happy, but there are supposed to be ongoing negotiations. Let's see what Abbas has to offer hmmm. So far I'm hearing that the proposed palestine should not have ANY Jews in it. Does that sound reasonable?
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 International law has put Israel in a negative light for some time now. The 2004 decision against the building of an illegal wall for example disregarded entirely why it went up in the first place. Yes, the Court at the Hague ruled and it was advisory to the United Nations, where Israel faces regular floggings from countries most of whom don't have much law in them!
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "Israel is the country which has violated the most UN Security Council Resolutions in the UN's history without suffering any kind of serious sanction or reprimand, therefore some of this bias is amply justified"
This statement says more about the composition of the United Nations and the reasons that it keeps passing unacceptable resolutions.
I agree. The day Holland has suicide bombers on its bus services and trains , missiles lobbied over on its borders, chants on daily radio "death to Holland" every day. Or "Wipe Holland off the map" or "we don't recognise that Protestant entity" - I agree, we should compare.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Here we go again! Equality? There is equality before the law in Israel as there is equality in Holland. Is the law applied equally. Sometimes not. In Israel AND in Holland. That is why a Palestinian aggrieved farmer can and does take the Israeli Government to Court and often succeeds where the law is on his or her side. Now Mayhem, where is this principle applied to Palestinians in Lebanon for example? It doesn't, is the correct answer. But I do not hear any protest.
Respond to this video...It's not a question of right and left politics, as i see it. It's a question of right and wrong. Clearly the "rope a dope " tactic adopted by the Arab World has had huge successes in creating a climate to demonise and deligitamise a State , an imperfect yet democratic and vibrant country.What do we have on the other side. "Death to America, Death to Israel" -- blah blah
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 In fact Israel iIS a secular state in the same way Holland, a Christian one holds secular positions. Yes it defines its citizens more widely than what Jewish Law prescribes. Its definitions are worded around the fact that Jews, whether they are persecuted because of decent should, too, be allowed a refuge. If that's positive discrimination, so be it. No one country is perfect.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "Jewish State" yes, but with 25% of its citizens not Jewish and with full civic rights. When calculate the how many "Islamic " Republics and the like with a handul of Jews living there and oppressed minorities - now that's racist in MY book, and not to mention the medivalistic outlook of some of their potentates.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 The truth of the matter is that until a war , which was provoked by the Arabs in 1967 the land that was "occupied" by Jordan and Egypt was seized. The land , in context of a war therefore becomes disputed land to be resolved between the parties to the dispute. As I have said, the evidence so far is that the condition of recognition has not been met. There is plenty from Hamas, an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood, to say that it does not recognise israel.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 The devilishness is in the fact that the question is a leading one. Israel already exists, international law or otherwise. That the forum of International law has become so tainted with bias largely disqualifies the international Court of any credibility, except of course to those who seek its demise.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 What Israel should be recognised?What are Israel's borders supposed to be? These are devilish questions.The Arabs , with the exceptions of Egypt and Jordan have not recognised Israel from the outset. Perhaps the question to ask, and is being asked What Palestine do the Arabs want? So far, despite all the hyperbole of discussion, it has become painfully clear that the Palestinians want a State without Jews. Go figure.
@TrevorThornwell I'm certainly pro-Israel. I am pro-palestinian - that is to I support genuine efforts by both sides to make the peace to achieve a peaceful resolution with 2 states side by side living together. You TrevorThornwell clearly do not adhere to this balance and are quite supportive of a murderous result.Hence the inability or deliberate avoidance of dealing with the present reality.
@nevskixx Excuse me? What made you conclude I "support a murderous result"?
Between calling International Law a "devilish question" and calling me genocidal for disagreeing with you, I think you are being a little bit hysterical. I don't know how effective hysteria is for an apologist of israel, but I suggest you try to cool down a bit if you want to convince people. I suggest you give your Youtube crusade for Israel a rest every now and then. Take a break every 48 hours. Get some fresh air.
@TrevorThornwell Thanks for your concern. "That's a pro -israeli for You!" with reference to my little comment about how the use of the term "international law" has come to be used in a perjorative sense.The many condemnations shrouded within this term to mean only one thing in context with this discourse - that it is entirely Arab right over Israeli wrong therefore PRO Israelis have few/no right to defend. Taking this point to its logical conlusion:result:many many dead.Hysterical?Moi?
@nevskixx Invocating satanism to describe international law... accusing me of supporting murder for disagreeing with you... hysterical is one word to describe your attitude. I can think of more apt ones, but I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of one with such thin skin.
If you are a Jew, Zionism is great. Under Zionism, you as a Jew are the only people that count. You have rights and priviledges. Not a Jew? You don't have any rights. Zionists will lie and say that all people have rights but their bureaucracy will identify you as a Goy and make sure that you are eventually denied.
@JohnnyRock2000 You display ignorance. Israel comprises of a population of 7 million. A quarter are not Jewish . It also opens its borders to refugees from Sudan and has opened it to others. Even Vietnamese. The non-Jewish citizens have full civic rights and participate as citizens of a very small country. Of course there is racism and exclusion between the various competing groups,and not just between Jew and non -Jew. But that is the same in every country.
You live in a fantasy world, what civic rights do non-Jews of Al-Arakeeb (Al-Araqeeb) village have? They have deeds that are older than the country of Israel, going back to Ottoman era (pre-British mandate) and Israeli Zionist regime doesn't "recognize" those deeds and doesn't allow them to live there. The non-Jew village has been destroyed by immigrant Jews five times in recent weeks to create place for more Jews. That's Apartheid!
@optimistsRUS You refer to Bedouin rights which has drawn 2 different thoughts on the legal position. The tale of Al-Arakeeb, whilst a sad one, IS not down to being anti-non Jew at all. There are conflicting issues over mawat lands (uncultivated) and expropriated property, and the recognition of indigenous Bedouins, which refused to register land rights and so on. Bedouins are not considered by some to be indigenous at all and in other parts of the ME as well Complicated, yes, but Apartheid?No
Israeli occupation army applies a different set of rules for the native non-Jews of West Bank than to the Jewish immigrant illegal settlers. The dogs of settlers get more water in stolen West Bank land than the natives, Israeli ZioNazis arrest natives if they tap into water that's West Bank's water. Israel steals 80% of West Bank water and denies access to water to the native non-Jews and you are here to whitewash their crimes. Shame on you.
Native Palestinians don't have the right to return to their homes, more homes are stolen or demolished every day, and immigrant Jews are settled into the stolen land. End the apartheid, give the non-Jews equal rights.
@optimistsRUS Firstly, the refugees, 600-700000, left for a number of reasons;some out of fear, a number were ousted, but most expected to return. I have listened to a number of testimonies carefully. Many did not expect to be away for more than a few weeks when the conquering armies were expected to rout the Jews and remove them in 1948. The corresponding crisis created by the Arab States resulting in a mass exodus of Jews from Arabia is of course an equal tragedy that is often overlooked.
More houses are being demolished every day and natives kicked out and Jewish-only settlements built every day but you can't admit that it's apartheid, just don't respond if you can't admit it's apartheid.
Ilan Pappe documents that the expulsion was a systematic plan, it is well-documented in Zionist terrorists' meeting that occurred at Ben Gurion's house, it was not a by-product of war tragedy, it was a systematic plan.
There were no broadcasts by Arabs, stop hasbara propaganda.
@optimistsRUS Demolitions "Every day" ? Fact: The GDP of Palestinians grew to 8% last year. The GDP is expected to be another 7%?Construction is up in Palestinian towns.
Ilan Pappe is a polemicist disguised as a historian and does not hide the fact. (watch?v=nakuOWRDVlI).
There WAS/IS no "systematic plan" to ethnically cleanse. Instead the Arab population increases by 5% per annum. Life expectancy in Gaza is higher than some parts of Europe. Stop Hasbara? Stop your nonsense.
Israeli immigrants demolish natives homes to settle Jewish foreigners and you don't call it apartheid.
The Plan Dalet that was well discussed by Ben Gurion and his terrorist fellows, it is well-documented, they openly discuss terrorizing Palestinians to drive them out, bombing a few places here and there wasn't enough and they escalated it after December 1947, even before May 48 they had kicked out 250k natives. Bomb blasts, attacks on sleeping villagers at midnight etc worked well.
@optimistsRUS Before I respond to the Plan Dalet point you make, do you have an answer as to why so many Jews in the Arab World were terrorized and victimized so that nearly all of them had to leave? And answer me this, where could most of them have gone, other than Israel?
There is documented evidence that Zionists terrorized and drove out 250k native Palestinians before May 1948. There was no violence against Jews in other Arab lands then. Re: violence that occurred later, there's no evidence it was carried out by Arabs, several Jews have written that Zionist terrorists tried to scare Jews to move them to Palestine/Israel for "demographics" (Naeim Giladi, Norton Mezvinsky, ex-Jew Uri Davis and many others including ex-CIA Crane Eveland "Ropes of sand")
@optimistsRUS What a shameful comment you make Optomist about the so gentle Arabs who did not harm a Jew. Yes, there were a few incidents, some of them rumours, of Zionist activity in Iraq for example to try to persuade Jews to leave, but how can a handful of incidents compare to the overall catastrophe that recked communities. Egypt and Libya expelled them. Iraqi Jews who had been there since Babylonian times were being murdered.
Read my message again, 250k Palestinians had been expelled by May 1948 and there is plenty of documentation for that, can you point to any source that undeniably says that 250k Jews were systematically kicked out of their homes by May 1948?
@optimistsRUS The truth about the Arab Refugee problem is complex and requires an understanding of the political and demographic conditions. In conditions of war, people out of fear leave their homes.It's normal in those conditions, to move away to a place of safety. In the 1936-39 Arab Revolt, 30,000 Arabs left. Most of the 700k moved to other parts of then Palestine;350k resettled on the West Bank. 200k in Gaza, 100k in East Jordan, 90k in Lebanon,60k in Syria...
Was the Nazi persecution of Jews complex? Was it a crime what the Nazis do or do you think it's pretty clear that one side was the oppressor and the other victim?
Why do you insist that those terrorist Jews who planned the ethnic-cleansing were not outright criminals? What was so complex about their intentions that they declared openly and what is so complex after the release of classified IDF record that documents their planning of the terrorism?
@optimistsRUS They were not "terrorist Jews". The mindset at the time was that the Arabs would try to murder the Jews. 3 years before saw the end of one of worst crimes in all humanity. What do you think people were feeling in those desperate days. Get it out of your head- there was no ethnic cleansing. If there was, ask yourself why 20% of israel's population is Arab? Unless of course you believe the ridiculous notion that every little slip here and there is part of some grand design.
Did you ever wonder why 80% of the Native Palestine population was kicked out? Stop your nonsense, they were terrorists, anyone who kills unarmed villagers or blows up a hotel or a bus is a terrorist. Palestinian terrorists are native people who are fighting for equal rights and right of return, the Jewish terrorists of 1940s were colonial settlers who wanted supremacy and wanted dominance over natives.
Who are you to say that the Nazi Holocaust was "the worst" crime ever, how about Vietnam's Holocaust? Iraqi Holocaust? Native American Holocaust? African American Holocaust? How about the various mini-Holocausts that Israeli terrorists carried out on Lebanon and Palestine? Who are you to say that dying in a gas chambers is worse than dying from napalm or white phosphorus?
Massacres of 250 people is nothing for you? How about 1400 in Gaza in 2008-09? How about 1000 killed in Lebanon 2006? How about more than a million cluster bombs dropped on civilian population, what was called Dahiya strategy by Israeli war criminals? (Dahiya was the name of the area that was flattened, i.e. terrorize the whole population so there is no resistance to occupation) How about 20,000 murdered in Lebanon in 1980s including thousands in Sabra and Shatilla by Sharon?
@optimistsRUS You mention nothing about the causes of these wars, not a word about the thousands of qassams, the rocket attacks from Hezbollah, the incessant hostilities by the Arabs, the potential Iranian threat . You commingle the deaths of Arabs killed by Jews, with those killed by Christians and other Arabs, yet it is all Israel's doing, in your opinion. War is horrific and casualties are regrettable, but Israel has not committed a "mini" holocaust or any type of holocaust.
You are a shameless apologist who justifies occupation, apartheid, home demolitions, land grab and Israeli massacres of tens of thousands of people, there is no point in talking to you.
@optimistsRUS The tragedy is that there are 2 narratives to this tale for which there appears to be no reconciliation. It is in one way a religious/cultural issue that stems from tribalism - a feature that exists in other parts of the world. Why one society develops and another either doesn't or does very slowly is a debatable issue. The fact that Islam today in this region shows little tolerance to other religions is a deep concern. In Iraq recently,400k Christians have already left.
@optimistsRUS You have formed a view of Israel that is much bandied about. It is simply bigotry at best to refer to Israelis as Apartheid or Nazis causing mini-holocausts when the reality is so different. You exaggerate - tens of thousands are not massacred, children are not murdered every day. In fact the opposite is closer to the truth.So I ask where does this hatred stem from ?
You have formed a view of Israel that only Israeli terrorists hold. It is simply bigotry to refuse to acknowledge that Jewish-only roads, Jewish-only settlements and demolitions of native Palestinians is apartheid. This is not a blind hatred of all people of a religion, I have no hatred for peaceful Jews but I have hatred for land-grabbing racists who believe they are the "chosen ones" and they can kick the natives out of a certain land.
@nevskixx Children are never targeted or massacred? Are you not aware of the Israeli bombing of Palistinian schools during the 2009 Gaza MASSACRE?? they had those schools on a gps system, they purposely bombed those schools!, killing inncocent palistinian children. It was condemed world wide.
Also perhaps you should look at Alan Harts (BBC Middle East correspondent for many years) 5 part documentry on Israel.
Hello lalalady4216 . I make a clear distinction between using terms like "massacre and the "targeting" of innocent and with those who tragically were caught up in battle and who fell victim . Also much has been made of the attacks on Mosques, but subsequent research later by the likes of Colonel Tim Collins have disclosed that much of the destruction came from secondary explosions which is conclusive proof of storage. Children have also been abused by Hamas in this war, don't you think?
@nevskixx there really is no need for such a distinction, those schools were indeed targeted. Make no mistake on that, they had those schools on a gps tracking system. They targeted those schools with the full knowledge of what they were doing. Actually an interesting fact regarding hamas and their rockets, only 18 Israelis died from hamas rockets between 2000-2008, also worth noting that more israelis die frm peanut attacks every year. So yes. hamas have of course killed israelis>
@lalalady4216 I did not express myself well regarding the terms targeting innocent people and the killing of innocent people as a result of targeting combatants. Colonel Richard Kemp made the point more eloquently when he gave evidence at the UNHRC about a year ago. What however troubles me, reading your post is the obvious point:Given an opportunity, Hamas would not be killing 18 Israelis, but would try to kill as many people as it could. Hamas' Charter declares all Jews are targets.
@nevskixx oh i completely agree with you, hamas are murderers and i strongly condem their actions as i obviously disagree with murder, even if it is for a cause. However one should look at the fact that israel has also had the oppertunity(ample, infact)to murder not only hamas but also innocents and it has always taken that oppertunity, ever since its establishment.(i would also like to point out that dave is correct in his figure of israelis killed, but the number of 18 by rockets stands) >
@lalalady4216 I read your post with interest. That you are Irish seems to explain at least the concern for innocent ordinary folk that do get caught up in conflict and brings home the fears of sectarian violence . The Middle East unfortunately is more worrying . Whether Arab or Jew, innocent people have died or have been injured. It's difficult to dictate to a country under fire from rockets what it must do to protect its citizens.
@nevskixx however, as i am irish i can somewhat sympathise(that may be the wrong word lol) with the palistinians who have elected hamas. Israel has illegally obtained gaza, east jerusalum and also 40%of the west bank(sitting on palistinian water) , this has been declared by the international ct of justice and therefore i feel that palistinians have a right to fight for that stolen/illegally occupied land. Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country in the world and yet it>
@lalalady4216 I do think there have been many attempts to resolve this conflict. As with Ireland it will take a POLITICAL solution to resolve it. The 2 sides must agree to end it. Much has been said over the breach of resolutions and international law and the plethora of resolutions passed against Israel This says a lot about the World's failure to stop human rights abuses in countries like Libya, Iran Algeria, China and North Korea with several thousands dead. And Congo? 5-7million dead!!
@nevskixx continues to be allowed through the aid of US vetos to continue its illegal actions, as im sure you are aware. Look, israel is fine in principle but it has gone beyond what is was entitled too. It has illegally obtained land by war and therefore is creating the backlash from the palistinians and therefore hamas. I feel for the palistinians because they have been unfairly treated by the israeli zionists.View alan harts history of isreal.Very insightful.i respect ur opinion tho.good luck
@lalalady4216 Israel in fact has very strong legal claims, going back to the 19century when land was purchased. Did you know that in 1929 after a pogrom ordered by the Mufti of Jerusalem, 65 Jews that lived in Hebron (on today's West Bank) were murdered in cold blood. The community fled. Was that legal? And why shouldn't Jews be allowed to live in a new Arab State of Palestine. Yet the PA declares no Jew will be allowed to live there.
@nevskixx Im not sympathetic to the palistinians because of sectarianism per se, I am not from northern ireland and was never subjected to that, however, our history has shown that where land is illegally obtained by force(as was the case before our independence) that it is a knee jerk reaction to protect what has been wrongfully taken from you. The only strong claim israel has to anything is the land which was issued to them. I do not dispute that they deserve that initial 55%.>
@lalalady4216 The question about land rights is not a simple one. In recent times, that is from 1967 onwards, the pressure on Israel to "revert" back to pre-1967 borders seems to be a common thought. However, the "1967 border" in fact is not a border at all, but a 1949 armistice line (the Green Line ),after the 1948 War along the points where hostilities ceased, not the defined border of a new country. In 1947 the land was to be partitioned, but the Arabs went to war to destroy Israel instead.
@nevskixx These terms were first set out under agreed terms between the Zionists, the Hashemites and the existing world powers and were unanimously voted bon by the League of Nations. The British reneged on their pledge by ceding East Palestine to the Hashemites. As part of a deliberate policy of imperialist doctrine they made every effort to prevent a realisation of her pledge, restricting immigaration to Jews and encouraging unrest. These earlier events are what led to today's conflicts.
@nevskixx But even before 1917, Jews were buying lands all over Palestine. By 1917, the Jews owned 7% and the Arabs owned 22% The rest was uncultivated land belonging to the Turks , which was uncultivated land which the Jews were unable to buy. The declaration of 1917 signaled a turning point for Jews suffering persecution . So when we talk today about illegal settlement, are these truly illegal. Yes, there is some land grabbing, but the overall dynamic is not one of illegality.
@lalalady4216 The ownership of land issue even pre-dates 1947. In 1917 the Balfour Declaration was a clear pledge to the Jews that they would be given a homeland in Palestine , a district of Southern Syria under the Ottomans and that the rights of non-Jews were not to be prejudiced. That is present day Jordan, the West Bank and Israel. The Ottoman Empire was carved out and Arabs were allocated territory under mandates by France and Britain for both Arabs and Jews.
@nevskixx (although im sure hamas would still have a problem with that, but i do not) but where Israel has gone too far has been the settlements and take over of gaza, east jerusalum and that 40%of the westbank, it is non disputible, they are illegally occuping the remaining percentage of the arab land partitioned to them. It is illegal, they have also targeted their water suppies,arab, not the Israeli.There is no legal claim for any of that whatsoever. Thats my problem. But we wont agree:-)
@lalalady4216 One last point. Israel comprises of 10,000 square miles. The Arab lands comprise of over 7 million square miles and they are still not satisfied and would like the Jews to leave.They have not expressed any desire for Jews to live among them, whilst Israel's population comprise of 20% Arab with full civic rights. What happened to the 700,000 Jews that once lived among the Arabs up until 1950?.Apart from Morocco, there are hardly any. It is a very sad conflict.
@nevskixx I am aware of all you ahve said, although while i am aware of all of it i think perhaps we have a slightly (only slightly different) view of the realities of past events. However it does not negate from the fact that it is illegal to obtain land by use of force/war. End of discussion as far as im concerned. Also, while you 100%in saying that israel has a 20% arab population within it, it should be noted that not one department of Israels govt has one arab in any position of power >
@lalalady4216 "However it does not negate from the fact that it is illegal to obtain land by use of force/war". But that's very much the point. The land belonged to the Jews BEFORE any war happened. The land was to be given to the Jews after the 51 members League of Nations unanimously agreed to the creation of a new state. It was held on trust under the British, only that the British breached the terms and fueled the enmity between Arab and Jew.
@nevskixx In 1947, the UN Partition Plan was rejected by the Arabs, which would have allowed for a 2 state solution and elected for war. 5 Armies invaded including Jordan. When hostilities ceased, Jordan had seized the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Now that WAS illegal. It was held until the 1967 war. The status of those territories remain disputed and as there is some tacit recognition of Palestinian Arabs, it's for the parties to agree.
@lalalady4216 The problem is that the Court of International Justice is of no consequence regarding legal sovereignty. No one can undo a country, so to speak, though a country may agree to relinquish its rights to another, say ina compromise. That's part of the mistake in the present mode of thinking. That;s why I believe that it will be a political and not legal determination that will hopefully one day end the conflict.
@nevskixx Not even a secratary job. That is absolute fact. So we see that the running of israel and of the illegally obatined land (gaza, east jerusalum and part of the westbank) is soely down to zionist jews. I have a majour issue with israeli policy on many levels, but i do not dispute that jews deserve that home land, i just think they dont deserve all they believe they are entitled to. They are not entitled to steal what has not been allocated to them, as seen in icj's rulings. Be safe!:-)
@nevskixx Not even a secratary job. That is absolute fact. So we see that the running of israel and of the illegally obatined land (gaza, east jerusalum and part of the westbank) is soely down to zionist jews. I have a majour issue with israeli policy on many levels, but i do not dispute that jews deserve that home land, i just think they dont deserve all they believe they are entitled to. They are not entitled to steal what has not been allocated to them, as seen in icj's rulings. Be safe!:-)
@lalalady4216 I like you lalalady. I find this dialogue sympathetic. I hear what you say and believe you speak from a well intentioned position. Israeli society is diverse, and far from perfect. Yet,even when there is an outrage, Jews do not take it out on Arabs. Arabs on the whole fair better many times over than in Arab countries. It's not a myth. A Jew can be operated on by an Arab at a hospital or be tried by an Arab Judge, have free education, be a journalist, be in business with Jews.
@nevskixx youre correct it will be a political reconciliation in the end, when ever that day comes. However, i still believe that israel has no right to occupy gaza, east jerusulum or any of the west bank. wheile i understand that many jews have ethnic ties to that area, i believe at this stage they only deserve what they were given, not what they assume they deserve. I dont hate jews, i sympathize with zionism in principle, just not the realities(most). anyways i may go but take of yourself!
@lalalady4216 "i still believe that israel has no right to occupy gaza,.." Israel left Gaza in 2005. The only Jew there is Gilad Shalit who was kidnapped 4 years ago.Israel controls border access on the israeli side and sea.but supplies essentials. Until this week that is.Hamas has called for a boycott of Israeli products. Can you believe it!? Regarding other territory: many in Israel have been willing to compromise territorially for peace since 1947. By all means visit. It's never dull. Be well
@nevskixx but the amount of killings israel have done is not in any porportunate to that of isralis killed.for example when 16 isralis were killed in 2009 by hamas, israel murdered over 600 palistinians, over 370 of which were civilians If you watch alan harts dicumentry on israel you will see that israel from the beginning has been less than up front. murder of any kind is horrific, but in my opinion israel always goes a step to far to further its goals and vendettas.but i respect ur opinion:-)
@optimistsRUS The problem is, that given the chance, the Arabs would be quite willing to do the dirty deed and one day they are hoping to do it. That's the worry.
Don't get me wrong, Israel is not perfect. Far from it. No country is . It is by far not the worst. So why does Israel get more disapprobrium than any other country? And you still have provided me with no proper explanation as to why so many Jews from Arab countries ended up stateless and finally were absorbed by Israel?
...It was clear from 1936 onwards that the Arabs had opted to not want to live with the Jews and to eliminate them. Under such conditions and with the restriction on Jewish immigration and what was happening in Europe, there was a feeling, but NO policy to transfer Arabs among some of the Zionist. Pappe plays this point in reverse. and he is misleading...
It's important also to realise how Palestine's population lived literally side by side. Arab and Jewish villages and in the cities Arab and Jewish neighbourhoods. When civil war broke out in November 1947- for the Palestinian Arabs it was a battle to the last By march 1948, the civil war was very violent. many middle-class Arabs had left their homes and had moved to Nablus and Damascus, comprising of much of the leadership. The Palestinians effectively were leaderless.
Without leadership, the Arabs panicked. The Hagannah from April-July 1948 had gone on to the offensive and in panic about 300k took the example of their leaders and began to flee. NO expulsion orders. 10 days in July saw the expulsion of about 50k Arabs. Attacks and counterattacks led to Jews taking some towns, where Arab attacks on supply routes had caused major disruption.Many fled, but many also remained, for example in nazareth., a major Arab town in israel today.
In october 1948 in the South 200k upped and left for Gaza. Many believed they would be able to return after the war, but there was a concern that these Arabs would not be loyal to the new state and were left as refugees. The crime, if ever there was one was for the Arab countries for all these years to leave these people "Stateless" and for political reasons having elected to go to war and lose has caused great shame. So in short. NO POLICY to expel Arabs.
@optimistsRUS What a shameful comment you make Optomist about the so gentle Arabs who did not harm a Jew. Yes, there were a few incidents, some of them rumours, of Zionist activity in Iraq for example to try to persuade Jews to leave, but how can a handful of incidents compare to the overall catastrophe that recked communities. Egypt and Libya expelled them. Iraqi Jews who had been there since Babylonian times were being murdered.
@optimistsRUS Your comment belies a deep antipathy towards Jews, and a completely polemical attitude with total misunderstanding of historical truth. Shameful really. Sorry Optomist, I have to say it. Just check Wikipedia for just some bare bone facts before writing nonsense. It's not to be taken as total truth, but you can see from this what errant nonsense you have written."No violence against Jews in other Arab Lands"--Really?
@optimistsRUS Many Arabs remained in Israel and make up 20% of the non_Jewish population. In 1949 at the Lausanne confernce Israel did consider the return of 100000 displaced Arabs in return for recognition and secure borders. . Why should Israel allow these largely hostile people to return to Israel, numbered at around 4 million. To destroy it? And what about those Arab countries who chose war over partition/ Why have kept this wretched people as refugees, rather than absorb them?
Palestine had a 6% Jewish population in 1900, 11% in 1922 and 34% in 1947 (with only 6% land owned by Jews in 1947) and in 1948 they occupied 80% of the land and declared it Israel and between November 47 and May 48 they expelled a total of 750-800k of the native population (about 80% of the native population). Why should the immigrants have the right to live in stolen land and the natives not have the right?
34% Jews were offered 54% land and you think Arabs were wrong to reject it?
I were talking about you hiding behind fake accounts, and stalking me all over he tube? were you abused much as a kid? at what age did you start seeking
Israel or the Jewish nation in the areas is not defined by time. Its defined by presence. Arabs have to recognize Jews as equals and neighbors and work from there
@kreplach2 recognize the Jews as equals? recognize roads they can't use but Jews can? recognize checkpoints they spend hours in, but Jews don't? recognize water supplies and fertile land that is only accessible to Jews? you are right tho that Jews are not equal to Arabs, like their settlements they have a way higher ground
Bwnny Morris retracted his numerous "Zionist massacres". Look it up.
There is no implied. If he desires an expulsion NOW that means that there was no expulsion in 1948. Try thinking it helps. Reasoning is not your forte Professor LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them.
XXXXXXXXX All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Benny Morris retracted his charges and wants Palestinians expelled. Your Prophecy of Doom cliche is no subsitute for actual thinking. I find your summary of behaviours applies to the Jew Hater vairety of Ant Zionists.
Im kreplach2 and krepiach2 is my fake impersonator. He is a clone. Hes a Jew hater on an unholy mission.He trolls youtube looking for my comments in order to confuse. He pretends to be me or he spams the video. You cant get more despicable. Hes the most satanic poster Ive found here.
@krepIach2 Todays copy and paste spam starts with Palestinians are the natives of Canaan .......
Who are you addressing, fake krepiach??
im the only one here. Youre trashing, cloning and spamming days will soon be over. You dont even have a channel. Who would listen to you??? Youre an imposter!!
Everybody! Click on the names to see whos
the most INSANE PARANOID DELUSIONAL satanic poster
@krepIach2 KREPLACH2 is KREPLACH3 KREPLACH3 is KREPLACH2 THE FAKE ONE IS KREPiACH2 THE FAKE ONE IS KREPiACH3 Click on the names to see who's fake!!! See its K R E P i A C H NOT K R E P L A C H False Flag Krepiach goes swimming You Tube from one end to the other trying to set opinion up against me. But Im following him nipping it in the bud. Click to see his channel! He has none!!!
As I expected more messages intended to bury mine. I reply when youre not around, Unless you want to to do surveillance for a few hours, its your life, A very black one.
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Argueing with these people is exactly like arguing with creationists. They refuse to look at the insurmountable evidence staring them in the face. Every reputable israeli historian even pro zionists like Benny Morris admit ethnic cleansing was inbuilt into zionism. But let me guess a jew that go against israel is a self hating jew. Its childish rhetoric spouted to quell any dissent
@maxfedor1 I believe you see insurmountable evidence of yours id transparent or illusory. You only consider anti- Zionist leftist israeli historians as reputable. No others. Anyway Benny Morris has retracted alot and is now right wing supporting expulsion of Arabs. Still love him?
@kreplach2 What kind of historian retracts his research. I think morris is a dispicable apologist. He has not retracted his statement that there was ethnic cleansing, all he has changed is now he says it wasnt planned. But he still admits it happened. And using perjorvative terms like anti zionist leftists does not affect the factual accounts of history. The facts are the facts, whether said by the right or the left.
@kreplach2 i quote him cause you cant accuse him of being leftist,anti semite, self hating jew. He is a right wing pro zionist that agrees that israeli government engaged in ethnic cleansing. Please show how morally bankcrupt you are by defending any kind of ethnic cleansing. let me guess you will reply with the typical rhetoric that is was done for security issues.
@maxfedor1 There is no ethnic cleansing. No great loss of life No evacuations. Palestinians to get maximum PR exaggerate all these claims. And have a hoax industry to back this up. Was that classified as rhetoric?
@kreplach2 Under international law an oppressive occupying force does not have the right to security if they continue oppressing a people by breaking international law
@maxfedor1 Define oppression! Thats rhetoric in reference to the Palestinians Ha! Youre the typical Israel hater who loves to wrap accusation in vague blankets of mumbo jumbo rhetoric. When I strip this away You guys go =POOF= !
@kreplach2 so the UN, international courts, BT Selem, amnesty international,human rights watch, we are all wrong and your right. pretty obnoxious of you. but one would have to be that obnoxious and ignorant to dedend IDF and the government. And your wrong, i dont hate Israel; i despise any political ideology that prevent everyone being treated equally. like i said you cant tell me how i took Dayan or Jabotinsky out of context. Arguing with you is like arguing with a creationist.you fail
@maxfedor1 There we go with the Israel hater crap that loves to wrap accusation in vague blankets of mumbo jumbo rhetoric! You are predictable! Almost like your coached. The UN, BT Shelem, HRW Amnesty Inter, and the International courts dont agree with EACH OTHER. How can you say theyre right? Imbecile!
@maxfedor1 In Israel official everyone gets treated equally. Its not as successful as in the USA but its working. Better than Arab states fOR SURE! Dont draw me into your quotes. Youre bound to prove YOUR POINTS IM waiting!!!
@kreplach2 An occupied people have a right to defend themselves. Just like the resistance movement in europe against the nazi's had a right to defend themselves from a foreign invader. No rational human being can argue that the zionist movement didnt occupy land that wasnt theirs. And the british had no right to give away land that wasnt theirs. ANd the majority of american jewry is liberal and that is why aipac fights so hard in the states cause more and more liberal jews
@maxfedor1 Occupied people? Like Gaza? Gaza is Jew free!
The Palestinian resistance is=not based on liberation butr xenophobia. The first leader the Grand Mufti asserted he could not live next to Jews so he had to get rid of them. The Zionists took Arab land after the armastice lines were drawn up anf the 5 Arab Armies were expelled from Palestine.The British never gave away land. Thats sheer delusion. "fights so hard"???
@kreplach2 (who believe in justice and human rights) can no longer stand behind Issrael's colonial rule. There is many polls done in the US that shows less and less support for Israel by american Jewry. Only the irational right wing conservative jew who cares not to follow international law back the Zionist movement
@kreplach2 No iam just asking you to show i took those quotes out of context. Dont muddy the waters, Prove to me and anyone reading these comments that i took Jabotinsky or Dayan out of context. Dont qoute some website, prove me wrong by sorcing their books
en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
^^ You mean that ethnic cleansing? Looks more like Arabs attempting to finish off where the Nazi's left off.
aidanjt 5 months ago
@IRightYouWrong But it turns out is not, in fact the report says Hamas where nowhere near the civilian areas. And what's even more amusing is that the Israeli soldiers who where conducting the operations admitted to many crimes committed by their command. Yet, you say that is not the case. Your funny
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@XxANXxful Whoever you are, any ideology which is built upon the destruction of another would not survive too long. You are one of those who probably believe that Palestinians never lived in present day Israel. I just want you to know, this is Zionist propaganda fueling more hate towards the Jews. If you really care about your Jewish heritage, you should stop such people from ruining the Jewish name. Start by reading a history book
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@IRightYouWrong I made it clear before, and ill say it agian, there is no proof of Hamas hiding amongst civilians, The Goldstone Report even said so. your argument is completely baseless, your only source is out of the mouths of a few, no proof, therefore disregarded. Think about it this way, Israel has precision guided munitions, yet they still tend to cause more casualties, with the pretext of Hamas hiding amongst their own people. Then investigations are made to see whether that is the case
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@IRightYouWrong landing 20 km away, you have no idea how absurd of a statement that is. Open the news anytime of the day, and you would hear of the Israeli forces shooting shells and bombing 'Terrorist' sites. How is this any different then firing rockets at villages that are in fact their own villages? Hamas never shot at kindergartens, thats what Israel is made for. So basically, Israel has the right to bomb Palestine, yet the Palestinians are not allowed to give any sort of reply.
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@IRightYouWrong wait a minute, i don't know of any Palestinians shooting civilians, provide proof of this taking place, don't bluntly say things, and was this person Hamas? Because the difference is, your soldiers where the ones carrying out the massacres. 8600 rockets fired at Israel, 8 years civilians where targeted? Hamas's rocketry consist of humble unguided weapons, that barely cause any damage when compared to Israel's. You can't aim at an 8 year old with an unguided rocket which is
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@XxANXxful Not that unguided as you think. Hamas fired rockets and listened into radio broadcasts to see whether they hit or missed. When a position was revealed they adjusted their launching positions to make direct hits. Listen to Colonel Tim Collins' report for the BBC:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8470100.stm
nevskixx 9 months ago
@IRightYouWrong I did send you the link, and i just posted it on your wall again. You know, im still really astonished that you didn't watch those soldiers admitting to their crimes. Your point regarding civilians being blown up is yet again flawed, since during the war on Gaza, all the rockets fires into Israel was a response to an operation carried out their. In other words, the war on Gaza did not have a pretext of buses blowing up therefore it is collective punishment my friend and massacres
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@IRightYouWrong
I posted a link on your wall of israeli soldier's admitting what they where ordered to do. Im honestly astonished that you didn't know this. it's good to read the moderate side for a change, elders of Zion. Naom Chomsky is possibly the most professional linguist of our time, and the most viable source of information on Palestine. Allen has apparently made a map for Israel to take into consideration? that doesn't make him a hero.
XxANXxful 11 months ago
@XxANXxful As a rule of thumb, since you admit about Israel's crimes committed in the 90's and 00's, then you should know that they where never punished for them. In other words, they definitely still have it in them to commit such horrendous crimes since their friends in America would just find a way to shut up the world court. But in 2008, men like Mr. Goldstone chose to side with the oppressed, and speak out against the oppressors.
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@XxANXxful My friend, i don't know what chickens have to do with terrorists, but it seems like they placed a high alert on chickens? they killed over 30 000 chickens. some professional command those Golani's have to offer, huh.
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@XxANXxful /watch?v=GhqTqusWPaE
thats the link
XxANXxful 10 months ago
@IRightYouWrong Empathy is not a possessional approach sir, Israel went berserks when the report was published, again you are taking the Israeli's opinion over the court of justice. also, keep in mind, that Mubarak was also a great ally of Israel, that's a contradictory statement to your claim. Put leaders aside, that's a stray from the original topic, the goldstone report is an obvious challenge, and they have absolutely no proof of human shielding occuring except through the mouths of the
XxANXxful 11 months ago
@XxANXxful the Israeli forces, the same force that ordered their soldiers to shoot at any moving target. If you don`t believe go research Israeli soldiers admitting to what they have done. And you would obviously believe them over the human rights watch? I have already watched the debate with Allen Dershowitz, and he was clearly a one sided man. He was also very nicely over taken by Naom and finklestein. And no, you don`t know anything about war, i have experienced their evilness firsthand.
XxANXxful 11 months ago
@IRightYouWrong Militants hiding behind civilians? brother go read the Goldstone report, there was a thorough investigation regarding this matter, and the result was that no such thing happened. Unless you can bring sources to back up your claim, rather than using insults and baseless arguments. no, you know what is sad, is that there exists people like you, who have never lived through a war with Israel, yet still believe the dramatic talks they give.
XxANXxful 11 months ago
The number of Israelis that have been murdered by Palestinians since 2000 is 1,196 (including the 18 Israelis that have been killed by rockets).
Dave19141918 11 months ago
6/7% of Palestine was owned by Jews towards the end of the Ottoman era. About 22% of the land was owned by Arabs and the rest by the Turks, mainly uncultivated land which could not be bought. After 1917 and onwards saw mass emigration to Palestine ;Arab and Jew. In 1920 at San Remo the world powers at the time including the Arabs agreed to a jewish homeland, backed unanimously in 1922 by the 51 states of the League of Nations. Al-Husseini rejected it and that is when the trouble started.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 If what I say offends, I do not personally want to. If you do not wish to engage I will not trouble you.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Now its you who maintains I'm clogging up you tube. I see quite number of your comments here too! Hello
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Behind that exterior of yours Mayhem I have some belief that you are no idiot. Nor are you blindly persuaded to (entirely)believe the narrative propagated here. Pappe and others are politically motivated.I am aware of the dangers political belief can foster, and that is why I have not devoted my life entirely to it. But justice is fundamental and in any court forum there must be balance. When International Law is invoked in this regard, it has been largely political.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 That's not to say that where crimes were committed that those responsible should face charges. They should. But to naively (?) expect an organisation to turn on its members for launching missiles against civilians, or for abusing children is ludicrous. There was much discussion in Israel over Golstone and he had some support, but even organisations like B'tzelem which monitors human rights , as did others (Colonel Tim Collins) found the findings deeply problematic.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Goldstone was strongly criticised, not least for failing to detailthe extent of crimes about the use of human shields by Hamas, the failure to deal with and in effect to distort evidence. Israel , by the UN has received an overdose of censure from he UN, that one's normal reading would be that this either suggests that it is one of the worst places to live (which it isn't) , or that it amounts to libel.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I have not denied the right to criticise, but in the words of Robin Shepherd " [but] isn't it blindingly obvious that the use of ridiculous and defamatory analogies with Nazism or apartheid, the repetition of entirely distorted renditions of the historical context, and the making of casual and reflexive denunciations of criminality gives Israel a free pass to ignore all criticisms, including the reasonable ones?" That's the rub with many of today's critics.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I'll be taking a break. I've taken Thornhill's advice to heart. But time permitting I will engage with you over Judge Golstone's flawed account. Just remember though, even Goldstone did not accept that his findings would stand up in a court of law.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I haven't checked it recently, but no NEW settlements are being built at the moment. Work has resumed on existing settlements. I'm not happy, but there are supposed to be ongoing negotiations. Let's see what Abbas has to offer hmmm. So far I'm hearing that the proposed palestine should not have ANY Jews in it. Does that sound reasonable?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 As far as bagels are concerned, I don't eat bread
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 International law has put Israel in a negative light for some time now. The 2004 decision against the building of an illegal wall for example disregarded entirely why it went up in the first place. Yes, the Court at the Hague ruled and it was advisory to the United Nations, where Israel faces regular floggings from countries most of whom don't have much law in them!
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "How many messages do you post daily to defend Israel's reputation? "
Not nearly enough it seems!!
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "Israel is the country which has violated the most UN Security Council Resolutions in the UN's history without suffering any kind of serious sanction or reprimand, therefore some of this bias is amply justified"
This statement says more about the composition of the United Nations and the reasons that it keeps passing unacceptable resolutions.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "the day you may compare Holland to "The Jewish State"
I agree. The day Holland has suicide bombers on its bus services and trains , missiles lobbied over on its borders, chants on daily radio "death to Holland" every day. Or "Wipe Holland off the map" or "we don't recognise that Protestant entity" - I agree, we should compare.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Here we go again! Equality? There is equality before the law in Israel as there is equality in Holland. Is the law applied equally. Sometimes not. In Israel AND in Holland. That is why a Palestinian aggrieved farmer can and does take the Israeli Government to Court and often succeeds where the law is on his or her side. Now Mayhem, where is this principle applied to Palestinians in Lebanon for example? It doesn't, is the correct answer. But I do not hear any protest.
nevskixx 1 year ago
Respond to this video...It's not a question of right and left politics, as i see it. It's a question of right and wrong. Clearly the "rope a dope " tactic adopted by the Arab World has had huge successes in creating a climate to demonise and deligitamise a State , an imperfect yet democratic and vibrant country.What do we have on the other side. "Death to America, Death to Israel" -- blah blah
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 In fact Israel iIS a secular state in the same way Holland, a Christian one holds secular positions. Yes it defines its citizens more widely than what Jewish Law prescribes. Its definitions are worded around the fact that Jews, whether they are persecuted because of decent should, too, be allowed a refuge. If that's positive discrimination, so be it. No one country is perfect.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 "Jewish State" yes, but with 25% of its citizens not Jewish and with full civic rights. When calculate the how many "Islamic " Republics and the like with a handul of Jews living there and oppressed minorities - now that's racist in MY book, and not to mention the medivalistic outlook of some of their potentates.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 The truth of the matter is that until a war , which was provoked by the Arabs in 1967 the land that was "occupied" by Jordan and Egypt was seized. The land , in context of a war therefore becomes disputed land to be resolved between the parties to the dispute. As I have said, the evidence so far is that the condition of recognition has not been met. There is plenty from Hamas, an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood, to say that it does not recognise israel.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 The devilishness is in the fact that the question is a leading one. Israel already exists, international law or otherwise. That the forum of International law has become so tainted with bias largely disqualifies the international Court of any credibility, except of course to those who seek its demise.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 What Israel should be recognised?What are Israel's borders supposed to be? These are devilish questions.The Arabs , with the exceptions of Egypt and Jordan have not recognised Israel from the outset. Perhaps the question to ask, and is being asked What Palestine do the Arabs want? So far, despite all the hyperbole of discussion, it has become painfully clear that the Palestinians want a State without Jews. Go figure.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx What others call a question of International law, you call "devilish questions". That's a pro-Israeli for you.
TrevorThornwell 1 year ago
@TrevorThornwell I'm certainly pro-Israel. I am pro-palestinian - that is to I support genuine efforts by both sides to make the peace to achieve a peaceful resolution with 2 states side by side living together. You TrevorThornwell clearly do not adhere to this balance and are quite supportive of a murderous result.Hence the inability or deliberate avoidance of dealing with the present reality.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx Excuse me? What made you conclude I "support a murderous result"?
Between calling International Law a "devilish question" and calling me genocidal for disagreeing with you, I think you are being a little bit hysterical. I don't know how effective hysteria is for an apologist of israel, but I suggest you try to cool down a bit if you want to convince people. I suggest you give your Youtube crusade for Israel a rest every now and then. Take a break every 48 hours. Get some fresh air.
TrevorThornwell 1 year ago
@TrevorThornwell Thanks for your concern. "That's a pro -israeli for You!" with reference to my little comment about how the use of the term "international law" has come to be used in a perjorative sense.The many condemnations shrouded within this term to mean only one thing in context with this discourse - that it is entirely Arab right over Israeli wrong therefore PRO Israelis have few/no right to defend. Taking this point to its logical conlusion:result:many many dead.Hysterical?Moi?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx Invocating satanism to describe international law... accusing me of supporting murder for disagreeing with you... hysterical is one word to describe your attitude. I can think of more apt ones, but I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of one with such thin skin.
TrevorThornwell 1 year ago
@TrevorThornwell I'm grateful to you..
nevskixx 1 year ago
If you are a Jew, Zionism is great. Under Zionism, you as a Jew are the only people that count. You have rights and priviledges. Not a Jew? You don't have any rights. Zionists will lie and say that all people have rights but their bureaucracy will identify you as a Goy and make sure that you are eventually denied.
JohnnyRock2000 1 year ago
@JohnnyRock2000 You display ignorance. Israel comprises of a population of 7 million. A quarter are not Jewish . It also opens its borders to refugees from Sudan and has opened it to others. Even Vietnamese. The non-Jewish citizens have full civic rights and participate as citizens of a very small country. Of course there is racism and exclusion between the various competing groups,and not just between Jew and non -Jew. But that is the same in every country.
nevskixx 1 year ago 2
"The non-Jewish citizens have full civic rights"
@nevskixx
You live in a fantasy world, what civic rights do non-Jews of Al-Arakeeb (Al-Araqeeb) village have? They have deeds that are older than the country of Israel, going back to Ottoman era (pre-British mandate) and Israeli Zionist regime doesn't "recognize" those deeds and doesn't allow them to live there. The non-Jew village has been destroyed by immigrant Jews five times in recent weeks to create place for more Jews. That's Apartheid!
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS You refer to Bedouin rights which has drawn 2 different thoughts on the legal position. The tale of Al-Arakeeb, whilst a sad one, IS not down to being anti-non Jew at all. There are conflicting issues over mawat lands (uncultivated) and expropriated property, and the recognition of indigenous Bedouins, which refused to register land rights and so on. Bedouins are not considered by some to be indigenous at all and in other parts of the ME as well Complicated, yes, but Apartheid?No
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
You can lie as much as you want but these Bedouins have registries that pre-date Zionist colonial occupation. Period.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Israeli occupation army applies a different set of rules for the native non-Jews of West Bank than to the Jewish immigrant illegal settlers. The dogs of settlers get more water in stolen West Bank land than the natives, Israeli ZioNazis arrest natives if they tap into water that's West Bank's water. Israel steals 80% of West Bank water and denies access to water to the native non-Jews and you are here to whitewash their crimes. Shame on you.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Native Palestinians don't have the right to return to their homes, more homes are stolen or demolished every day, and immigrant Jews are settled into the stolen land. End the apartheid, give the non-Jews equal rights.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Firstly, the refugees, 600-700000, left for a number of reasons;some out of fear, a number were ousted, but most expected to return. I have listened to a number of testimonies carefully. Many did not expect to be away for more than a few weeks when the conquering armies were expected to rout the Jews and remove them in 1948. The corresponding crisis created by the Arab States resulting in a mass exodus of Jews from Arabia is of course an equal tragedy that is often overlooked.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
More houses are being demolished every day and natives kicked out and Jewish-only settlements built every day but you can't admit that it's apartheid, just don't respond if you can't admit it's apartheid.
Ilan Pappe documents that the expulsion was a systematic plan, it is well-documented in Zionist terrorists' meeting that occurred at Ben Gurion's house, it was not a by-product of war tragedy, it was a systematic plan.
There were no broadcasts by Arabs, stop hasbara propaganda.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Demolitions "Every day" ? Fact: The GDP of Palestinians grew to 8% last year. The GDP is expected to be another 7%?Construction is up in Palestinian towns.
Ilan Pappe is a polemicist disguised as a historian and does not hide the fact. (watch?v=nakuOWRDVlI).
There WAS/IS no "systematic plan" to ethnically cleanse. Instead the Arab population increases by 5% per annum. Life expectancy in Gaza is higher than some parts of Europe. Stop Hasbara? Stop your nonsense.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Israeli immigrants demolish natives homes to settle Jewish foreigners and you don't call it apartheid.
The Plan Dalet that was well discussed by Ben Gurion and his terrorist fellows, it is well-documented, they openly discuss terrorizing Palestinians to drive them out, bombing a few places here and there wasn't enough and they escalated it after December 1947, even before May 48 they had kicked out 250k natives. Bomb blasts, attacks on sleeping villagers at midnight etc worked well.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Before I respond to the Plan Dalet point you make, do you have an answer as to why so many Jews in the Arab World were terrorized and victimized so that nearly all of them had to leave? And answer me this, where could most of them have gone, other than Israel?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
There is documented evidence that Zionists terrorized and drove out 250k native Palestinians before May 1948. There was no violence against Jews in other Arab lands then. Re: violence that occurred later, there's no evidence it was carried out by Arabs, several Jews have written that Zionist terrorists tried to scare Jews to move them to Palestine/Israel for "demographics" (Naeim Giladi, Norton Mezvinsky, ex-Jew Uri Davis and many others including ex-CIA Crane Eveland "Ropes of sand")
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS What a shameful comment you make Optomist about the so gentle Arabs who did not harm a Jew. Yes, there were a few incidents, some of them rumours, of Zionist activity in Iraq for example to try to persuade Jews to leave, but how can a handful of incidents compare to the overall catastrophe that recked communities. Egypt and Libya expelled them. Iraqi Jews who had been there since Babylonian times were being murdered.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Read my message again, 250k Palestinians had been expelled by May 1948 and there is plenty of documentation for that, can you point to any source that undeniably says that 250k Jews were systematically kicked out of their homes by May 1948?
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS The truth about the Arab Refugee problem is complex and requires an understanding of the political and demographic conditions. In conditions of war, people out of fear leave their homes.It's normal in those conditions, to move away to a place of safety. In the 1936-39 Arab Revolt, 30,000 Arabs left. Most of the 700k moved to other parts of then Palestine;350k resettled on the West Bank. 200k in Gaza, 100k in East Jordan, 90k in Lebanon,60k in Syria...
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Was the Nazi persecution of Jews complex? Was it a crime what the Nazis do or do you think it's pretty clear that one side was the oppressor and the other victim?
Why do you insist that those terrorist Jews who planned the ethnic-cleansing were not outright criminals? What was so complex about their intentions that they declared openly and what is so complex after the release of classified IDF record that documents their planning of the terrorism?
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS They were not "terrorist Jews". The mindset at the time was that the Arabs would try to murder the Jews. 3 years before saw the end of one of worst crimes in all humanity. What do you think people were feeling in those desperate days. Get it out of your head- there was no ethnic cleansing. If there was, ask yourself why 20% of israel's population is Arab? Unless of course you believe the ridiculous notion that every little slip here and there is part of some grand design.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Did you ever wonder why 80% of the Native Palestine population was kicked out? Stop your nonsense, they were terrorists, anyone who kills unarmed villagers or blows up a hotel or a bus is a terrorist. Palestinian terrorists are native people who are fighting for equal rights and right of return, the Jewish terrorists of 1940s were colonial settlers who wanted supremacy and wanted dominance over natives.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Were the Arabs unarmed? Did the 5 Arab armies fight with marshmellows? Go and read some more. Good night
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Who are you to say that the Nazi Holocaust was "the worst" crime ever, how about Vietnam's Holocaust? Iraqi Holocaust? Native American Holocaust? African American Holocaust? How about the various mini-Holocausts that Israeli terrorists carried out on Lebanon and Palestine? Who are you to say that dying in a gas chambers is worse than dying from napalm or white phosphorus?
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS "Who are you to say that the Nazi Holocaust was "the worst" crime ever," You mean to say it was one of the "best crimes"?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Did I say it was the ONLY crime? No .
nevskixx 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS What's a mini holocaust?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Massacres of 250 people is nothing for you? How about 1400 in Gaza in 2008-09? How about 1000 killed in Lebanon 2006? How about more than a million cluster bombs dropped on civilian population, what was called Dahiya strategy by Israeli war criminals? (Dahiya was the name of the area that was flattened, i.e. terrorize the whole population so there is no resistance to occupation) How about 20,000 murdered in Lebanon in 1980s including thousands in Sabra and Shatilla by Sharon?
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS You mention nothing about the causes of these wars, not a word about the thousands of qassams, the rocket attacks from Hezbollah, the incessant hostilities by the Arabs, the potential Iranian threat . You commingle the deaths of Arabs killed by Jews, with those killed by Christians and other Arabs, yet it is all Israel's doing, in your opinion. War is horrific and casualties are regrettable, but Israel has not committed a "mini" holocaust or any type of holocaust.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
You are a shameless apologist who justifies occupation, apartheid, home demolitions, land grab and Israeli massacres of tens of thousands of people, there is no point in talking to you.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS The tragedy is that there are 2 narratives to this tale for which there appears to be no reconciliation. It is in one way a religious/cultural issue that stems from tribalism - a feature that exists in other parts of the world. Why one society develops and another either doesn't or does very slowly is a debatable issue. The fact that Islam today in this region shows little tolerance to other religions is a deep concern. In Iraq recently,400k Christians have already left.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS You have formed a view of Israel that is much bandied about. It is simply bigotry at best to refer to Israelis as Apartheid or Nazis causing mini-holocausts when the reality is so different. You exaggerate - tens of thousands are not massacred, children are not murdered every day. In fact the opposite is closer to the truth.So I ask where does this hatred stem from ?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
You have formed a view of Israel that only Israeli terrorists hold. It is simply bigotry to refuse to acknowledge that Jewish-only roads, Jewish-only settlements and demolitions of native Palestinians is apartheid. This is not a blind hatred of all people of a religion, I have no hatred for peaceful Jews but I have hatred for land-grabbing racists who believe they are the "chosen ones" and they can kick the natives out of a certain land.
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
@nevskixx Correction: Children are never targeted or massacred.
And did Optomist answer the question I posed? I repeat it. From where does his hatred stem from?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx Children are never targeted or massacred? Are you not aware of the Israeli bombing of Palistinian schools during the 2009 Gaza MASSACRE?? they had those schools on a gps system, they purposely bombed those schools!, killing inncocent palistinian children. It was condemed world wide.
Also perhaps you should look at Alan Harts (BBC Middle East correspondent for many years) 5 part documentry on Israel.
lalalady4216 11 months ago
Hello lalalady4216 . I make a clear distinction between using terms like "massacre and the "targeting" of innocent and with those who tragically were caught up in battle and who fell victim . Also much has been made of the attacks on Mosques, but subsequent research later by the likes of Colonel Tim Collins have disclosed that much of the destruction came from secondary explosions which is conclusive proof of storage. Children have also been abused by Hamas in this war, don't you think?
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx there really is no need for such a distinction, those schools were indeed targeted. Make no mistake on that, they had those schools on a gps tracking system. They targeted those schools with the full knowledge of what they were doing. Actually an interesting fact regarding hamas and their rockets, only 18 Israelis died from hamas rockets between 2000-2008, also worth noting that more israelis die frm peanut attacks every year. So yes. hamas have of course killed israelis>
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 I did not express myself well regarding the terms targeting innocent people and the killing of innocent people as a result of targeting combatants. Colonel Richard Kemp made the point more eloquently when he gave evidence at the UNHRC about a year ago. What however troubles me, reading your post is the obvious point:Given an opportunity, Hamas would not be killing 18 Israelis, but would try to kill as many people as it could. Hamas' Charter declares all Jews are targets.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx oh i completely agree with you, hamas are murderers and i strongly condem their actions as i obviously disagree with murder, even if it is for a cause. However one should look at the fact that israel has also had the oppertunity(ample, infact)to murder not only hamas but also innocents and it has always taken that oppertunity, ever since its establishment.(i would also like to point out that dave is correct in his figure of israelis killed, but the number of 18 by rockets stands) >
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 I read your post with interest. That you are Irish seems to explain at least the concern for innocent ordinary folk that do get caught up in conflict and brings home the fears of sectarian violence . The Middle East unfortunately is more worrying . Whether Arab or Jew, innocent people have died or have been injured. It's difficult to dictate to a country under fire from rockets what it must do to protect its citizens.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx however, as i am irish i can somewhat sympathise(that may be the wrong word lol) with the palistinians who have elected hamas. Israel has illegally obtained gaza, east jerusalum and also 40%of the west bank(sitting on palistinian water) , this has been declared by the international ct of justice and therefore i feel that palistinians have a right to fight for that stolen/illegally occupied land. Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country in the world and yet it>
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 I do think there have been many attempts to resolve this conflict. As with Ireland it will take a POLITICAL solution to resolve it. The 2 sides must agree to end it. Much has been said over the breach of resolutions and international law and the plethora of resolutions passed against Israel This says a lot about the World's failure to stop human rights abuses in countries like Libya, Iran Algeria, China and North Korea with several thousands dead. And Congo? 5-7million dead!!
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx continues to be allowed through the aid of US vetos to continue its illegal actions, as im sure you are aware. Look, israel is fine in principle but it has gone beyond what is was entitled too. It has illegally obtained land by war and therefore is creating the backlash from the palistinians and therefore hamas. I feel for the palistinians because they have been unfairly treated by the israeli zionists.View alan harts history of isreal.Very insightful.i respect ur opinion tho.good luck
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 Israel in fact has very strong legal claims, going back to the 19century when land was purchased. Did you know that in 1929 after a pogrom ordered by the Mufti of Jerusalem, 65 Jews that lived in Hebron (on today's West Bank) were murdered in cold blood. The community fled. Was that legal? And why shouldn't Jews be allowed to live in a new Arab State of Palestine. Yet the PA declares no Jew will be allowed to live there.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx Im not sympathetic to the palistinians because of sectarianism per se, I am not from northern ireland and was never subjected to that, however, our history has shown that where land is illegally obtained by force(as was the case before our independence) that it is a knee jerk reaction to protect what has been wrongfully taken from you. The only strong claim israel has to anything is the land which was issued to them. I do not dispute that they deserve that initial 55%.>
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 The question about land rights is not a simple one. In recent times, that is from 1967 onwards, the pressure on Israel to "revert" back to pre-1967 borders seems to be a common thought. However, the "1967 border" in fact is not a border at all, but a 1949 armistice line (the Green Line ),after the 1948 War along the points where hostilities ceased, not the defined border of a new country. In 1947 the land was to be partitioned, but the Arabs went to war to destroy Israel instead.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx These terms were first set out under agreed terms between the Zionists, the Hashemites and the existing world powers and were unanimously voted bon by the League of Nations. The British reneged on their pledge by ceding East Palestine to the Hashemites. As part of a deliberate policy of imperialist doctrine they made every effort to prevent a realisation of her pledge, restricting immigaration to Jews and encouraging unrest. These earlier events are what led to today's conflicts.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx But even before 1917, Jews were buying lands all over Palestine. By 1917, the Jews owned 7% and the Arabs owned 22% The rest was uncultivated land belonging to the Turks , which was uncultivated land which the Jews were unable to buy. The declaration of 1917 signaled a turning point for Jews suffering persecution . So when we talk today about illegal settlement, are these truly illegal. Yes, there is some land grabbing, but the overall dynamic is not one of illegality.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 The ownership of land issue even pre-dates 1947. In 1917 the Balfour Declaration was a clear pledge to the Jews that they would be given a homeland in Palestine , a district of Southern Syria under the Ottomans and that the rights of non-Jews were not to be prejudiced. That is present day Jordan, the West Bank and Israel. The Ottoman Empire was carved out and Arabs were allocated territory under mandates by France and Britain for both Arabs and Jews.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx (although im sure hamas would still have a problem with that, but i do not) but where Israel has gone too far has been the settlements and take over of gaza, east jerusalum and that 40%of the westbank, it is non disputible, they are illegally occuping the remaining percentage of the arab land partitioned to them. It is illegal, they have also targeted their water suppies,arab, not the Israeli.There is no legal claim for any of that whatsoever. Thats my problem. But we wont agree:-)
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 One last point. Israel comprises of 10,000 square miles. The Arab lands comprise of over 7 million square miles and they are still not satisfied and would like the Jews to leave.They have not expressed any desire for Jews to live among them, whilst Israel's population comprise of 20% Arab with full civic rights. What happened to the 700,000 Jews that once lived among the Arabs up until 1950?.Apart from Morocco, there are hardly any. It is a very sad conflict.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx I am aware of all you ahve said, although while i am aware of all of it i think perhaps we have a slightly (only slightly different) view of the realities of past events. However it does not negate from the fact that it is illegal to obtain land by use of force/war. End of discussion as far as im concerned. Also, while you 100%in saying that israel has a 20% arab population within it, it should be noted that not one department of Israels govt has one arab in any position of power >
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 "However it does not negate from the fact that it is illegal to obtain land by use of force/war". But that's very much the point. The land belonged to the Jews BEFORE any war happened. The land was to be given to the Jews after the 51 members League of Nations unanimously agreed to the creation of a new state. It was held on trust under the British, only that the British breached the terms and fueled the enmity between Arab and Jew.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx In 1947, the UN Partition Plan was rejected by the Arabs, which would have allowed for a 2 state solution and elected for war. 5 Armies invaded including Jordan. When hostilities ceased, Jordan had seized the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Now that WAS illegal. It was held until the 1967 war. The status of those territories remain disputed and as there is some tacit recognition of Palestinian Arabs, it's for the parties to agree.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx take it up with the international court of justice.
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 The problem is that the Court of International Justice is of no consequence regarding legal sovereignty. No one can undo a country, so to speak, though a country may agree to relinquish its rights to another, say ina compromise. That's part of the mistake in the present mode of thinking. That;s why I believe that it will be a political and not legal determination that will hopefully one day end the conflict.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx Not even a secratary job. That is absolute fact. So we see that the running of israel and of the illegally obatined land (gaza, east jerusalum and part of the westbank) is soely down to zionist jews. I have a majour issue with israeli policy on many levels, but i do not dispute that jews deserve that home land, i just think they dont deserve all they believe they are entitled to. They are not entitled to steal what has not been allocated to them, as seen in icj's rulings. Be safe!:-)
lalalady4216 11 months ago
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@nevskixx Not even a secratary job. That is absolute fact. So we see that the running of israel and of the illegally obatined land (gaza, east jerusalum and part of the westbank) is soely down to zionist jews. I have a majour issue with israeli policy on many levels, but i do not dispute that jews deserve that home land, i just think they dont deserve all they believe they are entitled to. They are not entitled to steal what has not been allocated to them, as seen in icj's rulings. Be safe!:-)
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 I like you lalalady. I find this dialogue sympathetic. I hear what you say and believe you speak from a well intentioned position. Israeli society is diverse, and far from perfect. Yet,even when there is an outrage, Jews do not take it out on Arabs. Arabs on the whole fair better many times over than in Arab countries. It's not a myth. A Jew can be operated on by an Arab at a hospital or be tried by an Arab Judge, have free education, be a journalist, be in business with Jews.
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx youre correct it will be a political reconciliation in the end, when ever that day comes. However, i still believe that israel has no right to occupy gaza, east jerusulum or any of the west bank. wheile i understand that many jews have ethnic ties to that area, i believe at this stage they only deserve what they were given, not what they assume they deserve. I dont hate jews, i sympathize with zionism in principle, just not the realities(most). anyways i may go but take of yourself!
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@lalalady4216 "i still believe that israel has no right to occupy gaza,.." Israel left Gaza in 2005. The only Jew there is Gilad Shalit who was kidnapped 4 years ago.Israel controls border access on the israeli side and sea.but supplies essentials. Until this week that is.Hamas has called for a boycott of Israeli products. Can you believe it!? Regarding other territory: many in Israel have been willing to compromise territorially for peace since 1947. By all means visit. It's never dull. Be well
nevskixx 11 months ago
@nevskixx but the amount of killings israel have done is not in any porportunate to that of isralis killed.for example when 16 isralis were killed in 2009 by hamas, israel murdered over 600 palistinians, over 370 of which were civilians If you watch alan harts dicumentry on israel you will see that israel from the beginning has been less than up front. murder of any kind is horrific, but in my opinion israel always goes a step to far to further its goals and vendettas.but i respect ur opinion:-)
lalalady4216 11 months ago
@optimistsRUS The problem is, that given the chance, the Arabs would be quite willing to do the dirty deed and one day they are hoping to do it. That's the worry.
Don't get me wrong, Israel is not perfect. Far from it. No country is . It is by far not the worst. So why does Israel get more disapprobrium than any other country? And you still have provided me with no proper explanation as to why so many Jews from Arab countries ended up stateless and finally were absorbed by Israel?
nevskixx 1 year ago
...It was clear from 1936 onwards that the Arabs had opted to not want to live with the Jews and to eliminate them. Under such conditions and with the restriction on Jewish immigration and what was happening in Europe, there was a feeling, but NO policy to transfer Arabs among some of the Zionist. Pappe plays this point in reverse. and he is misleading...
nevskixx 1 year ago
It's important also to realise how Palestine's population lived literally side by side. Arab and Jewish villages and in the cities Arab and Jewish neighbourhoods. When civil war broke out in November 1947- for the Palestinian Arabs it was a battle to the last By march 1948, the civil war was very violent. many middle-class Arabs had left their homes and had moved to Nablus and Damascus, comprising of much of the leadership. The Palestinians effectively were leaderless.
nevskixx 1 year ago
Without leadership, the Arabs panicked. The Hagannah from April-July 1948 had gone on to the offensive and in panic about 300k took the example of their leaders and began to flee. NO expulsion orders. 10 days in July saw the expulsion of about 50k Arabs. Attacks and counterattacks led to Jews taking some towns, where Arab attacks on supply routes had caused major disruption.Many fled, but many also remained, for example in nazareth., a major Arab town in israel today.
nevskixx 1 year ago
In october 1948 in the South 200k upped and left for Gaza. Many believed they would be able to return after the war, but there was a concern that these Arabs would not be loyal to the new state and were left as refugees. The crime, if ever there was one was for the Arab countries for all these years to leave these people "Stateless" and for political reasons having elected to go to war and lose has caused great shame. So in short. NO POLICY to expel Arabs.
nevskixx 1 year ago
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@optimistsRUS What a shameful comment you make Optomist about the so gentle Arabs who did not harm a Jew. Yes, there were a few incidents, some of them rumours, of Zionist activity in Iraq for example to try to persuade Jews to leave, but how can a handful of incidents compare to the overall catastrophe that recked communities. Egypt and Libya expelled them. Iraqi Jews who had been there since Babylonian times were being murdered.
nevskixx 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Your comment belies a deep antipathy towards Jews, and a completely polemical attitude with total misunderstanding of historical truth. Shameful really. Sorry Optomist, I have to say it. Just check Wikipedia for just some bare bone facts before writing nonsense. It's not to be taken as total truth, but you can see from this what errant nonsense you have written."No violence against Jews in other Arab Lands"--Really?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@optimistsRUS Many Arabs remained in Israel and make up 20% of the non_Jewish population. In 1949 at the Lausanne confernce Israel did consider the return of 100000 displaced Arabs in return for recognition and secure borders. . Why should Israel allow these largely hostile people to return to Israel, numbered at around 4 million. To destroy it? And what about those Arab countries who chose war over partition/ Why have kept this wretched people as refugees, rather than absorb them?
nevskixx 1 year ago
@nevskixx
Palestine had a 6% Jewish population in 1900, 11% in 1922 and 34% in 1947 (with only 6% land owned by Jews in 1947) and in 1948 they occupied 80% of the land and declared it Israel and between November 47 and May 48 they expelled a total of 750-800k of the native population (about 80% of the native population). Why should the immigrants have the right to live in stolen land and the natives not have the right?
34% Jews were offered 54% land and you think Arabs were wrong to reject it?
optimistsRUS 1 year ago
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salvatrucha816 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23
When you do call me, however, please ensure to stand
well "DOWN WIND" so I'm not further repulsed by the smell
if SHIT which is YOU!..
That's my one request kind sir!
salvatrucha816 1 year ago
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How do U Kill That Which Has NO LIFE???
TrevorThornwell 1 year ago
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salvatrucha816 1 year ago
How do U Kill That Which Has NO LIFE???
TrevorThornwell 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Did you say would "flame me" or "lame me"?
As you do seem to be more of the latter!!
Please advise!!
peckhammanor 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 you seem to be changing the subject.
I were talking about you hiding behind fake accounts, and stalking me all over he tube? were you abused much as a kid? at what age did you start seeking
"comfort" from men?
peckhammanor 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 why do you keep stalking me?
I'm not gay!! get used to it..you sad freak!!
peckhammanor 1 year ago
wonderful, tx.
andthereisntone 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Cowardice doesnt enter into it. Herr Professor!
What am a negotiator for the State of Israel? Which Israel? The Jews in Israel!
kreplach2 1 year ago
For some reason Im not being labeled as spam today. Thats good.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Israel or the Jewish nation in the areas is not defined by time. Its defined by presence. Arabs have to recognize Jews as equals and neighbors and work from there
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 recognize the Jews as equals? recognize roads they can't use but Jews can? recognize checkpoints they spend hours in, but Jews don't? recognize water supplies and fertile land that is only accessible to Jews? you are right tho that Jews are not equal to Arabs, like their settlements they have a way higher ground
minakelada 1 year ago 9
@minakelada Recognize Jews as equals in 1920? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 1939? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 1948? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 1967? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 1983? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 2001? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 2006? Nope
Recognize Jews as equals in 2008? Nope
kreplach2 1 year ago
@minakelada We gave the Palestinians enough time to find peace, equality and the golden rule. RIIIGHT?
kreplach2 1 year ago
Bwnny Morris retracted his numerous "Zionist massacres". Look it up.
There is no implied. If he desires an expulsion NOW that means that there was no expulsion in 1948. Try thinking it helps. Reasoning is not your forte Professor LOL
kreplach2 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23
You know making fun of typos doesnt elevate your holiness or genius.
kreplach2 1 year ago
For some strange reason my reply that I just wrote in response to PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 was flagged as spam. Maybe Im being censored???
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23
I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
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kreplach2 1 year ago
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Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them.
XXXXXXXXX All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Bad english. ??????
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 I thought arguing was fruitless? LOL
Arabs have officially recognize the equality of Jews to Muslims and their presence among them. All Israel's. Arabs should negotiate the green line border. Thats something going on RIGHT now. Jerusalem, Isreal, and the settlements all figure in negotiations. But theres no real peace without recognition as existing and equality.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Benny Morris retracted his charges and wants Palestinians expelled. Your Prophecy of Doom cliche is no subsitute for actual thinking. I find your summary of behaviours applies to the Jew Hater vairety of Ant Zionists.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Where's maxfedor?
kreplach2 1 year ago
Im kreplach2 and krepiach2 is my fake impersonator. He is a clone. Hes a Jew hater on an unholy mission.He trolls youtube looking for my comments in order to confuse. He pretends to be me or he spams the video. You cant get more despicable. Hes the most satanic poster Ive found here.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krepIach2 Todays copy and paste spam starts with Palestinians are the natives of Canaan .......
Who are you addressing, fake krepiach??
im the only one here. Youre trashing, cloning and spamming days will soon be over. You dont even have a channel. Who would listen to you??? Youre an imposter!!
Everybody! Click on the names to see whos
the most INSANE PARANOID DELUSIONAL satanic poster
kreplach2 1 year ago
kreplach2 1 year ago
As I expected more messages intended to bury mine. I reply when youre not around, Unless you want to to do surveillance for a few hours, its your life, A very black one.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@PROFESSOR23MAEHEMM23 Argueing with these people is exactly like arguing with creationists. They refuse to look at the insurmountable evidence staring them in the face. Every reputable israeli historian even pro zionists like Benny Morris admit ethnic cleansing was inbuilt into zionism. But let me guess a jew that go against israel is a self hating jew. Its childish rhetoric spouted to quell any dissent
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 I believe you see insurmountable evidence of yours id transparent or illusory. You only consider anti- Zionist leftist israeli historians as reputable. No others. Anyway Benny Morris has retracted alot and is now right wing supporting expulsion of Arabs. Still love him?
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 What kind of historian retracts his research. I think morris is a dispicable apologist. He has not retracted his statement that there was ethnic cleansing, all he has changed is now he says it wasnt planned. But he still admits it happened. And using perjorvative terms like anti zionist leftists does not affect the factual accounts of history. The facts are the facts, whether said by the right or the left.
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 Facts are the facts, But sometimes you need background.
Why do you quote Morros when you KNOW he is a dispicable apologist??
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 i quote him cause you cant accuse him of being leftist,anti semite, self hating jew. He is a right wing pro zionist that agrees that israeli government engaged in ethnic cleansing. Please show how morally bankcrupt you are by defending any kind of ethnic cleansing. let me guess you will reply with the typical rhetoric that is was done for security issues.
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 There is no ethnic cleansing. No great loss of life No evacuations. Palestinians to get maximum PR exaggerate all these claims. And have a hoax industry to back this up. Was that classified as rhetoric?
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Under international law an oppressive occupying force does not have the right to security if they continue oppressing a people by breaking international law
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 You want to discuss for a few hours,???Na-a-a-a-H I come back to make it easy on myself.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 Define oppression! Thats rhetoric in reference to the Palestinians Ha! Youre the typical Israel hater who loves to wrap accusation in vague blankets of mumbo jumbo rhetoric. When I strip this away You guys go =POOF= !
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 so the UN, international courts, BT Selem, amnesty international,human rights watch, we are all wrong and your right. pretty obnoxious of you. but one would have to be that obnoxious and ignorant to dedend IDF and the government. And your wrong, i dont hate Israel; i despise any political ideology that prevent everyone being treated equally. like i said you cant tell me how i took Dayan or Jabotinsky out of context. Arguing with you is like arguing with a creationist.you fail
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 Ha! you never relax. Is there an alarm that goes off ZIONIST ZIONIST ZIONIST When I log on LOL. DOes your alarm scream JEW JEW JEW JEW !!!
Youre putting words in my mouth. A very old tactic. You then condemn me for those VERY words
kreplach2 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 There we go with the Israel hater crap that loves to wrap accusation in vague blankets of mumbo jumbo rhetoric! You are predictable! Almost like your coached. The UN, BT Shelem, HRW Amnesty Inter, and the International courts dont agree with EACH OTHER. How can you say theyre right? Imbecile!
kreplach2 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 In Israel official everyone gets treated equally. Its not as successful as in the USA but its working. Better than Arab states fOR SURE! Dont draw me into your quotes. Youre bound to prove YOUR POINTS IM waiting!!!
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 An occupied people have a right to defend themselves. Just like the resistance movement in europe against the nazi's had a right to defend themselves from a foreign invader. No rational human being can argue that the zionist movement didnt occupy land that wasnt theirs. And the british had no right to give away land that wasnt theirs. ANd the majority of american jewry is liberal and that is why aipac fights so hard in the states cause more and more liberal jews
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 Occupied people? Like Gaza? Gaza is Jew free!
The Palestinian resistance is=not based on liberation butr xenophobia. The first leader the Grand Mufti asserted he could not live next to Jews so he had to get rid of them. The Zionists took Arab land after the armastice lines were drawn up anf the 5 Arab Armies were expelled from Palestine.The British never gave away land. Thats sheer delusion. "fights so hard"???
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 (who believe in justice and human rights) can no longer stand behind Issrael's colonial rule. There is many polls done in the US that shows less and less support for Israel by american Jewry. Only the irational right wing conservative jew who cares not to follow international law back the Zionist movement
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 Your polls are illusory. But hey prove me wrong. Lets see your "polls"!
BTW ARABS didnt MIND 400 years of Ottoman colonialism.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 so with your logic its ok for europeans to colonize countries again cause they did it in the past. 2 wrongs dont make a right
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@maxfedor1 I do expect the strategy of numerous messages to bury me to continue but that wont stop me.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 No iam just asking you to show i took those quotes out of context. Dont muddy the waters, Prove to me and anyone reading these comments that i took Jabotinsky or Dayan out of context. Dont qoute some website, prove me wrong by sorcing their books
maxfedor1 1 year ago