the close-mindedness and bigotry on this video is so overwhelming that I'm not gonna try and argue, it'd be a waste of time. I'm just gonna ask a question. how many of you recognize the Church is a corrupted, rotten to the core man-made construct?
JESUS CHRIST, HIS CATHOLIC-UNIVERSAL-APOSTOLIC CHURCH, SACRAMENTS, THE BIBLE, MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ST. MARY APPARITIONS, MESSAGES FROM HEAVEN, SIGNS IN 2011 ARE NOT A MYTHOLOGY BUT THE REALITY !!!
The apparent transformation of others lives (mine included) is what keeps me believing. Just my opinion - you don't have to believe it so don't flip out. And if you want to flip out at me then message me because I'm not going to debate publicly about it
why do atheists live on youtube? though making up only a tiny percent of the population, they seem to overwhelm the youtube community, and post comments on every video they don't agree with.
I would be lying if I said that I didn't somtimes think of the possibility of God or a god. I'm just a skeptic in nature, it's my disposition, I'm afraid. Though I don't really like the idea of eternity. And I also feel as if there is a god, he is more of a designer than a lawyer.
@canesrule96 "If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore creatures with no eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning." -C.S. Lewis
God isn't some being who "sets" rules. God is the rules himself. He is all that is good. He IS Truth. What he designed (the particulars) is His work, which glorifies and testifies to a creator. msg me back if you reply.
@joshybumboshy I'm afraid I don't know the name of the documentary, but much of what Lewis says in here comes from his autobiographical work, "Surprised by Joy." I read that book not long ago, and it is well worth a read.
@TheSpartanScorpion Haha!!! Sorry! I didn't mean to post that! I was trying to write an email and didn't relies that I was on YouTube! The email was an inside joke!! It would be REALLY rude to post something like THAT! U know?
PART TWO, sorry it cut me off before because it was to long. world was not created by a god. YOU have just shown evidence that evolution was only created to mask the being of a true god. Why would you do this? Because it's true!!! Please reply back and attempt to prove me wrong.Just remember, you said everything. Ya, that's what I thought.
@merneptah2........ A few days ago, you seemed to say.... and I quote..."and the Hubble space telescope FALSIFIES creationism nicely." Now being the Christian that I am, I felt obliged to correct you. You see, merneptah2, falsified means to "alter so as to mislead"; this means, and remember that YOU said it, that the whole evolution theory is covering up or misleading the universe's TRUE creation! Now, any person would know that an atheists' goal is to show CLEAR evidence on the point that the
This whole thing seems scripted and pretentious. Every persons journey through life and death is there own. Come to your own conclusions but whatever you believe please be good to others.
Hey c'mon atheists, stop whinning, he converted to religion and so what? Are u going to do like religious people who start ranting about how that person was never truly from their religion (I know atheism is not a religion)? Are u going to insult that person, like religous people when they claim that the said person is "going to hell" or that "they'r fool"?. Come on, ur giving atheism a bad name
Wonderful comment. Both sides are guilty of this and people need to stop this. Religious people condemn (sometimes rightfully) and atheists call people a fool (sometimes rightfully). It's nice to see a comment that stays civil while presenting an opposing view.
I see atheists look incredulous when CS Lewis says "I was angry at God". Yet they will cheer Christopher Hitchens when he says something like "I will not submit to this cosmic dictator" (who according to him, doesn't exist). Look at the atheist's posts on youtube, blogs, etc.. you'd have to be blind not to notice the seething anger in most of them. The two basic principles of Atheism:
@Jesrael1986M It depends on the views about god from the said atheist. Some would prefer if he existed, others will be neutral, others will have no idea and others would simply don't like him if he existed.
@REDRAGON12345 Sorry, but I have zero tolerance for complete and utter stupidity. I don't believe any gods exist, period. Saying that atheists are mad at god is like someone saying they're mad at santa claus or the easter bunny. BTW, there are way more famous atheist authors than christian ones. H.G. Wells, Arthur C. Clarke, Douglas Adams, Isaac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, H.P. Lovecraft, Kurt Vonnegut, Charles Bukowski and George Orwell to name a few.
@BeavisNButtheadRock Now, you realize that there are many theist who have "zero tolerance for complete and utter stupidity" when it comes to atheism? Many people will argue that atheism requires a larger leap of faith than theism. But regardless, why would you say that theism is "stupidity" when so many people believe and argue for it.
@BeavisNButtheadRock We want to find Truth right? FInding Truth does not require name calling or an arrogant approach man. Don't fall into the typical atheist stereotype of being prideful and name calling ;/
@BeavisNButtheadRock That's completely fair. Trust me, as a theist I am around many Christians who give us bad stereotypes. I just think its vital (And I hope you would agree) that finding truth is the main goal, not putting others down to stroke our own pride.
@Jesrael1986M please don't confuse an anger directed towards theism, as an anger towards god. All the violence, and cruelty that came from it, as well as the ignorant belief that because you believe in your god, therefore those who don't, don't have the right to marry/clone/etc, is what atheists are angry at. If Christianity actually forwarded mankind instead of brutally thrusting it into its dark ages, and constantly trying to slow its progress in the present it would be a good thing.
@MaxGCSL I have a problem with 2 parts of your comment. First off, the claim that theism caused the dark ages is simply not supported by historical facts. Also the claim that religion causes more bad than good is unlikely considering that atheism has been a major factor in most of the largest genocides of the 20th century. Its also worth noting that while most religions promote charity, the only thing atheism is able to promote is materialism.
Not really. Where the evidence for "god" again? I wait with baited breath for your intelligent and well formulated reply. I gonna be waiting a long long time!
@merneptah2 Its atheist like you that give you all the negative stereotype of being arrogant, prideful and insulting people. Its clear to me that you are not interested in finding the truth and more interested in putting others down and stroking your enormous pride.
You know what, FUCK YOU. I've examined these things to death. I know far more about the bible than the average believe. I know more about the history of the bible than you do. I've heard EVER SINGLE ONE of these arguments a million times and know every possible flaw in them. No, there's no evidence that Jesus did the things that the bible claims because there is NOT ONE account of his life outside of the gospels. There's also NO EVIDENCE that moses was a real person either.
@merneptah2 It's good to hear you've done your research. I myself am just starting my journey looking for truth. Again, I wish you well on your search for truth. Peace
@merneptah2 Of course I have my reasons for believing in God. If you are interested in finding truth you should check them out to see where I'm coming from. There's the cosmological argument from contingency, the kalam cosmological argument based on the beginning of the universe, the moral argument based upon objective moral values and duties, the teleological argument from fine-tuning,
@merneptah2 continued:the ontological argument from the possibility of God’s existence to his actuality, the argument from the 2nd law of thermodynamics, Einstein's theory of relativity with Hubble discovers of the cosmos, the historical fact of Jesus Christ and Him rising from the deal, just to name a few arguments.
There is no evidence that Jesus was a historical fact. The second law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with apologetics. Einstein's theory of relativity has nothing to do with god either. And the hubble space telescope falsifies creationism nicely
@merneptah2 Ok man. It is very clear you have made up your mind regardless of whatever I can or will say. I hope you have a great life and I hope you continue to search for truth :)
It's clear that you assert things that you can't support with evidence and then accuse people who don't buy your weak, worthless arguments of being CLOSE MINDED. Now, since you can't can support argument that you brought up with any real evidence, your going to run away like a coward. HAVE A GREAT LIFE:0
People can hate Voldemort when they read Harry Potter, it doesn't mean he's a real person. It's possible to hate a fictional character. When even the Old Testament describes god's behaviour as evil, you shouldn't judge atheists for coming to the same conclusion.
@darrenarms As an atheist myself I'm not aware of hating either God (though if he's like the OT describes him he's something of a dick) or people who happen to be religious. From my experience with other atheists few of them seem to hate religious people and it's generally a bad idea to hate a large group of people.
Heck I think I'd be more likely to hate some God characters, it wouldn't be the first time I felt hatred towards a fictional character.
@Sage80 Oh yes, they're awfull those pink elephants. I don't mind elephants of course but I don't get why they have to be pink. What's wrong with say, green or perhaps red. This may seem a tad bit racist, but it's just how I feel on the issue. If it was up to me every pink elephant in the world would be forcibly repainted.
@Jesrael1986M i think its i would hate him if he did exist. i am an athiest because there is no evidence of god. but if the bible tells the truth. then he is a cosmic facist.
@Jesrael1986M I see you, like so many other theists, are confusing atheists and anti-theists.
Atheists such as myself don't believe in God, we don't give personality or personify him in anyway. He does nto exists.
Anti-theists hate God and those who are religious. It's hilariously hypocritical of you to accuse all atheists or being that way, when you yourself are making unjust and rash assumptions yourself.
@Jesrael1986M What bugs me about Atheists is how they complain about how religious people spread their propaganda and shove their beliefs down everyone`s throat. Atheists do the exact same when they make those posts, movies, clips etc. I don`t care what your beliefs are. I`ll be cool with you (anyone), but be careful to not be a hypocrite.
@Jesrael1986M Well yeah, you can hate a fictional character. For one I think Paris is a Jerk and unhonorable idiot. And that traitorous Iago, deserves what he got. It makes it so much interesting and fun to see the hero triumph over the villain. Except in your Bible God who has the personality of all of those characters combined and not only that never recieves the penalty for all the atrocities he's comitted.
@DoubtingThomas666 Oh yes..Well actually that was not his experience with Christianity at all. Why don't you try understanding facts for once. And I'm not talking about science. You're talking out of your ass and you know it.
The man wanted to be a poet his whole life. His conversion just happened to influence his drive for poetry.
@jshjamaar an atheist actually trying to PROVE atheism on YT??....Wow!...usually they just christianbash and expect that to solve all the riddles of the universe!....i think i would not try to earn the title of "atheist" if , by the very definition of the word, i would have to argue for God's non-existence.
it's much much easier to be intellectually lazy and christian-bash.
Respond to this video... kracg999... you obviously have NEVER studied c.s.lewis. no he did not proof the exsistance of God...no one EVER has but, he had given the best posible argument in history. Can you do better?
"You must picture me alone in that room at Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet". Then, the moment of truth: "I gave in and admitted that God was God". How true this is!!! Thank you, C. S. Lewis...
The Hippolytus of Euripides, pagan as it might be, influenced CS Lewis, and moved him towards Christianity. This poem, written by a pagan, is also an indication of that God has placed an innate longing in everyone for something that is not of this world. Even those who know nothing of Christianity feel the tug or longing for something that is divine.
The writing of a man who spent time wisely going over his thoughts and feelings, but unwisely never going over why he had such thoughts and feelings.
The line that gives it away - "If there is hunger, there is food. If there is sexual desire, there is sex. If there is curiosity, there is knowledge. So if there is the desire for this thing that is beyond this world, there must be something beyond this world."
Everything he listed conveys survival advantage, not a true reflection of reality.
@SolRosenberg84 If I experience hunger, I can potentially still this craving with food. If there's sexual desire, I can satisfy it with sex. If I'm curious about something, it will give me satisfaction to actually find out. If there is the desire for something that is not a thing but beyond all things, there's nothing that can satisfy it except that which is not a thing but beyond all things.
oddly enough his convert, the famous j.r.r. tolkien; though a devout christian, wrote some of the most pagan/shamanistic fiction in the world and was looked unto as a sort of 'demi-god' to the hippies and free-thinking libertarians of the 1960's and 70's. Tolkien died ironically devoted only by those who were in the least bit devout. I love both his work and C.S. Lewis' books. Writing brings us to new places, and each writer takes their own path, whether it's faithful or questioning faith.
@mylampstand it's an endless, tiring cycle. Religion manipulates the way people's mind work; the way we operate mentally. and it takes a grasp at the weak (children 10 and younger) as you said. And adults 20+ (who feel they need to conform and believe in faith) One problem with rebellion is that it makes a person no wiser. I want to advise all adolescence who have enough freewill and common sense to look these videos up on youtube, to research, come to your own conclusions. Info is you're savior
@quidnick The endless, tiring cycle you speak of is th vanity of man. Everyone wants to be right, and eveyone has an opinion regardless of their experience or knowledge. Christians like myself know that religion is passed on (and many "Christians" fall into this catagory) but true knowledge of Christ is spiritually discerned, and confirmed. No one can convince anyone to truely believe in God. They can spark their curiosity, but ultimately it is God who reveals Himself to man, to all the willing.
seriously though, is it a prerequisite to have some sort of personality disorder to be a "true" atheist. i have yet to meet one that didnt display an intense, domineering narcisism that would make Ike Turner gag. and why are you guys always sooo combative, and upset, and lerking around posting on all the christian videos? it seems that deep down, the vast majority of you guys dont really hold to your convictions as tightly as you let on. otherwise you wouldnt argue so much about fantasy. right?
And no. Atheism is not the belief that there is no god (though that is my position). It is the disbelief of that claim. If you don't understand the difference maybe you should leave Atheism to the Atheists instead of saying what Atheism is or isn't.
When you can, answer my last question.
Who believes they have no one to answer to?
Or this one.
What does worshipping oneself mean?
They are both claims you made but I dont understand either.
@locouru I would beg to differ. Atheism as a general term can encompass a whole range of views including Agnosticism ( I don't know if God exists) and Positive Atheism (I.E. the position maintained that there is no God.)
Also another position would be the Verificationist view that posits that until the term God can be properly defined then it is a meaningless question. Even Agnosticism is subb catagorized into Soft and Hard Agnosticism. I would maintain that only Soft Agnosticism would truely be what you properly call a lack of belief.
its so funny that atheists believe that all other atheists must adhere to their concept of atheism, and will denounce their atheism. Atheism has all the elements of a religion. It is just the religion of not believing. You even have prophets (who proselytize). It just makes me laugh that humanity will always have religion even if they believe that they have withdrawn from it.
The only thing I got from this is that since we naturally have a desire for an all powerful being, that this desire can only come from an all powerful being? I still dont get it.......
It's probably reasonable to say that the average atheist is more intelligent than the average Christian because as a group they value the intellect more than most people do.
When it comes to having an awareness of God they're at a disadvantage because of their total focus on that one aspect of what it means to be human. Intuiting something isn't really their forte.
Check out my channel for rant-free Atheist/Christian discussion.
It is unlike an Atheist to be a poet in the first place. Lewis's very mind, which was happy with things natural and artistic, was the farthest from the skeptical, uncovering mind of the Atheist: Lewis enjoyed the mystery.
Can't you think for yourself?? You think you sound so cool with your stupid comment that is used all the time by actual smart people you wish you were like. Little puppet, you're a follower!!
I'd respect an Atheist turned Theist if they admitted their new belief is no more true than someone's of another religion. If they were actually someone who considered themselves an Athest they wouldn't say things like they cursed god.
An ex-Atheist would know how an Atheist thinks. All these "ex-Atheists" I have come across don't have a clue what Atheism is.
I don't think most atheists have a clue what it means, either. My opinion is that the only true atheist is a nihilist, and that most atheists are secretly agnostics.
I think you are dead wrong. Atheism is about disbelieving in gods only. Anything else an Atheist believes or disbelieves has nothing to do with Atheism.
Atheism is about lack of belief in deities. Agnosticism is about lack of knowledge in anyting. You can be agnostic in respect to the Platonic ideal or the Multiverse hypothesis.
Regarding agnostics in the deistic sense: you may call them "weak" atheists, but, most sensible definitions applied, they are atheists. They lack a belief in god. Agnostic atheists lack that belief, and they propose that we will never know.
»I think that in philosophical strictness at the level where one doubts the existence of material objects and holds that the world may have existed for only five minutes, I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla.«
Again: atheist = lack of belief; agnostic = lack of knowing.
Cursing something nonexistent, like Lewis at 1:04 (must find out whether he really wrote that).
Lewis »maintained« that god (capital-g?) didn't exist? Angry with god for NOT existing? For creating a world in which are creatures forced to exist?
This state of mind is not atheistic, it's psychotic. I really hope for Lewis' credibility, that he didn't actually write such drivel. Maybe the makers of the documentary laid words in his mouth -- wouldn't be new, now would it?
LOL! You obviously don't understand what he is saying. You take his statement out of context. He is saying if God does exist he is angry with him, listen to the rest of the statement don't just cherry pick like you atheists are so used to doing, sigh! He says "why should creatures have the burden forced on them without their consent." Take his statement in context you only make yourself out to be foolish!
You're an idiot if you think that atheists do not curse God, I've come across so many atheist that curse God all the time, right here on youtube. Maybe you don't know what cursing actually is. Look up some atheist videos, you'll see all sorts of blasphemy against a God they don't even believe, I always found it quite funny, people saying Fuc* God, God can suck my dic%, that is cursing God buddy, get a clue!
So what if Atheists curse god? That does not mean they actually believe one exists. Fuck god, fuck Santa. They are both made made and I disagree wtih both.
Calling people idiots does not give more weight to your argument. It just makes you look like a typical intolerable christian.
I didn't know there was a doctrine Atheists adhere to. What is it called?
Atheists are not a group that stick together or a group that should agree on this and that. They just disbelieve a god exists. Why is that so hard to understand?
I don't know where you are getting this from. It is Christians who call other Christians "not true Christians". Atheists don't say that about other Atheists. How could they?
lol, and you didn't even get it. Your actually claiming an atheist was not a true atheist, or at least a good one. And atheism is a religion just as anything else is. You think because something like buddhism (i dunno they might have a god) doesn't have a god then are they not atheists? But they're a religion. My point is, I know atheists are much less ritualistic than a "religion" but many of the ideas of atheism and the way people follow it could be a religion, and your god: yourself.
now before you think I'm giving you a typical christian answer, let me ask you this. What is a god? it is something you worship, and what is worship? some people have this idea that it involves yelling praises out or going to church, but worship is simply giving something to whatever youre worshiping that it or they desire. If a person practices a certain lifestyle and believes that they have noone to answer to for that life style but themselves then they could be said to be worshiping themsel
Sorry, which Atheist did I claim wasn't a true Atheist and when?
Religion involves believing something. Atheism does not.
You said Atheism does not have a god but is still a religion like Buddhism and then you said the god of an Atheist is oneself. Which is it? Which one do I argue against?
You tell me what a god is. You believe in one. And I'll tell you if I agree that one might exist or not.
your missing my point, I'm simply explaining how it is similar. Do you think I'm really saying that worshiping oneself is on par with worshiping a super natural deity? And atheism is not believing in something eh? well last time I checked you believe there is no God, there is no such thing in my mind as non belief only counter beliefs. And you were refering to cs lewis and Kirk cameron. I'll post your quote in another comment.
"An ex-Atheist would know how an Atheist thinks. All these "ex-Atheists" I have come across don't have a clue what Atheism is.
Look at C.S Lewis and Kirk Cameron. " - locouru. Sounds to me like your saying they didn't know what atheism is so they weren't real atheists. Maybe i miss interpreted.
I stand by what I said. But maybe you can explain it to me since I misunderstand. How can an Atheist, a person with no belief in a god, hate god?
These people can never appeal to an Atheist because that is not the position an Atheist holds. Maybe they were once Atheists. I just find it hard to comprehend how they could say such a thing. It makes no sense to me.
@locouru I guess he meant that he did not like the idea of an all loving God because he viewed it as incompatible with reality. I think that is what he resented. Since theism and Christianity in particular was the majority belief he felt so engulfed by these views that he resented them. If this does not make sense try imagining watching a movie in which you come to resent the main character because you don't like him. Is the character real? Either way it does not change how you feel.
It's frustrating to be an atheist surfing Youtube. We keep coming across these videos that promise a convincing argument, but are nothing more than ten minutes of mumbo jumbo (like this one)
check out some of the interesting lectures by Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Sagan, Degrass-Tyson, and Pinker, as well as some videos from TED or FORA TV.
I've seen those men, Nick. They're brilliant. But these "Christians" are the ones that REALLY convince me my atheism is the correct way to be. They come up with these idiotic straw man patronizing answers to perfectly good questions. It's only then that I KNOW that atheism is the only correct divine truth.
Ever try asking one of them a question of your own? They give an answer that's patronizing at worst and at best,..nonsensical. They're like Ralph Wiggum (The Simpsons) but without the little kid charm.
Good question. As far as I understand is that he was absent of a belief in God but not completely sure. If there may be one he had questionable doubts or even some anger at him.
It was the realization of the consequences of creatures of reason, in a world without meaning, which makes Lewis "angry at God" for his non-existence, as understood by Atheists. Further, Lewis says in the video, "Why should creatures have the burden of existence forced on them without their consent?"
"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. . ." C.S. Lewis From Mere Christianity
@JustKlippen so you see, because Lewis as an Atheist, believed God did not exist, he was "angry at God"(or the abstract idea of an all-good being) precisely for his absence in a universe where humans had the capacity to reason and would inevitably discover there is no meaning to the universe. This is more a statement about Atheism than his disbelief in the claim of any god.
@madhat2k sounds like most atheists to me. if you mention "God" many atheists blow up with rage inside. Hitchens book "God is not great" comes to mind.
If (starting at 1:03) Lewis was living like (as if) an atheists, maintaining that god did not exist, then how could he honestly claim, in the same breath, that he was concurrently mad at god for not existing? Based on this, and other readings of Lewis' works, I feel Lewis NEVER was an atheist. Lewis may have questioned the existence of a god, (as most do) but I have never read or heard of him forthrightly abandon his belief in a god!
Here is a breakdown from a like soul of Lewis. I am a former Atheist turned Theist. Whilst an Atheist, I was enveous of those with blind faith. I wondered,"why can I not have that? Why was I born with such an over analyzing mind?" It only took some philosophical thought to hit me...there is no more evidence against Gods existence than their is FOR its existence. It then comes down to a personal choice. I personally see to much beauty in the world to deny a God. However, I am not religious.
It says Wicca and atheist on your profile. If I were to guess you do not believe in the same type of god (the all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, perfect, jealous and vengeful God) that Lewis believed.
If you want to claim that nature or everything is a god, so be it. I just call nature nature, and everything everything!
I can assure you that Lewis did not believe in a vengeful God. It's a funny thing when people like Dawkins and others describe God as vengeful. They must have a high school understaning of God. I have never heard any theologian or theistic philosopher define God in such a way. These are people that know the material in depth. I have asked philosophers and theologians at the Univeristy of Dallas and Loyola about this trend and they laugh. I guess Sartre truly was the last honest atheist.
I meant vengeful in the same way many Christians mean from Biblical passages like //Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord//. Also I mean vengeance as describe about the God of the Old Testament that smited so many, and of the New Testament that is to be feared because his wrath is yet to come, etc. Dont be ridiculous!
I do stand corrected if vengeance is not an attribute of the God Lewis claimed he believed in. Im not sure what denomination with which he was affiliated.
Lewis was a member of the Church of England. He was an Anglican. However, he was leaning very much towards the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, I believe had he been alive today he would have been Catholic. The Church of England, today, is not the same faith that Lewis believed in. Please remember that the scriptures are more than just statements. People against the bible are very naive about it's context. The bible is history, poetry, symbolism, theology, philosophy, narration, ect.
My main point I think still stands: Lewis was never an atheist in the sense that he denied the existence of a god. At best Lewis questioned whether there was a god and expressed anger at this god; while this might be doubt, it is not denial.
Many people in favor of the Bible are bias about its contents! The Bible is historical, poetic, symbolic, theological, philosophical and MYTHICAL, etc. The Bible is a mix of both true and false stories that have been passed down through time.
Thisis where we have to differ. Your position on certain parts of the bible must be mythical by default, otherwise you would be a believer. Your mythical is my philosophical. Example would be Job. I think we both would agree that Jod never existed. The difference here is that this ends the story with. For me it's an awesome philosophical lesson on suffering. God teaches us that life is suffering.
I dont think that Job is necessarily a myth; he could have been a real person. I think we both agree that Jesus was a real person who was crucified ancient Roman style. The main myth about the story of Job is that God and Satan (of the Bible) gambled with his life. One of the main myths about Jesus is that he resurrected from the dead after being crucified.
Job may have been a real person but the game played on him is mythical. Jesus probably was a real person but resurrection is a myth!
I find your logic a bit flawed. There is not one shred of evidence that Job existed. However, you say he "may have been a real person" and then you say Jesus "probably" was a real person. The evidence for the historicity of Christ is overwhelming. It's clear to me that your presupposition is that we live in a material existence. You are ready to accept Job as a real person with no evidence, however, not the God componant of the story. You do the same with Jesus.
I should clarify when I said //I dont think that Job is necessarily a myth; he could have been a real person//. I mean that Job is a myth and Jesus is probably not a myth. However, even if both were real, the supernaturalisms, or miracles, or out of this world events alleged to have been performed by or towards either of them are all myths! What reasons do we have to believe in the so-called //God component of the story//? It would be like saying since the Parthenon is a real, so is Athena!
I agree with you on most of what you said. The difference is that person of Jesus makes complete sense to me. I would recommend you read Walker Percy's Lost in the Cosmos, then read G.K. Chesterton's The Everlasting Man. My beliefs stem from an understanding of physics and philosophy, culminating in Catholic theology (I'm working on my Masters in theological studies). I think we both can agree that Zeus does not exist. We can go to Mount Olympus and prove it.
However, I do believe in God. I believe in a God that has given me both reason and faith to experience him. Again, I would suggest you read Lost in the Cosmos.
@JohnHasSeriousQ Job was a real man who really lived on this earth and died on this earth. He is also mentioned in the Quran (the islam or muslim holy book).
I would disagree with what you said about Lewis. I think he did reject the existence of God. However, I can see how his choice of words could make someone believe otherwise. I think Lewis expressed his anger in a very personal manner. He referred to God, even though he didn't believe. I constantly do the same thing with certain people I have never met. Lewis simply decided to write it down.
I obviously dont have time to read more apologetics just now, could you just tell me what was so convincing about them in a nutshell. I think it is irrelevant that both of us agree that Zeus does not exist because we could both be wrong. The Greek gods were alleged to have live in the spirit world on top of the clouds ABOVE Mt. Olympus. After all, you believe there is a god and believe there are none; at least one of us is very wrong! Study more about the fallacy of the excluded middle!
Thank you for the philosophical invitation. I am very familiar with the law of the excluded middle. I got my B.A in Philosophy from UNLV. You would be surprised how contested the law actually is. However, I think we both agree to it. We both suscribe to the law of non-contradiction.
Back to your question, I guess I would have to say, in a nutshell, my intellectual conversion began with something that C.S. Lewis said: "I believe in the sun just as I believe that the sun has risen, not because I can see it, but because by way of it I can see everything else." This was also my personal experience. Then when I read Walker Percy's Lost in the Cosmos, I was hooked. I could get into the physics and philosophy aspect of my belief, however, I don't believe in the philosopher's God.
I believe in the God that manifested himself as a human being. This is the God I defend. I will not defend mythical characters that never even existed (Zeus). P.S. Whether Zeus lived on Mount Olympus or above the earth is debatable. Homer argued that Zeus actually lived in a palace on the mountain. Either way Zeus and the others clearly made it the focal point for their earthly manifestations.
I messed up the lewis quote. I put the word sun instead of God. It should say: "I believe in GOD just as I believe that the sun has risen, not because I can see it, but because by way of it I can see everything else."
If you knew about the law of non-contradiction, often referred to as the law of the excluded middle then why did you try to dismiss the possibility that Zeus or Athena could be real simply because we agree? Would you admit that Zeus or Athena could be real, in spite of the fact we both hold they do not? After all, as you just stated, the Greek and Roman gods had earthly manifestations just like your God. I believe all gods are possible, but that not one is more likely to exist than any other.
You say you know a little philosophy. Hopefully you know where almost every great thinker about the god-concept will agree. From Socrates to Plato, from Augustine to Hume, from Aquinas to Russell, from Engels to Lewis, and from Dawkins to Craig, belief in a god is first and foremost contingent upon belief in a god. In order to believe in a god, one must first believe in a god. I know it sounds weird, but it is just that weird. Belief in a god is circular reasoning! How else could it be?
This is not the same as attributing "gods" to natural phenomenon, like Zeus or Poseidon. Quick note, how can belief in God be circular reasoning? I'm not using the existences of God as an argument to affirm his existence. I don't think you have a good grasp of what circular reasoning is. And please don't group Dawkins in the same group with Aquinas.
You can't compare the greatest philosopher (Aquinas) with Dawkins, a biologist/horrible philosopher. And how can you believe all "gods" are equally possible? That argument collapses on itself. The God of Einstein is very probable. The Gods of the Urantians is not. Are you denying this?
It's like saying that shooting yourself in the head might or might not produce damage. We know which is the more rational position. In fact, it's empiricaly verifiable. Gotta run. We can continue this tommorow! Good night.
the close-mindedness and bigotry on this video is so overwhelming that I'm not gonna try and argue, it'd be a waste of time. I'm just gonna ask a question. how many of you recognize the Church is a corrupted, rotten to the core man-made construct?
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JezusSlave 4 weeks ago
The apparent transformation of others lives (mine included) is what keeps me believing. Just my opinion - you don't have to believe it so don't flip out. And if you want to flip out at me then message me because I'm not going to debate publicly about it
kindofcoolstuff 3 months ago 3
why do atheists live on youtube? though making up only a tiny percent of the population, they seem to overwhelm the youtube community, and post comments on every video they don't agree with.
Sage80 4 months ago
I would be lying if I said that I didn't somtimes think of the possibility of God or a god. I'm just a skeptic in nature, it's my disposition, I'm afraid. Though I don't really like the idea of eternity. And I also feel as if there is a god, he is more of a designer than a lawyer.
canesrule96 5 months ago
@canesrule96 "If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore creatures with no eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning." -C.S. Lewis
God isn't some being who "sets" rules. God is the rules himself. He is all that is good. He IS Truth. What he designed (the particulars) is His work, which glorifies and testifies to a creator. msg me back if you reply.
zacrichey 1 month ago
what is the name of this freaken documentary so I can watch the rest of it.. it's bloody fascinating! Someone answer me please!
joshybumboshy 6 months ago
@joshybumboshy I'm afraid I don't know the name of the documentary, but much of what Lewis says in here comes from his autobiographical work, "Surprised by Joy." I read that book not long ago, and it is well worth a read.
Stardweller1 5 months ago
@TheSpartanScorpion Haha!!! Sorry! I didn't mean to post that! I was trying to write an email and didn't relies that I was on YouTube! The email was an inside joke!! It would be REALLY rude to post something like THAT! U know?
country116r 6 months ago
do any atheistes want to debate?! I apparently stomped one already!!!
country116r 7 months ago
@country116r ummm sure.
TheSpartanScorpion 6 months ago
PART TWO, sorry it cut me off before because it was to long. world was not created by a god. YOU have just shown evidence that evolution was only created to mask the being of a true god. Why would you do this? Because it's true!!! Please reply back and attempt to prove me wrong.Just remember, you said everything. Ya, that's what I thought.
country116r 7 months ago
@merneptah2........ A few days ago, you seemed to say.... and I quote..."and the Hubble space telescope FALSIFIES creationism nicely." Now being the Christian that I am, I felt obliged to correct you. You see, merneptah2, falsified means to "alter so as to mislead"; this means, and remember that YOU said it, that the whole evolution theory is covering up or misleading the universe's TRUE creation! Now, any person would know that an atheists' goal is to show CLEAR evidence on the point that the
country116r 7 months ago
This video should be renamed "C.S Lewis, from Right to Wrong."
I have no resentment for somthing that doesn't exist, only the people who are willing to kill for somthing which is so blatently false.
FreeWater9 9 months ago
Who wrote the poem "Lewis" reads?
kndama 10 months ago
This whole thing seems scripted and pretentious. Every persons journey through life and death is there own. Come to your own conclusions but whatever you believe please be good to others.
GASmotorsports 10 months ago
Hey c'mon atheists, stop whinning, he converted to religion and so what? Are u going to do like religious people who start ranting about how that person was never truly from their religion (I know atheism is not a religion)? Are u going to insult that person, like religous people when they claim that the said person is "going to hell" or that "they'r fool"?. Come on, ur giving atheism a bad name
BTW: I'm an atheist myself
rolingpingu 10 months ago 2
@rolingpingu
Wonderful comment. Both sides are guilty of this and people need to stop this. Religious people condemn (sometimes rightfully) and atheists call people a fool (sometimes rightfully). It's nice to see a comment that stays civil while presenting an opposing view.
BTW: I am a Christian.
DarthCheese777 9 months ago
From where did you get this documentary? I'd really like to watch it in its entirety.
TheWeeWhistler 11 months ago
@TheWeeWhistler I was able to answer my own question. This is a segment from the PBS documentary called "The Question of God".
TheWeeWhistler 11 months ago
I see atheists look incredulous when CS Lewis says "I was angry at God". Yet they will cheer Christopher Hitchens when he says something like "I will not submit to this cosmic dictator" (who according to him, doesn't exist). Look at the atheist's posts on youtube, blogs, etc.. you'd have to be blind not to notice the seething anger in most of them. The two basic principles of Atheism:
1. There is no God.
2. I hate Him.
Jesrael1986M 1 year ago 43
@Jesrael1986M Atheists don't hate god. Atheists hate the idea of god, particularly as espoused by the Abrahamic religions.
Moun10eer14 10 months ago
@Jesrael1986M It depends on the views about god from the said atheist. Some would prefer if he existed, others will be neutral, others will have no idea and others would simply don't like him if he existed.
rolingpingu 10 months ago
@Jesrael1986M I can't hate something I don't believe in you fucking moron.
BeavisNButtheadRock 9 months ago 2
@BeavisNButtheadRock And theres the hatred from another arrogant atheist
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345 Sorry, but I have zero tolerance for complete and utter stupidity. I don't believe any gods exist, period. Saying that atheists are mad at god is like someone saying they're mad at santa claus or the easter bunny. BTW, there are way more famous atheist authors than christian ones. H.G. Wells, Arthur C. Clarke, Douglas Adams, Isaac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, H.P. Lovecraft, Kurt Vonnegut, Charles Bukowski and George Orwell to name a few.
BeavisNButtheadRock 7 months ago
@BeavisNButtheadRock Now, you realize that there are many theist who have "zero tolerance for complete and utter stupidity" when it comes to atheism? Many people will argue that atheism requires a larger leap of faith than theism. But regardless, why would you say that theism is "stupidity" when so many people believe and argue for it.
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
Comment removed
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@BeavisNButtheadRock We want to find Truth right? FInding Truth does not require name calling or an arrogant approach man. Don't fall into the typical atheist stereotype of being prideful and name calling ;/
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345 And don't fall into the typical christian stereotype of thinking that atheists hate a god that they don't even believe exists.
BeavisNButtheadRock 7 months ago
@BeavisNButtheadRock That's completely fair. Trust me, as a theist I am around many Christians who give us bad stereotypes. I just think its vital (And I hope you would agree) that finding truth is the main goal, not putting others down to stroke our own pride.
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345 The point I'm trying to get across is that believing ANYTHING without scientific evidence is irrational.
BeavisNButtheadRock 7 months ago
@Jesrael1986M please don't confuse an anger directed towards theism, as an anger towards god. All the violence, and cruelty that came from it, as well as the ignorant belief that because you believe in your god, therefore those who don't, don't have the right to marry/clone/etc, is what atheists are angry at. If Christianity actually forwarded mankind instead of brutally thrusting it into its dark ages, and constantly trying to slow its progress in the present it would be a good thing.
MaxGCSL 8 months ago
@MaxGCSL I have a problem with 2 parts of your comment. First off, the claim that theism caused the dark ages is simply not supported by historical facts. Also the claim that religion causes more bad than good is unlikely considering that atheism has been a major factor in most of the largest genocides of the 20th century. Its also worth noting that while most religions promote charity, the only thing atheism is able to promote is materialism.
liberalmike1994 8 months ago
@Jesrael1986M
"The two basic principles of Atheism:
1. There is no God.
2. I hate Him.""
No it's actually this
1. Believers can't prove that god exists.
2. They use religion as a cudgel for there own prejudices and stupid behavior.
"I will not submit to this cosmic dictator" -Made up quote .
"you'd have to be blind not to notice the seething anger in most of them"
Probably because the god you worship is a ted bundy like psychopathic lunatic, And that it's the idea way to behave.
merneptah2 7 months ago 2
@merneptah2 And Jesreal's point is proven right there by another atheist :/
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345
Not really. Where the evidence for "god" again? I wait with baited breath for your intelligent and well formulated reply. I gonna be waiting a long long time!
merneptah2 7 months ago
@merneptah2 Its atheist like you that give you all the negative stereotype of being arrogant, prideful and insulting people. Its clear to me that you are not interested in finding the truth and more interested in putting others down and stroking your enormous pride.
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
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@REDRAGON12345 s
"Its clear to me that you are not interested in finding the truth"
No, I am interest in finding the truth that's why I don't believe in religion.
"more interested in putting others down and stroking your enormous pride.
You're move interested in preserving your enormous ignorance. At all costs.
merneptah2 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345
You know what, FUCK YOU. I've examined these things to death. I know far more about the bible than the average believe. I know more about the history of the bible than you do. I've heard EVER SINGLE ONE of these arguments a million times and know every possible flaw in them. No, there's no evidence that Jesus did the things that the bible claims because there is NOT ONE account of his life outside of the gospels. There's also NO EVIDENCE that moses was a real person either.
merneptah2 7 months ago
@merneptah2 It's good to hear you've done your research. I myself am just starting my journey looking for truth. Again, I wish you well on your search for truth. Peace
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345
Not really, I can't wait to hear your intelligent, evidence based defense of the existence of god. I be waiting quite a while. No rush!
merneptah2 7 months ago
@merneptah2 Of course I have my reasons for believing in God. If you are interested in finding truth you should check them out to see where I'm coming from. There's the cosmological argument from contingency, the kalam cosmological argument based on the beginning of the universe, the moral argument based upon objective moral values and duties, the teleological argument from fine-tuning,
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@merneptah2 continued:the ontological argument from the possibility of God’s existence to his actuality, the argument from the 2nd law of thermodynamics, Einstein's theory of relativity with Hubble discovers of the cosmos, the historical fact of Jesus Christ and Him rising from the deal, just to name a few arguments.
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345
There is no evidence that Jesus was a historical fact. The second law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with apologetics. Einstein's theory of relativity has nothing to do with god either. And the hubble space telescope falsifies creationism nicely
merneptah2 7 months ago
@merneptah2 Ok man. It is very clear you have made up your mind regardless of whatever I can or will say. I hope you have a great life and I hope you continue to search for truth :)
REDRAGON12345 7 months ago
@REDRAGON12345
It's clear that you assert things that you can't support with evidence and then accuse people who don't buy your weak, worthless arguments of being CLOSE MINDED. Now, since you can't can support argument that you brought up with any real evidence, your going to run away like a coward. HAVE A GREAT LIFE:0
merneptah2 7 months ago
@Jesrael1986M
"The two basic principles of Atheism:
1. There is no God.
2. I hate Him.
The two principles of Christianity-islam.
1. There is a god. (But he's out side of space or time ) You can't disprove this meaningless idea therefor it's true.
2.He a vile, hate filled psychopathic, jealous, mass murdering, slave owning, woman hating, sadist you should emulate.
3.Goto 1
merneptah2 7 months ago
@Jesrael1986M
"The two basic principles of Atheism:
1. There is no God.
2. I hate Him.
The tow basic principles of christianity
1. I think there's a god because I define it in such a way that it's utterly meaningless.Therefor you can't disprove it.
2. God is love and love is jealous, angry, mass murdering, slave owing and child killing. I want to be just like that!
merneptah2 7 months ago
@Jesrael1986M
People can hate Voldemort when they read Harry Potter, it doesn't mean he's a real person. It's possible to hate a fictional character. When even the Old Testament describes god's behaviour as evil, you shouldn't judge atheists for coming to the same conclusion.
UnoriginallyInclined 7 months ago
@Jesrael1986M we hate the people who believe in the idea obviously not the imaginary being otherwise it would be as stupid as God
darrenarms 6 months ago
@darrenarms As an atheist myself I'm not aware of hating either God (though if he's like the OT describes him he's something of a dick) or people who happen to be religious. From my experience with other atheists few of them seem to hate religious people and it's generally a bad idea to hate a large group of people.
Heck I think I'd be more likely to hate some God characters, it wouldn't be the first time I felt hatred towards a fictional character.
TheHabbadasher 5 months ago
@TheHabbadasher you often feel rage for pink elephants?
Sage80 4 months ago
@Sage80 Oh yes, they're awfull those pink elephants. I don't mind elephants of course but I don't get why they have to be pink. What's wrong with say, green or perhaps red. This may seem a tad bit racist, but it's just how I feel on the issue. If it was up to me every pink elephant in the world would be forcibly repainted.
TheHabbadasher 4 months ago
@Jesrael1986M i think its i would hate him if he did exist. i am an athiest because there is no evidence of god. but if the bible tells the truth. then he is a cosmic facist.
TheSpartanScorpion 6 months ago
@Jesrael1986M I see you, like so many other theists, are confusing atheists and anti-theists.
Atheists such as myself don't believe in God, we don't give personality or personify him in anyway. He does nto exists.
Anti-theists hate God and those who are religious. It's hilariously hypocritical of you to accuse all atheists or being that way, when you yourself are making unjust and rash assumptions yourself.
jackamatyus 6 months ago
@Jesrael1986M What bugs me about Atheists is how they complain about how religious people spread their propaganda and shove their beliefs down everyone`s throat. Atheists do the exact same when they make those posts, movies, clips etc. I don`t care what your beliefs are. I`ll be cool with you (anyone), but be careful to not be a hypocrite.
SX1995able 4 months ago
@Jesrael1986M Well yeah, you can hate a fictional character. For one I think Paris is a Jerk and unhonorable idiot. And that traitorous Iago, deserves what he got. It makes it so much interesting and fun to see the hero triumph over the villain. Except in your Bible God who has the personality of all of those characters combined and not only that never recieves the penalty for all the atrocities he's comitted.
slicingwater 1 week ago
@Jesrael1986M Beautifully said my friend!!!
Albertanator 4 days ago
Christian apologetics turns a good profit. Follow the money people.
DoubtingThomas666 1 year ago
@DoubtingThomas666 Oh yes..Well actually that was not his experience with Christianity at all. Why don't you try understanding facts for once. And I'm not talking about science. You're talking out of your ass and you know it.
The man wanted to be a poet his whole life. His conversion just happened to influence his drive for poetry.
luke2thab 1 year ago
How can an Atheist be angry at god? Starting out with a lie and ending with a lie. This seems to be true with all Christian apologetics.
DoubtingThomas666 1 year ago
@DoubtingThomas666
Yeah I know, anyone who doesn't agree with my personal beliefs are liars and monsters.
Jim1905 11 months ago
All these atheists trying to pull arguments out of their behind is very silly.
jshjamaar 1 year ago
@jshjamaar an atheist actually trying to PROVE atheism on YT??....Wow!...usually they just christianbash and expect that to solve all the riddles of the universe!....i think i would not try to earn the title of "atheist" if , by the very definition of the word, i would have to argue for God's non-existence.
it's much much easier to be intellectually lazy and christian-bash.
poor psuedo-atheist fucktards.
EastofForever 1 year ago
Respond to this video... kracg999... you obviously have NEVER studied c.s.lewis. no he did not proof the exsistance of God...no one EVER has but, he had given the best posible argument in history. Can you do better?
coltage 1 year ago
@coltage
I read C.S. Lewis argument and it's quite impressive!
Jim1905 11 months ago
C.S Lewis is a Christian apologetic, attempting to rationalize God.
Which... he never succeeded at.
Kracg999 1 year ago
"You must picture me alone in that room at Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet". Then, the moment of truth: "I gave in and admitted that God was God". How true this is!!! Thank you, C. S. Lewis...
Cristinact 1 year ago
Nowhere is the beloved more real than in the desire for the beloved.
BesACB 1 year ago
@BesACB True!!
Cristinact 1 year ago
The Hippolytus of Euripides, pagan as it might be, influenced CS Lewis, and moved him towards Christianity. This poem, written by a pagan, is also an indication of that God has placed an innate longing in everyone for something that is not of this world. Even those who know nothing of Christianity feel the tug or longing for something that is divine.
shysterlicious 1 year ago
The writing of a man who spent time wisely going over his thoughts and feelings, but unwisely never going over why he had such thoughts and feelings.
The line that gives it away - "If there is hunger, there is food. If there is sexual desire, there is sex. If there is curiosity, there is knowledge. So if there is the desire for this thing that is beyond this world, there must be something beyond this world."
Everything he listed conveys survival advantage, not a true reflection of reality.
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 If I experience hunger, I can potentially still this craving with food. If there's sexual desire, I can satisfy it with sex. If I'm curious about something, it will give me satisfaction to actually find out. If there is the desire for something that is not a thing but beyond all things, there's nothing that can satisfy it except that which is not a thing but beyond all things.
BesACB 1 year ago
Lewis is one of the greatest thinkers of the modern age.
SonofDust777 1 year ago 11
oddly enough his convert, the famous j.r.r. tolkien; though a devout christian, wrote some of the most pagan/shamanistic fiction in the world and was looked unto as a sort of 'demi-god' to the hippies and free-thinking libertarians of the 1960's and 70's. Tolkien died ironically devoted only by those who were in the least bit devout. I love both his work and C.S. Lewis' books. Writing brings us to new places, and each writer takes their own path, whether it's faithful or questioning faith.
quidnick 1 year ago
What is not said here
is how much indoctrination he received whilst a child
This saying holds true
Give me a child till he 7 & i will show you the man
Many teenagers rebel & they appear not to be interested in their parents religion
but if the indoctrination was strong in their early life then u will here when they reached their late 20's & 30's
hey i found god again
That is what is indoctrination is all about, people do not escape it
they rekindle it & pass it on 2 their children like a virus
mylampstand 1 year ago
@mylampstand it's an endless, tiring cycle. Religion manipulates the way people's mind work; the way we operate mentally. and it takes a grasp at the weak (children 10 and younger) as you said. And adults 20+ (who feel they need to conform and believe in faith) One problem with rebellion is that it makes a person no wiser. I want to advise all adolescence who have enough freewill and common sense to look these videos up on youtube, to research, come to your own conclusions. Info is you're savior
quidnick 1 year ago
@quidnick The endless, tiring cycle you speak of is th vanity of man. Everyone wants to be right, and eveyone has an opinion regardless of their experience or knowledge. Christians like myself know that religion is passed on (and many "Christians" fall into this catagory) but true knowledge of Christ is spiritually discerned, and confirmed. No one can convince anyone to truely believe in God. They can spark their curiosity, but ultimately it is God who reveals Himself to man, to all the willing.
robinho86 1 year ago
seriously though, is it a prerequisite to have some sort of personality disorder to be a "true" atheist. i have yet to meet one that didnt display an intense, domineering narcisism that would make Ike Turner gag. and why are you guys always sooo combative, and upset, and lerking around posting on all the christian videos? it seems that deep down, the vast majority of you guys dont really hold to your convictions as tightly as you let on. otherwise you wouldnt argue so much about fantasy. right?
necroshane 1 year ago 4
Can't say that I'm impressed with his critical thinking skills.
truth0r 1 year ago
And no. Atheism is not the belief that there is no god (though that is my position). It is the disbelief of that claim. If you don't understand the difference maybe you should leave Atheism to the Atheists instead of saying what Atheism is or isn't.
When you can, answer my last question.
Who believes they have no one to answer to?
Or this one.
What does worshipping oneself mean?
They are both claims you made but I dont understand either.
locouru 1 year ago
@locouru I would beg to differ. Atheism as a general term can encompass a whole range of views including Agnosticism ( I don't know if God exists) and Positive Atheism (I.E. the position maintained that there is no God.)
hippo11222 1 year ago
Also another position would be the Verificationist view that posits that until the term God can be properly defined then it is a meaningless question. Even Agnosticism is subb catagorized into Soft and Hard Agnosticism. I would maintain that only Soft Agnosticism would truely be what you properly call a lack of belief.
hippo11222 1 year ago
Lewis was a brilliant man!
juniorsti 1 year ago
Ha!
Lewis was an undercover Rosicrucian!
hybridamerica 2 years ago
cs lewis is awesome
doctorjay1976 2 years ago 29
Ok i am not angry with god and im an atheist i just highly doubt god exists, Lewis was a strange atheist if he was angry in my opinion.
MegaBadboy50 2 years ago
Well your opinion is stupid. You're saying that atheists cannot be angry, they are people just like everyone else, some angrier than others.
BruNoLoCc 2 years ago
That's not what i said and you seem arrogant so don't talk to me, you will just waste my time .
MegaBadboy50 2 years ago
its so funny that atheists believe that all other atheists must adhere to their concept of atheism, and will denounce their atheism. Atheism has all the elements of a religion. It is just the religion of not believing. You even have prophets (who proselytize). It just makes me laugh that humanity will always have religion even if they believe that they have withdrawn from it.
delbert0504 1 year ago
So... He used to be an atheist, turn a theist, and then became a Christian????
daddyleon 2 years ago
hello, is there a continuation to these videos? what is this series called so that i may get it at the library.
thanks
TheBookbound 2 years ago
this is interesting to watch
eugdog106 2 years ago 3
The only thing I got from this is that since we naturally have a desire for an all powerful being, that this desire can only come from an all powerful being? I still dont get it.......
cperritte01 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's probably reasonable to say that the average atheist is more intelligent than the average Christian because as a group they value the intellect more than most people do.
When it comes to having an awareness of God they're at a disadvantage because of their total focus on that one aspect of what it means to be human. Intuiting something isn't really their forte.
Check out my channel for rant-free Atheist/Christian discussion.
atheistfriends 2 years ago
It is unlike an Atheist to be a poet in the first place. Lewis's very mind, which was happy with things natural and artistic, was the farthest from the skeptical, uncovering mind of the Atheist: Lewis enjoyed the mystery.
edwardinkling 2 years ago
what a narrow way to think
delbert0504 1 year ago
Dunno what this has to do with the dead guy on the cross.
But joy seems perfectly good evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Elvisdogg 2 years ago
Can't you think for yourself?? You think you sound so cool with your stupid comment that is used all the time by actual smart people you wish you were like. Little puppet, you're a follower!!
BruNoLoCc 2 years ago
finally C S Lewis gave in to common sense that there is a designer that created the world.
danwazhere7 2 years ago
I'd respect an Atheist turned Theist if they admitted their new belief is no more true than someone's of another religion. If they were actually someone who considered themselves an Athest they wouldn't say things like they cursed god.
An ex-Atheist would know how an Atheist thinks. All these "ex-Atheists" I have come across don't have a clue what Atheism is.
Look at C.S Lewis and Kirk Cameron.
locouru 2 years ago
I don't think most atheists have a clue what it means, either. My opinion is that the only true atheist is a nihilist, and that most atheists are secretly agnostics.
Atreus21 2 years ago
I think you are dead wrong. Atheism is about disbelieving in gods only. Anything else an Atheist believes or disbelieves has nothing to do with Atheism.
locouru 2 years ago
It is the other way around, Atreus21.
Atheism is about lack of belief in deities. Agnosticism is about lack of knowledge in anyting. You can be agnostic in respect to the Platonic ideal or the Multiverse hypothesis.
Regarding agnostics in the deistic sense: you may call them "weak" atheists, but, most sensible definitions applied, they are atheists. They lack a belief in god. Agnostic atheists lack that belief, and they propose that we will never know.
leporidus 2 years ago
Here's Bertrand Russell:
»I think that in philosophical strictness at the level where one doubts the existence of material objects and holds that the world may have existed for only five minutes, I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla.«
Again: atheist = lack of belief; agnostic = lack of knowing.
leporidus 2 years ago
Cursing something nonexistent, like Lewis at 1:04 (must find out whether he really wrote that).
Lewis »maintained« that god (capital-g?) didn't exist? Angry with god for NOT existing? For creating a world in which are creatures forced to exist?
This state of mind is not atheistic, it's psychotic. I really hope for Lewis' credibility, that he didn't actually write such drivel. Maybe the makers of the documentary laid words in his mouth -- wouldn't be new, now would it?
leporidus 2 years ago
LOL! You obviously don't understand what he is saying. You take his statement out of context. He is saying if God does exist he is angry with him, listen to the rest of the statement don't just cherry pick like you atheists are so used to doing, sigh! He says "why should creatures have the burden forced on them without their consent." Take his statement in context you only make yourself out to be foolish!
BruNoLoCc 2 years ago
You're an idiot if you think that atheists do not curse God, I've come across so many atheist that curse God all the time, right here on youtube. Maybe you don't know what cursing actually is. Look up some atheist videos, you'll see all sorts of blasphemy against a God they don't even believe, I always found it quite funny, people saying Fuc* God, God can suck my dic%, that is cursing God buddy, get a clue!
BruNoLoCc 2 years ago 3
All I now need to do is underline what you wrote. Thanks, BruNoLoCc!
;-)
leporidus 2 years ago
Bruno,
So what if Atheists curse god? That does not mean they actually believe one exists. Fuck god, fuck Santa. They are both made made and I disagree wtih both.
Calling people idiots does not give more weight to your argument. It just makes you look like a typical intolerable christian.
locouru 2 years ago
I'm sorry they didn't adhere to the doctrine of your faith :)
delbert0504 1 year ago
I didn't know there was a doctrine Atheists adhere to. What is it called?
Atheists are not a group that stick together or a group that should agree on this and that. They just disbelieve a god exists. Why is that so hard to understand?
I don't know where you are getting this from. It is Christians who call other Christians "not true Christians". Atheists don't say that about other Atheists. How could they?
locouru 1 year ago
lol, and you didn't even get it. Your actually claiming an atheist was not a true atheist, or at least a good one. And atheism is a religion just as anything else is. You think because something like buddhism (i dunno they might have a god) doesn't have a god then are they not atheists? But they're a religion. My point is, I know atheists are much less ritualistic than a "religion" but many of the ideas of atheism and the way people follow it could be a religion, and your god: yourself.
delbert0504 1 year ago
now before you think I'm giving you a typical christian answer, let me ask you this. What is a god? it is something you worship, and what is worship? some people have this idea that it involves yelling praises out or going to church, but worship is simply giving something to whatever youre worshiping that it or they desire. If a person practices a certain lifestyle and believes that they have noone to answer to for that life style but themselves then they could be said to be worshiping themsel
delbert0504 1 year ago
Sorry, which Atheist did I claim wasn't a true Atheist and when?
Religion involves believing something. Atheism does not.
You said Atheism does not have a god but is still a religion like Buddhism and then you said the god of an Atheist is oneself. Which is it? Which one do I argue against?
You tell me what a god is. You believe in one. And I'll tell you if I agree that one might exist or not.
Who believes they have no one to answer to?
locouru 1 year ago
your missing my point, I'm simply explaining how it is similar. Do you think I'm really saying that worshiping oneself is on par with worshiping a super natural deity? And atheism is not believing in something eh? well last time I checked you believe there is no God, there is no such thing in my mind as non belief only counter beliefs. And you were refering to cs lewis and Kirk cameron. I'll post your quote in another comment.
delbert0504 1 year ago
"An ex-Atheist would know how an Atheist thinks. All these "ex-Atheists" I have come across don't have a clue what Atheism is.
Look at C.S Lewis and Kirk Cameron. " - locouru. Sounds to me like your saying they didn't know what atheism is so they weren't real atheists. Maybe i miss interpreted.
delbert0504 1 year ago
@delbert0504
I stand by what I said. But maybe you can explain it to me since I misunderstand. How can an Atheist, a person with no belief in a god, hate god?
These people can never appeal to an Atheist because that is not the position an Atheist holds. Maybe they were once Atheists. I just find it hard to comprehend how they could say such a thing. It makes no sense to me.
locouru 1 year ago
@locouru I guess he meant that he did not like the idea of an all loving God because he viewed it as incompatible with reality. I think that is what he resented. Since theism and Christianity in particular was the majority belief he felt so engulfed by these views that he resented them. If this does not make sense try imagining watching a movie in which you come to resent the main character because you don't like him. Is the character real? Either way it does not change how you feel.
hippo11222 1 year ago
@delbert0504
In other words, no true atheist ever becomes an ex-atheist.
And that's not at all dogmatic?
Atreus21 1 year ago
@Atreus21 i didn't say that, I'm quoting other people who are implying that
delbert0504 1 year ago
I thought C.S. Lewis had more mental acuteness than to fall for that. I just lost some respect for his legacy.
worldsworstjukebox 2 years ago
It's frustrating to be an atheist surfing Youtube. We keep coming across these videos that promise a convincing argument, but are nothing more than ten minutes of mumbo jumbo (like this one)
dave4248 2 years ago
check out some of the interesting lectures by Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Sagan, Degrass-Tyson, and Pinker, as well as some videos from TED or FORA TV.
NegativeNick 2 years ago
I've seen those men, Nick. They're brilliant. But these "Christians" are the ones that REALLY convince me my atheism is the correct way to be. They come up with these idiotic straw man patronizing answers to perfectly good questions. It's only then that I KNOW that atheism is the only correct divine truth.
dave4248 2 years ago
Amen. I keep waiting for someone to kick my ass, but it never comes.
worldsworstjukebox 2 years ago
Ever try asking one of them a question of your own? They give an answer that's patronizing at worst and at best,..nonsensical. They're like Ralph Wiggum (The Simpsons) but without the little kid charm.
dave4248 2 years ago
If he was angry at god then he was never much of an atheist. How can you be angry at something you don't think exists?
madhat2k 2 years ago 6
Good question. As far as I understand is that he was absent of a belief in God but not completely sure. If there may be one he had questionable doubts or even some anger at him.
01inChrististruelife 2 years ago
@madhat2k I think that was his point.
RighteousPaladin 1 year ago
@madhat2k
It was the realization of the consequences of creatures of reason, in a world without meaning, which makes Lewis "angry at God" for his non-existence, as understood by Atheists. Further, Lewis says in the video, "Why should creatures have the burden of existence forced on them without their consent?"
"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. . ." C.S. Lewis From Mere Christianity
JustKlippen 1 year ago
@JustKlippen so you see, because Lewis as an Atheist, believed God did not exist, he was "angry at God"(or the abstract idea of an all-good being) precisely for his absence in a universe where humans had the capacity to reason and would inevitably discover there is no meaning to the universe. This is more a statement about Atheism than his disbelief in the claim of any god.
JustKlippen 1 year ago
@madhat2k I think he was being ironic...
theytsejam 1 year ago
@madhat2k He was "angry at God for not existing"...this is known as having a wry sense of wit.
stu1002 1 year ago
@madhat2k
Hence why he converted
boomtastic67 1 year ago
@madhat2k
He was angry with God for not existing.
kutless45 1 year ago
@madhat2k He's describing his personal culture and subconscious state, not his cerebral arguments.
Glaither 1 year ago
@madhat2k sounds like most atheists to me. if you mention "God" many atheists blow up with rage inside. Hitchens book "God is not great" comes to mind.
lightbrownpoop 1 year ago
@madhat2k Lewis was using a paradoxical literal expression. He was certainly atheist prior to become a deist.
megaead69 1 year ago
and ive been told that all christians are unintellegent, i beg to differ.
devoceans 2 years ago
it depends, give an example of an intelligent creationist.
DecemberControversy 2 years ago
Jesus is Lord :)
TheDebate1 2 years ago
If (starting at 1:03) Lewis was living like (as if) an atheists, maintaining that god did not exist, then how could he honestly claim, in the same breath, that he was concurrently mad at god for not existing? Based on this, and other readings of Lewis' works, I feel Lewis NEVER was an atheist. Lewis may have questioned the existence of a god, (as most do) but I have never read or heard of him forthrightly abandon his belief in a god!
It's SAFE to abandon your' belief in a god!
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
Here is a breakdown from a like soul of Lewis. I am a former Atheist turned Theist. Whilst an Atheist, I was enveous of those with blind faith. I wondered,"why can I not have that? Why was I born with such an over analyzing mind?" It only took some philosophical thought to hit me...there is no more evidence against Gods existence than their is FOR its existence. It then comes down to a personal choice. I personally see to much beauty in the world to deny a God. However, I am not religious.
weareallanimals78 2 years ago
It says Wicca and atheist on your profile. If I were to guess you do not believe in the same type of god (the all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, perfect, jealous and vengeful God) that Lewis believed.
If you want to claim that nature or everything is a god, so be it. I just call nature nature, and everything everything!
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
I can assure you that Lewis did not believe in a vengeful God. It's a funny thing when people like Dawkins and others describe God as vengeful. They must have a high school understaning of God. I have never heard any theologian or theistic philosopher define God in such a way. These are people that know the material in depth. I have asked philosophers and theologians at the Univeristy of Dallas and Loyola about this trend and they laugh. I guess Sartre truly was the last honest atheist.
philtheo85 2 years ago
I meant vengeful in the same way many Christians mean from Biblical passages like //Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord//. Also I mean vengeance as describe about the God of the Old Testament that smited so many, and of the New Testament that is to be feared because his wrath is yet to come, etc. Dont be ridiculous!
I do stand corrected if vengeance is not an attribute of the God Lewis claimed he believed in. Im not sure what denomination with which he was affiliated.
Are you sure?
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
Lewis was a member of the Church of England. He was an Anglican. However, he was leaning very much towards the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, I believe had he been alive today he would have been Catholic. The Church of England, today, is not the same faith that Lewis believed in. Please remember that the scriptures are more than just statements. People against the bible are very naive about it's context. The bible is history, poetry, symbolism, theology, philosophy, narration, ect.
philtheo85 2 years ago
My main point I think still stands: Lewis was never an atheist in the sense that he denied the existence of a god. At best Lewis questioned whether there was a god and expressed anger at this god; while this might be doubt, it is not denial.
Many people in favor of the Bible are bias about its contents! The Bible is historical, poetic, symbolic, theological, philosophical and MYTHICAL, etc. The Bible is a mix of both true and false stories that have been passed down through time.
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
Thisis where we have to differ. Your position on certain parts of the bible must be mythical by default, otherwise you would be a believer. Your mythical is my philosophical. Example would be Job. I think we both would agree that Jod never existed. The difference here is that this ends the story with. For me it's an awesome philosophical lesson on suffering. God teaches us that life is suffering.
philtheo85 2 years ago
I dont think that Job is necessarily a myth; he could have been a real person. I think we both agree that Jesus was a real person who was crucified ancient Roman style. The main myth about the story of Job is that God and Satan (of the Bible) gambled with his life. One of the main myths about Jesus is that he resurrected from the dead after being crucified.
Job may have been a real person but the game played on him is mythical. Jesus probably was a real person but resurrection is a myth!
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
I find your logic a bit flawed. There is not one shred of evidence that Job existed. However, you say he "may have been a real person" and then you say Jesus "probably" was a real person. The evidence for the historicity of Christ is overwhelming. It's clear to me that your presupposition is that we live in a material existence. You are ready to accept Job as a real person with no evidence, however, not the God componant of the story. You do the same with Jesus.
philtheo85 2 years ago
Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that Job was real.
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
Relax. I never said that. I said that you are READY to ACCEPT.
philtheo85 2 years ago
AHH. Hope we can chat again. I have to pay some bills and then watch The Watchmen film. Good day!
philtheo85 2 years ago
I should clarify when I said //I dont think that Job is necessarily a myth; he could have been a real person//. I mean that Job is a myth and Jesus is probably not a myth. However, even if both were real, the supernaturalisms, or miracles, or out of this world events alleged to have been performed by or towards either of them are all myths! What reasons do we have to believe in the so-called //God component of the story//? It would be like saying since the Parthenon is a real, so is Athena!
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
I agree with you on most of what you said. The difference is that person of Jesus makes complete sense to me. I would recommend you read Walker Percy's Lost in the Cosmos, then read G.K. Chesterton's The Everlasting Man. My beliefs stem from an understanding of physics and philosophy, culminating in Catholic theology (I'm working on my Masters in theological studies). I think we both can agree that Zeus does not exist. We can go to Mount Olympus and prove it.
philtheo85 2 years ago
However, I do believe in God. I believe in a God that has given me both reason and faith to experience him. Again, I would suggest you read Lost in the Cosmos.
philtheo85 2 years ago
@JohnHasSeriousQ Job was a real man who really lived on this earth and died on this earth. He is also mentioned in the Quran (the islam or muslim holy book).
joshybumboshy 6 months ago
I would disagree with what you said about Lewis. I think he did reject the existence of God. However, I can see how his choice of words could make someone believe otherwise. I think Lewis expressed his anger in a very personal manner. He referred to God, even though he didn't believe. I constantly do the same thing with certain people I have never met. Lewis simply decided to write it down.
philtheo85 2 years ago
I obviously dont have time to read more apologetics just now, could you just tell me what was so convincing about them in a nutshell. I think it is irrelevant that both of us agree that Zeus does not exist because we could both be wrong. The Greek gods were alleged to have live in the spirit world on top of the clouds ABOVE Mt. Olympus. After all, you believe there is a god and believe there are none; at least one of us is very wrong! Study more about the fallacy of the excluded middle!
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
Thank you for the philosophical invitation. I am very familiar with the law of the excluded middle. I got my B.A in Philosophy from UNLV. You would be surprised how contested the law actually is. However, I think we both agree to it. We both suscribe to the law of non-contradiction.
philtheo85 2 years ago
Back to your question, I guess I would have to say, in a nutshell, my intellectual conversion began with something that C.S. Lewis said: "I believe in the sun just as I believe that the sun has risen, not because I can see it, but because by way of it I can see everything else." This was also my personal experience. Then when I read Walker Percy's Lost in the Cosmos, I was hooked. I could get into the physics and philosophy aspect of my belief, however, I don't believe in the philosopher's God.
philtheo85 2 years ago
I believe in the God that manifested himself as a human being. This is the God I defend. I will not defend mythical characters that never even existed (Zeus). P.S. Whether Zeus lived on Mount Olympus or above the earth is debatable. Homer argued that Zeus actually lived in a palace on the mountain. Either way Zeus and the others clearly made it the focal point for their earthly manifestations.
philtheo85 2 years ago
I messed up the lewis quote. I put the word sun instead of God. It should say: "I believe in GOD just as I believe that the sun has risen, not because I can see it, but because by way of it I can see everything else."
philtheo85 2 years ago
If you knew about the law of non-contradiction, often referred to as the law of the excluded middle then why did you try to dismiss the possibility that Zeus or Athena could be real simply because we agree? Would you admit that Zeus or Athena could be real, in spite of the fact we both hold they do not? After all, as you just stated, the Greek and Roman gods had earthly manifestations just like your God. I believe all gods are possible, but that not one is more likely to exist than any other.
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
You say you know a little philosophy. Hopefully you know where almost every great thinker about the god-concept will agree. From Socrates to Plato, from Augustine to Hume, from Aquinas to Russell, from Engels to Lewis, and from Dawkins to Craig, belief in a god is first and foremost contingent upon belief in a god. In order to believe in a god, one must first believe in a god. I know it sounds weird, but it is just that weird. Belief in a god is circular reasoning! How else could it be?
JohnHasSeriousQ 2 years ago
This is not the same as attributing "gods" to natural phenomenon, like Zeus or Poseidon. Quick note, how can belief in God be circular reasoning? I'm not using the existences of God as an argument to affirm his existence. I don't think you have a good grasp of what circular reasoning is. And please don't group Dawkins in the same group with Aquinas.
philtheo85 2 years ago
You can't compare the greatest philosopher (Aquinas) with Dawkins, a biologist/horrible philosopher. And how can you believe all "gods" are equally possible? That argument collapses on itself. The God of Einstein is very probable. The Gods of the Urantians is not. Are you denying this?
philtheo85 2 years ago
It's like saying that shooting yourself in the head might or might not produce damage. We know which is the more rational position. In fact, it's empiricaly verifiable. Gotta run. We can continue this tommorow! Good night.
philtheo85 2 years ago