Prof Aubrey Manning - Population - Can We Begin to Talk Sensibly?

[fortrosenz]

This biologist isn't being completely honest. He must know that nature's way to balance a population is food scarcity. He finally says something like that right at the very end of the question session.

[Hirvassalo]

@fortrosenz I suppose he wished not to be prompted to make any estimates as to WHEN the food crisis would be expected to occur. The reason for that would be the fact that all previous Malthusian estimates for that have failed due to not being able to predict the technologies increasing food production. Therefore, to openly predict such a disaster is to risk to maintain the economists' optimism. At the point when even they'd have to admit, as A.A.Bartlett has shown, it'd be too late.

[innerrevolution1]

As long as GM companies are run by profiteers and psychopaths, that won't help much. There is too much invested interest in control and power.

We need a massive breakdown of these mental structures which can only happen through chaos and a great extent of painful experiences, unfortunately, but at the end of the day people will be thankful, if they choose to learn.

This is probably about to happen, if we are lucky, with the financial system collapsing, before the biological one does.

[innerrevolution1]

Great talk and points at the end. Although I see that population is an enormous issue I still believe the key solution is to inspire wisdom and compassion, and appropriate actions, starting with the self. If rich countries don't radically reduce their meat and dairy intake, CO2 and other ecological footprint AS WELL as ethically planning their families, then they can't expect non-fascist population control.

Speaking as a vegan, who e.g. flew e.g. 2x in the last 15 years... still not perfect

[Hirvassalo]

@innerrevolution1 An excellent point, though reducing meat&dairy even to the recommended levels (which is at least as low as I've reduced it to) would help quite a bit, since (at least as Finland and USA are concerned) the consumption of those is several times higher than recommended. For instance, the Finnish recommendation is max. 0,3 kilograms/week (of meat), but an average Finn consumes 1,419 kg/week. And an average US citizen is even worse, at 2,378 kg/week.

[innerrevolution1]

@Hirvassalo Great that you've taken those steps. I personally don't believe that the recommended levels have any meaning, because most in the medical profession still largely base their opinions on insufficient, purely chemical data going back to the early 20th century which don't take into account e.g. the vitality (freshness) of food or the effects of toxicity associated with ingesting animal products. A few actually try (natural) vegan cures and so reality is "hidden". Find your own truth!

[innerrevolution1]

@Hirvassalo one example would be the so-called "necessity" for dairy for enough calcium intake. In nature other animals don't eat other species' milk except anomalous cases. The countries with lowest dairy intake have much lower rates of osteoperosis. Sunlight and exercise maybe factors, but it is possible that the unnatural abundance of calcium in cow's milk (human milk is much less and needed in infancy only in nature anway) causes a shock expulsion of body calcium via urination.

[Hirvassalo]

@innerrevolution1 I've personally experienced dairy to be pretty useful in building muscle mass, but I'm also planning to restrict its consumption to when exercising. My main animal food is fish, though most of my protein now comes from veggie sources anyway.

Grains&dairy are a fairly recent adition to human diet, so there is a good deal of personal variation as to how healthy they are (yeastless whole rye bread works best for me!). Processed meat is bad for everyone, though!

[innerrevolution1]

@Hirvassalo Sounds like you are on the right track ;-) Over time since becoming vegan (99%) I find I don't miss cheese or fish much, and meat even less. I still have a sweet-tooth sometimes but don't like the really sweet stuff anymore. The body gets used to good things when we change our gut bacteria through healthy diet. It seems like a natural progression. I am sure dairy protein can help build muscle but interestingly there are vegan body-builders, too!

[jtlanmanjr]

great talk, it was an honor being able to be in attendance

[andy765gtr]

a good talk, but not enough emphasis on peak oil, and he's FAR too respectful of economists

[Gladd1s]

Stimulating and thoughtful

[EdwinaTS]

Good quality discussion at the end. Don't miss!

[EdwinaTS]

They are not great speakers, but their information is valuable. Insightful observations.

[mensskintightlowrise]

Enormously interesting and manifestly significant.