@TheTrinityDelusion Yes I do. But that's a different docttr\ne all together. The reason I find it hard to believe that you were ever a trinitarian is because of the above example. I will explain in my next video. I'm on vacation this week so I will find time.
This should be interesting. In your video, you could perhaps explain to everyone how it is that God the Son's God is God the Father and the 2nd person of the Trinity was hanging dead on the cross.
Look at Phil 2:6 - Jesus had always had the Honour. He was by very nature God. But he humbled himself and made himself in the likeness of man. How could he have humbled himself if he was not in a position of exaltation in the first place? It is because of his humbled lowly position and his obedience till death that God had exalted him. Jesus always had the glory of God though prior to the incarnation (John 17:5).
@BauerPower247 Vs 20 " The Father loves the Son, and SHOWS him all the things He Himself is doing"
Would God, The Godman, or an equal need to be shown anything?
Vs 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has GIVEN all judgment to the Son"
Vs 26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He GAVE to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He GAVE HIM AUTHORITY to execute judgment"
Jesus had to be GIVEN authority, had to have life in himself GIVEN to him.
As per verse 22 - the "judgement seat of Christ" and "the judgement seat of God" are used syonomously in scripture. The new testament still affirms that God is judge of all.
V 26 - Yes. Jesus was both fully God and fully man. As a man, he was just as dependant on God as any other man was. As man, he lived because of the Father, but as God, we all live because of him. He sustains all things Col (1:17).
Lastly, I should note that John 5:18 to John 5:22 should not be read in isolation from the context. Jesus said that just like his Father, he was also working. The Jews understood well that ONLY GOD works on the Sabbath to sustain everything.
@BauerPower247 The accusation is that Jesus was "making himself equal to God"
Are you suggesting that the following verses signify equality with the Son and God?
Vs 19"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner." NASB
Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
"Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
What does it have to do with equality or inferiority at all? Jesus was making the point that him and the Father are in perfect unity." The fact that Jesus does only what the Father does would strongly imply his deity don't you think? Can you name one person that can say that they do only what they see the Heavenly Father do?
Also, in your interpretation of john 5:19 and what follows,you are reading in something that is inconsistent with what John had stated in John 5:18. John did not say that the Jews sought more to kill him becasue he was calling God his own Father [which they mistakenly perceived him to be] making himself equal with God.
"Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
"...so that all may honour the son JUST AS they honour the Father." That sure sounds more like it speaks to equality with God then Jesus affirmation that he can do only what he sees the Father do.
@October31st1517 The Jews were wrong to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. They were wrong to accuse Jesus of blasphemy for stating the truth that God was his Father.
To use the this verse to support the "Godman" you are siding with the twisted Jews who wanted to kill our Lord, and completely ignore Jesus reply which clearly states he is nowhere close to being equal to God.
The false reasoning of the Jewish religious leaders should not be the basis of a Christians belief
"...completely ignore Jesus reply which clearly states he is nowhere close to being equal to God."
Please explain this. I have looked this passage over in its entire context and cannot find anwhere that insinuates Jesus is "nowhere close to being equal to God." I cannot see this anywhere in Jesus's own reply. In fact Jesus goes on to say that judgement has been entrusted to him so that all may honour the Son JUST AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER.
@october31st1517 When the Jews catch up with Jesus he is in the middle of a discourse where they heard him say that God was his Father. Now they really want to kill him for in their opinion that statement by Jesus makes him Gods equal.
Does it?
The first reason they want him dead is breaking the Sabbath Law. Did Jesus break the Sabbath?
Absolutely not. If he did, Jesus would have sinned, his sacrifice would be void and salvation would be beyond us.
@October31st1517 You have chosen as a verse to back up your belief that Jesus was "The Godman John 5:18 where the Jews ( religious leaders) said
"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." You reason " So calling God his Father makes him equal to WHO ?".
Jesus cures a man who has been ill on the Sabbath for this the Jews want to kill him
@steveparadise1 No ASSUMPTION on my part at all. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." So calling God His Father makes Him equal with WHO?
@October31st1517 Jesus many times called himself "Son of Man". In doing so he emphasised that he truly was a man, flesh and blood, and did not just materialise a body like angels had done in the past.
The bible speaks of many " Sons of God". Angels and Adam for instance. Jesus is truly a "Son of God" but in a superior and unique way.
Is not the "hypostatic union" Jesus "The Man" and Jesus "The God" ? The God/Man. As opposed to Jesus "man" and "Son of God"
@steveparadise1 Your answers contradict themselves. You are correct when you say that Son of Man means that whatever it takes to be human, Jesus has it. So likewise when Jesus calls Himself THE Son of God, whatever it takes to be God, Jesus has it. Also your explaination of the hypostatic union is incorrect. Jesus the Man? Jesus the God? You cannot seperate the natures of Christ. That would be heretical Jesus was the Godman.
This WOLF called: TheSavioursServant / TheTrinityDelusion & whatever other clones he has is spreading his POISON everywhere. He used to be called stumblinservat about a year ago.
He claims that when Jesus was on this earth he was only a man & was not God. HERESY !
What about John 10:30, John 1:13; Mark 2:26 etc ? I'm sure he'll twist them as well. Doesn't he know about the Hypostatic Union ?
@October31st1517 Yeah, it's been too long ago since we talked. Stopped making videos and posting comments. But I will post a video shortly with an update.
Those are just a few of the many quotes. My hope is all will not be slaves of the spirit of fear that surrounds the Trinitarian doctrine and will seek the simple, powerful truth from Scripture. I pray all will listen to him and not any men who make God's word confusing. Jesus came to reveal God and never claimed to be Yahweh nor spoke of a "triune God" (a post-apostolic development). Neither did the Apostles. The dilemma is the Trini's. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal!
@SopaterTheBerean 2Cr 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by(ek out of) the power of God.. "The glorified Jesus lives out of God's power he has a source. The Father is the only source he hasn't a source to live by it, he upholds his son and all things through his son, he is before his son and all things. There was no one before or after the one, he was all that was, for there was nothing only the one, who is the only source.
"All the other expressions likewise bring out the title of One and the same being; as, for example, The Lord of Powers, The Father of all, God Almighty, The Most High, The Creator, The Maker, and such like. These are not the names and titles of a succession of different beings, but of One and the same, by means of which the One God and Father is revealed, He who contains all things, and grants to all the privilege of existence. "(II, 35). Jesus lives b/c of the Father. Heb 2:11, John 6:57
"By calling upon Him, even before the coming of our Lord, men were saved both from most wicked spirits, and from all kinds of demons, and from every sort of apostate power." (Book II, 6). Notice the One who is called the God of Israel in previous Ire quotes is called the One God, Most High, and Almighty. This is none other than the Father, who was called upon BEFORE THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS and men were saved. Here's another... cont.
" Wherefore, although "no one knows the Father, except the Son, nor the Son except the Father, and those to whom the Son will reveal Him," yet all do know this one fact at least, because reason, implanted in their minds, moves them, and shows to them that there is One God, the Lord of all. And because of this, all things have been put under the His influence who is called the Most High, and the Almighty.... cont.
I want to post some Irenaeus quotes to show that he was clearly not Trinitarian, for anyone reading. Yes, even in light of those quotes. The method of selective quoting used by Trinitarians does not prove anything, but in the entirety of Irenaeus' works it is clearly expressed that he saw the Father as the one God and Almighty. I'm sure all are aware that a quote taken out of context is pretext. In my studies (I'm a former Trinitarian) I found the Trini proof texts often to be out of context.
@Proverbs1533 Bible teaches that there is one God/creator/source so when Jesus died on the cross who upheld all things? Can an eternal God have a source and still hold eternality?
That's unbiblical-----} the Father is the only true God, as also Christ is the only true God and as the Spirit is the only true God.
That's three only true Gods<--It's called Babylon(Confusion).
@Proverbs1533 Said: My second question would be if Christ were God would he become less than God if He took on flesh? "Answer: You're saying if Jesus were the eternal God would he become less than the eternal God if he took on flesh, the eternal God can't become less/inferior his eternality is constant/unchanging and he isn't a creation nor part of it.
@msm1876 I'm not going to go round and round with you with Hebrews because you've heard it before, you just don't agree. But it all hinges on how God who you do agree is immutable could have mutated. Don't gloss over that inconsistency and contradiction. God expressly distinguishes himself as Spirit and not flesh, and the Spirit is distinguished from flesh throughout Scripture. The word became flesh, NOT "put on flesh," as made clear in 1John 1 in response to antichrist doctrine.
@CristoYcruz And the truth sets you free... free from the condemnation and chains of men. All I have I have received by the grace of God. Sight is a gift, I have never been worthy to see the truth. God just graciously opened my eyes to the powerful simplicity of His truth. There's no need to add anything to it.
@msm1876 We can go around and around but when you read Irenaeus it's clear he sees the Father as the only Almighty, the one true God and does not see Jesus the same way. That's why I interpret irenaeus in light of what the scriptures teach, not what men who came later proposed.
Another thing to add, wish comments could be a tad longer... At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology. There were no Trinitarians in the early church. Trini scholars even admit the doctrine is not expressly taught in the Scripture. In other words, it's not Biblical!
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology
so that He indeed who made all things can alone, together with His Word, properly be termed God and Lord: but the things which have been made cannot have this term applied to them- AH, Bk 3, ch. 8, sec3
But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father...AH Bk2, ch30, sec 9
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology
Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King... AH 1:10:1
For with Him were ALWAYS PRESENT the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; " [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1).
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology.
"'...and the Word was God,' of course, for that which is begotten of God is God." (Against Heresies, Book I, ch. 8, section 5)
"Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spake to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers." (Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 5, section 2)
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Trini scholars even admit the doctrine is not expressly taught in the Scripture
Yes, the HOWS are not there, ie how there is One God, yet 3 persons who are God. The THATS **are** there. THAT one God exists as 3 persons **IS** Christ's deity is there. Wanna talk John 8:56-58?
The Holy Spirit's personality/deity are there. Acts 13:2, perhaps?
@October31st1517 We also have two natures like Jesus human and divine that doesn't make Us nor Jesus equal/same with our Father, God. Remember We and Jesus have the same Father and God.
Jesus nor the Jews never believed/worshiped a triune God they believed/worshiped one God their Father from where do you get three Gods in One God?
@msm1876 ThA man Jesus Christ is NOT god heheheh!!! Mr. KEL blocked me cause he couldn't handle the truth at least with you I had more freedom of speech I believe Mr. Kel is just another wanna be.
Why no mooo God vidoes? You where the greatest debaterrr I have ever known Juniooor?
@SopaterTheBerean >>>begotten/born means to be brought into existence
That's why the nicene creed expresses Christ as being "begotten, not made?" That why dozens of Church Fathers expressed Christ as being begotten of the Father, yet affirming him to be true Deity??
You would honor the Son by listening to what he says, not voiding what he says. Where's the Bible teaching for the hypostatic union? Not an inference, but an explanation if it is so important to know. If the man Jesus was God, then God died, but God cannot die, according to the Scriptures. "As I live..." God swears by his existence. If God died, then you can throw your Bible and all of it's promises in the trash.
YYYAAAAYYYYYYY YOUR BACK!!!!!! I so look forward to your video's Mark! As to the video... I felt scared for the guy as he kept saying "Jesus is not God" wow..
@Mencel89 The point is he misrepresented the Christian position. He is claiming that we are dividing the natures of Christ. Do you honor the the Son JUST AS you honor the Father?
@October31st1517 Ignoring the context, as usual. As a believer in sovereign grace, I see others pride themselves in taking passages in context when it comes to soteriology, but no consistency when it comes to God and Christ revealed in Scripture. For context read Joh 5:19 where Jesus says he can do nothing of his own through verse 26 where Jesus says he lives because of the Father (i.e. not self-existent.) Therefore we conclude the honor is not in Jesus being Yahweh ontologically.
"For context read Joh 5:19 where Jesus says he can do nothing of his own..." The context actually begins much earlier than John 5:19. If you read John 5:18, the Jews clearly understood the fact that when Jesus called God his own Father, he was making himself EQUAL WITH GOD." This is the backdrop through which John 5:19 ff. should be understood. Remember that God has no equal (Isaiah 40:25).
@BauerPower247 The text also said he was breaking the Sabbath. It's called falsely accusing as shown by jesus' response. It's really not that difficult. God alone possesses immortality. Read and hear this: 1Ti 1:17 To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, THE ONLY GOD, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. The only God is immortal and invisible. Who is this? Compare with 1Ti 6:15-16 Who is Paul talking about? Compare with 1Joh 4:12-21. God is the Father. Jesus is his Son.
Let us examine Christ's own words: "and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? (John 11:26)" Onew could make the same arguments about John the Babtist, Stephen and Lazarus. They certainly believed in Jesus. Did they die? YES. obviously when scripture says that God cannot die, it is not refering to a temporal physical death, but an eternal spiritual death. continued...
@October31st1517 How did and does Jesus honor his Father? And how do you honor the Father? Is the Father your only God as Jesus only God is his Father? How many natures does God the Father have? For Jesus to be equal/same with his Father, God, Jesus has to be a spirit like his Father who is immutable.
@CristoYcruz Most humbly the Father is the only true God, as also Christ is the only true God and as the Spirit is the only true God. You said "For Jesus to be equal/same with his Father, God, Jesus has to be a spirit like his Father who is immutable" My first question is do you believe that God can become flesh? My second question would be if Christ were God would he become less than God if He took on flesh?
@Proverbs1533 Said: My first question is do you believe that God can become flesh? "Answer: It depends on what God you're referring too, the only God, the Father, alone is immutable, he can't become flesh. Bible is clear, the only God sent his only son to become like one of us, Jesus said his God is a spirit.
This guy is lost without a map concerning what the Hypostatic Union is. Jesus is a PERSON who is GOD...and a PERSON who is HUMAN. He tried his sleight of hand wordplay concerning this topic on a recent video I did and got it thrown right back in his face. See the comments section
@msm1876 Nice job of tooting your own horn as usual, but I actually think you got owned in logic right there. If Jesus is one person, and one person died, and Jesus is God, then you have to say God died. Whatever death is, God can't do it. But you say that flesh isn't really Jesus/Son of God, but that it housed Jesus. That is exactly the antichrist doctrine the Apostle John fought against.
>>If Jesus is one person, and one person died, and Jesus is God, then you have to say God died.
A person who was God died. The DEITY that MADE THAT PERSON GOD did not.
Feel free to use this "dillema" to make you feel better about being a Socinian, or an Arian, or whatever you are, but know that God could have cared less about either or these "truths" that he let them perish and stay dead for centuries.
You're serious?? John was railing against people who denied that Jesus came in the flesh at all!
Strange that people John mentored and wrote against those same heretics, like Ignatius of Antioch, had no problem with the fact that Jesus CHrist was indeed uncreated deity in flesh.
There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made...even Jesus Christ our Lord. (Ephesians 7)
@msm1876 That isn't an ad hom. Is the Deity identical with that person or do we have two people? Do you even comprehend what you are saying? These truths have not perished, btw, but majority never, ever, validates truth. The anti-Christ doctrine is not denying that Jesus was a man. It's denying that the flesh is the Messiah. That's why he said we "handled" the word in 1 John. You say the Word is God the Son who didn't die. John says that flesh that died was the word, the Christ.
Sure they did. Prove me wrong by naming an Arian from the 900s. Or a Socinian from the 900s, for that matter.
>>>Ignatius' writings was tampered
I was waiting for you to say this. Why would a later Trinitarian put heterodox language in the man's mouth? The Greek is "Generato kai agenerato." Dogma would later express Christ's uncreated state as being eternally generated from the Father. This was not a tampering.
@SopaterTheBerean >>>If so why resort constantly to extra biblical writings?
To show how historically bankrupt your belief is. If the apostles taught what you believe, and meant what you're saying they meant, well wouldn't SOMEONE believe it in the post apostolic church?? Other than the ebionites? And wouldn't God bother to keep it alive for all to believe it for centuries??
I'll hit you with a dillema based on scripture and history to show you that whatever you believe, it's not truth.
@Sopater Here's the dillema. In Mt 13:30, Jesus said true Christians and fakes would be in the world until he returned. Translation? True Christians would ALWAYS be on earth. ALWAYS.
1) I can name a Trinitarian from the 1200s...St. Francis of Assisi.
2) Can you name a Unitarian from that time...without arguing from silence?
3) If you can't name someone who believed something that you hold as absolute orthodoxy from all times in Xtian history...are you sure it's not a false belief?
@msm1876 No dilemma at all. I get my truth from Scripture alone. Paul, nor any of the apostles were Trinitarian. The dilemma is yours. Even Tertullian who first used the term Trinity believed there was a time when the Son did not exist. So even he wasn't Trini as used in the modern sense. There have always been believers who believed the Father was God alone. The truth doesn't hinge on my ability to name someone from every era. Jesus says my God and his God is his Father. I follow him.
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Even Tertullian who first used the term Trinity believed there was a time when the Son did not exist.
Tertullian was a two phase Logos guy. He didn't mean that in an Arian sense. He says Christ's deity comes from "unborn" substance in "The Flesh of CHrist" ch 6.
>>>There have always been believers who believed the Father was God alone
Who, from the 1200s, then? Without saying "well, I'm sure there was someone."
@msm1876 Trinitarianism is speaking out of both sides of your mouth constantly. You rail about Nestorianism separating the two natures and then what do you do at the cross? You separate the two natures, saying one was dead and the other wasn't. God had to die but God didn't die. Ignatius' writings was tampered with and it's demonstrable but that quote isn't limited to your interpretation. How about the Ephesians we should quote like Eph 4:6.... cont...
@msm1876 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. This is who Jesus says is his Father and our Father in John 20:17. Plain words. Easy to understand. Voided by Trinitarian dogma. People who call Jesus their Lord are constantly adding to or twisting the text instead of just believing what he says. They'd rather believe their superstar famous men, or these super apostles....
@Sopater cont. Eph 4. Yes, the Father is the 1 God. And the Sun at the center of the Solar System is the 1 Sun. But that One Sun has produced rays and heat by it's very nature, as long as it has existed. And that One God has been pouring His being into his Son as long as He has existed, too...and his Spirit has been proceeding from Him as long as he has existed.
All you're doing is grabbing texts to prop up heresies that croaked centuries ago...and now wander the earth as undead zombies.
@msm1876 There's only one sun? lol. This is a typical response. No Scripture to refute anything. Are you Sola Scriptura? According to Jesus, the Father is a person, because he referred to him as He. So then, the one God would be one person, according to Jesus, right?
@SopaterTheBerean >>>So then, the one God would be one person, according to Jesus, right?
I really have no problem with that. It's just that One Person Begets a Son...and as man begets man, horse begets horse, and cow begets cow, "what is Begotten of God is God." Irenaeus' words, not mine, BTW. If you have a problem with that, please speak to the guy mentored by the guy mentored by John. None of your "God is one one person" proof texts deny Christ's generation from the Father.
@msm1876 "What is begotten of God is God." When man begets a son, he begets a different man. When God begats a son, in following suit, then that would be a different God. You have to equivocate terms for it to work in your view. But if what is begotten (which means born) of God is God, then tell me, according to Joh 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God," are saved humans God?
@msm1876 Here's the problem. You're equivocating on the term God. If my father begats me, then I'm not ontologically my father. You say there is one God. The Father is the one God. No one is denying that Jesus is unique. But Son of God doesn't mean God. Ask R.C. Sproul. He'll tell you in his latest podcast. Why isn't he God? Because there is only one true God (one who is immortal, invisible, infinite, self-existent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.) There are many men.
@msm1876 The Greek term "theos" can be and is often used qualitatively. In Greek saying "God" is different than saying "the God." That's much different than our usage of language. So, no. Ireneus, "He who formed the world (for the world is of all), He who fashioned man, He [who] is the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, above whom there is no other God, nor initial principle, nor power, nor pleroma, He IS the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..."
So we can say "Jesus is God" but mean he's not the Father! Irenaeus could say "what is begotten from Theos (the Father) is theos (Deity).
And thanks for posting that Ire quote. Just shows that in the post apostolic age, people could speak that way about the One True God (the Father), yet acknowledge Jesus' Deity too. Ire said Jesus was God, enternally existed with Him, could be called "God" and "Lord" b/c he was not made.
@msm1876 John said the word was God. The baby that was born of Mary was named Jesus. But when you say Jesus is God, you mean Yahweh, correct? You equivocate terms to make an argument appear sound. It's a farce. No apostle would call Jesus Yahweh. If Jesus eternally existed, he would have no source. Heb 2:11 "For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers," You can't be uncreated and have a source. cont...
@msm1876 Peter says Jesus is called Lord because the God of their fathers made him Lord in Acts 2. Paul agrees in Acts 13. Nowhere do they say Yahweh became a man, nor is Jesus ever called Yahweh, the Most High God. when you say God that's what you mean, a coequal, coeternal person with the Father who Jesus and Paul say is greater than all. Your doctrine voids God's word and therefore you sparsely use the Bible for your doctrine and really heavily on outside sources. cont...
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Nowhere do they say Yahweh became a man, nor is Jesus ever called Yahweh, the Most High God.
Go to the LXX online and read Psalm 102:25. See where the Psalmist calls God "Lord?" What does he mean by that? Think he's just saying "Sir?"
Why did the author of Hebrews say that the Father calls the Son "Lord" the exact same way the psalmist does in Heb 1:10...and then say he created all things, and is immutable...just the same way the Father is in Psalm102?
@msm1876 If God is immutable, why do you incessantly say he mutated? Jesus has been made Lord. It doesn't mean he is Lord ontologically. Who made Yahweh Lord?
@msm1876 Also, your interpretation of Hebrews 1:10 is not consistent with the rest of the Scripture, so it cannot be true. Even Ire would disagree with you! cont..
@msm1876 "It is proper, then, that I should begin with the first and most important rule, that is, God the Creator, who made the heaven and the earth, and all things that are in it...to demonstrate that there is nothing either above Him or after Him, nor that, influenced by any one, but of His own free will, He created all things, since He is the Only God, the Only Lord, the Only Creator, the Only Father, Alone containing all things, and Himself commanding all things into existence." - Your boy.
@SopaterTheBerean Irenaeus is saying that in contrast to Gnostic doctrines that have a Demiurge and 7 angels making all things. Only the Father, not the Demiurge and the Angels. I harken back to his earlier quote:
It was not angels, therefore, who made us.... For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things...(Against Heresies 4:20:1).
@SopaterTheBerean Putting this aside, what is the proper interp of Heb 1:10? WHy does the Father call the Son Lord...and why is it for a different reason than the Psalmist calling God "Lord" in Ps 102:25?
And about Jesus being "made" Lord and Christ by God...poeio has quite a few meanings...Like John 8:53 where the Jews ask Jesus who He "makes himself out to be?" It very much can mean to declare something of someone.
@msm1876 Except that interpretation doesn't line up with Jesus being given authority. Yahweh isn't given authority, nor does he inherit anything, as He is possessor of all things inherently. Jesus is God's Son and inherits. It's really that simple. So simple a child can understand.
@msm1876 You won't convince me by posting early church fathers, because 1.)you can't prove the way you interpret their words are correct 2.)we are warned that heresies would come from within and 3.)Paul was earlier than them all and he was an apostle, but most importantly, Jesus is my Teacher and I believe what he says foremost. Your doctrine adds to and distorts the word of God. It's not explained in Scripture, (not even a single verse!) but people are anathamatized for not believing it.
@msm1876 Btw, if you want to call the risen Christ deity, go ahead. He is deified. Just be willing to say, if you want to say the risen Jesus is Yahweh/God, then we are Yahweh/God, too, because he is the firstborn among many brethren. And we will share his image. If being the image of God means being Yahweh, then we will be Yahweh. If the fullness of God dwelling in him means he is Yahweh, then we will be Yahweh.
Jesus is eternally God by very nature who took on the nature of a human being (Phil 2:5-7). When he took on the nature of a human being, he did not relinquish his divine nature. Jesus is both FULLY GOD and FULLY MAN and possesses attributes of both God and Man. He is not half man and half God. As Man, his body could succumb to death, but as God, he conquered death.
@msm1876 And no one is denying that Jesus' generation is from the Father. Luke 1:35. This is why he is called the Son of God. Not God. Son of God (The Father is God.) 1Th 1:9-10 "For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." Col 1:3, Joh 17:3, 20:17 among a host of others.
@SopaterTheBerean Problem is...no one in the early Church saw the Christ's generation the way you are expressing it; they either saw it as an eternal one, or one where the eternally existing Logos came forth from God at the World's Foundation and became the Son. You've quite a case to make that the apostolic teaching was that Christ's generation only began to occur at his incarnation.
@SopaterTheBerean 2) No need to disrespectfully "lol." You're the one defending a heresy that God couldn't be bothered to keep alive for centuries, not me. If I was in your shoes, I'd be ANYTHING but cocky.
But feel free to live under the delusion that the Christological belief that was believed even by apostolic students, and has stayed more than viable over the millenia is a soul damning heresy. If so, I'm looking forward to seeing Ignatius of Antioch in hell when I get there.
@msm1876 I'm saying what the Bible says. That's why I can back up everything I say with Scripture. As demonstrated in many different video comments sections, Trinitarians cannot. It's because the doctrine is of man and not of God. I'm not cocky, but I am confident. Confident in the Scripture alone as sufficient for truth. I don't need man's words added to it. I don't think you'd be consistent and say salvation by grace alone was dead for centuries. Or was there ever a need for reform?
@SopaterTheBerean >>>I don't think you'd be consistent and say salvation by grace alone was dead for centuries.
I don't think a person must believe the Reformed mechanism of Sola Fide to be a true Christian. Tons of Christians thru the centuries believed works were involved...I doubt they were tossed into hell.
He's *trying* to distinguish between the human nature and divine nature, but fails because he says "Jesus is not God according to his human nature," as if to say "Jesus" as a person is not God. A better way to put it that doesn't smack of heresy is "Jesus' human nature is not divine." I see what he's trying to do, but this guy, as I remember, has a tendency to try to be cleverer than his abilities and knocks himself out.
Have fun, brother. :) And the Lord be with you in correcting this heretic.
lol! after he got done speaking 'WHAT?!' was exactly what I said. lol great intro!
sldeyo 1 month ago
Hey! You're back, and laying the smack down on heresy once again I see!
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
zmode82 2 months ago
Yo Mark, dude, you're boring now days. You know why. =P
TheGenuineChristian 2 months ago
And we must all surmise that you would necessarily confess the theotokos doctrine, that Mary is the Mother of God. Correct?
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@TheTrinityDelusion Yes I do. But that's a different docttr\ne all together. The reason I find it hard to believe that you were ever a trinitarian is because of the above example. I will explain in my next video. I'm on vacation this week so I will find time.
October31st1517 2 months ago
@October31st1517
This should be interesting. In your video, you could perhaps explain to everyone how it is that God the Son's God is God the Father and the 2nd person of the Trinity was hanging dead on the cross.
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago
You also seem to be implying that God the Son's God is God the Father. You might want to think about that a wee bit friend.
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
It is quite easy to get to the root of this matter.
Was the 2nd Person of the Trinity hanging dead on the cross? Yes or No.
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@BauerPower247 "In order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father".
To receive this "honor" Jesus had to be given something by the Father.
Vs 22 " He (God, Father) has Given all Judgment to the Son"
This does not make the Father and his Son equal,
As the Fathers representative, the deserved "honor" that Jesus receives "honors" the Father.
Honestly, if you were observing this exchange between Jesus and the Jews you could not possibly come away with idea that they were equals
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1
Look at Phil 2:6 - Jesus had always had the Honour. He was by very nature God. But he humbled himself and made himself in the likeness of man. How could he have humbled himself if he was not in a position of exaltation in the first place? It is because of his humbled lowly position and his obedience till death that God had exalted him. Jesus always had the glory of God though prior to the incarnation (John 17:5).
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@BauerPower247 Vs 20 " The Father loves the Son, and SHOWS him all the things He Himself is doing"
Would God, The Godman, or an equal need to be shown anything?
Vs 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has GIVEN all judgment to the Son"
Vs 26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He GAVE to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He GAVE HIM AUTHORITY to execute judgment"
Jesus had to be GIVEN authority, had to have life in himself GIVEN to him.
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1
As per verse 22 - the "judgement seat of Christ" and "the judgement seat of God" are used syonomously in scripture. The new testament still affirms that God is judge of all.
V 26 - Yes. Jesus was both fully God and fully man. As a man, he was just as dependant on God as any other man was. As man, he lived because of the Father, but as God, we all live because of him. He sustains all things Col (1:17).
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@steveparadise1
Lastly, I should note that John 5:18 to John 5:22 should not be read in isolation from the context. Jesus said that just like his Father, he was also working. The Jews understood well that ONLY GOD works on the Sabbath to sustain everything.
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@BauerPower247 The accusation is that Jesus was "making himself equal to God"
Are you suggesting that the following verses signify equality with the Son and God?
Vs 19"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner." NASB
Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1
"Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
What does it have to do with equality or inferiority at all? Jesus was making the point that him and the Father are in perfect unity." The fact that Jesus does only what the Father does would strongly imply his deity don't you think? Can you name one person that can say that they do only what they see the Heavenly Father do?
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@steveparadise1
Also, in your interpretation of john 5:19 and what follows,you are reading in something that is inconsistent with what John had stated in John 5:18. John did not say that the Jews sought more to kill him becasue he was calling God his own Father [which they mistakenly perceived him to be] making himself equal with God.
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@steveparadise1
"Does that sound like equals? "the Son can do nothing of himself" and "UNLESS it is something he sees the Father doing"
"...so that all may honour the son JUST AS they honour the Father." That sure sounds more like it speaks to equality with God then Jesus affirmation that he can do only what he sees the Father do.
BauerPower247 1 month ago
@October31st1517 The Jews were wrong to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. They were wrong to accuse Jesus of blasphemy for stating the truth that God was his Father.
To use the this verse to support the "Godman" you are siding with the twisted Jews who wanted to kill our Lord, and completely ignore Jesus reply which clearly states he is nowhere close to being equal to God.
The false reasoning of the Jewish religious leaders should not be the basis of a Christians belief
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1
"...completely ignore Jesus reply which clearly states he is nowhere close to being equal to God."
Please explain this. I have looked this passage over in its entire context and cannot find anwhere that insinuates Jesus is "nowhere close to being equal to God." I cannot see this anywhere in Jesus's own reply. In fact Jesus goes on to say that judgement has been entrusted to him so that all may honour the Son JUST AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER.
BauerPower247 2 months ago
@October31st1517 These are the same men Jesus condemned for their teachings.
Of the 2 accusations Jesus responded to the 2nd "making himself equal with God"
Vs 19 "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing;"
Vs20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@october31st1517 When the Jews catch up with Jesus he is in the middle of a discourse where they heard him say that God was his Father. Now they really want to kill him for in their opinion that statement by Jesus makes him Gods equal.
Does it?
The first reason they want him dead is breaking the Sabbath Law. Did Jesus break the Sabbath?
Absolutely not. If he did, Jesus would have sinned, his sacrifice would be void and salvation would be beyond us.
He broke their warped view of the Law
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@October31st1517 You have chosen as a verse to back up your belief that Jesus was "The Godman John 5:18 where the Jews ( religious leaders) said
"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." You reason " So calling God his Father makes him equal to WHO ?".
Jesus cures a man who has been ill on the Sabbath for this the Jews want to kill him
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@October31st1517 You are assuming that when Jesus refers to himself as "The Son of God" he is really meaning "God the Son"
Your idea of the Godman is unscriptural.
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1 No ASSUMPTION on my part at all. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." So calling God His Father makes Him equal with WHO?
October31st1517 2 months ago
Comment removed
TheSavioursServant 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@October31st1517 Jesus many times called himself "Son of Man". In doing so he emphasised that he truly was a man, flesh and blood, and did not just materialise a body like angels had done in the past.
The bible speaks of many " Sons of God". Angels and Adam for instance. Jesus is truly a "Son of God" but in a superior and unique way.
Is not the "hypostatic union" Jesus "The Man" and Jesus "The God" ? The God/Man. As opposed to Jesus "man" and "Son of God"
Unscriptural
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1 Your answers contradict themselves. You are correct when you say that Son of Man means that whatever it takes to be human, Jesus has it. So likewise when Jesus calls Himself THE Son of God, whatever it takes to be God, Jesus has it. Also your explaination of the hypostatic union is incorrect. Jesus the Man? Jesus the God? You cannot seperate the natures of Christ. That would be heretical Jesus was the Godman.
October31st1517 2 months ago
@October31st1517
You cannot separate the natures of Christ? So Christ was dead according to both natures? Or do you separate them for your convenience's sake?
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
This has been flagged as spam show
@steveparadise1 His idea of the the Logos is not even Trinitarian. But he doesn't quite realize that yet.
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
What this guy says is true enough. Never mind when Jesus was on earth.
He has never been GOD, and never will be God. Do you guys own a bible ?
steveparadise1 2 months ago
@steveparadise1 Question 1- What does the term Son of Man mean?
Question 2-What does the term Son of God mean?
October31st1517 2 months ago
@October31st1517
Son of man means son of a human being.
Son of God means son of the Father.
TheTrinityDelusion 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Mr Irrefutable here. This video is so a month ago. =)
TheGenuineChristian 2 months ago
@TheGenuineChristian YURI!!!!! What's goin' on man. I promise to get to it as soon as possible. Please keep me on my toes.
October31st1517 2 months ago
@October31st1517 EXC ! Well exposed !
This WOLF called: TheSavioursServant / TheTrinityDelusion & whatever other clones he has is spreading his POISON everywhere. He used to be called stumblinservat about a year ago.
He claims that when Jesus was on this earth he was only a man & was not God. HERESY !
What about John 10:30, John 1:13; Mark 2:26 etc ? I'm sure he'll twist them as well. Doesn't he know about the Hypostatic Union ?
He is antichrist !
Romans1014Preach 2 months ago
ROTFL, I love it!
fruitofspirit 3 months ago
"Even in Trinitarian doctrine, the man Jesus Christ is not God." I don't wanna live on this planet anymore...jk but where do people get this?? eh
blakodeel 3 months ago
How did I get un-subbed from your channel? Glad to see someone answering this guy.... Love ya bro
21crosscheck21 3 months ago
oops, that should have been, daafith, my other youtube account
thecdhope 3 months ago
@thecdhope Brother David. How have you and the Mrs. Been? I really miss you.
October31st1517 3 months ago
@October31st1517 Yeah, it's been too long ago since we talked. Stopped making videos and posting comments. But I will post a video shortly with an update.
thecdhope 3 months ago
I think he is not well informed, to put it mildly. (daaith)
thecdhope 3 months ago
Those are just a few of the many quotes. My hope is all will not be slaves of the spirit of fear that surrounds the Trinitarian doctrine and will seek the simple, powerful truth from Scripture. I pray all will listen to him and not any men who make God's word confusing. Jesus came to reveal God and never claimed to be Yahweh nor spoke of a "triune God" (a post-apostolic development). Neither did the Apostles. The dilemma is the Trini's. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal!
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean 2Cr 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by(ek out of) the power of God.. "The glorified Jesus lives out of God's power he has a source. The Father is the only source he hasn't a source to live by it, he upholds his son and all things through his son, he is before his son and all things. There was no one before or after the one, he was all that was, for there was nothing only the one, who is the only source.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
"All the other expressions likewise bring out the title of One and the same being; as, for example, The Lord of Powers, The Father of all, God Almighty, The Most High, The Creator, The Maker, and such like. These are not the names and titles of a succession of different beings, but of One and the same, by means of which the One God and Father is revealed, He who contains all things, and grants to all the privilege of existence. "(II, 35). Jesus lives b/c of the Father. Heb 2:11, John 6:57
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
"By calling upon Him, even before the coming of our Lord, men were saved both from most wicked spirits, and from all kinds of demons, and from every sort of apostate power." (Book II, 6). Notice the One who is called the God of Israel in previous Ire quotes is called the One God, Most High, and Almighty. This is none other than the Father, who was called upon BEFORE THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS and men were saved. Here's another... cont.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
" Wherefore, although "no one knows the Father, except the Son, nor the Son except the Father, and those to whom the Son will reveal Him," yet all do know this one fact at least, because reason, implanted in their minds, moves them, and shows to them that there is One God, the Lord of all. And because of this, all things have been put under the His influence who is called the Most High, and the Almighty.... cont.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
I want to post some Irenaeus quotes to show that he was clearly not Trinitarian, for anyone reading. Yes, even in light of those quotes. The method of selective quoting used by Trinitarians does not prove anything, but in the entirety of Irenaeus' works it is clearly expressed that he saw the Father as the one God and Almighty. I'm sure all are aware that a quote taken out of context is pretext. In my studies (I'm a former Trinitarian) I found the Trini proof texts often to be out of context.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@Proverbs1533 Bible teaches that there is one God/creator/source so when Jesus died on the cross who upheld all things? Can an eternal God have a source and still hold eternality?
That's unbiblical-----} the Father is the only true God, as also Christ is the only true God and as the Spirit is the only true God.
That's three only true Gods<--It's called Babylon(Confusion).
God Bless.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@Proverbs1533 Said: My second question would be if Christ were God would he become less than God if He took on flesh? "Answer: You're saying if Jesus were the eternal God would he become less than the eternal God if he took on flesh, the eternal God can't become less/inferior his eternality is constant/unchanging and he isn't a creation nor part of it.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@msm1876 I'm not going to go round and round with you with Hebrews because you've heard it before, you just don't agree. But it all hinges on how God who you do agree is immutable could have mutated. Don't gloss over that inconsistency and contradiction. God expressly distinguishes himself as Spirit and not flesh, and the Spirit is distinguished from flesh throughout Scripture. The word became flesh, NOT "put on flesh," as made clear in 1John 1 in response to antichrist doctrine.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean You're Crushing M&M1876 it's because you know the truth.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@CristoYcruz And the truth sets you free... free from the condemnation and chains of men. All I have I have received by the grace of God. Sight is a gift, I have never been worthy to see the truth. God just graciously opened my eyes to the powerful simplicity of His truth. There's no need to add anything to it.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean Yes, Jesus is the truth, way, and life.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@msm1876 We can go around and around but when you read Irenaeus it's clear he sees the Father as the only Almighty, the one true God and does not see Jesus the same way. That's why I interpret irenaeus in light of what the scriptures teach, not what men who came later proposed.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Irenaeus it's clear he sees the Father as the only Almighty, the one true God and does not see Jesus the same way.
In light of all of those quotes??? You've got to be kidding me.
Look, it's been nice talking to you. Take care.
msm1876 3 months ago
Another thing to add, wish comments could be a tad longer... At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology. There were no Trinitarians in the early church. Trini scholars even admit the doctrine is not expressly taught in the Scripture. In other words, it's not Biblical!
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology
so that He indeed who made all things can alone, together with His Word, properly be termed God and Lord: but the things which have been made cannot have this term applied to them- AH, Bk 3, ch. 8, sec3
But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father...AH Bk2, ch30, sec 9
msm1876 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology
Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King... AH 1:10:1
For with Him were ALWAYS PRESENT the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; " [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1).
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 There's a four person Godhead? Father , Word, Wisdom, Spirit???
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>At the very least, Irenaeaus was not Trinitarian, but Arian in his Christology.
"'...and the Word was God,' of course, for that which is begotten of God is God." (Against Heresies, Book I, ch. 8, section 5)
"Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spake to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers." (Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 5, section 2)
msm1876 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Trini scholars even admit the doctrine is not expressly taught in the Scripture
Yes, the HOWS are not there, ie how there is One God, yet 3 persons who are God. The THATS **are** there. THAT one God exists as 3 persons **IS** Christ's deity is there. Wanna talk John 8:56-58?
The Holy Spirit's personality/deity are there. Acts 13:2, perhaps?
msm1876 3 months ago
Looking forward to seeing this vid, brother.
vekl 3 months ago
@October31st1517 We also have two natures like Jesus human and divine that doesn't make Us nor Jesus equal/same with our Father, God. Remember We and Jesus have the same Father and God.
Jesus nor the Jews never believed/worshiped a triune God they believed/worshiped one God their Father from where do you get three Gods in One God?
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@msm1876 ThA man Jesus Christ is NOT god heheheh!!! Mr. KEL blocked me cause he couldn't handle the truth at least with you I had more freedom of speech I believe Mr. Kel is just another wanna be.
Why no mooo God vidoes? You where the greatest debaterrr I have ever known Juniooor?
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
And I hope all of you realize that begotten/born means to be brought into existence...
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SopaterTheBerean >>>begotten/born means to be brought into existence
That's why the nicene creed expresses Christ as being "begotten, not made?" That why dozens of Church Fathers expressed Christ as being begotten of the Father, yet affirming him to be true Deity??
msm1876 3 months ago
Awesome! Glad to see you back making vids my Friend...You have been missed...
r8escjohn 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You would honor the Son by listening to what he says, not voiding what he says. Where's the Bible teaching for the hypostatic union? Not an inference, but an explanation if it is so important to know. If the man Jesus was God, then God died, but God cannot die, according to the Scriptures. "As I live..." God swears by his existence. If God died, then you can throw your Bible and all of it's promises in the trash.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
Comment removed
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
LOVED IT!!! Glad to see you back making videos Mark!!!
BauerPower247 3 months ago
Heretic of the month of November? Hi mark ;)
EastGateShut 3 months ago
YYYAAAAYYYYYYY YOUR BACK!!!!!! I so look forward to your video's Mark! As to the video... I felt scared for the guy as he kept saying "Jesus is not God" wow..
TulipWife 3 months ago
sounds a bit Nestorian to me
celal777 3 months ago
@celal777 Uh.....Ya think? LOL!
October31st1517 3 months ago
@celal777 My thoughts SO exactly! This guy is a veritable potpouri of heresies!
msm1876 3 months ago
Judging by previous attempts that probably how far your video will go - no real content.
dunklaw 3 months ago
SAAAAAAAAAAAAY WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??!?!?!?!?!?!? LOL
prchdaword 3 months ago
@october31st1517 Love the intro. I really have enjoyed your videos over the years. How have you been?
FATToney12 3 months ago
Well it's about time! :D
TheSpurgeonist 3 months ago
can you turn the cowbell up in the intro to the song?
Super4wesomeGreat 3 months ago
there was NOTHING in that statement that was ANTICHRIST, but eh, I gess you TRINITARIAN CULTISTS, don't care what the Bible calls an anti-christ.
Mencel89 3 months ago
@Mencel89 The point is he misrepresented the Christian position. He is claiming that we are dividing the natures of Christ. Do you honor the the Son JUST AS you honor the Father?
October31st1517 3 months ago
@October31st1517 Ignoring the context, as usual. As a believer in sovereign grace, I see others pride themselves in taking passages in context when it comes to soteriology, but no consistency when it comes to God and Christ revealed in Scripture. For context read Joh 5:19 where Jesus says he can do nothing of his own through verse 26 where Jesus says he lives because of the Father (i.e. not self-existent.) Therefore we conclude the honor is not in Jesus being Yahweh ontologically.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean
"For context read Joh 5:19 where Jesus says he can do nothing of his own..." The context actually begins much earlier than John 5:19. If you read John 5:18, the Jews clearly understood the fact that when Jesus called God his own Father, he was making himself EQUAL WITH GOD." This is the backdrop through which John 5:19 ff. should be understood. Remember that God has no equal (Isaiah 40:25).
BauerPower247 3 months ago
@BauerPower247 The text also said he was breaking the Sabbath. It's called falsely accusing as shown by jesus' response. It's really not that difficult. God alone possesses immortality. Read and hear this: 1Ti 1:17 To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, THE ONLY GOD, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. The only God is immortal and invisible. Who is this? Compare with 1Ti 6:15-16 Who is Paul talking about? Compare with 1Joh 4:12-21. God is the Father. Jesus is his Son.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean
As for the fact that God cannot die...
Let us examine Christ's own words: "and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? (John 11:26)" Onew could make the same arguments about John the Babtist, Stephen and Lazarus. They certainly believed in Jesus. Did they die? YES. obviously when scripture says that God cannot die, it is not refering to a temporal physical death, but an eternal spiritual death. continued...
BauerPower247 3 months ago
@October31st1517 How did and does Jesus honor his Father? And how do you honor the Father? Is the Father your only God as Jesus only God is his Father? How many natures does God the Father have? For Jesus to be equal/same with his Father, God, Jesus has to be a spirit like his Father who is immutable.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
@CristoYcruz Most humbly the Father is the only true God, as also Christ is the only true God and as the Spirit is the only true God. You said "For Jesus to be equal/same with his Father, God, Jesus has to be a spirit like his Father who is immutable" My first question is do you believe that God can become flesh? My second question would be if Christ were God would he become less than God if He took on flesh?
Proverbs1533 3 months ago
@Proverbs1533 Said: My first question is do you believe that God can become flesh? "Answer: It depends on what God you're referring too, the only God, the Father, alone is immutable, he can't become flesh. Bible is clear, the only God sent his only son to become like one of us, Jesus said his God is a spirit.
CristoYcruz 3 months ago
Comment removed
martin10921 3 months ago
@Mencel89 What?
martin10921 3 months ago
god bless you bro we miss you we would love to see more new videos great to have you back.
thorthor42 3 months ago
This guy is lost without a map concerning what the Hypostatic Union is. Jesus is a PERSON who is GOD...and a PERSON who is HUMAN. He tried his sleight of hand wordplay concerning this topic on a recent video I did and got it thrown right back in his face. See the comments section
all_comments?v=acQjHoa60I8
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 Nice job of tooting your own horn as usual, but I actually think you got owned in logic right there. If Jesus is one person, and one person died, and Jesus is God, then you have to say God died. Whatever death is, God can't do it. But you say that flesh isn't really Jesus/Son of God, but that it housed Jesus. That is exactly the antichrist doctrine the Apostle John fought against.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>tooting your own horn as usual,
Charming ad hominem...
>>If Jesus is one person, and one person died, and Jesus is God, then you have to say God died.
A person who was God died. The DEITY that MADE THAT PERSON GOD did not.
Feel free to use this "dillema" to make you feel better about being a Socinian, or an Arian, or whatever you are, but know that God could have cared less about either or these "truths" that he let them perish and stay dead for centuries.
msm1876 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>That is exactly the antichrist doctrine...
You're serious?? John was railing against people who denied that Jesus came in the flesh at all!
Strange that people John mentored and wrote against those same heretics, like Ignatius of Antioch, had no problem with the fact that Jesus CHrist was indeed uncreated deity in flesh.
There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made...even Jesus Christ our Lord. (Ephesians 7)
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 That isn't an ad hom. Is the Deity identical with that person or do we have two people? Do you even comprehend what you are saying? These truths have not perished, btw, but majority never, ever, validates truth. The anti-Christ doctrine is not denying that Jesus was a man. It's denying that the flesh is the Messiah. That's why he said we "handled" the word in 1 John. You say the Word is God the Son who didn't die. John says that flesh that died was the word, the Christ.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>These truths have not perished, btw,
Sure they did. Prove me wrong by naming an Arian from the 900s. Or a Socinian from the 900s, for that matter.
>>>Ignatius' writings was tampered
I was waiting for you to say this. Why would a later Trinitarian put heterodox language in the man's mouth? The Greek is "Generato kai agenerato." Dogma would later express Christ's uncreated state as being eternally generated from the Father. This was not a tampering.
cont
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 I'll prove you wrong using Scripture alone. Can you do the same? If so why resort constantly to extra biblical writings?
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>If so why resort constantly to extra biblical writings?
To show how historically bankrupt your belief is. If the apostles taught what you believe, and meant what you're saying they meant, well wouldn't SOMEONE believe it in the post apostolic church?? Other than the ebionites? And wouldn't God bother to keep it alive for all to believe it for centuries??
I'll hit you with a dillema based on scripture and history to show you that whatever you believe, it's not truth.
msm1876 3 months ago
@Sopater Here's the dillema. In Mt 13:30, Jesus said true Christians and fakes would be in the world until he returned. Translation? True Christians would ALWAYS be on earth. ALWAYS.
1) I can name a Trinitarian from the 1200s...St. Francis of Assisi.
2) Can you name a Unitarian from that time...without arguing from silence?
3) If you can't name someone who believed something that you hold as absolute orthodoxy from all times in Xtian history...are you sure it's not a false belief?
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 No dilemma at all. I get my truth from Scripture alone. Paul, nor any of the apostles were Trinitarian. The dilemma is yours. Even Tertullian who first used the term Trinity believed there was a time when the Son did not exist. So even he wasn't Trini as used in the modern sense. There have always been believers who believed the Father was God alone. The truth doesn't hinge on my ability to name someone from every era. Jesus says my God and his God is his Father. I follow him.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Even Tertullian who first used the term Trinity believed there was a time when the Son did not exist.
Tertullian was a two phase Logos guy. He didn't mean that in an Arian sense. He says Christ's deity comes from "unborn" substance in "The Flesh of CHrist" ch 6.
>>>There have always been believers who believed the Father was God alone
Who, from the 1200s, then? Without saying "well, I'm sure there was someone."
msm1876 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@msm1876
My last reply was actually for SopaterTheBerean. I mistakenly replied to you. :)
BauerPower247 3 months ago
@msm1876 Trinitarianism is speaking out of both sides of your mouth constantly. You rail about Nestorianism separating the two natures and then what do you do at the cross? You separate the two natures, saying one was dead and the other wasn't. God had to die but God didn't die. Ignatius' writings was tampered with and it's demonstrable but that quote isn't limited to your interpretation. How about the Ephesians we should quote like Eph 4:6.... cont...
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. This is who Jesus says is his Father and our Father in John 20:17. Plain words. Easy to understand. Voided by Trinitarian dogma. People who call Jesus their Lord are constantly adding to or twisting the text instead of just believing what he says. They'd rather believe their superstar famous men, or these super apostles....
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@Sopater cont. Eph 4. Yes, the Father is the 1 God. And the Sun at the center of the Solar System is the 1 Sun. But that One Sun has produced rays and heat by it's very nature, as long as it has existed. And that One God has been pouring His being into his Son as long as He has existed, too...and his Spirit has been proceeding from Him as long as he has existed.
All you're doing is grabbing texts to prop up heresies that croaked centuries ago...and now wander the earth as undead zombies.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 There's only one sun? lol. This is a typical response. No Scripture to refute anything. Are you Sola Scriptura? According to Jesus, the Father is a person, because he referred to him as He. So then, the one God would be one person, according to Jesus, right?
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>So then, the one God would be one person, according to Jesus, right?
I really have no problem with that. It's just that One Person Begets a Son...and as man begets man, horse begets horse, and cow begets cow, "what is Begotten of God is God." Irenaeus' words, not mine, BTW. If you have a problem with that, please speak to the guy mentored by the guy mentored by John. None of your "God is one one person" proof texts deny Christ's generation from the Father.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 "What is begotten of God is God." When man begets a son, he begets a different man. When God begats a son, in following suit, then that would be a different God. You have to equivocate terms for it to work in your view. But if what is begotten (which means born) of God is God, then tell me, according to Joh 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God," are saved humans God?
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>When man begets a son, he begets a different man.
Yes, but a man who is ONTOLOGICALLY HUMAN.
>>>When God begats a son, in following suit, then that would be a different God.
Different person, but one who is ONTOLOGICALLY God.
>>>are saved humans God?
God re-generates fallen man...Jesus is his Menogenes Son...Unique, one of a kind...completely different from those God adopts.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 Here's the problem. You're equivocating on the term God. If my father begats me, then I'm not ontologically my father. You say there is one God. The Father is the one God. No one is denying that Jesus is unique. But Son of God doesn't mean God. Ask R.C. Sproul. He'll tell you in his latest podcast. Why isn't he God? Because there is only one true God (one who is immortal, invisible, infinite, self-existent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.) There are many men.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>You're equivocating on the term God.
So was Irenaeus. So was John! "The word was with God, and the word was God," anyone?
>>>If my father begats me, then I'm not ontologically my father.
Again...you are as **HUMAN** as he is! And Jesus is as much Deity as the Father is by virtue of his generation!
>>>Because there is only one true God
Again no one is denying this...the problem is for you that one true God brings forth a Son. Take care, I'm off to bed.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 The Greek term "theos" can be and is often used qualitatively. In Greek saying "God" is different than saying "the God." That's much different than our usage of language. So, no. Ireneus, "He who formed the world (for the world is of all), He who fashioned man, He [who] is the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, above whom there is no other God, nor initial principle, nor power, nor pleroma, He IS the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..."
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>The Greek term "theos"...used qualitatively
So we can say "Jesus is God" but mean he's not the Father! Irenaeus could say "what is begotten from Theos (the Father) is theos (Deity).
And thanks for posting that Ire quote. Just shows that in the post apostolic age, people could speak that way about the One True God (the Father), yet acknowledge Jesus' Deity too. Ire said Jesus was God, enternally existed with Him, could be called "God" and "Lord" b/c he was not made.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 John said the word was God. The baby that was born of Mary was named Jesus. But when you say Jesus is God, you mean Yahweh, correct? You equivocate terms to make an argument appear sound. It's a farce. No apostle would call Jesus Yahweh. If Jesus eternally existed, he would have no source. Heb 2:11 "For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers," You can't be uncreated and have a source. cont...
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 Peter says Jesus is called Lord because the God of their fathers made him Lord in Acts 2. Paul agrees in Acts 13. Nowhere do they say Yahweh became a man, nor is Jesus ever called Yahweh, the Most High God. when you say God that's what you mean, a coequal, coeternal person with the Father who Jesus and Paul say is greater than all. Your doctrine voids God's word and therefore you sparsely use the Bible for your doctrine and really heavily on outside sources. cont...
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>Nowhere do they say Yahweh became a man, nor is Jesus ever called Yahweh, the Most High God.
Go to the LXX online and read Psalm 102:25. See where the Psalmist calls God "Lord?" What does he mean by that? Think he's just saying "Sir?"
Why did the author of Hebrews say that the Father calls the Son "Lord" the exact same way the psalmist does in Heb 1:10...and then say he created all things, and is immutable...just the same way the Father is in Psalm102?
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 If God is immutable, why do you incessantly say he mutated? Jesus has been made Lord. It doesn't mean he is Lord ontologically. Who made Yahweh Lord?
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 Also, your interpretation of Hebrews 1:10 is not consistent with the rest of the Scripture, so it cannot be true. Even Ire would disagree with you! cont..
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 "It is proper, then, that I should begin with the first and most important rule, that is, God the Creator, who made the heaven and the earth, and all things that are in it...to demonstrate that there is nothing either above Him or after Him, nor that, influenced by any one, but of His own free will, He created all things, since He is the Only God, the Only Lord, the Only Creator, the Only Father, Alone containing all things, and Himself commanding all things into existence." - Your boy.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean Irenaeus is saying that in contrast to Gnostic doctrines that have a Demiurge and 7 angels making all things. Only the Father, not the Demiurge and the Angels. I harken back to his earlier quote:
It was not angels, therefore, who made us.... For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things...(Against Heresies 4:20:1).
msm1876 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean Putting this aside, what is the proper interp of Heb 1:10? WHy does the Father call the Son Lord...and why is it for a different reason than the Psalmist calling God "Lord" in Ps 102:25?
And about Jesus being "made" Lord and Christ by God...poeio has quite a few meanings...Like John 8:53 where the Jews ask Jesus who He "makes himself out to be?" It very much can mean to declare something of someone.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 Except that interpretation doesn't line up with Jesus being given authority. Yahweh isn't given authority, nor does he inherit anything, as He is possessor of all things inherently. Jesus is God's Son and inherits. It's really that simple. So simple a child can understand.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
Comment removed
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 You won't convince me by posting early church fathers, because 1.)you can't prove the way you interpret their words are correct 2.)we are warned that heresies would come from within and 3.)Paul was earlier than them all and he was an apostle, but most importantly, Jesus is my Teacher and I believe what he says foremost. Your doctrine adds to and distorts the word of God. It's not explained in Scripture, (not even a single verse!) but people are anathamatized for not believing it.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876 Btw, if you want to call the risen Christ deity, go ahead. He is deified. Just be willing to say, if you want to say the risen Jesus is Yahweh/God, then we are Yahweh/God, too, because he is the firstborn among many brethren. And we will share his image. If being the image of God means being Yahweh, then we will be Yahweh. If the fullness of God dwelling in him means he is Yahweh, then we will be Yahweh.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@msm1876
Jesus is eternally God by very nature who took on the nature of a human being (Phil 2:5-7). When he took on the nature of a human being, he did not relinquish his divine nature. Jesus is both FULLY GOD and FULLY MAN and possesses attributes of both God and Man. He is not half man and half God. As Man, his body could succumb to death, but as God, he conquered death.
BauerPower247 3 months ago
@BauerPower247 Amen, man...we're on the same team!
msm1876 3 months ago
Comment removed
BauerPower247 3 months ago
@msm1876 And no one is denying that Jesus' generation is from the Father. Luke 1:35. This is why he is called the Son of God. Not God. Son of God (The Father is God.) 1Th 1:9-10 "For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." Col 1:3, Joh 17:3, 20:17 among a host of others.
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean Problem is...no one in the early Church saw the Christ's generation the way you are expressing it; they either saw it as an eternal one, or one where the eternally existing Logos came forth from God at the World's Foundation and became the Son. You've quite a case to make that the apostolic teaching was that Christ's generation only began to occur at his incarnation.
msm1876 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean 2) No need to disrespectfully "lol." You're the one defending a heresy that God couldn't be bothered to keep alive for centuries, not me. If I was in your shoes, I'd be ANYTHING but cocky.
But feel free to live under the delusion that the Christological belief that was believed even by apostolic students, and has stayed more than viable over the millenia is a soul damning heresy. If so, I'm looking forward to seeing Ignatius of Antioch in hell when I get there.
msm1876 3 months ago
@msm1876 I'm saying what the Bible says. That's why I can back up everything I say with Scripture. As demonstrated in many different video comments sections, Trinitarians cannot. It's because the doctrine is of man and not of God. I'm not cocky, but I am confident. Confident in the Scripture alone as sufficient for truth. I don't need man's words added to it. I don't think you'd be consistent and say salvation by grace alone was dead for centuries. Or was there ever a need for reform?
SopaterTheBerean 3 months ago
@SopaterTheBerean >>>I don't think you'd be consistent and say salvation by grace alone was dead for centuries.
I don't think a person must believe the Reformed mechanism of Sola Fide to be a true Christian. Tons of Christians thru the centuries believed works were involved...I doubt they were tossed into hell.
msm1876 3 months ago
great to see you back brother!
jtimmis 3 months ago
He's *trying* to distinguish between the human nature and divine nature, but fails because he says "Jesus is not God according to his human nature," as if to say "Jesus" as a person is not God. A better way to put it that doesn't smack of heresy is "Jesus' human nature is not divine." I see what he's trying to do, but this guy, as I remember, has a tendency to try to be cleverer than his abilities and knocks himself out.
Have fun, brother. :) And the Lord be with you in correcting this heretic.
AgApE010 3 months ago 2