thanks for reminding me of accepting uncertainty. I all too often find it fairly demotivating when encountering some words and phrases that no matter how many times i listen i just can't understand.
Unsere Ungarische Dolmetscherin Lomb Kato hat in diese weise mehrere Sprachen gelernt nur gelesen viel! Sie sprechen Ungarisch noch nicht deswegen frage ich sie auf Deutsch! Wie lange brauchten Sie eine Sprache zu erlernen!???1 ,2 oder 3 Jahre!Danke
Unsere Ungarische Dolmetscherin Lomb Kato hat in diese weise mehrere Sprachen gelernt nur gelesen viel! Sie sprechen Ungarisch noch nicht deswegen frage ich sie auf eutsch! Wie lange brauchten Sie eine Sprache zu erlernen!???1 ,2 oder 3 Jahre!Danke
Very interesting points. I'm much more of a 'perfectionist' when it comes to pronunciation than you are, and by that I mean I know perfection is impossible to attain, in that I will never have an 'authentic local accent' in English; I will never sound _exactly_ like a native. But I still _aim_ for perfection, and hope that by doing that, I will achieve excellence. The willingness to go along with uncertainty while on the way to knowledge is critical when it comes to language learning.
The willingness to accept uncertainty and the drive to understand (curiosity) do not cancel each other out either. The willingness to accept uncertainty means that you can live with the fact that you won't understand everything inmediately. You will understand, but bit by bit, and over time.
I agree that you do not have to get obsessed with grammar and rules, but listen to conversations and get into the language you are trying to learn
Anyhow grammar and rules are utterly necessary too, unless you want to, easily, understand a language but saying things like: "He don't" OR "I'm good, thanks"
I love learning languages and realising that I can communicate with others abroad, but also love keeping a proper grammar
I think people shy away from just listening to the language because they want to have something to show for their efforts right away. If they memorize phrases and a few words then they feel that they have learned something. By listening to the language you might not be able to say much for weeks or months, but processes are still happening in your brain and in reality this gets you closer to really knowing the language than flashcards and grammar books can.
I have no doubt that you like grammar etc. but the response to my video and my experience in hearing others talk about their language learning suggests that I am not unique. I even think I am in the majority. But all the more power to you. Do it they way you want. Most people confronted with grammar in school do not achieve very much. I am in Portugal now. English skills are far better than in Spain. It is not the teaching system. It is the undubbed TV programs and movies, and their attitude.
i think your way of learning language is unique and wouldnt work for everyone (as with every way to learn). it certainly wouldnt work for me, i do need to have all the grammar explained to me and when i tried to use lingq while at a beginner level i only got confused. i also wouldnt dive into a native book until id reached a decent level, since i dont like looking up lots of words and not understanding. yet, i think im ok at learning language, and people have said i was "talented" more than once
I received information about it through the post, but did not know about it. Before it arrived, Professor Arguelles had told me that he might be in London in October, so I thought he could be going to that. The Language Show invites people and language schools, etc, to attend seminars or book podium stands to talk about what they can offer to successful language learning, etc. I think it might be a case of having to book to go in advance, but I'm not sure.
Thanks for the video, Steve. What you say does make sense and I agree with pretty much everything you've had to report on language learning (on the other videos I've seen). Like Alexander Arguelles, you're a break from tradition, but a good one at that. Can I ask also if you're coming to the London Language Show this year?
Poesie ist für mich wichtig, weil sie real ist. Real people, echte Emotion Gefühl, dass niemand der Regel Gespräche über ... Menschen, die durch die gleichen Dinge, die ich ... und es ist wichtig für mich zu wissen, dass ... geistig und emotional. Es ist mir wichtig
You're the best Steve! You have a great witty way of describing the process of learning languages, based on your own authority as an expert language learner. And I totally agree with you about uncertainty.
i completely agree with u! and its not just u! and its funny that u post this topic as i have encountered it recently...i have taken that certain approach to language learning...i enjoy uncertainty and use it to improve, it just adds to the motivation! thanks for the input!
I have to agree, I picked up lots of Dutch because I was willing to listen to music and programs that I didn't fully understand (just what was very similar to English and German). Eventually the gist became more and more accurate until I could understand it. Along the way I look for things I can work on (phonemes/prosody) and I work on them. I approached german in a more structured way, but I integrated the same technique esp. after the basics
i do agree about that uncertainty. if u listen to something u already know very well over and over again you're starting to feel comfty and ur brain switches off. i keep doing the same thing as u do, listening to things that are at least one step ahead and it seems to work even though i'm able to grasp just some bits and pieces but it's usually the bits and pieces that my brain filters according to how relevant it is in my environment.
Hmm... I find that reviewing is the best thing you can do as a language learner. Always revisit old articles, and eventually the words you once found hard will become part of your everyday vocab. But don't sweat the obscure words/grammar. Skip anything that's especially hard to grasp. You'll probably encounter the same word in a few years when you're ready to absorb it. Review review review!
I love it when I go back to material that I was having trouble with a few months back and I understand all of it. It really shows you that even if you aren't consciously aware that you're progressing, you really are.
Great points,being exposed to the language and adjusting your ear to it is the first step. I lived in China for a couple years and the key to my picking up Mandarin was not focusing on grammar and pronunciation in the beginning until after I had developed an ear for Mandarin.
I learned spanish for 2 semesters in college from textbooks and forgot everything pretty quickly, after that I started listening to spanish songs and figuring out the meaning on my own...full blown spanish, not beginner material, I found it much more enjoyable and remembered what I was figuring out due to the context (the song). I feel context is extremely important to retain what you are learning.
AMEN!!!! Out of curiosity, How long should one spend on a lesson on LinQ? And, when you don't understand certain parts of something, say a podcast, how many times do you listen to it before you understand it? do you just leave it and go on with life after you've listented to it 3 or 4 times?
When I start on a language I may listen over 20 times, and still not fully understand. Right now, in Russian and Portuguese, I listen once of twice. You gradually listen less and less often. The point is that you do not have to understand everything before moving on. Things will click on when the brain decides to learn them.
This seems valid, but wouldn't the learning process be much slower? The reason I'm concerned about this is because when you attend a class, your grades are at stake at how quickly you grasp concepts.
It all depends on what you call learning. Most kids in school pass their language exams, and very few learn to speak, at least in Canada. They would learn to speak faster if they forgot trying to learn what their teachers expect them to learn.
Your approach seems to be working for me. French at school was all textbook-based and I loathed it - and, unsurprisingly, learnt very little even after a few years.
I've learnt a hell of lot more Japanese, including kanji, by teaching myself, over only about 9 months than I did French.
Kani aside I primarily just listen to a lot of Japanese material aimed at a Japanese audience. The vocab and grammar I pick up is almost all as a result of hearing it in context. I'm loving it. So far so good!
This is music to my ears. When I was in Czech language classes, the teacher told us not only to learn all the grammar, but to create spreadsheets full of rules and vocabulary. She called this "the system" - and whole approach was dull as hell. Sure, we learned lots of facts ABOUT the language, but never learned to use the language. I dropped out, and started to embrace uncertainty, and it worked like a charm.
thanks for reminding me of accepting uncertainty. I all too often find it fairly demotivating when encountering some words and phrases that no matter how many times i listen i just can't understand.
ronironiism 5 months ago
Unsere Ungarische Dolmetscherin Lomb Kato hat in diese weise mehrere Sprachen gelernt nur gelesen viel! Sie sprechen Ungarisch noch nicht deswegen frage ich sie auf Deutsch! Wie lange brauchten Sie eine Sprache zu erlernen!???1 ,2 oder 3 Jahre!Danke
TheMartikaa 8 months ago
Unsere Ungarische Dolmetscherin Lomb Kato hat in diese weise mehrere Sprachen gelernt nur gelesen viel! Sie sprechen Ungarisch noch nicht deswegen frage ich sie auf eutsch! Wie lange brauchten Sie eine Sprache zu erlernen!???1 ,2 oder 3 Jahre!Danke
TheMartikaa 8 months ago
Comment removed
Magisterlusitanus 10 months ago
Very interesting points. I'm much more of a 'perfectionist' when it comes to pronunciation than you are, and by that I mean I know perfection is impossible to attain, in that I will never have an 'authentic local accent' in English; I will never sound _exactly_ like a native. But I still _aim_ for perfection, and hope that by doing that, I will achieve excellence. The willingness to go along with uncertainty while on the way to knowledge is critical when it comes to language learning.
getreallanguage 1 year ago
The willingness to accept uncertainty and the drive to understand (curiosity) do not cancel each other out either. The willingness to accept uncertainty means that you can live with the fact that you won't understand everything inmediately. You will understand, but bit by bit, and over time.
getreallanguage 1 year ago
I agree that you do not have to get obsessed with grammar and rules, but listen to conversations and get into the language you are trying to learn
Anyhow grammar and rules are utterly necessary too, unless you want to, easily, understand a language but saying things like: "He don't" OR "I'm good, thanks"
I love learning languages and realising that I can communicate with others abroad, but also love keeping a proper grammar
guilleory 2 years ago
I think people shy away from just listening to the language because they want to have something to show for their efforts right away. If they memorize phrases and a few words then they feel that they have learned something. By listening to the language you might not be able to say much for weeks or months, but processes are still happening in your brain and in reality this gets you closer to really knowing the language than flashcards and grammar books can.
saxquiz 2 years ago
I have no doubt that you like grammar etc. but the response to my video and my experience in hearing others talk about their language learning suggests that I am not unique. I even think I am in the majority. But all the more power to you. Do it they way you want. Most people confronted with grammar in school do not achieve very much. I am in Portugal now. English skills are far better than in Spain. It is not the teaching system. It is the undubbed TV programs and movies, and their attitude.
lingosteve 2 years ago
Comment removed
Magisterlusitanus 10 months ago
Comment removed
Magisterlusitanus 10 months ago
i think your way of learning language is unique and wouldnt work for everyone (as with every way to learn). it certainly wouldnt work for me, i do need to have all the grammar explained to me and when i tried to use lingq while at a beginner level i only got confused. i also wouldnt dive into a native book until id reached a decent level, since i dont like looking up lots of words and not understanding. yet, i think im ok at learning language, and people have said i was "talented" more than once
xnightxamex 2 years ago
Hi Steve,
I received information about it through the post, but did not know about it. Before it arrived, Professor Arguelles had told me that he might be in London in October, so I thought he could be going to that. The Language Show invites people and language schools, etc, to attend seminars or book podium stands to talk about what they can offer to successful language learning, etc. I think it might be a case of having to book to go in advance, but I'm not sure.
tartansoxdundas 2 years ago
Thanks for the video, Steve. What you say does make sense and I agree with pretty much everything you've had to report on language learning (on the other videos I've seen). Like Alexander Arguelles, you're a break from tradition, but a good one at that. Can I ask also if you're coming to the London Language Show this year?
tartansoxdundas 2 years ago
I was unaware of it. I will be in London on those days and will make a point of going. What should I do there?
lingosteve 2 years ago
Poesie ist für mich wichtig, weil sie real ist. Real people, echte Emotion Gefühl, dass niemand der Regel Gespräche über ... Menschen, die durch die gleichen Dinge, die ich ... und es ist wichtig für mich zu wissen, dass ... geistig und emotional. Es ist mir wichtig
evelioto 2 years ago
Spacibo bolshoye, Steve. Vash soviet sami khoroshee. Prodolzhayte Vashuyu rabotu. Poka iz Pragi
rickjones@sezma,.cz
rickjones1953 2 years ago
Thanks Rick and one day I want to learn Czech.
lingosteve 2 years ago
@rickjones1953
Strangely enough, this post is completely as Russian.
garanss 1 year ago
You're the best Steve! You have a great witty way of describing the process of learning languages, based on your own authority as an expert language learner. And I totally agree with you about uncertainty.
obixlink 2 years ago
i completely agree with u! and its not just u! and its funny that u post this topic as i have encountered it recently...i have taken that certain approach to language learning...i enjoy uncertainty and use it to improve, it just adds to the motivation! thanks for the input!
langhopeful 2 years ago
I have to agree, I picked up lots of Dutch because I was willing to listen to music and programs that I didn't fully understand (just what was very similar to English and German). Eventually the gist became more and more accurate until I could understand it. Along the way I look for things I can work on (phonemes/prosody) and I work on them. I approached german in a more structured way, but I integrated the same technique esp. after the basics
jsanti1984 2 years ago
i do agree about that uncertainty. if u listen to something u already know very well over and over again you're starting to feel comfty and ur brain switches off. i keep doing the same thing as u do, listening to things that are at least one step ahead and it seems to work even though i'm able to grasp just some bits and pieces but it's usually the bits and pieces that my brain filters according to how relevant it is in my environment.
neclordnocturnal 2 years ago
Hmm... I find that reviewing is the best thing you can do as a language learner. Always revisit old articles, and eventually the words you once found hard will become part of your everyday vocab. But don't sweat the obscure words/grammar. Skip anything that's especially hard to grasp. You'll probably encounter the same word in a few years when you're ready to absorb it. Review review review!
shimmeringreflection 2 years ago
I love it when I go back to material that I was having trouble with a few months back and I understand all of it. It really shows you that even if you aren't consciously aware that you're progressing, you really are.
saxquiz 2 years ago
Your haircut looks fine. Hey, having hair to cut is a quality problem :)
saiyouken 2 years ago
Great points,being exposed to the language and adjusting your ear to it is the first step. I lived in China for a couple years and the key to my picking up Mandarin was not focusing on grammar and pronunciation in the beginning until after I had developed an ear for Mandarin.
tsneds01 2 years ago
I learned spanish for 2 semesters in college from textbooks and forgot everything pretty quickly, after that I started listening to spanish songs and figuring out the meaning on my own...full blown spanish, not beginner material, I found it much more enjoyable and remembered what I was figuring out due to the context (the song). I feel context is extremely important to retain what you are learning.
javawhz 2 years ago
That's excellent. You really just listened to the songs and picked it up? I'd love to hear some more about this.
lifekiwi 2 years ago
AMEN!!!! Out of curiosity, How long should one spend on a lesson on LinQ? And, when you don't understand certain parts of something, say a podcast, how many times do you listen to it before you understand it? do you just leave it and go on with life after you've listented to it 3 or 4 times?
791662 2 years ago
When I start on a language I may listen over 20 times, and still not fully understand. Right now, in Russian and Portuguese, I listen once of twice. You gradually listen less and less often. The point is that you do not have to understand everything before moving on. Things will click on when the brain decides to learn them.
lingosteve 2 years ago
This seems valid, but wouldn't the learning process be much slower? The reason I'm concerned about this is because when you attend a class, your grades are at stake at how quickly you grasp concepts.
AestheticNerd 2 years ago
It all depends on what you call learning. Most kids in school pass their language exams, and very few learn to speak, at least in Canada. They would learn to speak faster if they forgot trying to learn what their teachers expect them to learn.
lingosteve 2 years ago
I see. Well, I guess I'll try your approach.
AestheticNerd 2 years ago
Your approach seems to be working for me. French at school was all textbook-based and I loathed it - and, unsurprisingly, learnt very little even after a few years.
I've learnt a hell of lot more Japanese, including kanji, by teaching myself, over only about 9 months than I did French.
Kani aside I primarily just listen to a lot of Japanese material aimed at a Japanese audience. The vocab and grammar I pick up is almost all as a result of hearing it in context. I'm loving it. So far so good!
acromel 2 years ago
This is music to my ears. When I was in Czech language classes, the teacher told us not only to learn all the grammar, but to create spreadsheets full of rules and vocabulary. She called this "the system" - and whole approach was dull as hell. Sure, we learned lots of facts ABOUT the language, but never learned to use the language. I dropped out, and started to embrace uncertainty, and it worked like a charm.
Silvuschka 2 years ago
This was a nice video.I agree with everything you've said about language learning.
laoshu505000 2 years ago
I have seen your excellent videos and I think we are on the same wave lenght.
lingosteve 2 years ago
Thanks for your kind words. I enjoy watching your videos as well. They are very informative.
laoshu505000 2 years ago
Hey Steve, you please interview Moses... of course only if he says yes. That would be great for your podcasts!
zocurtis 2 years ago