Asians Unite under "Netaji" Subhas Chandra Bose Part 1

[Roshan3L]

britfags the scum on the planet earth together with americans and aussies....may the rest of the world live in peace

[cillantro]

...contd...So I believe the Japanese as a people are not evil unlike someone else and we have to engage with them and other Asians(ASEAN,S.Korea,Taiwan,Au­stralia,NZ) with shared values in order to form a real Asian union of democracy.Our enemies are not the west or middle east,but idealogies.Communism(China,Nor­th Korea) monotheist religion(Middle east,pakistan,Iran and the missionaries) and nations trying to reduce our trade surplus,caused due to their ineptness.Go go go......ASIAN UNION!!!!!

[cillantro]

contd..but even today Elizabeth or any other members of the british or european royal family have not apologised.Nor have their PM's or the American president.The japananese empire was a byproduct of the army and associated political elements taking reins in Japan at the time,not civilian govt or emperor.Whereas British and European/American empires were well planned by their own people,politicians and monarchs to cause chaos and plunder sovereign wealth.The Japanese are most polite as people...

[cillantro]

To all those talking about Japanese atrocities in occupied regions,I agree with you.But I must say they were no more brutal or cruel than any other empire(British,American,Spanis­h etc).They lost the war and the winner writes history as someone correctly said.Thats why in Indian textbooks and movies,Akhbar is a benevolent and "secular" king,while in reality he killed 50,000 hindus for refusing to convert.The Japanese have apologised multiple times(Emperor and Prime ministers) to other asians.....

[ROONEYGIBBS6]

their were many empire but none of them was so much inhuman.

even mongol people used to kill their rivals but in british empire they mock the human values.

signage like dogs and indians not allowed or dogs and browns not allowed. the most shameful empire ever.

[ROONEYGIBBS6]

because our gr8 govt of congress signed a pact with british empire otherwise all of those british officers should be executed.

how can still britain people still handle these monarch and all, take lessons from france both king and queen lynched by huge mob.

[Kra7as]

Indians are not Asian, we're on an American website here so we need to follow the American system which says that Asia is the "far east" only, which consists of Japan, China, S. Korea, N. Korea, Mongolia and Taiwan.

[cillantro]

@Kra7as Okay so you look up to an upstart nation with 400 years of history but not one with a heritage of 9000 years?So what are we grouped as? Europe?!lol!..we are South Asian! Being an asian is not about genetics or geography,because then Japanese should technically be pacific islanders.western classifications are political.Being an Asian is about polytheism,social tolerance,democratic traditions,shared heritage.Thats why,Indians are as asian as Japanese,koreans,thais while china/arabia is not

[Kra7as]

@cillantro

First off I'm not an Indian, I'm middle eastern.

Secondly, the correct definition of an Asian should be anyone from the continent of Asia. And that includes anyone from Russia, India, Bangladesh, China, Israel, Iraq, Korea and about 40 more countries.

If you're going to call us off and tell us that people from the middle east aren't Asians, then maybe you should give us our word back because ASIA is an Iraqi ( Akkadian ) word meaning the east.

[cillantro]

@Kra7as You were using the semetic akkadian language back then and Akadu was ...not arabic right? So does that mean you owe your existence to non-arabic semetic speakers? Does'nt look so by the way you treat them.Besides back then you all(middle easterners) shared the values I just mentioned so you were asian back then,But do you now? go figure.I have nothing against middle easterners or whites or anyone,just defining what an asian really is IMHO.

Asia originated from geerk word Ἀσία FYI...

[Kra7as]

@cillantro

FYI Asia is of IRAQI origin and not Greek. The Greeks used it as a loanword after they had invaded Mesopotamia.

And what are those values you're talking about? the majority of south koreans and japanese are atheists. the majority of filipinos are christian, the majority of indonesians, malaysians and bengalis are muslims. polytheism isn't the predominant religion in asia anymore.

PS I'm neither monotheistic nor polytheistic. I don't even believe in one god so let alone a hundred.

[cillantro]

@Kra7as Well Asians back then did not view themselves as a unified entity.They viewed the world as one.even as you say it,Asia was a word that the invaders and colonists and others christened on the continent,not its own people.They word akkadia was mean to denote only the city-state of akkadia and maybe its vicinity till the med.So it was used to denote the middle east at max.It was a summerian non arab semetic word at most and not Iraqi(Arabic word) in its present form.

[cillantro]

@Kra7as You make the south Koreans and Japanese sound like communists or something.LOL! The thing is asian Dharmic religions such as Buddhism(India,south korea,Japan etc)Hinduism(India,south east asia etc) and Shinto(Japan) accept atheists!! So these people(99%) you mentioned consider themselves as buddhist or shinto atheist.These"religions" require you to follow principles and not neccessarily gods! A person following 100 gods would have no problem in letting you follow yours.That is tolerance!

[cillantro]

@Kra7as Asia is as polytheistic as ever!Even chinese are either confuscianists or Buddhist,mostly both Look you became an atheist,isn't this proof enough? I welcome you to the Asian community ^_^

[Kra7as]

@cillantro

lol ... thanks, I guess.

but one more question. if a european converts to buddhism, does that make him 'asian' too? you say that asia isn't determined by geographic boundaries but rather by cultural and religious ties. Does that mean that a buddhist WHITE BRITISH living in GREENLAND could be asian too?

[cillantro]

@Kra7as That makes him a true Eurasian! Remember christianity like islam is originally a west asian religion exported to Europe for political purposes by the roman empire.Before that they were panthenists and polytheists.Lithuania converted in 1400s! I would suggest they retrace their roots and follow their ancient religion in the case of a white brit,celtic polytheism.That would please their ancestors.

scotland for ex

edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sco­tland/Pagan-Scots-turn-backs-o­n.2327899.jp

[cillantro]

@Kra7as As for answering your question, just take a look at the ISKCON and buddhism followers among whites,numbering tens of thousands worldwide.They are treated as fellow Asians,because as I mentioned before Asians themselves did not coin this term Asia...so genetics or race do not matter.They considered all humanity as one so thats a resounding YES to your question!!!

[SPS148669]

Yet the Asians are viewed as "Western Imperialists" in less devoped countries like South America and Africa! Hypocrites!

[GrandmasterTigerfist]

Bose was agreat leaders and a great uniter

Gandhi was a terrible mistake choice of Indians where indians still today suffer of his wrong doings..

[LoveOfRighteousness]

The Japanese sought only to colonise South East Asia for their own purposes. You look at what they did in Indonesia, they took forced labour. It came to the point where even the PETA leaders wanted to fight Japan for independence.

[LoveOfRighteousness]

I am of course referring only to the Japanese government and most definitely not the people. The wicked crime of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which targeted women and children is unacceptable. I am merely saying that we should not overlook the crimes of the Japanese leaders as well.

[HollyNihon]

Japan galvanized the independence movement in Asia and Africa, and liberated all the oppressed people of the world. The Great East Asia War of Japan was the greatest human revolution. If Japan had not stood up against evil racists UK, US, and Holland, Asia and Africa would still be slaves of UK, France, US, Holland, etc.

Japan destroyed the white supremacy in Asia, as Prime Minister of Malaysia and Presidents of Indonesia said.

[LoveOfRighteousness]

Yes, Japan may have kicked the white supremacists out of Asia, yet are you aware of what they did in places such as Nanking? Furthermore, not everyone was behind Japan when they invaded. While many nostalgics may portray Japanese troops being initially welcomed in places like Indonesia, such sentiment turned sour. It is undeniable that Japan did not pursue the war for altruistic reasons and this is regardless of any benefit obtained. Intention is all very important.

[anoopdada]

i think nethaji's way was the right way for us indians. We should have got our independence by chasing the british out with blood, just like the americans did.

[victor256in]

mao zhe dong killed more chinese during the 'great leap forward' than the figure you quoted.

[heartburn84]

I agree with mydogbiteme in asia its 100% true.But the tide turned when japanese were cruel to filipinos , some malays , koreans , if they would have been more sensible asia would have stood by them!

[rsridhar]

This indian guy is a moron. He is saying Bose was less in politics and more in action and vice versa for Nehru and GAndhij! LOL!

Nehru and GAndhi were very much into action. Latter mobilized the masses thr' satyagraha.

Bose was a patriot but went the wrong way. You cannot side with devil even if your cause is just. Nazi Germany was evil, so was Japanese Imperialism. Bose wanted to defeat Britain by taking help from Germany. That was naieve.

Sridhar

[victor256in]

winston churchill himself said that if i need to side with the devil to defeat the nazis. he also said one more thing- history is written by the winner. so the axis powers wouldn't have been evil if they won, because they would have written your history books.

[hornybrownguy]

history of east india company then british raj coming to india is very lengthy and complex.

[hornybrownguy]

history of east india company then british raj coming to india is very lengthy and complex.

[monkeybus4uk]

Asians no my friend you mean Indians. Singo-indian war the fact that your closest neigbours are dominantly Muslim etc.

Plus he totally discredits what Britain has achieved.

Naive.

[wwow9909]

i united asia everyone knows that

[blondeonblonde1966]

huh?

[blondeonblonde1966]

pan-asianism is a farce

thank god the japanese didn't reach calcutta, they were fucking animals

[rakshan]

btw, studying in an "army school" does not make you a part of the army. Most Indian kids, whose parents are in the army, and a few civilian's kids goto Army schools, because these schools are geared towards their needs (being transferred, or being located in remote areas)

[danpt2000]

British empire was just one part of the European colonial ventures in Africa, Asia and the Americas. Colonial imperialism was what fueled the European industrialization and scientific development.

[raghunathgunj]

It is really sad that he could not complete his post independance goals. One of which was to create an Asian union out of Japan China korea and Mongolia. In doing so he would have resolved many long standing differences among asian nations. Even though we have lost this ambassador of peace we can still keep his legacy alive by realising his dream.

[raghunathgunj]

If this is true then I would still like to point out that Netaji had no role to play in japanese recruitment of Indian soldiers.

PS can you please give me the source from which you got this information.

[HeihachiT]

ok, a "source" as you wished:

type: "INA Reinosuke" into search column. you should find video: "India - Japan friendship" posted by "Reinosuke" here you will find footage of interviews with former INA-soldiers. scenes 1:28, 1:48, 3:40 are especially interesting. but scene 4:46 should especially be of great interest for you since Netaji's nephew Sisir K. Bose, who is head of the Netaji Institue of Asian Studies in Calcutta, talks about Netaji's idea of "Asian Brotherhood" with the Japanese.

[raghunathgunj]

Actually i was looking for a documentary source something like wikipedia or some blog or a website that could contain a more indepth analysis of Netaji's activity.

[HeihachiT]

raghunathgunj,

but please watch the video nonetheless. it should be very enlightening for you if you have doubts about Netaji's notion of an Asian Brotherhood.

[raghunathgunj]

Sorry I couldn't understand much of it as it was in japanese.

[HeihachiT]

raghunathgunj,

you don't need to understand Japanese, you can still comprehend what they are saying, especially Sisir K. Bose comments from 4:46. all you need to do is just raise the volume since the Japanese is just dubbed over the English. The English is still there, try it, it works!

[HeihachiT]

raghunathgunj,

here is the first half of his words, I typed them up for you, use this to follow along with the video from 4:46.

"When, to his delight I think, Japan declared war on Britain and America, Netaji immediately decided that he should come over to Asia and have an arrangement with Japan for assistance in India's armed struggle for independence, from the east. And he had, I think, other important considerations in coming over to Japan."

[HeihachiT]

raghunathgunj,

here's the 2nd half of what he said:

"He had always believed that the challenge of all the

libertation struggles of the Asian people, right from Japan will come, a new Asian conciousness will rise; so that Asian

consciousness will bring together the Asian peoples, firstly for the purpose for liberating themselves from foreign

domination, and secondly, by evolving an altogether new political and social system from Asia, which would be a lesson to the rest of the world."

[raghunathgunj]

I was never questioning asian brothehood. I just encountered a comment saying that the Indian soldiers who did not join the INA were tortured and forced into doing so. I am skeptical of this. So I was wanting a source with which to clarify this. PS thanks for the translation.

[penjo]

Youtube hits another low in revisionism, what is so great about a man who allies with people who set up Unit 731, killed 15 million Chinese, and allied with the NAZIS (also false liberators of Belarussia and Ukraine) who invaded so many countries. I'm glad the Brits lost their empire (I am of Greek origin) but damn!! Ask my Filipino friends about what Japan did, and why they ended up siding with the Yanks or the Malaysians with the Brits.

[HeihachiT]

Are you attempting to label a "right" and a "wrong" in WWII in order to make it easier for yourself to deal with the harsh facts of history?

Or would you like to comment on Netaji's alliance with Japan, his goals and aspirations?

[penjo]

So you think Japan was right to do what I wrote or do you deny that happened?

[HeihachiT]

I just think that what you are trying to argue is quite irrelevant to the video I made. its rude to make completely irrelevant arguments in a situation where we are discussing a completely different historical topic.

however, if we were at a bar, I would love to discuss these issue, of course after a few beers!

[raghunathgunj]

How is it irrelevant.!?

[HeihachiT]

sorry, the "irrelevence" comment I posted was not aimed at you, but to someone else.

don't worry about it.

thanks.

[raghunathgunj]

O.K .

[raghunathgunj]

If you think Netaji had any ideological ties to the japanese and Nazis you are wrong. At that time Netaji was left with no one else but the axis powers to ally with against the british.Had any other nation come up with sanctions against the British empire he could have thought of joining them.But there were none.

[HeihachiT]

and if you think that Japan and the Nazis had ideological ties you are also wrong.

Japan allied itself with the Nazis because it had noone else to ally itself with. Japan was put in a position that made an alliance with the Nazis seem necessary.

Wait a minute, that sounds a lot like what Netaji did?

[raghunathgunj]

The objectives of the two were different. So there is no similarity between the two.

[raghunathgunj]

Japan wanted to create and expand their empire in east asia whereas Netaji's goal was to free India.Moreover their methods of warfare were far far different.Netaji is said to have made economic plans to rebuild and reconstruct territories which he invaded in India and always advocated secularism.Thus his methods were more humanitarian.

[Intranetusa]

East Asia is in pretty deep sh*t nowadays. Mainland China & North Korea are still run by corrupt Communist oligarchys, Japan is experiencing a rise in political ultranationalism, and S. Korea is arguiing about land and territorial history...Tensions are probably the highest since the end of WW2.

At least they don't have to deal with "creationism/intelligent design" like we do here in the states. >_<

That's the one good thing about Asian religions - they don't oppose science.

[HeihachiT]

I agree, things look pretty bad regarding East Asian International Relations these days. S. Korea and China CAN NEVER GET OVER history, and this is triggering Nationalism in Japan. I wouldn't neccessarily call it "ultra," especially after comparing it to the Nationalisms that exist in Japan's neighboring countries like both Koreas and China, where it is actually taught in school.

[Intranetusa]

Well, nationalism in moderation isn't bad - it's basically just patriotism.

When I say "ultranationalism" I mean nationalism to the point of absurdity, which applies to this situation.

continued --->

[HeihachiT]

When/how does nationalism turn absurd and become "ultranationalism?" And how does this situation apply to Japan?

[Intranetusa]

"When/how does nationalism turn absurd and become "ultranationalism?" And how does this situation apply to Japan? "

I was referring to my statement:

"Mainland China & North Korea are still run by corrupt Communist oligarchys, Japan is experiencing a rise in political ultranationalism, and S. Korea is arguiing about land and territorial history...Tensions are probably the highest since the end of WW2."

[HeihachiT]

>Intranetusa

How is Japan ultranationalistic? And if it is, how is this causing any danger to East Asia? I'd like to see China and the two Korea's have at least a drop of modesty that Japan has regarding nationalism.

[Intranetusa]

I didn't say Japan is ultranationalistic. I said it is experiencing a rise in ultranationalism among somg politicans. Also, my posts below indicates I was referring to PRC, ROC, N Korea, and S Korea as well.

[HeihachiT]

Intranetusa>

Sorry for misunderstanding you regarding your opinion on Japan and nationalism. I understand now that you don't consider Japan to be an "ultranationalistic" nation. However, you said Japan is experiencing a rise of "ultranationalism" among some politicians. Which politicians are you talking about? And why do they qualify as being "ultranationalistic?" What differentriates the "ultranationalistic" ones from the simply "nationalistic" ones?

[Intranetusa]

^ Well, I'd consider ultranationalists as people such as: the guy who wrote "Hating the Korean Wave," "Introduction to China," George Akiyama, Kanji Nishio guy & others who denies unit 731/Nanking events, etc

[HeihachiT]

I see what you're getting at. But I'm still curious. Regarding "Ken Kanryuu" or "Hate Korean Wave," do you think that it is absurd to try to counter Korea's claims regarding "Kankoku Kigen Setsu?" Kim Wan Sup, a Korean, takes a similar stance to the "ultranationalists" you have described above. Does that make him a traitor? Because obviously his country does.

[Intranetusa]

In the Hate Korean Wave & Intro to China, Koreans & Chinese are portrayed as cannibals who have no culture. Also it makes ridiculous claims such as the Japanese occupation of Korea was good for Korea.

Now, some of these reactions result from disgust to their own countries. ie, one of the writers of Intro to China is ROC resident who hates the communist PRC government.

However, two wrongs doesn't make a right...

[HeihachiT]

I agree with correcting historical inaccuracies. And portraying an entire culture as cannibalistic can never be a nice thing to do. Fortunately, these authors only make up a small portion of Japan and Japan's govt has yet to take part in these childish games. However, I was asking for your opinion regarding the "Kan Koku Kigen Setsu" section in "Hate Korean Wave." What are your thoughts on this matter?

[HeihachiT]

Regarding Nanking, Iris Chang plays an undeniably dominant role in forming what westerners believe in. Unfortunately, many westerners swallow Iris Chang's claims whole, without giving it a doubt. When such a fabricated and fictious version of history dominates the world, don't you think that a reaction, such as those of the authors you mentioned below, is not "ultranationalistic," but instead normal? Don't you think some "balancing" is needed regarding what the world believes in?

[Intranetusa]

I'm not talking about Iris Chang. She obviously exagerated some figures in her book. I'm refering to the actual historical documents used after WW2 by Allied nations. Now, when people completely deny historical events ever occured - such as Iran's president & the holocaust, or this case - that would make the reaction ultranationalistic. A normal reaction would be to correct the historical inaccuracies in her book.

[Intranetusa]

It's sad that Japan during WW2 started it's own Eastern Imperialism...

[HeihachiT]

actually, Japan started imperialism as early as 1894. If you include the invasions of the Ryukyus (present day Okinawa) and Ezochi (present day Hokkaido) then this Eastern Imperialism started a lot earlier.

The question is why Japan began to create their own colonies.which countries provoked Japan, when, and how. "WW2" is only a glimpse of the long painful struggle of what Bose and his Japanese allies were involved in.

[Intranetusa]

of course, if you can't beat them, join them. Perhaps that was the attitude in Japan at the time. After western powers forced open the doors of Japan to western trade, Japan knew that it had to adopt western technology and attitudes if it wanted to prevent colonization of its land. This later developed into a nationalist and racist attitude...really sad...

I personally blame China for inventing gunpowder and attracting western traders to Asia... >_<

[HeihachiT]

Indeed, those damn Chinese! lol

But Japan never joined them. If anything Japan fought against them, and lost by paying the ultimate price = being massacred indiscriminatorily by B-29 bombing raids and two atomic bombs; an occupation where 1/3 of all women between ages of 8 to 40 were raped by US servicemen; who of course, were never brought to justice; and the list goes on...

[Intranetusa]

Well, civilans always lose in war. China, Japan, Korea, Germany, Britan, France, Russia, etc all suffered thousands to millions of casualties.

Events such as atomic bombing, Nanking, holocaust, etc are unfortunately consequences...

Regarding the atomic bombs, if they weren't dropped, then would the US & USSR had to invade mainland Japan? ...many ppl back then still thought of the emperor as a living god. Would the Japanese have defended their homeland to the last man?

We'll never know...

[HeihachiT]

Your opinion on the a-bombs, I agree, we will never know. Advocates for America's decision to drop both bombs usually argue that America's decision reduced losses on both sides. This argument can somewhat be made for Hiroshima, but is extremely far-fetched for Nagasaki when considering the amount of time America granted Japan for surrender, and the infrastructural situation Japan was in during that time.

[HeihachiT]

continuation(1) Nagasaki was bombed just 2 days after Hiroshima. When considering the fact that it took 5 full days after Nagasaki for Japan to announce a surrender, this means that even if the nation wanted to surrender after Hiroshima to avoid a 2nd a-bomb, it couldn't because it was only granted 48 hours, making it impossible for Japan to avoid suffering 75,000 deaths (for god knows what).

[HeihachiT]

continuation(2) It is ludicrous to believe that Japanese headquarters would have been able to reorganize and agree upon a surrender in just a narrow window of 2 days. We know for a fact it was impossible because of the reality that it took 5 days to surrender even after Nagasaki. America's argument for Nagasaki is just an excuse for massacring 75,000 women and children. Unfortunately, America fails to acknowledge it own war-crimes.

[Intranetusa]

Probably one of the major reasons why Japan surrended was because the USSR had declared war, and was planning an invasion of the Japanese home islands.

Better to surrender to the US rather than be conquered by the Soviets.

And didn't the firebombing of Tokyo created more civilan casualties?

[HeihachiT]

>Better to surrender to the US rather than be conquered by the Soviets.

I agree, it was better, but this could not be the reason for surrender. There is no way Japan in early August of 1945 would have known it would be better. This is only something we know now. I don't see how Japan saw the US as a "better" invader after being nuked and firebombed.

[Intranetusa]

Well, it was either surrender or have the homeland islands invaded. I don't think the government & millitary officals would have fought to the last man for the Japanese emperor.

[HeihachiT]

continuation of previous post:

Japan is indeed, one of the many victims of WW2, so I don't see how Japan "joined them." Not to mention that Japan's supposed ally, the Germans, were selling weapons to Chiang Kai Sheks Nationalists.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you. I would really appreciate it if you would clarify what you mean by "join them."

[Intranetusa]

I meant "joined" as in join in with western imperialism.

I believe Germany stopped selling the weapons after Japan joined the axis powers.

Germany sold Chiang weapons before bcause he was a Nationalist who opposed Mao, and Nazi-Germany absolutely hated communists.