Power of the Market - Immigration

[jrsub3]

And here is the problem w/ the welfare state. Farmers need labor, people need labor, but because of the welfare state dynamic, the government says no.

We have to cut off immigrants from the welfare state. Guaranteed we'll all do better.

[jrsub3]

@jrsub3 Also, I thank Friedman and LibertyPen for this. It's truly a shame that a bad government program has turned us from a society that welcomes immigration and a melting pot of cultures, to one that sees immigrants as nothing but competition for jobs and tax dollar leeches. Neither political party gets it right.

[louiethegreater]

@TeaPartyPhilosophy And when we are as poor as Latin America there won't be a immigration problem then.

[powerzap]

this is the reason qhy imigration have failed in europe

[louiethegreater]

Does coming for jobs, apposed to coming for welfare, justify violation of our laws?Farmers would not have a problem with labor shortages if they paid a living wage. They want cheap illegal immigrant labor, and have total disreguard for the effects their actions has on the rest of the country. Sounds like Friedman, he would have to be for open borders, because that is one of the tenents of free trade.

[unfad1ng]

@louiethegreater

This benefits the mexicans enourmously

[TheMexihcatl]

@louiethegreater There would be no "violation of our laws" if the laws were changed to accomodate the realities of society.

[louiethegreater]

@TheMexihcatl The reality is that we are being invaded by Latin America. What part of illegal don't you understand.

[austenbosten]

Wow it's the hippie farmers that hire the illegals, not greedy corporate farmers...gee why am I not surprised!

[Nintendomanwill]

To prevent social division arising from immigration, it should all be legalised so that they don't fly under the radar and we know the number and wealth of those immigrants. Besides, immigration control is impracticable.

The ordination of the dispersion of the human species by the market should not be curtailed for it is natural market forces organising efficiency, i.e. people seeking profit should be allowed to act on that motive for fairness and efficiency and wealth.

[scottvanska]

Immigration isn't an economic issue. In the absence of a welfare state, the issue would not be: do we allow the free movement of labor (as Friedman deceptively implies)? The issue would be: what type of country do Americans want? Do they want a country with lower academic standards, lower standardized test scores, more corruption, more crime, nepotistic voting patterns, and ethnic/racial fragmentation? Because this would be the sociocultural (i.e. non-economic) impact of "free immigration."

[goddy12786]

I think Friedman would consider public education part of the welfare state he speaks of. Your mentioning of standardized test scores and academic standards, to a degree, justifies Friedman's economic assessment of immigration.

[aweiss]

Well most citizens today were immigrants :D did they possess those tendencies then? probably.

[BelieveIt1051]

That's true. I don't know why your comment was rated down. The issue isn't just about the fact that they suck the welfare systems dry, it's that they bring with them many undesirable traits, such as disease, fealty for their home land not America, and a culture that is radically different from ours. They would not want to assimilate, and they don't today. I don't think Friedman was being deceptive here, but rather he simply did not see the whole picture. We also can't accomodate all immigrants.

[Offatwork]

Freidman wasn't deceptive at all. Quite simply, our welfare system is designed in a way where we need to regulate the amount of immigrants that comes into our country. It has nothing to do with culture, race, or any "undesirable traits" those are all situations that describe a normative statement (a personal opinion, a statement saying how something "should" be), instead of a positive statement (this is how it is); which is what Freidman presents; justice is blind and the free market knows this

[BelieveIt1051]

I agree with you on the economic side of this issue, but on the social side I must disagree. This IS also about culture and mindset. If people immigrate here they must swear loyalty to this country and sever loyalty to the country they came from. Those who don't can never assimilate properly, and unfortunately we have to many of those people flooding into our country. Specifically from Arabic countries as well as Mexico.

[gombie]

i think it's a Economic and cultural issue.

[fab006]

@scottvanska This is old, I know, but consider what you're saying. Ok, so maybe you fear ethnic or racial fragmentation. When you say that therefore immigration should be restricted, though, you are saying that people should not be allowed in because of their ethnicity or race (because otherwise there WOULD be fragmentation, right?)

[scottvanska]

As much as I admire Milton Friedman, this is an issue his economic philosophy isn't equipped to answer. There are realities about people and how they organize their societies that economics cannot account for. Of course most middle-class citizens don't want "free immigration" - that would lower America's standard of living to third-world levels. Even without a welfare state, third-worlders would pour into America. America is a much more attractive place to live than Mexico or Somalia.

[picapauengracado]

Not sure about the middle class (seems like a good deal to have cheap maid services), but sure, immigration -- at least from Mexico whose majority of people are low skilled -- would be painful for low skilled workers in the US for the short term. But gradually, their occupations would be distributed across the board, and they would improve living standards for all, especially from fixed cost production and possibly by enabling some economies of scale.

[TimeWarp66]

Mexican immigrants don't come here to bring America down to Mexico's level, they come to bring themselves up to America's level, in regards to standards of living. The only thing that would bring our standards of living down is if new immigrants become burdensome to tax payers.