BRIAN HARATSIS SHOULD BE PUT IN PRISON FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. By advoctating more people, he is advocating the destruction of Australian society, envrironment and the health of our people.
@TimeForParadigmShift I suspect people can be happy without money. So yes we can indeed be happy without growth. But if by happy you mean educated, fed, watered, good infrastructure and comfortable lifestyles, then without economic growth we will see these things leaving us by 2030. Read the Intergenerational report 2010, some of the graphs there are pretty foreboding, but they are government approved fact.
I can assure you that not only do I profit from growth, so do All Australians. Even you.
@Dec4955 So you think we cant be fed, watered and educated, with a good lifestyle without growth? Well, I suspect you just want a bigger SUV or plasma tv than your asshole neighbour, and this is something you just dont want to give up to let the planet have a little breathing space.
Oh, and dont even try and tell me because the Government says something, I should take it as FACT.
@Dec4955 My point exactly. I'm from the field of thought that believes we have two options...to depopulate humanely, via low birth and death rates...or we go to war, and carry out mass genocide against various peoples. There is no third option. A bigger population will equal one of these two options.
And please, this 'ageing' argument! What do you think happens when the next generation gets old. Thats right, under your system, we just recruit more people!
I LOVE IT, BRIAN HARATSIS STARTED the company "MACRO-PLAN" and then put himself in the position of "CHIEF ECONOMIST" and CEO, to sound like he actually is educated. This man is a pathetic individual, hell bent on property development and pushing as many people into Australia as he can. This is so him and his property developer mates can sell more dodgy development. I am doing some digging on this guy and will post more about him soon. Standby.
@TimeForParadigmShift Oh wow you're still here. You musn't be very busy. Your mass extinction theory is not only ridiculous, it is also entirely speculation. Almost akin to saying that the world will end because the mayan calendar says it will.
This is an economic debate, and you are clearly not an economist, or any form of expert. My guess is that you are an English teacher, or under some illusion that you are an authority on this subject - worth noting so to speak.
@TimeForParadigmShift So hey I did a bit of research on Mr. Haratsis. Apparently he was schooled in London by a Nobel Prize winner. Masters in economics from the London School of Economics. almost thirty years of experience in the property and economic consultancy industry. Yep, hes educated. wbu? u haz degree?
Macroplan was started about 23 years ago, and has survived three busts. Mr. Haratsis is more than qualified as a "chief economist", in fact he appears to be over-qualified
Where humans go, nature retreats. We are entering an epoch scientists have begun calling the Anthropocene, a break with the geologic past marked by humanity's long-term alteration of the natural world and its biota. We are inadvertently bringing on the sixth mass extinction not just because our appetites are vast and our technologies powerful, but because we occupy or manipulate most of the land in every continent except Antarctica.
Amy Williams? Am I a loser because I dont give a toss about real estate agents always making a bigger buck or property developers making more money by raping Australia? Here's a new market trend for you to keep upto date with: AUSTRALIANS ARENT BUYING THIS SHIT ANY LONGER. AUSTRALIA MUST STABILISE THE POPULATION AT CURRENT, OR LOWER LEVELS. AUSTRALIA MUST DO THIS NOW! Go promote that message!
OK...So answer me this? Why does Australia need more people? AND When do we stop growing? If you fail to acknowledge there are limits to growth, then you fail to acknowledge that we live on a finite planet, or that we share this planet with other species that also have a right to survive without us plundering them out of existence. Does Haratsis care Australia loses even more species? NO. I am not going to sit by and let Australia get rogered by the business interests of one pathetic individual.
@TimeForParadigmShift Why do we need to grow? Are you seriously asking this? You are opposed to something that you dont actually have the slightest clue the meaning of? isnt that a little stupid?
Still, since you asked: We Need growth to Maintain living standards< end of discussion. We will not maintain our status as a rich nation without growth. Period. We will become increasingly poor. people will suffer. If you want to enjoy aged care, pensions etc then you CANNOT be anti growth. this is fact
@Dec4955 Growth doesnt maintain living standards. And if you think it does, you are very misguided. If you think we can just continue to grow...my question to you is, WHEN DO WE STOP? 40million, 400 million? Never? And if you think there is a point where we have to stop growing, then what happens next? Do living standards fall? You've stated that continuous growth is essential to maintain living standards, but not actually qualified your argument with any rationale.
@TimeForParadigmShift How do you figure I'm misguided? Id put it to you that if you dont know how we got living standards or how we maintain them, then you shouldnt make statements like those you postulate. The answer IS never. Never should growth stop completely. Trendline growth has been the norm for 600 years. What proof do you have that now is the time to stop? The burden of proof is on YOU and you simply arent providing evidence, just waving your arms around like a raving lunatic.
@Dec4955 Give me the name of one economy that has experience sustained growth for 600 years without a cataclysmic crash? No economy can continue to grow infiintely. It seems you have very little idea of the concept of carrying capacity, finite arable land, water, oil resources etc. You are living in a little urban bubble and you need to go and have a look at the rest of the world. If we don't work out a way toreduce the population over time then we will alll live in a world of hardship.
@TimeForParadigmShift In response to your quip about 600 yrs of growth. I can name about 200 countries. Fact is growth is cyclical, you cant just say its all bad because it crashed once, if that were true we would still be living in the dark ages. For 600 yrs the trend has been to growth.
Finite resources? You've been reading malthus, havent you?
By the sounds of it Ive seen a lot more of the world than you, because you cant see any further than what you read on wikipedia. Do some research kid
@TimeForParadigmShift, I would Remind you that not only are you completely mathematically incorrect, uninformed, Malthusian and indeed completely closed-minded, but that you are also unlikely to be correct about your not-so-ominous death prediction.
Perhaps before throwing around words at a person seeking a rational and positive outcome, you should realise that you are the one who looks like a toddler.
@Dec4955 I said nothing of mathematics. I do know that any species whos population continuously grows will eventually have to contract. It is biology, not maths. Its a finite planet, and Australians are rapidly waking up to the fact that we can't sustain any more bodies. Our cities are polluted, our biodiversity is disapearring, our water, air and soil is more degraded than a decade ago. Haratsis should be locked away, and there are a huge number of Australia who think he is public enemy #1.
@TimeForParadigmShift Again you prove how grossly uninformed you are. We are a net exporter of food, we have more than 300% of what we use. Sustainability of our population could be supported for 150 years with almost no technological growth factor, which is a ridiculous assumption. The landmass that we own is so large that we have yet to breach 1% total usage, it is impossible for us to run out of space, even though we have one of the highest densities of protected areas on the PLANET. Fact.
@Dec4955 Have you flown over Australia ever? Go 100km past the east coast and it is SAND! Empty, unarable land...unable to support humans or agriculture. Your figure of Australia being a net exporter of food is a LIE!... Australia is now a net importer of food and grocery products
@TimeForParadigmShift Wow buddy you have no actual ability to say one fact do you? Not only is your research into this topic based on an online news site- which i may say is incorrect as well, you really should read the import export figures for yourself. I dont see what your problem with Mr. Haratsis is, but it is obviously personal, so I suggest you keep it to yourself. And yes, I have toured Australia, in a car. You clearly haven't and clearly know nothing of the environment or sustainability
BRIAN HARATSIS SHOULD BE PUT IN PRISON FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. By advoctating more people, he is advocating the destruction of Australian society, envrironment and the health of our people.
TimeForParadigmShift 3 months ago
So are you saying we can't be happy unless we grow the population?
Please answer me this.
If this is the case, then the system is corrupt at its very core.
Or are you someone who is making money from this PONZI scheme called 'economic growth'. I'd suspect this is the case.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift I suspect people can be happy without money. So yes we can indeed be happy without growth. But if by happy you mean educated, fed, watered, good infrastructure and comfortable lifestyles, then without economic growth we will see these things leaving us by 2030. Read the Intergenerational report 2010, some of the graphs there are pretty foreboding, but they are government approved fact.
I can assure you that not only do I profit from growth, so do All Australians. Even you.
Dec4955 4 months ago
@Dec4955 So you think we cant be fed, watered and educated, with a good lifestyle without growth? Well, I suspect you just want a bigger SUV or plasma tv than your asshole neighbour, and this is something you just dont want to give up to let the planet have a little breathing space.
Oh, and dont even try and tell me because the Government says something, I should take it as FACT.
NO WHERE IN THE WORLD HAS TOO FEW HUMANS.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift If you think there are too many humans, Top yourself.
But more on point; Its not a matter of "think" concerning the future of our well being,
its a matter of mathematical fact.
We neither have nor will have the money to continue to live as we do without growth.
The "have your cake and eat it too" approach you seem to have quite simply ignores the law of gravity, and most of the fundamental rules of reality.
The increasing cost of health and ageing makes it impossible.
Dec4955 4 months ago
@Dec4955 My point exactly. I'm from the field of thought that believes we have two options...to depopulate humanely, via low birth and death rates...or we go to war, and carry out mass genocide against various peoples. There is no third option. A bigger population will equal one of these two options.
And please, this 'ageing' argument! What do you think happens when the next generation gets old. Thats right, under your system, we just recruit more people!
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift Ah, well it appears as though it was an idiotic idea to argue against an idiot.
I have nothing further to say to someone who would consider either of those "solutions" helpful.
You should be shot.
If not shot, at least made a horrific example of.
It saddens me to know people like you exist.
The annoying thing is that it will take you longer to grasp the sheer magnitude of your stupidity than it will take this whole situation to pan out.
At least people will ignore you
Dec4955 4 months ago
I LOVE IT, BRIAN HARATSIS STARTED the company "MACRO-PLAN" and then put himself in the position of "CHIEF ECONOMIST" and CEO, to sound like he actually is educated. This man is a pathetic individual, hell bent on property development and pushing as many people into Australia as he can. This is so him and his property developer mates can sell more dodgy development. I am doing some digging on this guy and will post more about him soon. Standby.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift Oh wow you're still here. You musn't be very busy. Your mass extinction theory is not only ridiculous, it is also entirely speculation. Almost akin to saying that the world will end because the mayan calendar says it will.
This is an economic debate, and you are clearly not an economist, or any form of expert. My guess is that you are an English teacher, or under some illusion that you are an authority on this subject - worth noting so to speak.
You aren't, your wrong. dwi
Dec4955 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift So hey I did a bit of research on Mr. Haratsis. Apparently he was schooled in London by a Nobel Prize winner. Masters in economics from the London School of Economics. almost thirty years of experience in the property and economic consultancy industry. Yep, hes educated. wbu? u haz degree?
Macroplan was started about 23 years ago, and has survived three busts. Mr. Haratsis is more than qualified as a "chief economist", in fact he appears to be over-qualified
Got more attax?
Dec4955 4 months ago
Where humans go, nature retreats. We are entering an epoch scientists have begun calling the Anthropocene, a break with the geologic past marked by humanity's long-term alteration of the natural world and its biota. We are inadvertently bringing on the sixth mass extinction not just because our appetites are vast and our technologies powerful, but because we occupy or manipulate most of the land in every continent except Antarctica.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
YOUTUBE: Kelvin Thomson MP: Population Parliamentary Speech 17/08/2009 ...for a fantastic analysis of the 'population' situation in Australia.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Amy Williams? Am I a loser because I dont give a toss about real estate agents always making a bigger buck or property developers making more money by raping Australia? Here's a new market trend for you to keep upto date with: AUSTRALIANS ARENT BUYING THIS SHIT ANY LONGER. AUSTRALIA MUST STABILISE THE POPULATION AT CURRENT, OR LOWER LEVELS. AUSTRALIA MUST DO THIS NOW! Go promote that message!
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
GO TO THIS LINK FOR A GOOD RUN DOWN OF THE ISSUE IN AUSTRALIA! theage.com.au/business/beware-population-growths-hidden-costs-20090927-g7ro.html
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
OK...So answer me this? Why does Australia need more people? AND When do we stop growing? If you fail to acknowledge there are limits to growth, then you fail to acknowledge that we live on a finite planet, or that we share this planet with other species that also have a right to survive without us plundering them out of existence. Does Haratsis care Australia loses even more species? NO. I am not going to sit by and let Australia get rogered by the business interests of one pathetic individual.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift Why do we need to grow? Are you seriously asking this? You are opposed to something that you dont actually have the slightest clue the meaning of? isnt that a little stupid?
Still, since you asked: We Need growth to Maintain living standards< end of discussion. We will not maintain our status as a rich nation without growth. Period. We will become increasingly poor. people will suffer. If you want to enjoy aged care, pensions etc then you CANNOT be anti growth. this is fact
Dec4955 4 months ago
Comment removed
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@Dec4955 Growth doesnt maintain living standards. And if you think it does, you are very misguided. If you think we can just continue to grow...my question to you is, WHEN DO WE STOP? 40million, 400 million? Never? And if you think there is a point where we have to stop growing, then what happens next? Do living standards fall? You've stated that continuous growth is essential to maintain living standards, but not actually qualified your argument with any rationale.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift How do you figure I'm misguided? Id put it to you that if you dont know how we got living standards or how we maintain them, then you shouldnt make statements like those you postulate. The answer IS never. Never should growth stop completely. Trendline growth has been the norm for 600 years. What proof do you have that now is the time to stop? The burden of proof is on YOU and you simply arent providing evidence, just waving your arms around like a raving lunatic.
Dec4955 4 months ago
@Dec4955 Give me the name of one economy that has experience sustained growth for 600 years without a cataclysmic crash? No economy can continue to grow infiintely. It seems you have very little idea of the concept of carrying capacity, finite arable land, water, oil resources etc. You are living in a little urban bubble and you need to go and have a look at the rest of the world. If we don't work out a way toreduce the population over time then we will alll live in a world of hardship.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift In response to your quip about 600 yrs of growth. I can name about 200 countries. Fact is growth is cyclical, you cant just say its all bad because it crashed once, if that were true we would still be living in the dark ages. For 600 yrs the trend has been to growth.
Finite resources? You've been reading malthus, havent you?
By the sounds of it Ive seen a lot more of the world than you, because you cant see any further than what you read on wikipedia. Do some research kid
Dec4955 4 months ago
HARATSIS! HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME, YOU GREEDY PROPERTY DEVELOPER!
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HARATSIS IS A LYING CUNT!
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
Don't forget Australia, these assholes are Property Developers! They don't give two shits about this nation! Lock them away!
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
Haratsis...Australia's Public enemy #1
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
Brian Haratsis will be dead by 2030, but I'll be living in an overcrowded, polluted Australia. Thanks Brian, you fucking imbecile.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift, I would Remind you that not only are you completely mathematically incorrect, uninformed, Malthusian and indeed completely closed-minded, but that you are also unlikely to be correct about your not-so-ominous death prediction.
Perhaps before throwing around words at a person seeking a rational and positive outcome, you should realise that you are the one who looks like a toddler.
Dec4955 4 months ago
@Dec4955 I said nothing of mathematics. I do know that any species whos population continuously grows will eventually have to contract. It is biology, not maths. Its a finite planet, and Australians are rapidly waking up to the fact that we can't sustain any more bodies. Our cities are polluted, our biodiversity is disapearring, our water, air and soil is more degraded than a decade ago. Haratsis should be locked away, and there are a huge number of Australia who think he is public enemy #1.
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago 2
@TimeForParadigmShift Again you prove how grossly uninformed you are. We are a net exporter of food, we have more than 300% of what we use. Sustainability of our population could be supported for 150 years with almost no technological growth factor, which is a ridiculous assumption. The landmass that we own is so large that we have yet to breach 1% total usage, it is impossible for us to run out of space, even though we have one of the highest densities of protected areas on the PLANET. Fact.
Dec4955 4 months ago
@Dec4955 Have you flown over Australia ever? Go 100km past the east coast and it is SAND! Empty, unarable land...unable to support humans or agriculture. Your figure of Australia being a net exporter of food is a LIE!... Australia is now a net importer of food and grocery products
news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/australia-a-net-importer-of-food-20101027-173kl.html
TimeForParadigmShift 4 months ago
@TimeForParadigmShift Wow buddy you have no actual ability to say one fact do you? Not only is your research into this topic based on an online news site- which i may say is incorrect as well, you really should read the import export figures for yourself. I dont see what your problem with Mr. Haratsis is, but it is obviously personal, so I suggest you keep it to yourself. And yes, I have toured Australia, in a car. You clearly haven't and clearly know nothing of the environment or sustainability
Dec4955 4 months ago