...." again the distilation isn't to purify the acetic acid."... "... it's to remove the sodium sulfide and other things that make it yellow"... just a question but isnt the act of removing unwanted impurity's the exact same thing as to purify?
I wrote this when I was getting started with chem... I meant that the distillation isn't to concentrate it, because it forms an azeotrope. It is to purify it...
@ScienceHideout ok, follow up quretion: what is the azeotrope % of acetic acid? meaning what % would I get if I tried to distill over a vinegar solution? I seemed to me like you used the bicarbonate rxn to get the acetate in a water free salt instead of 5% solution, then reprotonated it by making NaHSO4 -> Na2SO4. this leaves a neutral salt that is safe. why did you add water instead of dry distilation of NaHSO4 and CH3COONa? you could have distilled off all, leaving salt
Just want to tell you that water and acetic acid has no azeotrope, you can easily boil down the clear/purified vinegars from the grocery store. Most stores have clear 35% acetic acid.
@iasedu it actually does have an azeotrope and chem students have all kinds of posts about using colums to entrain the undesired azeotrope component. just go to the google or bing search window and type in acetic acid azeotrope, and you will see how well talked about it is. not sure what the azeotrope max acetic composition is, but ya can't get pure by simple distilation or boiling off
@demnlordd666 There's no azeotrope, but a pinch point where distillation just barely decreases acetic acid concentration which acts almost like an azeotrope in practice.
@iasedu ok so it is close enough that people treat it like one but technically it is't pronounced enough to qualify? ok, well based on your wording "barely decreased acetic acid concentration" it seem you are saying that you can distill acetic acid to a nearly pure state. just how close to glacial acetic acid are you suggesting here? cause I don't see any one trying a simple distilation to get pure acid or even close, correct me if I'm wrong but they were protonating acetic salts and distilling
@iasedu lucky bastard!!, I havn't had one in years. nothing starts off your day right like waking up from a horrible horrible dream. now how about responding to my interpetation of your statement? you said it barely decreased concentration. so what exactly are you saying? have you tried the distillation of vinegar? do you know it can be done simply? or did you just see some one say that on youtube? also if it's so simple why is it that people are synthing glacial from salts?
Is bad practice to use flame direct or with an asbestos screen to distill, use a water or oil bath or a mantle. And you shouldnt distill from a closed system, it can explode.
I don't think that the contents of the test tube is glacial acetic acid . . . .that stuff freezes at 16.7 degress celsius, so, if your water bath was colder than that or the lab air was colder, you would have a solid . . . .
Water and vinegar are azeotropes; they boil together. Whe I made this movie I didn't have a fractioning column to distill them. A fractionating column is something you put between the condenser and the flask, to get them boiling at different times. I will eventually remale this movie.
am I missing something or are you claiming to have distilled acetic acid out of an aqueous mixture and the acetic acid distilled before the water? I apologize if I have missed something but it seems kind of counterintuitive. I've always used a very long column when distilling mixtures of acetic acid and water.I"d like to point out to cheerdiver that you didn't use open flame on glass you separated them with an asbestos mesh, the flame was not in contact with the glass
Like I said, acetic acid and water are azeotropes, they will NOT distill right. Therefore, the distilling process is just to get rid of some by-products including SOME of the water and what makes the stuff yellow. Distillation alone will not yeild pure acid, unless you have a column. In a later video, we will do fractional distillation of CH3COOH, making GLACIAL acedic acid part III
@ScienceHideout im sorry i have to call bull shit on this. you ADDED water to the sodium bisulfate and sodium acetate mix to form acetic acid. It doesn't form an azeotrope with water. that's why you can get GLACIAL acetic acid, because when distilled it is possible to get nearly 95-99 percent acetic. azeotropes wouldn't allow for this to happen. for example nitric acid cannot be distilled farther than 70 percent.
WTF, an open flame to glass. Dud U should avoid doing that, bad practice.
Go to the grocery store, buy a gal of WHITE VINEGAR. By FDA std it will be 5% acetic acid. Chill it SLOWLY, and by that I mean glacial acetic (100%) will crystallize/freeze @ low room temp. When the 1st /20th solidifies, decant off the water. Use a molecular sieve to remove remaining water.
@cheerdiver Actually, if you place vinegar in a freezer (-8 deg C) it will freeze the water and the acetic acid will remain liquid. It takes many repeats using this method to get the concentration very high.
If you truly have glacial acetic acid, it is easy to confirm. Just put it in the refrigerator for a little bit and it should crystallize at around 50*F
Remember, non-glacial acetic acid can freeze aswell. As long as it is close to glacial, it can.
I do know that this is close to, if not, glacial, because of a few experiments. You can always mess around with the ratios to make it purer. Let me know your results!
The point where a liquid turns solid is a freezing point. Crystallization occurs when a liquid turns solid with an interesting structure. In our case, they are almost interchangeable.
@JavAnarkoMet probably, it may be only be 6% though, but even then it would probably be a lot easier to buy this online, however it has to be shipped by truck, its not allowed on plains
@ScienceHideout You can buy condensers pretty cheap on ebay if you are in the USA. Or you can build them out of metal tubing (coil works ok) as well. Just make sure that what you plan to distil wont react with the metal.
...." again the distilation isn't to purify the acetic acid."... "... it's to remove the sodium sulfide and other things that make it yellow"... just a question but isnt the act of removing unwanted impurity's the exact same thing as to purify?
demnlordd666 1 month ago
@demnlordd666
I wrote this when I was getting started with chem... I meant that the distillation isn't to concentrate it, because it forms an azeotrope. It is to purify it...
ScienceHideout 1 month ago
@ScienceHideout ok, follow up quretion: what is the azeotrope % of acetic acid? meaning what % would I get if I tried to distill over a vinegar solution? I seemed to me like you used the bicarbonate rxn to get the acetate in a water free salt instead of 5% solution, then reprotonated it by making NaHSO4 -> Na2SO4. this leaves a neutral salt that is safe. why did you add water instead of dry distilation of NaHSO4 and CH3COONa? you could have distilled off all, leaving salt
demnlordd666 1 month ago
Just want to tell you that water and acetic acid has no azeotrope, you can easily boil down the clear/purified vinegars from the grocery store. Most stores have clear 35% acetic acid.
iasedu 2 months ago
@iasedu it actually does have an azeotrope and chem students have all kinds of posts about using colums to entrain the undesired azeotrope component. just go to the google or bing search window and type in acetic acid azeotrope, and you will see how well talked about it is. not sure what the azeotrope max acetic composition is, but ya can't get pure by simple distilation or boiling off
demnlordd666 1 month ago
@demnlordd666 There's no azeotrope, but a pinch point where distillation just barely decreases acetic acid concentration which acts almost like an azeotrope in practice.
iasedu 1 month ago
@iasedu ok so it is close enough that people treat it like one but technically it is't pronounced enough to qualify? ok, well based on your wording "barely decreased acetic acid concentration" it seem you are saying that you can distill acetic acid to a nearly pure state. just how close to glacial acetic acid are you suggesting here? cause I don't see any one trying a simple distilation to get pure acid or even close, correct me if I'm wrong but they were protonating acetic salts and distilling
demnlordd666 1 month ago
@demnlordd666 I had a nightmare today, can't remember ever having one before. I didn't like the nightmare.
iasedu 1 month ago
@iasedu lucky bastard!!, I havn't had one in years. nothing starts off your day right like waking up from a horrible horrible dream. now how about responding to my interpetation of your statement? you said it barely decreased concentration. so what exactly are you saying? have you tried the distillation of vinegar? do you know it can be done simply? or did you just see some one say that on youtube? also if it's so simple why is it that people are synthing glacial from salts?
demnlordd666 1 month ago
Is bad practice to use flame direct or with an asbestos screen to distill, use a water or oil bath or a mantle. And you shouldnt distill from a closed system, it can explode.
g3ov4n12 7 months ago
I don't think that the contents of the test tube is glacial acetic acid . . . .that stuff freezes at 16.7 degress celsius, so, if your water bath was colder than that or the lab air was colder, you would have a solid . . . .
98JMA 1 year ago
Just curious, why don't you just distill the vinegar instead of convert it to the acetate and back?
zhmapper 1 year ago
@zhmapper
Water and vinegar are azeotropes; they boil together. Whe I made this movie I didn't have a fractioning column to distill them. A fractionating column is something you put between the condenser and the flask, to get them boiling at different times. I will eventually remale this movie.
ScienceHideout 1 year ago
am I missing something or are you claiming to have distilled acetic acid out of an aqueous mixture and the acetic acid distilled before the water? I apologize if I have missed something but it seems kind of counterintuitive. I've always used a very long column when distilling mixtures of acetic acid and water.I"d like to point out to cheerdiver that you didn't use open flame on glass you separated them with an asbestos mesh, the flame was not in contact with the glass
bremac1000 1 year ago
@bremac1000
Like I said, acetic acid and water are azeotropes, they will NOT distill right. Therefore, the distilling process is just to get rid of some by-products including SOME of the water and what makes the stuff yellow. Distillation alone will not yeild pure acid, unless you have a column. In a later video, we will do fractional distillation of CH3COOH, making GLACIAL acedic acid part III
ScienceHideout 1 year ago
@ScienceHideout im sorry i have to call bull shit on this. you ADDED water to the sodium bisulfate and sodium acetate mix to form acetic acid. It doesn't form an azeotrope with water. that's why you can get GLACIAL acetic acid, because when distilled it is possible to get nearly 95-99 percent acetic. azeotropes wouldn't allow for this to happen. for example nitric acid cannot be distilled farther than 70 percent.
TheChemlife 10 months ago
@TheChemlife
Yeah, I've come far this year. When I started this channel I hardly knew what an azeotrope was. Now I am using fractionating columns to vercome them.
ScienceHideout 10 months ago
WTF, an open flame to glass. Dud U should avoid doing that, bad practice.
Go to the grocery store, buy a gal of WHITE VINEGAR. By FDA std it will be 5% acetic acid. Chill it SLOWLY, and by that I mean glacial acetic (100%) will crystallize/freeze @ low room temp. When the 1st /20th solidifies, decant off the water. Use a molecular sieve to remove remaining water.
cheerdiver 1 year ago
@cheerdiver Actually, if you place vinegar in a freezer (-8 deg C) it will freeze the water and the acetic acid will remain liquid. It takes many repeats using this method to get the concentration very high.
nucleochemist 1 year ago
If you truly have glacial acetic acid, it is easy to confirm. Just put it in the refrigerator for a little bit and it should crystallize at around 50*F
ytmachx 1 year ago
@ytmachx
Remember, non-glacial acetic acid can freeze aswell. As long as it is close to glacial, it can.
I do know that this is close to, if not, glacial, because of a few experiments. You can always mess around with the ratios to make it purer. Let me know your results!
ScienceHideout 1 year ago
@ScienceHideout I didn't say "Freeze". I said crystallize. There is a difference.
ytmachx 1 year ago
@ytmachx
The point where a liquid turns solid is a freezing point. Crystallization occurs when a liquid turns solid with an interesting structure. In our case, they are almost interchangeable.
ScienceHideout 1 year ago
doesnt do the drugstores sell acetic acid already?
JavAnarkoMet 1 year ago
@JavAnarkoMet probably, it may be only be 6% though, but even then it would probably be a lot easier to buy this online, however it has to be shipped by truck, its not allowed on plains
PsalmsOfPlanets072 1 year ago
@PsalmsOfPlanets072
no, i asked them is almost pure, maybe i should buy some and evaluate it and share resuls *working on it*
JavAnarkoMet 1 year ago
did you use a condenser or just a glass tube
123samic 1 year ago
@123samic
I just used glass tubes.
ScienceHideout 1 year ago
@ScienceHideout You can buy condensers pretty cheap on ebay if you are in the USA. Or you can build them out of metal tubing (coil works ok) as well. Just make sure that what you plan to distil wont react with the metal.
nucleochemist 1 year ago