Reality Check: There is no panel to decide end-of-life care

[frankt04]

@Colour749 so did you see Paul krugman last week endorsing death panels. Just wondering..

[colour749]

its scary how the capitalist media brainwash all these retards.

fox news lies because they are sponsered you donut brain retards

[SuzumiyaHaruhi0]

AYA HIRANO

[Freedomgeorge1776]

It's Illegal!!... There is no "if ands or BUTTS".. this is illegal. O-Bumb-mommy is going to shove this down the True Americans Throats!!

[TheJawsusNSexmanShow]

THE NWO IS COMING. jTHE WORLD WILL END IN 2012!!!!!!!!

[Quindal]

Six Words to End the Health Care Debate

Make Health Care Costs Tax Deductible

This simple solution will appease the left which only wants everyone to have health care, it will appease the right who don't want uncle sam in charge of health care

Additionally this will give the Govt incentive to get out of bed with FDA and Big Pharma and also give the Govt incentive to make sure people get cures, don't get sick, and stay healthy

And as an added bonus, this only helps taxpaying citizens

[Freedomgeorge1776]

This is the best Ideal YET!..

[jchronowski]

I got a bill for Cobra after losing my last job. The charge for the same (not great, but very good) coverage for me to be able to keep it was $1000 a month.I think it was a HAP plan. So great if I get a deduction of between 12000-18000 per year to afford that insurance. I'll take that, but don't hold your breath, that idea is inefficient when you do the math.

The main idea of reform is the pool. Under my employer I only paid about $200/mo for the SAME coverage. You do the math.

[Quindal]

Under the Quindal Plan, you, and businesses too, would receive a tax liability credit equal to your provable expenses on health care related purchases throughout the year

This would effectively give every tax paying American "free" health care, effective immediately, without a government take over

Additionally, most importantly, this would give the Govt. reason to make sure people aren't getting poisoned by preservatives and that they Would get the cures that would hurt Big Pharma's profits

[jchronowski]

Yes- but with our free American economy a business can choose NOT to give it's employees insurance? Are you saying that they will force small businesses to give there employees insurance? Well I think that it is a destructive turn for any small business owner if you support forcing them to pay for something that they cannot afford. And if they could afford it then they would have given employees insurance already. duh... REALLY???

Does this sound like a REAL plan to you or just a diversion?

[Quindal]

erm,

no laws would be made to force a business with less then 100 people to obtain health insurance for them, however, if they chose to do so they would be reimbursed

furthermore it would not be a tax shelter for businesses since they could only claim what they spent, but, being free, small businesses would Want to offer health insurance to remain competitive

[thegetupkid69]

Hahahahahahahahahaha, I can't believe anyone believes FOX NEWS and their BS. Death panels? LOL

[HerrBismarck]

You would be surprise the amount of BS people believe. It is as Hitler (ironically) said "The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."

[jdmdoggs]

Obama should focus on education first. Some people will always try to scare us because they live in fear of something all the time and even when their fears are proven wrong they reluctantly go to the next scare tactic. boo

[zacky89]

They fear a black man in the white house, or atleast thats why the

conservative radio talk show hosts, are promoting..

No wonder people like, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill Oreilly,

sits in a radio show everyday, and promote hate and fear like never seen before

These people should be held accountable, for the iggnorance they promote

[zutroy1]

Yeah, anybody who believes that there were actual "death panels" and managed to interpret that out of optional end of life counselling ... well, probably also believes Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

Also in Sarah Palin's defense she might not actually have anything to do with the writing on her facebook page, I can't imagine most politicans do.

All-around the response from citizens about healthcare has been pretty alarming

[bnelms22]

Im sorry Demmy you will have to wait just like they do in Canada. Basically, your too old to be taken care of. Change you wanted and deserve for being so uninformed about this guy

[tohobbes]

Insurance is STILL going to be managed by corporations, just under different regulatory practices that establish a marketplace. Its not socialism.

Furthermore, this stuff about socialized medicine, which is so bad that people to wait until their dead before they get health care, is totally ridiculous; it's simply false. AND even if that were true, the US system isn't going to be like that.

[bnelms22]

tohobbes Have you read the bill? You would of been better than most that want to vote yes including the President. Addittionally, if you say you have read it then i wonder how you can read something that is constantly changing. FACE IT WE DONT WANT IT PERIOD.

[ReliableInsider]

60% of all personal bankruptcies in America are the direct result of high medical bills.

60% of all personal bankruptcies in America are the direct result of high medical bills.

60% of all personal bankruptcies in America are the direct result of high medical bills and insurers providing insufficient coverage.

It's time for that to stop.

[ReliableInsider]

Sarah Palin's job during the last election was to tell outrageous lies about the President and his wife in order to get John McCain elected.

The election is over. It's time for her to stop.

And it's time for Republican voters to start condemning her for all of her lies.

All that's at stake now is our ability to take our children to the doctor or the hospital without worrying that surprise medical bills and arbitrary coverage decisions by our insurer are going to bankrupt the family.

[elitebanktyranny]

Here's what I here...blah blah blah screw the Constitution. Enumerated powers my ass we'll be doing as we see fit blah blah blah.

[EwakAmerica]

Dear Obamatrons,

I have placed a curse on you for supporting Nazism and Marxism. This curse will have a deeper affect on then the curse that was laid on the kennedy's. Any time you try to forget about this curse it will only grow stronger and more evident. Anywhere you go you will see signs of this curse. This curse will haunt you for the rest of your life until you have changed your ways. Every time you attack someone with the comment of racist/liar this curse will go deeper into your soul.

[carrierexchange]

I curse you to shove a carrot up your ass every day for the rest of your life

[DigitalAquarius]

Shutup you racist liar.

[TetsuoTW]

You're an idiot if you think Obama's a Marxist. I've lived under an ostensibly Marxist regime before. I've seen it in action. Obama might wish he was a Marxist, but he's a looooooooooong way off regardless.

Racist.

[dogcrapgreen]

Seriously - why haven't any criminal charges been filed against Tokyo Rose yet?

[deemstars]

Read some of the things that Ezekial Emanuel has said.

The guy is obsessed with eugenics.

[floridagrandpa]

It is a shame Linda that the government has to spend so much time refuting garbage like death panels. I am in my mid fifties and never have I seen so much crazy fear mongering in my life. Not just about health care but all kinds of other things as well.

[Quindal]

lol, they spend time refuting death panels as they remove them from the bill

what's funny is that they spend so much time disputing american concerns

This simple fact alone shows you that the government of america hates americans and couldn't care less about their concerns

[stonescourt3]

SAY GOODBYE IN 2012 LINDA!

[stonescourt3]

of course there's no panel! that would be too obvious!! how are we going to pay for all the additional insureds? print more money or ration care to certain individuals? and who gets to decide who gets care and who doesnt? this administration is getting tiresome. congress disrespects the people who employ all of you, and you all think you're God, deciding what is best for everyone without taking our wishes into account. I'M VOTING YOU ALL OUT.

[208975]

reality check

you work for us

we dont want it

[dogcrapgreen]

Liar!!!!!

As Health Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius decides the budget and resources available.

you decide...Ha the government decides what is available!!!

The way Great Britain does this is to make the wait time long enough so enough people die to allow the survivors the access to the available resources.

A professional politician - not a doctor!!!!

[ARboiWundr]

When was the last time that you used Britain's healthcare? Hmm... I'm guessing never. The average wait time for government aided health assistance is actually just as long as our wait for private insurance... and sometimes faster.

[nnossov]

I know, I have friends that live in London. Have moved out of US. They absolutely love their health coverage.

[dogcrapgreen]

I was there 3 years ago visiting a friend. It sadden me to see this loser talk about what the government needed to do about housing, healthcare, employment.

Once socialisiem sinks in. The people become zombies. A man's spirit dies.

And you lie about British wait time. To put the problem in percpective. Imagine if we had 5% fewer doctors. Then 10% fewer doctors. Then 15% fewer doctors. When given a choice between freedom and working for Obama. Many will choose freedom.

[TetsuoTW]

I'm sorry, but if you can't even spell, I don't really think I can trust your insight into detailed political matters.

Get your GED, then we'll talk.

[ARboiWundr]

Last time I checked, the word was spelled Socialism. but that is just me being picky. And we all know that 3 years ago is different than today. Heck, 3 years ago the U.S. had one of the most unpopular presidents in the history of our country. Apparently you don't keep up with world news. The current Prime Minister and his cabinet have been working to renew British healthcare with clear results. As I said before, wait times are equal to or shorter than the U.S. without the costs.

[rollinglibs101]

This Government takeover of healthcare is nothing more than the Ocommies taking over another aspect of our lives.

Let's see, hmmm, the Government has take over (in 8 short months):

The Auto Industry

The Credit Card Industry

The Banks

oh yeah, lets not forget a 2 trillion dollare debt.

What next?

[MrLetfreedomring]

These OBAMABOTS are soooo ridiculous, what a bunch of lies, we are suppose to believe everyything out of her mouth? She is Tokyo Rose reborn from WW2,LMAO, remove the paperwork? LMAO , free charge??? If anyone believes this is going to be free, make sure you check your tax return next year!!! She cant even site anything from HR3200, by page number like Congressman Alan Grayson required you to do if you asked a question at his meeting at a UNION HALL, isnt that like LENIN speaking at RED SQUARE?

[underbird]

Dr. Ezekial Emanuel Obama key health adviser:

" When the worst-off can benefit only slightly while better-off people could benefit greatly, allocating to the better-off is often justifiable....

When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated."

[MrLetfreedomring]

Your on it UNDERBIRD!! I guess Tokyo Rose aka Linda Douglass never read this article.....

GOOGLE: DEADLY DOCTORS , NY POST, BETSY MCCAUGHEY

[OlivierdeAthos]

Instead of taking an out of context quote, why not read the paper itself? Like it or not there are some medical resources, like organ transplants, that they must be rationed. If you have one heart to transplant, and five people need it, how do you decide which one gets it? That's what the paper is about, not rationing of healthcare in general.

ncpa. org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379. pdf

[underbird]

If you dont think that a government system will be plagued with scarcity on every level you are dreaming. In a market system supply moves to meet demand. In a government system, a panel decides who gets what. Thats why the US has higher survival rates for major diseases. A free market does the most good for the most people. The pie can almost always get bigger.

[OlivierdeAthos]

"Thats why the US has higher survival rates for major diseases"

No, there are only a couple of types of cancer where the U.S. has higher survival rates, and only then for people with insurance. In other areas, where deaths are preventable by simple medical interventions, the U.S. ranks last (19/19) among the industrialized countries.

Source:

reuters. com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN­07651650

Healthcare is already rationed in the U.S., but by INCOME rather than medical need.

[underbird]

" tracked deaths that they deemed could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, and ranked nations on how they did." Im sorry thats but thats crap. Sounds like the WHO rankings. Survival rates are black and white and there was nothing about insurance. If you have a life threatening illness the hospital must treat you regardless.

[OlivierdeAthos]

So, survival rates are black and white, but deaths are not?

I gave you the source for the preventable deaths numbers. What's your source for the survival rate data? (Hopefully not the ones conjured up by David Gratzer from the Manhattan Institute and fed to Giuliani, because those are inaccurate.)

[underbird]

repository. upenn. edu/psc _ working_papers /13/

"by standards of OECD countries, the US does well in terms of screening for cancer, survival rates from cancer, survival rates after heart attacks and strokes, and medication of individuals with high levels of blood pressure or cholestero"

[OlivierdeAthos]

That paper compares five year survival rates (page 6) without paying any attention to stage of diagnosis. That's a meaningless comparison, which is probably why that paper was not published in a peer-reviewed journal. (ie-it's meaningless to compare mixtures of Stage I, II, and III survival rates. You have to break them down by stage.)

Can you find me a paper published in a peer-reviewed journal? (Other than the original Lancet Oncology, Vol. 9, No. 8 paper, which makes the same mistake?)

[underbird]

meaningless yeah ok. yeah I will go research some peer reviewed journals for you. I can send you some coffee as well. We could discover that socialism is actually better than captialism. I mean look how great East Germany did with it. Was going great except people keep trying to leave. Kind of like the people coming to the US for surgery.

[tohobbes]

Obviousy a free market is better.

But a government system doesn't automatically mean socialism. They said time and again that the plan is about establishing a market place and defining regulations that are fair to consumers -- this isn't socialism this IS free enterprise.

Even with the public health-care option, state-owned health-care is STILL just an option, you aren't forced to surrender your health care to the government, so that's not socialism either.

[underbird]

Everyone knows the goal is "single payer". If the government wont pay the same amount as insurance companies cost will shift to them which will drive up private insurance costs. Eventually companies will drop the plans and only the very rich will afford the insurance if it still exists. Many supporters in Washington know this: watch?v=ndStT6c93rc

[HerrBismarck]

Actually, having any government regulation is socialism. But that's not a bad thing.

The past has proven that people cannot be trusted, big and powerful people cannot be trusted to do what is right (industrial revolution).

That's what people need to understand.

And a free market is not actually better, a single payer is better (like France who has the best health care). Health care is too important to trust it to the individuals who just want money.

So I'm actually for a Gov't take over.

[OlivierdeAthos]

Regulation, per se, is not socialist. But taxation and distribution of tax money on a public project is socialism and collectivism by definition. When the Continental Congress implemented a tax to pay for the Continental Army, that was an example of socialism. So, the United States has used socialist policies from the beginning. I just wish politicians wouldn't be so hypocritical about it. Politicians who claim to be against socialism also support Medicare and Social Security. Hypocrites.

[HerrBismarck]

Of course. Americans always pride themselves in "democracy" and "capitalism" when in reality they are living in a representative system (aristocratic democracy) with quite an amount socialism (like you said).

Complete Capitalism is anarchy, complete communism is utopia (but when applied to the real world, it is N.Korea).

The best system is in between, which is socialism.

[OlivierdeAthos]

Well, I wouldn't put it that way, I'd say that mixed economies (a mixture of private and public enterprise, and govt. regulation) have EVOLVED, and are now used everywhere in the world (with a couple of exceptions) because the extremes (communism and laissez-faire) are fatally flawed. It's just a question of which ratio of private to public enterprise you use. Americans still like to pretend they use a free market system, when in fact it's just a high ratio private to public economic system.

[HerrBismarck]

Yeah, that's what I said (I think). You can't have the government rule everything (since they are only humans and can be wrong) but you can't leave it to the individuals (for humans tend to only care about themselves).

Hence socialism (the middle part) where the gov't take care of the essentials (food, medicine, education) while individuals take care of the rest (tech, science, art, luxuries) is the best system. I say that is the perfect ratio.

[floridagrandpa]

HerrBismarck, I have been to Haiti on a mission trip once. It is totally unrestrained capitalism and is just as bad as N. Korea. We already live in a socialistic country. Our roads, schools, social security , Medicare, libraries and much more are all socialistic elements in our Society. Also the remark of aristocratic democracy is very correct. You must know a little history. To thrive we need a balance between Socialism and Capitalism. We have been tilted too much towards Capitalism lately.

[OlivierdeAthos]

By the way, nice job on suggesting a 65 year retirement age when you knew the average life expectancy was only 60, Herr Bismark, you sneaky old devil. I bow to the political genius of the only man to have a more ridiculous mustache than John Bolton.

[tohobbes]

I don't consider government regulation to have anything to do with socialism. It's not public ownership of all resources via unilateral government control. History has shown me that socialism is nothing but bad for people.

But Obama's health reforms have nothing to do with socialism. And what about national defense, public education, and medicare? Socialist enterprises within our free market are possible. Thats what we should be debating, but the damn right-wing just can't comprehend it.

[HerrBismarck]

When you say "History has shown me that socialism is nothing but bad for people" make sure you don't confuse socialism with communism. Socialism is more realistic than communism.

[TheJawsusNSexmanShow]

lol most of the world is socialist or a socialist/capitalist hybrid

[reevaluate2008]

how's that illegal flag@dotgov going Linda?

[Smartassawhip]

WE want a Public plan Mr. president!

If you want to know ways in which you can get involved and get honest information regarding health care reform please visit my profile. Thanks.

[Quindal]

this video = yet another misconstrued lie

There MUST be people who decide which treatments will and will not be performed, otherwise everyone would get every treatment and this thing would go into the toilet just like every other government program has, so someone HAS to limit health care somewhere

The people who will most likely be left to die will be those who cannot contribute and put money back into the gov, because helping them will be wasteful and deny someone that CAN contribute

scary

[mahoneytherockband]

Yea, there is a person who will decide which treatments will be performed. That person is called "YOUR DOCTOR"!!!!!!!

What you describe is something so ridiculous and so made-up out of NO WHERE

[OlivierdeAthos]

The purpose of the Health Benefits Advisory Committee is to define the MINIMUM levels of care that constitute an essential benefits package, pursuant to Sec. 122.

The committee has nothing to do with rationing healthcare.

I have an academic question for you. If there are five people who need a heart transplant, and you have only one heart to transplant, how would you determine who gets it? Drawing straws? Because that's what Emanuel was discussing in the academic paper cited by that Op/Ed.

[dogcrapgreen]

looks like ACRON is on patrol. You are spot on. so you took your hit.

The way it's done in England is to have the wait time long enough so that those that live through the wait don'y out number the treatment.

To understand the limited resources coming our way... Who will choose to be a doctor? Who will work for the demonize drug companies?

The supply of quality and quantity of help is going to drop like a rock.

Now add what it does to a person mind and spirit to know he has no options...

[Mauhadeeb28]

agreed. To think there will not be rationing is ignorant. It is impossible to pay for every single procedure, visit, bump on the head, and skinned knee through taxes... Someone will have to sacrifice.

[Quindal]

ANTI-FASCIST VIEWERS

Please remember to vote thumbs up and thumbs down to posts, your lack of doing so is resulting in the liberals being able to censor people that they do not agree with

[trendyfungus]

Demmy's an idiot.

[PinkyWhisperer]

Best President EVER !!!!!!!..... Your getting my vote Again Sr. Obama!!!!!!

[rennnsymbol]

These stupid bigots and their claims of the Obama Admin starting death panels. Pay attention dummies!

[curtishawkley]

please remove this fascism from youtube

[idontnormallydothis]

just one question ?

hmmm...

[dragonzord23]

yeah right

[Mauhadeeb28]

Everything she said is economically impossible at this time. There is simply not enough money to pay for these proposals without ridiculous tax increases to our employers and businesses.

[joshuag5732]

If there were any really good arguments against health care reform, Republicans and the health insurance companies would use them instead of all these rumors. Talk about ridiculous.

[MagellansUnderwear]

if we hadn't been wasting time, money and human lives in Iraq, this would be a very easy and economically palatable thing to do. You're actually one of the few people against reform that has posed the one of the two reasonable arguments against it, so I applaud you for that. Truth be told, legalizing marijuana , taxing it, and taxing the top 1% at Reagan era levels would pay for it.

[KataVideo]

but if someone wanted to start a war in a country you didn't like, you'd be happy to go no matter what the cost, huh?

[Mauhadeeb28]

Huh? What are you talking about?

[wildreams]

Maybe, but the main point is the whole death panel thing is a lie.

[Mauhadeeb28]

The whole point is that it is all very misleading...

[noimw]

Misleading, Only in YOUR mind.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Right. It's only in MY mind. You keep on thinking that brother...

[noimw]

Give the Man a chance. There is nothing we can do right now anyway. Let's wait and see if he can pull off what he says he can do, or if he is just blowing smoke. Only time will tell.

No sense in jumping into the conspiracy pool until it has been filled.

[underbird]

there is no coming back from this one.

[noimw]

Why would we want to come back to what we have now ?

If you don't like the way we the people run the government,

you know what you can do......

[underbird]

we cant until next year.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Your right. And we will do our best to weed through the lies the media tells so we can really see who and what we are voting for. I hope everyone on this page will do the same.

[Mauhadeeb28]

I am not worried about the man, I am worried about the whole. I am giving him a chance, but he is not doing much positive with it. We really don't have a lot of time left. I do not believe in conspiracies. I am only interested in the facts. But same of the things proposed in this particular piece of legislation cannot be taken at face value.

[noimw]

enjoy your swim in the conspiracy pool. Hope you don't drown.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Did you even read my comment or did you just comment in an attempt to discredit me?

[ARboiWundr]

The lady asking the question needs to do her own research and quit listening to Fox news... and reading Ms. Palin's facebook page.

[dragonzord23]

is every one here a obama suck up

[joshuag5732]

I'm not an Obama suck up. I'm a citizen of the United States that cares about reforming our health care. I and most Americans are tired of being screwed over by a tyrannical system that insures the healthy and abandons the sick.

[maggoli67]

Pretty much. But Bush was bad, too.

[LibertyOrBust]

So everyone gets more more and more.

Can we address the bankruptcy of Medicare please?

[Cutchswife]

It's people like Sarah Palin claiming that their disabled children will have to go in front of 'death panels' to see if they live or die, that causes confusion among the people of America. Palin is now busy back peddaling over those claims btw.

[voyeurdug]

Whoa... wrong subtitling.

[KataVideo]

I wish more people would trust their own ability to think, and realize that these freakish claims from the right-wing talk radio pundits are just that: freakish.

[dragonzord23]

so you do whatever obama tells you

[joshuag5732]

I'll learn about the issues and make my own decision the same that i do for any other topic of discussion. Just because I think we need to do something about the incredible unfairness of our health care system does not make me a suck up.

[underbird]

it just makes you a socialist actually.

[KataVideo]

never met the man, ASS

[underbird]

Dont debate with facts just call the opposition freakish. Seems to be the strategy of the Obama administration actually. Argue the points.

[KataVideo]

fact one: there are no death panels.

fact two: you're an idiot. I'm sorry, a freakish idiot.

fact three: barney frank was AWESOME dealing with one of your kind.