Spiritual Experiences - Christopher Hitchens

[MrOceanPenguin]

"Spirituality" is merely a metaphor for experiences, sensations, feelings or emotions that people cannot explain without attributing a supernatural force to them. It is nonsense.

[mikelheron20]

If the world really was thinking programmes of this sort would not be necessary. Unfortunately, only some of the world is thinking.

[itsabomberscope]

I watched the golden light of the setting sun fall onto the golden autumn leaves, hosted by the beautiful trees next to my house. A gentle breeze caressed the leaves making a sound akin to the sea shore, washing the water back and forth. All this was accompanied by the birds chirping as if to herald the end of another day. A small example of natural spirituality.

[samslick90]

Hitch should have traded in the Jack Daniels.

He would not be terminal if he had.

Maybe there is something to learn from religion?

[mehico33]

@samslick90 There certainly is, never underestimate human gullibility or the power of the lie.

[samslick90]

@mehico33 I was referring to AA. It's founded on Christian principles, and it has been adapted so all faiths and athiests can tap into their own spirituality.. Millions have kicked an alcohol addiction through it.

Apparently  this buffoon thought there was nothing worthwhile in religion.

Party on.

[mehico33]

@samslick90 A sound point however it is nothing that cannot be achieved without the 'hocus pocus'. Ill admit it does no good and proves no point to simply count heads, but if one were to analyze logical pathways and of course to dredge up history the equation yeilds a clear result, faith has caused more harm than good (to human societies, on a personal/subjective level one can never know). Also one can always replace the word "spiritual" with "passion/emotional".

Live fast and die...whenever lol

[YY4Me133]

@samslick90 From everything I've read, AA has a retention rate of only about 5% after one year, which is statistically no better than those who get no treatment at all. That's not exactly what I'd call a successful program.

People with different religions and no religion at all do worthwhile things. Religion has nothing to do with it, although religions love to take credit for all things good.

[solheights]

False logic, as seeing an apple is certainly not a 'result' of chemicals in the brain. The apple is perceived as light frequencies that are focused using muscles through the lens of an eye and projected upside down onto the retina. This is then transferred via electrical impulses to the brain. Proof the apple exists? Other people can perceive it too.

This is nothing like one person claiming they have had an experience in their head that no one else can quantify.

3rd sentence = irony.

[dan11009]

these people that claim to have divine experiences, take some lsd, and find out what a real mental experience is!

[TheDreamMechanic]

Har har har. But really. What about those people that led heinous lives, but religion helped them turn their life around? He didn't express anything in that direction; rather, he redirected everyone's attention to "ghosts" and went for the cheap laugh...which, of course, he got. I'm not a religious person. Not by a long shot. But, it must be said, that there is something to the spiritual dimension that is a fundamental part of who we are. Anyone claiming that it isn't is being dishonest.

[tvdd1973]

@TheDreamMechanic You make a fair point but one could just as easily say "what about all those lovely, kind, normal people who find religion and become killers and terrorists?" As animals we are scared of death and scared of the unknown. Religions (and to a lesser extent money-making charlatans such as tarot readers, clairvoyants and mediums) exploit those fears in the weak, the ignorant, the vulnerable, the frightened and the lonely. There's nothing 'spiritual' about them.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@tvdd1973

I agree. But the same could be said of any power structure. Politicians obviously lie and deceive; and on the "high" end on a global scale...so should we completely abandon politics because it exploits the weak minded? No. It's necessary, and is a fundamental part of how a society works. Take mass media. It is chock FULL of garbage that caters to ignorance, and helps create all manner of sociopaths. Should we wipe the slate clean and go back to 19th century technology?

[tvdd1973]

@TheDreamMechanic I see what you're saying and I accept that politics (to some degree) is a necessary part of an organised society, despite the fact that many politicians 'lie and deceive'. I would suggest, though, that religion is NOT actually a necessary part of society. It may SEEM that way because it's been with us for so long, and because its proponents wield considerable power, but we could (and should) do without it. Don't get me started on the media, my friend, we'll be here for years!

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic There all no "spiritual dimensions". It's nothing but our ability and indeed willingness to fool ourself. A part of us as beings who can imagine things. But, fundamentally, nothing more.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@TomFynn

Speak for yourself.

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic Until there's some rock hard evidence that "spiritual dimension" has anything to do with something outside our heads: Will do. Gladly.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@TomFynn

I'm assuming you're referring to non-local consciousness?

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic Oh some BS I haven't heard of. Goody. Checking out "thebigview" now. Quote: "Science postulates a materialist understanding of consciousness, but there are significant gaps in this understanding."

Oh, just the old god-of-the-gaps-arguments. And here was me hoping for evidence. Pity.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@TomFynn

You seem a bit touchy about the subject. All I was doing was asking a question.

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic Touchy? No. Fed up with? Yes.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@TomFynn

You don't even know me, silly boy.

Let's keep it that way. Buh bye, Tommy.

p.s. Don't be so touchy. It's a clear indicator that you are in no way truly informed about whatever opinion you're debating; as it is a sign of both weakness of character and fragility of the mind and heart.

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic Ad hominem: The last refuge of those without any argument. Bye.

[TheDreamMechanic]

@TomFynn

Tom, it's been a slice.

[TomFynn]

@TheDreamMechanic On that we agree. Take care.

[gamerunknown]

Its good to see Hitchens on the puplit :P

[PoliticalPars]

Always amusing and often enlightening listening to Hitchens.

[Stumperx]

Hitchens has changed the world and freed minds.

[phillozoph50]

Hitchens is always brilliant and amusing but this is one of his best monents I've seen so far!Amazing man.

[TheAtheistworld]

@guerrillacap i will make lamps from these fuckin chicken. im tired.

[TheAtheistworld]

religion makes humanity into little fuckin children...

[Phatcass]

google Doe's Account.

[emeralds222]

I love this guy!!!

[MRoane41]

@simplic10 Did you hear the last 30 seconds of his response?

[prostock69]

My mom has spiritual experiences all the time....when she's off her meds for Schizophrenia. The brain is a very complicated organ. People have visions, hear voices, etc. It doesn't mean it actually happened.

[Thrashaero]

@prostock69 that's one major problem with the religious....if they knew the depths of schizophrenia or the depths of drug use (or didn't take them quite as seriously), then they'd realize that their 'special' experiences are nothing more than illusions in their mind. sometimes people use this as a means to come up with good ideas...but i think it takes an even stronger mind to try to work without that (and it gives an advantage to know how to work without it).

[hotjun]

@prostock69 i'm sorry to hear that. It's horrible that she has to suffer delusions as a result of her ailing brain.

Although I have no doubt that your mother doesn't fall into that category, it disgusts me that people have this sanctimonious tendency to preach their moral superiorty over secularists whenever they have these allegedly spiritual experiences. It doesn't give them any right at all; even when these experiences are partnered with factual and critical evidence.

Again, my sympathies.

[DemonHermit]

@prostock69 There's a huge difference between hearing voices and having a flash of undivided consciousness. It may all the result of chemicals in the brain, yes, but seeing an apple is also the result of chemicals in the brain, ergo the apple doesn't exist?

Although I like Christopher Hitchens, people like him are speaking on certain subjects that they obviously have no experience with. Hearing voices is an obviously useless experience. Feeling pure conscious bliss isn't.

[allfitch84]

@DemonHermit when u say conscious bliss, do you mean being high? lol or during a particularly good romp in the sack? because let me tell you, bliss comes in many forms... who says we exist? maybe we just think we do?

[allfitch84]

@DemonHermit i don't know what the theory is called but there is a newer one that mentions that we are all actually just one consciousness that divides itself up into separate forms. So like, me talking to you, i'm actually talking to myself but I just perceive it as a separate entity, because that's the way the consciousness has set it up. I wish I knew what it was called but it's an absolutely crazy, yet brilliant theory or idea...

[Rocketryman]

@prostock69 - You tell your friend, "last night, I saw a person standing over my bed." They say, it was a dream.

But, if you/they are christian. It was Jesus.

Go figure.

[newfagscanttrif0rce]

Yes he did. People think something is supernatural but they are just idiots. I can't put it more bluntly than that.

[ichimonji1988]

Exactly, like LSD.

[braydenbeautiful]

I nearly died (and went to narnia, of course) when the one guy shouted, "Amen"

Hilarious.

Hitchens owns

[Ramshobraja]

The question asked is THE most important question. If one man can see

god or an angel, why cant another man?

[veryfirstusername]

"A trade I cannot imagine anyone making" hahaha

[gavinsstuff]

this would have been a perfect time for hitchens to ask why an amputee has never been healed. that would have shut that "answered prayer" questioner up

[bradreed]

i thought that was called being stoned....

[mate6007]

lol.. I think I'm pretty spiritual then...

[ZhangyXD]

wrong! a ghost is a spirit, therefore a ghost encounter is a spiritual experience but merely a different type of experience; this type just happens to freaks you out.

Also I don't know about you if Jesus appears beside my bed one day im definitely gonna freak out...

[omgwtfwhoami]

"How long, Oh Lord Our God?" lol

[Tremordeth]

Captain Morgan... mmmm

[bloodyrediron]

Praise the real lord, Jack Daniels.

I think these people who claim jebus made them give up the booze/drugs simply don't have the willpower to do it themselves so they cling to the notion that there's someone there to hold their hand when they walk past the booze section at the shops.

[mnewf2002]

I have a family member in AA, I have to agree with what you said. I feel it;s a placebo. you beleive (or have faith to borrow a term lol) in something hard enough that it will make it them better. the power of the mind is an amazing thing

[omgwtfwhoami]

Yeah the buddy system works sometimes. It also works in co-dependent relationships especially when they're junkies but as well when they are trying to stay sober together. Everything else is white noise.

[tattooskin72]

I get so sick of people claiming that it was through prayer to the almighty gawd that they gave up drink, drugs, promiscuity, etc etc. Whatever happened to this so-called "free will" that gawd gave them?j

[CQUK]

What a great answer - I believe that they believe they saw something, I don't believe there was ever anything there.