I have no idea what waldi said but from what I have read the Cossacks asked the Poles to help them against Moscow and Moscow to help against the Poles. So they were not strong enough to do it alone. Why is that? They owned the best land in the region. Were they just pacifists at heart? Why didn't they have a mighty army to defend their abundant riches? t now know the Tatars played a big part in this and I read that they supported both sides (Cossacks or their enemies) as it suited. Pricks!
@waldi38000 Check your history again, waldi... Ukrainians were NOT sold. Prisoners of War were given as part of the Alliance with Tuhar' Bey. It may not have been the 'Christian' thing to do, but Khmelnyts'kii needed a larger army, therefore compromises were made (plunder & slaves) for the Turkik Tuhar'.
I've seen this same comment written by various Poles on a plethora of videos around YouTube. You're all just parroting each other without checking your facts. What you're writing is propaganda.
@irynski They may not have been sold for money or goods, but they were given away in exchange for support, which still isn't justifiable and doesn't change the fact that Khmelnytski made a major sacrifice by letting a foreign force rape, slaughter, and pillage the country he was trying to "defend" or "free" from oppression. However waldi seems to make some very large exaggerations when he says half of Ukraine was taken by the Tatars.
@Jakub2610 I think we need to be very cautious about oversimplification on every level when we examine history. Context is everything. Our region on the world (Ukraine & Poland) was highly desirable to other empires & we were living under terrible Feudalism. We can't pull on single threads & declare them to be absolutes. Alliances & decisions made were within a context. Condemnation is easy... but alternative methods are difficult to judge.
@irynski It was necissary to get the Khan's support, and Khmelnytski needed it, that we can agree on, if that's what you mean by "adding context". But I still believe the price was too high to pay, especially since Khmelnytski incorporated Ukraine into Russia afterwards; the most feudal and absolute state in the world. Is that how Khmelnytski planned to free the Cossacks from feudal oppression?
@Jakub2610 Khmelnytski made the mistake of entering into an alliance with the Muscovites due to their being Orthodox - something most Ukrainians despise him for. Sadly, in this instance, the context is that he took them on face value. Dealings with the Poles & other ethnicities in the past had led him (& those he consulted with) to believe that agreements were honourable & were honoured. It ended up being the most poignant lesson that Muscovites are not the same species as decent human beings.
@Jakub2610 My understanding of the 'context', Khmelnystski was honourable but naive. The Treaty of Pereyaslav all but destroyed Poland & Ukraine. I don't believe that was his intention. We know he quit Kraków honourably, leaving the Poles to their own rule. This wasn't a war to create an empire. The intent was that Poland & Ukraine maintain their own lands & governance. Had he any idea of the outcome, I'm certain he wouldn't have even have entertained the idea of an alliance with the Russians.
@Jakub2610 Peace between our nations. The Treaty of Pereyaslav allowed the Russian liars & scoundrels to insinuate their imperialism -- a tragedy of such magnitude that we're still reeling from it.
Best of luck for the European Cup! Let's hope this brings us together... Poland & Ukraine united is Russia's greatest nightmare!
I must confess I found this extremely interesting, its a region, whos history I dare say I really don't really know as much about as I would like to. Very imformative. Ty.
the past is buried - many times it just simply is not...
It requires a depth to pay - so the soul some to rest...
Lu3Zak 2 months ago
Well done very interesting, looking forward to more videos from you johnj1954.
Surtorsken 2 months ago
Calm down about the polish people guys, most of us live in Canada now anyways
ThePoluke 3 months ago
what movie is this from?
bh5496 3 months ago
@bh5496 With Fire and Sword, Ogniem i mieczem
johnj1954 3 months ago
@johnj1954 Catholics and Orthodox are Brothers in Christ by the grace of God we should be united.
yellowballpoets 1 month ago
I have no idea what waldi said but from what I have read the Cossacks asked the Poles to help them against Moscow and Moscow to help against the Poles. So they were not strong enough to do it alone. Why is that? They owned the best land in the region. Were they just pacifists at heart? Why didn't they have a mighty army to defend their abundant riches? t now know the Tatars played a big part in this and I read that they supported both sides (Cossacks or their enemies) as it suited. Pricks!
Watcher465 4 months ago
Bravo, Johnj! This is simply wonderful.
fomavictorevitch 4 months ago
dzięki sojuszowi Tatarzy wywieżli pół Ukrainy w Jasyr nie Polaków . Na targu można było kupić jeńca za strzałę i to była wojna wyzwoleńcza bzdura
waldi38000 5 months ago
@waldi38000 Check your history again, waldi... Ukrainians were NOT sold. Prisoners of War were given as part of the Alliance with Tuhar' Bey. It may not have been the 'Christian' thing to do, but Khmelnyts'kii needed a larger army, therefore compromises were made (plunder & slaves) for the Turkik Tuhar'.
I've seen this same comment written by various Poles on a plethora of videos around YouTube. You're all just parroting each other without checking your facts. What you're writing is propaganda.
irynski 4 months ago
@irynski They may not have been sold for money or goods, but they were given away in exchange for support, which still isn't justifiable and doesn't change the fact that Khmelnytski made a major sacrifice by letting a foreign force rape, slaughter, and pillage the country he was trying to "defend" or "free" from oppression. However waldi seems to make some very large exaggerations when he says half of Ukraine was taken by the Tatars.
Jakub2610 2 months ago
@Jakub2610 I think we need to be very cautious about oversimplification on every level when we examine history. Context is everything. Our region on the world (Ukraine & Poland) was highly desirable to other empires & we were living under terrible Feudalism. We can't pull on single threads & declare them to be absolutes. Alliances & decisions made were within a context. Condemnation is easy... but alternative methods are difficult to judge.
irynski 2 months ago
@irynski It was necissary to get the Khan's support, and Khmelnytski needed it, that we can agree on, if that's what you mean by "adding context". But I still believe the price was too high to pay, especially since Khmelnytski incorporated Ukraine into Russia afterwards; the most feudal and absolute state in the world. Is that how Khmelnytski planned to free the Cossacks from feudal oppression?
Jakub2610 2 months ago
@Jakub2610 Khmelnytski made the mistake of entering into an alliance with the Muscovites due to their being Orthodox - something most Ukrainians despise him for. Sadly, in this instance, the context is that he took them on face value. Dealings with the Poles & other ethnicities in the past had led him (& those he consulted with) to believe that agreements were honourable & were honoured. It ended up being the most poignant lesson that Muscovites are not the same species as decent human beings.
irynski 2 months ago
@irynski Амінь :)
Jakub2610 2 months ago
@Jakub2610 My understanding of the 'context', Khmelnystski was honourable but naive. The Treaty of Pereyaslav all but destroyed Poland & Ukraine. I don't believe that was his intention. We know he quit Kraków honourably, leaving the Poles to their own rule. This wasn't a war to create an empire. The intent was that Poland & Ukraine maintain their own lands & governance. Had he any idea of the outcome, I'm certain he wouldn't have even have entertained the idea of an alliance with the Russians.
irynski 2 months ago
@Jakub2610 Peace between our nations. The Treaty of Pereyaslav allowed the Russian liars & scoundrels to insinuate their imperialism -- a tragedy of such magnitude that we're still reeling from it.
Best of luck for the European Cup! Let's hope this brings us together... Poland & Ukraine united is Russia's greatest nightmare!
irynski 2 months ago
@irynski Best of luck, let Russia bow before our united strengths! Sto lat!
Jakub2610 2 months ago
@Jakub2610 Indeed, Jakub! It's something to aspire to :-)
Wishing you - and our nations - a Happy New Year! We have the strength, the intellect AND the resources Russia covets!
irynski 2 months ago
I must confess I found this extremely interesting, its a region, whos history I dare say I really don't really know as much about as I would like to. Very imformative. Ty.
padsterp 11 months ago