David Barton Endorses Sam Brownback

[JonWRowe]

Out of the first five names he recites: John Adams, Samuel Cooper, Jonathan Mayhew, Charles Chauncy and George Whitefield, ONLY WHITEFIELD WAS A TRINITARIAN. The rest of them were theological unitarian-universalists.

[kressink]

Barton says "half those guys were ministers" - such a lie! One was a minister, Barton! Seminary was interchangable with school back then - Barton uses the modern definition to rewrite American history again.

[rfpt2345]

WHAT kressink? You are making pretty strong accusations without presenting one piece of evidence. Why should anyone believe what you say?

[kressink]

If you studied early American history with any open mind, you could so easily see Barton is a complete fraud. The evidence is so VAST only a complete blind, moron need ask for some.

[rfpt2345]

I don't know if Barton is fraudulent or not but that is one lame answer.

[kressink]

Dozens of such incidents are well documented by Chris Rodda. You can read her book, watch her videos, etc.  But a few paragraphs of actually listening to Barton should tip you off. Or try reading the letters between Jefferson and Adams and contrast to Barton.

[Morkindie]

In fact there is a great deal of evidence to indicate that our morals are a result of natural selection. wiki-search Hamilton's rule. There is also a great deal of evidence to suggest that religions teach EVIL.

Don't believe me? Read the bible. ALL of it. There are nice parts, about how not to beat your wife too much, or that you can't stone a virgin that is raped in the field, because she may have cried out. But there a pages upon chapters upon books that espouse torture rape genocide, murder.

[Morkindie]

To leave such an important document almost completely devoid of religious statements would take a conscious effort. This is deliberate. The entries that are made, are the vague diest phrases, that have no relation to any particular religion. These people envisioned a secular government.

Furthermore, their morals were not products of their respective religions. I have seen this argument time and again. There is no evidence that morals have their source in religion of any sort.

[Morkindie]

Many of the founding fathers were christians. This is undisputed. The declaration mentions, "the laws of nature and of nature's god"..."endowed by their creator"..."the supreme judge of the world"..."protection of divine providence"... "and our sacred honor."

The constitution only has this to say about god. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:..."

In 1791, when the amendments were ratified, this would be very conspicuous

[Staff7]

To quote Hitchens"if you believe in a talking snake you will believe anything."

[Bigbeechbum]

Religious propaganda, more lying for jeyzus. It's a waste of time to try to educate, but read a book, please.

[allamericangranny]

Washington once wrote in a letter you must believe in Father son7Holy Spirit to be a true american.

[JonWRowe]

Bullsh!t.

[Whoo69]

who the fuck is this joker?

[annabelleleetoo]

David Barton slaughters and misrepresents American History to further his own religious opinons/beliefs and agenda. He's done untold damage to the Constitution of the United States.

[Marjorillan]

You know it's funny that David Barton or his company "Wallbuilders" owns the largest amount of original text from the founding fathers than anyone else in the america or the world for that fact. 52 of the 55 members who signed the constitution, were all founding members of their churches. Get your facts straight before you start talking next time.

[JonWRowe]

52 out of 55 were NOT orthodox Christians. They were formally or nominally associated with those churches. Many of them, like George Washington were never confirmed or took communion.

[Marjorillan]

Who said taking communion makes you a Christian?

[JonWRowe]

The Deists and Unitarians in the Church were the ones who didn't take communion because they disbelieved in what the act represents: Christ's Atonement.

[OriginalGuest]

Who gives a fuck if they were all Christians? The point is Barton makes quotes up and blurs history to trick people into believing that the Founders wanted America to be a Christian Empire--and their own words dispute this.

[EnemyoftheDevil]

Any dope can come up with an argument like that to make people fear the facts, of course you don't have any evidential argument of your obnoxious claim.

[OriginalGuest]

An argument like what? That that founder didn't intend to make America a Christian Empire? Unless you are saying they developed amnesia and forgot to write it into the constitution, then it's not really an argument, but more of an observation.

Christians like to turn things around, like now, because they can't really prove their Christian Empire theory.

And that's why people like Barton resort to outright lies.

[EnemyoftheDevil]

No you're incorrect, you misunderstand the point. The founders were Christian majority wise. They know it can't be a "Christian" nation because that would defeat the point of American Revolution, and the leave from Great Britain and the Church. But the Constitution was ethically inspired even if secular founders didn't accept the story of Jesus. The point is we are a Republic, not a Democracy, so in fact that we vote in people to protect us, and they to RESPECT OUR RIGHT OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION.

[PubliusAfricanus]

Respecting your right of religious expression does not include turning the United States into a Christian empire, as David Barton believes we should be.

[EnemyoftheDevil]

I agree with you on that. I haven't heard David in a while, or this video. But I think there's a misunderstanding between most Christians and Atheists. I don't think anyone wants to make it a "Christian" empire. But Christians themselves fear that there is an effort of being a freedom from religion, not of it. Especially to Christianity. The common ground tried from Christians is the prevention of a careless Nihilist amoral country.

[KingSportsFan]

FRED THOMPSON for President!

[NuDawgontheblock]

Great Stuff!

[bmf1706]

What is he lying about? Tell me instead of smearing his good name!

[OriginalGuest]

Good name my ass. Try googling his name, there are dozens of websites detailing that loser's lies.

[bmf1706]

There are sites that say George Bush masterminded 9/11! Do you believe that?

[OriginalGuest]

OMG, lol! Good onez@2@@!!!@e!131

There are also sites with detailed accounts of the bible. OMG - do you believe that?

[bmf1706]

With all of my heart I do believe the Bible. but my Religious Prefrence has nothing to do with whether or not you belive Bush orchestrated 9/11. Do you?

[OriginalGuest]

No, and fuck you for trying to deflect the discussion.

If you are really going to cozy up to known liars, fine, but don't pull conspiracy nonsense out of your ass to try and defend it.

[bmf1706]

I'm sorry, I was trying to make a point about those websites. Even you sais it was a good one. I just want you top see my point.

[annabelleleetoo]

Don't take anything Barton posts at his website without a grain of salt. The man is a bonefide liar. The Baptist Joint Committee "outed" him as a liar years ago.

[lcswoosh]

lol. sam brownback. what a joke.

[tkborseth]

I'm curious... what historians do you speak of? The socialist deconstructionists found in many universities today?

And by the way, unitarianism of today is a far cry from what it was in the 1700's. You may want to exercise caution in proclaiming that someone wasn't a Christian when they would have considered themselves such.

[JonWRowe]

The historians who criticize Barton are, at least, actual historians. Unlike Barton, they have PhDs in history.

I know what the unitarianism of the 1700s is as I have meticulously studied and published about it over the past three years. It meant simply that Jesus is not God or the second person in the Trinity. It's something orthodox Christians call heresy, infidelity and otherwise not "real Christianity."

[Marjorillan]

Trinity= Father ,Son and the Holy Spirit. Last time I checked Jesus was the Son of God so that would make him the second person in the trinity.

[JonWRowe]

Yes and over half of the "Christians" Barton mentioned in the first few seconds -- including JOHN ADAMS -- were Unitarians who denied the Trinity or that Jesus was the second person in It.

[kressink]

Exactly. Thanks for stating the obvious.

[OriginalGuest]

If you studied actual history instead taking some old white man's word for it, perhaps you wouldn't have to ask questions and throw out insults. Anyone with a cursory reading of just a few of the founders and their beliefs will see that Barton is full of it.

[OriginalGuest]

Google his name. Everywhere his name comes up, save his own website, the phrase "fake historian" also appears. There's even a website entirely devoted to countering his nonsense.

[bmf1706]

WOW, you're like the plauge. Leave the poor man alone!

[OriginalGuest]

That poor man brings it on himself by blatantly lying to make things fit his agenda. If you Christians are truely good people, you will quit defending liars.

[kressink]

Exactly right. It is amazing people here can line up behind Barton based on an obvious bag of lies. Seems amazing people have to argue for truth and facts...a sign of the times.

[JonWRowe]

Listening to the first 5 seconds of this I spot distortion. First, John Adams was not a Christian and most of the names of "Christians" Barton says Adams cited were not Christians either. Jonathan Mayhew and Charles Chauncy were theological unitarians (they denied the Trinity, didn't believe JC was God) and universalists (thought all would eventually be saved). So was John Adams.

[bmf1706]

Universalist is a christian. Just not the way we think of it!

[kressink]

Ha, ha, what a wonderful world if today's Christians would be trying to take the best of ALL religions ... Jefferson had a term for many of the "modern Christians" defending Barton - fanatics.

[OriginalGuest]

There goes Brownback's hopes. Barton is fraud, and no legitimate historian would have anything to do with him.

[iloveihop2008]

What are you talking about? Barton is a well-known Christian activist and headed up Evangelical outreach for the entire Republican Party.

[OriginalGuest]

I'm aware of what he does. He's also a fraudulent historian who should not be given any legitimacy.