@szlagjasny Alright, dipshit, I've been civil, but the gloves are off now. If you're ignorant enough to say a baby will be born if you leave a fetus alone and you somehow think that's any kind of argument, then you need to go back to grade school. Who gives a shit what a fetus will become until it becomes it? But what about zygotes and blastocysts that are aborted? Are those precious to you too? Why not go all the way back and save every sperm? Where's the line between potential and actual?
@94cellolover Do you believe God has ordained the natural order of things? If he has, then the natural 50% spontaneous abortion of all pregnancies is pretty much his responsibility, according to your worldview. Unless you just pretend it's not, without any kind of reason for thinking so.
If you're against contraception and against abortion, then you must believe sex is only for procreation, which means I shouldn't really waste my time on your sixteenth century thinking.
@TaylorX04 Well then my last comment to you will be this, God gave us the gift of free will. The reason is why there is evil in the world is because we do whatever we want without leading a life of good morals. Abortion is murder. You can disagree. But it does hurt a woman too. Its easy to say that you're pro choice when you're not dead. So be it. Its been a pleasure talking to you.
If you people that are pro choice think that a baby has no value in the womb what the fuck makes you think you have any value outside the fuckin womb? Somebody could kill you now but who gives a shit because you never had any value anyway! I AM A PRO LIFE CATHOLIC AND IM PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!
@94cellolover Way to not pay any fucking attention, dipshit. My argument has NEVER been that simply being inside a womb makes a fetus have no value, nor has that been the argument of any pro-choice people. Rather, a fetus is a non-thinking, non-feeling mass of cells and this is proven by prenatal science. Once it passes the third trimester, it begins to develop these abilities, which is when LIFE CAN BE SAID TO HAVE VALUE. You have no reason to be proud of ignorance, especially a double dose.
@94cellolover It looks more like a tadpole. But even if it looks like a baby to you... so what? Baby cats look like cats, baby elephants look like elephants... organisms that grow will obviously resemble their later stages somewhat, and this is no argument for anti-choice. A brain dead corpse on life support looks like an adult human being, but if it can't think or feel or do anything remotely resembling human behavior, is it really alive?
@TaylorX04 Well duh its alive! What do you think it is? A fucking alien??? It moves! If someone shot a pregnant woman in the stomach, that person would be charged with two counts of murder. But what is the difference if she pays someone to do it? None!
@94cellolover Life is self-sustaining, so being supported by machines would NOT be life. Also, could you give your source for two counts of murder for shooting a woman in the stomach? Even if it's true, that situation deprives a mother of any choice to have the child or not, whereas with abortion it is HER choice.
Have you ever heard of involuntary movements, btw? A fetus does not consciously do anything, that's a fact that no amount of faith can dispute.
@TaylorX04 OKay! So a baby "involuntary" sucks its thumb in the womb in the first couple of months! I'm curious: What would you say to an abortion survivor?
@94cellolover Do you have evidence for this "thumb-sucking baby"? I already asked you for one source in your last post, and you haven't provided, so I'm a bit skeptical of your claims on this issue.
What would I need to say to an abortion survivor? Your parents didn't want you here, like tons of couples who choose to be neglectful parents instead of having an abortion? Technically, we're all abortion survivors, since nature (aka your god) spontaneously aborts 50% of all pregnancies.
@TaylorX04 I"m going to tell you right now to please respect my beliefs. Well those parents could have not had sex and not be stupid. If you dont want a baby dont have sex. If you're afraid of getting preganant dont have sex. Its like abortion is medicine for prostitution. btw I was just saying an example. I dont have a source. But if a woman considers herself to be pregnant with a baby, doesnt that tell you something.....?
@94cellolover Your beliefs are a choice you make, and there are smart choices and stupid choices. I only respect choices and ideas that are deserving of respect. If you think saying your god spontaneously aborts 50% of pregnancies is disrespectful, you should take it up with him, because it's a fact of nature in our world.
"If you don't want a baby don't have sex" is like saying if you don't want to get in a wreck then don't drive. Are you a Catholic against contraception too?
@futurecatholic So is your comment. Why is it that Catholics and Christians always seem to focus solely on "exploitation" of women that usually involves women who make their own choices to appear in calendars, videos, etc? Might it have something to do with the moral superiority you hypocrites often imply?
Dude, I don't understand why every abortion supporter seems to love calling the unborn "fetuses." So, the thalamus develops in the 3rd trimester. So what??!! Aren't you glad your mother didn't exercise her "freedom to abort" that you espouse?
@jrichard1977 Seriously? The word "fetus" has been used long before abortion was the big issue it is today. It has nothing to do with "dehumanizing" the unborn, but I don't understand why you abortion opponents seem to think calling something unborn is important. To be born is just to emerge from the birth canal, it's a far more arbitrary term than "fetus".
(cont'd) And come on... the only reason anyone could be "glad" not to be aborted is because they are living now. If I had been aborted, obviously I wouldn't be around to feel regret or anything. That's kind of like saying, "aren't you glad your mother wasn't barren?" It's not like it matters in any sense, because you're already here, though even if in some alternate reality, they were barren, you wouldn't exist to care. This is one of the dumbest objections to abortion I keep hearing.
@TaylorX04 Great point!!! I like your comment because you hit the nail on the head. The aborted human isn't around. And, guess what, the mother who had the abortion didn't give the baby a choice. In fact, abortion is completely ANTI-CHOICE! It's murdering the defenseless ones and depriving them of THEIR right to choose whether or not they want to live.
@jrichard1977 You're quite dense for a 32 year old, aren't you? Why should a non-conscious mass of tissue cells get a choice? What does that even mean? The only place where choice can be had is with the mother, who is a thinking and feeling organism, as opposed to the fetus. A fetus is defenseless because it is a clump of tissue - it has nothing to defend and no ability to choose! What you're talking about is barely different from a rock.
@TaylorX04 The unborn is barely different from a rock? That has got to be the one of the scariest statements I've ever read by a pro-choicer. In fact, this statement reminds me a lot of many statements made by Adolf Hitler. Just out of curiosity, do you advocate the killing of those living who are mentally disabled and cannot fend for themselves or state their own opinions?
@jrichard1977 I could've guessed you'd say that. It's so typical for an anti-choice zealot to label anything outside their very narrow box as dehumanizing, immoral, Nazi, etc. Yet this doesn't change the facts. Go ahead, explain to me the difference between a fetus and a rock. The only thing you can state with certainty is that a fetus will eventually become a human and a rock will not. But is this alone reason to value a fetus, because of what it MAY become if left uninterrupted?
(cont'd) If potential life is such a big concern, why does your god seem content with letting thousands upon thousands of miscarriages occur every single day? Why did he command his chosen people to kill FULLY BORN children in the Old Testament? Abortion at least has a rationale that is disputable, but the Judeo-Christian god kills without mercy or reason. And you think the things I say are scary? Lol!
@TaylorX04 You are calling ME the anti-choice zealot? You are the one who thinks unborn children shouldn't have the choice! Sheesh.
Rocks are inanimate non-living groupings of atoms. Fetuses are organic LIVING beings with everything required for life as a born human. Rocks could never have opinions, make decisions. Unborn humans have that potential, but people like you want to deny them the right. So, after all, who is really the anti-choice nazi?
@jrichard1977 I don't think "unborn children shouldn't have the choice", I think they CAN'T have choice, because biologically speaking, they don't have the right equipment to make decisions. Why is this so hard for you to get?
I just already said that potential for life is the one difference in a rock and a fetus, and then I asked you why potential life should be sacred. You haven't answered that question.
@TaylorX04 A philosophical question: Should the defenseless be protected? Do you intend to protect your children from bad things happening to them when they are young and don't understand? Or, does the fact that they don't have the maturity level to have a choice mean that you let whatever happens to them happen?
@jrichard1977 No, it's not a philosophical question, and you're misunderstanding what the question is. I'm asking what the point is in defending what DOESN'T NEED DEFENDING. You act like you're saving unborn children from horrible death, like most anti-choicers believe, and yet you haven't refuted a single statement I've made about prenatal development. If thought and feeling don't matter to you, then what DOES make something alive?
@TaylorX04 I got that from the beginning already, man.
Potential for life is the one difference b/t rocks and fetuses? Gotcha, so the fetus isn't alive in your opinion until it's born? Human life is sacred and should be protected, wouldn't you agree? The unborn are human, therefore, they should be protected. Very simple.
@jrichard1977 No, you dumbass, I never said birth is what makes it valuable. You haven't gotten shit from the very beginning. You either keep misunderstanding, ignoring my comments, or you're just trying to marginalize me again, because of your belief in some imaginary thing aside from thought and feeling that makes something alive, which you have yet to quantify. Something is alive when it has the capacity for thought and feeling. I've said that like, what, 50 times now?
@TaylorX04 If you're 3 year-old son was walking into a busy intersection, should the fact that he doesn't know the difference of the consequences keep you from protecting his inability to choose wisely? This is the logic you are using. Just let the kid die. He won't even know what hit him!
@jrichard1977 Jesus tap-dancing Christ... are you really this stupid? I've tried to be civil, but you keep making the same mistakes. Let me emphasize this for you, so maybe it'll sink in: A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD CAN BOTH THINK AND FEEL. THEREFORE, A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD IS A LIVING THING. THUS I WOULD PROTECT THE CHILD BECAUSE IT IS A LIVING THING THAT NEEDS PROTECTION.
Yet again, it isn't clear what you think you're protecting a fetus from. What will "death" mean for a fetus if it can't think or feel?
@TaylorX04 You haven't answered my previous Q, though.
If you don't know the difference between a rock and an unborn human, then you are truly uneducated. Maybe you just don't know? Or is it that you disagree with modern science?
Go and read about embryological development. There is sensation, a heartbeat, sleeping patterns, and all kinds of things going on very early in the development.
@jrichard1977 Hahaha, I've read more on embryological development than you have, because you're still ignoring the facts about the hypothalamus and brain hemispheres. If you don't deny those facts, then sensation, heartbeat, and sleeping patterns SHOULD NOT MATTER. If the brain is unable to process information, then all you have is an animated sack of cells, living off the mother, like I said before. Modern science supports this, not your faith-based nonsense.
@TaylorX04 Whatever dude. People get double murder convictions all the time for killing pregnant women. Just why do you think this is? It's because TWO people were killed, and you know it. It's damned nonsense that, in America, we are quick to convict a murderer of killing an unborn baby (or fetus, if that's the term), yet we tell a mother she can do THE SAME THING to her own baby.
@jrichard1977 Choice makes all the difference. The person who murders a pregnant woman's unborn fetus is held accountable for depriving the mother of her choice to have a child. How well do you know your bible? Exodus 21:22-23 deals with a similar scenario. Through careless wrestling, two men cause a woman to miscarry. How does the bible treat a miscarriage? Like property. The husband is given money if his wife loses the "unborn baby", and life is only taken if the mother is harmed.
(cont'd) Your god no more considers the destruction of a fetus to be murder than I do. Your ignorance of prenatal development AND your own scriptures is what is damned nonsense, I'd say.
@jrichard1977 I would agree, when it comes to conscious human beings. What is life, anyway? Is it much of a life to be sustained on a feeding tube, while brain dead? I don't call that life, I'd call that an animated corpse. Thought and feeling are tremendous components of life, I bet you'd agree. Imagining life without them is... well, ridiculous. A mass of tissue cells that cannot think or feel cannot rightly be called life, I'd say. Why do you think it should be?
@TaylorX04 Not too sure about Exodus 21, though I will read it and get back to you.
Gotcha, so we can just a fetus as being a real human life depending on the person who "chooses" to kill it??? What about the choice of the unborn?
You are legitimizing the butchering of millions of children by saying the thalamus doesn't develop fully until the 3rd trimester? That's pretty low, man.
The fact that there's even a debate about this absolutely floors me.
@jrichard1977 I guess you haven't been paying attention to a word I've said. No, human life is not contingent on choice. I do not agree that murdering a pregnant woman is murdering two people. I think depriving a woman of her unborn fetus is punishable, because it removes the choice to have the child from her. The unborn is nowhere near conscious enough to have the ability for choice, it's scientifically not possible.
(cont'd) The hypothalamus allows the transfer of information through the brain, but before the third trimester, the brain hemispheres are not synchronous either, so there really IS no ability for thought or feeling. You can deny this fact all you want, but it would be like saying that a computer can still calculate when none of its wires are connected. I am not legitimizing murder at all, you are just trying to marginalize me because of your own personal beliefs and biases.
@TaylorX04 LOL, OK, dude. I deny ZERO facts. Are you, however, going to deny the FACT that a woman who does not have an abortion and goes forward and has her baby has saved that baby's life?
@jrichard1977 You don't deny that the hypothalamus doesn't form until the third trimester and that the bilateral hemispheres are not in synch until then too? You don't deny that prenatal science tells us that no organism can think or feel before that biological "equipment" is correctly connected and functioning? If you don't deny this, then you should really stop saying "baby", since a fetus is nothing like a baby.
That's not a fact. A fetus is not alive in the same sense a baby is.
@TaylorX04 Very very scary comment, my friend. And, dangerous. Whether they can think or not is besides the point. We as caring humans have to think for those who cannot think for themselves.
I didn't know that "alive" had multiple definitions. Do you seriously equate the unborn with a big ball of cells almost like it's a cancer that can just be removed? Incredible, truly. Wow.
@jrichard1977 The ability to think is besides the point? I completely disagree. Are you planning on defending plants from being destroyed? They can't think. What about corpses? I'm pretty sure they can't think either. There's a point where "defending the defenseless" loses its admirable qualities and just becomes absurd. What are you defending a fetus from? Again, for it to die, it would need to be alive first, but with no thought or feeling, how alive is it really?
@TaylorX04 You said in your previous comment that "choice makes all the difference."
Depriving a woman of her unborn fetus is punishable because it removes the choice to have the child? It doesn't remove the choice to have the child. It removes THE CHILD. It kills the child. What about the child's choice? You haven't answered that one.
@jrichard1977 I have answered that one multiple times, but you keep ignoring it because you have no facts on your side. A fetus is not a child. It is a mass of tissue cells that cannot think or feel. Choice and rights can only exist between conscious beings. Even if we're talking about animal rights, they are rights agreed upon by the owner and society - THE ANIMAL CANNOT COMMUNICATE A CHOICE and probably doesn't have the brain power to choose in the first place.
(cont'd) Like the responsibility for a pet is placed on its owner, the responsibility for a fetus falls with the mother. It is HER decision what to do with it, NOT YOURS. If it is nothing but a clump of tissue cells, she has a right to prevent it from becoming anything more, if she chooses. It's not killing a child, because to kill implies that there is life in the first place, but a fetus is not living. It's a parasite in the womb, for lack of a better word - living off the mother.
@TaylorX04 A mass of tissue cells. That is a lie. There is a heart beat at 4 weeks, my friend. That is a fact. How is that not a fact on my side of the argument? Abortion stops a beating heart.
@jrichard1977 And what is a heart? A mass of cells. For the heart to beat is no special deal, but it's so frequently overblow by anti-choice fanatics like yourself, because you still think the heart is where personality and thought comes from - you're so stuck in the primitive nonsense of your ancient superstitions. A heart can beat inside a brain dead corpse thanks to medical technology, but does that make the corpse alive? Nope. Yet again you fail to understand science and basic logic.
When you discuss the different stages of life development, you ask the open-ended question (in so many words) "when can we define the living organism to have value outside of the mother's control?" The problem is that there is a large grey-area of where true self-awareness begins and when it becomes unethical to terminate the pregnancy. Obviously, the early stages can be easily identified as non-human, but I think the pro-life argument is that since there is any ambiguity...
There is some ambiguity, I will agree, but it comes at a point long after most abortions are performed. Science tells us a fetus does not even have the biological ability to think or feel before the third trimester, so there's certainly no possibility of self-awareness at that stage. The ambiguity poses more of a problem for the issue of personal responsibility vs. maternal responsibility. Mothers are responsible for their children post-birth up until they hit an often arbitrary age of reason.
(cont'd) We don't consider it acceptable for a mother to kill her baby, even though she is responsible for it - as it cannot value itself - because by that point the biological abilities are in tact and the infant can think and feel. Whatever ambiguities occur, we know a point at which there is no possibility of self-awareness and a point at which there is self-awareness, however vague.
@TaylorX04 So are you completely against partial-birth abortions except for extreme life or death situations? This is important because when you state "ambiguity poses more of a problem for the issue of personal responsibility vs. maternal responsibility. Mothers are responsible for their children post-birth up until they hit an often arbitrary age of reason," I interpret your position to be that the ambiguity of consciousness is secondary to the ambiguity of the mother's responsibility.
I am against partial-birth abortions, except for those extreme situations. Responsibility falls somewhere when the child cannot yet account for itself morally, and I think it falls to the mother, just as responsibility for a pet falls to its owner. However, with children, they will reach an age of consciousness and reason where responsibility shifts from the mother to them. When exactly this happens is relative, but not even close to the trimesters when abortions are performed.
@TaylorX04 I may be misunderstanding you, but following that line of logic...if a mother has a fetus that is around the age of early consciousness but there is ambiguity regarding her responsibility as a mother, an abortion is justified.
I think the responsibility of the mother is closed tied to the development of the fetus. If it is under the first three trimesters, and has no biological means for consciousness, I do believe abortion is justified. But once the hypothalamus fully forms and the bilateral hemispheres of the brain are synchronous, there becomes the possibility of consciousness, and I think that is much more of a grey area.
(cont'd) Personally, I only support abortion up to the third trimester, not because I think immediately after that fetuses suddenly develop consciousness, but because I know that prior to that point, things are not wired correctly yet to even allow for consciousness to develop. The overwhelming majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester though, so there's not such a proximity to ambiguity.
AAAAARGH - move that bldy calendar off your wall for vids or move the camera! That reflections is highly irritating (Now I see her tits, now I'm flashed) Arrrrr!
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24 hours after intercourse fertilization begins...Eye color,hair color,IQ,personality,facial features all start at this point...Thats DNA...That determines an individual & no two DNAs are alike..You are killing an individual which will never get a chance to live again...We don't get recycled ....We get one shot at life...When you abort that zygote,you are killing an individual..All the big words & scientific studies in the world cannot dispell that fact.You see the world through atheistic eyes
No, you are not killing an individual, you are killing the blueprint of an individual. I hope you don't ever masturbate, because you kill tons of blueprints then too.
Seeing through atheistic eyes is seeing through intelligent, unblinded eyes. I'll take science and research over superstition and faith any day.
If you maturbate,there are no eggs fertilized...You don't make sense...Its all the same rhetoric that I hear from the pro-choice crowd constantly..I'm not going to stay & argue with you..I have my own channel & comments that I have to field tonight...I will just stick to what I said & let the viewers decide..Life is a miracle...Save the babies...Gerard Paul
You're a dumbass. A zygote, sperm, egg, and fetus are all potential life, nothing more. When you masturbate, you violate your own principle of wanting to preserve the development of potential life.
I wonder how many of you christian american pro lifers is against the death penalty ?
It should always, always be the pregnants choice, never religion or state.
I think you should seek out women who has been raped and became pregnant, look them in the eye and say, they must carry the baby to terms, because its a miracle.
I'm against the death penalty and I'm pro-life...in answer to your question.
My brother was murdered ( at 17 ..on his way to college that fall) by someone in cold blood because he thought my brother was trying to talk to his girlfriend.
And I wouldn't wish death on this man...so I'm pro-life all the way.
I was also raped when I was in college...but a guy who was supposed to be my friend.
It is what it is...jacked up stuff happens to people every day.
@theprofileguy - so you would insist that the 9 year old who was raped by her stepfather who was expecting twins should go through with the pregnancy? She thankfully found a doctor to help her but both HER and the DOCTOR were excommunicated from their church (catholic), and yet the stepfather was NOT (true story). There are some cases where abortion is necessary to save the mother. A woman should be allowed to abort (if she wishes) if she is raped.
profileguy - yup, selfish reasons and using it as (unfortunately) many people do as 'contraception' is not a good thing.
Both sides of the argument are strong. However, in the world we live in - the uneducated carry on squirting out babies, who aren't wanted, who are brought up with no education too, and have more babies. This is pretty awful too. Perpetuate misery with broken families, and overpopulating the planet, or be responsible. Rape situations are exempt -women should have the choice
It's obvious why. "If I can sell you on the rape thing...then you have to agree with the other 99% by default"
Foolishness. What's the point of arguing. People who are for the right to life for ALL humans are not going to change...and people who are for the right to murder for convienance are not going to change.
I'm not arguing!!! I AGREE that 99% of the time abortion is terrible and MOST of the time people do not use it in desperation. If you are pro life, then why not pro life of the 9 yr old girl? Thats what I don't get? Why if someone is allowed to have an abortion in a rape situation should ANYONE be allowed to get an abortion? Like you say, people should be responsible, and if they don't want to risk getting pregnant, should not have sex. So the abortion rules should be massively strict.
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You were a zygote..You were an embryo...you were a fetus....Gee,look at you now...A heartless human...But a human nevertheless...Foca will take abortion out of the hands of the government ...Totally...All restrictive laws will be gone...Life is a miracle...Save the babies....Gerard Paul
Don't worry prolife brainwashed friend, we'll have the 15 billion kids running around before long when you have your way and every redneck in the world has 10 kids, lives on welfare and the children grow up to be ignorant like their parents, and hate their lives because the parents don't give a shit about them, it was just a one night stand. There is a lot more pain and suffering forcing life into the world that wasn't intended to be here in the first place. If god cared he would do something
You will never be able to change the minds of fanatical pro-choicers...just as they can not change the mind of fanatical pro-lifers. When you worship death it comsumes you. When you worship life it comsumes you.
they know it's wrong to kill babies...that's why they have to fight so hard to hold on to the belief that babies are not humans until they are born.
If they admit or even consider that human life begins before birth....then they admit to condoning murder...which is something many will never do.
It's like how europeans convinced themselves that africans were not humans...in order to do the inhumane things they did during the american slave trade. Dehumanise to justifiy.
And you know it's wrong to deprive women of their right to their own bodies and favor a mass of unthinking, unfeeling tissue that is not of any relation to you... that's why you fight so hard to hold onto the belief that life begins at conception, which is nothing but an article of faith.
An embryo is not a human being. It is a step along the process that leads to a human being. Yet your god openly condones the murder of adults in his holy book, which you've convinced yourself isn't true.
I don't believe in the death penalty.....even when my brother was murdered...I didn't wish that for his killer.
As a woman, I feel that the right to my own body...means I choose who to sleep with with the full knowledge that contraceptives are not 100% effective and I could get pregnant. If I 100% don't want to get pregnant...than I use self control and don't have sex.
People need to man up and start thinking responsibly, and making responsible choices.
You act like only irresponsible people have abortions. What about those who have become pregnant after being raped? What about those who need abortion to save their life, because the pregnancy is ectopic?
I agree that contraception is preferable to abortion, but there are plenty of instances where a woman is not given the opportunity to make responsible decisions.
Your arguments are only from emotion so far. Do you have any facts that abortion is "murder"? Somehow I doubt it...
I speak only from what I know. I know that most abortions are not because the woman was raped or had an ectopic pregnancy. You need to keep it real.
As someone who has exprienced rape...I can speak from what I know. You can not. You have not experienced rape or an ectopic pregnancy.
I speak from what I have been told by friends, and they have told me they aborted for none of the reasons you just mentioned. The reality is that most abortions occur because of women who are not responsible
Keep it real? You do not have the right to forbid women who have been raped or had ectopic pregnancies from getting abortions, no matter how much of a minority they are. I am not pretending to be an authority on rape or ectopic pregnancies, but I have just as much right to defend those women who want abortions as any other person.
You are just a self-righteous bitch who uses her own personal experience to impose her views on the rest of society. That's how I keep it real.
Insults? Getting a bit emotional? Which I find interesting since you can't seem to muster any emotion for the children that are being killed. Well I wont return the favor by throwing slander at you. Like I said....you can't change anyone's mind on this issue...no matter what stance they have taken
They are not children, they are masses of tissue. Your poor excuses for calling them children fail on all counts. They cannot think, feel, speak, or behave like children at all. Keep it real, remember.
Your arguments are from a lack of emotion. Any time you end the existance something that is alive...you are killing that thing.
A fetus has a heart beat...it is alive...it is separate from it's mother.
Because someone has no voice...does that give us the right to destory it?
Science changes drastically with each generation...whites used science to 'prove' that blacks weren't human. Same thing you're doing now...only your hated group is the unborn.
A lack of emotion? No, I just invest my emotion into the real ethical issues of the mother's rights.
A fetus is entirely dependent on its mother for survival, it is not a separately self-sustained lifeform. If it is removed, it will die without medical assistance. This makes it more of a parasite than an independent human being.
Fuck you. "Whites" didn't use science to prove shit. Science endorses equality, because it shows we all are descended out of Africa.
And please set your hate aside and do the research. Whites did try to use science to justify their treatment of non whites. You can't make that up when it can be easily proven.
You are just angry because you think I'm implying this somehow reflects badly on you....which I'm not and it doesn't....unless you are racist.
I wondered if you would twist what I'm saying, as most anti-choicers do. It IS a parasite in the sense that it is dependent on the mother and uses nutrients and resources from the mother to survive. You can't deny that.
I know SOME whites tried to use science to justify discrimination, but as I already explained, they did not understand science. They made shit up. I am angry that you try to pin it all on whites who used "science", as if there weren't many more who used the bible.
Yes and people of a like mind will use the bible to kill and do many other things that are horrible. Hateful people can and will use just about anything they can get their hands on to further their hate. And you say they didn't understand science...that's like people who say "oh...yes they used religion to kill and justify their goals....but they just didn't understand religion."
To each his or her own. Your words are proof enough. You say you don't hate...but then you display it freely.
Some people tried to say science supported their racist views, but they distorted science for their own bigotry. You say whites like all white people held this racism, when you know better. And you can't tell me you wouldn't be offended if I spoke of blacks in a similarly gross generalization.
And surely not all whites of that time felt this way....but many did...even many religious (the catholic church for example) whites felt this way.
You can say whatever you want about blacks.....just make sure it can be supported. Either way...I won't get offended...just as I didn't when you started showing your true intelligence by resorting to cursing at me.
Hahaha, if you think intelligence is measured by the curse words someone says, then you should just walk away. I don't care to discuss things with a child who values self-censorship over self-expression, no matter how crude.
I could have just as arbitrarily said you show your true intelligence when you told me to "keep it real".
Pro-choicers worship death? How sad it must be to think so lowly of your fellow humans. Unfortunately for your retarded statement, a lot of anti-choicers worship death when it comes to the death penalty.
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The reality is that abortion is selfish....it puts all the power of choice into the woman's hands. The baby has no choice and the father of the baby has no choice.
One day...once we have truly evolved (pun intended)....we will teach our children about this dark time in our history when we condoned the genocide of children,.
The "baby" has no choice because 1) it's a fetus, not a baby, and 2) it has no ability to think or have a choice. The father of the fetus does get to have some say, but since he is not the one carrying it inside him, he does not get to dictate what the woman gets to do with her body. I'm surprised you fail to understand this.
No, we'll teach them about the absurdities of religious faith and how people once believed a mass of tissue was the equivalent of a human child.
So people who have no ability to think...should have no choice? Wow. If you follow that line of reasoning, then people with severe brain damage or are comatose should have no choice or have anyone look out for their best interest.
It has nothing to do with faith. It has everything to do with respecting life and being decent to other humans.
okay...it should be the mother's choice weather the child lives or dies. How is that looking out for their best interest?
I grew up in poverty and struggling, yet I am so grateful that I got a chance to experience all the things I have in life...the good and the bad. Who are we to deny someone else that right because it would be inconvient for the mother.
How about just keeping our legs closed and pratcing some self control..then we wouldn't have to justify murder.
No. We don't agree. See I held this way of thinking when I was young and without much experience.
The solution is so simple is infantile. If you don't want to get pregnant...you want to eliminate all possibilities of conception...then don't have sex.
Do we worship sex and pleasure? Is life about how many orgasms one can get....or about getting your nut off?
No one is ever really ready to have a child, especially in this culture of anti-family.
pedophilia was once considered okay....and pedophiles feel they should have a right to their desires...they don't feel they are doing anything wrong, because they feel the child wants it too..and it's just an expression of love.
Geez I know too much about these sickos..comes with working in law enforcement I guess. But I digress.....lol...it's their bodies right? Who are we to tell them what they can or can't do with their own bodies?
oh...I forgot..it's not just about their bodies.,..because their actions are affecting an innocent child who...certainly doesn't want to be molested or raped by an adult. ...Right?
I feel the same about abortion. It's not just about an adults body...it's about both...mother and child. And abortion has lasting affect on the woman. I've never met a woman who had an abortion who didn't tell me she always thinks about it, and she feels trapped.
I'll just respectfully agree to disagree. I know we could go on and on with this one...neither one moving an inch, and I'm okay with that. I do appreciate your level of respect...not debasing yourself by using insults or cheap jabs.
So please stay home from now on if you want to eliminate all possibility of being killed in a car accident. Don't fly anywhere if you want to avoid being killed in a plane crash. Don't eat anything if you want to eliminate the possibility of food poisoning. Don't talk to anyone if you want to avoid the chance that they could stalk you and murder you.
Travel is not inevitable and neither is being sociable. I am not reaching to condone "irresponsible" behavior, I'm showing you where your line of thinking leads you. Sure, people can abstain from sex if they want to, but why should they have to? I've been having sex for years now, always with contraception, and I've still not gotten anyone pregnant. If some day I wind up on the narrow end of the odds and do knock up a girl, I will do the responsible thing. The chance is next to zero though.
Yes, you exercise control over your body when you choose moderation and know when to stop. I don't use drugs because I don't see any point in it, not because I value abstinence over moderation or personal freedom. I drink, but I know my limits too.
Does self-control mean you deprive yourself of something you enjoy? It seems to me that when you do that, you still give that thing power over yourself. What people need to learn is moderation, not abstinence.
And so what if no contraception is fool proof? Are you going to stop driving your car because there's a chance you could be hit and killed on the road? It may be a slim chance, but the chance is there, and this is the same case with contraception.
Lol, do you think anyone who is severely brain damaged or comatose has NO ability to think? I'm talking about irreversible brain death, where a person is incapable of thought and therefore incapable of choice. In those cases, you can keep the body alive, but all that will remain is an empty shell.
Thanks for bringing this up, actually, it further illustrates my point on the irrelevance of "life" in the issue of abortion.
Your example is irrelevant and unrelated to my comment. Someone who is brain dead is a shell sustained by machines. When the brain dies, their body will die shortly thereafter if the machinery is disconnected. A fetus has the biological equipment, but it is not developed enough to allow it brain function until the third trimester. I don't care if its heart is beating by the 6th week. A heartbeat is simply blood pumping into an organ.
If you want to call that "life", then fine, but as I said, life is irrelevant in the debate. We're talking about what makes an organism valuable enough to have its own rights. You don't grant rights to bacteria or insects, do you? They're even more alive than a fetus.
Please don't try to psychoanalyze me. There is no hate, you're just trying to paint me as a hateful person because you have an agenda you can't see past (or refuse to see past).
nocturne1980 - so if the pregnancy and birth would kill the mother (ie, the nine year old who was raped by her stepfatehr and was expecting twins), would you still think she shouldn't have an abortion? There are always grey areas - would you kill the mother to save the unborn fetus? 25% of all conception results in natural reabsorption. Natural abortion in other words.
lol..I can't even remember what I posted, it was so long ago. My beliefs are mine..and nothing is going to change it. As I'm sure my replying to your comment isn't going to shake or move you either. So what's the point?
I believe an atheist put it better than anyone I've heard(even theist).
A woman's right to control her womb does not supercede another human's right to control it's ENTIRE body, it's life.
The burden of proof lay on the outside force wishing to cause harm or take the life of another. The burden does not fall on the person wishing to maintain their existance or not be harm.
Because the person has no voice to protest does not negate this.
I agree with you though nocturne1980! - but I do think there are exceptions. ie, with the 9 year old girl (who was expecting twins - a nine yr old body cannot support this). Why should she be sentenced to death because of the cruel abuse of her stepfather? Surely you wouldn't choose her to end her life out of no fault of her own? There are always exceptions to situations where a large percentage of the time the 'abortion' is inexcusable. I would be interested to know what you think.
If her body can't handle it..then the babies would be absorbed. Why can't she have a C-section? I agree in cases such as this..it's really horrible what these girls and women have had to endure. The will have trauma either way...abortion or no. And to think that an abortion fixes things...well you have no ideal how it would affect her mentally.
I know a woman a girl who wasn't raped but got pregnant when her body was really young. She had the baby. Both are fine.
Hmm, thats not always the case (reabsorption). Nine year old bodies are not able to carry a baby, let alone two full term. Have you seen what twins do to a body? My sister had twins. Yes, I know abortions affect people mentally, but a nine year old is not mature enough to bring another life into the world - she is still a child hersef. Just because her body can get pregnant, doesn't mean she should have to endure pregnancy. I think in cases like this abortion is the lesser of two evils.
"Sorry little girl, but you will have to die because you were raped by your stepfather and so you'll have to suffer because you do'nt have a choice and didn't have a choice to be sexually brutalized. Come on, its not that bad, you got to live 9 years and most of that was filled with the abuse of a parent - at least you're bringing new life into the world, bye" -yeah, I can see how you would think its ok for the girl to suffer more. (????)
It was appearent to me from the initial comment that you were just baiting for an arguement...and like I said then..what's the point? My views are not going to change and yours are unlikely to change either. So what's the point?
The term "partial birth abortion" refers to an extremely rare procedure performed in less than 1% of late term abortions, which themselves are a tiny portion of all abortion.
If the fetal skull is to weak to push throug the birth canal, or if the muscles in the birth canal do not relax properly during induced labour, the doctor will collapse the skull in order to easy the delivery of the dead fetus.
The ban on partial birth abortion does not prevent these late term abortions.
Late term abortions are almost always a matter of extreme threat to the would be mother, or to a late discovery that the fetus will be severely malformed - missing a brain for instance. Some examples can be seen at aheartbreakingchoice . com
Now, because of the ban, doctors must dismember the fetus inside the womb, at much greater risk to the health of the woman - all because the fetus fetishists were able to raise an hysterical outcry about "babies being killed in the birth canal".
Pathetic AND dishonest. When someone {an antiabortionist in this case} resorts to base dishonesty and outright trickery and lying to support their argument, it shows how invalid their entire argument is.
Angelshoulders - Nazi germany was committed by people to people. And it was done to cause pain to the mothers, not to stop a child. It was don't AGAINST the mothers and the Jews. you cannot compare genocide to a difficult choice made by a Woman.
Or with a mother who cannot support the child and have a child want for food and clothes? Or be born into a brutal house hold? Or have a mother who constantly resents the child or is reminded of why she had the child?
Sometimes contraception is not always an option, in the example of Rape or abusive spouses.
The term Pro-Life is a false hood. Whose life are you in pro of? Not the Mothers thats for sure.
Our bodies miscarry if the inside is not suitable for a child, if the female is ill or stressed or too thin or in a brutal relationship (inevitably a kick to the stomach)
Why can we not miscarry when the outside is not suitable for a child? Would you really want the child born into the world and have to be placed in foster care?
I guess with this brain-function "excuse" someone who is injured in a car accident and has their brain damaged deserves to be treated like trash and killed. The issue here is that every human DESERVES to live (unless they have done evil like murder or possibly another depraved act). We can't avoid the fact that every human, after being conceived, TAKES TIME to develop and has a RIGHT to live in the meantime. Puberty is the TRUE final completion of development, shall we deem children nonhuman?
Children can both think and feel, which is around 90% of what we identify as human, like I said in the video. Development is one factor to consider, but no arbitrarily.
And if someone is brain dead and consuming medical resources just to make the family feel better, I do think that is wrong. They're loving a shell of a human being, nothing more.
The nazis used some pretty similar reasoning as to what this guy uses to ok abortion in his mind, in deciding that jews aren't people. One thing this guy does incorrectly is insult. Since this is an argument type video. It doesn't prove anything to insult other than that you don't have a very good basis for your beliefs and you really just want to believe quite the opposite. In other someone who insults shows a form of brainwashing themselves. I do give one extra star for how smart he is.
Hahaha, are you trying to say that the Nazis used science and facts to decide that the Jews weren't people? That's all I've used, coupled with a little reason and logic. The funny thing to me is that you go on to tell me insulting doesn't get me anywhere. What could be more insulting than insinuating that I'm on par with the Nazis? Climb down off your high horse, dude.
You're right jamesdragonforce, and also many of the Jews Hitler killed were adults and teens who had some HOPE of defending themselves. Even a small child walking around is stronger and more self-sufficient than a preborn child. Hitler killed 6 million Jews, a minority being babies, as opposed to the 51 million preborn babies slaughtered here in the U.S. I would imagine a gas chamber is way LESS painful than being ripped apart and/or having your head stabbed before your brains are sucked out!
you are full of shit
if you leave the fetus ( a stage of every human ) a baby will be born
you were once a fetus , and your mother did the right thing
ask your mother
condoms are fine with me
szlagjasny 9 months ago
@szlagjasny Alright, dipshit, I've been civil, but the gloves are off now. If you're ignorant enough to say a baby will be born if you leave a fetus alone and you somehow think that's any kind of argument, then you need to go back to grade school. Who gives a shit what a fetus will become until it becomes it? But what about zygotes and blastocysts that are aborted? Are those precious to you too? Why not go all the way back and save every sperm? Where's the line between potential and actual?
TaylorX04 9 months ago
@TaylorX04
once u have sex with a women and your sperm meets her egg
there it starts
just sperm on its own is not a new life , and woman's egg by itself is just an egg
do what you want with your sperm stupid moron . how much simplier can I put it
szlagjasny 9 months ago
@szlagjasny You're just a troll. Piss off, fuckface.
TaylorX04 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TaylorX04
you got no argument - even you see the truth
I am not a troll
I speak the truth
you can not handle the truth
so you start with name calling
grow up
szlagjasny 9 months ago
Im kinda confused, why should I take it up with God? And, yes. Im against contraception.
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover Do you believe God has ordained the natural order of things? If he has, then the natural 50% spontaneous abortion of all pregnancies is pretty much his responsibility, according to your worldview. Unless you just pretend it's not, without any kind of reason for thinking so.
If you're against contraception and against abortion, then you must believe sex is only for procreation, which means I shouldn't really waste my time on your sixteenth century thinking.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Well then my last comment to you will be this, God gave us the gift of free will. The reason is why there is evil in the world is because we do whatever we want without leading a life of good morals. Abortion is murder. You can disagree. But it does hurt a woman too. Its easy to say that you're pro choice when you're not dead. So be it. Its been a pleasure talking to you.
94cellolover 1 year ago
If you people that are pro choice think that a baby has no value in the womb what the fuck makes you think you have any value outside the fuckin womb? Somebody could kill you now but who gives a shit because you never had any value anyway! I AM A PRO LIFE CATHOLIC AND IM PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover Way to not pay any fucking attention, dipshit. My argument has NEVER been that simply being inside a womb makes a fetus have no value, nor has that been the argument of any pro-choice people. Rather, a fetus is a non-thinking, non-feeling mass of cells and this is proven by prenatal science. Once it passes the third trimester, it begins to develop these abilities, which is when LIFE CAN BE SAID TO HAVE VALUE. You have no reason to be proud of ignorance, especially a double dose.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Doesnt look like a mass of cells. Looks like a baby.
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover It looks more like a tadpole. But even if it looks like a baby to you... so what? Baby cats look like cats, baby elephants look like elephants... organisms that grow will obviously resemble their later stages somewhat, and this is no argument for anti-choice. A brain dead corpse on life support looks like an adult human being, but if it can't think or feel or do anything remotely resembling human behavior, is it really alive?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Well duh its alive! What do you think it is? A fucking alien??? It moves! If someone shot a pregnant woman in the stomach, that person would be charged with two counts of murder. But what is the difference if she pays someone to do it? None!
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover Life is self-sustaining, so being supported by machines would NOT be life. Also, could you give your source for two counts of murder for shooting a woman in the stomach? Even if it's true, that situation deprives a mother of any choice to have the child or not, whereas with abortion it is HER choice.
Have you ever heard of involuntary movements, btw? A fetus does not consciously do anything, that's a fact that no amount of faith can dispute.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 OKay! So a baby "involuntary" sucks its thumb in the womb in the first couple of months! I'm curious: What would you say to an abortion survivor?
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover Do you have evidence for this "thumb-sucking baby"? I already asked you for one source in your last post, and you haven't provided, so I'm a bit skeptical of your claims on this issue.
What would I need to say to an abortion survivor? Your parents didn't want you here, like tons of couples who choose to be neglectful parents instead of having an abortion? Technically, we're all abortion survivors, since nature (aka your god) spontaneously aborts 50% of all pregnancies.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 I"m going to tell you right now to please respect my beliefs. Well those parents could have not had sex and not be stupid. If you dont want a baby dont have sex. If you're afraid of getting preganant dont have sex. Its like abortion is medicine for prostitution. btw I was just saying an example. I dont have a source. But if a woman considers herself to be pregnant with a baby, doesnt that tell you something.....?
94cellolover 1 year ago
@94cellolover Your beliefs are a choice you make, and there are smart choices and stupid choices. I only respect choices and ideas that are deserving of respect. If you think saying your god spontaneously aborts 50% of pregnancies is disrespectful, you should take it up with him, because it's a fact of nature in our world.
"If you don't want a baby don't have sex" is like saying if you don't want to get in a wreck then don't drive. Are you a Catholic against contraception too?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Besides look at pics of abortion on google and you will not see just a tiny "tadpole"
94cellolover 1 year ago
@futurecatholic:
Yep, pretty nice calendar. Is there anything wrong with it?
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
@futurecatholic So is your comment. Why is it that Catholics and Christians always seem to focus solely on "exploitation" of women that usually involves women who make their own choices to appear in calendars, videos, etc? Might it have something to do with the moral superiority you hypocrites often imply?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
Dude, I don't understand why every abortion supporter seems to love calling the unborn "fetuses." So, the thalamus develops in the 3rd trimester. So what??!! Aren't you glad your mother didn't exercise her "freedom to abort" that you espouse?
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 Seriously? The word "fetus" has been used long before abortion was the big issue it is today. It has nothing to do with "dehumanizing" the unborn, but I don't understand why you abortion opponents seem to think calling something unborn is important. To be born is just to emerge from the birth canal, it's a far more arbitrary term than "fetus".
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) And come on... the only reason anyone could be "glad" not to be aborted is because they are living now. If I had been aborted, obviously I wouldn't be around to feel regret or anything. That's kind of like saying, "aren't you glad your mother wasn't barren?" It's not like it matters in any sense, because you're already here, though even if in some alternate reality, they were barren, you wouldn't exist to care. This is one of the dumbest objections to abortion I keep hearing.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Great point!!! I like your comment because you hit the nail on the head. The aborted human isn't around. And, guess what, the mother who had the abortion didn't give the baby a choice. In fact, abortion is completely ANTI-CHOICE! It's murdering the defenseless ones and depriving them of THEIR right to choose whether or not they want to live.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 You're quite dense for a 32 year old, aren't you? Why should a non-conscious mass of tissue cells get a choice? What does that even mean? The only place where choice can be had is with the mother, who is a thinking and feeling organism, as opposed to the fetus. A fetus is defenseless because it is a clump of tissue - it has nothing to defend and no ability to choose! What you're talking about is barely different from a rock.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 The unborn is barely different from a rock? That has got to be the one of the scariest statements I've ever read by a pro-choicer. In fact, this statement reminds me a lot of many statements made by Adolf Hitler. Just out of curiosity, do you advocate the killing of those living who are mentally disabled and cannot fend for themselves or state their own opinions?
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 I could've guessed you'd say that. It's so typical for an anti-choice zealot to label anything outside their very narrow box as dehumanizing, immoral, Nazi, etc. Yet this doesn't change the facts. Go ahead, explain to me the difference between a fetus and a rock. The only thing you can state with certainty is that a fetus will eventually become a human and a rock will not. But is this alone reason to value a fetus, because of what it MAY become if left uninterrupted?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) If potential life is such a big concern, why does your god seem content with letting thousands upon thousands of miscarriages occur every single day? Why did he command his chosen people to kill FULLY BORN children in the Old Testament? Abortion at least has a rationale that is disputable, but the Judeo-Christian god kills without mercy or reason. And you think the things I say are scary? Lol!
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 You are calling ME the anti-choice zealot? You are the one who thinks unborn children shouldn't have the choice! Sheesh.
Rocks are inanimate non-living groupings of atoms. Fetuses are organic LIVING beings with everything required for life as a born human. Rocks could never have opinions, make decisions. Unborn humans have that potential, but people like you want to deny them the right. So, after all, who is really the anti-choice nazi?
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 I don't think "unborn children shouldn't have the choice", I think they CAN'T have choice, because biologically speaking, they don't have the right equipment to make decisions. Why is this so hard for you to get?
I just already said that potential for life is the one difference in a rock and a fetus, and then I asked you why potential life should be sacred. You haven't answered that question.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 A philosophical question: Should the defenseless be protected? Do you intend to protect your children from bad things happening to them when they are young and don't understand? Or, does the fact that they don't have the maturity level to have a choice mean that you let whatever happens to them happen?
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 No, it's not a philosophical question, and you're misunderstanding what the question is. I'm asking what the point is in defending what DOESN'T NEED DEFENDING. You act like you're saving unborn children from horrible death, like most anti-choicers believe, and yet you haven't refuted a single statement I've made about prenatal development. If thought and feeling don't matter to you, then what DOES make something alive?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 I got that from the beginning already, man.
Potential for life is the one difference b/t rocks and fetuses? Gotcha, so the fetus isn't alive in your opinion until it's born? Human life is sacred and should be protected, wouldn't you agree? The unborn are human, therefore, they should be protected. Very simple.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 No, you dumbass, I never said birth is what makes it valuable. You haven't gotten shit from the very beginning. You either keep misunderstanding, ignoring my comments, or you're just trying to marginalize me again, because of your belief in some imaginary thing aside from thought and feeling that makes something alive, which you have yet to quantify. Something is alive when it has the capacity for thought and feeling. I've said that like, what, 50 times now?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 If you're 3 year-old son was walking into a busy intersection, should the fact that he doesn't know the difference of the consequences keep you from protecting his inability to choose wisely? This is the logic you are using. Just let the kid die. He won't even know what hit him!
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 Jesus tap-dancing Christ... are you really this stupid? I've tried to be civil, but you keep making the same mistakes. Let me emphasize this for you, so maybe it'll sink in: A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD CAN BOTH THINK AND FEEL. THEREFORE, A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD IS A LIVING THING. THUS I WOULD PROTECT THE CHILD BECAUSE IT IS A LIVING THING THAT NEEDS PROTECTION.
Yet again, it isn't clear what you think you're protecting a fetus from. What will "death" mean for a fetus if it can't think or feel?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 You haven't answered my previous Q, though.
If you don't know the difference between a rock and an unborn human, then you are truly uneducated. Maybe you just don't know? Or is it that you disagree with modern science?
Go and read about embryological development. There is sensation, a heartbeat, sleeping patterns, and all kinds of things going on very early in the development.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 Hahaha, I've read more on embryological development than you have, because you're still ignoring the facts about the hypothalamus and brain hemispheres. If you don't deny those facts, then sensation, heartbeat, and sleeping patterns SHOULD NOT MATTER. If the brain is unable to process information, then all you have is an animated sack of cells, living off the mother, like I said before. Modern science supports this, not your faith-based nonsense.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Whatever dude. People get double murder convictions all the time for killing pregnant women. Just why do you think this is? It's because TWO people were killed, and you know it. It's damned nonsense that, in America, we are quick to convict a murderer of killing an unborn baby (or fetus, if that's the term), yet we tell a mother she can do THE SAME THING to her own baby.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 Choice makes all the difference. The person who murders a pregnant woman's unborn fetus is held accountable for depriving the mother of her choice to have a child. How well do you know your bible? Exodus 21:22-23 deals with a similar scenario. Through careless wrestling, two men cause a woman to miscarry. How does the bible treat a miscarriage? Like property. The husband is given money if his wife loses the "unborn baby", and life is only taken if the mother is harmed.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) Your god no more considers the destruction of a fetus to be murder than I do. Your ignorance of prenatal development AND your own scriptures is what is damned nonsense, I'd say.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Fine with me. I see every life as important, and everyone deserves a chance to live. That's all.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 I would agree, when it comes to conscious human beings. What is life, anyway? Is it much of a life to be sustained on a feeding tube, while brain dead? I don't call that life, I'd call that an animated corpse. Thought and feeling are tremendous components of life, I bet you'd agree. Imagining life without them is... well, ridiculous. A mass of tissue cells that cannot think or feel cannot rightly be called life, I'd say. Why do you think it should be?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Not too sure about Exodus 21, though I will read it and get back to you.
Gotcha, so we can just a fetus as being a real human life depending on the person who "chooses" to kill it??? What about the choice of the unborn?
You are legitimizing the butchering of millions of children by saying the thalamus doesn't develop fully until the 3rd trimester? That's pretty low, man.
The fact that there's even a debate about this absolutely floors me.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 I guess you haven't been paying attention to a word I've said. No, human life is not contingent on choice. I do not agree that murdering a pregnant woman is murdering two people. I think depriving a woman of her unborn fetus is punishable, because it removes the choice to have the child from her. The unborn is nowhere near conscious enough to have the ability for choice, it's scientifically not possible.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) The hypothalamus allows the transfer of information through the brain, but before the third trimester, the brain hemispheres are not synchronous either, so there really IS no ability for thought or feeling. You can deny this fact all you want, but it would be like saying that a computer can still calculate when none of its wires are connected. I am not legitimizing murder at all, you are just trying to marginalize me because of your own personal beliefs and biases.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 LOL, OK, dude. I deny ZERO facts. Are you, however, going to deny the FACT that a woman who does not have an abortion and goes forward and has her baby has saved that baby's life?
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 You don't deny that the hypothalamus doesn't form until the third trimester and that the bilateral hemispheres are not in synch until then too? You don't deny that prenatal science tells us that no organism can think or feel before that biological "equipment" is correctly connected and functioning? If you don't deny this, then you should really stop saying "baby", since a fetus is nothing like a baby.
That's not a fact. A fetus is not alive in the same sense a baby is.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 Very very scary comment, my friend. And, dangerous. Whether they can think or not is besides the point. We as caring humans have to think for those who cannot think for themselves.
I didn't know that "alive" had multiple definitions. Do you seriously equate the unborn with a big ball of cells almost like it's a cancer that can just be removed? Incredible, truly. Wow.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 The ability to think is besides the point? I completely disagree. Are you planning on defending plants from being destroyed? They can't think. What about corpses? I'm pretty sure they can't think either. There's a point where "defending the defenseless" loses its admirable qualities and just becomes absurd. What are you defending a fetus from? Again, for it to die, it would need to be alive first, but with no thought or feeling, how alive is it really?
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 You said in your previous comment that "choice makes all the difference."
Depriving a woman of her unborn fetus is punishable because it removes the choice to have the child? It doesn't remove the choice to have the child. It removes THE CHILD. It kills the child. What about the child's choice? You haven't answered that one.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 I have answered that one multiple times, but you keep ignoring it because you have no facts on your side. A fetus is not a child. It is a mass of tissue cells that cannot think or feel. Choice and rights can only exist between conscious beings. Even if we're talking about animal rights, they are rights agreed upon by the owner and society - THE ANIMAL CANNOT COMMUNICATE A CHOICE and probably doesn't have the brain power to choose in the first place.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) Like the responsibility for a pet is placed on its owner, the responsibility for a fetus falls with the mother. It is HER decision what to do with it, NOT YOURS. If it is nothing but a clump of tissue cells, she has a right to prevent it from becoming anything more, if she chooses. It's not killing a child, because to kill implies that there is life in the first place, but a fetus is not living. It's a parasite in the womb, for lack of a better word - living off the mother.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 A mass of tissue cells. That is a lie. There is a heart beat at 4 weeks, my friend. That is a fact. How is that not a fact on my side of the argument? Abortion stops a beating heart.
jrichard1977 1 year ago
@jrichard1977 And what is a heart? A mass of cells. For the heart to beat is no special deal, but it's so frequently overblow by anti-choice fanatics like yourself, because you still think the heart is where personality and thought comes from - you're so stuck in the primitive nonsense of your ancient superstitions. A heart can beat inside a brain dead corpse thanks to medical technology, but does that make the corpse alive? Nope. Yet again you fail to understand science and basic logic.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
When you discuss the different stages of life development, you ask the open-ended question (in so many words) "when can we define the living organism to have value outside of the mother's control?" The problem is that there is a large grey-area of where true self-awareness begins and when it becomes unethical to terminate the pregnancy. Obviously, the early stages can be easily identified as non-human, but I think the pro-life argument is that since there is any ambiguity...
zapstrung 1 year ago
@zapstrung ...we should not attempt to draw any distinction because of the unavoidable risk of conducting unethical behavior.
zapstrung 1 year ago
There is some ambiguity, I will agree, but it comes at a point long after most abortions are performed. Science tells us a fetus does not even have the biological ability to think or feel before the third trimester, so there's certainly no possibility of self-awareness at that stage. The ambiguity poses more of a problem for the issue of personal responsibility vs. maternal responsibility. Mothers are responsible for their children post-birth up until they hit an often arbitrary age of reason.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) We don't consider it acceptable for a mother to kill her baby, even though she is responsible for it - as it cannot value itself - because by that point the biological abilities are in tact and the infant can think and feel. Whatever ambiguities occur, we know a point at which there is no possibility of self-awareness and a point at which there is self-awareness, however vague.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 So are you completely against partial-birth abortions except for extreme life or death situations? This is important because when you state "ambiguity poses more of a problem for the issue of personal responsibility vs. maternal responsibility. Mothers are responsible for their children post-birth up until they hit an often arbitrary age of reason," I interpret your position to be that the ambiguity of consciousness is secondary to the ambiguity of the mother's responsibility.
zapstrung 1 year ago
I am against partial-birth abortions, except for those extreme situations. Responsibility falls somewhere when the child cannot yet account for itself morally, and I think it falls to the mother, just as responsibility for a pet falls to its owner. However, with children, they will reach an age of consciousness and reason where responsibility shifts from the mother to them. When exactly this happens is relative, but not even close to the trimesters when abortions are performed.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
@TaylorX04 I may be misunderstanding you, but following that line of logic...if a mother has a fetus that is around the age of early consciousness but there is ambiguity regarding her responsibility as a mother, an abortion is justified.
zapstrung 1 year ago
I think the responsibility of the mother is closed tied to the development of the fetus. If it is under the first three trimesters, and has no biological means for consciousness, I do believe abortion is justified. But once the hypothalamus fully forms and the bilateral hemispheres of the brain are synchronous, there becomes the possibility of consciousness, and I think that is much more of a grey area.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
(cont'd) Personally, I only support abortion up to the third trimester, not because I think immediately after that fetuses suddenly develop consciousness, but because I know that prior to that point, things are not wired correctly yet to even allow for consciousness to develop. The overwhelming majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester though, so there's not such a proximity to ambiguity.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
Isn't it intersting that "Pro Lifers" have problems with pre-natal abortions, but rarely with post-natal ones?
Kynos1 2 years ago
AAAAARGH - move that bldy calendar off your wall for vids or move the camera! That reflections is highly irritating (Now I see her tits, now I'm flashed) Arrrrr!
8DX 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
24 hours after intercourse fertilization begins...Eye color,hair color,IQ,personality,facial features all start at this point...Thats DNA...That determines an individual & no two DNAs are alike..You are killing an individual which will never get a chance to live again...We don't get recycled ....We get one shot at life...When you abort that zygote,you are killing an individual..All the big words & scientific studies in the world cannot dispell that fact.You see the world through atheistic eyes
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
No, you are not killing an individual, you are killing the blueprint of an individual. I hope you don't ever masturbate, because you kill tons of blueprints then too.
Seeing through atheistic eyes is seeing through intelligent, unblinded eyes. I'll take science and research over superstition and faith any day.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
If you maturbate,there are no eggs fertilized...You don't make sense...Its all the same rhetoric that I hear from the pro-choice crowd constantly..I'm not going to stay & argue with you..I have my own channel & comments that I have to field tonight...I will just stick to what I said & let the viewers decide..Life is a miracle...Save the babies...Gerard Paul
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
You're a dumbass. A zygote, sperm, egg, and fetus are all potential life, nothing more. When you masturbate, you violate your own principle of wanting to preserve the development of potential life.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I wonder how many of you christian american pro lifers is against the death penalty ?
It should always, always be the pregnants choice, never religion or state.
I think you should seek out women who has been raped and became pregnant, look them in the eye and say, they must carry the baby to terms, because its a miracle.
ueks69 2 years ago
I'm against the death penalty and I'm pro-life...in answer to your question.
My brother was murdered ( at 17 ..on his way to college that fall) by someone in cold blood because he thought my brother was trying to talk to his girlfriend.
And I wouldn't wish death on this man...so I'm pro-life all the way.
I was also raped when I was in college...but a guy who was supposed to be my friend.
It is what it is...jacked up stuff happens to people every day.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
@theprofileguy - so you would insist that the 9 year old who was raped by her stepfather who was expecting twins should go through with the pregnancy? She thankfully found a doctor to help her but both HER and the DOCTOR were excommunicated from their church (catholic), and yet the stepfather was NOT (true story). There are some cases where abortion is necessary to save the mother. A woman should be allowed to abort (if she wishes) if she is raped.
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
Wow,I guess nobody watched this video for a couple of months.Well what about the 99% of abortions that aren't for rape,but are for selfish reasons
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
profileguy - yup, selfish reasons and using it as (unfortunately) many people do as 'contraception' is not a good thing.
Both sides of the argument are strong. However, in the world we live in - the uneducated carry on squirting out babies, who aren't wanted, who are brought up with no education too, and have more babies. This is pretty awful too. Perpetuate misery with broken families, and overpopulating the planet, or be responsible. Rape situations are exempt -women should have the choice
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
It's obvious why. "If I can sell you on the rape thing...then you have to agree with the other 99% by default"
Foolishness. What's the point of arguing. People who are for the right to life for ALL humans are not going to change...and people who are for the right to murder for convienance are not going to change.
So what's the point?
nocturne1980 2 years ago
I'm not arguing!!! I AGREE that 99% of the time abortion is terrible and MOST of the time people do not use it in desperation. If you are pro life, then why not pro life of the 9 yr old girl? Thats what I don't get? Why if someone is allowed to have an abortion in a rape situation should ANYONE be allowed to get an abortion? Like you say, people should be responsible, and if they don't want to risk getting pregnant, should not have sex. So the abortion rules should be massively strict.
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You were a zygote..You were an embryo...you were a fetus....Gee,look at you now...A heartless human...But a human nevertheless...Foca will take abortion out of the hands of the government ...Totally...All restrictive laws will be gone...Life is a miracle...Save the babies....Gerard Paul
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
So what, your argument is that a zygote deserves the right to continue it's developmental cycle, uninterrupted? What do you base such an argument on?
You know what, forget it. You think "life is a miracle", so I can see you're not into having intelligent discussions, just retarded theological ones.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Don't worry prolife brainwashed friend, we'll have the 15 billion kids running around before long when you have your way and every redneck in the world has 10 kids, lives on welfare and the children grow up to be ignorant like their parents, and hate their lives because the parents don't give a shit about them, it was just a one night stand. There is a lot more pain and suffering forcing life into the world that wasn't intended to be here in the first place. If god cared he would do something
jorsher123 2 years ago
You will never be able to change the minds of fanatical pro-choicers...just as they can not change the mind of fanatical pro-lifers. When you worship death it comsumes you. When you worship life it comsumes you.
Life is more than a miracle....it's God's will.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Prolifers fanatical? I believe its the prochoicers who are constantly on the defensive...Is it some kind of internal subconscious guilt?
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
perhaps fanatic is not the right word...for sure it is not. a more appropiate term would be passionate.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
they know it's wrong to kill babies...that's why they have to fight so hard to hold on to the belief that babies are not humans until they are born.
If they admit or even consider that human life begins before birth....then they admit to condoning murder...which is something many will never do.
It's like how europeans convinced themselves that africans were not humans...in order to do the inhumane things they did during the american slave trade. Dehumanise to justifiy.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Yes & how Hitler convinced the German people that Jews were less than human
theprolifeguy 2 years ago
And you know it's wrong to deprive women of their right to their own bodies and favor a mass of unthinking, unfeeling tissue that is not of any relation to you... that's why you fight so hard to hold onto the belief that life begins at conception, which is nothing but an article of faith.
An embryo is not a human being. It is a step along the process that leads to a human being. Yet your god openly condones the murder of adults in his holy book, which you've convinced yourself isn't true.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I don't believe in the death penalty.....even when my brother was murdered...I didn't wish that for his killer.
As a woman, I feel that the right to my own body...means I choose who to sleep with with the full knowledge that contraceptives are not 100% effective and I could get pregnant. If I 100% don't want to get pregnant...than I use self control and don't have sex.
People need to man up and start thinking responsibly, and making responsible choices.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
You act like only irresponsible people have abortions. What about those who have become pregnant after being raped? What about those who need abortion to save their life, because the pregnancy is ectopic?
I agree that contraception is preferable to abortion, but there are plenty of instances where a woman is not given the opportunity to make responsible decisions.
Your arguments are only from emotion so far. Do you have any facts that abortion is "murder"? Somehow I doubt it...
TaylorX04 2 years ago
I speak only from what I know. I know that most abortions are not because the woman was raped or had an ectopic pregnancy. You need to keep it real.
As someone who has exprienced rape...I can speak from what I know. You can not. You have not experienced rape or an ectopic pregnancy.
I speak from what I have been told by friends, and they have told me they aborted for none of the reasons you just mentioned. The reality is that most abortions occur because of women who are not responsible
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Keep it real? You do not have the right to forbid women who have been raped or had ectopic pregnancies from getting abortions, no matter how much of a minority they are. I am not pretending to be an authority on rape or ectopic pregnancies, but I have just as much right to defend those women who want abortions as any other person.
You are just a self-righteous bitch who uses her own personal experience to impose her views on the rest of society. That's how I keep it real.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Insults? Getting a bit emotional? Which I find interesting since you can't seem to muster any emotion for the children that are being killed. Well I wont return the favor by throwing slander at you. Like I said....you can't change anyone's mind on this issue...no matter what stance they have taken
nocturne1980 2 years ago
They are not children, they are masses of tissue. Your poor excuses for calling them children fail on all counts. They cannot think, feel, speak, or behave like children at all. Keep it real, remember.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Your arguments are from a lack of emotion. Any time you end the existance something that is alive...you are killing that thing.
A fetus has a heart beat...it is alive...it is separate from it's mother.
Because someone has no voice...does that give us the right to destory it?
Science changes drastically with each generation...whites used science to 'prove' that blacks weren't human. Same thing you're doing now...only your hated group is the unborn.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
A lack of emotion? No, I just invest my emotion into the real ethical issues of the mother's rights.
A fetus is entirely dependent on its mother for survival, it is not a separately self-sustained lifeform. If it is removed, it will die without medical assistance. This makes it more of a parasite than an independent human being.
Fuck you. "Whites" didn't use science to prove shit. Science endorses equality, because it shows we all are descended out of Africa.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
a 'parasite'....wow...I have proven my point.
And please set your hate aside and do the research. Whites did try to use science to justify their treatment of non whites. You can't make that up when it can be easily proven.
You are just angry because you think I'm implying this somehow reflects badly on you....which I'm not and it doesn't....unless you are racist.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
I wondered if you would twist what I'm saying, as most anti-choicers do. It IS a parasite in the sense that it is dependent on the mother and uses nutrients and resources from the mother to survive. You can't deny that.
I know SOME whites tried to use science to justify discrimination, but as I already explained, they did not understand science. They made shit up. I am angry that you try to pin it all on whites who used "science", as if there weren't many more who used the bible.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Yes and people of a like mind will use the bible to kill and do many other things that are horrible. Hateful people can and will use just about anything they can get their hands on to further their hate. And you say they didn't understand science...that's like people who say "oh...yes they used religion to kill and justify their goals....but they just didn't understand religion."
To each his or her own. Your words are proof enough. You say you don't hate...but then you display it freely.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
(cont'd)
Some people tried to say science supported their racist views, but they distorted science for their own bigotry. You say whites like all white people held this racism, when you know better. And you can't tell me you wouldn't be offended if I spoke of blacks in a similarly gross generalization.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
And surely not all whites of that time felt this way....but many did...even many religious (the catholic church for example) whites felt this way.
You can say whatever you want about blacks.....just make sure it can be supported. Either way...I won't get offended...just as I didn't when you started showing your true intelligence by resorting to cursing at me.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Hahaha, if you think intelligence is measured by the curse words someone says, then you should just walk away. I don't care to discuss things with a child who values self-censorship over self-expression, no matter how crude.
I could have just as arbitrarily said you show your true intelligence when you told me to "keep it real".
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Pro-choicers worship death? How sad it must be to think so lowly of your fellow humans. Unfortunately for your retarded statement, a lot of anti-choicers worship death when it comes to the death penalty.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The reality is that abortion is selfish....it puts all the power of choice into the woman's hands. The baby has no choice and the father of the baby has no choice.
One day...once we have truly evolved (pun intended)....we will teach our children about this dark time in our history when we condoned the genocide of children,.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
The "baby" has no choice because 1) it's a fetus, not a baby, and 2) it has no ability to think or have a choice. The father of the fetus does get to have some say, but since he is not the one carrying it inside him, he does not get to dictate what the woman gets to do with her body. I'm surprised you fail to understand this.
No, we'll teach them about the absurdities of religious faith and how people once believed a mass of tissue was the equivalent of a human child.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
So people who have no ability to think...should have no choice? Wow. If you follow that line of reasoning, then people with severe brain damage or are comatose should have no choice or have anyone look out for their best interest.
It has nothing to do with faith. It has everything to do with respecting life and being decent to other humans.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
they should have some1 looking out for their best interest. that should be the mother. it should be the mothers choice
cheetmeister 2 years ago
okay...it should be the mother's choice weather the child lives or dies. How is that looking out for their best interest?
I grew up in poverty and struggling, yet I am so grateful that I got a chance to experience all the things I have in life...the good and the bad. Who are we to deny someone else that right because it would be inconvient for the mother.
How about just keeping our legs closed and pratcing some self control..then we wouldn't have to justify murder.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
so you're against the use of contraception too?
cheetmeister 2 years ago
I'm against grown adults behaving like 2 year olds, who have only a very limited concept of cause and effect. That's what I'm against.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Are we so weak and chaotic as a spieces...that we can't practice self control?
I don't want to be a drug addict...so I don't use drugs.
I don't want to go to jail or prison...so I don't break the law.
I wan't to keep my lights and water on...so I pay my utility bills.
I don't want to get pregnant....so I don't have sex.
It's as simple as that. No contraceptive is fail proof. I know people who have gotten pregnant on all forms of BC...myself included on one method.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
I don't want to get pregnant....so I don't have sex.
I know people who have gotten pregnant on all forms of BC...myself included on one method.
you're contradicting yourself here
cheetmeister 2 years ago
how? I got pregnant in college when I was young and without much wisdom....thought birth control would keep me safe.
I don't feel that way anymore. I know that I can get pregnant on birth control, because of my experience,.
So what is the contradiction? Reaching?
nocturne1980 2 years ago
thought birth control would keep me safe.
so do we both agree preventing someone from having a child when they are not ready is keeping them safe?
cheetmeister 2 years ago
No. We don't agree. See I held this way of thinking when I was young and without much experience.
The solution is so simple is infantile. If you don't want to get pregnant...you want to eliminate all possibilities of conception...then don't have sex.
Do we worship sex and pleasure? Is life about how many orgasms one can get....or about getting your nut off?
No one is ever really ready to have a child, especially in this culture of anti-family.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
you can go around preaching abstinence all you want but everyone knows that it doesn't work that way.
that's why we have birth control. yes it doesn't work 100% but it works well enough
cheetmeister 2 years ago
YEah it does work that way....people do and can control themselves. Just because some can't doesn't mean we aren't capibile of higher level thinking.
Are you telling me that you are unable to control your own body?
That's like some pedophile saying he couldn't control himself and just had to have sex with some kid ...because he desired it.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
pedophilia is against the law, sex between consenting adults is not against the law. please don't compare the two.
of all people you should get this, cause you have gone through this experience in your life.
you cannot change the past, you can make decisions to change your future for the better. a woman should have the right to make such a decision.
cheetmeister 2 years ago
pedophilia was once considered okay....and pedophiles feel they should have a right to their desires...they don't feel they are doing anything wrong, because they feel the child wants it too..and it's just an expression of love.
Geez I know too much about these sickos..comes with working in law enforcement I guess. But I digress.....lol...it's their bodies right? Who are we to tell them what they can or can't do with their own bodies?
nocturne1980 2 years ago
oh...I forgot..it's not just about their bodies.,..because their actions are affecting an innocent child who...certainly doesn't want to be molested or raped by an adult. ...Right?
I feel the same about abortion. It's not just about an adults body...it's about both...mother and child. And abortion has lasting affect on the woman. I've never met a woman who had an abortion who didn't tell me she always thinks about it, and she feels trapped.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
again you compare something that's illegal with sex. it might have been accepted at some time but not now.
a fetus is not a child.
u should meet more ppl :D
neways i agree lets leave it at that
cheetmeister 2 years ago
I'll just respectfully agree to disagree. I know we could go on and on with this one...neither one moving an inch, and I'm okay with that. I do appreciate your level of respect...not debasing yourself by using insults or cheap jabs.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
So please stay home from now on if you want to eliminate all possibility of being killed in a car accident. Don't fly anywhere if you want to avoid being killed in a plane crash. Don't eat anything if you want to eliminate the possibility of food poisoning. Don't talk to anyone if you want to avoid the chance that they could stalk you and murder you.
See where paranoid abstinence can get you?
TaylorX04 2 years ago
no I don't see. sex is not inevitable..like travel or eating food.
you really are reaching on this one while condoning irresponsible behavior.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Travel is not inevitable and neither is being sociable. I am not reaching to condone "irresponsible" behavior, I'm showing you where your line of thinking leads you. Sure, people can abstain from sex if they want to, but why should they have to? I've been having sex for years now, always with contraception, and I've still not gotten anyone pregnant. If some day I wind up on the narrow end of the odds and do knock up a girl, I will do the responsible thing. The chance is next to zero though.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
so if I enjoy drugs...then I sure not practice abstinence...but moderation?
I control my body, my body doesn't control me. I guess I'm more 'evolved' ...as you might say. :0)
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Yes, you exercise control over your body when you choose moderation and know when to stop. I don't use drugs because I don't see any point in it, not because I value abstinence over moderation or personal freedom. I drink, but I know my limits too.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Does self-control mean you deprive yourself of something you enjoy? It seems to me that when you do that, you still give that thing power over yourself. What people need to learn is moderation, not abstinence.
And so what if no contraception is fool proof? Are you going to stop driving your car because there's a chance you could be hit and killed on the road? It may be a slim chance, but the chance is there, and this is the same case with contraception.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Lol, do you think anyone who is severely brain damaged or comatose has NO ability to think? I'm talking about irreversible brain death, where a person is incapable of thought and therefore incapable of choice. In those cases, you can keep the body alive, but all that will remain is an empty shell.
Thanks for bringing this up, actually, it further illustrates my point on the irrelevance of "life" in the issue of abortion.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
So someone who has never walked is different than someone who once had the ability but lost it?
I'd say they are both the say...only difference is ...one has the experience of memory and the other only has the dream.
By 6 weeks of life...a 'fetus' has a beating heart. You would have me believe that despite science prooving that she/he is alive....it in fact is not.
What are your motives? What drives your hate? Because your words show me you have hate festuring in you.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Your example is irrelevant and unrelated to my comment. Someone who is brain dead is a shell sustained by machines. When the brain dies, their body will die shortly thereafter if the machinery is disconnected. A fetus has the biological equipment, but it is not developed enough to allow it brain function until the third trimester. I don't care if its heart is beating by the 6th week. A heartbeat is simply blood pumping into an organ.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
(cont'd)
If you want to call that "life", then fine, but as I said, life is irrelevant in the debate. We're talking about what makes an organism valuable enough to have its own rights. You don't grant rights to bacteria or insects, do you? They're even more alive than a fetus.
Please don't try to psychoanalyze me. There is no hate, you're just trying to paint me as a hateful person because you have an agenda you can't see past (or refuse to see past).
TaylorX04 2 years ago
nocturne1980 - so if the pregnancy and birth would kill the mother (ie, the nine year old who was raped by her stepfatehr and was expecting twins), would you still think she shouldn't have an abortion? There are always grey areas - would you kill the mother to save the unborn fetus? 25% of all conception results in natural reabsorption. Natural abortion in other words.
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
lol..I can't even remember what I posted, it was so long ago. My beliefs are mine..and nothing is going to change it. As I'm sure my replying to your comment isn't going to shake or move you either. So what's the point?
nocturne1980 2 years ago
I believe an atheist put it better than anyone I've heard(even theist).
A woman's right to control her womb does not supercede another human's right to control it's ENTIRE body, it's life.
The burden of proof lay on the outside force wishing to cause harm or take the life of another. The burden does not fall on the person wishing to maintain their existance or not be harm.
Because the person has no voice to protest does not negate this.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
I agree with you though nocturne1980! - but I do think there are exceptions. ie, with the 9 year old girl (who was expecting twins - a nine yr old body cannot support this). Why should she be sentenced to death because of the cruel abuse of her stepfather? Surely you wouldn't choose her to end her life out of no fault of her own? There are always exceptions to situations where a large percentage of the time the 'abortion' is inexcusable. I would be interested to know what you think.
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
If her body can't handle it..then the babies would be absorbed. Why can't she have a C-section? I agree in cases such as this..it's really horrible what these girls and women have had to endure. The will have trauma either way...abortion or no. And to think that an abortion fixes things...well you have no ideal how it would affect her mentally.
I know a woman a girl who wasn't raped but got pregnant when her body was really young. She had the baby. Both are fine.
nocturne1980 2 years ago
Hmm, thats not always the case (reabsorption). Nine year old bodies are not able to carry a baby, let alone two full term. Have you seen what twins do to a body? My sister had twins. Yes, I know abortions affect people mentally, but a nine year old is not mature enough to bring another life into the world - she is still a child hersef. Just because her body can get pregnant, doesn't mean she should have to endure pregnancy. I think in cases like this abortion is the lesser of two evils.
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
"When we choose the lesser of two evils....we are still choosing evil."
nocturne1980 2 years ago
But isn't it evil to kill the already very aware child by making her have the babies?
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
"Sorry little girl, but you will have to die because you were raped by your stepfather and so you'll have to suffer because you do'nt have a choice and didn't have a choice to be sexually brutalized. Come on, its not that bad, you got to live 9 years and most of that was filled with the abuse of a parent - at least you're bringing new life into the world, bye" -yeah, I can see how you would think its ok for the girl to suffer more. (????)
alittlebitofperil 2 years ago
It was appearent to me from the initial comment that you were just baiting for an arguement...and like I said then..what's the point? My views are not going to change and yours are unlikely to change either. So what's the point?
nocturne1980 2 years ago
@nocturne1980 At 6 weeks brain waves beginng. go to EHD.org
its a cool site!
ZoeyK86 1 year ago
Made some comments on her video...
My conclusion is, don't argue with christian republican loony who gets her information from Fox News.
kormyniska 2 years ago
The term "partial birth abortion" refers to an extremely rare procedure performed in less than 1% of late term abortions, which themselves are a tiny portion of all abortion.
If the fetal skull is to weak to push throug the birth canal, or if the muscles in the birth canal do not relax properly during induced labour, the doctor will collapse the skull in order to easy the delivery of the dead fetus.
The ban on partial birth abortion does not prevent these late term abortions.
pirbird14 2 years ago
Late term abortions are almost always a matter of extreme threat to the would be mother, or to a late discovery that the fetus will be severely malformed - missing a brain for instance. Some examples can be seen at aheartbreakingchoice . com
Now, because of the ban, doctors must dismember the fetus inside the womb, at much greater risk to the health of the woman - all because the fetus fetishists were able to raise an hysterical outcry about "babies being killed in the birth canal".
pirbird14 2 years ago
Pathetic AND dishonest. When someone {an antiabortionist in this case} resorts to base dishonesty and outright trickery and lying to support their argument, it shows how invalid their entire argument is.
So we should be thanking Taffy.
TheTruePooka 2 years ago
excellent
UncertainTruth 2 years ago
LOL u owned her
SophistAtheist 2 years ago
lol at the last part. nicely done.
brainburrito 2 years ago
I like the calender you have in the background xD
Stoffee666 2 years ago
Angelshoulders - Nazi germany was committed by people to people. And it was done to cause pain to the mothers, not to stop a child. It was don't AGAINST the mothers and the Jews. you cannot compare genocide to a difficult choice made by a Woman.
Natika101 2 years ago 3
Or with a mother who cannot support the child and have a child want for food and clothes? Or be born into a brutal house hold? Or have a mother who constantly resents the child or is reminded of why she had the child?
Sometimes contraception is not always an option, in the example of Rape or abusive spouses.
Natika101 2 years ago
The term Pro-Life is a false hood. Whose life are you in pro of? Not the Mothers thats for sure.
Our bodies miscarry if the inside is not suitable for a child, if the female is ill or stressed or too thin or in a brutal relationship (inevitably a kick to the stomach)
Why can we not miscarry when the outside is not suitable for a child? Would you really want the child born into the world and have to be placed in foster care?
Natika101 2 years ago 2
I guess with this brain-function "excuse" someone who is injured in a car accident and has their brain damaged deserves to be treated like trash and killed. The issue here is that every human DESERVES to live (unless they have done evil like murder or possibly another depraved act). We can't avoid the fact that every human, after being conceived, TAKES TIME to develop and has a RIGHT to live in the meantime. Puberty is the TRUE final completion of development, shall we deem children nonhuman?
SouthernCelticGirl 2 years ago
Children can both think and feel, which is around 90% of what we identify as human, like I said in the video. Development is one factor to consider, but no arbitrarily.
And if someone is brain dead and consuming medical resources just to make the family feel better, I do think that is wrong. They're loving a shell of a human being, nothing more.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
The nazis used some pretty similar reasoning as to what this guy uses to ok abortion in his mind, in deciding that jews aren't people. One thing this guy does incorrectly is insult. Since this is an argument type video. It doesn't prove anything to insult other than that you don't have a very good basis for your beliefs and you really just want to believe quite the opposite. In other someone who insults shows a form of brainwashing themselves. I do give one extra star for how smart he is.
jamesdragonforce 2 years ago
Hahaha, are you trying to say that the Nazis used science and facts to decide that the Jews weren't people? That's all I've used, coupled with a little reason and logic. The funny thing to me is that you go on to tell me insulting doesn't get me anywhere. What could be more insulting than insinuating that I'm on par with the Nazis? Climb down off your high horse, dude.
Oh, and DragonForce sucks hairy donkey balls.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
You're right jamesdragonforce, and also many of the Jews Hitler killed were adults and teens who had some HOPE of defending themselves. Even a small child walking around is stronger and more self-sufficient than a preborn child. Hitler killed 6 million Jews, a minority being babies, as opposed to the 51 million preborn babies slaughtered here in the U.S. I would imagine a gas chamber is way LESS painful than being ripped apart and/or having your head stabbed before your brains are sucked out!
SouthernCelticGirl 2 years ago
How many abortions are 3rd term abortions?
How many spontaneous abortions are there?
At what stage does a fetus form a brain?
Are you arguing against all abortions just or just 3rd term abortions?
Just wondering, since you gave the number of abortions, but then used imagery of seldom done 3rd term abortions to try and nail your argument home.
Is drinking a lot of caffeine during a pregnancy voluntary manslaughter to you if there ends up being a spontaneous abortion?
brutus149 2 years ago
Great video and I agree with you 100%. Now may I ask for you calendar on your back wall when you are finished with it?
Dwicker64 2 years ago
i am all for it in the first 22 weeks, after i think it is wrong. great arguments . props.
freethinker3161 2 years ago