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  • Haleolejohn your a stupid parasite" I don't agree at all.. Everyone has some type of coverage in the world! They take care if their people, we let our poor suffer and die, we are suppose to be one of the wealthiest nations in the world! We spend bazoooko dollars in war but can't dish our a reform for guaranteed healthcare. Thus sucks man.

  • @Haleojohn

    Some people includeing myself have no healthcare coverage and are hard workers. I have two jobs that niether offer healthcare coverage or group insurance.. I lift weights so I'm 220lbs of muscle, guess what?? I'm denied coverage or offered a 440.00 a month premium because I'm not 180lbs.. The private sectors are the grime we need to deplete from our system..I love America but hate our pathetic healthcare system.

  • Excellent points however it looks like Obama never intended to get real health care reform. It was all a show.

  • that old guy is a con man. I dont need help from the gov't. My experience is they only give out to the lazy fuks who dont wanna work or improve themselves. they take and I am broke with no healthcare. I dont want their help...I want them out of our business so we can prosper

  • We the people MUST insure that our elected officials do what must be done to guarantee that all people are allowed their unalienable right to life. Life not dictated by a corporation as status quo dictates, everyone raves about their health care til they get dropped, and for what? A fraction of a percentile piled onto their profits. Well my friends, I'm not OK with that, we must have change, big profit interests are trying to kill this reform. I'll be the first to say "We wont get fooled again"

  • @thisoldhate healthcare is not a right. i have not had for years and would rather die than let the gov't have more control. they are the ones destroying this country.

  • The problem with dumbasses like this clown and the Obama administration is that they believe everyone is as crooked as they are. Thats why Obama said that pediatricians will do unnecessary surgery to make more money/ Obama thinks this because this is what he would do if he were a doctor.

  • LMAO!!.. Copy France, England and Canadian health systems because the people are healthier and the system is better quality!! OMG, you can tell these people NEVER had to live under a system like that!! If they had.. they would know better!!

  • Well, according to what I have been reading, it looks like we no longer are looking at healthcare reform and are looking at insurance reform instead. And the insurance companies are pushing this, as they have taken out the government insurance portion of the plan. Insurance companies don't want to compete with a government payer system.

  • The uninsured and infirm should just "march" on Washington! - maybe dying on the way or on the White House steps will help to expose the lies of the Insurance comps and AMA, etc!

  • I went by the hospital the other day and it's just so horrible that thousands are dying outside the hospital because they can't get treated. We need something done about it so fast that we shouldn't even read the bill.

  • Holy shit your such a moron.You deserve what you get.I'm sure your a nice person buy you are seriously nieave.

  • I think Obama should insert his penis in Biden's arse. That's about the only change America can hope for, that's realistic and attainable.

  • Why don't you let AIG stick an AIDS infected penis in your arse -- then you can get denied coverage by health insurance because it was a pre-existing condition, insurance bitch.

  • Charles White, aren't you' the one who hates Jews according to your home page?

    You're in London, if you get AIDS you're covered. So don't sweat it queer wannabe. Experiment. Your health care system will cover your arse.

  • First of all, your powers of deduction astonish me. The comments refering to a hatred of jews are not mine but the opinions, however misguided, of OTHER users.

    Second, your fixation on AIDS amuses me greatly, do you have AIDS/ HIV?

    Third, the chances of me getting AIDS are about the same as you getting a life.

    I'm a happily marred 23 year old, you obviously are not LOL

  • I am a bit older, but am happily married as well so go fuck off. I'm done playing. Your not American so your opinions are irrelevant anyhow. And the point of AIDS is relevant, because if you were American, which you are not, you would not be covered by our fucked up health care system. So I guess we can sum it up thus: stick to the topic at hand instead of saying you want to see our president engage with anal intercourse -- the crass comment that started this stoopid discourse, limey retard

  • I think the days are coming when another Revolution will be needed! For far too long the "american citizens" have allowed the government and big corporations to reduce the quality of life in this country. Obama was elected to bring CHANGE, yet he'd failed to do that!

    If our "government" can't do what it was elected to do, then the people should rise up, and remove them from power! Once this is done, the NEW government will know who the real leader is, and follow orders!

  • I agree with what you said partly. And I believe revolution is around the corner. Maybe not soon or even in 20 years but it will happen. I also predict that within 100 to 200 years America will get split up into 2 or 3 different nations. America is a divided country on fundamental issues like Abortion or God and even science. But I do disagree with you're statement "that Obama was elected to bring change but failed". He has been in office for 7 months. ATleast wait 4 years till you say that.

  • First of all, failed to do that? Excuse me? He's been in office 6 months and is fixing what King Bush took 8 years to destroy before he can being to fix what other presidents took decades to destroy. Who has failed here -- Obama or those before him?

    Second, you don't think taking on corporate health insurance is a REVOLUTION? It's harder than bring down a democratic government, let me tell you.

    Insurance will do ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING to win this. Why are you their bitch?

  • We don't nessarily have to go to war to have a REVOLUTION. Look at California, the voters actually got a senater removed from office, and replaced him. If one state can do that, why can't an entire country of voters remove those politicians refusing to help Obama give us healthcare?

    That's the REVOLUTION I'm talking about. It sends the message that politicions work for us, and if they don't do want WE want, we remove them!

  • Every other president a destroyer, Obama is the only one that is good. Worship big brother because he can read a teleprompter. Your dictator cares about you so much he wanted to pass a bill about your health before anyone could even read it. Man they are so awesome why isn't everyone worshiping Big Brother as much as you.

  • I hope we don't have any kind of revolution. War and my children aren't a mix I would like to see in the same place. I do agree about lobbies though, and while I am not sure what health care reform we will see (or any). I do think it is a bit early to start saying that Obama has failed.

    In addition it is our congress that will have failed on this issue most if it doesn't get done. Which in turn means we (the American people) need to speak up loud and clear.

  • Good points. Are workers really that ideologically brainwashed that they can't understand that the wealthy do not care how many uninsured workers die? They only care about keeping their taxes the lowest in the world. That is why they are spreading all these absurd lies about President Obama's program and preventing single-payer healthcare.

  • The argument that our healthcare isn't the best, because other countries spend less and have people live longer, etc." is a silly argument.

    People in other countries live longer because of many other variables including diet, lifestyle, and demographics.

    Our healthcare reform should be health insurance reform. That, coupled with birth control for people on welfare would solve this problem very quickly, however, nobody is brave enough to say these things out loud.

  • Go quick and get a complete mess; go slow and each piece falls away.

    The US populace still believe they are the best, despite an avalanche of evidence to the contrary.

    Health care reform is being 'Washingtoned" to death.

    Change in the USA is accepted as long as everything stays the same.

    The Democrats can very easily fuck this up. They have a sad track record. Keep it up and you'll lose the midterms; keep it up after that and the Republicans(yuk) will start to look good by comparison.

  • yes lets give more of our healthcare industry to the government so they can make costs go up take out the natural pathetic remedies and make everything over the counter like harper is attempting to do to canada. How about lets not do that and grow our own food and medicine.

  • in regards to the stats on how high our healthcare stats are compared to major nations of the world: other nations of the world dont live on mcdonalds and processed foods! get off the shit people. quit eating garbage and see how fast the health stats rise.

  • If we had universal health care, which concentrates on preventative care -- people would see their doctors more often, and the nutritionally ignorant could be educated about their eating habits -- and yes, HEALTH CARE COSTS WOULD GO WAAAY DOWN.

    So, no sense just sitting back and wishing. Lets get universal single-payer, and start really changing our approach to the problem.

  • OMG this guy that talking is completely lost. People are far from where they want to be. 50% of health care is run by govt now. Why would we want a totalitarian govt takeover of everything. A Classic liberal/conservative was against big govt. What we have today is A Liberal/Neocon  agenda of enslavement. People please use another medium for your news and not Youtube's misinformation and MassMedia's Misinformation. Read history find independent and real news to shape our future. Amazing.

  • The only power strong enough to fight the Super-wealthy Goldman Sachs Wall Street Crime Syndicate that RUNS AMERICA -- is the power of the COLLECTIVE, ORGANIZED, GRASS-ROOTS MOVEMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE -- namely, government.

    Government = we the people.

    If you dont like your representatives -- vote them out. And, for god's sake, find out all the companies Goldman Sachs owns, and dont buy anything from them.

  • correct. But spending your money the way you want would be free market capitalism, we have not had that in centuries because of government and these corporations have become one. "We The people" do not control our government. Corporatism controls government and it has corrupted free market capitalism to what we have now; you get what is given. Then place blame on a word to enslave people into a social commie system where their only form of protest and action against government is to ROIT.wft

  • You are right that we do not have truly free markets. Our markets are skewed in favor of big corporations. And a truly free market would favor small local businesses -- in some industries. So I'm all for that.

    But other industries should be nationalized, just for cost efficiency. These industries are: health care, education, telecommunication, energy, defense and weapons manufacturing.

    For each of these industries, THE PEOPLE own the infrastructure already. We should get the profits too.

  • Your mistake is to believe that what the government controls and owns, the people own. A truly communist/socialist view and totally devoid and ignorant of the facts. Or the truth.

  • If the government owns it -- WE THE PEOPLE OWN IT -- because we the people ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

    The people own the telecommunication lines, and satellites, weapons manufacturing plants, military facilities, television and radio infrastructure, oil drilling rigs, electricity generation plants, and transmission lines. WE OWN IT ALL.

    We just DONT KNOW we own it.

    Because the Super-wealthy Corporations want to keep skimming the profits, and SELLING BACK TO US, WHAT WE ALREADY OWN.

  • "If the government owns it -- WE THE PEOPLE OWN IT -- because we the people ARE THE GOVERNMENT."

    Again, you're living in a socialists fantasy world.

    WAKE UP!!!!!!!

    The alarm is going off.

  • "socialist" whatever, dude.

    Hang on to your powerlessness and inaction.

    If our elected servants voted, and the president signed it, that Exxon-Mobil could not rake BILLIONS off the top of our GOVERNMENT'S effort to provide oil and electricity to OUR CITIZENS -- IT WOULD IMMEDIATELY STOP.

    WE THE PEOPLE have the power to CUT THE CORPORATE WALL STREET CRIME SYNDICATE OUT OF THE GAME.

    All we the people have to do is ELECT THE RIGHT PEOPLE. (See Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders.)

  • That's funny.

    It's our government that gives Exxon-Mobil the no bid contract and mining rights so it can make the multi billion dollar profits it enjoys today. The fact is that it's the very government that you want to control big corps that gives them the monopolies. And you play into the very hands of big corporations by allowing government the power to regulate the very corporations that get all the benefits.

    So who's ignorant?

  • Just like I said. We have to elect the right people. BUT WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT.

    If we do not utilize that power, and elect people who will not stand for giving no bid contracts, and free mining rights, as you, rightly, point out, THEN WHAT POWER WILL STAND AGAINST THE SUPER-WEALTHY CORPORATIONS?

    Glenn Beck?

  • You have the choice between CONTROLLED PAID SHILL #1 or CONTROLLED PAID SHILL #2. And 90% of American voters fall for it voting either Republican or Democrat. Both sides are controlled by the same people. So you follow the pack. Guess What? They actually OWN YOU.

  • I am aware of your argument, that both parties are part of the problem. I am not going to argue with that. The question is: Now that we are aware of the problem, (government in bed with the super-wealthy corporations,) what do we do about?

    Your answer: Just turn it over to the super-wealthy corporations. Remove ALL controls and oversight. The super-wealthy will VOLUNTARILY DO THE RIGHT THING. Diminish the power of government (and its accountability to the people.)

  • My answer: If an elected servant is found to be in bed with the super-wealthy VOTE THEM OUT, AND REPLACE THEM WITH SOMEBODY WHO WILL DO THE WILL OF THE WORKING CLASS CITIZENS. (see Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders.)

    This INCREASES the power of government, and thus the power of the PEOPLE who elect that government.

  • You believe nonsense.

  • Spoken like a person who has one favorite video -- hot4words "Quickie."

    No Sarah Palin videos? I am surprised!!

    A well-informed commentator!!!!!!

  • Once you give government the power to regulate, you give big business the incentive to influence and control government. Government is the biggest business in the world with Trillion dollar budgets. And big business will use their influence to make sure they get a piece of that pie while trying to starve and tax their competitors. Controling government is as old as government itself. The only way to fix that problem is to make sure government can't regulate business. Then their is no incentive.

  • A perfect example: television air waves.

    We give money to candidates that we support. They give our money to CBS and NBC -- in the millions, to purchase air time.

    Why dont we just give free air time to candidates, and keep our money? WE OWN THE AIR WAVES.

    The ignorance of the American people is astonishing.

  • just watch obama outlaw under counter medicine and natural health solutions and vitemens and minerals just like harper just u wait and see.

  • Harper "outlawed" natural health solutions, and vitamins and minerals?

    Canadians are NOT ALLOWED, by law, to get vitamins and minerals?

    Why dont I believe that? I'm sure you will insist its true. But I JUST DONT THINK IT IS TRUE.

    Maybe because I'm not in Kindergarten.

  • bill c6 c16 c26 please look it up it is all going to the summer in canadian senate. you are insulting and your comments are demeaning taoofmichael. please do some reasearch and be better informed.

  • "Canadians ARENT ALLOWED by new Canadian law, to have access to VITAMINS AND MINERALS."

    Sorry if I find that hilarious.

  • Congress will do nothing but provide their masters (The Insurance Industry) with a huge cash cow. There will be no real healthcare reform in America for a long time to come. The current bill will have no public option unless it only covers a tiny portion of Americans. The rest of the reforms will be slowly phased in between 2010 till 2015. The reforms will be very weak and slanted toward the insurance industry. By then another 80,000 Americans will die from lack of care, and nobody cares.

  • American health care = cure is better then prevention !! Its nothing more then a legal drug mafia prescribing over the top drugs for minor illnesses.

  • some people blame the government created and protected monopolies - and look to the government (elected with money from these government created and protected monopolies) to "do something about it". what do you think they will "do about it"? ram through an unread 1000+ page bill that will miraculously take the fascist corporations out of the fascist government created and protected monopolies? they are manufacturing your consent to screw us harder... government and employers out of healthcare!

  • Obama lacks the moral courage to challenge the status quo.

  • I agree, sometimes he tries but he goes back to the same old song. Good Statement ArcticSlicer.

  • Unemployment:Lets see, California, Florida, and the Rust Belt are hardest hit. What do those states have in common?Something that happened last Nov.

    Its called Karma. You elect an inexperienced, unprepared Socialist to lead our country and you wonder why your economic situation isnt improving? He would have been over his head as a committee chair in the Senate, much less President. You reap what you sow California.

  • The economy started to die more than 10 years ago. It wouldn't matter who's in office we still would be up shit creek. What we need to do is end the fed get rid of illegal taxation and make the free market a FREE market. Health care is just one of our issues. If we don't reform our monetary system we're going to continue down this path, no matter who's in office.

  • Yep, you're right man...........................­but Obama should really do whatever he thinks is right instead of waiting for everybody to give him thumbs up. LOL

    Obama started out good with lots of energy but now even we Canadians have noticed that he's now being forced to walk the same path G.B. took.

    I think the American Government should just let those Iraqi and Afghan people kill themselves if they want to till they figure out that war hurts the country more than anything else.

  • Yeah he's not perfect by far. I just think we the people have to stick together to create true change. Stop letting the media divide us, put racism and any other ism behind us so we can truly be free. If we don't our children are going to have their hands full when they become adults. I look at presidents of old and the dirt that they did and I see how they are given a lot more forgiveness, and Obama is not. He's playing the same tune as any other president.

  • PRESIDENT Obama promises that "if you like your health plan, you can keep it," even after he reforms our health-care system. That's untrue. The bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests

  • point to the section in the bill.

  • The private insurers have already forced two thirds of this country into mangled health care plans with limits on their access to specialists and tests. At least the government can make it cheaper by cutting out the profit.

  • 3 Stooges explain the World...Obamas Healthcare planning meeting

    Rahm to Obama: Here's the plan, first we will march through Jerkola, then work our way down through Pushover into SlapHappia, then into the Straights of Rye, the Hot-Sea Tot-Sea, through the Cant See and then finally-GREAT MITTEN!

  • This guy is saying Obama needs to create a "Different kind of 9/11" to fear-monger the votes for Obama's socialist Heathcare plan.

    Socialized healthcare is probably one of the most dangerous things we can be forced into voting for. This guy is running amok already. Hold true to the constitution people! Keep the markets free and out of the government's hands! Let the free market, you, decide where to spend your money!

  • I don't understand one thing. I thought the senates are elected. Since Obama has high supporters of the people, then couldn't he do the right thing and mobilize the citizens as a vehicle to pressure the congress as a whole? Or is United States really that democratic?

  • United States really "NOT" that democratic

  • I hope his health care reform is dead

  • If America socializes medicine, where will the Canadians go?

  • huh?

  • How come when there is NO third party payer, like plastic surgery, the price goes down and the tech gets better?

    The problem is the consumer doesn't make the decisions and isn't the one writing the check. That's the problem, let's think of ways to fix that.

  • So your idea is to eliminate health insurance altogether. All Americans should just "write a check" for their broken legs and heart by-pass surgeries.

    That's so smart. Why didnt I think of that? Problem solved. Thanks Press!! Why didnt Obama just call you up in the first place? Could have saved us all a lot of trouble.

    Course, that means every American is going to have to have at least $150,000 in the bank, to cover the check. How we gonna do that part?

  • well I am all for the gov't funding it through our taxes. It means higher taxes, but suck it up We're a developed nation. We need to have the basic necessities for citizens. And Health is one of those basic necessities. The current for profit system is a nightmare.

  • Not quite, I think insurance should be for insurance purposes and not to pay for office visits and such, it should be there for only the major procedures. That's what insurance should do, what we have now is more like a service contract. Some of the health savings account ideas are in the right direction and some kind of program for the high risk and low or no income needs to be worked out. I just think we can do better then letting those who have failed us drastically provide the answer.

  • If the system we end up with DOESNT COVER office visits, then it will be INEFFICIENT, and it will WASTE LOTS OF MONEY.

    Because when you get people to come in for (very low cost) office visits, they DONT GET SICK AS OFTEN OR AS SEVERELY. And as a result, EVERYBODY SAVES MONEY.

  • Since that's how it is now, we should have saved so much we should all be rich!

  • the government loves us...that's all i need to know. they have my best interests heart. beside i don't know how to take care of myself and it's just better to have the government to take care of me.

  • All I am asking for is a choice.

    Right now, I have NO CHOICE but to buy private health care insurance, from a profit-making insurance company, for an outrageous price, which MAY OR MAY NOT cover my hospital bills.

    I'd like to have the CHOICE to pool my resources with my fellow Americans, negotiate lower costs, cut out the profits, and concentrate on prevention, rather than emergency and catastrophic care all the time.

    ALL I WANT IS A CHOICE!!

  • Please America wake up, you need a system that gives health care to everyone NOW. It is obscene that in a country such as yours a persons ability to get the medicine they need is based on ability to pay. The only people who are scared of this change are the people who are laughing all the way to the bank while people die. It's not about taking away choice, it's about caring about those less fortunate than you. You, as a country talk about your Christian values, where are they?

  • How about if we skip over all that and get to the point.

    Do you think Americans pay a lot for our health care system?

    Do you think the American system provides the best quality care, for the most people, and thus the cost is justified?

    Fine. You like the status quo. Thats cool. I disagree. But you are entitled to your opinion.

  • Nobody is blaming doctors for anything, and certainly NOT for bad American eating habits.

    Americans pay more (by far) for health care than any other country. MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. But our health care outcomes (the results) are NOT THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

    This means we are paying more, and getting worse results, than other countries.

    Nobody is blaming doctors for that. It is the private insurance companies, raking money off the top. Pharmaceutical companies charging too much

  • Taiwan System is still the best!

  • Market system of health care is a disaster. Want to live pay whatever the pharma, insurance, and doctor dictates....REIN IN THE COST BY LAW OR PUBLIC OPTION...NO OTHER WAY.

  • Who care about Canada and Brit system they are junk, we should copy Taiwan or Norway system, low premium, no waiting, and high quality. No money paid to the greed of Insurance and Pharma.

  • Norway isn't any better. There are significant waiting times for many procedures.

    Many Norwegians have to go abroad for medical treatments.

    The average weight for a hip replacement is more than 4 months. Approximately 23 percent of all patients referred for hospital admission have to wait longer than three months for admission. Also, care can be denied if it is not deemed to be cost-effective.

    That's just the kind of thing Americans hate: losing choice.

  • Fear mongering straight up.

    Because the single payer option would cover Marriage and Family counseling -- THAT MEANS THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GET INVOLVED IN YOUR FAMILY.

    Please. Does anybody fall for this horseshit?

    The old Ronald Reagan talking points -- you will lose your choice of doctor (no you wont.) They will ration your care. (The corporations already do this MUCH WORSE than the govt system would.) Long waiting periods (Americans already have long waiting periods for specialists.)

  • Um. Ask people in the US who have been through government mandated family counseling. It's ugly and intrusive in the extreme.

    You don't even know what you're talking about.

    If the proposed system provokes fear, it's not fear mongering. It's a bad proposal. But keep up your emotional energetics. You're making my case better than I ever could.

    One must be irrational to advocate for Obama's health care proposal.

  • Who said it was "government mandated?"

    It is a psychological service that is covered, for families, or substance abusers, who need the help. What is wrong with you? Do you hate Obama that much, to make up stuff?

  • If you'd read the bill you'd know that you're writing nonsense.

    The family services are introduced by amending the Social Security Act to allow social services to mandate family counseling if a psychologist or physician orders it.

    Just read the bill. Oh, that might scare you too much. Don't want to monger fear, do we?

  • Bullshit.

    It is a psychological service, provided for families or individuals that need it -- for a very affordable price.

    Do you really think Obama and his evil hordes are trying to infiltrate American families, and put drugs in their food or something?

    What is wrong with you people?

  • Anyway so I had some pain and went to the doc, ultrasound, and got everthing done with no waiting for anything for FREEE!!! Instead you americans prefer to give your money to bankers who are stealing from you and then go on starting wars all over the world. Not that smart.

  • Continuing from previous post. I did the ultrasound but decided against the xray because I already had a couple this year and told them if I want it I will just get another referal from my doc. Ultrasound was free of course. My doc called me to come in in 2 days and said that I have kidney stones and have some fat on the liver. I aksed her some things about kidney stones etc and she said that if I wanted to have a more detail assessment she can send me to a urologist just to make sure 4FREE!

  • Example from Canada: I had some pain in my right side. I went to a clinic and discussed it with the doc on site. I waited about 1 hour because I went in during busy time with NO APPOINTMENT. The doc assessed me and did a urine test on site (everything free). she said I might be trying to pass a kidney stone. she ordered an ultrasound and x-ray, blood test and another urine test to test for things she could not at the clinic.

  • And still MORE reasons to hate single payer.

    Pg 429 Lines 10-12 Advance care consultation may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

    Pg 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

    Pg 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

    Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those same services

  • Still more reasons to hate single payer.

    Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people.! WTF.

    Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

    Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

  • Even more reasons to hate single payer.

    Pg 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial and personal records.

    Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless of what specialty you have.

    Pg 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctors time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

    Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors what/how much they can own.

  • thats fear mongering. In Canada specialists are paid more then GPs. right now the private company beaurocrats set the prices for what you describe with a margin for the insurance company.

  • How is it fear mongering?

    It's right there - IN THE BILL proposed by House Democrats that Obama wants approved. What does Canada have to do with the bill in the US House?

    Companies don't set medical prices. Prices are imposed by the market. They are set by supply and demand, but are skewed by government price fixing via Medicare and Medicaid.

  • Its fear mongering because what you say is already being done by 'private' beaurocrats with a huge markup for insurance comapnies. This restricts freedom, becasue people are scared to change jobs or do something that will jeopardize their jpbs (like protest against the Fed) for fear of losing medical coverage.

  • Do private insurance companies have access to personal banking records? No. Pay every doctor the same? No. Have the ability to prohibit other companies form investing in R&D and infrastructure? No.

    That's what I love about YouTube. People can just scroll up a bit and see that your are a liar. Nice.

  • Yes Tense. the debate is status quo vs. ANY OTHER alternative. The status quo IS CORPORATE RUN HEALTH CARE (call it free-market. Call it whatever you want) -- which I argue is not as cost efficient as single-payer.

    What is YOUR alternative to the status quo? If you stick with corporate health care, you are arguing FOR THE STATUS QUO.

  • Here's what I wrote: "Another alternative is a free market. It's better than the status quo, and it's better than single payer. I think free market is best."

    How did you miss that? You're a dope.

    Your tiresome Alinsky-style troll tactics are obvious, and must alienate even people who agree with your position.

  • The "free market" is what we have now. How did you miss that?

    We do not have government health care. We have private insurance companies SELLING insurance to customers on the "free market."

    THE STATUS QUO IS FREE MARKET.

    So, I guess you like it the way it is -- thats okay for you. I disagree. And so does Paul Krugman, and the guy from the Heritage Foundation.

    And thanks for the comparison to Alinsky -- a good and moral person.

    Boogey boogey scary socialists!!!!

  • The status quo is not even close to "free market." It's closer to fascist care. Where large connected companies have rules passed in the government where they are made to be your only stop solution.

    There's ridiculous amounts of rules, limits and restrictions. There's nothing "free market" about them. You haven't had free market care since 1960's or so.

  • And so, you are claiming that these "rules, limits, and restrictions" are what is causing the dysfunction in the American system? (The high cost, pre-existing condition problem, denial of care problem, lack of preventative care, too many uninsured problem.)

    ALL THESE PROBLEMS IN THE STATUS QUO, are caused, in your view, bythe GOVERNMENT?

    Do you really think that?

  • Stupidity alert.

    taoofmichael reads this: "The status quo is not even close to "free market."

    Then writes: "And so, you are claiming that these "rules, limits, and restrictions" are what is causing the dysfunction in the American system?"

    I hate to condescend to retards, but it's inevitable here.

    Taoofmichael, he just pointed out that the current system isn't free market. He made no claims about 'dysfunction' at all.

    You're delusional, but that's what it takes to be a leftist these days.

  • Stick to your own debate. You cant handle two thoughts at the same time.

    And substantive arguments will serve you better than kindergarten insults.

  • But just above your wrote, "Fuck off. I'm not going to get into a statistics argument with you. 50 million is my number. I stick by it."

    You will not provide evidence for your claims. Yet here you ask for "substantive arguments."

    This kind of dishonesty is why the left loses in America, time after time. IF this is the best the Democratic Party can muster, I have nothing to worry about. We'll never get single payer with lightweights like you on the other side.

    This is easy.

  • This may be hard for you to believe, but yes. Despite often good intentions, the overload of rules and restrictions cause the problems.

    Simple solutions can't be followed because of legality. Doctors have to over treat to avoid legal holes for malpractice, and patients fight with company provided health insurance to see who covers what.

    If a patient could have a tax free medical savings account they could pay things and be done with it. How much paperwork does one ambulance ride take?

  • All of the arguments you just made are arguments FOR a single-payer government administrated health care system.

    Simple accounting and low paperwork.

    Eliminates malpractice insurance driving up costs.

    No more patients fighting with insurance companies about what is covered.

  • My apologies, let me clarify. I'm Canadian. We have single payer. I like "free" health care.

    It's not free though.

    Lines are indeed getting longer. Care is getting worse, and year after year we have to pay for additional "perks" that were once free. Like a private hospital room, or semi private one. (2 people)

    People are a bit hypercondriac, they'll go for anything. (Its free after all.) This translates to more cost.

    Our taxes are high, our inflation is high. Care is getting worse.

  • Now you are making sense. Now we are getting to ACTUAL solutions. I dont think America should SIMPLY ADOPT THE CANADIAN SYSTEM -- not at all.

    This is the great advantage we have of being such latecomers to the modern world. We can look at ALL THE PLANS that are out there, and pick the best parts of the best plans.

    I, for one, dont think it should be completely free. I think there should be a cost, so people will have some buy in to the system. It should be a very low cost, for poor people.

  • Yes, and the single payer solution would bypass these "large connected (fascist) companies."

    So we agree, I guess.

  • No. the government is inordinately influenced by large, fascist companies. Therefore, government healthcare will be unduly influenced by large, fascist companies. It will be all the problems of the current system, but worse.

    Think defense contractors. That's how bad it will be.

  • Yes, it would be like that -- unless we cut the contractors OUT OF THE PICTURE COMPLETELY, and go to a single-payer, government administrated plan. (Think American military -- Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force.)

    NO PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES. No private contractors. "Private" just means (already rich people skim profits off the top.)

  • Ah. A coercive institution like the military is to be the model for health care. Just as I thought.

    It's not about choice, but about power over the individual.

    Shame on you for using a military model for civilian health care. The VA is a travesty, and everyone knows it.

  • Oh, the military is a bad model for a government health care system? But the private contractors Bush hired were WAY WORSE, as you admit.

    So, I'm trying to get what you are arguing FOR.

    Just do nothing. That is all I am getting from you. You dont like the government running it. But you dont like private corporations running it.

    Who is going to run it? Glenn Beck?

  • On one axis you swing from fascist to socialist. On another axis you go from the individual controlling very little to do with their own health care to the exact same.

    I'm suggesting more choice, responsibility and power lay in individuals for their own care. They can choose to get insurance or join a larger health care group. But that individual still gets to choose.

  • Great! Then we agree. Lets give Americans a choice!! I want to join a larger health care group. In fact, I want it to be REALLY LARGE, like the one our congressperson's have. Where can I sign up for that?

    I can't? Why not? Oh, I DONT HAVE A CHOICE.

  • Taoofmichael, that's just the kind of obfuscation that gives liberals a bad name.

    Choice means the ability to cooperate voluntarily with others. Its doesn't mean you get to coerce others with your military model of health care.

    You are living up to the unfortunate, and often inaccurate stereotype, of the jack booted socialist thug. It's not helping your establish your position, and it's not a reasonable argument.

  • I know what the word "choice" means.

    And right now, I have the "choice" to buy health insurance from a private company, at an outrageous price, which may or may not cover my health care needs. BUT WAIT, that is only ONE CHOICE.

    Lets see. If I have ONE CHOICE, is that really a choice?

  • wow that was a good come back

  • actually it wasn't it. MASSIVE EPIC FAIL there..

  • i made a complement. Say why it wasnt or shut the fuck up you troll.

    Your response dosent even make sense no matter who you thought i was responding too or whether yout hought i was sarcastic or not. since thers no way to know your a retarded douchefuck.

  • Lets skip the "fascist" "socialist" bullshit labels, and just debate the ideas ON THEIR ACTUAL MERITS.

  • lol Its funny how idiot conservatives like TenseAlcyoneus suddenly jump from healthcare to fascism!

  • Yet more reasons American hate single payer.

    Pg 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

    Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

    Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for election funds transfer

    Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

  • More reasons Americans hate single payer.

    Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

    Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments and benefits you get

    Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

    Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

  • Other reasons to disfavor single payer is simple observation of the system at work.

    Canadians wait up to 36 weeks for an MRI. The average emergency room visit is 6 hours to even see a doctor. Moaning patients on stretchers pile up in hospital hallways. People wait years - years!!! - to get family doctors.

    Canadians love their slave-masters, but Americans hate stuff like that.

  • canadians dont wait this long. thats bullshit.

  • As with every claim I make, I got proof.

    tinyurl(.)com/HugeCanadianWait­Times

    Quote: "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."

    Canadian single payer treats dogs better than people. That's sick. Really. Sick.

    Americans are right to hate single payer. It sucks.

  • Tense you 'facts' are pulled straight out of your ass. I just have given you my own personal experience of the canadian system but u refuse to listen. you need a brain replecement, does you tinyurl website have the wait times listed for that as well?

  • Soros needs to better train his minions. Tinyurl provides a url shortening service. That link goes to the New York Times, dipshit.

    you are mathematically illiterate. The claims I've made are statistical claims. you can have a great experience with Canadian single payer, even if most everybody else goes through hell with it.

    It's called a normal distribution. Google it, dumbass.

  • Very dated report and anyway, what's up with sticking it to Canada all the time? Countries like Germany and France have great public healthcare. Maybe we should draw example from them.

  • Most government stats are two years back. yours aren't any better, I assure you.

    Germany isn't any better. the elderly and those with terminal illnesses are often denied care. Since hospitals are run through a global budget, this can reduce their incentive to treat those with serious, expensive-to-treat medical conditions.

    Germany rations scarce medical services by letting old people die without care. Americans hate stuff like that.

  • If you have money, in Germany, or anywhere else, you will get good health care. If you dont have money, in America, you can go to the emergency room (a very expensive way to do health care.)

    On Fresh Air yesterday, they had Paul Krugman and some guy from the Heritage Foundation (right-wing think tank.) They BOTH AGREED that the status quo (employer based health care) is unsustainable, and works against business.

  • What is worse, letting old people die, (which is a straw man, of course, but I'm giving it to you for the sake of argument,) or letting 50 MILLION AMERICAN MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN GO WITHOUT HEALTH CARE (and so, potentially, die.)

    Arent you swallowing the camel and straining at a gnat?

  • Please provide evidence for the 50 million figure you've claimed here.

  • Do you doubt that 50 million Americans do not have health care coverage?

    What do YOU think the real number is?

    Is that number acceptable to you? Or should that number of people (whatever you claim the number is,) go WITHOUT ANY HEALTH CARE COVERAGE, in order to save a few old people from (according to you) doing without expensive treatments at the END OF THEIR LIVES?

    Which is the more efficient path for the most people?

  • Where did you get the 50 million number? I want to evaluate your evidence before I make a judgement. It's not unreasonable of me to ask. It is unreasonable of you to refuse to provide it.

  • Fuck off. I'm not going to get into a statistics argument with you. 50 million is my number. I stick by it.

    If you dont like my number, tell me what you think the number is. Then we can get back to the substance of the argument -- which is -- whatever you think the number is, isnt it too many?

  • So you made a claim without any evidence. you just made up a number s you could scare us all into government control of our health care.

    Shame on you for abdicating the most basic responsibility of a policy advocate: providing reasons for your claims.

    And this is the best the leftists can do? No wonder single payer is seen as such a loser. It's advocated by intellectual lightweights who can't even muster basic evidence for their outlandish claims.

    Amazing.

  • You win Tense. There arent really 50 million uninsured in America. I just made that number up. I am a lying leftist scumbag. Now. Can we move on?

    What would be the number of uninsured Americans that would be acceptable to you?

    How close do you think we are to YOUR unacceptable number?

    When do you think m ight be a good time to do something about the American health care problem? 2012? 2030?

    When should we START thinking about it?

  • Facts just don't suit your argument so i guess you should stick to Fox noise to back up your myths

  • he's wrong only 47 Million Have No Health Insurance... Another 25 Million Don't Have Enough, google it and you will find many many sources nobody claims it to be untrue.

  • Most take the 47 million as an under-accounting. So I round it up to 50 million, just for youtube debates. It not like this a doctoral dissertation or something. 50 million is close enough for a youtube debate.

    This asshole just wants to divert the debate into semantics and statistics, because its the only way he thinks he can win the argument.

    There is NO MERIT in the Republican status quo argument -- and he knows it.

  • Republicans are not advocating for the status quo, but for a free market. Much more free than the current system. There is NO MERIT in taoofmichael's proposal to remove individual health care choice from free Americans. NONE.

    Taoofmichael, how many of that 47 million are illegal aliens, or non-citizens?

  • It is going to shock you to find this out.

    But I REALLY WOULDNT MIND if the people who pick our strawberries, build, clean and landscape our houses, flip our burgers, and pave our roads COULD TAKE THEIR KIDS TO THE DOCTOR WHEN THEY GET SICK.

    It wouldnt bother me at all. In fact, it would make me feel happy.

  • True, The American system is on ability to pay not need, which is better paying twice the German rate so 500k worth of cutting edge healthcare to make an 80 year old live another year and denying basic treatment to the masses that need basic primary care ? or the German system?

  • didnt mention the small business owners who oppose the federal government telling them what they HAVE to do

    WE'RE NOT SOCIALIST OBAMA IS A COMMIE TOM CREATING A OBAMANATION HEADED TOWARD OBAMAGETTIN

  • Private healthcare is nothing but a money guzzling mafia. Just like private banking posing as federal banking. People will lable single payer systems as socialists to scare people just because it would hurt their pockets. Like George Carlin said, "Selfish, unenlightened self interest does not impress me".

  • So, this is the "audacity of hope"?

  • It's the "atrocity of tropes." The Obama nation is an abomination.

  • This is nothing more than an endorsement of socialism. They never say the word, but that's what they mean when they use the 'single payer' system. And they blame the cost of health care on capitalism. It's a lie, and they are socialists lying their asses off. Just say no to gov run health care. It's a sham and scam.

  • What if we stopped being afraid of the word "socialism" and argued single-payer health care on its own merits.

    Capitalism - socialism. America has neither, and never has. We have Medicare and the VA (socialism.) And we HAVE NEVER HAD FREE MARKETS in this country. Corporations receive FAR MORE SUBSIDIES (in dollars) THAN INDIVIDUALS.

    So I guess "socialism" is okay for corporations. It is only "socialism" for individuals that you object to?

  • I don't know where you learned your history, but you couldn't be more wrong. Like all socialists, you fail to distinguish the difference between free market capitalism and corporatism. Corporatism relies on gov for its existence, free market capitalism does not. And, like all socialists, you make the same lame argument to support your socialist agenda - if socialism is good for corporations, then it must be good for individuals. Using CAPITAL LETTERS doesn't make your argument any BETTER.

  • Obama is only an aesthetic change to bush. This should be clear to everyone by now.

  • well research natural medicines change your eating habbits, you know whats healthy and whats not

  • lool obama has to do something comparable , obviously not a 9/11 lol wow i love this guy

  • lol...people should just vote for the Oil company or big arms company CEO. After all they run all countries...

  • what bothers me is that obamas original proposal was:get insurance or be fined. the thing that scares me: how a trip to the hospital could ruin my family financially.and as for drugs; well, if the list of side effects were not worse than the conditions most claim to help i would be happy to consider life 'better with chemicals' but for now; staying healthy is my motto, and i sure hope someone can make sense of the health care system.

  • I'm sick of hearing about this. Its a waste of time to keep hearing the same old stuff over and over again. The truth is that this drama has been preordained by the big money interests. We started with the hype of "single payer" which has evolved through mutliple steps down to very little meaningful change with the pernicious insurance industry well protected. No surprise there, thats the way it has been for a long time. Big money and their lobbyists rule everything. The rest is just theatre.

  • believe me its not only the lobbyists who are opposed to single payer

  • Yeah. I'm not a lobbyist, and I'm opposed to single payer.

  • "You get the votes by the scruff of the neck" - Mike Gravel

  • Why bad?

  • You are crazy most Americans want single payer. My ninety year old neighbor wants single payer and almost everyone else I speak to wants it, and I live in Lancaster Pa!