Game Geeks #40 World of Darkness by White Wolf Publishing

[MRRTCifyful]

how i can play ?

[Vampirvork]

what i know is that you can play in World Of Darkness MMO:

as Vampire, Werewolf, Mage and 2 new races: Ghosts and Demons <-- they are new

by the way i sub you =)

[YuriPRIME]

Tried the new setting of WoD, and didn't liked it... I mean I LIKE the new mechanics, but I hate the fact they cut a lot of lore half :(

So when we played, we took new rulebooks new set of rules, which were quite cool, but we used old Vampire books using the old lore - which is MUCH better

[TacticOgre]

Thanks, quite an informative video.

[valdis23]

do thay have the seperate vampire clans?

[Andreus]

@valdis23 Oh yeah, they have five base clans (Daeva, Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu and Ventrue) and about fifty separate "bloodlines" (basically, sub-clans).

[valdis23]

@Andreus lol i whas thinkin of the other vampier the requium so would Daeva, Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu and Ventrue and the other fifty odd calns be in that game?

[Andreus]

@valdis23 Vampire the Requiem was the game I was talking about, yes :)

[unurautare]

any good site available that will teach me how to play such games?

[bwrpwr]

It may clean up the rules, but it sure was nowhere near as good on the setting. They took all the groups from the old game and threw em in a blender and called it new. TRASH.

[stevep119]

i'm looking for nwod players in cornwall uk any out there

[Andreus]

@stevep119 Well, I live in the UK. Probably couldn't game with you, but we could swap ideas.

[JohnRaines]

@Andreus Play-by-post game, problem solved.

[LordSathar]

WoD is always one of those games were you have to vette your players. If you get in with a playstyle that is incompatible with yours, you'll be completely miserable.

[MastaThief688]

Hunter was geared at playing Hunters. Sure you where technically Mortal but Mortals in this book are more the Protagonists of Horror rather the the Heroes of Supernatural Action.

[woodwwad]

New WOD isn't nearly as good as the old WOD. I've played both & the old WOD is much better. However, the idea of a core book was great, the first edition ate up so much room with repeats of character building.

Also, agree with the other posters, Wraith was great. I really enjoyed playing that one.

Old World of Darkness was a great game for playing mortals, you're just wrong about that bro. Lots of books to support humans too.

[Skinnyoompalumpa]

the best WOD campaigns were the wraith ones

[magnus652]

you didnt mention hunter that was the book geared toward running mortals

[cthulhusmop]

@magnus652 : Which version of hunter are you refering to?

If you mean The Imbued from Hunter/Reckoning, well most players generally regarded them as yet another 'Supernatural' race, in light of their capabilities, and were thus as much of a 'Mortal' as a Mage.

As for Hunter/Vigil, well, look at the date of the review; Vigil wasn't released until August the following year, so there is no way Wiegel have commented on it at the time of filming.

[magnus652]

I meant the latest hunter, I should have looked at the date the video came out, I thought that it had come out before changeling, my bad. but hunter the vigil is a great game for anyone who is interested

[Paradoxical003]

hunter the vigil are ordinary humans, no supernatural powers, just advantages that come with membership into their particular Vigil, known as "Endowments", but still fully human. and any endowment could be used by any human, so if one government official loses his phaser, than any joe off the street can pick it up and use it.

[ArchArturo]

One World: Supernatural :D.

... Yes, the TV show.

[commiedeer]

Mechanically I think this version IS cleaner but setting-wise I like a lot of the Old WoD books better. Werewolf and Changling have certainly improved but Mage.... no. They had a good set up with the Nine Traditions and the Technocracy...

[commiedeer]

Mage's new story just doesn't quite have the same spark as the old one. In the old one you had the Ascension Wars and it was pretty clear there was a set metaplot conflict between Order and Chaos. New WoD in general just feels... lost; like it's wandering aimlessly without a set direction. You have some "obvious" bad guys but they aren't as imposing as the Technocracy (which actually wasn't BAD so much as misguided) and the Wyrm.

[Paradoxical003]

arent vampires supposed to be more powerful than werebeasts?

i didnt like theyre balancing FAIL.

Vampires according to the occult lore, are supposedly the one of most powerful supernatural being of all! out done only by fae, mages, true demons and mummies.

i would like to give vampires telekinesis (something i think they deserve) and make it so that 1 sufficiently potent vamp could kill a whole tribe of wolves.

[TacticusPrime]

Why would the living dead be necessarily more powerful than the living embodiment of rage?

[Paradoxical003]

but why are they the living embodiment of rage?

they could be a bloodline humans or animals who can change between like the original werebeasts, and just cut all the "Spirit" shit! for powers they could stem from creative use of their ability to change, like in the "Changing Breed" book, and for their Morality it could still be a balance between beast and man, for example having two minds can drive one mad, an animal sees no great evil in killing humans and vica-versa, so it could be a mindfuck!

[TacticusPrime]

Well you could change what the game is as written, that's always the ST's prerogative. I personally don't like how badly the sun effects vampires, so i tone it down. It's ridiculous 2 say that you don't agreed balancing the supers by saying you don't like the entire direction the line goes in. You don't like it, change it.

BTW werewolves in apocalypse were WAY more deadly. Most WtF players i know think the Uratha are way under powered. They used to rip through vampires like wet paper bags.

[Paradoxical003]

Yeah, but it shouldve been the opposite way around, Vampires should come out on top of ferals, not beneath, and the balance in the first game? was definately off.

as well i'd tone down the sun effects, remove on whole the weakness to fire, and give vampires a weakness to silver alike the wolves.

remember it was Jonathan Harker's SILVER knife that killed Dracula, as well he walked through the flames that would surely burn a human without getting burned and w/ no ill effects. Fire didnt effect him

[TacticusPrime]

Just because you like vampires better than werewolves, doesn't mean that vampires SHOULD be more powerful. Even if you simply take it visually, werewolves are way larger and have large natural weapons, plus all the myths about them involve combat. Vampires are just as often mere seducers or politicos as combat oriented. And they are generally way skinny. There no inherent logical necessity for the vampires to be stronger than werewolves. But if you wanna do that, go for it.

[Paradoxical003]

Really?

last i checked vampires could also transform into animals, last i checked, vampires (especially Moroi) were known to be massively strong, read some classical vampire folklore, the fighter vampire predates the first seducer vampire by many years, the first seducer being either dracula or carmilla.

and god-type vamps predate that, they were known to have a variety of powers that would make a mage green with envy.

[TacticusPrime]

Well you could argue that the Seers are simply trying to protect the masses of humanity from the terrible truth, and thus themselves from the repercussions of that reveal.

I prefer no meta-plot that you have to address. If you want a meta-plot then you can put one in, but you don't have too. It wouldn't be too hard to take a Hunter faction, like the Ordo Malleus, and make them an opposing epic force.

[commiedeer]

Well, while there was an extensive and rich metaplot, it wasn't too hard to separate it from the game itself. Tricky, but not too hard.

The Traditions and the Technocracy could reappear as a conflict between order and chaos, the two fighting to maintain the status quo or destroy it.

[cthulhusmop]

@commiedeer : That is part of the New WoD design philosophy, though. Much like the Rules, the Setting is a loose plot kit of ideas that STs and Players can (theoretically) customise and plugin to there games.

Admittedly, it does lack the clarity of the Old WoD, which did give the Old game a sort of 'pick up and play' appeal, But the New WoD does allow for the ST to craft his chronicle with a greater degree of personalisation, provided they have the time to do so.

[Paradoxical003]

just rebalance it the other way around.

with vamps as combat-gods, and wolves as decently powerful as the owod vamps were.

[ronnieforschen]

well if you watch all this - the writers just ended this game. The new world sucks -

the old one has great and wonderful writing.

[vantorias]

They ended the game? Such a succesfull game? Yeah right

[SpearedGrave1]

A tip for making a good Vamp. game. Take one sheet of paper and write 10 random names on it. Then just write a concept and attitude below each one. Then draw arrows from one name to another and just make up some simple plot.

Billy ----- wants to kill/undermine ---> Jason.

Cold, heartless Elder, Artist

Gangel Deva

Then drop the players in and BAM! instance deep plot as long as their characters have some life to them

[S1587915G]

Why did they drop WRAITH and MUMMY??

Bring them back, please!

[Zeplinsofcake]

I think they will eventually, the new set coming out this summer is giest.

[TacticusPrime]

Promethean is a bit like Mummy, or so i've been told. I never played Mummy.

[Paradoxical003]

its more like Kindred of the East

[cthulhusmop]

Apparently, Wraith didn't rate well as far as sales go. It was often regarded as too dark to be playable (a point I would contest) and that the Shadow mechanic was too open to abuse by unscrupulous players (which I do agree with - but the solution to that is simply get more mature players).

WW has since released Geist: the Sin Eaters, which strikes me as a mash up out of Wraith, Orpheus and a bit of Mage/Ascension. Hopefully Wiegel will do a review of it soon.

[bigjimswafflehouse]

the down side of playing mortals is long periods of time spent in the hospital

[LokiHavok]

All I can say is that, I wouldn't ahve bouth this and any of the otehr corebooks if it wasn't for the possibility of playing online in DigiChat. Wanton Wicked rocks.

[nutherefurlong]

yay! mortals!  finally.

[iamagod78]

i have downloaded the free rules and person sheats is that all i need to play please mesage me the anser

[escape6666]

The fast rules are good for the start, bad you will need the books to really make other characters and put them in situation that are not on the fast rules

[CharleyWessex]

WOD is very nice, a great stab at horror gaming, rules are decent enough and do the job really well. Not as intuitive as something like Cthulhu though, which I prefer for simplicity. The WOD franchise is only let down by a lack of published scenarios (as opposed to the massive number of sourcebooks). This is a mistake. Some of us have stuff to do in the real world - GMs like me just don't have the time to come up with original stuff.

[MisticRelmStudios]

I GM on the fly lol, just today I mad a 4 hour campaign from 30 seconds of stalling for time. It really depends on your storytelling style I suppose, but personally I find preset scenarios for games like this restricting, and over time I have adapted to pull inspiration from anything we do before/after/while playing, put a new/different spin on it, and present it in a way the players enjoy.

[MechanicalCoupling]

I'm currently a larper in the Changling the Lost game-- a newbie so I really appreciated this bit of backstory and basic understanding of World of Darkness in general.

[MechanicalCoupling]

Actually, no; Changeling the Lost is New World, Changeling the Dreaming is Old World.

[renos21]

Hi, is World of Darkness a good start for someone (me) who never played a role playing game before? Are the rules newbie friendly, or should i try another game (horror game) before World of Darkness?

Thanks!

[Catterjee]

Like I said to thedeomon, I think WoD is a fairly newbie friendly game. I had all the major rules down after one play session.

[gumed85]

Rules are easy. Creating good stories for this scenario demands a LOT of time and effort.

[SkaVenom818]

I am also new to RPG and this was my first. I've never play before or GM/ST but I found it very easy to understand, and easy to get into and play.

[thedeomon]

so to start playing world of darkness can i just start playing just from the world of darkness core book or do i need to pick up vampire or mage in order to play?

[Catterjee]

The core WoD book will let you make a fully playable mortal character. If you want to play a supernatural character, you will also need the related core book.

[thedeomon]

Thank you so much! I'm probably going to pick it up either this month or get it for Christmas then I'll also get vampire the requiem because vampires are awesome! :)

[thedeomon]

by the way is WoD easy to learn to play and if i get the vampire will that be easy to learn and tie into WoD?

[Catterjee]

Core WoD I think is a delightfully intuitive system. Vampire simply adds on to it, though there are a couple new rules I had to read twice to make sure I fully understood.

[TacticusPrime]

you can also pick up Hunter: the Vigil, if you wanna play mortals specifically geared to kicking supernatural ass. Can work, for example, for a Supernatural (CW tv series) game.

[Luthienwolfie]

Wonderful review, I have nearly the whole WoD books and WtF line and enjoy them both, but I have trouble finding people to play in real life, all of my games have been over the internet.

[Rashen]

lol, I have a bunch of games I play in my area, I have been looking (and failing) for a good online group, can I get some pointers?

[Sephiroth330]

Giants In the playground, and myth-weavers both host games. Just need to linger a bit if you don't see any.

[Shyrkon]

The oWod is waaaay better than the new one, everyone who's looking to play wod, play the old one, dont play the new. Because; It may be better planned than the old, but it just sucks.

And Dear Vampire Players, you have other powers than the werewolves in oWod, skip the crying about weakness and imbaness, this game is for Story at atmosphere, and this it does.

[irbb07]

i like the d 10 system requim blows gahina should have never happend. were the forsacne kicks ass!! un like were wolf the apcloysp blew ass! u dont need all of those book to tie in the other games world of darkness book kicks ass sence it all of the games combined in 1 like he said. i dont aggre the system in the old world of darkness are harder at all it bee the same sence 1 add of vampire other than your diff go up 1 number and your chances of botchin go why down.

[drzip1993]

Looking for Canadian glam rock I get this.

[monstermodelreview]

I'm sure that happen often. :)

[Inmemorial]

It would be hard to make the mechanics more complicated for the old world of darkness.

[lawn0gnome]

i just baught the WoD rulebook today...and I have to say,WOW! I mean,sure,it did have much of what I expected but what really suprised me was the simplicity of the rule system...compared to other games...idk if it really is that simple,but it just seems to click into my mind more than other systems such as D20...i have had a hard time finding players to play a game...all because of the same reasons "its too hard!" or "cant you just make my character for me?" i am hoping that this will fix that!

[alwaysmokin69]

I have the book also, but cant find players. When I read it I get all these awesome Scenarios playing through my head. A few mortal games that lead into the others it is awesome. I will ask family to play after we try 4e DnD.

[lawn0gnome]

lol,i know the feeling...it seems like noone i know role plays or has the mental copasity to actually do such a thing! every time i try to get players they say "is it a video game?" and i say of course "no..." and theyre like "oh...nvm then" lol...but im sure someday ill find some players who are actually interested

[voodoomon365]

hwite wolf?

[sabertooth1980]

Call me an Old World fanatic, call me the downer for the "Special little snowflakes". But... Why play a mortal? Mortal characters are good as backdrop characters or supporting cast. However... Eh, it is just me. The "Because there are few if any Mortal players in this game I am going to be 'different' and 'special' by playing a clueless mortal." The appeal doesn't strike me.

You want to play that. Go with it.

I am in a game were we are still playing Apocalypse. We still have a good time.

[Orklord90]

NP with normal human beings... but i says the same! All this fantastic setting of Old World of Darkness! Vampire the Masquerade is the most influenced phenomenon that had given the Modern verison of Vampires! The Vampire film, Underworld is based on or mostly inspiered by VTM!

[HonestObserver]

Because the abominations have raped humanity for long enough.

Take back the night!

[drkstar00]

Anyone know if there's a 'supers' accessory for this?

[BlackHeartMetal666]

I think that Storytelling games are better than D20. I love how White Wolf fuses the templates to interlope for endless possiblilities of unique stories

[lordmonfort]

Also, anyone know the difference in the 2004 version and the previous one?

[drabarne]

much too complicated to discuss here

[Orklord90]

I says the same as drabarne! is fuckin hell much differences between New WoD and Old WoD. well i never played the pen and paper rpg but i had known WoD a long time now!

[lordmonfort]

Great review, I always enjoy his videos..

So is Vampire/Mage/Werewolf required to use the WoD book? Can you create your own horror setting with the needing any of the other sourcebooks?

I just want to know if I plan to run a mortals campaign (something Cthulhu-ish); I can do it with just that book?

[drabarne]

Yes you can, but you might want to look into the other WOD books for more flavor.

[baraman88]

the wod rules are brilliant, I use them for a sci-fi game i play. Works brilliantly

[jlburgos]

White wolf produces the best quality rpgs in town. I've been playing the new world of darkness since it came out and its far superior to the previous editions, combat is more streamlined and realistic. If you have not picked this up you MUST.

[Feyrhawk]

Gritty? or Sh*tty? I think what people fail to realize is that only the masquerade part of it was cool. All the add-ons just piled on more cheesiness to what was an already perfect setting. The MMORPG will probably suffer for it, so i guess well see. Dice chuckers should buy a P.C. that's all i have.

[Orklord90]

all Old World of Darkness was som damn much better then the old! and Masquerade is one of the best!! the seconed is Apocalypse!

[ctm5000]

all the old is better than the old...?

[wartravs22]

I think nWoD is just as good, and in some ways better, than oWoD. My only problem with it is on a personal level. I grew up with oWoD since I was 9 years old. So when I play the newer games, it just feels harder to suspend my disbelief. Still fun though, and with a far superior dice rolling system.

[DrMlieko]

the new rule system is a good thing

but it somehow lacks the whole atmosphere of the old WoD

[Glopdemon]

I used to think that way, but now I kind of like the new version. A good GM and a good group of players can give you all the atmosphere you'd ever need.

[DrMlieko]

yes, a good GM can do things

+ Promethean and the new Changeling are great

the new Vampire is a rather decent game

but that doesn't change the fact that the vew Werewolf and Mage are really weak

lets hope the new Hunter will be worth

[Amerginn671]

Actually I disagree. Requiem is good, but the new Mage is much more socially complex in the new iteration. Forsaken is actually a better product taking Werewolves as the saviors of Gaia to becoming more insular and more condensed in their viewpoint as the caretakers of the spirit realm.

Changeling is a powerful addition to the nWoD.

[DrMlieko]

well, maybe I do the mistake of comparing nWoD with oWoD instead of taking them as different games

but I'm just too used to the duality of Mage: the Ascension (Traditions vs Technocracy) and the three forces in WtA

maybe I'm just too old

[Amerginn671]

Well I'm getting long in the tooth as well and your outlook for both oWoD and the nWoD are not unfounded. There are striking similarities and differences that run through all of the new games. Oddly enough if you were to take the new Mage and swap in a Dresden Files world (using the nWoD Mage rules) you literally have (with some tweaking) the Dresden Files - more or less.

I love both flavors of Mage, but I'm leaning to Awakening as my current favorite.

[DrMlieko]

yes

I think someone should actually try to convert the oWoD to the nWoD rule system

call me stubborn, but I miss the Technocracy

[Eliconean]

I don't miss technocracy alone, but also the etherites, gengineers, hermetics, choristers, verbena, euthanatoi, Demons, brujah, salubri, trolls, kuei-jin, stormlord, gaians, ratkins, mokole, mummies.....

Rules are nothing, just play with great plots!

[DrMlieko]

I do like some of the new stuff

Promethean is one of the best series produced in this franchise yet, so is the new Changeling

I also like the Daeva and the Mekhet

but otherwise, well sentiment

[jlburgos]

agreed. The new Mage the Awakening is more in tune with Dresden Files than Ascencion (which was annoyingly very sci-fi-ish).

[lordjulius00]

1 dice roll is too much dice rolling

[mlmcmull]

Nice, solid review of the core book and some of the mortal books. Frankly I think the new WoD is much stronger, a world that's shaped by what creepy stuff the ST wants to mix in instead of a larger metaplot (and I loved the old metaplot just fine). The core line/"mortal" books, especially, have blown me away with their quality.

[nerosfiddle]

You know, much as I enjoy the WoD, when it comes to horror or occult investigation games, I prefer the stuff from Eden Studios. In particular, CJ Carrela's Witchcraft RPG, which has far more streamlined game rules and gives a broader array of choices when it comes to the setting. Just my 2 cents worth.

[ExCrusader]

Good review Kurt. It was a very nice overview of the whole line. I am a long time Vampire player, and we transitioned our game into this new rule set and haven't looked back. Our group has been very happy with it.

[clayisajedi444]

I like this game alot. Me and my friends had alot of fun with it.

[Eliconean]

Seriously?This review is based entirely on the rule sistem.Also in the old WoD you were able to play mortals,and rules in a RPG or LARP are only supports.THe real stuff in the old WoD was all the background stories!For example,an old Ventrue is far more complex and charming than a new Ventrue,not talking about Traditions/Technocracy and the new Paths.Definetely I will NEVER play the nWoD,because in a RPG the complexity of a story is far more important than an unified rule system.

[RenaissanceMan2064]

Call me stubborn, call me stodgy, but I'm pretty much in agreement. I prefer the old meta-plots to relaunching the entire line just to unify the rules. I've been playing the old WoD for years and have never once had problems with interactions between my Garou and Kindred, etc. Even my "I only want to be a normal person" players were easily created and interacted with. Two played mortals from the Vampire books, and one became a Hunter. Don't give up on your old books.

[gibsonmccoy71]

Nice review!

Played oWoD since 92 and the nWoD since it launched, I like the new mortal options as well.

[captaindampson]

Oi, mate. LOVE the review, it was amazing. I've got no further way to embellish, it was just fantastic. I'm an avid NWoD player myself.

[NutNapalm]

The whole idea of a post-modern reality on the brink from the old game went bye bye and was replaced with... well, nothing,really. Except for a bunch of rants about "symbolism" and "mystery" that sound like they were written by some pretentious english major. Wow. I really did like the old WoD better, warts and all.

[NutNapalm]

New Vampire was basically the same stuff, new Changeling and Especially Werewolf were improvements, but the new Mage was a huge dissapointment. It doesn't really live up to the name.

[farindel]

A love nWoD. I'm waiting for reviews of vampire: the reqiuem and other supertnatural creaters settings. God job Kurt!

[Darkhan]

I Love this review, when i'm telling new players about new World of Darkkness i 'm telling exactly the same! Awsome work! :) I love playing and beeing a storyteller in mortal campaigns... :)

[MrGonev5]

Damn fine review! I love the Mortal line for New World of Darkness and this touched on all the stuff I dig about it. Nicely done.

[acm4bass]

I love the genre of call of the cthulu...so Im sure I's lve thsi WOD. incarnation.

[Vampir5]

At the end of the video, the host's name is spelled Kurt Wiegle... I think that may be a mistake..

[knwiegel]

It is- we just haven't fixed them yet. Hopefully soon.

[pugknowspro]

I got so excited about the animation that I totally goofed on Kurt's name, it'll be fixed. Thanks for letting us know

Rob

[ArbiterLibera]

Glad to see it reviewed at long last and I have to wait it was worth the wait. Good and clean overview is what's, in my opinion at least, needed when you do these reviews and you outdid yourself with this review, although I would've liked if you went even more into details. :D

Can't wait to see further nWoD coverage from you.

[Jeffrywith1e]

nice review. I LOVED the original MAGE. I haven't kept up with WOD since they 'dropped the bomb' so I found this episode very informative. Thank you, Kurt.

[Catterjee]

I was one of the guys who was resistant to the nWoD after they ended the old stuff. Then I tried WoD core book. I've since found love for Vampire and Promethean.

Bottom line, even if you decide that you don't like V:tR. M:tA, W:tF or whatever, the WoD core book is well worth getting. I haven't been this pleased with a rules set in several years. And the setting info just oozes with ideas. I think I could probably run a campaign for a couple years just off the core book and Mysterious Places.

[finniksa]

I agree, playing Mortals (Hunters) in a World of Darkness setting is FAR more amazing than playing a vampire, in my opinion... It's such an overlooked way to tell stories.

However, the new system's main strength is truly the compatibility and the concise combat rules! I am so glad it doesn't take half an hour or an hour to do simple combat!

Anyway, like Catterjee said... why did it take til level 40 to do WoD? :P

[knwiegel]

It tok to 40 for a couple of reasone. With a few exceptions, I try to get these books done in the order I get them in. And WoD kept slipping to the bottom of the pile. There are two new ones just filmes (book of spirits and Second Sight/Tales from the thirteenth....) More WoD to come.

[Jeffrywith1e]

does that mean you won't ever review out-of-print games?

[knwiegel]

I'm of two minds on it. I've done the cinematic unisystem games, which are technically out of print, but I don't want to review something that people can't readily get. I'm still walking the line I guess.

K

[Jeffrywith1e]

Cool. My dream episode would be TSR's old Top Secret/S.I. game. Not likely. That's why its a dream episode. Keep up the great work, Kurt.

[knwiegel]

I'm of two minds on it. I've done the cinematic unisystem games, which are technically out of print, but I don't want to review something that people can't readily get. I'm still walking the line I guess.

K

[Amerginn671]

I'm looking forward to hearing your review of Mage:The Awakening. As a fan of oWoD and nWoD respectively I think that the "new" Mage setting is more modular and gritty in terms of rp options.

[Catterjee]

Good review, though I'm honestly surprised it took until episode 40 to cover it.

I'll echo the recommendations for Antagonists, Ghost Stories, and especially Mysterious Places. Great books. Urban Legends is also quite good.

I just got my hands on Second Sight, and haven't started reading it yet. However, everyone I know with a copy swears by it.