LDS Temple Film Mocking Christians Preachers - Paid Clergy Double Standard

[NaDopros]

As an aside, I just could no longer "raise my arm to the square" and SUSTAIN some fifteen top (corporate) leader dogs, anymore! I say fifteen (15) because even dingleberry Monson is still an apostle, as well as his two counselors (i.e., they are not released from that office of the priesthood, when they are pulled from the Quorum of the Twelve, in order to form The First Presency): so, instead of "The Twelve Apostles", there are actually FIFTEEN of them, in the Mormon Crutch...

[NaDopros]

As an ADDENDUM to my comments about the Mormon-temple Endowment Ceremony, the Protestant Minister "preached for money" (which the New Testament decries, calling it "filthy lucre"). One only has to read the Bible carefully, in order to know that even the apostle Paul earned his own way (as a tentmaker), instead of receiving filthy lucre, for preaching The Gospel.

(I don't think that Monson and Others get their "stipend" as payment for preaching the gospel: they are just paid administrators).

[NaDopros]

I, MYSELF, actually enjoyed that part of The (Temple) Ceremony of The Endowment", back when the "Protestant Minister" was part of the "film" that was shown. I remember, back in the late 1960s, when all of the temples were being re-done, inside, in order to accommodate a motorized movie screen, which scrolled down, as it were, from the ceiling.

This was when GORDON JUMP was a young Mormon actor (who played "Peter", in the Endowment): even that Protestant Minister was LDS & from Spanish Fark...

[scottwins2]

SPIN IT SHAWN SPIN IT!

[awolLDSasap]

The church has been grooming their leaders for a long time. Leadership appointments are one notch above pulling a name out of a hat.

[NaDopros]

@awolLDSasap

And, of course, "nepotism" is alive-and-well, in the Mormon Crutch!

Let's not forget that that ingratiating puppy, Henry B. Eyring, looks like a Beta-Male sucking up to that Alpha-Male Monson, at Gen'l Conference: Eyring, after all, is descended from the same family as the late Camilla EYRING Kimball.

And, of course, there was dead-dog Hinckley, who appointed both of his two sons to positions of authority, in The Chruch: and, after doing so, deftly deflected the charge of nepotism.

[awolLDSasap]

@NaDopros This dynasty keeps growing. It's "families forever" if you're lucky enough to have the right last name.

[DuBarryFilms]

Wow WHAT a deceiver!~ God will not be mocked loser~

[bobbyraejohnson]

Your a dumb ass Shawn is pointing out that the Mormon church bashed first.because you Mormons keep bitching about his facts

[majinish]

So Shawn has a show putting down The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and he gets upset about one video. Hypocrisy much?

[54v115]

Present day: (It is supposed) Apostles of the LDS church receive unknown amounts for their work within the church, and that no ministers receive any monies other than out of pocket expenses. Apostles are placed within mormon owned or mormon friendly Directorships or as Chairmen, where they amass great personal wealth. They also receive extensive financial sums from Book Sales TEN MILLION COPIES or so, sold within their target audience - LDS church membership!

[ImLDSRU2]

@54v115 Where and when the Church operates under principles of United Order, things are/were different. These examples you came up with are all United order types of things.

[54v115]

1888: Wilfred Woodruff SET salaries for Stake Presidents and set up committees to allocate 10% of tithing collected in the stake to be distributed between the Bishops. 1896 April general conference: First Presidency announced an end to salaries for Local Officers and ONLY PAY APOSTLES SET SALARIES. 1904: Stake Presidents were only to receive $300 pa. However up until 1920, some Bishops reported they were still receiving 10% of tithing collected within their stake.

[54v115]

Pre 1844: Stake Presidents charged $1 for patriarchal blessings. This increased to $2. Brigham Young told Bishops to take whatever they wanted from the non-cash Tithing. 1844: John Taylor capped Stake Presidents income at 2% of ALL tithing collected within their stake and Bishops income capped at 8% of non-cash tithing collected. This model of income or salary or drawings lasted for 44 years within the LDS Church, up until 1888.

[ImLDSRU2]

@USAConservative2012 LOL... no, its lies...

[bobbyraejohnson]

Awesome

[ImLDSRU2]

This is baloney. Shawn can't hardly open his mouth without lying.

[glycoboy]

poor sadducees, i've seen President Monson's house, its tiny. one brick wall with a door in the center, built decades ago. they dont do anything except preach and share the gospel hardly... i guarantee NO one here KNOWs a pastor who has served so selfishly as him.. in his early 20's as a bishop he visited non stop the widows and the sick. i've randomly seen him at 3 funerals and at the old folks home. its his full time life and what he does for leisure, serve the Lord

[brotherfrank62]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[glycoboy]

@brotherfrank62 followers of this anti-LDS guy wont know what to do with this verse u quoted & the thousands of New Testament verses that promise blessings/outcome based on CONDITION. as in, doing something, having ur faith manifest through ur life & sacrifice. i know 2 guys in particular who were 'born again' & r off in strange paths.apparently theyre still saved. when they show up to the judgement bar there will be no judgement but a freepass for having once said w/ their lips they loved jesus

[KenM66]

The LDS doesn't have a paid clergy, and the leaders are not rich. They don't live rich lifestyles by any means and nobody can prove that. Many of the LDS leaders are actually making less money than they did in their careers prior.

[bluepastry]

lds is a cult

[rd1999]

don't the GA's that are in in for life live the law of consecration where they will all of their temporal good back to the Church?

[MrBigbear6718]

just by what you guys are saying and wording your comments I choose to believe what this guy has to say because by your actions there is truth, I can see it through your disdain for him because he is an ex lds and he might spill the beans

[LukeAir2008]

You say Thomas Monson is a millionaire. Do you have any proof or evidence of that?

[natta77]

The CES is an educational system to add a spiritual note to LDS students university experience, which is often plagued with temptations to lead a student from the teachings of Christ. It is an institution members of the church are willing to support to bless the lives of their children. Thus, the General Authorities don't get paid, because its their money anyway.

[natta77]

The church leadership in the lower offices in the church do not get paid, it is a service which is temporary, from which they will be released from at some point. As for CES teachers etc, they do not teach in the church, it is NOT a church office.

[natta77]

The Apostles and Prophets do the same thing, it's called the law of consecration. They have placed their own life income into the pool, and use what they need to fulfil their family and church responsibilities. It is not an income, it is an allowance which comes from their own money, because they have placed it with the church.

[natta77]

Hi. I served a mission, which I and my family paid for. But we could not meet the full amount. The missionary donations are placed into a pool, so those who are less financially secure, can be blessed by serving a mission. I was one of those.

[truthseeker1973]

I'm surprised LDS use it as an argument. The OT priests were paid with tithing so they didn't have to worry about getting $ other ways and focus on being a priest. It flies in the face of mormon clergy, because they spend most of their time making $ elsewhere instead of devoting their time to their religion. Basically it's not their priority.

Many mormons I know have made $ their god. idolizing money is actually a normal thing in mormonism. They have there own business college for crap sakes

[kaZerlaZer]

this is ridiculous. they are not paid and anyone who thinks different is greatly deceived. who is this guy anyway? does he have anything better to do than spread lies about another religion? and why do all you guys get so worked up and upset about what Mormons do? just chillax and worry about your own religion

[pearclips]

MormonAnswerMan is so phony & pathetic. When LDS Inc is in trouble MAM cant wait to point the finger at the vatican & say: well were not as bad as them!

[JohnRhysMusician]

They don't get paid dude. They don't even get living expenses. If they want to write books that is there right. Members are never compelled to purchase them.

[pearclips]

@ JohnRhysM. they DO get paid DuuuuUUUUUuuuude! & they love the fact that they can fool dim bulb MORmONS like you so easily, in fact they count on it. Instead of being outraged over their closed books, dumb asses like you still pay tithing & then show up here to exclaim that they are not being paid. they really enjoy that as they say nothing & suck up the cash. IT IS the MOReMONey church, MORmON !

[JohnRhysMusician]

The books aren't as closed as anti-Mormons like to imply. They are audited by Deloitte & Touche on a yearly basis, and several of the executives at D&T are members of the church, so I think if there was something going on we'd find out about it.

[pearclips]

and that suppposed audit does what as far as actual disclosure goes ? those accountant guys would not dare reveal anything! The books are opened when everyone can see the City Creek Center giant luxury condo tower that LDS Inc funds. NT Jesus was constantly caught outdoors. He had no place to lay his head! But He learned His lesson! as MORmON Jesus He has tons of builidngs & real estate holdings !

[balancex3]

very good points made here.

[mormonanswerman]

I do know that Thomas S. Monson worked for Deseret Book. As a teenager, Monson took a job at the printing business his father managed. At the U of U Monson graduated 1948 with a bachelor's degree in business management. His first job was with the Deseret News, advertising executive. He joined the advertising operations of the Newspaper Agency Corporation in 1952. Monson later transferred to the Deseret News Press, beginning as sales manager and eventually becoming general manager.

[mormonanswerman]

He did all these jobs while working for FREE as the busiest bishop in all the world.

[testskriftene]

was he married while he did all of this?

Because it is a biblical principal, that if you are the leader in a church, and fail at home - you fail at church.... that includes too little time at home....

[mormonanswerman]

You might want to point out where it says that in the Bible. I mean, I believe that, but because my LDS Leaders (Apostles and Prophets) have actually said that. They have said that "No success can compensate for failure in the home." But I have NOT read that in the Bible, so...?

Family comes first is a slogan in my church. Not church comes first. FAMILY comes first. That's a principle that I live by, and if I have special family needs that affect my ability in a calling, I would get released.

[nelipotfootfree]

The Book of Mormon says that clergy shouldn't be paid. This is just one example amongst many of how the LDS church goes against the teachings of the BoM itself.

[mormonanswerman]

But they are NOT paid.

If you are talking about CES, well name one college professor that does the teaching at college campuses for free! Or at schools! This is where the CES are employed. I suppose you think that all BYU teachers and professors should just do all that stuff for free! Its a job, get real.

But being a Bishop, Stake President, General Authority or Apostle, those are ecclesiastical leaders and they are NOT a paid position. No one "applies" for the job, either.

[testskriftene]

where does Thomas Monson get his money/funding?

[mormonanswerman]

You guys really DON'T know this, do you?

Most men in the church that I know have got their financial situation together and are financially independent, don't have to work anymore, have money in the bank, and are retired, etc.  Once they serve in major callings they don't NEED to be paid, and they are not. In other words, they are NOT paid any kind of "salary."

People pay for their own missions. You can see this on lds dt org now as they advertise where you can go IF YOU PAY TO GO.

[rockwaterman]

You are making up excuses, Answerman. What you are echoing is the nonsense we were taught in seminary, that they were all so successful in life that they had enough to support themselves in their church callings. The truth is the GA's receive substantial "allowances". The trouble is, we who pay their allowances are not allowed to know how much that allowance is.

[rockwaterman]

Pres. Monson has lived almost his entire life on the church dole.  How much money do you think he would have had to earn in his short private life to be able to afford just the million dollar condo he lives in now?

Again, I don't begrudge him his "allowance". Just cut the crap about how we don't have a paid clergy. And stop perpetuating the lies, Answerman. It makes us look bad.

[mormonanswerman]

No one is on a "dole" when they are doing WORK. You have got that wrong. Look up what a dole is, and you will see that its a handout for work NOT received.

Lighten up on the Apostles. They work ALL THEIR LIVES, like Paul did, like Peter did, James and John did. They give their lives, and you will see that they will be the ones in the streets of Jerusalem giving their lives:

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

[rockwaterman]

Answerman, They are not giving. They are not sacrificing. They trade their time for compensation,just as any CEO is compensated for his service. Just as the custodian is also compensated. None of which I am opposed to.

Peter and Paul would have loved this setup. But they would have called it what it was.

First you deny they receive any pay. Then you niggle about whether what they receive is pay or charity. So you admit they do receive remuneration of some sort?

[mormonanswerman]

You don't KNOW that WE pay any of those allowances, and what business is it of yours to know what ANY of the ecclesiastical leaders does with funds. Why should you know how many mortgages the Bishop in your ward pays out each month? Why should you be privy to which widows got assistance? Is this any of our business to know, to have all those books opened up to us? Let God be the judge if you are so worried about it. Justice will always be served as necessary, so don't YOU worry about it.

[crowofdeath2]

well yes it is our business what the church duz with its money it is a tax exempt organization so it has to be public record my church gives out a pamphlet each week on how much money we get and were it went to and how much our priests get and what about the Mormons? do they show how much? nope but i can tell you my 2 priests only get about 1-2k a month to live on how much do the 70 get or how much do the (prophets) get?

[rockwaterman]

It is not my place to know to whom the bishop distributes ward funds. It is my business to know to whom my tithing funds are being payed, and how much. It was ever so in the Church, and Joseph Smith considered it a requirement of leaders, and he made a thorough accounting to the Body of Christ -the members who supplied him with sustenance.

[laskara1]

From being a Journalist & Businessman. Monson is like Peter, James & John, They were well off fishermen, but when Christ came & said to them Come Follow Me, they left their worldly profession to Follow Christ & work in the Church, but they supported/funded themselves & their families from the savings of their Labour. The same is with President Thomas S Monson!! Keep up the good work Monson..

[bradsam]

amen guys

[rockwaterman]

This is a real sore spot with me. How can my fellow Mormons continue to spout this nonsense about an unpaid clergy when the guys at the top are making their entire living off of us?

[rodwyr]

It really is a shame. It is Biblical to pay ministers and pastors. I don't even care if they do get paid. Just quit saying that they don't (directed @ the leadership, not you!)

[mormonanswerman]

That's nonsense. Why don't YOU think about trying to do what they do, and then ask yourself, WOULD YOU?

We have a normal life. They don't. Their life is not worldly but is a life of service and sacrifice. Ever serve a mission? Then you BEGIN to know what its like, except it is all your life. That's a sacrifice. No other "JOB" in the world requires that much of it. THINK about it.

[crowofdeath2]

@mormonanswerman well i can think of many jobs in the Catholic church that take more sacrifice for less pay :)

[mormonanswerman]

I can think also of many jobs in the Catholic Church that take great pay and where robes of gold and jewelry are all part of the garb and get-up. You won't find that in the church that I go to, and I want you to ask yourself why, why you would use the Catholic Church as an example of restraint when I see just the opposite. They have a VATICAN, a COUNTRY! but you won't allow a temple square, and you guys complain about a billion bucks. Do you have any idea of what the VATICAN cost???

[mormonanswerman]

Do you know anything about the Vatican?

Vatican City is an ecclesiastical or sacerdotal-monarchical state, ruled by the bishop of Rome—the Pope. The highest state functionaries are all Catholic clergymen of various nationalities. It is the sovereign territory of the Holy See (Sancta Sedes) and the location of the Pope's residence, referred to as the Apostolic Palace.

There you go. What do you think THAT CITY is worth? You guys are worried about a MALL???

Be consistent!@

[VictorLepanto]

@mormonanswerman: The Catholic Church doesn't boast of its amateurism. So what the Catholic Church does or doesn't do or has or doesn't have is immaterial. You have admitted that the LDS has a CES system for employeing professional teachers. How is teaching for Mormomism & getting paid for any different then an ordinary Christian preacher getting paid for proclaiming what he believes? You have also admitted that Monson has been employed by a LDS own corporation since graduation. Hypocricy.

[rockwaterman]

Mormonanswerman, the issue here is that the Church boasts, yes BOASTS that there is no paid clergy. As Rodwyr above asserts, I don't care if they are paid, they should just own up to what is going on.

And yes, I did serve a mission, but I was expected to come up with my own means to pay for it.

As for how much service the Brethren are actually performing? Seems like a lot of time is spent managing investments.

[mormonanswerman]

No, that's OLD NEWS. There used to be many investments managed, but that is old hat now and those have been dissolved for the most part, and tithing now definitely pays for most things, as it should. It is a measure of faithfulness in the saints.

[rockwaterman]

Well, if tithing pays for most things now I should be pretty pissed that my tithing money has gone to invest in a 6 billion dollar mall and a hotel in Hawaii at the exact moment that the financial crash has made those kinds of investments the world's dumbest moves.

[mormonanswerman]

There are 1000's of people employed because of that church business that would otherwise be out of a job. There will be many more businesses that will thrive and come into the area because of the skyscraper. It will build the City into a nicer place. You probably would have faulted Brigham Young too for building a City on the backs of the saints. Well, the saints are WILLING! if they are saints. You otoh are not behaving like a saint at all, but a stirrer of the pot of rebellion.

[rockwaterman]

You seem to have wandered off point here, Answerman. Should we or should we not continue to boast that we have an unpaid clergy when we clearly do?

On this page alone you have gone from denying any such use of money to justifying it, both because the Brethren deserve it, and because tithing money "will build the city into a nicer place.

Still holding my breath to learn how a losing investment in a money pit mall will make the city a nicer place, though.

[mormonanswerman]

You know what else you are missing here? You seem to advocate that churches should spend their money on Haiti and things like that. I say, WHY? Why do YOU decide or suggest where churches should spend their money? How much money did Shawn McCraney send to Haiti? I sent 250 bucks. I am on hard times right now, or I would have sent more. Did Shawn send ANYthing? If so, why don't you get him to disclose ALL his finances like that, like you ridiculously DEMAND of the Apostles.

[rockwaterman]

Anserman, I haven't mentioned Haiti or charity, because I believe charity is the function of the individual.

It takes money to run a church. It takes money to compensate those running it. When you deny that our tithing is used to compensate those who are running the church (and even you declare they deserve it), then you are being dishonest, and the enemies of the church can see your dishonesty.

Perhaps you would serve the church better by defending Christ rather than the institution.

[mormonanswerman]

No Rockwater, you are not being consistent. People (disgruntled exmormons?) are demanding to "see the books" of the LDS church, but there is no outcry over the Vatican and what they do? I say, just be consistent.

I defend things that make sense. I am defending reasonableness. It is not reasonable to demand so much transparency from the LDS church when no demands are being made on other churches.

I say, when you can find your Tammy and Jim BAKKER in the Mormon church you have a story...

[crowofdeath2]

the Catholic church tells how much money they get and were it gos to...and on you other post to me the Vatican was a gift from Constantine and it wasnt its own country tell about 80 years ago the Pope dont get payed and he has no family so thats a huge sacrifice for no pay...the nice cars you see him in are all gifts from France...the Vatican is (priceless)

[rockwaterman]

Answerman, We are not "other churches"; the Lord expects us to operate in the light.

At conference in Nauvoo Joseph gave a complete account of his possessions, including his "one goat". An accounting of all assets and spending was an essential purpose of all general conferences.

This right and proper accounting ended suddenly in 1958. Show me the revelation given at that time where the Lord commanded his stewards to stop being accountable to the members of HIS church, and I will shut up.

[NaDopros]

@rockwaterman Not only that, but the LDS Church became "The Corporation of the President", about 30 years ago (instead of appointing The Church President as merely Trustee-in-Trust, for The Church...of Latter'day Saints. THIS MEANS THAT truly Monson can pay himself "any amount of money he wants to": he is, after all, the one whose position, in the church, is incorporated! Why else would it be "the corp. of the president", except to consolidate power into the hands of ONE MAN? !!