Seems that this guy is (at least a former) con artist. Look up the thread on the MyBitcoin fiasco and Bold Funding, Inc., on bitcointalk org. MyBitcoin, the formerly leading eWallet service for bitcoin, which Bruce promoted heavily on his show, may have absconded with half of its users bitcoin holdings (several hundred thousand dollars worth) while putting out vague, contradictory stories about having been hacked.
So what's the difference between this and money ? If it relies on the dollar to have any value, or if it ever replaces the dollar, then how is it anything special ? No amount of decentralizing a currency will change anything; the bitcoins will flow upwards in the social structure, and the social stratification will undergo no change.
As "awesome" as it seems, it doesn't change the root problems of human society.
i bought bitcoins just to find out whats going on? KNOW HOW / i just transfer money from my bank account to company that has HSBC bank account that exists on central London so what is the different between HSBC and BITCOIN>COM all of them show me my account online!
18:20 to 19:00 you get it quite wrong and I don't know why Bruce didn't correct you.
Bitcoins are created at a rate of 50 every 10 minutes no matter how many people are mining. The "difficulty" of the mining problem is adjusted to make sure that's the case. And so the supply and demand thing doesn't happen - the supply is constant (except that the rate halves every 4 years) regardless of the demand.
@ohiovr No, they aren't being openly subversive. There are other 'alternative' currencies out there that aren't being vilified, because they have a different spin. See berkshares.
Hello bitcoin fans I just want to do my part to help promote bitcoins so I will be selling American Silver Eagles for bitcoins. I also have half dollars, war nickles, dimes, and quarters. Just visit my channel and lets make a deal. TIA
So this is like an electronic SSN, or digital ID of sorts? Say government would decide to adopt this currency in the future and require you to pay taxes in bitcoins... Technical abilities granted to the government via "patriot act" and "net neutrality" could be used to block someone from using their bitcoins - right? They would be able easily manipulate those using bitcoins.
This sounds like the worm farms in the 1970's. I think this is a scam. Money should not be use to make money. It should be used as a means to exchange goods and services.
There are going to be some big loosers at the end of this. If this really takes off, you watch the banksters come after you. Good luck. I would be buying gold and silver if you don't like gambling.
what about how TRACKABLE this is... there is no cash market because it's all electronically tracked... i.e. when the government wants to ask why you have so much cash... it's not like we've gotten rid of taxes first.
Seems very controllable by a government.
If they just have a node on the network, the y'll have everyones finances right... what money/bitcoin they have, etc?
@pyrrho314 No, not at all. Yes, if the govt ran a bitcoin client, they would have the ledger that knows which hashes have how many bitcoins (just like anyone who runs a client), but 1) they wouldn't know which hash corresponds to which person unless that person published their hash, which most people have a public hash for transfers and a private hash to store their bitcoins, and 2) they couldn't block transfers or take from anyone unless that person voluntarily uses their client to send them
@troyerrdt of course, thanks I stand corrected, a public private key anonymity, I should have realized that actually from what I read about them recently.
And maybe you could add a "weight" to the game's traditional currency (people can only carry around so much weight) while keeping the new currency weightless to simulate the ease with which people can trade Bitcoins digitally to see if that would actually drive people to adopt this new resource as a currency in the game.
Some of these currency ideas should be tested out in MMORPGs. You could have the currency centralized for the game's sake and it wouldn't matter. What would be important is that you don't have the game host offer anyone any goods/services for the new currency. In this way the currency wouldn't have any guaranteed value. Perhaps you could also tax the game's traditional currency to see if this would drive users to make the switch to the new currency.
@pyrrho314 Yeah I'm not sure why there aren't more MMORPGs being used for this purpose. It seems like the perfect way to perform a big social experiment and could be done for a very low cost. Just create a scare supply of something in a game that can be easily divided up and carried around (good for currency) and see if people will begin to use it for currency or if the value of it will crash, as I think Bitcoin will crash eventually.
@Shezmu Ignore what I said about wealth distribution problems. I think the Bitcoins are going to collapse after new people stop joining it. It seems like most people buying Bitcoins are buying them in the hope that they can later sell them again for a higher price. They're not using Bitcoins enough to buy actual goods. With inflating US dollars I can work at my job and use the money to buy goods from a number of stores, but not with Bitcoin. When Bitcoin inflates, everyone will try to sell.
I think if Bitcoin gets too popular then the government is certainly going to try to tax Bitcoin or else shut it down... But if there's no way for it to succeed in taxing Bitcoin and there's no way it can shut Bitcoin down either due to how Bitcoin is so decentralized, then what's going to happen? Could this be the way to anarchy? Despite the wealth distribution problems I'd be worried about for people who get in early vs late, if its not taxable or shut-down-able then it could become huge.
@WelcometotheUnknown - I can't let this go, what wealth distribution problems? People who got rich off of bitcoin if they really rich are rich because they got in when everyone thought bitcoin wasn't going to catch any flame (still might not). Also, I don't see how any general wealth distribution solutions assuming solutions are actually needed could not be applied to bitcoin.
there are couple of things that make me very sceptical about bitcoin, first as an anarchist i find it very disturbing that in current stage of bitcoin, people who have money(investors, entrepreneurs) are tripling their money, but meh, just thats me and what i think about that is irrelevant.
now what worries me more is internet, since we do not control the internet access the bitcoin can be "shut down" pretty easily .
BC is BS. Didn't it lose 35% of value a few days ago? I thought that only happened in manipulated markets...oh. BC is good for guys with server farms but as for the rest of us we can whistle in the wind. By the way last I heard the creators had been invited to Langley for a little chat....
how bout this guys. I am incredibly computer, economics, and legel savvy and I am not willing to say I fully understand bitcoin...but it makes sense so far. I'll be doing some more research.... I doubt I'll ever buy any in the near future( or mine them) but just to remind everyone... land will always be the ultimate investment and creator of wealth.
My question to the Bitcoin aficionados, hypothetically, if noone is selling bitcoins, is it possible to still buy bitcoins? Do they wait in some kind of middle world, a purgatory if you may. Also the first person who bought Bitcoins, where did they come from? It connects to my first question.
Dude lost all his cred when he said A) the creator of bit coins is anonymous and not important...O-K. When have you ever heard about someone who invents something revolutionary and doesn't want to take credit for it? Sounds pretty shady to me. B) he says "mining" is over! NOW you should just buy bit coins with CASH! Ahahahaha! Come on make me rich now that I have a whole bunch for these 1's and O's that I got for almost nothing. Ahahahahahah! Do you want my credit card or can I write a check? ha
@GeneralKashenblade - I see why the first point would cause alarm in the general sense, but in the case of currency and in light of recent events, you really can't blame a guy/gal who created a currency that could threaten a government currency (i.e. any non-government controlled currency) for wanting to maintain his/her anonymity. As for the second point, the guy in the video isn't getting any money that isn't donated to him and even if he was, the program is open source.
Hey Steph: Care to do a video "Pump and dump" investment strategies, and how your "Universally Preferable Behaviours" apply to those who are their promoters? I'd find that interesting as would many of your viewers I'm sure...
Fundamental truth about Bitcoin... global population... internet penetration 31% in the middle east, 11% in africa, 23% in asia and finally 36% in central america. So essentially, if you have brown or black skin and don't speak english you are completely out of the bitcoin system. "Hey here's a new money system! Same as the old money system"... keeping the poor out of the system. There are 6.9 Billion people on earth, 2 Billion have network access... Bitcoin is worse than bad.. it's terrible.
@ShinEmperor The current money system does not keep anyone out. In fact the reason it sucks so bad is because everyone is practically forced to use it, and the west can therefore manipulate it so value is transferred from poor currencies to rich ones. Bitcoin does not hurt anyone if they can choose to use something else. Do you want to keep the entire world at the same shitty level and have no progress? Better systems for some, does not mean worse systems for the rest.
@ShinEmperor - It sounds like you have the assumption that anything that doesn't benefit everyone rich and poor equally at the start is bad and evil. I'm pretty positive that this is a performitive contradiction since you used a computer to type that post and computers sure as hell didn't start off as something that the everyday joe could use in their own home.
@Shezmu Actually, I'm pointing out that it is just more of the same if people are left out of the system. So because I have it better than others, I shouldn't care about the welfare of others? How does that even make sense? I'm questioning the real "strength" of Bitcoin. It's a valid point too. How I stand personally makes zero difference. Also, if I could, I would make certain that every person on the planet owned a pc. But since I don't it concerns me when we try to adopt digital systems...
@ShinEmperor - My problem wasn't your concern for the economic status of others, but the seeming implication that other people are morally obligated to do so in the invention of new software.
Bitcoin is a scam, and the U.S. government won't give it any legal status. Enjoy your Monopoly money, you'll be left holding the bag soon enough, "dummies". LOL!
@openuniverse2003 you know what's sad, I bet the intrinsic value of a $1 monopoly money is higher than a $1 USD. I guess we'd have to ask Parker Brothers to know the real cost of that piece of the game & the real profit per box sold, over time.
@chris3443 (1) You idiots are being scammed to use your own computer power & electricity to hack hashes for Russian hackers, (2) the Bitcoin scam is essentially the gold standard using P2P and encryption, (3) bitcoin holders have no legal recourse in the courts, (4) the money supply of the dollar can be manipulated to help deal with inflation, deflation and unemployment. Bitcoins are even worse than gold since you can't use bitcoins the way gold can be used. How stupid are you people?
@openuniverse2003 1)You idiots are being scammed to use banks and security gaurds to stop high class Russian bank robbers with automatic armor piercing weapons. 2) Okay so Bitcoin is like the gold standard.....so what? 3)That's not true. Bitcoin is a form of property and if someone steals it is is theft. WTF are you talking about no legal recourse? 4)Well who's fault is that sir? Soon everything will be tied to computers Mr. openuniverse.
@DaveElectric You are an uneducated idiot. You are also an embarrassment to Satan! Satan would like you to take down the pentagram off of your YouTube channel, he does not want to be associated with someone as STUPID as you are. Take care.
@andrewh817 I will. But close enough to catch you losing your shirt in this latest fad/scam, so that I can laugh at you while you cry cry cry back to mommy!
I did not quiet get the procedure of buying bitcoins without using paypal. It also at least at present seems not to be the ideal currency for borrowing. The real rate of interest you pay is gigantic.
@modelmark "not to be the ideal currency for borrowing"
Borrowing itself is not ideal. If you really badly need to, you need to really understand what you will gain in the future from it. Much borrowing activity is vengeful usury designed to take profits. I want no part of that.
@modelmark The high interest would make sense if the currency is appreciating, since anyone giving you money would have to be making more by giving the money to you than by just sitting on it. If it is appreciating by 200% per year right now on average (number made up), the interest would have to be higher unless the lender is feeling charitable.
@chris3443 My point is that no one would borrow bitcoins, not even for 0% interest, because they would have to return far more valuable bitcoins in the future. The reason why borrowing dollars/euros/yen is so popular is because you pay worthless ones back in the future. That is also why not many save them.
It is impossible to have this 200% sustained, since productivity is not increasing that much. So the rise in rate is because of new dollars and euros flowing in, like with a Ponzi scheme
@modelmark - How is bitcoin any different than gold in this context? Gold definitely had productity spikes in the past and it turned out well. I also doubt that banks had any trouble lending out when the dollar was backed by gold.
@Shezmu every year about 3% more gold is mined, so that is pretty stable. But in the beginning you had production spikes, this caused prices to go up. Huge deflation you never had with gold. You can just ask yourself the question:would I borrow a bitcoin, spend it in the hope of buying it back later when it costs me 1000% more. I think you would not.
The main problem for bitcoin is that it will never be allowed to be accepted by bigger shops. They wil lbe agressed against.The coupons trick=Ponzi
Bitcoin is horrible invention. It shall be added to a list of banned substances,because it is hugely addictive. Since I first heard about bitcoins half a year ago, I have even stopped playing computer games. All I do is build and maintain those damn mining machines. These machines have taken over my life! My house feels, smells and sounds as a datacenter, my garage can be used for shooting Matrix4 (the scenes with really bad cable management in their ships and lots of blinking light). Beware!!!
@zdt7ihv I lol'd :) I have the same problem, just started bought a sapphire 5830. epic game card but i dont use it for the games xD If i start a game i almost inmediatly close it to continue mining O.o
Bitcoins are great. If it fails.. a new better one will follow.
... But its backed by nothing physical and real. Gold and silver can be divided up in the same way as bitcoin if they were stored in a 100% reserve bank. I'll hang on to my physical for when that happens. I at least can't afford to trust concepts to hold my wealth, but hey, I'll watch where this goes with a little interest.
The only - but unfortunately BIG - drawback of bitcoins is that they are not backed up by any extern good. They get their value solely through trust, people wanting to have bit coins just because they lik'em, and to a lesser extent, lack of alternatives. Neither of those is a basis for a stable currency.
Fluctuations will lead to less trust, the newness factor will decrease and alternatives will emerge (and you don't have to use e-currency either way as opposed to non-virtual currency).
@benjayk The thing is, you don't know that it's a "newness" factor that's causing its popularity. You should actually do some type of survey if you want the truth and get tired of making assertions that aren't backed by evidence... From what I've read it seems that it's popular because it's a decentralized money system and the transaction costs are basically ZERO! I can't think of a better idea for a currency not backed up by external goods than one using the internet.
@andrewh817 I didn't mean to imply it's only the newness factor that causing it's popularity. But I do think people are blinded by precisely the things you describe (decentralized money system and no transaction costs). This is not sufficient for a stable currency. I doubt the market can determine a stable (or rising) value just through trust in the currency.
I'm not certain at all that bitcoins will utterly fail. I just think it is likely that they will lose much value in the long run.
@RayWilliamJohnston So a currency that relies on electricity, the internet and computers is superior to gold because Alex Jones says it isn't? Great arguement there.
@YTKilledRawdog LMFAO, what do you think of this epic comment Ray made? I think he has things a little bassackwards. Any day now, Max Keiser will be on Alex Jones show stirring up a Bitcoin google bomb. Any day now...
"love to see the most brilliant minds come together with the most insane, paranoid ones. Negative comments about bitcoins are all coming from Alex Jones NWO morons who just want to appear skeptical and intelligent. They fear what they don't understand."
Stefan the lotery number he is talking about is it decided by a random number generator because thats hard to imagine, and if there is a algorithm behind the lottery number then it can get abused.
This guy reminds me of the optimistic sales guy that promises the world on a promise... or whatever the expression is. I am a little disappoint that Stef did not calm his nerves with real critical thinking questions. Maybe Stef has fallen into the fanaticism of it all.
Stef, I was a little disappointed because I thought you would have addressed the larger agorist-related economic themes around bitcoin, such as potential for widespread tax-free exchange, impact on nation-State tax policy, irrelevancy of international capital controls, and the de-politicization of currency.
@CalicoRegent As long as noone could centrally manage it, it would not be so dangerous. But I think it is unlikely that bitcoin would ever become the only "barter enhancer" out there.
Any intelligent individuals that choose to go to libertariannews see ' How To Use Bitcoin The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man " ,Please read the comments by Mike Montagne a mathematician who is the author of mathematically perfected economy SOLUTION .After one reads mikes comments one will only conclude with logic alone bitcoin is NO SOLUTION
Bitcoins CAN NOT BE ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED maybe ,BUT Bitcoins CAN MOST CERTAINLY BE ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED ,guaranteed folks.
@mortalisk Who would be interested in deflation? And why would it be bad?
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I see you havent read the mikes comments libertariannews ,look around you now, we are NOT suffering from excess circulatory inflation ,we are suffering from massive circulatory deflation at a rate faster than any bail out or national debt can arrest . And you ask WHY deflation is bad ? price inflation & circulatory inflation have primarily 2 very different causes & until people see the diff they will be forever lost.
@chotaboy66 I didn't really understand it. So, if I have a certain amount of money, why would it be bad for me if prices were falling? And would it be bad for anyone else? If you mean that my bank will go bankrupt and a lot of businesses would too, then I would think that was a good thing, because I am taking a risk by having it in my bank, which is why my savings are in gold and silver(and some amount in bitcoins now). Taking risks need to be risky for the one taking it.
@mortalisk why would it be bad for me if prices were falling
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One has to look at CIRCULATORY inflation & PRICE inflation first. Your circulation or national wealth is being stoled or depleted at a greater rate than any bailout or national debt injection sum .You have no real circulatory inflation, Banks can never print enough because banks launder it faster by the peoples loan contracts & payments. Price inflation is caused by charged interest local banks charge, interest that never created.
Plenty of people are buying items and services with bitcoins. I see most detractors as simply not being bitcoin users... in which point their opinion really doesn't matter.
I've seen only one person defend the USD in this whole debate and their argument was that the USD was backed by the military industrial complex and that if you don't use the dollar we'll attack you...
Well, that's not exactly the fundamental currency is backed by something of value idea I was taught in elementary school.
I think it's very important when talking about Bitcoin to differentiate between a good potential money you yourself would you and an investment. Apparently, it has been an amazing investment so far. I do have two coffin-sealing problems with Bitcoins namely that they do not have intrinsic value and have not emerged with a pre-existent barter price. Second, the US government might try to shut the it all down. Maybe that won't work though due to its decentralization.
@Fruerik "namely that they do not have intrinsic value"
Nothing has intrinsic value (including gold). Value is subjective, and imputed to goods according to their expected ability to satisfy wants. Facilitating indirect exchange, as well as retaining a relatively stable exchange price, are two characteristics of successful money that are highly serviceable with regard to the satisfaction of many people's wants.
"and have not emerged with a pre-existent barter price."
I think its a great idea and invention, but its not without it drawbacks. The bitcoin can be manipulated price wise - by simple hoarding. Not sure on the equations of how exactly the price of a bitcoin is calculated, but from this, it seems if some holders simply trade with each other in high volumes at ever increasing price, this will inevitably increase the price. Anyone ?
Stef - after perusing the comments here, you may want to consider doing a video on the concept of money. People are understandably wired into a certain doctrine of thought. After all, we ARE 4th generation debt slaves...
I think i understand economics and this aspect of bitcoin fairly well. Although beyond mp3's (downloading, listening to music) and surfing the web and facebook, im completely lost. Because i (think) i understand the economic potential. i want to get into this. otherwise, i have no idea what to do beyond downloading the client. can anyone lend a hand?
@scalp340 you're better off holding silver coins - bitcoins don't work without the power on & don't work with a non-secure concentrated internet which we do all have - meaning you can be traced, attacked, regulated, hacked+robbed. It's not worth the danger or btc mining cost in time+electricity
Im sorry but this guy sounds a little too....pump and dump to me. I think bitcoin is GREAT but $30 a pop is WAYYYYYY OVERSOLD.... WAY OVERSOLD. I forsee various other e-coins like bitcoin, and an eventual market stabilization at around $0.75 at BEST for all e-coins....$10,000 a bitcoin my anus.....
My issue with bitcoins is that the founder owns 25% of the bitcoins out there... he controls the market... There is no way I would spend a penny on a bitcoin... it has no value.
a) There is no 'founder', it's open source code developed by a group of volunteers on their spare time.
b) Nobody knows anything about the closest thing Bitcoin has to a founder, Satoshi Nakamoto, who posted the original source code.
c) The person who created the deepbit mining pool is the one who is suspected to have made the most amount of money off of bitcoins, at about 1% of the total supply of bitcoins.
@HeyItzMeDawg So what happens if your computer crashes and you dont have your wallet backed up in any way... are you screwed? This is not a currency IMHO. Its an interesting trade item, but one with 0 intrinsic value. Yes I might not fully understand this bitcoin thing, but honestly I don't think it will last long enough. It has too much of a fanatical following to be accepted by anything but. I understand why Stef likes it, because its a free market thing, but I don't see it lasting long term.
@l1xx3r "This is not a currency IMHO. Its an interesting trade item, but one with 0 intrinsic value"
Not only do you not understand bitcoin, you also don't understand what value is (which is tripping you up).
Nothing has intrinsic value (gold included), value is not embodied in goods. Value is subjective, it derives from the expected serviceability of a good in satisfying wants.
@bitbutter I think I understand better then you do. Its funny, cause most fanatics always say things like "You just don't understand" and stupid things like that... why they ignore your valid questions/comments (see original) and focus on how you don't understand. Thing I understand is that Bitcoin people are 1) Stupid for thinking this is a valid currency, 2) Stupid for not thinking how much fraud potential there is through this, 3) Bitcoins will never ever account for even 1% of transactions.
@l1xx3r q)Bitcoin is not a valid currency because people like you are influencing the subjective opinions and valueations of the Bitcoin. If everyone had a positive evaluation of the bitcoin then it would be a valid currecny. Your just creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. 2)Look dude, no currency doesn't have fraud potential. 3)Well who's fault is that sir? Keep up with the rhtetoic and you will be right.
All your arguements are nothing but a bunch of self-fulfilling prophecies.
@l1xx3r I notice that you didn't address my correction re. the nature of value. That's a shame. If you believe that I'm mistaken, feel free to explain why my explanation is faulty. If it's not, then bitcoin is as valid a currency as gold or any other money, and your claim is false.
@bitbutter Oh sorry I thought you were kidding that bitcoins has value like gold and silver and paper money backed by military and millions of people using it... I wonder how pretty a bitcoin watch would look... hey look I already have one... but its in my FUCKING imagination. Stupid retards. Yes its as valid as gold and silver as a currency, but so was seashells and feathers at some point, but then we grew up and understood money. Maybe you need to catch up.
@bitbutter LOL aren't you special, you can read and look back... but yet you still can't argue my points. In the first point I meant valid as in viable. Sorry... Slipped... it happens when I am talking to retards that just point out little mistakes instead of actually coming up with real arguments.
So far I've only seen unsupported assertions from you. Attempting to refute these would be redundant. If you believe you have a substantial complaint against the viability of bitcoin I'm all ears (disclaimer: I'm not certain of it's long-term prospects for survival, but the cast majority of the criticism I read betrays a complete failure to understand what bitcoin is, what money is, or both)
CIA talks, massive mainstream coverage, "legislation attacking" bitcoins because of nefarious activities, credits issued out of nowhere in a digital form being used a currency?
Yes of course...and that is why your so happy about it right?
Last I heard bitcoin was teaming up to comply so it could be taken seriously by people by complying with governments for oversight on money laundering ect...keep digging...
Its pretty clear to who anyone who cares to look that it is not a 'bankster creation'. And so what if it was? So what if it was? Think long and hard....
Not clear at all...the developer is anonymous...they are now in talks with the CIA...that is always encouraging since they are pretty much responsible for all drugs, terrorism and other bullshit being pressed on humans today...
Why can't people believe that something that seems so good on its surface...might not be?
They are in talks now supposedly to have oversight for money laundering ect...
@overlogg "Not clear at all...the developer is anonymous."
There is no 'the developer'. There's a development lead. Please reflect on the code being open source and what this means for the likelihood of this being a conspiracy tool.
@overlogg "Open source means the code can be changed"
No. The source code of any project can be changed. 'Open source' has a specific meaning. Google 'Open_Source_Definition' to inform yourself.
Anyone can submit changes to bitcoin which may or may not incorporated into the main branch. The repository is here: github [dot] com [slash] bitcoin [slash] bitcoin.
If you're concerned about disinformation I suggest you refrain from making assertions on subjects you don't understand.
I sincerely hope Bitcoin succeeds, but I'm still not sold on it. I think it is defeatable by TPTB, and most people will lose money on it. But, if it lasts until it goes asymptotic at 15 million or so, perhaps it will be viable, as long as we the people develop independent interwebs which can bypass the gov't net kill switches and WIFI jamming. However, I completely agree with Mr Wagner on at least one point; protect yourself from PayPal. Only connect a bank account to Paypal which you keep empty
bitcoins are dependent on electricity. would i be able to buy anything with my bitcoins if the electrical grid is wiped out or all the servers get fried? if there is a blackout i'll still be able to trade my silver coin for some food. it doesn't seem logical to invest with bitcoins so i'm out. sounds too pyramidal anyway, imo.
bitcoin is a scam, its already been hacked, completely non anonymous and will be cracked down on. Bitcoins are vulnerable to emp and anyone can easily do a one off currency. I would do it just to bust the bubble but I don't want any of the huge shitstorm that is about to descend on anyone using these.
They claim its completely unhackable "by today's KNOWN technology". Any of these guys ever heard of the US military/intelligence? They specialize in UNKOWN TECHNOLOGIES. Go take a look at their billion dollar black bird and then tell me bitcoin is unhackable.
@Hashishin13 Modern credit card companies use the same kinds of encryption techniques that Bitcoin uses. Quantum computers can theoretically break the encryption using brute force techniques in a reasonable time frame (a reasonable time frame being if they start now they might be finished some time in your life time, or quite possibly less); no other modern technology could brute-force crack modern encryption techniques in a hundred years.
@HeyItzMeDawg if you even have half an idea how much the cost is per qubit you just shove the problem-size above that qubit size then you can't crack it. Quantum computers can't entangle qubits for half the problem-size then do another chunk. It's all-or-nothing. They don't have the resources to do 20K qubits for example Probably not even 2K qubits.
@shaurz if you even have half an idea how much the cost is per qubit you just shove the problem-size above that qubit size then you can't crack it. Quantum computers can't entangle qubits for half the problem-size then do another chunk. It's all-or-nothing. They don't have the resources to do 20K qubits for example Probably not even 2K qubits. This requires near perfect-zero temperatures & fractions of a second for the entire problem to contain the entangled qubits.
Seems that this guy is (at least a former) con artist. Look up the thread on the MyBitcoin fiasco and Bold Funding, Inc., on bitcointalk org. MyBitcoin, the formerly leading eWallet service for bitcoin, which Bruce promoted heavily on his show, may have absconded with half of its users bitcoin holdings (several hundred thousand dollars worth) while putting out vague, contradictory stories about having been hacked.
baggytheo 5 months ago
So what's the difference between this and money ? If it relies on the dollar to have any value, or if it ever replaces the dollar, then how is it anything special ? No amount of decentralizing a currency will change anything; the bitcoins will flow upwards in the social structure, and the social stratification will undergo no change.
As "awesome" as it seems, it doesn't change the root problems of human society.
Omgadnowai 6 months ago
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spacedreams2111 6 months ago
i bought bitcoins just to find out whats going on? KNOW HOW / i just transfer money from my bank account to company that has HSBC bank account that exists on central London so what is the different between HSBC and BITCOIN>COM all of them show me my account online!
strongarabi 7 months ago
18:20 to 19:00 you get it quite wrong and I don't know why Bruce didn't correct you.
Bitcoins are created at a rate of 50 every 10 minutes no matter how many people are mining. The "difficulty" of the mining problem is adjusted to make sure that's the case. And so the supply and demand thing doesn't happen - the supply is constant (except that the rate halves every 4 years) regardless of the demand.
WhiteHenny 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 7 months ago
Right, June has ended.
Its 3 July now. The mtgox usd value per bitcoin is now 15.
This is not even close to the 100 dollars predicted by our dear beloved Bruce.
:(
GrouverTF2 7 months ago
Will bitcoin's fate be the same as the liberty dollar?
ohiovr 7 months ago
@ohiovr No, they aren't being openly subversive. There are other 'alternative' currencies out there that aren't being vilified, because they have a different spin. See berkshares.
StanwoodDesign 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hello bitcoin fans I just want to do my part to help promote bitcoins so I will be selling American Silver Eagles for bitcoins. I also have half dollars, war nickles, dimes, and quarters. Just visit my channel and lets make a deal. TIA
bitcoin1 7 months ago
so anyway
Motherlandpluto 8 months ago
The mining and dividing sound like bad ideas.
KidEatingClown 8 months ago
LET THE ANARCHY BEGIN!
LieWizard 8 months ago 11
Bitcoin crashed yesterday, what a load of bull stef, glad i didnt take the advice ur giving here
BlindPlague 8 months ago
Bitcoins = Online Federal Reserve rehash. In other words, a digital looting of the public.
SpaceIVIonkey 8 months ago
@SpaceIVIonkey You mean that the ones that have made the btc website are working for the working?
Motherlandpluto 8 months ago
@SpaceIVIonkey
except for the fact that no one is forced to use bitcoins
Equity213 8 months ago
Also, what happens to the currency you pay in the "investment phase"? Who gets the cash?
fargley001 8 months ago
Interesting idea, but I have a concern.
So this is like an electronic SSN, or digital ID of sorts? Say government would decide to adopt this currency in the future and require you to pay taxes in bitcoins... Technical abilities granted to the government via "patriot act" and "net neutrality" could be used to block someone from using their bitcoins - right? They would be able easily manipulate those using bitcoins.
fargley001 8 months ago
I'll be paid in gold thank you. Watch the tax man come after you in bitcoins
PlatinumGordon 8 months ago
This sounds like the worm farms in the 1970's. I think this is a scam. Money should not be use to make money. It should be used as a means to exchange goods and services.
There are going to be some big loosers at the end of this. If this really takes off, you watch the banksters come after you. Good luck. I would be buying gold and silver if you don't like gambling.
PlatinumGordon 8 months ago
what about how TRACKABLE this is... there is no cash market because it's all electronically tracked... i.e. when the government wants to ask why you have so much cash... it's not like we've gotten rid of taxes first.
Seems very controllable by a government.
If they just have a node on the network, the y'll have everyones finances right... what money/bitcoin they have, etc?
pyrrho314 8 months ago
@pyrrho314 No, not at all. Yes, if the govt ran a bitcoin client, they would have the ledger that knows which hashes have how many bitcoins (just like anyone who runs a client), but 1) they wouldn't know which hash corresponds to which person unless that person published their hash, which most people have a public hash for transfers and a private hash to store their bitcoins, and 2) they couldn't block transfers or take from anyone unless that person voluntarily uses their client to send them
troyerrdt 8 months ago
@troyerrdt of course, thanks I stand corrected, a public private key anonymity, I should have realized that actually from what I read about them recently.
pyrrho314 8 months ago
just what the nwo wants
bluefly28 8 months ago
fuck electronic currency I aint no space age slave
bluefly28 8 months ago
And maybe you could add a "weight" to the game's traditional currency (people can only carry around so much weight) while keeping the new currency weightless to simulate the ease with which people can trade Bitcoins digitally to see if that would actually drive people to adopt this new resource as a currency in the game.
WelcometotheUnknown 8 months ago
Some of these currency ideas should be tested out in MMORPGs. You could have the currency centralized for the game's sake and it wouldn't matter. What would be important is that you don't have the game host offer anyone any goods/services for the new currency. In this way the currency wouldn't have any guaranteed value. Perhaps you could also tax the game's traditional currency to see if this would drive users to make the switch to the new currency.
WelcometotheUnknown 8 months ago
@WelcometotheUnknown ?: this has been my goal for decades, social experiment MMORPGs.
pyrrho314 8 months ago
@pyrrho314 Yeah I'm not sure why there aren't more MMORPGs being used for this purpose. It seems like the perfect way to perform a big social experiment and could be done for a very low cost. Just create a scare supply of something in a game that can be easily divided up and carried around (good for currency) and see if people will begin to use it for currency or if the value of it will crash, as I think Bitcoin will crash eventually.
WelcometotheUnknown 8 months ago
@Shezmu Ignore what I said about wealth distribution problems. I think the Bitcoins are going to collapse after new people stop joining it. It seems like most people buying Bitcoins are buying them in the hope that they can later sell them again for a higher price. They're not using Bitcoins enough to buy actual goods. With inflating US dollars I can work at my job and use the money to buy goods from a number of stores, but not with Bitcoin. When Bitcoin inflates, everyone will try to sell.
WelcometotheUnknown 8 months ago
sounds like bitcoin hacked 2500 stolen? sell sell sell
YVRSURF 8 months ago
I think if Bitcoin gets too popular then the government is certainly going to try to tax Bitcoin or else shut it down... But if there's no way for it to succeed in taxing Bitcoin and there's no way it can shut Bitcoin down either due to how Bitcoin is so decentralized, then what's going to happen? Could this be the way to anarchy? Despite the wealth distribution problems I'd be worried about for people who get in early vs late, if its not taxable or shut-down-able then it could become huge.
WelcometotheUnknown 8 months ago
@WelcometotheUnknown - I can't let this go, what wealth distribution problems? People who got rich off of bitcoin if they really rich are rich because they got in when everyone thought bitcoin wasn't going to catch any flame (still might not). Also, I don't see how any general wealth distribution solutions assuming solutions are actually needed could not be applied to bitcoin.
Shezmu 8 months ago
Brilliant as always Stef
krychamin 8 months ago
What if your harddrive crashes? Do you lose your bitcoins? Where are they stored?
trick0171 8 months ago
there are couple of things that make me very sceptical about bitcoin, first as an anarchist i find it very disturbing that in current stage of bitcoin, people who have money(investors, entrepreneurs) are tripling their money, but meh, just thats me and what i think about that is irrelevant.
now what worries me more is internet, since we do not control the internet access the bitcoin can be "shut down" pretty easily .
Realjhad 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BC is BS. Didn't it lose 35% of value a few days ago? I thought that only happened in manipulated markets...oh. BC is good for guys with server farms but as for the rest of us we can whistle in the wind. By the way last I heard the creators had been invited to Langley for a little chat....
westwaytv 8 months ago
how bout this guys. I am incredibly computer, economics, and legel savvy and I am not willing to say I fully understand bitcoin...but it makes sense so far. I'll be doing some more research.... I doubt I'll ever buy any in the near future( or mine them) but just to remind everyone... land will always be the ultimate investment and creator of wealth.
asc9nd 8 months ago
Paypal sucks
ostralopithicus 8 months ago
My question to the Bitcoin aficionados, hypothetically, if noone is selling bitcoins, is it possible to still buy bitcoins? Do they wait in some kind of middle world, a purgatory if you may. Also the first person who bought Bitcoins, where did they come from? It connects to my first question.
motioneccentrica 8 months ago
@akaneil
Someone stole his bitcoins, someone had to know he had that much in it, stealing aint new, quite an old concept.
motioneccentrica 8 months ago
Dude lost all his cred when he said A) the creator of bit coins is anonymous and not important...O-K. When have you ever heard about someone who invents something revolutionary and doesn't want to take credit for it? Sounds pretty shady to me. B) he says "mining" is over! NOW you should just buy bit coins with CASH! Ahahahaha! Come on make me rich now that I have a whole bunch for these 1's and O's that I got for almost nothing. Ahahahahahah! Do you want my credit card or can I write a check? ha
GeneralKashenblade 8 months ago
@GeneralKashenblade - I see why the first point would cause alarm in the general sense, but in the case of currency and in light of recent events, you really can't blame a guy/gal who created a currency that could threaten a government currency (i.e. any non-government controlled currency) for wanting to maintain his/her anonymity. As for the second point, the guy in the video isn't getting any money that isn't donated to him and even if he was, the program is open source.
Shezmu 8 months ago
@Shezmu - Also, sorry for being slightly agitated, it's just that the wealth distribution topic annoys me.
Shezmu 8 months ago
@GeneralKashenblade : lol... phase two of the pyramid scheme.
though to be fair I find the idea very interesting.
pyrrho314 8 months ago
Is that guy online gaming while being interviewed?
WideWorldOfWisdom 8 months ago
Hey Steph: Care to do a video "Pump and dump" investment strategies, and how your "Universally Preferable Behaviours" apply to those who are their promoters? I'd find that interesting as would many of your viewers I'm sure...
offramp100 8 months ago
Sounds to good to be true.
maganz 8 months ago
never use paypal?
joshv89 8 months ago
Fundamental truth about Bitcoin... global population... internet penetration 31% in the middle east, 11% in africa, 23% in asia and finally 36% in central america. So essentially, if you have brown or black skin and don't speak english you are completely out of the bitcoin system. "Hey here's a new money system! Same as the old money system"... keeping the poor out of the system. There are 6.9 Billion people on earth, 2 Billion have network access... Bitcoin is worse than bad.. it's terrible.
ShinEmperor 8 months ago
@ShinEmperor The current money system does not keep anyone out. In fact the reason it sucks so bad is because everyone is practically forced to use it, and the west can therefore manipulate it so value is transferred from poor currencies to rich ones. Bitcoin does not hurt anyone if they can choose to use something else. Do you want to keep the entire world at the same shitty level and have no progress? Better systems for some, does not mean worse systems for the rest.
mortalisk 8 months ago
@ShinEmperor - It sounds like you have the assumption that anything that doesn't benefit everyone rich and poor equally at the start is bad and evil. I'm pretty positive that this is a performitive contradiction since you used a computer to type that post and computers sure as hell didn't start off as something that the everyday joe could use in their own home.
Shezmu 8 months ago
@Shezmu Actually, I'm pointing out that it is just more of the same if people are left out of the system. So because I have it better than others, I shouldn't care about the welfare of others? How does that even make sense? I'm questioning the real "strength" of Bitcoin. It's a valid point too. How I stand personally makes zero difference. Also, if I could, I would make certain that every person on the planet owned a pc. But since I don't it concerns me when we try to adopt digital systems...
ShinEmperor 8 months ago
@ShinEmperor - My problem wasn't your concern for the economic status of others, but the seeming implication that other people are morally obligated to do so in the invention of new software.
Shezmu 7 months ago
FUCK BITCOIN
watch?v=hp0igz0PuOA
jackp6 8 months ago
Bitcoin is not secure enough in transactions because there's no way I see it blacklisting suspected interceptor sites seeking traffic analysis.
Bitcoin is not secure enough physically: paper doesn't stop working when the power goes not, nor does gold + silver
Bitcoin is being traded so rapidly for paper that it can be destabilized in exchange. Trading it only for tangibles may solve that problem
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
Bitcoin is a scam, and the U.S. government won't give it any legal status. Enjoy your Monopoly money, you'll be left holding the bag soon enough, "dummies". LOL!
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 you know what's sad, I bet the intrinsic value of a $1 monopoly money is higher than a $1 USD. I guess we'd have to ask Parker Brothers to know the real cost of that piece of the game & the real profit per box sold, over time.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 lmao, please explain the difference between U.S. dollars and Bitcoins...
chris3443 8 months ago
@chris3443 (1) You idiots are being scammed to use your own computer power & electricity to hack hashes for Russian hackers, (2) the Bitcoin scam is essentially the gold standard using P2P and encryption, (3) bitcoin holders have no legal recourse in the courts, (4) the money supply of the dollar can be manipulated to help deal with inflation, deflation and unemployment. Bitcoins are even worse than gold since you can't use bitcoins the way gold can be used. How stupid are you people?
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 1)You idiots are being scammed to use banks and security gaurds to stop high class Russian bank robbers with automatic armor piercing weapons. 2) Okay so Bitcoin is like the gold standard.....so what? 3)That's not true. Bitcoin is a form of property and if someone steals it is is theft. WTF are you talking about no legal recourse? 4)Well who's fault is that sir? Soon everything will be tied to computers Mr. openuniverse.
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@DaveElectric You are an uneducated idiot. You are also an embarrassment to Satan! Satan would like you to take down the pentagram off of your YouTube channel, he does not want to be associated with someone as STUPID as you are. Take care.
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 Well it looks like I win this discussion. The first person to pull an ad hominem loses.
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@DaveElectric Satan says he's disappointed in you, girl. REAL disappointed.
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 Troll Alert. Get the ban paddle ready.
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@DaveElectric Grow up, stupid. Get the lobotomy ready, in your case. Fool! LOL!
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
@openuniverse2003 If it's so stupid then just stay away from it.
andrewh817 8 months ago
@andrewh817 I will. But close enough to catch you losing your shirt in this latest fad/scam, so that I can laugh at you while you cry cry cry back to mommy!
openuniverse2003 8 months ago
I just bitcoined ya!
alternativeangle 8 months ago
TANGENT MUCH??? This guy just talksandtalksandtalksandtalks while poor Stefan stares at the floor.
SanieClaws 8 months ago
I thought Stef was interviewing KD Lang for a sec!
ashane77 8 months ago 10
That pseudonym sounds japanese, and familiar... I would imagine it's an anime character (?)
josso1 8 months ago
!!!victory!!!!!
Gandalf: "A hope is candled."
qedisk 8 months ago
This video already received 2.51 Bitcoins in donations which are worth just under $50. Now that's what I call monetizing the web ;D
hazeee123 8 months ago
I did not quiet get the procedure of buying bitcoins without using paypal. It also at least at present seems not to be the ideal currency for borrowing. The real rate of interest you pay is gigantic.
modelmark 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@modelmark "not to be the ideal currency for borrowing"
Borrowing itself is not ideal. If you really badly need to, you need to really understand what you will gain in the future from it. Much borrowing activity is vengeful usury designed to take profits. I want no part of that.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@modelmark The high interest would make sense if the currency is appreciating, since anyone giving you money would have to be making more by giving the money to you than by just sitting on it. If it is appreciating by 200% per year right now on average (number made up), the interest would have to be higher unless the lender is feeling charitable.
chris3443 8 months ago
@chris3443 My point is that no one would borrow bitcoins, not even for 0% interest, because they would have to return far more valuable bitcoins in the future. The reason why borrowing dollars/euros/yen is so popular is because you pay worthless ones back in the future. That is also why not many save them.
It is impossible to have this 200% sustained, since productivity is not increasing that much. So the rise in rate is because of new dollars and euros flowing in, like with a Ponzi scheme
modelmark 8 months ago
@modelmark - How is bitcoin any different than gold in this context? Gold definitely had productity spikes in the past and it turned out well. I also doubt that banks had any trouble lending out when the dollar was backed by gold.
Shezmu 8 months ago
@Shezmu every year about 3% more gold is mined, so that is pretty stable. But in the beginning you had production spikes, this caused prices to go up. Huge deflation you never had with gold. You can just ask yourself the question:would I borrow a bitcoin, spend it in the hope of buying it back later when it costs me 1000% more. I think you would not.
The main problem for bitcoin is that it will never be allowed to be accepted by bigger shops. They wil lbe agressed against.The coupons trick=Ponzi
modelmark 8 months ago
It's Silk Road, the special site for buying illegal drugs.
dyne313 8 months ago
Bitcoin is horrible invention. It shall be added to a list of banned substances,because it is hugely addictive. Since I first heard about bitcoins half a year ago, I have even stopped playing computer games. All I do is build and maintain those damn mining machines. These machines have taken over my life! My house feels, smells and sounds as a datacenter, my garage can be used for shooting Matrix4 (the scenes with really bad cable management in their ships and lots of blinking light). Beware!!!
zdt7ihv 8 months ago 5
@zdt7ihv I lol'd :) I have the same problem, just started bought a sapphire 5830. epic game card but i dont use it for the games xD If i start a game i almost inmediatly close it to continue mining O.o
Bitcoins are great. If it fails.. a new better one will follow.
@RayWilliamJohnston
Amen.
@stefbot Glad you accept bitcoin donations! once this message is post you will have received mine :)
Greetings from Europe.
MrOoNoodles 8 months ago
Some dude allready got hacked and lost shitload of BT and no way of getting it back.
Remember free market = free rampage
shogu666 8 months ago
@shogu666 Some dude already got burglarized and lost a shitload of money and no way of getting it back.
What's your point?
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@DaveElectric actually house insurance will cover burglaries in dollar amounts, not bitcoins losses.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@DaveElectric Oh and there can't be bitcoin insurance as well?
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@shogu666 well thats his own fault... better security.
MrOoNoodles 8 months ago
... But its backed by nothing physical and real. Gold and silver can be divided up in the same way as bitcoin if they were stored in a 100% reserve bank. I'll hang on to my physical for when that happens. I at least can't afford to trust concepts to hold my wealth, but hey, I'll watch where this goes with a little interest.
corruptiblelogistics 8 months ago 2
The only - but unfortunately BIG - drawback of bitcoins is that they are not backed up by any extern good. They get their value solely through trust, people wanting to have bit coins just because they lik'em, and to a lesser extent, lack of alternatives. Neither of those is a basis for a stable currency.
Fluctuations will lead to less trust, the newness factor will decrease and alternatives will emerge (and you don't have to use e-currency either way as opposed to non-virtual currency).
benjayk 8 months ago 2
@benjayk The thing is, you don't know that it's a "newness" factor that's causing its popularity. You should actually do some type of survey if you want the truth and get tired of making assertions that aren't backed by evidence... From what I've read it seems that it's popular because it's a decentralized money system and the transaction costs are basically ZERO! I can't think of a better idea for a currency not backed up by external goods than one using the internet.
andrewh817 8 months ago
@andrewh817 I didn't mean to imply it's only the newness factor that causing it's popularity. But I do think people are blinded by precisely the things you describe (decentralized money system and no transaction costs). This is not sufficient for a stable currency. I doubt the market can determine a stable (or rising) value just through trust in the currency.
I'm not certain at all that bitcoins will utterly fail. I just think it is likely that they will lose much value in the long run.
benjayk 8 months ago
Lulzsec guys dumped over 17000 in stolen Bticoins onto the market the other day. I wonder where they got them?
I hope TradeHill wasn't hacked...
johnycannuk 8 months ago
@RayWilliamJohnston So a currency that relies on electricity, the internet and computers is superior to gold because Alex Jones says it isn't? Great arguement there.
Hashishin13 8 months ago
@RayWilliamJohnston
@YTKilledRawdog LMFAO, what do you think of this epic comment Ray made? I think he has things a little bassackwards. Any day now, Max Keiser will be on Alex Jones show stirring up a Bitcoin google bomb. Any day now...
"love to see the most brilliant minds come together with the most insane, paranoid ones. Negative comments about bitcoins are all coming from Alex Jones NWO morons who just want to appear skeptical and intelligent. They fear what they don't understand."
facepalmsociety4 8 months ago
"your computer makes money, out of thin air" - Bruce Wagner @ 16:25
LMFAO, That is all that can be said about that statement. Good luck the the psyop bitcoin fanboys.
facepalmsociety4 8 months ago
i feel dissapointed by this interview Stefan, here are my random thoughts
1) existence of speculators doesn't necessarily indicate that commodity is promising, check tulipanomania
2) why bitcoin value would get much higher, since worth of computational power invested in bc is very low (not counting wasted power)?
saldownik 8 months ago
This guy sounds like an Amway salesman. I wonder if CIA has a quamtum V-wave to suck all the real wealth before they crash it with a terorest attack.
tigerbutter360 8 months ago
@tigerbutter360 a quantum computer with only n qubits can't solve problems bigger than n-size.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
Bitcoins are basically like a penny stock to me. I dont own any yet but I wouldnt mind buying a little bit, just to speculate on.
Equity213 8 months ago
Stefan the lotery number he is talking about is it decided by a random number generator because thats hard to imagine, and if there is a algorithm behind the lottery number then it can get abused.
So is it truely random?
colloredbrothers 8 months ago
Maybe we should have asked Bruce roughly how many bitcoins he has right now?
davidh00 8 months ago
This guy reminds me of the optimistic sales guy that promises the world on a promise... or whatever the expression is. I am a little disappoint that Stef did not calm his nerves with real critical thinking questions. Maybe Stef has fallen into the fanaticism of it all.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r Stef accepts donations via bitcoin. In this case, he may be choosing not to shit where he eats.
thedamnedapostle 8 months ago
lol @ the Alex Jones crowd reflexively attacking bitcoin. Im glad im not as confused and angry as ya'll.
Bitcoin is voluntary, fiat is not. Big difference.
Equity213 8 months ago
Stef, I was a little disappointed because I thought you would have addressed the larger agorist-related economic themes around bitcoin, such as potential for widespread tax-free exchange, impact on nation-State tax policy, irrelevancy of international capital controls, and the de-politicization of currency.
matonis 8 months ago
@matonis Have you seen the comments? 80% of the people here don't know enough about bitcoin to make an informed opinion.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago 10
Bitcoin is very volatile. This make it difficult to use it as a currency at the moment. Do you think can become more stable in the future?
shaurz 8 months ago
Maybe it’s just me, but the first thing that popped into my head listening to this, ’one world currency’.
CalicoRegent 8 months ago
@CalicoRegent As long as noone could centrally manage it, it would not be so dangerous. But I think it is unlikely that bitcoin would ever become the only "barter enhancer" out there.
mortalisk 8 months ago
Any intelligent individuals that choose to go to libertariannews see ' How To Use Bitcoin The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man " ,Please read the comments by Mike Montagne a mathematician who is the author of mathematically perfected economy SOLUTION .After one reads mikes comments one will only conclude with logic alone bitcoin is NO SOLUTION
Bitcoins CAN NOT BE ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED maybe ,BUT Bitcoins CAN MOST CERTAINLY BE ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED ,guaranteed folks.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 Who would be interested in deflation? And why would it be bad?
mortalisk 8 months ago
@mortalisk Who would be interested in deflation? And why would it be bad?
--
I see you havent read the mikes comments libertariannews ,look around you now, we are NOT suffering from excess circulatory inflation ,we are suffering from massive circulatory deflation at a rate faster than any bail out or national debt can arrest . And you ask WHY deflation is bad ? price inflation & circulatory inflation have primarily 2 very different causes & until people see the diff they will be forever lost.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 I didn't really understand it. So, if I have a certain amount of money, why would it be bad for me if prices were falling? And would it be bad for anyone else? If you mean that my bank will go bankrupt and a lot of businesses would too, then I would think that was a good thing, because I am taking a risk by having it in my bank, which is why my savings are in gold and silver(and some amount in bitcoins now). Taking risks need to be risky for the one taking it.
mortalisk 8 months ago
@mortalisk why would it be bad for me if prices were falling
-
One has to look at CIRCULATORY inflation & PRICE inflation first. Your circulation or national wealth is being stoled or depleted at a greater rate than any bailout or national debt injection sum .You have no real circulatory inflation, Banks can never print enough because banks launder it faster by the peoples loan contracts & payments. Price inflation is caused by charged interest local banks charge, interest that never created.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
WoW people are so gulable and will believe any kind of bullshit the money changers throw to them
possetraxxx 8 months ago 3
yawn
MrHeiwa07 8 months ago
end the fed. use bitcoin
godseyeview 8 months ago
@godseyeview end the fed - use silver + gold.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
Plenty of people are buying items and services with bitcoins. I see most detractors as simply not being bitcoin users... in which point their opinion really doesn't matter.
I've seen only one person defend the USD in this whole debate and their argument was that the USD was backed by the military industrial complex and that if you don't use the dollar we'll attack you...
Well, that's not exactly the fundamental currency is backed by something of value idea I was taught in elementary school.
optimus8288 8 months ago
I think it's very important when talking about Bitcoin to differentiate between a good potential money you yourself would you and an investment. Apparently, it has been an amazing investment so far. I do have two coffin-sealing problems with Bitcoins namely that they do not have intrinsic value and have not emerged with a pre-existent barter price. Second, the US government might try to shut the it all down. Maybe that won't work though due to its decentralization.
Fruerik 8 months ago
@Fruerik "namely that they do not have intrinsic value"
Nothing has intrinsic value (including gold). Value is subjective, and imputed to goods according to their expected ability to satisfy wants. Facilitating indirect exchange, as well as retaining a relatively stable exchange price, are two characteristics of successful money that are highly serviceable with regard to the satisfaction of many people's wants.
"and have not emerged with a pre-existent barter price."
?
bitbutter 8 months ago
Exactly what's on my mind. Thanks!
lennonvideo 8 months ago
I think its a great idea and invention, but its not without it drawbacks. The bitcoin can be manipulated price wise - by simple hoarding. Not sure on the equations of how exactly the price of a bitcoin is calculated, but from this, it seems if some holders simply trade with each other in high volumes at ever increasing price, this will inevitably increase the price. Anyone ?
JizzonTheDark 8 months ago
Stef - after perusing the comments here, you may want to consider doing a video on the concept of money. People are understandably wired into a certain doctrine of thought. After all, we ARE 4th generation debt slaves...
BookofNick 8 months ago 2
I think i understand economics and this aspect of bitcoin fairly well. Although beyond mp3's (downloading, listening to music) and surfing the web and facebook, im completely lost. Because i (think) i understand the economic potential. i want to get into this. otherwise, i have no idea what to do beyond downloading the client. can anyone lend a hand?
scalp340 8 months ago
@scalp340 you're better off holding silver coins - bitcoins don't work without the power on & don't work with a non-secure concentrated internet which we do all have - meaning you can be traced, attacked, regulated, hacked+robbed. It's not worth the danger or btc mining cost in time+electricity
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
Im sorry but this guy sounds a little too....pump and dump to me. I think bitcoin is GREAT but $30 a pop is WAYYYYYY OVERSOLD.... WAY OVERSOLD. I forsee various other e-coins like bitcoin, and an eventual market stabilization at around $0.75 at BEST for all e-coins....$10,000 a bitcoin my anus.....
jusblaze99 8 months ago
It sounded like a tyrannosaurus was growling whenever he moved his chair :P
Kawlinz 8 months ago
My issue with bitcoins is that the founder owns 25% of the bitcoins out there... he controls the market... There is no way I would spend a penny on a bitcoin... it has no value.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r No he doesn't.
If you got that info from H1INC or stellaconcepts they can't seem to read the difference between 150,000 and 1,500,000.
priapus512 8 months ago
@l1xx3r Wrong.
a) There is no 'founder', it's open source code developed by a group of volunteers on their spare time.
b) Nobody knows anything about the closest thing Bitcoin has to a founder, Satoshi Nakamoto, who posted the original source code.
c) The person who created the deepbit mining pool is the one who is suspected to have made the most amount of money off of bitcoins, at about 1% of the total supply of bitcoins.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg So what happens if your computer crashes and you dont have your wallet backed up in any way... are you screwed? This is not a currency IMHO. Its an interesting trade item, but one with 0 intrinsic value. Yes I might not fully understand this bitcoin thing, but honestly I don't think it will last long enough. It has too much of a fanatical following to be accepted by anything but. I understand why Stef likes it, because its a free market thing, but I don't see it lasting long term.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r "This is not a currency IMHO. Its an interesting trade item, but one with 0 intrinsic value"
Not only do you not understand bitcoin, you also don't understand what value is (which is tripping you up).
Nothing has intrinsic value (gold included), value is not embodied in goods. Value is subjective, it derives from the expected serviceability of a good in satisfying wants.
bitbutter 8 months ago
@bitbutter I think I understand better then you do. Its funny, cause most fanatics always say things like "You just don't understand" and stupid things like that... why they ignore your valid questions/comments (see original) and focus on how you don't understand. Thing I understand is that Bitcoin people are 1) Stupid for thinking this is a valid currency, 2) Stupid for not thinking how much fraud potential there is through this, 3) Bitcoins will never ever account for even 1% of transactions.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r q)Bitcoin is not a valid currency because people like you are influencing the subjective opinions and valueations of the Bitcoin. If everyone had a positive evaluation of the bitcoin then it would be a valid currecny. Your just creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. 2)Look dude, no currency doesn't have fraud potential. 3)Well who's fault is that sir? Keep up with the rhtetoic and you will be right.
All your arguements are nothing but a bunch of self-fulfilling prophecies.
DaveElectric 8 months ago
@l1xx3r I notice that you didn't address my correction re. the nature of value. That's a shame. If you believe that I'm mistaken, feel free to explain why my explanation is faulty. If it's not, then bitcoin is as valid a currency as gold or any other money, and your claim is false.
bitbutter 8 months ago
@bitbutter Oh sorry I thought you were kidding that bitcoins has value like gold and silver and paper money backed by military and millions of people using it... I wonder how pretty a bitcoin watch would look... hey look I already have one... but its in my FUCKING imagination. Stupid retards. Yes its as valid as gold and silver as a currency, but so was seashells and feathers at some point, but then we grew up and understood money. Maybe you need to catch up.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r
I1xx3r: "Thing I understand is that Bitcoin people are 1) Stupid for thinking this is a valid currency"
I1xx3r: "Yes its as valid as gold and silver as a currency,"
Are you retracting your first assertion?
bitbutter 8 months ago
@bitbutter LOL aren't you special, you can read and look back... but yet you still can't argue my points. In the first point I meant valid as in viable. Sorry... Slipped... it happens when I am talking to retards that just point out little mistakes instead of actually coming up with real arguments.
l1xx3r 8 months ago
@l1xx3r "but yet you still can't argue my points"
So far I've only seen unsupported assertions from you. Attempting to refute these would be redundant. If you believe you have a substantial complaint against the viability of bitcoin I'm all ears (disclaimer: I'm not certain of it's long-term prospects for survival, but the cast majority of the criticism I read betrays a complete failure to understand what bitcoin is, what money is, or both)
bitbutter 8 months ago
I think the downfall of bitcoin is right now its hard to loan at infinite interest. In other words it has no credit.
sundancekid122 8 months ago
CIA talks, massive mainstream coverage, "legislation attacking" bitcoins because of nefarious activities, credits issued out of nowhere in a digital form being used a currency?
Does this not ring anyone bells?
My money is on this being a BANKSTER creation...
think long and hard...
overlogg 8 months ago
@overlogg Finally, somebody who is thinking this through, completely.
stripe64 8 months ago
@overlogg A bankster creation? Bitcoin eliminates the need for banks altogether! There would be no banks if people adopted bitcoin.
93msinclair 8 months ago
@93msinclair
lol..I said think LONG & HARD...
Yes of course...and that is why your so happy about it right?
Last I heard bitcoin was teaming up to comply so it could be taken seriously by people by complying with governments for oversight on money laundering ect...keep digging...
anonymous my ass...
There is much more than meets the eye here....
overlogg 8 months ago
@overlogg
Its pretty clear to who anyone who cares to look that it is not a 'bankster creation'. And so what if it was? So what if it was? Think long and hard....
Equity213 8 months ago
@Equity213
Its "CLEAR"?
how clear is it?
Not clear at all...the developer is anonymous...they are now in talks with the CIA...that is always encouraging since they are pretty much responsible for all drugs, terrorism and other bullshit being pressed on humans today...
Why can't people believe that something that seems so good on its surface...might not be?
They are in talks now supposedly to have oversight for money laundering ect...
same old...same old...
overlogg 8 months ago
@overlogg "Not clear at all...the developer is anonymous."
There is no 'the developer'. There's a development lead. Please reflect on the code being open source and what this means for the likelihood of this being a conspiracy tool.
bitbutter 8 months ago
@bitbutter
Open source means the code can be changed, I am certain this is NOT open source.
Lots of disinfo flying...watch as many vids & read up as much as you can...this is not what you think it is.
Far from anonymous & dangerously close to just being another purely fiat dream.
My info points to it being a great concept..muddied and shaded with banksters trial runs.
Soon they will be complying with the "FEDS" so there will be no escaping their clutches.
hardly moving towards progress
overlogg 8 months ago
@overlogg "Open source means the code can be changed"
No. The source code of any project can be changed. 'Open source' has a specific meaning. Google 'Open_Source_Definition' to inform yourself.
Anyone can submit changes to bitcoin which may or may not incorporated into the main branch. The repository is here: github [dot] com [slash] bitcoin [slash] bitcoin.
If you're concerned about disinformation I suggest you refrain from making assertions on subjects you don't understand.
bitbutter 8 months ago
@bitbutter
I have said enough on this...If you can't see what is going on right in front of you, who am I to bother your comfort in something so scandalous...
I have never seen so many misinformed cheerleaders rooting for their own enslavement...
overlogg 8 months ago
@overlogg Do you concede that bitcoin is in fact an open source project?
bitbutter 8 months ago
What would Scrooge McDuck look like if all his wealth were held in Bitcoins?
qtutoringhelps 8 months ago
@qtutoringhelps He'd dive into his vault of hard drives.
MarkOates2 8 months ago
"mona lisa of technology."? pligganeez! bitchcoin is more appropriate.
lucifuehrer 8 months ago
I sincerely hope Bitcoin succeeds, but I'm still not sold on it. I think it is defeatable by TPTB, and most people will lose money on it. But, if it lasts until it goes asymptotic at 15 million or so, perhaps it will be viable, as long as we the people develop independent interwebs which can bypass the gov't net kill switches and WIFI jamming. However, I completely agree with Mr Wagner on at least one point; protect yourself from PayPal. Only connect a bank account to Paypal which you keep empty
MrDorkusMaximus 8 months ago
bitcoins are dependent on electricity. would i be able to buy anything with my bitcoins if the electrical grid is wiped out or all the servers get fried? if there is a blackout i'll still be able to trade my silver coin for some food. it doesn't seem logical to invest with bitcoins so i'm out. sounds too pyramidal anyway, imo.
lucifuehrer 8 months ago 2
bitcoin is a scam, its already been hacked, completely non anonymous and will be cracked down on. Bitcoins are vulnerable to emp and anyone can easily do a one off currency. I would do it just to bust the bubble but I don't want any of the huge shitstorm that is about to descend on anyone using these.
twistedbydsign99 8 months ago
They claim its completely unhackable "by today's KNOWN technology". Any of these guys ever heard of the US military/intelligence? They specialize in UNKOWN TECHNOLOGIES. Go take a look at their billion dollar black bird and then tell me bitcoin is unhackable.
Hashishin13 8 months ago
@Hashishin13 Modern credit card companies use the same kinds of encryption techniques that Bitcoin uses. Quantum computers can theoretically break the encryption using brute force techniques in a reasonable time frame (a reasonable time frame being if they start now they might be finished some time in your life time, or quite possibly less); no other modern technology could brute-force crack modern encryption techniques in a hundred years.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg if you even have half an idea how much the cost is per qubit you just shove the problem-size above that qubit size then you can't crack it. Quantum computers can't entangle qubits for half the problem-size then do another chunk. It's all-or-nothing. They don't have the resources to do 20K qubits for example Probably not even 2K qubits.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@Hashishin13 Quantum computers will be able to crack the encryption.
shaurz 8 months ago
@shaurz if you even have half an idea how much the cost is per qubit you just shove the problem-size above that qubit size then you can't crack it. Quantum computers can't entangle qubits for half the problem-size then do another chunk. It's all-or-nothing. They don't have the resources to do 20K qubits for example Probably not even 2K qubits. This requires near perfect-zero temperatures & fractions of a second for the entire problem to contain the entangled qubits.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago