@Knr911 I don't know. I mean, I think science has figured out how magnets, gravity and evolution works, but not how housework works. Maybe because often, it just doesn't occur. At least at my messy place. :)
@ChairmanNuke I'm not so sure that's true, but if so, do neighbours take on the extra 10%? "Scuse me, mind if my husband does your dishes tonight? Hey there, could you use a general vacuuming and a little lunch tomorrow?" :)
2. In the past, men were often passed over for promotion and had other career hurdles placed in his way if he was unmarried. These days however, your employer could care less whether you're married or not.
It's awesome to have a family wage job as a single man, especially now that the condo is paid off and I'm free of all debt. 30% of my take home pay covers all my spending (on everything) for the month. It's an awesome way to live. If I married though, I'd be poor.
@vention4wh Excellent! That's the best way to use the freedom. I have that same freedom too (although I'm female), and instead of getting stuck with a family, I've lived far better than if I had had people to support and/or people that I was caretaking for (cooking, cleaning, etc).
Hey, I want to make a new acronym. Just as men going their own way is MGTOW, I declare myself a WGTOW, with the change being 'women'!
There are enough others populating the world. My help's not needed. :)
Well said. Of course being independent means you have to depend on yourself for everything. Two people in a functioning marriage are actually more stable than a single person, since if one gets laid off there is often still an income coming in. As a single person you have to save more and be more careful of your spending than you might if you were married. Are you knocking out your debt and putting away money just in case you run into a job loss?
Owning your own modest home without any debt attached to it causes a huge increase in your financial security (although I had to bust my butt to get it paid off. It took 11 years of my life). Anyway I ran the numbers back in September and came up with 42 months. If I lost my job and didn't get unemployment, I could last 42 months before I had to sell the condo, raid the 401k, or go into debt.
@vention4wh Similar. Having a union job most of my life, plus getting a bit from my mother's death, means that I own my condo and am expecting a pension, so 'going my own way' so to speak, has been good for me in that way too. I'd be living on a lot less, and doing a lot more at-home work if I was raising a family at the same time as working. The idea of family raising has never appealed to me, and I've never wanted a husband either, so all is good. :)
I certainly agree for the most part but I'd like to add not all work is equal. Hard physical labor is not the same as being a receptionist for example (coming from a person who has done both).
@YesIamJames *edit just talking about physical demands not skill/expertise required. I do have a lot of respect for skilled receptionists, especially those who can audio type.
@YesIamJames Most of us aren't physically as strong as men so that's why there's more men in that work.
Studies are more & more showing that rather than there being sexism in who gets a job, that women are choosing jobs that have less hours (=less pay), which for a receptionist is just 8 hrs/day -no weekends or overtime
It's due to them taking on a fulltime job at home too, eg kids. Women who take jobs that are traditionally male, make the same amount of money or more when they put in the hours.
@ScentedNectar Of course but given equal hours I'd be more than happy to do the lion's share of the house work if I was a receptionist and my girlfriend was a landscape gardener for example.
I'm aware of Warren Farrell's work,but I hadn't thought about it from the perspective of women not taking on FT work because they feel like they have to be the ones doing the house work before.
@YesIamJames The name sounds familiar, but I don't know who Farrell is.
There are still a lot of women who do all or most of the housework, not realizing that the cage door is open. There is a choice now whether or not to be a housewife/husband, but some take on both home and outside work. If you like it great, but many don't. They complain about its unfairness, yet they are voluntarily doing it.
The ones who don't like it, think it's expected, and maybe it is, but they don't want to make waves.
@ScentedNectar Farrell is excellent, he did a lot of research which shows that the pay gap is nearly entirely explained by the choices men and women make in life.
He also showed that there was about 10 times more men who would be willing to be a house husband than there are women who would be happy to work while their husbands looked after the home.
Perhaps some of that could be due to women not trusting their husbands to do a decent job.
When I was married, my wife and I would do the cooking and dishes together. Then when we separated I did everything by myself because there was no maid around to do housework for me. I just made a really delicious rice & bean burrito all by myself and ate it. How clever is that? I mean it's not a big accomplishment for a man to do simple chores. It should just be taken for granted as something any normal person would do, like taking a shower or dressing yourself.
As a liberal 34 yr old male that does not agree with radical feminism, I totally agree with you ScentedNecar. Also, ironically, coming from a conservative Mexican Catholic upbringing, my father would always stress that a man should serve his wife and kids, not the other way around. The idea of a woman serving a man was portrayed as weak. My father would always help with the housework.
@40gabe I don't like to see either gender expected to serve the other. But it can work out ok if it's balanced out fairly with each person taking on different types of work, both cooking/housework and outside work for money.
Oh no, not in my house. It will be equal. And when it comes to kids, until I am ready to make that sacrifice, I am popping the pill, wrapping it up and/or keeping my legs closed.
@GrillonFilm1969 Grilly, my old friend, some are4 it, but others aren't. At least the latter have sig others to do it or they pay for someone once a week. I mean, we ALL hate it, but it's the only way to keep the mice out of our "microwaves" Ahem! You KNOW what that can lead to. :)
Housework? You mean like fixing the roof, mowing the lawn, exterminating pests, cleaning the gutters,painting the house, digging fencepost holes and other difficult tasks? I never see any women doing these types of "housework"
@jensen1971x No, not the once or twice a year stuff that sometimes men do on their own without hiring someone (many hire others). I mean all the DAILY cooking and cleaning. But I think you know that. The only exception in your list is mowing the lawn which most men will take on once every couple of weeks. The women do hours and hours of shitwork every day. If only he is working, then it's fair, but if they're both working a job for pay, then duh, they should split the cooking and cleaning too.
@jensen1971x If women choose to work full time and neglect their women's duties, that's their right, but it's unfair to ask the man to help you with them. Clearly the answer is for the woman to take the money she earns from her job and pay someone to do her housework for her, so long as she doesn't use any of the man's money to pay for it. Problem solved!
@jensen1971x Oh ok, I see you're an idiot who assumes women MUST do one thing by 'duty' and men MUST do a different thing by 'duty'. You're expecting a dishrag slave girl to always be ready to wipe your ugly bum, ain't you buddy?
You're blocked for being an obsolete asshole. Send any woman who's stupid enough to be with you my sympathies. I'll bet you're lousy in bed too.
I think there is also the issue of expectations; it then falls to women to actually talk to their partners about how the expectations of (the female) doing both, is unreasonable.
Currently, having no children and no job, I do the domestic chores. I'm starting school again now, so I'm hoping I'll be able to lean on my S.O. a bit so I can put my attention where I need it.
But long term, he's hoping to be the stay@home partner when we have children.
@PurpleGhost Thanks. :) I think you're right about having to be the one to bring it up if the expectation is there. That seems like it would be the hardest part. And probably many would worry about getting a bad reaction.
For instance, a few comments down from here is an asshole (the one with all the 1414's in his name) who says he'd LEAVE if she didn't do the cooking and cleaning. I got a little bit mad at him. :)
@TechPros101 You just got blocked for blatant stupidity and hostility. Go calm down and find your mommy, cuz you obviously are too manly to wipe your own butt. That there cleaning stuff is woman's work, dammit! :)
@AJ14141414141414 Well aren't you quite the catch - not. And isn't she quite the dishrag-doormat - yep. I'll bet you brag about beating her too, maybe about taking her money too.
If you were mine, I'd have booted your ugly butt to the curb long ago, loser-who-can't-take-care-of-himself. What are you, a baby or something, an invalid? She's probably too ugly to get someone better than you.
@ChairmanNuke Yeah, I know what you mean. I try and get out of my chair though, at least once a week, so that I won't turn into one of those news stories where the person's skin has attached to the chair fabric and both get taken to the hospital (after cutting a hole in the wall because the door is too small).
And to help you with that CN, I've tested/approved a tray of sammiches, but they're all the way across the room here if you want one. Hehehehehe (please don't demote me, ma'am)
@ChairmanNuke I know you're too busy to do housework, but I can be your male sex slave and do all the house work for you in the nude.Then when it gets dark, you can try out your new sexy time toys on me. Yeh I know it's politically incorrect for you to be a butch number but I won't tell anyone. It will be our little secret.
This is very true. Yes, it's sexist that women end up doing an unequal share of the housework, but it's not like in most cases men are twisting women's arms to do this. Rather, a lot of women take it upon themselves, especially if they perceive the men they live with to be poor housekeepers. And feminists then blame men for accepting this status quo? If women let the messes their men make stay messes, those men might take a hint and change their behavior.
@iamcuriousblue Another thing is that mothers should stop teaching ONLY their female kids cooking and cleaning. Otherwise those men might later take the hint just fine, but have no way to do it even though they want to.
Always thought the sensible thing was if both works . They should share the housework equally . If only one works . the person that stays home should do most of the housework . That's how it was at home when i grew up . It was not the norm of every household though
@WatcherAzrael Get together with similarly messy women. Me and Karen both live more like a stereotyped 'bachelor pad' level of cleanliness, but it's ok, since it's at a level we are both comfortable with. There are a lot of us messy women out there. It probably just shows less because so many women clean more than they really feel like doing, out of worry of social disapproval.
@ScentedNectar Aaron married me for that reason and many others, we're both pretty absent minded when it comes to housework at times and it doesn't bother him when I don't do something housework-y straight away
Ultimatums can work. My mother (who worked part-time) had enough of doing the cooking, so my father took over in that area. Mom continued to do most of the cleaning. I (the only child) washed the dishes.
This arrangement worked farily well I think, but it would never occurred without that initial push from mom.
@ScentedNectar My understanding of the situation (since I was a small kid at the time) is that there were discussions which culminated with the ultimatum.
Her position was that she and her son (me) were okay with eating sandwiches, while my dad insisted on hot meals. So he had to do it himself.
@simplytouched I'm not sure you'd want to tackle this place. Me and Karen balance things out, but we're both slobs, so you'd either run away screaming, or you'd want to take it on as a vast adventure. :)
@ScentedNectar Actually, it's not that bad though. Both of us had very messy places previously, but living together has resulted in us being far cleaner than when we lived apart. It's due to making rules like whose week is it to take trash to the chute each night, trash that otherwise on our own built up a long time before getting rid of. :D
@ScentedNectar As far as I'm aware yes, but it might just be me, I'll have to ask some of my friends & colleagues. I did live with some one for a while & I did all the housework & cooking (I need a rich widow, whom I can be a househubby for!)
@Nilsy1975 The rich part might be hard to find, but you'd make a great husband for a woman who wants an outside career. There would be a balance of each doing some of the work. Her, the income work, you household work. :)
Women I've known have this thing where they make the domestic environment their domain. You come home one evening and find things like rugs or lampshades appearing and those hideous thick curtains they always try and stick on the bedroom window. Then the arguments start over the details:
"No, the pornography is arranged by genre not date!"
and
"The life size picture of Mika Osawa on the ceiling over the bed is their for a purpose, it stays!!!"
@KnockoffNigeI Well yeaaahh, of course it's genre over date. She's right on that one. :P
Me and Karen have a rule that anything decorative in the common spaces have to be ok with both of us. In our own rooms though, we each have total dictatorship power. :D
@ScentedNectar Yeah decorations, used to have the same problem when I was in shared accommodation. Every January it would be the same tedious argument, the Playboy or Penthouse calender. I often wonder if in the same circumstances women would have the same problem, I can't imagine choosing between fluffy kittens and cute ponies inspiring similar passions.
@KnockoffNigeI Ugh, to hell with icky stuffed animals. I don't understand why any adult woman would have those. Creeps me the fuck out, like they are trying to infantalize themselves in some sort of desire to be seen as naive or cutesy-stupid or something.
I'll just stick to better arguments like your idea, only with naked men instead. I'll argue that I only want 'happy' photos on the calendar, no boring, artsy fartsy 'limp' photos. :D
@ScentedNectar Coincidentally the subject of infantilization came to my mind when I examined the rather poor offerings for this years calenders. Not a decent bush in sight and the amount of silicone that comes spilling out, had me thinking that the target audience must be suffering oral fixation. Left me with a certain nostalgia for the sweaty overhang and abundant foliage of yesteryear. So I suppose that makes me the one looking for the Calender with furry things on it, the irony's too much.
@rosskay Well, that certainly seems like a lot less work than trying to keep such a curvy, foldy area shaved all the time. I hope that catches on enough that people get used to pubic hair again, even if it is in a few new designer colours. As I approach the age of 49 this November, my own 'down there' regions have begun to give me a couple of surprisingly silver coloured hairs, but I like the contrast and I'm not going to dye them. :)
@userono Hmm, that's not bad. Things were on shelves, and therefore off the floor I'm assuming. But what I really need to know, is, are you willing to do windows? It's hard to find good help these days willing to clean those. :D
@valeriereified Me and Karen are also slobs, but strangely, by living together, we each pick up after ourselves way more frequently than when we lived apart. The place is still pretty messy by most people's standards, but not quite to the point of being the tornado aftermaths we used to each have. :)
@ScentedNectar Well it doesn't have a schedule, but you assign point values to each task and you could have an agreement that a certain number of points equals a certain number of dollars at the end of the month... (my roomies refused the second part because they 'didn't want me to be their maid' but then they refused to do the work... you do need to pre-arrange these things on the off chance you're going to be living with dicks/twats.
@valeriereified I like a taking turns type of schedule, Pre-arranging things has worked out great for me and Karen so far. The place would have been looking like a post-tornado zone by now if we didn't do that.
@simplytouched Well, um, you lost me at the bleeding part, but having a choice HAS to include the choice to do what was formerly expected (with no choice involved). In your case, your choice is the housework for some very good reasons. None of your reasons are for fear of society's disapproval either. :)
well I don't work so this doesn't really apply to me and my husband but even though I'm the partner who does the housework atm (we're not having kids I'm just awaiting a decision on a work permit) he still does dishes sometimes or takes the trash out and helps with laundry if he's around when I'm doing it. On the weekends he cooks and its a really good arrangement because neither of us are saddled with all the housework.
@KrissytheWorldWithin It applies, and it sounds like you're doing it in a fair way. If one is doing the income work and the other is doing the housework, that can be every bit as balanced as if they were each doing some income and some housework. Lots of different combos that are balanced. I was referring more to people who both have similarly houred income jobs, where on top of that, she *additionally* takes on all the housework. That boggles my mind a bit. And inspired a rant vid. :)
@ScentedNectar Yeah I don't demand that he do absolutely fifty percent of the work and he doesn't make that demand of me, we just both try not to take advantage of each other, we live within our means and we're happy with that. When I start working we'll figure out a new way to work things out, we're good at comprising and coming up solutions so I don't forsee it being a problem, especially since my husband is super enthusiastic for me to start working and go back to school.
@KrissytheWorldWithin Never mind work and school, I want you to run for office here in Canada. Free pot, free Marc, end the corporate harperized corruption and their planned prison increase of slave labour. To start with anyways. Then, I'm sure there'll be other stuff for you to fix please. Thanx in advance. :)
@ScentedNectar Me running for office would be possibly the worst idea ever, I'm too much of an asshole, I think I'd do more damage than good in that capacity, I have much more freedom and ability in the advocacy side of things, I can be an asshole and an advocate, people expect that. I'm on the record saying too many radical things to be accepted as a politician though.
@ScentedNectar imagine the headline: "by a landslide of write in votes Krissy McPatriarchy, sex worker's rights and marijuana activist American socialist is voted into office".
It depends on the type of people you are. If you're both working shlubs, it should be shared. If he's a workaholic pulling in $250,000 year, I don't think he's going to care to do the laundry when he gets home and you shouldn't marry someone like this if you don't want to take care of the home stuff. I also think women are less likely to tolerate a mess, so they do it because men don't even notice half the time.
@TruTV I agree with you they are less willing to tolerate messes and want more things done, this is exactly where a lot of overfunctioning comes from. We want men to do certain things they don't and we fill in for the space and the vacuum, and like scented nectar is saying we go and do it on our own. We also overfunction because of basic needs not being met in relationships. Thats why I don't see this as a gender-role issue, its more of a relationship problem.
@TruTV As long as it works out somewhat balanced regardless of who is doing the money work and who is doing the unpaid work, it's good. If she's not working for income, then it's only fair that she should take on the unpaid work.
Totally agree. Great video. My Mom did most of the housework in our family when I was growing up, and Dad took care of the yard work and external house maintenance, largely on the weekend. He was employed, she was not. That changed when he lost his job and she had to go to work - she put her foot down and insisted he begin doing the housework - this was circa 1978, and it impressed me that she stood up for what was fair and just. I helped out, too, and took care of the kids (cont'd)...
...(my brothers and sisters) and helped with cooking the evening meal, too. Once I married, though, I was not only the only one working, but eventually took over the bulk of the housework and cooking. My wife wasn't employed, but came from a bkgnd of privilege and hated doing it. I used to chafe at this arrangement, but now it's become a necessity for me to carry on with it. I'm okay with that.
I should qualify this to say that, while my wife did take care of much of the housework initially in our marriage, she always hated cooking and, given the quality of her work in the kitchen, we were better off with me handling that anyway. (lol) Also, she wasn't too hot at some things inside the house, so helping her out made things go better. Eventually, though, I did have to take over everything - since it's just her and myself, I'm okay with it.
Oh, one thing I suggest might be worth a read if for no reason other than to have a short, cogent argument on this type of labor distribution; it's by Bertrand Russell and is titled "In Praise of Idleness". I think his analysis would quite easily translate to this topic, if it doesn't already expressly entail it.
@integralmath I'll look that up. I know little about BR, except that I saw a video of him saying something beautiful about sticking to the truth even if you think the lie would better society. That was a total paraphrase by the way. :)
You need at least a little bit of mess, or it feels like no one lives there. I am a slob by nature, but I live with someone who is equally a slob. We've worked things out to keep it at a level which is good for us, but which probably would not be clean enough for other people.
@goxster oh yes indeed. This obsession some have with hygiene is, well quite frankly, batshit crazy. Seem likes the companies that make cleaning products have done a fantastic marketing job.
@integralmath Well, I hope that while they are doing their outside work for money, their husbands are cooking and taking care of the kids and cleaning. :)
No matter who I share a residence with I attempt to equally share the work load or negotiate a settlement that both of us favor. Assignment of work load to a female (due to conditioning or unwillingness to question belief systems ) shows unwillingness for advancement.
On the flip side, I think it is contemptibly narrow in outlook to mislabel females who enjoys being domestic (and live with a male) as traitors to her sisters, etc.
@EuphoricImpact Good point. If it's to be a choice, then one must also be free to choose either of the things that used to be either mandatory or previously forbidden. Some women authentically DO enjoy it, just like some men do.
@GodlessManitoban As you're typing? Can't be vacuuming unless you have one of those gadgets that travels around on its own and which cats like to chase? :)
Oh wait a minute, are you typing with one hand right now, or both?
I usually ask people the above sentence under, well, very different circumstances. :D
My husband isn't working right now and I have two jobs, so I make the money and he does everything else. Inside house work and outside. When he was employed we took turns cleaning and cooking. He was always in charge of the dishes and I was always in charge of laundry (I don't like the way he folds shit) :P He was in charge of the lawn and I was in charge of the bushes and trees. I have more experience with heavy equipment (trimmers, saws and such) :0)
if women are doing all the housework, then you know the man isnt taking a very forward moving role in negotiation either... I sympathtize when they say " if I don't do it he never will."
We overfunction a lot, and most men really have no idea... we make it very easy for them to get lazy- fast.
@rosskay "We overfunction a lot, and most men really have no idea... we make it very easy for them to get lazy- fast."~rosskay
This is an interesting view. I do not share it. I have never, in my experience, seen a woman make it easy for a man. I have seen her make poor decisions that allows her to function in a manner that is not befitting of her goals. Many men I know understand that a great companion is golden. It is easy to mislabel men with the qualifier "most".
@EuphoricImpact it really is as simple as that. Lazy does not just apply to the physical work, Lazy also means lazy in leading relationships, emotional work, and many other things. Its easy to become lazy, when you have others willing to work for you.
@EuphoricImpact also many men are clueless, even if willing to do more. women also don't know how to cue men or inspire them to do otherwise either, and a lot of men grow up watching their mom's do everything and play multiple roles all at once. at the same time, these mothers use their sons in a way to replace their husbands emotionally, and men will do more work around the house for example, but have no clue for example on relate and meet womens needs on a deep level
@rosskay I do not know if you insist on using the word "many" to be spiteful, but no worries. I am not emotionally invested in that. You may have anecdotal evidence that points to this. I do not think there is proof that will substantiate your claim.
However some men are clueless as some women are clueless that see men as wallets. After all it is the same function. One benefits from at the cost of another. I grew up watching my mom do housework, but she also insisted that I
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) do housework. I know many men who shared this experience. They also help there significant other. So, along with the women allowing this they should be mindful of not raising a male child without domestic expectations. Meeting a woman needs is (assuming the male is not antiquated in his thinking) proportional to the woman making her needs know to the male.
@EuphoricImpact I find it interesting that even though in all my comments I pin responsibility on women and mothers, you take this personal against men. (!)
@rosskay Sorry but I do not take it personally against men. Some people see things differently than others. Your intention was what it was. However my interpretation, or the manner I wanted to address it is my prerogative. No big deal.
@EuphoricImpact a lot of men really are clueless as to "how" we make them lazy. I don't feel spite at all when I type that, I had thought that before you even typed to me. There is plenty of "proof" to "substantiate" my claim, and I also speak from real world experience and observation. Part of this damage did in fact come from the feminist movement.
@rosskay "a lot of men really are clueless as to "how" we make them lazy"~rosskay
No one makes another lazy. It is a choice whether a man goes down this path.
"There is plenty of "proof" to "substantiate" my claim, and I also speak from real world experience and observation."~ rosskay
That is your take but no there is not. You used the word many and for that you would have to have a defined range. Then you would have to account for all of the men outside of your experience. Whatever.
@EuphoricImpact Yes, others do contribute to others laziness. If a capitalist fat-cat profiting off his employees gets lazy and never has to do work until the workers revolt, the workers are contributing to the bosses' laziness and oppression over them until they become class conscious and act upon it. Women have a lot of power over how men behave around them, but many overfunction and are not conscious of it. We are taught to do all these things too! It conflicts with a lot of men's needs too
@EuphoricImpact If I or another woman see a man as a "wallet" as you put it, which by I would say many women have needs for men to not treat money like water and be generous to them: I would say she is not clueless, she in fact knows what she wants and needs.
@rosskay There is a difference in having a need versus using another. Unless they are into that...in which case it is still a decision made via a negotiation or by informed decision process.
If a woman desires to have money spent on her then all she has to do is informed the man. If he agrees great, if not then if that is her value she can move on...no issue with this. However, (no offense meant) it appears you are advocating something that does not appear to be above board. If I am
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) incorrect do forgive me as it is not my intention to insult.
I would hope the woman is not "clueless" as this will make the man unable to provide what she needs (within reason). It is my opinion many women do not do such a great job at honestly communicating their expectations, needs and wants. If both parties are honest with each other then several of the issues we addressed would not be a concern.
@EuphoricImpact that feminine power I speak of left me on the receiving end of nuclearnight's passive agressive bullshit, when I offered to help through my own personal grassroots efforts in helping women in relationships and thier own personal power and making changes in their life. nuclernight would have it no other way of course, than to blame men and force them to change. I was labeled as anti-feminist and cowtowing to the dick
@EuphoricImpact their priveledge and patriarch theory as it stands (and if you even want it to call it "theory", which is more like loose hypothesis that was never actually thought out to it's logical conclusions) has to go.
@EuphoricImpact you can't know what im advocating by a comment section alone or know all my opinions or understanding of these dynamics between men and women in relationships
@rosskay Of course I can not...nor do I need to...I am addressing only what is in front of me. I have no need to make value judgements. I do not know you.
@EuphoricImpact I offered to discuss and help develop feminist politics and help women through a group that used to be here on YT started by dianaboston
@alienbaroque not really, it really is simple negotiation. some people really still assocaite it witn gender roles and women are stuck overfunctioning. We are essentially taught to *not* just be.
@rosskay to top it off, other women harp on us when we don't do stuff for men, and god forbid, let them be adults. I can't tell you how many of my female friends and my own mother cut me down for letting my bf do all the dishes.
@rosskay I'm lucky because my grandma taught me that a guy who doesn't help around the house is worthless in a partnership. If you live in a space with someone you owe it to them to contribute to the housework. I've certainly had female friends reprimand me for not jumping every time a man needs a drink or whatever. My husbands a grown man, he can get his own damn beer thank you.
@KrissytheWorldWithin You might like the very funny song I linked to in the desc bar. One part has that very situation of him expecting his beers served to him.
@alienbaroque when i think of rubber meeting the road i think of putting "theory into practice" I can speak from personal experience and otherwise that it really is seperate from the roles themselves.
@rosskay I see the asking of the question as leading directly to self-examination (if asked honestly), which is, for me, where the tires hit the asphalt.
Fucking housework, how does it work? :)
Knr911 1 week ago
@Knr911 I don't know. I mean, I think science has figured out how magnets, gravity and evolution works, but not how housework works. Maybe because often, it just doesn't occur. At least at my messy place. :)
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
that's nice hun, now where's my sandwich?
CrimeComunismFagotry 1 week ago
@CrimeComunismFagotry I don't know. Where'd you put them after you made them? Don't forget I'd like extra cheese on mine. Thanks. :P
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
Comrade KrissytheWorldWithin forces her hubby to do 110% of the chores. Your Glorious Chairman™ approves.
ChairmanNuke 1 week ago
@ChairmanNuke I'm not so sure that's true, but if so, do neighbours take on the extra 10%? "Scuse me, mind if my husband does your dishes tonight? Hey there, could you use a general vacuuming and a little lunch tomorrow?" :)
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
@ScentedNectar Math is mental masturbation.
ChairmanNuke 1 week ago
@ChairmanNuke Hmm, well, as long as it gets me there, I'm fine with that. :D
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
I slammed the cage door years ago, locked it and threw away the key. I won't want some woman to sneak into it and then start complaining about it.
The greatest thing about feminism is that it frees men from society's oppression of men by demanding that they support an unappreciative bitchy wife.
I have no expectation of being treated fairly in a relationship so like millions of other men, I've become unavailable.
vention4wh 1 week ago
2. In the past, men were often passed over for promotion and had other career hurdles placed in his way if he was unmarried. These days however, your employer could care less whether you're married or not.
It's awesome to have a family wage job as a single man, especially now that the condo is paid off and I'm free of all debt. 30% of my take home pay covers all my spending (on everything) for the month. It's an awesome way to live. If I married though, I'd be poor.
vention4wh 1 week ago
@vention4wh Excellent! That's the best way to use the freedom. I have that same freedom too (although I'm female), and instead of getting stuck with a family, I've lived far better than if I had had people to support and/or people that I was caretaking for (cooking, cleaning, etc).
Hey, I want to make a new acronym. Just as men going their own way is MGTOW, I declare myself a WGTOW, with the change being 'women'!
There are enough others populating the world. My help's not needed. :)
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
@ScentedNectar
Well said. Of course being independent means you have to depend on yourself for everything. Two people in a functioning marriage are actually more stable than a single person, since if one gets laid off there is often still an income coming in. As a single person you have to save more and be more careful of your spending than you might if you were married. Are you knocking out your debt and putting away money just in case you run into a job loss?
vention4wh 1 week ago
Well said - 2
Owning your own modest home without any debt attached to it causes a huge increase in your financial security (although I had to bust my butt to get it paid off. It took 11 years of my life). Anyway I ran the numbers back in September and came up with 42 months. If I lost my job and didn't get unemployment, I could last 42 months before I had to sell the condo, raid the 401k, or go into debt.
watch?v=WhR9ibwSW4M
Are you taking steps in this direction too?
vention4wh 1 week ago
@vention4wh Similar. Having a union job most of my life, plus getting a bit from my mother's death, means that I own my condo and am expecting a pension, so 'going my own way' so to speak, has been good for me in that way too. I'd be living on a lot less, and doing a lot more at-home work if I was raising a family at the same time as working. The idea of family raising has never appealed to me, and I've never wanted a husband either, so all is good. :)
ScentedNectar 1 week ago
I certainly agree for the most part but I'd like to add not all work is equal. Hard physical labor is not the same as being a receptionist for example (coming from a person who has done both).
YesIamJames 3 weeks ago
@YesIamJames *edit just talking about physical demands not skill/expertise required. I do have a lot of respect for skilled receptionists, especially those who can audio type.
YesIamJames 3 weeks ago
@YesIamJames Most of us aren't physically as strong as men so that's why there's more men in that work.
Studies are more & more showing that rather than there being sexism in who gets a job, that women are choosing jobs that have less hours (=less pay), which for a receptionist is just 8 hrs/day -no weekends or overtime
It's due to them taking on a fulltime job at home too, eg kids. Women who take jobs that are traditionally male, make the same amount of money or more when they put in the hours.
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
@ScentedNectar Of course but given equal hours I'd be more than happy to do the lion's share of the house work if I was a receptionist and my girlfriend was a landscape gardener for example.
I'm aware of Warren Farrell's work,but I hadn't thought about it from the perspective of women not taking on FT work because they feel like they have to be the ones doing the house work before.
YesIamJames 3 weeks ago
@YesIamJames The name sounds familiar, but I don't know who Farrell is.
There are still a lot of women who do all or most of the housework, not realizing that the cage door is open. There is a choice now whether or not to be a housewife/husband, but some take on both home and outside work. If you like it great, but many don't. They complain about its unfairness, yet they are voluntarily doing it.
The ones who don't like it, think it's expected, and maybe it is, but they don't want to make waves.
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
@ScentedNectar Farrell is excellent, he did a lot of research which shows that the pay gap is nearly entirely explained by the choices men and women make in life.
He also showed that there was about 10 times more men who would be willing to be a house husband than there are women who would be happy to work while their husbands looked after the home.
Perhaps some of that could be due to women not trusting their husbands to do a decent job.
YesIamJames 3 weeks ago
@YesIamJames Could be. Some women (and some men) are very fussy about housework details and want to be the one doing it.
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
CBF I'm afraid. I'll wait til it all goes to shit, and then clean it up later.
FantasmaBAnco 3 weeks ago
@FantasmaBAnco That works too. Well, as long as CBF doesn't mind. :)
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
I watch deh hole theng.... yay..scoopy dooo luch box
RetardElla 3 weeks ago
@RetardElla I'd be rich if I still had the lunch boxes I had as a kid. :)
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
When I was married, my wife and I would do the cooking and dishes together. Then when we separated I did everything by myself because there was no maid around to do housework for me. I just made a really delicious rice & bean burrito all by myself and ate it. How clever is that? I mean it's not a big accomplishment for a man to do simple chores. It should just be taken for granted as something any normal person would do, like taking a shower or dressing yourself.
prschuster 3 weeks ago
@prschuster I think both sexes should learn the basics of caring for oneself. It's just common sense.
Now you have me thinking about bean burritos, and I'm hungry. Arghh! At least a pizza is due in about 10 minutes. :)
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
Win-win solutions: Hire some help!
Laursaurus 3 months ago
@Laursaurus :D
ScentedNectar 3 months ago
As a liberal 34 yr old male that does not agree with radical feminism, I totally agree with you ScentedNecar. Also, ironically, coming from a conservative Mexican Catholic upbringing, my father would always stress that a man should serve his wife and kids, not the other way around. The idea of a woman serving a man was portrayed as weak. My father would always help with the housework.
40gabe 3 months ago
@40gabe I don't like to see either gender expected to serve the other. But it can work out ok if it's balanced out fairly with each person taking on different types of work, both cooking/housework and outside work for money.
ScentedNectar 3 months ago
Oh no, not in my house. It will be equal. And when it comes to kids, until I am ready to make that sacrifice, I am popping the pill, wrapping it up and/or keeping my legs closed.
icky8vicky 3 months ago
@icky8vicky That's the smart way to go about it. :)
ScentedNectar 3 months ago
@GrillonFilm1969 Grilly, my old friend, some are4 it, but others aren't. At least the latter have sig others to do it or they pay for someone once a week. I mean, we ALL hate it, but it's the only way to keep the mice out of our "microwaves" Ahem! You KNOW what that can lead to. :)
ScentedNectar 3 months ago
Housework? You mean like fixing the roof, mowing the lawn, exterminating pests, cleaning the gutters,painting the house, digging fencepost holes and other difficult tasks? I never see any women doing these types of "housework"
jensen1971x 4 months ago
@jensen1971x No, not the once or twice a year stuff that sometimes men do on their own without hiring someone (many hire others). I mean all the DAILY cooking and cleaning. But I think you know that. The only exception in your list is mowing the lawn which most men will take on once every couple of weeks. The women do hours and hours of shitwork every day. If only he is working, then it's fair, but if they're both working a job for pay, then duh, they should split the cooking and cleaning too.
ScentedNectar 4 months ago
@jensen1971x If women choose to work full time and neglect their women's duties, that's their right, but it's unfair to ask the man to help you with them. Clearly the answer is for the woman to take the money she earns from her job and pay someone to do her housework for her, so long as she doesn't use any of the man's money to pay for it. Problem solved!
jensen1971x 4 months ago
@jensen1971x Oh ok, I see you're an idiot who assumes women MUST do one thing by 'duty' and men MUST do a different thing by 'duty'. You're expecting a dishrag slave girl to always be ready to wipe your ugly bum, ain't you buddy?
You're blocked for being an obsolete asshole. Send any woman who's stupid enough to be with you my sympathies. I'll bet you're lousy in bed too.
ScentedNectar 4 months ago
I've come to realize, I think I mainly like listening to you talk than like the subject matter itself. Long time =D
darklight203 4 months ago
@darklight203 That's ok. I don't thing that you have to like everything about anything, including my vids. :D
ScentedNectar 4 months ago
I agree, & I very much like this video.
I think there is also the issue of expectations; it then falls to women to actually talk to their partners about how the expectations of (the female) doing both, is unreasonable.
Currently, having no children and no job, I do the domestic chores. I'm starting school again now, so I'm hoping I'll be able to lean on my S.O. a bit so I can put my attention where I need it.
But long term, he's hoping to be the stay@home partner when we have children.
PurpleGhost 4 months ago
@PurpleGhost Thanks. :) I think you're right about having to be the one to bring it up if the expectation is there. That seems like it would be the hardest part. And probably many would worry about getting a bad reaction.
For instance, a few comments down from here is an asshole (the one with all the 1414's in his name) who says he'd LEAVE if she didn't do the cooking and cleaning. I got a little bit mad at him. :)
ScentedNectar 4 months ago
@ScentedNectar 14 & 88 are nazi numbers. Maybe that explains something about AJ14,,,,,
prschuster 3 weeks ago
@prschuster I recently heard about 88, but i didn't know about 14.
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
@ScentedNectar H is the 8th letter in the alphabet, so 88 stands for Heil Hitler. N is the 14th letter. Maybe that's for Nazi?
prschuster 3 weeks ago
lmao so know i realise the dumbass who tries scaring everyone with the BBQ vid a stupid feminist whore, well that gives me more reason to hate you
TechPros101 5 months ago
@TechPros101 You just got blocked for blatant stupidity and hostility. Go calm down and find your mommy, cuz you obviously are too manly to wipe your own butt. That there cleaning stuff is woman's work, dammit! :)
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
@AJ14141414141414 Well aren't you quite the catch - not. And isn't she quite the dishrag-doormat - yep. I'll bet you brag about beating her too, maybe about taking her money too.
If you were mine, I'd have booted your ugly butt to the curb long ago, loser-who-can't-take-care-of-himself. What are you, a baby or something, an invalid? She's probably too ugly to get someone better than you.
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
Housework? I never leave the computer. My activism is just too important.
ChairmanNuke 5 months ago
@ChairmanNuke Yeah, I know what you mean. I try and get out of my chair though, at least once a week, so that I won't turn into one of those news stories where the person's skin has attached to the chair fabric and both get taken to the hospital (after cutting a hole in the wall because the door is too small).
And to help you with that CN, I've tested/approved a tray of sammiches, but they're all the way across the room here if you want one. Hehehehehe (please don't demote me, ma'am)
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
@ScentedNectar It's okay, I'll get one of my castrated sexually repressed male e-slaves to get it for me. I think it's Ilikenuman's turn.
ChairmanNuke 5 months ago
@ChairmanNuke Make sure he washes his hands first. Repressed or not, you still don't know where they've been. :)
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
Comment removed
prschuster 3 weeks ago
@ChairmanNuke I know you're too busy to do housework, but I can be your male sex slave and do all the house work for you in the nude.Then when it gets dark, you can try out your new sexy time toys on me. Yeh I know it's politically incorrect for you to be a butch number but I won't tell anyone. It will be our little secret.
prschuster 3 weeks ago
@prschuster Careful, I suspect she may be a rather difficult one to service. She probably won't even give you lunch breaks. :)
ScentedNectar 3 weeks ago
This is very true. Yes, it's sexist that women end up doing an unequal share of the housework, but it's not like in most cases men are twisting women's arms to do this. Rather, a lot of women take it upon themselves, especially if they perceive the men they live with to be poor housekeepers. And feminists then blame men for accepting this status quo? If women let the messes their men make stay messes, those men might take a hint and change their behavior.
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@iamcuriousblue Another thing is that mothers should stop teaching ONLY their female kids cooking and cleaning. Otherwise those men might later take the hint just fine, but have no way to do it even though they want to.
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
Always thought the sensible thing was if both works . They should share the housework equally . If only one works . the person that stays home should do most of the housework . That's how it was at home when i grew up . It was not the norm of every household though
Tobbena 6 months ago
@Tobbena I kind of hope that it's becoming the norm. :)
ScentedNectar 5 months ago
One problem: what if we menfolk genuinely don't care about the house being a mess?
WatcherAzrael 6 months ago
@WatcherAzrael Get together with similarly messy women. Me and Karen both live more like a stereotyped 'bachelor pad' level of cleanliness, but it's ok, since it's at a level we are both comfortable with. There are a lot of us messy women out there. It probably just shows less because so many women clean more than they really feel like doing, out of worry of social disapproval.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Aaron married me for that reason and many others, we're both pretty absent minded when it comes to housework at times and it doesn't bother him when I don't do something housework-y straight away
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
Ultimatums can work. My mother (who worked part-time) had enough of doing the cooking, so my father took over in that area. Mom continued to do most of the cleaning. I (the only child) washed the dishes.
This arrangement worked farily well I think, but it would never occurred without that initial push from mom.
gumdeo 6 months ago
@gumdeo Without speaking up, nothing changes. Was it argued until there was an ultimatum needed, or did he hear her out and then agree to it?
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar My understanding of the situation (since I was a small kid at the time) is that there were discussions which culminated with the ultimatum.
Her position was that she and her son (me) were okay with eating sandwiches, while my dad insisted on hot meals. So he had to do it himself.
gumdeo 6 months ago
great video btw!!
nicanicabad 6 months ago
Me and only me. I married Little Lord Fontleroi.
But I also don't have a job-and in all fairness do in a 10 of the times as he would.
If I don't cook--I don't cook--it's that easy. Then we snack.
nicanicabad 6 months ago
@nicanicabad Thanks. :) It sounds like it balances out well for you since you don't also have an outside job.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@simplytouched I'm not sure you'd want to tackle this place. Me and Karen balance things out, but we're both slobs, so you'd either run away screaming, or you'd want to take it on as a vast adventure. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Actually, it's not that bad though. Both of us had very messy places previously, but living together has resulted in us being far cleaner than when we lived apart. It's due to making rules like whose week is it to take trash to the chute each night, trash that otherwise on our own built up a long time before getting rid of. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
The hubby and I share. :)
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 6 months ago
@YeOldeHeretic That's the best, when neither person is taking on more than they should, and it's nice and balanced. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
This must be an American/Canadian thing, as here in England men & women share in the housework/gardening.
Nilsy1975 6 months ago
@Nilsy1975 The cooking too? I always assumed that England had pretty much the same gender role divisions as we do here.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar As far as I'm aware yes, but it might just be me, I'll have to ask some of my friends & colleagues. I did live with some one for a while & I did all the housework & cooking (I need a rich widow, whom I can be a househubby for!)
Nilsy1975 6 months ago
@Nilsy1975 The rich part might be hard to find, but you'd make a great husband for a woman who wants an outside career. There would be a balance of each doing some of the work. Her, the income work, you household work. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Agreed & thank you.
Nilsy1975 6 months ago
er kowtowing*
rosskay 6 months ago
Women I've known have this thing where they make the domestic environment their domain. You come home one evening and find things like rugs or lampshades appearing and those hideous thick curtains they always try and stick on the bedroom window. Then the arguments start over the details:
"No, the pornography is arranged by genre not date!"
and
"The life size picture of Mika Osawa on the ceiling over the bed is their for a purpose, it stays!!!"
KnockoffNigeI 6 months ago
@KnockoffNigeI Well yeaaahh, of course it's genre over date. She's right on that one. :P
Me and Karen have a rule that anything decorative in the common spaces have to be ok with both of us. In our own rooms though, we each have total dictatorship power. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Yeah decorations, used to have the same problem when I was in shared accommodation. Every January it would be the same tedious argument, the Playboy or Penthouse calender. I often wonder if in the same circumstances women would have the same problem, I can't imagine choosing between fluffy kittens and cute ponies inspiring similar passions.
KnockoffNigeI 6 months ago
@KnockoffNigeI Ugh, to hell with icky stuffed animals. I don't understand why any adult woman would have those. Creeps me the fuck out, like they are trying to infantalize themselves in some sort of desire to be seen as naive or cutesy-stupid or something.
I'll just stick to better arguments like your idea, only with naked men instead. I'll argue that I only want 'happy' photos on the calendar, no boring, artsy fartsy 'limp' photos. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Coincidentally the subject of infantilization came to my mind when I examined the rather poor offerings for this years calenders. Not a decent bush in sight and the amount of silicone that comes spilling out, had me thinking that the target audience must be suffering oral fixation. Left me with a certain nostalgia for the sweaty overhang and abundant foliage of yesteryear. So I suppose that makes me the one looking for the Calender with furry things on it, the irony's too much.
KnockoffNigeI 6 months ago
@KnockoffNigeI I'm hoping that pubic hair comes back into fashion. Mostly because it's a huge chore to try and shave that stuff.
scentednectar(dot)blogspot(dot)com/2011/01/shave-my-crotch-no-way-forget-it(dot)html
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar it is in actually... coloring it is growing in trend too! Google "fun betty"
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay Well, that certainly seems like a lot less work than trying to keep such a curvy, foldy area shaved all the time. I hope that catches on enough that people get used to pubic hair again, even if it is in a few new designer colours. As I approach the age of 49 this November, my own 'down there' regions have begun to give me a couple of surprisingly silver coloured hairs, but I like the contrast and I'm not going to dye them. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
hi, scentednectar
i'm looking for employment as a housemaid
so i made a video to display my snappy housemaid skills for all the world to marvel at
/watch?v=AksdgmfNuAU
userono 6 months ago
@userono Hmm, that's not bad. Things were on shelves, and therefore off the floor I'm assuming. But what I really need to know, is, are you willing to do windows? It's hard to find good help these days willing to clean those. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
My girlfriend and I have solved this problem by being incredibly lazy.
valeriereified 6 months ago
@valeriereified lol thumbs up!
rosskay 6 months ago
@valeriereified Me and Karen are also slobs, but strangely, by living together, we each pick up after ourselves way more frequently than when we lived apart. The place is still pretty messy by most people's standards, but not quite to the point of being the tornado aftermaths we used to each have. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
I recommend using a site called 'Chore Wars' to evenly divide tasks... it's good to have something measurable when one is trying to divide the work.
valeriereified 6 months ago
@valeriereified I'm going to check that out. It gives it some structure when there's an actual schedule.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Well it doesn't have a schedule, but you assign point values to each task and you could have an agreement that a certain number of points equals a certain number of dollars at the end of the month... (my roomies refused the second part because they 'didn't want me to be their maid' but then they refused to do the work... you do need to pre-arrange these things on the off chance you're going to be living with dicks/twats.
valeriereified 6 months ago
@valeriereified I like a taking turns type of schedule, Pre-arranging things has worked out great for me and Karen so far. The place would have been looking like a post-tornado zone by now if we didn't do that.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@simplytouched Well, um, you lost me at the bleeding part, but having a choice HAS to include the choice to do what was formerly expected (with no choice involved). In your case, your choice is the housework for some very good reasons. None of your reasons are for fear of society's disapproval either. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
well I don't work so this doesn't really apply to me and my husband but even though I'm the partner who does the housework atm (we're not having kids I'm just awaiting a decision on a work permit) he still does dishes sometimes or takes the trash out and helps with laundry if he's around when I'm doing it. On the weekends he cooks and its a really good arrangement because neither of us are saddled with all the housework.
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin It applies, and it sounds like you're doing it in a fair way. If one is doing the income work and the other is doing the housework, that can be every bit as balanced as if they were each doing some income and some housework. Lots of different combos that are balanced. I was referring more to people who both have similarly houred income jobs, where on top of that, she *additionally* takes on all the housework. That boggles my mind a bit. And inspired a rant vid. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Yeah I don't demand that he do absolutely fifty percent of the work and he doesn't make that demand of me, we just both try not to take advantage of each other, we live within our means and we're happy with that. When I start working we'll figure out a new way to work things out, we're good at comprising and coming up solutions so I don't forsee it being a problem, especially since my husband is super enthusiastic for me to start working and go back to school.
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin Never mind work and school, I want you to run for office here in Canada. Free pot, free Marc, end the corporate harperized corruption and their planned prison increase of slave labour. To start with anyways. Then, I'm sure there'll be other stuff for you to fix please. Thanx in advance. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar Me running for office would be possibly the worst idea ever, I'm too much of an asshole, I think I'd do more damage than good in that capacity, I have much more freedom and ability in the advocacy side of things, I can be an asshole and an advocate, people expect that. I'm on the record saying too many radical things to be accepted as a politician though.
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin Well, um, I'm gonna write your name in on ballots anyways. :P
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar imagine the headline: "by a landslide of write in votes Krissy McPatriarchy, sex worker's rights and marijuana activist American socialist is voted into office".
Tories would collectively shit themselves
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin Yes! Headlines will read "Woman Forced To Run Country And Clean Up After Previous PMs".
This is starting to sound very hypocritical of me right after doing a vid about doing clean up work one doesn't want to do. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar lol, you're conscripting me
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin Yeah, this can't be right ethically, not if I really think about it. Ah well, I tried. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar lol its okay if you don't think too hard about it :P
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
It depends on the type of people you are. If you're both working shlubs, it should be shared. If he's a workaholic pulling in $250,000 year, I don't think he's going to care to do the laundry when he gets home and you shouldn't marry someone like this if you don't want to take care of the home stuff. I also think women are less likely to tolerate a mess, so they do it because men don't even notice half the time.
TruTV 6 months ago
@TruTV I agree with you they are less willing to tolerate messes and want more things done, this is exactly where a lot of overfunctioning comes from. We want men to do certain things they don't and we fill in for the space and the vacuum, and like scented nectar is saying we go and do it on our own. We also overfunction because of basic needs not being met in relationships. Thats why I don't see this as a gender-role issue, its more of a relationship problem.
rosskay 6 months ago
@TruTV As long as it works out somewhat balanced regardless of who is doing the money work and who is doing the unpaid work, it's good. If she's not working for income, then it's only fair that she should take on the unpaid work.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
Totally agree. Great video. My Mom did most of the housework in our family when I was growing up, and Dad took care of the yard work and external house maintenance, largely on the weekend. He was employed, she was not. That changed when he lost his job and she had to go to work - she put her foot down and insisted he begin doing the housework - this was circa 1978, and it impressed me that she stood up for what was fair and just. I helped out, too, and took care of the kids (cont'd)...
TheMercilessEye 6 months ago
...(my brothers and sisters) and helped with cooking the evening meal, too. Once I married, though, I was not only the only one working, but eventually took over the bulk of the housework and cooking. My wife wasn't employed, but came from a bkgnd of privilege and hated doing it. I used to chafe at this arrangement, but now it's become a necessity for me to carry on with it. I'm okay with that.
TheMercilessEye 6 months ago
I should qualify this to say that, while my wife did take care of much of the housework initially in our marriage, she always hated cooking and, given the quality of her work in the kitchen, we were better off with me handling that anyway. (lol) Also, she wasn't too hot at some things inside the house, so helping her out made things go better. Eventually, though, I did have to take over everything - since it's just her and myself, I'm okay with it.
TheMercilessEye 6 months ago
@TheMercilessEye Seems like a situation I'd hate, but if you're ok with it, I'm ok with you being ok with it.
That came out with far too many 'ok's for any decent sentence, but what can I say. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
Oh, one thing I suggest might be worth a read if for no reason other than to have a short, cogent argument on this type of labor distribution; it's by Bertrand Russell and is titled "In Praise of Idleness". I think his analysis would quite easily translate to this topic, if it doesn't already expressly entail it.
integralmath 6 months ago
@integralmath I'll look that up. I know little about BR, except that I saw a video of him saying something beautiful about sticking to the truth even if you think the lie would better society. That was a total paraphrase by the way. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
This hygiene thing is overvalued!
goxster 6 months ago
@goxster Yeah, I know eh? :D
You need at least a little bit of mess, or it feels like no one lives there. I am a slob by nature, but I live with someone who is equally a slob. We've worked things out to keep it at a level which is good for us, but which probably would not be clean enough for other people.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@goxster oh yes indeed. This obsession some have with hygiene is, well quite frankly, batshit crazy. Seem likes the companies that make cleaning products have done a fantastic marketing job.
DeeDemonwitch 6 months ago
The Mexican lady I pay to do it, not to be confused with who does the cooking.
integralmath 6 months ago
@integralmath Well, I hope that while they are doing their outside work for money, their husbands are cooking and taking care of the kids and cleaning. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
No matter who I share a residence with I attempt to equally share the work load or negotiate a settlement that both of us favor. Assignment of work load to a female (due to conditioning or unwillingness to question belief systems ) shows unwillingness for advancement.
On the flip side, I think it is contemptibly narrow in outlook to mislabel females who enjoys being domestic (and live with a male) as traitors to her sisters, etc.
I enjoyed the video.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact Good point. If it's to be a choice, then one must also be free to choose either of the things that used to be either mandatory or previously forbidden. Some women authentically DO enjoy it, just like some men do.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
I've got to go out for a few hours, but will be back soon to get into the comments. See you soon. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
I do all of the housework. I like vacuuming. Hm I use to have a video of me vacuuming.
GodlessManitoban 6 months ago
@GodlessManitoban Will you marry me? :)
Just kidding, the truth is that my place needs tidying. I'd be a lousy wife and probably fool around on you sometimes. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar
Guess what I am doing right now?
GodlessManitoban 6 months ago
@GodlessManitoban As you're typing? Can't be vacuuming unless you have one of those gadgets that travels around on its own and which cats like to chase? :)
Oh wait a minute, are you typing with one hand right now, or both?
I usually ask people the above sentence under, well, very different circumstances. :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar
:-O
I was on a break. Checking my finished upload. But yes I was vacuuming.
GodlessManitoban 6 months ago
@GodlessManitoban :D
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
My husband isn't working right now and I have two jobs, so I make the money and he does everything else. Inside house work and outside. When he was employed we took turns cleaning and cooking. He was always in charge of the dishes and I was always in charge of laundry (I don't like the way he folds shit) :P He was in charge of the lawn and I was in charge of the bushes and trees. I have more experience with heavy equipment (trimmers, saws and such) :0)
TheFateWolf 6 months ago
@TheFateWolf I like that. Flexible to keep things fair even when job situations change. :)
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
if women are doing all the housework, then you know the man isnt taking a very forward moving role in negotiation either... I sympathtize when they say " if I don't do it he never will."
We overfunction a lot, and most men really have no idea... we make it very easy for them to get lazy- fast.
rosskay 6 months ago 5
@rosskay "We overfunction a lot, and most men really have no idea... we make it very easy for them to get lazy- fast."~rosskay
This is an interesting view. I do not share it. I have never, in my experience, seen a woman make it easy for a man. I have seen her make poor decisions that allows her to function in a manner that is not befitting of her goals. Many men I know understand that a great companion is golden. It is easy to mislabel men with the qualifier "most".
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) I am not stating this is your intent. However, this is something that is thrown around frequently.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact it really is as simple as that. Lazy does not just apply to the physical work, Lazy also means lazy in leading relationships, emotional work, and many other things. Its easy to become lazy, when you have others willing to work for you.
rosskay 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact also many men are clueless, even if willing to do more. women also don't know how to cue men or inspire them to do otherwise either, and a lot of men grow up watching their mom's do everything and play multiple roles all at once. at the same time, these mothers use their sons in a way to replace their husbands emotionally, and men will do more work around the house for example, but have no clue for example on relate and meet womens needs on a deep level
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay I do not know if you insist on using the word "many" to be spiteful, but no worries. I am not emotionally invested in that. You may have anecdotal evidence that points to this. I do not think there is proof that will substantiate your claim.
However some men are clueless as some women are clueless that see men as wallets. After all it is the same function. One benefits from at the cost of another. I grew up watching my mom do housework, but she also insisted that I
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) do housework. I know many men who shared this experience. They also help there significant other. So, along with the women allowing this they should be mindful of not raising a male child without domestic expectations. Meeting a woman needs is (assuming the male is not antiquated in his thinking) proportional to the woman making her needs know to the male.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact Sorry for the typos.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact I find it interesting that even though in all my comments I pin responsibility on women and mothers, you take this personal against men. (!)
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay Sorry but I do not take it personally against men. Some people see things differently than others. Your intention was what it was. However my interpretation, or the manner I wanted to address it is my prerogative. No big deal.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact ok
rosskay 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact a lot of men really are clueless as to "how" we make them lazy. I don't feel spite at all when I type that, I had thought that before you even typed to me. There is plenty of "proof" to "substantiate" my claim, and I also speak from real world experience and observation. Part of this damage did in fact come from the feminist movement.
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay "a lot of men really are clueless as to "how" we make them lazy"~rosskay
No one makes another lazy. It is a choice whether a man goes down this path.
"There is plenty of "proof" to "substantiate" my claim, and I also speak from real world experience and observation."~ rosskay
That is your take but no there is not. You used the word many and for that you would have to have a defined range. Then you would have to account for all of the men outside of your experience. Whatever.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) Now this is interesting. If you do not mind expanding on how the damage came from the feminist movement...yeah that part.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact Yes, others do contribute to others laziness. If a capitalist fat-cat profiting off his employees gets lazy and never has to do work until the workers revolt, the workers are contributing to the bosses' laziness and oppression over them until they become class conscious and act upon it. Women have a lot of power over how men behave around them, but many overfunction and are not conscious of it. We are taught to do all these things too! It conflicts with a lot of men's needs too
rosskay 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact If I or another woman see a man as a "wallet" as you put it, which by I would say many women have needs for men to not treat money like water and be generous to them: I would say she is not clueless, she in fact knows what she wants and needs.
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay There is a difference in having a need versus using another. Unless they are into that...in which case it is still a decision made via a negotiation or by informed decision process.
If a woman desires to have money spent on her then all she has to do is informed the man. If he agrees great, if not then if that is her value she can move on...no issue with this. However, (no offense meant) it appears you are advocating something that does not appear to be above board. If I am
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact (part 2) incorrect do forgive me as it is not my intention to insult.
I would hope the woman is not "clueless" as this will make the man unable to provide what she needs (within reason). It is my opinion many women do not do such a great job at honestly communicating their expectations, needs and wants. If both parties are honest with each other then several of the issues we addressed would not be a concern.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact that feminine power I speak of left me on the receiving end of nuclearnight's passive agressive bullshit, when I offered to help through my own personal grassroots efforts in helping women in relationships and thier own personal power and making changes in their life. nuclernight would have it no other way of course, than to blame men and force them to change. I was labeled as anti-feminist and cowtowing to the dick
rosskay 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact their priveledge and patriarch theory as it stands (and if you even want it to call it "theory", which is more like loose hypothesis that was never actually thought out to it's logical conclusions) has to go.
rosskay 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact you can't know what im advocating by a comment section alone or know all my opinions or understanding of these dynamics between men and women in relationships
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay Of course I can not...nor do I need to...I am addressing only what is in front of me. I have no need to make value judgements. I do not know you.
EuphoricImpact 6 months ago
@EuphoricImpact I offered to discuss and help develop feminist politics and help women through a group that used to be here on YT started by dianaboston
rosskay 6 months ago
Heh. This is really where the rubber meets the road, isn't it?
alienbaroque 6 months ago
@alienbaroque not really, it really is simple negotiation. some people really still assocaite it witn gender roles and women are stuck overfunctioning. We are essentially taught to *not* just be.
rosskay 6 months ago 2
@rosskay to top it off, other women harp on us when we don't do stuff for men, and god forbid, let them be adults. I can't tell you how many of my female friends and my own mother cut me down for letting my bf do all the dishes.
rosskay 6 months ago 2
@rosskay I'm lucky because my grandma taught me that a guy who doesn't help around the house is worthless in a partnership. If you live in a space with someone you owe it to them to contribute to the housework. I've certainly had female friends reprimand me for not jumping every time a man needs a drink or whatever. My husbands a grown man, he can get his own damn beer thank you.
KrissytheWorldWithin 6 months ago
@KrissytheWorldWithin You might like the very funny song I linked to in the desc bar. One part has that very situation of him expecting his beers served to him.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@rosskay I've also found it to feel even worse if the pressure is coming from a woman. It's like they should know better or something.
ScentedNectar 6 months ago
@ScentedNectar yeah! :(
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay I mean that asking the real question itself exposes where the rubber meets the road in terms of these roles.
alienbaroque 6 months ago
@alienbaroque when i think of rubber meeting the road i think of putting "theory into practice" I can speak from personal experience and otherwise that it really is seperate from the roles themselves.
rosskay 6 months ago
@rosskay I see the asking of the question as leading directly to self-examination (if asked honestly), which is, for me, where the tires hit the asphalt.
alienbaroque