it was written in before the BoM in Galatians 1:8 (But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.)(New King James Version)
the of is true mormon is true is the testament of jesus christ and it got some parts of the bible to and to know it is true you got to pray and you will know fill the spirit
@bluejoker713 I was an enthusiastic investigator of LDS. Given my fascinations with Messianic Judaism, the lands of Central America and her people, and Native American cultures, i really though I'd found sonething unique. i read BoM, prayed on it, prayed for guidance, and the answer I received was "Get digging....." "Unique"?? Yes. True?? No.
I did. The Book of Mormon is poorly written religious fiction, nothing more.
One comment I will made to this... those who watch this video..... can be found in James 1:5. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
thats all, remember knowledge and wisdom are different... and also remember that this two should be in balanced. thats my great teacher told to me...
@CounterCultureLives if these sites REALLY exist then why do we hav eto loook on a...only a LDS sponsored site to learn about them?if jesus started a new church in america..wouldnt there have STILL been an lds curch in 1492?and if the BOM is true then why arent the christians and the lds UNIFIED?oh you speaking AGINST the lds?my bad...
This is blatently biased, there abundant evidence for the Book of Mormon in all areas of science and to ignore them is dishonest. Watch the videos on the MormonDefenders channel and then tell me there is no evidence for it. You can "prove wrong" pretty much anything on the internet with dishonest data.
@Beckinz1 There is NO credible evidence to support BoM which has been independently authenticated by unbiased experts. Heck, Mormons can't even agree on the geography of BoM, (there are no maps found in BoM) much less the other sciences which would support any unbiased conclusions of authenticity.
Where is Zarahemla?? Where is The city of Nephi??Where is (the REAL) Hill Cumorah??
Please get back to me ASAP; I've got first dibs on the snow-cone & cotton candy concessions!!
Gal 1:8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. Who gave the book of MOrmons to J. Smith, an angel? the bible pre warns us about taking teachings that add to take from Gods word. PRE WARNS. please just research and find out for yourself. Goes for the quran too.
@shihtzufizzers Uh... One problem: the Bible mentions another set of doctrine to complete God's word.
The Bible calls itself the "Stick of Judah" at one point (I'll get back to you on that, I don't have my Bible or JST with me right now). The bible is, in fact mainly about the people of the tribe of Judah. The Bible then mentions the "Stick of Ephraim." So, what is this account of the tribe of Ephraim? The Book of Mormon! Lehi (the first prophet in it) is descended from Ephraim!
@Kingofcolor This does not refer to this at all . I believe it has to do w/ the teaching of a time and a half a time ... The bible would did not say what is mentioned from be above with the clause, "only if someone is handed a book. YOu can not pick and choose what works best for you. It simply says, If ANYONE adds or takes away they will be accursed. I too will research this and get back to you.
@shihtzufizzers Oh? what about your precious Catholic CREEDS, you hypocrite? The creeds were created by mere mortals without divine aid, and yet, every Christian faith follows them, EXCEPT for us "Mormons"! Explain how the creeds aren't "adding to" the scriptures!
@Kingofcolor Oh, just to let you know I am NOT a catholic. I agree with you 100% on what they have done in making there own doctines which have nothing to do with God. They idol worship, ask forgivness without really being sorry and commit the same sins over and over, teach of hell fire when God despised of false religion of burning ones chilren (baal worship) I am a JW. and we do not add nothing to the scriptures, we live by them to the best of our ability.
@Kingofcolor I am so sorry you thought I was catholic. I admit the Mormons have very strong family ties and every Mormon I know are very kind. All I ask is to be careful. for Matthew tells us not everyone calling in the name of the lord will be saved. also says to keep a simple eye, (money for example) and Jesus was a humble poor man. All things to think about, the bible tells us what to look for in the true faith. Just with an open mind look into it k? your choice and take care k :)
@shihtzufizzers One thing: I find the Bible VERY unreliable at times. It was translated from Hebrew to Greek, Greek to Latin, Latin to German, and THEN from German to English! MANY things can be lost through such indirect translation!
1. It claims that God "repented" for creating man before the flood. Uh... God can't sin, so why would He repent?
2. In the "Lord's prayer," no matter what version you read, it says: "lead us not into temptation." God doesn't tempt!
@Kingofcolor you are right God does not sin. he was hurt by man, he felt he should not of made us at all. Lords prayer, God does not lead us into temptation, The scripture when taken from the original writings says, do not bring us into temptation but deliver us from the wicked one. asking God for help with temptaion From satan. This is why you have to go back to the original writings for after the apostles died, yes the clergy of the day decided to make it benefit them.
@Kingofcolor When looking into the scriptures you would see that it is asking God to protect us from temptation. God never sinned. You have to read the entire scripture not just the first half
@shihtzufizzers Before you try to convince me to stop being LDS anymore, allow me to tell you WHY I MUST be LDS (and no, it's not because I was born into the faith, but I'll explain why my parents being LDS isn't a factor later).
Back when I was fifteen, I did a LOT of soul searching, and I discovered I didn't know WHY I believed what I do. So I set out to discover EXACTLY what core points I base my choice in religion on (I had even planned on possibly changing religions).
@Kingofcolor as for the shape of God lets read 1 john 4:12. says no one at any time has beheld God. no one knows what Gods glorious heavenly body looks like so how can it be compared to mans? (john 4:24)
@shihtzufizzers Problem! Adam saw God, Moses saw God, and Jesus Himself saw the Father! Besides, ones image is NOT ones emotional traits OR ones actions. You CAN'T convince me otherwise, since it took me MONTHS of soul-searching, research, logic and reasoning to come up with this! I'm going to bed soon, so I'll have to bid you good night after telling you one thing: I had a PERSONAL vision of the Father speaking to me in the premortal world. He spoke to me, and He looks like a man.
@Kingofcolor I am not trying to convince you, the bible tells us no man has beheld God. not me, I am just pointing out scriputres,nothing more. the bible tells us no man has ever seen God, So they could not of physically seen God, but visions of what God was using, (angels, burning bush ect) Be careful of vision, for the bible does tell us the devil can act as an angel of light. You know why Satan became a serpent in Eden?
@shihtzufizzers Cont. First, I realized I needed to use logic to determine what I believed about the nature of deity, which is the most basic foundation of any faith.
My research and logic resulted in these core principles:
1) All order in the universe points to the existence of a divine being. (this ruled out Atheism)
2) God created Man in His image, so He MUST look like a man.
@Kingofcolor Yes I agree Atheism cant even come close to being correct. As for being created in the Image of God this has to do with his traits, love, justice, ect. GOd is a spirit being. WE are not. There fore we really cant say that, no where does it ever say God looks like ANYTHING. But we know his traits by studying the bible. BTW, I am not trying to tell you not to be a Mormon. I just like to talk to ppl who have a love for God and his word.
@shihtzufizzers if it has to do with traits then why didnt god use the word"traits" Moses spoke to him as one man speaketh to another.Pretty self explanitary.He saw his back parts etc as well.Image and traits are 2 diffrent things with 2 seperate meanings.Scripture also says god is a consuming fire.So what is He.A consuming fire or a spirit.I think god expects us to use some of our own intelligence to figure things out.Specially the obvious at least.
3) If Man was created in the image of God, what about Woman? God is male, so for Woman to also be modeled in the image of deity, God MUST have a female counterpart who existed when Eve was created. (this ruled out the Virgin Mary theory about the nature of God's counterpart.)
4) Jesus can't have prayed to Himself when He taught us how to pray, so He and the Father are separate beings.
@Kingofcolor again God is a spirit. see above reply. God made Eve for Adam as a mate or wife, he saw the animals having mates and wondered why he did not (see Gen chapt 2) God created Eve for Adam, a perfect counterpart. . 4. Yes you bet! The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is not God. It is amazing how some ppl dont see this. dont you agree?
@shihtzufizzers I must disagree. One of the other points I came to is that the Father, like the Son, has a glorified body of flesh and bone. God does not have flesh and blood as Man does, since that would make Him mortal. He has become immortal, but eternal life is not simply a restatement of immortality. Eternal life is the state of having all time be as one, or "divinity." God wants to bring about the "immortality and ETERNAL LIFE of man," or "spiritual adulthood" of Man.
5)I see the Father as a loving, caring Father of ALL His spirit children, on EVERY world He's created. So, if He's a loving Spirit Parent, wouldn't He love us in the way mortal parents do? My mortal parents raised me to become a loving, caring mortal father (I've yet to find a wife to make that possible yet). So wouldn't our Heavenly Father want something similar? It's because of this that I MUST believe in the Deification of Man. JW's don't.
@Kingofcolor your right. the bible does tell us that he will not wait forever. He is patient right now for he does not desire to destroy anyone. ( see 2 Pet 3 :9) This scripture does show that some will be destroyed for disobedience and ignoring divine warning. Noahs day is a good example. but for how long will he allow his righteous ones to be persecuted? God does love us in a perfect sense. He cannot lie and tells us what will happen if we chose not to obey him
@shihtzufizzers God has not selected a "chosen few" as you JW's believe (my uncle was one after he left the Church after getting a concussion and losing much of his memories, including his reasons for being LDS, so I know a little bit about what you believe). The 144,000 elders are NOT the "chosen few" as you claim. They are just that: 144,000 elders, led by Michael the Archangel (whose mortal name was Adam, the first man). He will allow anyone to be saved if they do what is right.
@Kingofcolor the 144,000 are not all elders or such. I know alot about what I believe. YOu made your point, you said IF they do what is RIGht. not all will chose this. anyone can be saved if they chose to do so. Why is the number 144,000 in the bible as the little flock if they are not the so called chosen few as you say? They have a purpose. Why do we go to DRs when we are sick? why do we prolong life if heaven is so blissful?
@shihtzufizzers Look, really, I've got to go to bed! I really don't like what you people have done to my uncle: he died a VERY unhappy man. He felt alone, and unsure of what was going to happen to him when he died, and not even where he came from! My mom spoke at his funeral, and she BURNED the trashy speech you people wanted her to say.
My uncle's spirit came to my mom after he died, and he asked her to do temple work for him so he could be saved. We did, and his soul is safe. Good night.
@Kingofcolor go to bed, remember, the bible says the dead are conscience of nothing. no memories, no pain no wages, in eccl.9:5 tells us this. I am not going to go on and on either. All I have done is point out what the bible says, not my thoughts but the bibles. You had visions, dreams, ect and the bible tells us to beware of these things. So good night and stay happy, I have two good friends who are mormons and I love them dearly. I have nothing against u or your faith, just know that ok
@shihtzufizzers I understand that. I'm sorry if you took what I said personally. However, after reading everything you've written here, I've come across a HUGE problem: What purpose is there to do good if there is no reward? If a select few has been chosen to be saved while everyone else won't be, what point is there to do good? If you are chosen, you can do as much evil as you wish, since you'll be saved anyway. If you weren't, all the good you do won't matter, so you might as well sin.
@Kingofcolor why do good? we are saved through Christ, but faith is dead with out works. if we truly believe Christ is the one and the all we want to do good works because they were his original plan and we love him. If we are accepting his forgiveness we accept a relationship with him. A continuation of sinning would show that we have not changed and we have no real desire for God, but just a get-out-of-hell free card.
Truthfully, just doing works for your own good. Misses the whole point.
@channel2E Uh... No. I just need a REASON to do things, just as I need a REASON to live. My beliefs MUST answer the "whys" of life, because if they don't, what's the point? To my mind, EVERYTHING has a point! God gave everything a reason, and I must KNOW those reasons. I will not do things blindly for no purpose. I MUST have purpose! And being LDS gives everything I do a purpose. Don't presume you know more about me than I've said.
@Kingofcolor but a choosen one can be un-chosen. think about it Judas was a disciple of christ, he had it but lost it because of what he did. When one is lost there position, someone else is chosen. the 144,000 is a # in the bible and there are the little flock, for the bible also says there is a great crowd which no man is able to number. showing 2 groups. The bible tells us of our reward Matt 5:5 happy are the mild tempered for they will inherit the earth.
@Kingofcolor So yes there is a reward who serve God as he wants to be worship. (bible tells us what he wants) When Adam sinned did it say he would go to heaven? no he would return to the ground where he came from. after all why would he be rewarded for what he did. We were made to live on earth. after all if adam never sinned, would he have gone to heaven? no not our purpose. God promises us a paradise earth to inhrerit. and for the little flock, they r the 144,000 ruling w/ christ in heaven
@shihtzufizzers perhaps that scripture cud mean "not conscious"of anything mortal or to do with this life?The Bible says that Christ went to the Spirits in prison who had perishd in the flood and began the preaching of the gospel to them there.That tells me that the spirits of the dead are indeed conscious and are able to comprehend.Think for themselves.Learn the gospel etc.It is clear that He went to the world of Spirits to teach to those who had passed on.Simple
@jferristube No where in the bible does it say we go to heaven. In fact Paul tells us of two folds. One with a heavenly hope and one for an earthly hope. Revaltions gives us a number. this is a lot of info for this little box. so my suggestion to you is this. next time you have a chance, just ask a JW how they come up with these teachings. AND only use the bible. These Ideas are not our own but thru the bible. History teaches us alot. Prophecies be proven now. Just do it for knowledge ok
@Kingofcolor if heaven is so blissful and we all go there, why is death so hard for us? IT is because we were never meant to die. it is not natural in our hearts. for God put to time indefinent in our hearts. He created us to life forever in a paradise earth and his purpose has not changed for God can not change. if it did change that means satan won
@Kingofcolor every world? If there were perfect man on other worlds, God would not need to prove his point. Satan has chalenged God that no one were serve him without benefiting from it (Job is an expample) Satan also chalanged Gods right to rule. If this all ready has been proven somewhere else, why are we here.? WE are being test to our loyalty. God created angels and spirit being way before man, he does not need anymore. Our purpose is not heavenly. WE were created to live on earth
@shihtzufizzers This is, sadly, where I must disagree once again. You have read my logic, and you can't convince me that I was wrong. I SAW THE FACE OF GOD! I have seen friends in the preexistence in my vision that I know went to other worlds. furthermore, Abraham saw ALL the worlds God created, and the humans who lived on them. (This was removed from the Bible by some of the greedy nutjobs who altered it, but we have them, thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls).
@Kingofcolor No where in the bible does it say we go to heaven. that is a man made doctrine. it does speak of a great crowd and a little flock, two groups. The great crowd has an earthly hope, and little flock 144,000 rule in heaven for a 1000 yrs w/ Jesus as priest and priestess. We are not spirit beings. this is not taught in the bible and in hebrew and greek writings Spirit has different meanings in each language
@shihtzufizzers *Sigh* You're really starting to bug me. I'm going to only say this once: Actually READ the Standard Works, then pray to God in the manner Mormon (or was it Moroni? I always get those two mixed up) tells us to. No prayers by rote, just a simple prayer to know if what you read is true. Don't pray to disprove, pray to KNOW. That's why my uncle never rejoined the Church after the accident. He prayed to disprove, and the Devil answered him. I was there, and I felt the evil.
@Kingofcolor Sorry I am bugging you I thought we were just conversing. I will let you go now, Go get some sleep now and I will not "bug you anymore" good day.
@Kingofcolor we do we pray for holy spirit, in the name of jesus christ. to guide us. to learn and to take in knowledge of God and Jesus . We do follow the bible and nothing evil about that. Sorry you feel so bad about it. Good night. and have a wondeful day at school tomorrow.
@shihtzufizzers Oh, yes. I forgot to say something: I really have to go to bed now (I have college in the morning), so can we continue this some other time? Good night.
6) Now, if the Father wants His children to grow up spiritually and become divine, doesn't that make it possible that HE used to be mortal in another universe where HIS father reigned? I'm not saying it's the case, because there has to be a beginning somewhere, but I believe it's POSSIBLE.
7) If the Father loves all His children equally, why would he stop speaking to us? My answer is: He didn't. People just stopped listening.
@Kingofcolor /bible says God had no begining and no end. He never was mortal. that would mean he had a begining. Eve wanted to be like God, and look what happened to them? It is not taught anywhere we are to become divine. God stopped speaking to us because we are imperfect and he is not. He does however speak to us in the way of his word in the bible, listens and answers are prayers. THat is how now,
@shihtzufizzers By your logic Christ was created and must have had a beginning as he was born like all of us.Of course we know he existed as a spirit before he came here to receive a physical body.The same for us all.Our spirit selves xisted before birth according to the bible.Our spirits did not all of a sudden flare into existence at birth.Our spirit selves existed long before our physical births.This is my biblical understanding.Your thoughts will no doubt disagree.Will they?
@jferristube YOu must look at Ps 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground in that day his thoughts do perish" The hebrew word "spirit" is a derivative of "ru'ach. Some translations reder it "breath" When that "ru'ach or active life force, leave the body, the persons thought perish; they do not cont' in another realm. You see the word spirit and soul have two meanings in greek and hebrew. so seeing this you can see the meaning behind the words. Spirit = breath. we die it is gone.
@jferristube I am not trying to prove you wrong. just look at all aspects. God created angels way before humans. so why would he need more? Adam and Eve were created to live in a paradise earth and pro create humans. The bible says God can not change, He never once told Adam or Eve that when they die they go to heaven or even any of there children. Why Because someday, paradise will be established again. God wont let satan stand in the way of his original plan. Isaiah tells us this.
@Kingofcolor I believe that the creator of the universe and all it contains can protect a book. When something does not make sence then research, dont throw it away as wrong. I have and doing this I have looked into greek/hebrew history and language. ARch. finding have shown the bible to be accurate. even science. such as the world being a circle is in the bible, how come ones in the 1500's not see this? because they were blinded. I know the mormons take the words written in the book of cont"
@shihtzufizzers But you take this book over the bible. The bible is written By God, and way before The book of Mormon came along the bible warns us about this situation in Galatians. I know I have said this before. But this was a man stating an Angel gave him the writings. EXACTLY what Galatians said to be warned about. ":even if an angels comes down to you". A man wanting his own faith, a man wanting many wifes, or find a way to tell his wife its Gods will to sleep around. Not to trustworthy.
@shihtzufizzers No. We believe the Bible to ALSO be the word of God, "as long as it is translated correctly."
The Holy Bible has had important parts left out to satisfy the selfish desires of paid clergy for hundreds of years. They wanted to have power over the "little people", so they used what the "little people" held sacred: the Holy Bible.
The "even if angels come down to you" isn't even in the KJV, which is the Bible I hold sacred.
@Kingofcolor Yes I know the scirpture. and I agree. I also agree how clergy and there selfish desires wanted there own doctrines. but if you go back to the original writings. then there is the truth. why do you think the clergy were the only ones allowed to know the bible? I know you know. at least we agree on that. But there are writings (interleaner bible) that has been proven true. (by scholars) The KJV remember, the clergy were involved in that. but here is the JKV of Gal 1:8 cont
@shihtzufizzers cont from above gal 1 :8 in KJV But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. So it is in the KJV.
Preach any other gosple. you say you hold it sacred. but you put a book which a man, who commited adultry, states he got from an angel have more truth that the word of God. to me not ok. the bible states the exact words. if an angel, Smith said and angel gave to him. warning is there.
@shihtzufizzers Yes, survival. The mobs killed off a large portion of the men of the Church, so there was an overabundance of women and very few single men remaining. Part of Church doctrine is that starting a family is essential to salvation. Without a husband, a woman can't have children. The answer? Plural marriage was revealed to be God's solution.
Immoral? No. Joseph Smith actually only had Emma. He never married another woman, even though he could have under the doctrine.
@Kingofcolor he may have had a wife. but he did have extra marital affairs. It was not a mans place to decide on plural marraige when God says it was a no no. Like you said part of the church doctrine. not bible teachings. It is man made faith. like most others. I am not trying to change you in any way. just open your eyes. I studied multiple religions for 20 yrs, even mormons. I love history and saw alot of history made by mens selfishness, greed. Good day to you and take care.
cont. The concept that Smith had multiple wives is one of the lies. I talked to my bishop about it, and he knows a LOT more about Church history than I do. Claiming that we revere the Book of Mormon above the Holy Bible is another lie.
We believe in divine revelation for a good reason: are we less valuable to God than those who lived in ancient times? Why would He talk to them, but not us? Christ STAYED resurrected. He still lives to this day, and He SPEAKS, as does His Father.
@Kingofcolor because once the bible was complete and the word of God was done. there was no need for him to cont talking to us. everything he wanted us to know is in his book. We are not less valuable, for we have more than they did back then. some men only had parts of the bible. God does talk to us. through the bible. He gave us everything we need. For the bible warns us too, that after the apostles die, apostate teaching would arise. its all in the bible . even your answer to above ?
@shihtzufizzers That's not exactly what I meant. Remember: Gal 1:8 only says "angels". It's still that way in the JST, including telling people to beware of those who claim to have received revelations for the Church from ANGELS. However, God Himself ISN'T mentioned in the scripture you love so much... Except in the JST. It adds that God will speak for Himself on such matters, and angels are just a follow-up.
Joseph Smith said he saw the Father and the Son in the First Vision.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Smith said nothing about angels of any kind in the First Vision. The Father and the Son aren't angels. They're divine beings. Gal 1:8 only advises against believing those who claim to have only been visited by angels. A matter as important as restoring the gospel would require the Father's DIRECT INFLUENCE, as well as the Son's, so They spoke to Smith PERSONALLY.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Furthermore, the LDS Church has been hated since its founding.
Wouldn't the Devil try extra hard to destroy God's true church? So much so that he would try to turn all other Christian faiths against it? The only Christian faith that is hated that much is the LDS Church, which proves that it must be true since the Devil's trying so hard to destroy it.
The Devil tried to kill Smith PERSONALLY! Has the Devil attempted that at any other time? No.
@Kingofcolor Hated? no sorry they are not hated. JW's are hated. they have been persecuted througout history for there beliefs. right now in Russia for example we are being persecuted. in Germany, in 1940's they too were put in camps. I am glad you are so passionate about J. Smith. but I follow God not man. The JW live by the bible. follow christ expamples. Of course other faiths will go thru problems. if one faith was picked on only it would look obvious to the world who was the truth.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) The Devil knew that Smith's prayer was a huge threat to his evil plans, so he tried to snuff out Smith's life before it could pose a threat. The Devil ONLY tried to kill someone personally at that time. He never did it before, and he's never done it since. But something like that is the most obvious action for someone as twisted as the Devil to take to try to snuff out a threat that immense.
@Kingofcolor maybe the history of the JW's and propheceis in the bible you should look at. in the early 1900's JWs were inprisoned for speaking the truth. they were told they were there for life. they were in for 3.5 yrs; ( a prophecy) The devil up to this day tries to shut down our teaching, without success. The devil is always out there. not just on smith. he is working harder and harder since he knows his time is short. just take care ok. like I said< i follow God and his word not a mans
@shihtzufizzers Many LDS men were KILLED! The Saints were driven from their homes again and again, INCLUDING the city they established themselves (Nauvoo)! We are still persecuted to this day, just not by mobs anymore. Whenever someone leaves the LDS Church, they "can't leave it alone," to quote a General Authority. Every apostate on Youtube has at least one video bashing the Church and telling lies about it.
The JWs believe in a "chosen few", so they can't be true.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) God loves all His children INFINITELY, so why would He handpick a small sliver of them to be saved regardless of how bad they are and sentence the rest to eternal purgatory? That doesn't sound very much like the loving Father I know. It sounds like some socialist garbage to me. Where's the merit? Where's the learning? The spiritual growth? Where's the fairness in that? God is perfect, so He must be perfectly FAIR.
@Kingofcolor The bible tells us of two folds. little flock and great crowd. also yes God does love us all. that is also why the bible tells is he is patient to bringing his judgement for he does not wish anyone to be destroyed but for everyone to repent. secondly we know that in Noahs day there must of been good ppl but they were destroyed, why? because they did not listen to divine intervention from God. will happen again. it is not a bad thing for how long do the righteous have to wait
@Kingofcolor cont. it is not us who believe a certain way it is what the bible teaches. but we all have free will to choose whether we listen or not. It is completely fair. He is giving everyone a chance to listen to him. obey him. for he has every right to be worshiped. but the bible tells us, there is a judgement day for ones who choose there direction. you see, it is not a JW thing, it is a Bible teaching. So when you get upset about it, you are upset with God not us.
@shihtzufizzers First, God promised to NEVER devastate the world again. Second, those are the 144,000 ELDERS OF THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL! There are 12000 from each tribe who are SEALED, not saved. I have my KJV right here in front of me, and it uses the word "sealed" each time.
Second, read Rev 7:9, it destroys your "little flock" argument. Better yet, I'll provide it myself in my next comment.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Rev. 7:9-17: 9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which NO MAN COULD NUMBER, OF ALL NATIONS, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
10 "And cried in a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 11 "And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"
12 "Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."
13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, and MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB."
15 "Therefore, are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
16 "They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 17 "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
Not once is the word "flock" used. Nor is the word "saved" used. Furthermore, this doesn't even refer to the end of the world, since the Second Coming doesn't even happen until Chapter 14. All those in white robes are those who suffered for Christ's sake.
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Those in white are WITHOUT NUMBER, so there IS no "little flock" or "great crowd". Only the Elders and everyone else who suffered for God's work. Every time someone has to defend God's truth and suffer because of it, if they remain pure or make themselves pure, they are added to the group who will see God BEFORE the Second Coming, NOT just at it.
cont. Finally, grab yourself a copy of the JST Bible. Read that scripture from there. King James didn't get everything right, either. He didn't have his people translate directly from the original Hebrew and Greek, like Joseph Smith did.
Smith loved to read the HEBREW AND GREEK Bible. The differences between the original and even the KJV are staggering. Entire passages are reversed from the original, INCLUDING your precious Gal 1:8. The original states quite the opposite.
@Kingofcolor first you say you hold the KJV sacred. now you say another translation. as a matter of fact it is a translation of Joe Smith Translation. of course his is the only translation around that says that Gal 1:8 is different for it it did not, he would be able to admit his false teachings. He may have read Heb. and greek trans. but does not understand them. and he was an adulter and use God to get away with his immoral acts. Interleaner bible has greek,heb and eng. check it out.
You're spouting lies and rumors that were created by former members of the Church simply to make people like you hate us. It's NOT God's will to "sleep around". We believe the union between husband and wife to be so sacred that abstinence should be practiced until marriage, and everyone only has one partner each after marriage: their spouse. The doctrine of plural marriage has been suspended, since we no longer need it. It was there for survival purposes ONLY.
@Kingofcolor what lies? I am sorry if you misunderstood. what I was saying is this. Here is a man, Smith, who could not stay faithful to his wife. then tells his wife it is Gods will his "actions". she must of been pretty dumb. then a book shows up. the bible states that adultry is a big no no. so why would God use a immoral man? who is also a liar. (I've looked at his history)I know today the mormons no longer practice this, except the ones that break off the LDS and start ther own sects.
@Kingofcolor Survival? plenty of ppl were around in the 1800's. I understand it back in the bible beginings. yes but not in the 1800's. I am not saying any lies about the Mormons. I have friends who are mormons. I am just pointing out facts. I personally do no believe that God can not protect his word. and God would not use an cheater in marrage to spead his purpose. I have said too. history proves alot. before clergy in the early centries changed docrines, truth was there. just research it
@Kingofcolor ezekiels teaching has nothing to do with an additional religious book and nore does the the bible support this. the stick pertains to tribes. there were 10. they broke up (ephraim) then the other tribe levites. the 2 sticks were brought in to one are not books but kingdomes as indicated by ezekiel in eze 37:16. the tribes broke up and became one again. YOU see the bible nowhere says there are religious books but eze. tells us of north & south kingdoms reunited, not books
@shihtzufizzers the word "stick" in hebrew, in this case is actually better said "scroll." IE religious text. While the prophecy certainly does also refer to the tribes, it is a prophecy of the Book of Mormon.
Concerning the gathering, what does your church believeregarding the gathering of the 12 tribes?
@stevejames1012 this goes against many other scriptures. stick in hebrew is not scroll. stick can be a rod, or something used to beat. Or guide us. like the bible says not to spare the rod. it does not mean to beat children it means to guide like a sheppard used there rods to guide there sheep. Still the book of mormon does go against scriptures when taking all in and not just certain ones. Acts, Galatains, ect.
@shihtzufizzers stick doesn't translate as scroll. Sorry if I made it sound that way. Stick is referring to the scrolls that they used as scriptures at the time.
@stevejames1012 A Mormon friend told me that if the BoM does not say or agree with what the bible says, the BoM takes priority. That should not be the case. Do you have an Interlinear Bible? it is a bible with the original writings in hebrew and greek and translated into english. If you do, look at it. with just a few grammer differences. It says the same as today. Yes ppl have versions of the bible that do not say what the original writings but one bible does, it is the New World Translation
@shihtzufizzers The BoM does take priority because it hasn't suffered the mistranslations and the omissions of the bible. We learn through the BoM and modern revelation that the bible is missing main plain and precious truths. This is evident by several facts 1) the bible mentions several other books that are not in the bible, 2) there are epistles, events and teachings referred to in the bible that do not appear, cont
@shihtzufizzers cont 3) all Christian religions use the bible yet non have completely synonymous teachings. If the bible were all that were necessary, there would be no confusions about doctrines (especially key doctrines like baptism, resurrection, nature of God, etc.)
When I refer to different versions, I am not specifically talking about the New World Translation. In english alone there are several major translations with the King James version being the most widely used. cont.
@shihtzufizzers cont. while these may not vary substantially, there is enough difference to make it an issue. I do have an interlinear and am an amateur (very amateur lol) student of ancient Hebrew. In only a few months time, I have witnessed several subtle changes in Hebrew that could easily be understood in a differ net manner.
@stevejames1012 This bible went back to the original writings. The standard bible, which was "versioned" about 10 ish yrs ago, i think, is a bad version, yet can be explained. mainly born again and baptist use this bible. The BOM, is a book given to a Man. by an angel, or so called. Bible gives us info not to fall for this. But IF you are happy in your faith, then great, just don't stop learning, research info and always ask why. I did and found the truth. Wish you the best steve.:)
@shihtzufizzers The bible was also given to MAN. In fact, it was given to many men. It is simply a compilation of several old writings that a council of MEN found significant enough to include as canon. It has been reformed, edited, added to, taken from and changed hundreds of times over the years. This is why God revealed the BoM, much in the same manner as the bible. The two work hand in hand. If you read the BoM, you would see what I am talking about.
@shihtzufizzers I love researching and make a habit of studying sacred texts and ideas of all faiths. I find them reinforcing. One LDS believe is that GOd has revealed His gospel since Adam through dispensations and that those teachings have been dissipated throughout time and traces of them can be found all over. I see this phenomenon all the time. That is why I love studying other faiths and LOVE the gospel.
@shihtzufizzers LDS people are encouraged to learn. We are commanded to study all kinds of books and ideas. Our leaders often quote no-scriptural sources, everything from Shakespeare to Frost. We understand that all knowledge is good and comes from God. Brigham Young, the second president of the church, is oft quoted as telling the saints to "not believe (his) words, but to pray about them (themselves)." no doctrine should ever be accepted without asking why and seeking confirmation.
@shihtzufizzers Anyone, of any faith, who accepts anything without true study, analysis, prayer and confirmation from the Holy Ghost is walking blindly. We cannot be saved in ignorance.
@stevejames1012 the tribes is an in depth subject. I am assuming you are talking about josephs sons. and the promise land. it is also in 'Rev. but in REv it is symbolic because some the the tribes mentioned there were not named in the isrealite tribes. 12X12 is 144,000 which is the # of the little flock (there is a great crowd) that will serve as priest and priesess in heaven w/ jesus in his 1000 yr rule. But this is way advanced info for YT. this is a whole other subject and big at that
@shihtzufizzers I'm impressed that you seem to have a good understanding of the gathering of the tribes. I agree that it is way to advanced for YT> MY question is, do you believe that a literal gathering is happening?
@stevejames1012 you mean the gathering of the 144,000? if so yes, the first century christians are a big chunk of them. you can tell this by Pauls writings. Once Jesus took the thrown in heaven in 1914, kicked Satan out of the heavens and down to the earth (in REv) the gathering began. REv. tells us they will rule as priest and priestess in heaven with Christ. Again this is deep info.
@stevejames1012 you see, God created adam and eve to live forever in paradise on earth. Satan messed that up. but God does not change, as the bible says. The bible does say the earth will last for ever and we will reside upon it. The earth and Gods purpose will go back to it original design. The great crowd will live on earth. God did not create us to be angels, he made them way before man, and this is a man made doctrine, Again, this is alot of info. If u like we can talk through messages
@shihtzufizzers Messages would be great. One must remember the first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve. That was to multiply and replenish the Earth. IE have children. They however, had no knowledge of how to do that nor did they understand good vs evil. Had they stayed in Eden, we would not be born and they would not progress.
The Earth will be restored to the glory of Eden and even surpass it. It will be inherited by the meek.
@stevejames1012 God did say to populate the earth. yes, who says they did not know how to have sex before they sinned? of course they would. God created them with that instinct. it is not a sin to have intercourse with your mate. What is a sin is fornication, lusting over another mans wife, adultry. Man has made sex dirty, the bible guides us to this area and a happy marriage. If they never sinned in there perfect state, we would be perfect today. but they did not. WE are not perfect (cont)
@shihtzufizzers the inference that they did not not know how is in Gen. 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;"
LDS people believe that they actually ate a fruit that brought them out of their immortal state and into a fallen state.
I agree that man has made sex dirty. It is a beautiful thing and a most sacred thing.
@stevejames1012 Once they sinned they became embarrased of their nakedness. Gen 3:16 says That God would INCREASE labor pains. showing that they must of known about sex and pregnancy. But now to their introduction to imperfection, now it would become painful. The fruit did bring them out of the Glory of God, yet it was There Actions that did it even more, their lack of love for there heavenly father. Satans' lie won! We too believe this is true
@stevejames1012 because our orginal parents were not perfect. just like if a bread pan is dented, each loaf comes out with a dent. we are dented alot! They knew what was good, they had the ability to speak to God in a perfect state. They choose to be deceived, that is why the devil said "is it not so" he put doubt in there head. he is tricky, but as for marital sex. God created the first married couple to have children. and I am sure just as you know how to have sex, they did to. why not?
@shihtzufizzers THey were perfect in a sense, but did not know the difference between good and evil. We see this in Gen. 2:17 and 3:5. They knew that they should not partake of the fruit, but didn't understand good and evil. This was learned after they partook of the fruit. Satan is tricky indeed.
We can also infer that they didn't have children because children are never mentioned until after they left.
@stevejames1012 But they did know the difference between right and wrong. Eve selfishly want to "be like God" and determine what the Good and Bad instead of abiding on God judgement on this matter. So in a sense she knew the difference. She was disobeying Gods law. bad=evil . then Adam had to join her. WHy? because he did not trust God he knew it was "bad" or evil, disobeying God but he may have not wanted to loose his wife. He did not trust God to fix it. obey-good see?
@shihtzufizzers I view it more like a young child who steals a candy bar without the knowledge of it being wrong or right. They just want candy, there is no ethical or moral thought process. We read that Adam and Eve "transgressed" the law. The difference in transgression is 1) there is no malice toward God, 2) there is not an understanding of the sin.
@shihtzufizzers Someone who has never heard of Christ and only knows the religion that they grew up with is still breaking God's commandments, but they don't know it. Thus, still wrong, but not sin. Similar to Adam and Eve.
@stevejames1012 Adam and eve were perfect. they knew exactly what they were doing. they choose there path and sinned. No where in the bible does it tell us they did not know how to have sex before taken out of Eden. BUt you are right. the earth will become a paradise, Isa, tells us about it. it will be an abundance of peace. sounds wonderful compared to today huh?
@shihtzufizzers This passage refers to that particular book. Remember that Galatians was a letter to the Galatians, a people who were members of the church in ancient times. In fact, nearly all of the NT books (minus the gospels) were epistles or letters written to that particular book.
@stevejames1012 This would be convenient for you if this was true, but remember that in 2 tim 3:15 , 16 says that ALL scriptures are inspired by God and are for are teaching, reproving, setting thing straight ect. So The books do not pertain to only those ppl back then ,, God inspired ppl to write them for us today. as mentioned in the bible. For even the writers did not know what they are writing, why? because some thing were not meant for them to know, it was for us today. See?
@shihtzufizzers all scripture is inspired. This does not meant that all scripture is directed to everyone at everytime. Take, for example the Old Testament. If we applied the idea that the words cannot be changed to the Old Testament, then we would still be doing sacrifices and living the law of Moses. That is one very broad example. I can get more specific if you'd like.
I have no doubt that the bible was written under inspiration of us today. However, it is incomplete and has been tarnished
@stevejames1012 no need to get more specific. AS for the OT , it tells us why we do not sacrifice animals blood anymore, Jesus (the lamb) was the final sacrifice for our sins, so that we MAY have everlasting life. YEt Jesus does speak of the mosaic law and what is still kept such as the 10 commandments.As for being tampered with, that has never been proved. In the interlinear bible which is the original writings it says same thing as today except for a few grammer understandings (cont)
@stevejames1012 and there are many findings today to prove it factual and info in the bible verifies this if studied intently. One should also understand the creator of the universe could protect a book of his own inspirations. So once studied and understood, you would see that the scripture in Gal. has to do with us today not just a short period of time. Why would he add to his word once saying it will not be done. Once the bible was written, he was done.
@shihtzufizzers The bible was written once by many, compiled by many more, translated and trnascribed by even more, kept out of the hands of even more and now hos several versions. Which version of the bible is the true one?
@stevejames1012 the bible has not been tampered with but there are many versions, as LDS use the KJ version in the book of moromons would this not mean the book itself is tampered if you go by what you are saying? as for prophets how can you say your "president is a prophet when no other prophets such as moses, micah,ect are mentioned in the bible but not yours is foretold. Isa 40;8 READ IT. therefore REv 22:19 is not in contriciton for many have tried and failed in altering Gods word.
@shihtzufizzers Joseph Smith AND the BoM WERE predicted in the Bible:
Isa 29:11-12: "And the vision of all is become unto you as the WORDS OF A BOOK THAT IS SEALED which men deliver unto one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
Read it, then come back. It's there. I have more, but I don't have space here.
@Kingofcolor first prophets have names in the bible, Joe Smith not in it. 2. the script says visions of everything become LIKE books, not A BOOK. When a something is sealed,it was not for there understanding back then, It was meant for our time now. and there is a script that says that too. DAniel, I believe asked what he was seeing in visions, and he was told not for his time to know. (DAn 12:9) says sealed up, a vision, see?
@Kingofcolor after the bible was written, God did not need prophets to prophesy anymore, did not need to preform miracles, why would he, his inpspired word was done. The bible does give us what to expect in the future, what to look for toward the end of times. BUT never says anything about upcoming prophets. Did you read Isa 40 :8? You cant ignore some scriptures, take some and with misunderstanding because you choose to disregard others.
@Kingofcolor when you take ALL scriptures to the subject, you would see that no real book coming, bible says it would not happen, visions are sealed because it was not for those prophets to know. not another book per other bible writings. just like ezeikel and the stick of judah, ephraim, it was kingdoms as mentioned before. So please don;t ignore scriptures to see the real truth. I think it is wonderful you read the bible. I am so glad we can converse back and forth with kindness. thank you
@stevejames1012 also the bible says God is unpartial but was there not a time when blacks were not allowed to be mormons?Acts 10:34,35 How can this be altered? for example of ones trying to change teachings is trinitarins and John !:!. they have failed miserably here. you see anyone changing will fail. So with this info (and I have more) Book of mormons fits Gal 1:8 (and the quran
@shihtzufizzers Uh... No. Blacks were NOT banned from the Church. God simply told us the "curse of Cain" hadn't been fulfilled yet. Cain's descendants were banned from having the power of the Priesthood "for a time," and that "time" hadn't expired yet. I don't know why God decided to make it take so long, but He did. I have a few black Mormon friends myself, and they can't even answer that question. However, they believe it was fair since God eventually lifted it.
@Kingofcolor what? even NOah had colored family members that God saved! Curse of Cain. even if this is true, who said it was black ppl? Again, scriptures taken out of context. God created us all as his earthly children. WE are all cursed with death because of adam and eve. CAin's mark or curse had to do w/ his banishment, ( I will research this for more detalils)
@Kingofcolor after looking it up yes Cain curse was of his banashment. His cultivating of the land would be harder than rest of his family (GEn 4: 10-15 shows this) which this curse was allready on the earth, just cains would be worse. No where does it say this curse or sign would be on Cains person in anyway. so it could not reflect on his offspring or color of any skin.
@shihtzufizzers This is where I have to disagree. The leaders of the LDS Church have done the Genealogy work for every President of the United States, and for several other current world leaders. Obama, and every other Black leader can trace their ancestry back to Cain (our Church is VERY good at this). Coincidence? I think not.
@stevejames1012 there are original writing and ppl who have looked into this to show otherwise, "The bible from the begining" a book, says no other ancient book is so well attested as the bible, when compared to other writings such as plato, ect. this really doesnt matter but it does help stand by Isa 40:8, Gal 1:8. Sir Frederic Kenon, scholar, states that from examination of the papyri (old writings)it is confirmed the essential soundness of the existing text . Again bible stands true
@shihtzufizzers That makes no sense, people also say that it is completely false. You can't rely on the opinions of men to confirm your assumptions of what is true. That is why we have the Holy Ghost to tell us what is and what is not true.
As I said before, the bible is great and true. It has just been tampered with. The proof of this lies in the bible itself.
@shihtzufizzers You can't rely on what men, no matter who they are when it comes what you believe. There are also well respected scholars who claim that the bible is completely false. We have been given the Spirit so that He can tell us what is true. Not some scholar.
@shihtzufizzers If you would like a more detailed example of this fallacy, see the scripture in Rev which states "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." REv. 22:19
If this were reffering to the whole bible then we would not have the books of John, Johns 1-3 and several others.
@shihtzufizzers If we did the same with the similar scripture in Leviticus that tells not to add or take away, then we would have only the first three books.
Fact is, the bible was written by God through prophets, then tainted by man. you ask why wouldn't God prepare a way? I answer, He did, it's caled the Book of Mormon and it testifies hand in hand with the bible
@shihtzufizzers Furthermore, there are several books mentioned in the bible that are not in the bible. If the bible were complete, this would not be the case
John prophesied of an angel flying in the midst of heaven bringing the everlasting gospel to the inhabitants of the earth in the last days.Right ther in revelations.:)
the bible has been changed too many times, + the devil had & is living between sociy 4 times in terms of bible+ it is unfair and unlogic that profets and teachings are gone and still teaching todays world by society dividers.We need a true prophet and true revelations on a new world of government and tecnology, because the final seventh prophesy is about to come.
@magoderockadan there is a bible called the interleanier bible that has the original writing compared to today. and with just a few minor grammer errors, it says the same thing. Dont you believe the creator of the universe can protect a book? IF any other book was to have 40 or so aurthors, and took over 1600yrs to write it would not have the same theme and harmounious thought. even if 2 writers cant stay on same theme. So of course it is protected. God will not allow satan to change his word
How can anyone believe this story?! Are you fucking kidding me!?
ystein3000 2 months ago
what the hell is this im looking for the south park book of mormon.
facepace2 4 months ago 4
@facepace2 Haha, same here dude xD
ystein3000 2 months ago
mmmm do you know what i like doing? Busting a hot steamy load on the bible while watching gay jesus porn :) yummy
DieOrBlink 5 months ago
Magnets, how do they work.
CyberNeonChrist 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
it was written in before the BoM in Galatians 1:8 (But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.)(New King James Version)
dickens509 7 months ago
the of is true mormon is true is the testament of jesus christ and it got some parts of the bible to and to know it is true you got to pray and you will know fill the spirit
bluejoker713 8 months ago
@bluejoker713 I was an enthusiastic investigator of LDS. Given my fascinations with Messianic Judaism, the lands of Central America and her people, and Native American cultures, i really though I'd found sonething unique. i read BoM, prayed on it, prayed for guidance, and the answer I received was "Get digging....." "Unique"?? Yes. True?? No.
I did. The Book of Mormon is poorly written religious fiction, nothing more.
CounterCultureLives 6 months ago
One comment I will made to this... those who watch this video..... can be found in James 1:5. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
thats all, remember knowledge and wisdom are different... and also remember that this two should be in balanced. thats my great teacher told to me...
verderamp 10 months ago
Some examples of Mormon plagiarism:
1. 1 Nephi 20:21 Isaiah 48:49
2. 2 Nephi 7:8 Isaiah 50:51
3. 2 Nephi 12:24 Isaiah 2:14
4. Mosiah 14 Isaiah 53
5. 3 Nephi 12:14 Matthew 5:7
6. 3 Nephi 22 Isaiah 54
7. 3 Nephi 24:25 Malachi 3:4
rickgigliotti 11 months ago
The Book of Mormon is sooooo true!
KenM66 1 year ago
Wow these guys are so dumb..... Check out the FAIR.ORG channel for a review on this doco.
Dafrogie 1 year ago
@Dafrogie Here are some other websites people should investigate:
Foundation for Archaeological Imaginings for Latter Day Saints: FAIL.D.S.org
Foundation for Omniscient Observations for Latter Day Saints: FOOL.D.S.org
Society for Historically Imagined Lands for Latter Day Saints: SHILL.D.S.org
CounterCultureLives 11 months ago
@CounterCultureLives if these sites REALLY exist then why do we hav eto loook on a...only a LDS sponsored site to learn about them?if jesus started a new church in america..wouldnt there have STILL been an lds curch in 1492?and if the BOM is true then why arent the christians and the lds UNIFIED?oh you speaking AGINST the lds?my bad...
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
This is blatently biased, there abundant evidence for the Book of Mormon in all areas of science and to ignore them is dishonest. Watch the videos on the MormonDefenders channel and then tell me there is no evidence for it. You can "prove wrong" pretty much anything on the internet with dishonest data.
Beckinz1 1 year ago
@Beckinz1 There is NO credible evidence to support BoM which has been independently authenticated by unbiased experts. Heck, Mormons can't even agree on the geography of BoM, (there are no maps found in BoM) much less the other sciences which would support any unbiased conclusions of authenticity.
Where is Zarahemla?? Where is The city of Nephi??Where is (the REAL) Hill Cumorah??
Please get back to me ASAP; I've got first dibs on the snow-cone & cotton candy concessions!!
CounterCultureLives 11 months ago
@Beckinz1 riiiggghhhttt..and tahts why 80% of south/latin america follows CATHOLiciism?if your religion was so strong then why did it die out?LMAO
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
Gal 1:8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. Who gave the book of MOrmons to J. Smith, an angel? the bible pre warns us about taking teachings that add to take from Gods word. PRE WARNS. please just research and find out for yourself. Goes for the quran too.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Uh... One problem: the Bible mentions another set of doctrine to complete God's word.
The Bible calls itself the "Stick of Judah" at one point (I'll get back to you on that, I don't have my Bible or JST with me right now). The bible is, in fact mainly about the people of the tribe of Judah. The Bible then mentions the "Stick of Ephraim." So, what is this account of the tribe of Ephraim? The Book of Mormon! Lehi (the first prophet in it) is descended from Ephraim!
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor This does not refer to this at all . I believe it has to do w/ the teaching of a time and a half a time ... The bible would did not say what is mentioned from be above with the clause, "only if someone is handed a book. YOu can not pick and choose what works best for you. It simply says, If ANYONE adds or takes away they will be accursed. I too will research this and get back to you.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Oh? what about your precious Catholic CREEDS, you hypocrite? The creeds were created by mere mortals without divine aid, and yet, every Christian faith follows them, EXCEPT for us "Mormons"! Explain how the creeds aren't "adding to" the scriptures!
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor Oh, just to let you know I am NOT a catholic. I agree with you 100% on what they have done in making there own doctines which have nothing to do with God. They idol worship, ask forgivness without really being sorry and commit the same sins over and over, teach of hell fire when God despised of false religion of burning ones chilren (baal worship) I am a JW. and we do not add nothing to the scriptures, we live by them to the best of our ability.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Cool
jferristube 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor I am so sorry you thought I was catholic. I admit the Mormons have very strong family ties and every Mormon I know are very kind. All I ask is to be careful. for Matthew tells us not everyone calling in the name of the lord will be saved. also says to keep a simple eye, (money for example) and Jesus was a humble poor man. All things to think about, the bible tells us what to look for in the true faith. Just with an open mind look into it k? your choice and take care k :)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers One thing: I find the Bible VERY unreliable at times. It was translated from Hebrew to Greek, Greek to Latin, Latin to German, and THEN from German to English! MANY things can be lost through such indirect translation!
1. It claims that God "repented" for creating man before the flood. Uh... God can't sin, so why would He repent?
2. In the "Lord's prayer," no matter what version you read, it says: "lead us not into temptation." God doesn't tempt!
The JST fixes these.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor you are right God does not sin. he was hurt by man, he felt he should not of made us at all. Lords prayer, God does not lead us into temptation, The scripture when taken from the original writings says, do not bring us into temptation but deliver us from the wicked one. asking God for help with temptaion From satan. This is why you have to go back to the original writings for after the apostles died, yes the clergy of the day decided to make it benefit them.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor When looking into the scriptures you would see that it is asking God to protect us from temptation. God never sinned. You have to read the entire scripture not just the first half
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Before you try to convince me to stop being LDS anymore, allow me to tell you WHY I MUST be LDS (and no, it's not because I was born into the faith, but I'll explain why my parents being LDS isn't a factor later).
Back when I was fifteen, I did a LOT of soul searching, and I discovered I didn't know WHY I believed what I do. So I set out to discover EXACTLY what core points I base my choice in religion on (I had even planned on possibly changing religions).
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor as for the shape of God lets read 1 john 4:12. says no one at any time has beheld God. no one knows what Gods glorious heavenly body looks like so how can it be compared to mans? (john 4:24)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Problem! Adam saw God, Moses saw God, and Jesus Himself saw the Father! Besides, ones image is NOT ones emotional traits OR ones actions. You CAN'T convince me otherwise, since it took me MONTHS of soul-searching, research, logic and reasoning to come up with this! I'm going to bed soon, so I'll have to bid you good night after telling you one thing: I had a PERSONAL vision of the Father speaking to me in the premortal world. He spoke to me, and He looks like a man.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
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@Kingofcolor I am not trying to convince you, the bible tells us no man has beheld God. not me, I am just pointing out scriputres,nothing more. the bible tells us no man has ever seen God, So they could not of physically seen God, but visions of what God was using, (angels, burning bush ect) Be careful of vision, for the bible does tell us the devil can act as an angel of light. You know why Satan became a serpent in Eden?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers good points but we will know the diffrenc between an angel God and satan or any of his angels
jferristube 6 months ago
@jferristube well The bible also says beware of angels of light. Satan and his demons can play nice just to cause damage.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Cont. First, I realized I needed to use logic to determine what I believed about the nature of deity, which is the most basic foundation of any faith.
My research and logic resulted in these core principles:
1) All order in the universe points to the existence of a divine being. (this ruled out Atheism)
2) God created Man in His image, so He MUST look like a man.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor Yes I agree Atheism cant even come close to being correct. As for being created in the Image of God this has to do with his traits, love, justice, ect. GOd is a spirit being. WE are not. There fore we really cant say that, no where does it ever say God looks like ANYTHING. But we know his traits by studying the bible. BTW, I am not trying to tell you not to be a Mormon. I just like to talk to ppl who have a love for God and his word.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers if it has to do with traits then why didnt god use the word"traits" Moses spoke to him as one man speaketh to another.Pretty self explanitary.He saw his back parts etc as well.Image and traits are 2 diffrent things with 2 seperate meanings.Scripture also says god is a consuming fire.So what is He.A consuming fire or a spirit.I think god expects us to use some of our own intelligence to figure things out.Specially the obvious at least.
jferristube 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Cont.
3) If Man was created in the image of God, what about Woman? God is male, so for Woman to also be modeled in the image of deity, God MUST have a female counterpart who existed when Eve was created. (this ruled out the Virgin Mary theory about the nature of God's counterpart.)
4) Jesus can't have prayed to Himself when He taught us how to pray, so He and the Father are separate beings.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor again God is a spirit. see above reply. God made Eve for Adam as a mate or wife, he saw the animals having mates and wondered why he did not (see Gen chapt 2) God created Eve for Adam, a perfect counterpart. . 4. Yes you bet! The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is not God. It is amazing how some ppl dont see this. dont you agree?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I must disagree. One of the other points I came to is that the Father, like the Son, has a glorified body of flesh and bone. God does not have flesh and blood as Man does, since that would make Him mortal. He has become immortal, but eternal life is not simply a restatement of immortality. Eternal life is the state of having all time be as one, or "divinity." God wants to bring about the "immortality and ETERNAL LIFE of man," or "spiritual adulthood" of Man.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Cont.
5)I see the Father as a loving, caring Father of ALL His spirit children, on EVERY world He's created. So, if He's a loving Spirit Parent, wouldn't He love us in the way mortal parents do? My mortal parents raised me to become a loving, caring mortal father (I've yet to find a wife to make that possible yet). So wouldn't our Heavenly Father want something similar? It's because of this that I MUST believe in the Deification of Man. JW's don't.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor your right. the bible does tell us that he will not wait forever. He is patient right now for he does not desire to destroy anyone. ( see 2 Pet 3 :9) This scripture does show that some will be destroyed for disobedience and ignoring divine warning. Noahs day is a good example. but for how long will he allow his righteous ones to be persecuted? God does love us in a perfect sense. He cannot lie and tells us what will happen if we chose not to obey him
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers God has not selected a "chosen few" as you JW's believe (my uncle was one after he left the Church after getting a concussion and losing much of his memories, including his reasons for being LDS, so I know a little bit about what you believe). The 144,000 elders are NOT the "chosen few" as you claim. They are just that: 144,000 elders, led by Michael the Archangel (whose mortal name was Adam, the first man). He will allow anyone to be saved if they do what is right.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor the 144,000 are not all elders or such. I know alot about what I believe. YOu made your point, you said IF they do what is RIGht. not all will chose this. anyone can be saved if they chose to do so. Why is the number 144,000 in the bible as the little flock if they are not the so called chosen few as you say? They have a purpose. Why do we go to DRs when we are sick? why do we prolong life if heaven is so blissful?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Look, really, I've got to go to bed! I really don't like what you people have done to my uncle: he died a VERY unhappy man. He felt alone, and unsure of what was going to happen to him when he died, and not even where he came from! My mom spoke at his funeral, and she BURNED the trashy speech you people wanted her to say.
My uncle's spirit came to my mom after he died, and he asked her to do temple work for him so he could be saved. We did, and his soul is safe. Good night.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor go to bed, remember, the bible says the dead are conscience of nothing. no memories, no pain no wages, in eccl.9:5 tells us this. I am not going to go on and on either. All I have done is point out what the bible says, not my thoughts but the bibles. You had visions, dreams, ect and the bible tells us to beware of these things. So good night and stay happy, I have two good friends who are mormons and I love them dearly. I have nothing against u or your faith, just know that ok
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I understand that. I'm sorry if you took what I said personally. However, after reading everything you've written here, I've come across a HUGE problem: What purpose is there to do good if there is no reward? If a select few has been chosen to be saved while everyone else won't be, what point is there to do good? If you are chosen, you can do as much evil as you wish, since you'll be saved anyway. If you weren't, all the good you do won't matter, so you might as well sin.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor why do good? we are saved through Christ, but faith is dead with out works. if we truly believe Christ is the one and the all we want to do good works because they were his original plan and we love him. If we are accepting his forgiveness we accept a relationship with him. A continuation of sinning would show that we have not changed and we have no real desire for God, but just a get-out-of-hell free card.
Truthfully, just doing works for your own good. Misses the whole point.
channel2E 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor
I ran out of characters... haha
it misses the point because it is not a change of heart, but the works then are out of fear of punishment and hope for reward.
channel2E 1 year ago
@channel2E Uh... No. I just need a REASON to do things, just as I need a REASON to live. My beliefs MUST answer the "whys" of life, because if they don't, what's the point? To my mind, EVERYTHING has a point! God gave everything a reason, and I must KNOW those reasons. I will not do things blindly for no purpose. I MUST have purpose! And being LDS gives everything I do a purpose. Don't presume you know more about me than I've said.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor but a choosen one can be un-chosen. think about it Judas was a disciple of christ, he had it but lost it because of what he did. When one is lost there position, someone else is chosen. the 144,000 is a # in the bible and there are the little flock, for the bible also says there is a great crowd which no man is able to number. showing 2 groups. The bible tells us of our reward Matt 5:5 happy are the mild tempered for they will inherit the earth.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor So yes there is a reward who serve God as he wants to be worship. (bible tells us what he wants) When Adam sinned did it say he would go to heaven? no he would return to the ground where he came from. after all why would he be rewarded for what he did. We were made to live on earth. after all if adam never sinned, would he have gone to heaven? no not our purpose. God promises us a paradise earth to inhrerit. and for the little flock, they r the 144,000 ruling w/ christ in heaven
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers yes Adams physical body went to the grave and his spirit returned to God who gave it.
jferristube 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers perhaps that scripture cud mean "not conscious"of anything mortal or to do with this life?The Bible says that Christ went to the Spirits in prison who had perishd in the flood and began the preaching of the gospel to them there.That tells me that the spirits of the dead are indeed conscious and are able to comprehend.Think for themselves.Learn the gospel etc.It is clear that He went to the world of Spirits to teach to those who had passed on.Simple
jferristube 6 months ago
@jferristube No where in the bible does it say we go to heaven. In fact Paul tells us of two folds. One with a heavenly hope and one for an earthly hope. Revaltions gives us a number. this is a lot of info for this little box. so my suggestion to you is this. next time you have a chance, just ask a JW how they come up with these teachings. AND only use the bible. These Ideas are not our own but thru the bible. History teaches us alot. Prophecies be proven now. Just do it for knowledge ok
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor if heaven is so blissful and we all go there, why is death so hard for us? IT is because we were never meant to die. it is not natural in our hearts. for God put to time indefinent in our hearts. He created us to life forever in a paradise earth and his purpose has not changed for God can not change. if it did change that means satan won
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor every world? If there were perfect man on other worlds, God would not need to prove his point. Satan has chalenged God that no one were serve him without benefiting from it (Job is an expample) Satan also chalanged Gods right to rule. If this all ready has been proven somewhere else, why are we here.? WE are being test to our loyalty. God created angels and spirit being way before man, he does not need anymore. Our purpose is not heavenly. WE were created to live on earth
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers This is, sadly, where I must disagree once again. You have read my logic, and you can't convince me that I was wrong. I SAW THE FACE OF GOD! I have seen friends in the preexistence in my vision that I know went to other worlds. furthermore, Abraham saw ALL the worlds God created, and the humans who lived on them. (This was removed from the Bible by some of the greedy nutjobs who altered it, but we have them, thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls).
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor No where in the bible does it say we go to heaven. that is a man made doctrine. it does speak of a great crowd and a little flock, two groups. The great crowd has an earthly hope, and little flock 144,000 rule in heaven for a 1000 yrs w/ Jesus as priest and priestess. We are not spirit beings. this is not taught in the bible and in hebrew and greek writings Spirit has different meanings in each language
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers *Sigh* You're really starting to bug me. I'm going to only say this once: Actually READ the Standard Works, then pray to God in the manner Mormon (or was it Moroni? I always get those two mixed up) tells us to. No prayers by rote, just a simple prayer to know if what you read is true. Don't pray to disprove, pray to KNOW. That's why my uncle never rejoined the Church after the accident. He prayed to disprove, and the Devil answered him. I was there, and I felt the evil.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor Sorry I am bugging you I thought we were just conversing. I will let you go now, Go get some sleep now and I will not "bug you anymore" good day.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor we do we pray for holy spirit, in the name of jesus christ. to guide us. to learn and to take in knowledge of God and Jesus . We do follow the bible and nothing evil about that. Sorry you feel so bad about it. Good night. and have a wondeful day at school tomorrow.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor ummm..but your boook references civilzations and cultures thatt no historical records of exist??
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Oh, yes. I forgot to say something: I really have to go to bed now (I have college in the morning), so can we continue this some other time? Good night.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Cont.
6) Now, if the Father wants His children to grow up spiritually and become divine, doesn't that make it possible that HE used to be mortal in another universe where HIS father reigned? I'm not saying it's the case, because there has to be a beginning somewhere, but I believe it's POSSIBLE.
7) If the Father loves all His children equally, why would he stop speaking to us? My answer is: He didn't. People just stopped listening.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor /bible says God had no begining and no end. He never was mortal. that would mean he had a begining. Eve wanted to be like God, and look what happened to them? It is not taught anywhere we are to become divine. God stopped speaking to us because we are imperfect and he is not. He does however speak to us in the way of his word in the bible, listens and answers are prayers. THat is how now,
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers By your logic Christ was created and must have had a beginning as he was born like all of us.Of course we know he existed as a spirit before he came here to receive a physical body.The same for us all.Our spirit selves xisted before birth according to the bible.Our spirits did not all of a sudden flare into existence at birth.Our spirit selves existed long before our physical births.This is my biblical understanding.Your thoughts will no doubt disagree.Will they?
jferristube 6 months ago
@jferristube YOu must look at Ps 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground in that day his thoughts do perish" The hebrew word "spirit" is a derivative of "ru'ach. Some translations reder it "breath" When that "ru'ach or active life force, leave the body, the persons thought perish; they do not cont' in another realm. You see the word spirit and soul have two meanings in greek and hebrew. so seeing this you can see the meaning behind the words. Spirit = breath. we die it is gone.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@jferristube I am not trying to prove you wrong. just look at all aspects. God created angels way before humans. so why would he need more? Adam and Eve were created to live in a paradise earth and pro create humans. The bible says God can not change, He never once told Adam or Eve that when they die they go to heaven or even any of there children. Why Because someday, paradise will be established again. God wont let satan stand in the way of his original plan. Isaiah tells us this.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor I believe that the creator of the universe and all it contains can protect a book. When something does not make sence then research, dont throw it away as wrong. I have and doing this I have looked into greek/hebrew history and language. ARch. finding have shown the bible to be accurate. even science. such as the world being a circle is in the bible, how come ones in the 1500's not see this? because they were blinded. I know the mormons take the words written in the book of cont"
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers But you take this book over the bible. The bible is written By God, and way before The book of Mormon came along the bible warns us about this situation in Galatians. I know I have said this before. But this was a man stating an Angel gave him the writings. EXACTLY what Galatians said to be warned about. ":even if an angels comes down to you". A man wanting his own faith, a man wanting many wifes, or find a way to tell his wife its Gods will to sleep around. Not to trustworthy.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers No. We believe the Bible to ALSO be the word of God, "as long as it is translated correctly."
The Holy Bible has had important parts left out to satisfy the selfish desires of paid clergy for hundreds of years. They wanted to have power over the "little people", so they used what the "little people" held sacred: the Holy Bible.
The "even if angels come down to you" isn't even in the KJV, which is the Bible I hold sacred.
Read James 1:5 and then come back.
Kingofcolor 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor Yes I know the scirpture. and I agree. I also agree how clergy and there selfish desires wanted there own doctrines. but if you go back to the original writings. then there is the truth. why do you think the clergy were the only ones allowed to know the bible? I know you know. at least we agree on that. But there are writings (interleaner bible) that has been proven true. (by scholars) The KJV remember, the clergy were involved in that. but here is the JKV of Gal 1:8 cont
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers cont from above gal 1 :8 in KJV But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. So it is in the KJV.
Preach any other gosple. you say you hold it sacred. but you put a book which a man, who commited adultry, states he got from an angel have more truth that the word of God. to me not ok. the bible states the exact words. if an angel, Smith said and angel gave to him. warning is there.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Yes, survival. The mobs killed off a large portion of the men of the Church, so there was an overabundance of women and very few single men remaining. Part of Church doctrine is that starting a family is essential to salvation. Without a husband, a woman can't have children. The answer? Plural marriage was revealed to be God's solution.
Immoral? No. Joseph Smith actually only had Emma. He never married another woman, even though he could have under the doctrine.
Kingofcolor 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor he may have had a wife. but he did have extra marital affairs. It was not a mans place to decide on plural marraige when God says it was a no no. Like you said part of the church doctrine. not bible teachings. It is man made faith. like most others. I am not trying to change you in any way. just open your eyes. I studied multiple religions for 20 yrs, even mormons. I love history and saw alot of history made by mens selfishness, greed. Good day to you and take care.
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
cont. The concept that Smith had multiple wives is one of the lies. I talked to my bishop about it, and he knows a LOT more about Church history than I do. Claiming that we revere the Book of Mormon above the Holy Bible is another lie.
We believe in divine revelation for a good reason: are we less valuable to God than those who lived in ancient times? Why would He talk to them, but not us? Christ STAYED resurrected. He still lives to this day, and He SPEAKS, as does His Father.
Kingofcolor 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor because once the bible was complete and the word of God was done. there was no need for him to cont talking to us. everything he wanted us to know is in his book. We are not less valuable, for we have more than they did back then. some men only had parts of the bible. God does talk to us. through the bible. He gave us everything we need. For the bible warns us too, that after the apostles die, apostate teaching would arise. its all in the bible . even your answer to above ?
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers That's not exactly what I meant. Remember: Gal 1:8 only says "angels". It's still that way in the JST, including telling people to beware of those who claim to have received revelations for the Church from ANGELS. However, God Himself ISN'T mentioned in the scripture you love so much... Except in the JST. It adds that God will speak for Himself on such matters, and angels are just a follow-up.
Joseph Smith said he saw the Father and the Son in the First Vision.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Smith said nothing about angels of any kind in the First Vision. The Father and the Son aren't angels. They're divine beings. Gal 1:8 only advises against believing those who claim to have only been visited by angels. A matter as important as restoring the gospel would require the Father's DIRECT INFLUENCE, as well as the Son's, so They spoke to Smith PERSONALLY.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Furthermore, the LDS Church has been hated since its founding.
Wouldn't the Devil try extra hard to destroy God's true church? So much so that he would try to turn all other Christian faiths against it? The only Christian faith that is hated that much is the LDS Church, which proves that it must be true since the Devil's trying so hard to destroy it.
The Devil tried to kill Smith PERSONALLY! Has the Devil attempted that at any other time? No.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@Kingofcolor Hated? no sorry they are not hated. JW's are hated. they have been persecuted througout history for there beliefs. right now in Russia for example we are being persecuted. in Germany, in 1940's they too were put in camps. I am glad you are so passionate about J. Smith. but I follow God not man. The JW live by the bible. follow christ expamples. Of course other faiths will go thru problems. if one faith was picked on only it would look obvious to the world who was the truth.
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) The Devil knew that Smith's prayer was a huge threat to his evil plans, so he tried to snuff out Smith's life before it could pose a threat. The Devil ONLY tried to kill someone personally at that time. He never did it before, and he's never done it since. But something like that is the most obvious action for someone as twisted as the Devil to take to try to snuff out a threat that immense.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@Kingofcolor maybe the history of the JW's and propheceis in the bible you should look at. in the early 1900's JWs were inprisoned for speaking the truth. they were told they were there for life. they were in for 3.5 yrs; ( a prophecy) The devil up to this day tries to shut down our teaching, without success. The devil is always out there. not just on smith. he is working harder and harder since he knows his time is short. just take care ok. like I said< i follow God and his word not a mans
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Many LDS men were KILLED! The Saints were driven from their homes again and again, INCLUDING the city they established themselves (Nauvoo)! We are still persecuted to this day, just not by mobs anymore. Whenever someone leaves the LDS Church, they "can't leave it alone," to quote a General Authority. Every apostate on Youtube has at least one video bashing the Church and telling lies about it.
The JWs believe in a "chosen few", so they can't be true.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) God loves all His children INFINITELY, so why would He handpick a small sliver of them to be saved regardless of how bad they are and sentence the rest to eternal purgatory? That doesn't sound very much like the loving Father I know. It sounds like some socialist garbage to me. Where's the merit? Where's the learning? The spiritual growth? Where's the fairness in that? God is perfect, so He must be perfectly FAIR.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@Kingofcolor The bible tells us of two folds. little flock and great crowd. also yes God does love us all. that is also why the bible tells is he is patient to bringing his judgement for he does not wish anyone to be destroyed but for everyone to repent. secondly we know that in Noahs day there must of been good ppl but they were destroyed, why? because they did not listen to divine intervention from God. will happen again. it is not a bad thing for how long do the righteous have to wait
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers Still no response? It's been more than a week! I'm itching to hear your interpretation of the scripture I used!
(I may have sounded rude, but I didn't try to be. I was simply speaking my mind.)
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@Kingofcolor cont. it is not us who believe a certain way it is what the bible teaches. but we all have free will to choose whether we listen or not. It is completely fair. He is giving everyone a chance to listen to him. obey him. for he has every right to be worshiped. but the bible tells us, there is a judgement day for ones who choose there direction. you see, it is not a JW thing, it is a Bible teaching. So when you get upset about it, you are upset with God not us.
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers First, God promised to NEVER devastate the world again. Second, those are the 144,000 ELDERS OF THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL! There are 12000 from each tribe who are SEALED, not saved. I have my KJV right here in front of me, and it uses the word "sealed" each time.
Second, read Rev 7:9, it destroys your "little flock" argument. Better yet, I'll provide it myself in my next comment.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Rev. 7:9-17: 9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which NO MAN COULD NUMBER, OF ALL NATIONS, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
10 "And cried in a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 11 "And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"
12 "Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."
13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, and MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB."
15 "Therefore, are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
16 "They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) 17 "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
Not once is the word "flock" used. Nor is the word "saved" used. Furthermore, this doesn't even refer to the end of the world, since the Second Coming doesn't even happen until Chapter 14. All those in white robes are those who suffered for Christ's sake.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
@shihtzufizzers (cont.) Those in white are WITHOUT NUMBER, so there IS no "little flock" or "great crowd". Only the Elders and everyone else who suffered for God's work. Every time someone has to defend God's truth and suffer because of it, if they remain pure or make themselves pure, they are added to the group who will see God BEFORE the Second Coming, NOT just at it.
Kingofcolor 5 months ago
cont. Finally, grab yourself a copy of the JST Bible. Read that scripture from there. King James didn't get everything right, either. He didn't have his people translate directly from the original Hebrew and Greek, like Joseph Smith did.
Smith loved to read the HEBREW AND GREEK Bible. The differences between the original and even the KJV are staggering. Entire passages are reversed from the original, INCLUDING your precious Gal 1:8. The original states quite the opposite.
Kingofcolor 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor first you say you hold the KJV sacred. now you say another translation. as a matter of fact it is a translation of Joe Smith Translation. of course his is the only translation around that says that Gal 1:8 is different for it it did not, he would be able to admit his false teachings. He may have read Heb. and greek trans. but does not understand them. and he was an adulter and use God to get away with his immoral acts. Interleaner bible has greek,heb and eng. check it out.
shihtzufizzers 5 months ago
You're spouting lies and rumors that were created by former members of the Church simply to make people like you hate us. It's NOT God's will to "sleep around". We believe the union between husband and wife to be so sacred that abstinence should be practiced until marriage, and everyone only has one partner each after marriage: their spouse. The doctrine of plural marriage has been suspended, since we no longer need it. It was there for survival purposes ONLY.
Kingofcolor 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor what lies? I am sorry if you misunderstood. what I was saying is this. Here is a man, Smith, who could not stay faithful to his wife. then tells his wife it is Gods will his "actions". she must of been pretty dumb. then a book shows up. the bible states that adultry is a big no no. so why would God use a immoral man? who is also a liar. (I've looked at his history)I know today the mormons no longer practice this, except the ones that break off the LDS and start ther own sects.
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor Survival? plenty of ppl were around in the 1800's. I understand it back in the bible beginings. yes but not in the 1800's. I am not saying any lies about the Mormons. I have friends who are mormons. I am just pointing out facts. I personally do no believe that God can not protect his word. and God would not use an cheater in marrage to spead his purpose. I have said too. history proves alot. before clergy in the early centries changed docrines, truth was there. just research it
shihtzufizzers 6 months ago
@Kingofcolor ezekiels teaching has nothing to do with an additional religious book and nore does the the bible support this. the stick pertains to tribes. there were 10. they broke up (ephraim) then the other tribe levites. the 2 sticks were brought in to one are not books but kingdomes as indicated by ezekiel in eze 37:16. the tribes broke up and became one again. YOU see the bible nowhere says there are religious books but eze. tells us of north & south kingdoms reunited, not books
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers the word "stick" in hebrew, in this case is actually better said "scroll." IE religious text. While the prophecy certainly does also refer to the tribes, it is a prophecy of the Book of Mormon.
Concerning the gathering, what does your church believeregarding the gathering of the 12 tribes?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 this goes against many other scriptures. stick in hebrew is not scroll. stick can be a rod, or something used to beat. Or guide us. like the bible says not to spare the rod. it does not mean to beat children it means to guide like a sheppard used there rods to guide there sheep. Still the book of mormon does go against scriptures when taking all in and not just certain ones. Acts, Galatains, ect.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers stick doesn't translate as scroll. Sorry if I made it sound that way. Stick is referring to the scrolls that they used as scriptures at the time.
How does the BoM go against these books?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 A Mormon friend told me that if the BoM does not say or agree with what the bible says, the BoM takes priority. That should not be the case. Do you have an Interlinear Bible? it is a bible with the original writings in hebrew and greek and translated into english. If you do, look at it. with just a few grammer differences. It says the same as today. Yes ppl have versions of the bible that do not say what the original writings but one bible does, it is the New World Translation
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers The BoM does take priority because it hasn't suffered the mistranslations and the omissions of the bible. We learn through the BoM and modern revelation that the bible is missing main plain and precious truths. This is evident by several facts 1) the bible mentions several other books that are not in the bible, 2) there are epistles, events and teachings referred to in the bible that do not appear, cont
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers cont 3) all Christian religions use the bible yet non have completely synonymous teachings. If the bible were all that were necessary, there would be no confusions about doctrines (especially key doctrines like baptism, resurrection, nature of God, etc.)
When I refer to different versions, I am not specifically talking about the New World Translation. In english alone there are several major translations with the King James version being the most widely used. cont.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers cont. while these may not vary substantially, there is enough difference to make it an issue. I do have an interlinear and am an amateur (very amateur lol) student of ancient Hebrew. In only a few months time, I have witnessed several subtle changes in Hebrew that could easily be understood in a differ net manner.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 This bible went back to the original writings. The standard bible, which was "versioned" about 10 ish yrs ago, i think, is a bad version, yet can be explained. mainly born again and baptist use this bible. The BOM, is a book given to a Man. by an angel, or so called. Bible gives us info not to fall for this. But IF you are happy in your faith, then great, just don't stop learning, research info and always ask why. I did and found the truth. Wish you the best steve.:)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers The bible was also given to MAN. In fact, it was given to many men. It is simply a compilation of several old writings that a council of MEN found significant enough to include as canon. It has been reformed, edited, added to, taken from and changed hundreds of times over the years. This is why God revealed the BoM, much in the same manner as the bible. The two work hand in hand. If you read the BoM, you would see what I am talking about.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I love researching and make a habit of studying sacred texts and ideas of all faiths. I find them reinforcing. One LDS believe is that GOd has revealed His gospel since Adam through dispensations and that those teachings have been dissipated throughout time and traces of them can be found all over. I see this phenomenon all the time. That is why I love studying other faiths and LOVE the gospel.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers LDS people are encouraged to learn. We are commanded to study all kinds of books and ideas. Our leaders often quote no-scriptural sources, everything from Shakespeare to Frost. We understand that all knowledge is good and comes from God. Brigham Young, the second president of the church, is oft quoted as telling the saints to "not believe (his) words, but to pray about them (themselves)." no doctrine should ever be accepted without asking why and seeking confirmation.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Anyone, of any faith, who accepts anything without true study, analysis, prayer and confirmation from the Holy Ghost is walking blindly. We cannot be saved in ignorance.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 the tribes is an in depth subject. I am assuming you are talking about josephs sons. and the promise land. it is also in 'Rev. but in REv it is symbolic because some the the tribes mentioned there were not named in the isrealite tribes. 12X12 is 144,000 which is the # of the little flock (there is a great crowd) that will serve as priest and priesess in heaven w/ jesus in his 1000 yr rule. But this is way advanced info for YT. this is a whole other subject and big at that
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I'm impressed that you seem to have a good understanding of the gathering of the tribes. I agree that it is way to advanced for YT> MY question is, do you believe that a literal gathering is happening?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 you mean the gathering of the 144,000? if so yes, the first century christians are a big chunk of them. you can tell this by Pauls writings. Once Jesus took the thrown in heaven in 1914, kicked Satan out of the heavens and down to the earth (in REv) the gathering began. REv. tells us they will rule as priest and priestess in heaven with Christ. Again this is deep info.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers What do you mean 1914? Where is this written?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 you see, God created adam and eve to live forever in paradise on earth. Satan messed that up. but God does not change, as the bible says. The bible does say the earth will last for ever and we will reside upon it. The earth and Gods purpose will go back to it original design. The great crowd will live on earth. God did not create us to be angels, he made them way before man, and this is a man made doctrine, Again, this is alot of info. If u like we can talk through messages
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Messages would be great. One must remember the first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve. That was to multiply and replenish the Earth. IE have children. They however, had no knowledge of how to do that nor did they understand good vs evil. Had they stayed in Eden, we would not be born and they would not progress.
The Earth will be restored to the glory of Eden and even surpass it. It will be inherited by the meek.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 God did say to populate the earth. yes, who says they did not know how to have sex before they sinned? of course they would. God created them with that instinct. it is not a sin to have intercourse with your mate. What is a sin is fornication, lusting over another mans wife, adultry. Man has made sex dirty, the bible guides us to this area and a happy marriage. If they never sinned in there perfect state, we would be perfect today. but they did not. WE are not perfect (cont)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers the inference that they did not not know how is in Gen. 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;"
LDS people believe that they actually ate a fruit that brought them out of their immortal state and into a fallen state.
I agree that man has made sex dirty. It is a beautiful thing and a most sacred thing.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 Once they sinned they became embarrased of their nakedness. Gen 3:16 says That God would INCREASE labor pains. showing that they must of known about sex and pregnancy. But now to their introduction to imperfection, now it would become painful. The fruit did bring them out of the Glory of God, yet it was There Actions that did it even more, their lack of love for there heavenly father. Satans' lie won! We too believe this is true
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 because our orginal parents were not perfect. just like if a bread pan is dented, each loaf comes out with a dent. we are dented alot! They knew what was good, they had the ability to speak to God in a perfect state. They choose to be deceived, that is why the devil said "is it not so" he put doubt in there head. he is tricky, but as for marital sex. God created the first married couple to have children. and I am sure just as you know how to have sex, they did to. why not?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers THey were perfect in a sense, but did not know the difference between good and evil. We see this in Gen. 2:17 and 3:5. They knew that they should not partake of the fruit, but didn't understand good and evil. This was learned after they partook of the fruit. Satan is tricky indeed.
We can also infer that they didn't have children because children are never mentioned until after they left.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 yes I agree, if they would of had children before sinning, that would of been a perfect child. an "undented" pan per say. to bad huh?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers If they had, that child would have been without knowledge of good and evil. Just like them.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 But they did know the difference between right and wrong. Eve selfishly want to "be like God" and determine what the Good and Bad instead of abiding on God judgement on this matter. So in a sense she knew the difference. She was disobeying Gods law. bad=evil . then Adam had to join her. WHy? because he did not trust God he knew it was "bad" or evil, disobeying God but he may have not wanted to loose his wife. He did not trust God to fix it. obey-good see?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I view it more like a young child who steals a candy bar without the knowledge of it being wrong or right. They just want candy, there is no ethical or moral thought process. We read that Adam and Eve "transgressed" the law. The difference in transgression is 1) there is no malice toward God, 2) there is not an understanding of the sin.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Someone who has never heard of Christ and only knows the religion that they grew up with is still breaking God's commandments, but they don't know it. Thus, still wrong, but not sin. Similar to Adam and Eve.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 Adam and eve were perfect. they knew exactly what they were doing. they choose there path and sinned. No where in the bible does it tell us they did not know how to have sex before taken out of Eden. BUt you are right. the earth will become a paradise, Isa, tells us about it. it will be an abundance of peace. sounds wonderful compared to today huh?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I can't wait. A new heaven and a new Earth. Pretty awesome stuff huh?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 Yea me too. REV 21;3,4 stays it all.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers This passage refers to that particular book. Remember that Galatians was a letter to the Galatians, a people who were members of the church in ancient times. In fact, nearly all of the NT books (minus the gospels) were epistles or letters written to that particular book.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 This would be convenient for you if this was true, but remember that in 2 tim 3:15 , 16 says that ALL scriptures are inspired by God and are for are teaching, reproving, setting thing straight ect. So The books do not pertain to only those ppl back then ,, God inspired ppl to write them for us today. as mentioned in the bible. For even the writers did not know what they are writing, why? because some thing were not meant for them to know, it was for us today. See?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers all scripture is inspired. This does not meant that all scripture is directed to everyone at everytime. Take, for example the Old Testament. If we applied the idea that the words cannot be changed to the Old Testament, then we would still be doing sacrifices and living the law of Moses. That is one very broad example. I can get more specific if you'd like.
I have no doubt that the bible was written under inspiration of us today. However, it is incomplete and has been tarnished
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 no need to get more specific. AS for the OT , it tells us why we do not sacrifice animals blood anymore, Jesus (the lamb) was the final sacrifice for our sins, so that we MAY have everlasting life. YEt Jesus does speak of the mosaic law and what is still kept such as the 10 commandments.As for being tampered with, that has never been proved. In the interlinear bible which is the original writings it says same thing as today except for a few grammer understandings (cont)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 and there are many findings today to prove it factual and info in the bible verifies this if studied intently. One should also understand the creator of the universe could protect a book of his own inspirations. So once studied and understood, you would see that the scripture in Gal. has to do with us today not just a short period of time. Why would he add to his word once saying it will not be done. Once the bible was written, he was done.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers The bible was written once by many, compiled by many more, translated and trnascribed by even more, kept out of the hands of even more and now hos several versions. Which version of the bible is the true one?
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 the bible has not been tampered with but there are many versions, as LDS use the KJ version in the book of moromons would this not mean the book itself is tampered if you go by what you are saying? as for prophets how can you say your "president is a prophet when no other prophets such as moses, micah,ect are mentioned in the bible but not yours is foretold. Isa 40;8 READ IT. therefore REv 22:19 is not in contriciton for many have tried and failed in altering Gods word.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Joseph Smith AND the BoM WERE predicted in the Bible:
Isa 29:11-12: "And the vision of all is become unto you as the WORDS OF A BOOK THAT IS SEALED which men deliver unto one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
Read it, then come back. It's there. I have more, but I don't have space here.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor first prophets have names in the bible, Joe Smith not in it. 2. the script says visions of everything become LIKE books, not A BOOK. When a something is sealed,it was not for there understanding back then, It was meant for our time now. and there is a script that says that too. DAniel, I believe asked what he was seeing in visions, and he was told not for his time to know. (DAn 12:9) says sealed up, a vision, see?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor after the bible was written, God did not need prophets to prophesy anymore, did not need to preform miracles, why would he, his inpspired word was done. The bible does give us what to expect in the future, what to look for toward the end of times. BUT never says anything about upcoming prophets. Did you read Isa 40 :8? You cant ignore some scriptures, take some and with misunderstanding because you choose to disregard others.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor when you take ALL scriptures to the subject, you would see that no real book coming, bible says it would not happen, visions are sealed because it was not for those prophets to know. not another book per other bible writings. just like ezeikel and the stick of judah, ephraim, it was kingdoms as mentioned before. So please don;t ignore scriptures to see the real truth. I think it is wonderful you read the bible. I am so glad we can converse back and forth with kindness. thank you
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 also the bible says God is unpartial but was there not a time when blacks were not allowed to be mormons?Acts 10:34,35 How can this be altered? for example of ones trying to change teachings is trinitarins and John !:!. they have failed miserably here. you see anyone changing will fail. So with this info (and I have more) Book of mormons fits Gal 1:8 (and the quran
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Uh... No. Blacks were NOT banned from the Church. God simply told us the "curse of Cain" hadn't been fulfilled yet. Cain's descendants were banned from having the power of the Priesthood "for a time," and that "time" hadn't expired yet. I don't know why God decided to make it take so long, but He did. I have a few black Mormon friends myself, and they can't even answer that question. However, they believe it was fair since God eventually lifted it.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor what? even NOah had colored family members that God saved! Curse of Cain. even if this is true, who said it was black ppl? Again, scriptures taken out of context. God created us all as his earthly children. WE are all cursed with death because of adam and eve. CAin's mark or curse had to do w/ his banishment, ( I will research this for more detalils)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@Kingofcolor after looking it up yes Cain curse was of his banashment. His cultivating of the land would be harder than rest of his family (GEn 4: 10-15 shows this) which this curse was allready on the earth, just cains would be worse. No where does it say this curse or sign would be on Cains person in anyway. so it could not reflect on his offspring or color of any skin.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers This is where I have to disagree. The leaders of the LDS Church have done the Genealogy work for every President of the United States, and for several other current world leaders. Obama, and every other Black leader can trace their ancestry back to Cain (our Church is VERY good at this). Coincidence? I think not.
Kingofcolor 1 year ago
@stevejames1012 there are original writing and ppl who have looked into this to show otherwise, "The bible from the begining" a book, says no other ancient book is so well attested as the bible, when compared to other writings such as plato, ect. this really doesnt matter but it does help stand by Isa 40:8, Gal 1:8. Sir Frederic Kenon, scholar, states that from examination of the papyri (old writings)it is confirmed the essential soundness of the existing text . Again bible stands true
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers That makes no sense, people also say that it is completely false. You can't rely on the opinions of men to confirm your assumptions of what is true. That is why we have the Holy Ghost to tell us what is and what is not true.
As I said before, the bible is great and true. It has just been tampered with. The proof of this lies in the bible itself.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers You can't rely on what men, no matter who they are when it comes what you believe. There are also well respected scholars who claim that the bible is completely false. We have been given the Spirit so that He can tell us what is true. Not some scholar.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers If you would like a more detailed example of this fallacy, see the scripture in Rev which states "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." REv. 22:19
If this were reffering to the whole bible then we would not have the books of John, Johns 1-3 and several others.
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers If we did the same with the similar scripture in Leviticus that tells not to add or take away, then we would have only the first three books.
Fact is, the bible was written by God through prophets, then tainted by man. you ask why wouldn't God prepare a way? I answer, He did, it's caled the Book of Mormon and it testifies hand in hand with the bible
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Furthermore, there are several books mentioned in the bible that are not in the bible. If the bible were complete, this would not be the case
stevejames1012 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers
John prophesied of an angel flying in the midst of heaven bringing the everlasting gospel to the inhabitants of the earth in the last days.Right ther in revelations.:)
jferristube 6 months ago
Respond to this video... that angel is Moroni.
jferristube 6 months ago
the bible has been changed too many times, + the devil had & is living between sociy 4 times in terms of bible+ it is unfair and unlogic that profets and teachings are gone and still teaching todays world by society dividers.We need a true prophet and true revelations on a new world of government and tecnology, because the final seventh prophesy is about to come.
magoderockadan 1 year ago
@magoderockadan there is a bible called the interleanier bible that has the original writing compared to today. and with just a few minor grammer errors, it says the same thing. Dont you believe the creator of the universe can protect a book? IF any other book was to have 40 or so aurthors, and took over 1600yrs to write it would not have the same theme and harmounious thought. even if 2 writers cant stay on same theme. So of course it is protected. God will not allow satan to change his word