Your assumption is that the "he" in verse 29 refers to the one trampling. The Greek is ambiguous. I think it refers to the Son of God himself. Why? We know that Christ sanctified himself (Jn 17:19). In fact, our sanctification depends on his. In the Old Covenant, Aaronic priests were sanctified by the sprinkling of blood (Lev 8:30). Because Jesus is both victim and priest of the New Covenant, he was sanctified by his own blood. As he said, "I sanctify myself..." (Jn 17:19).
:30-:38 misrepresents Calvinism. That is NOT their view. If you have to misrepresent something then you immediately lose the debate. Ot at the very least credibility. And if their understanding is false exegete Rom. 8:28-34. Lastly, with your use of Rev. 22 you have erased the doctrine of justification by faith alone. Ok, one more. Why go here. Why not go to the book of Hebrews? The Calvinists fav book. Or to Romans 9 or John 6? You built a straw man here.
@theocratickingdom Good points. In my own search for the truth I came across... Heb 10:28-29 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Who is the "he" that is referred to a "wherewith he was sanctified"?
The elect--those whose names were written in the book before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8; cf. Eph 1:4)--are eternally secure. Christ, through both his perfect obedience to the Father's will and his perfect high-priestly duties, will safeguard their names and never blot them out (John 6:38-39; Heb 7:25; Rev 3:5).
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
@Strefanasha Christians are required to defend the faith against heresy - Calvinism is one of the worst, with its false, limited gospel & its perverted depiction of God as creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell in order to "glorify himself". They use every kind of fallacious, deceptive argument to promote their agenda & falsely misrepresent the beliefs of those who expose & refute their heresies. Dealing with Calvinists is like herding greased pigs - it's dirty.
Why don't YOU study it in the context of the gospel Paul preached to PAGANS in Acts17:29-30 "Since then we are God's offspring...Such former ages of ignorance God, it is true, ignored & allowed to pass unnoticed; but now He charges ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE to repent" Paul states that ALL men are God's children & He desires that ALL of them repent & be saved - which repudiates your attempt to limit "all" in 2Pet3:9 to refer only to believers.
@apollos He can only grunt the same one-liners between gulping down his Reformed swill. Time to turn this reprobate over to Satan - slapping his snout any further serves no purpose.
Concentrate: Jack hates how you Blaspheme God & your definition of Jesus; who DIDN'T so love the world, who DIDN'T come to taste death for everyone, who DIDN'T die as a ransom for ALL, who DIDN'T bear the iniquities of ALL, who IS NOT the Propitiation for the sins of the WORLD, who is NOT the Savior of ALL PEOPLE Especially of those who Believe, who does NOT desire ALL PEOPLE to be saved & to come to the knowledge of the truth-
Actually, what we don't care for are apostates who promote an unbiblical condemned gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you), who blaspheme God by accusing Him of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell, who change & distort God's word to accomplish it, & who cause division in Christ's body. Even calling themselves Christians is blasphemous - Calvinism has NOTHING to do with Christ, they follow a counterfeit.
@NoWorries And like I said - you reject the true Christ of the bible Who loved the world, humbled Himself, became a Servant to mankind, & offers salvation to ALL men as a gift not desiring that ANY of them perish. You instead follow a vile counterfeit who forces himself on some whether they like it or not & kicks the rest of them into hell in order to "glorify himself". You worship a filthy pig who isn't even worth spitting on - NOT the God of the bible but Satan himself.
@NoWorries88 No, I called the counterfeit scumbag you promote a filthy pig & nothing other than Satan Himself - the God of the bible doesn't create helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell in order to "glorify himself". And the real Christ is a GOOD Shepherd, not one who randomly & mysteriously chooses certain favorites & kicks the rest over a cliff! Wake up & smell your apostasy before it's too late - the end of Calvinism's demented road is indeed blasphemy of the Spirit
@JackMWolfe So you hate the Jesus of the Bible...though I know your Bible doesn't have a Romans 9, you really are setting yourself against God. It is probably too late for you anyways though because you've clearly committed the same sin that the Parisees did when Jesus told them they were unforgivable.
I do follow the Jesus of the bible but reject your filthy counterfeit who's NOTHING like the real One. At least we've clarified that Calvinists & Arminians have different Christs so there can be no genuine fellowship between their adherents. Calvinists try to claim this is an "in house" debate but it's not - they try to put a fake veneer of orthodoxy on their blasphemous beliefs but when it's stripped away, it's revealed as an unbiblical heresy
@NoWorries "I know your Bible doesn't have a Romans 9"
Rom9 doesn't support your blasphemy - Paul is speaking about God's selection of NATIONS ie, choosing Israel (Jacob) over the Gentiles (Esau) to bear His testimony to the world & to be the nation to bring forth the Messiah. It's NOT about personal salvation but a lament that Israel had now been rejected by God - Paul states repeatedly that salvation has always been open for those from BOTH groups who choose to repent & believe.
@NoWorries "So in other words, you haven't read it."
No, but by the words of GOD in Gen25:23 "two nations are in your womb, and the separation of two peoples has begun in your body; the one people shall be stronger than the other, & the elder shall serve the younger" it's obvious YOU haven't read the bible itself - only apostate Calvinist gurus. That's why you have no understanding of scriptures such as Rom9 - Calvinism is composed ENTIRELY of such twisted prooftexts ripped from the bible.
@NoWorries "So in other words, you haven't read it."
You can repeat such mantras as often as your demonic doctrines but it doesn't change the truth - YOU have been exposed as not only ignorant of God's word but a liar who puts falsehoods into God's own mouth, you promote an unbiblical gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) which is condemned by Gal1:7-9, & you blaspheme God by accusing Him of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell - an apostate.
LOL, you're COMPLETELY out of ammo aren't you? It's already been demonstrated that YOU haven't read it in light of Gen25:23 nor in the context of Paul's stated purpose in Rom9:2-4 ie, his sorrow that Israel had been cut off for their disobedience - NOT to deny man's free will regarding salvation. You've certainly demonstrated that Calvinists are among the most ignorant cultists on earth - chanting mindless mantras to hide it. What a pathetic idiot.
what a waste of a good made video! give us scriptures in full on the screen supporting your view! just throwing in some rev well whoopie doo rev applies to all kinds of stuff, major boring fail, can i have back the 2 min of my life you just stole?
@hemet You must not be aware of the issues involved in the Calvinist/Arminian debate. Calvinists believe God's sovereignty determines who will be saved - that man's will has nothing to do with it. The verses cited in the video directly refute this false theology. If names are withheld from the Book of LIfe for disobedience or put into the Book but then can later be removed for subsequent apostasy, then man's choice is the determining factor in salvation NOT the predetermined will of God.
@JackMWolfe yes i know of the debate, but am new to it and looking for answers, don't you know there is allot of those people? that's why i am searching videos, to get info. people dont just search videos already knowing what they believe and thus want to debate. okay?
@hemet The fact that one's name can be removed from the Book of Life is just one direct refutation of Calvinism, there are actually hundreds of verses. Some they ignore, some they change with fallacious arguments, some they pull out of context & add their doctrines to them. Calvinists have a limited, condemned gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) & blaspheme God's character by claiming He creates helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell. It's a heresy.
@JackMWolfe did you say that just because you repent you are saved, that its your choice, then its done....or is it in the bible that Jesus saves who the Father sends him.
@hemet Salvation is by one very specific process 1)God has supplied mankind with a way back to Him thru Christ which he could never earn or merit by himself 2)He convicts EVERY person of their sinful condition & their need for a Savior & 3) calls them to repentance 4)those who respond are given to Christ for regeneration. Salvation doesn't originate from man's will but ends with it as each person makes their decision to accept Christ - or not. God doesn't force salvation on anyone nor deny it.
@JackMWolfe didn't answer my q, so you don't believe what i said. but its in the bible. Jesus said i do NOT pray for the world. he DIED for the world, but he only prays for those who the Father has give him. people are all crazy today with, "I" got saved cause i said so, then live in the world and of the world. tv, movies, newspapers, sports, living just like the world, when Jesus said if you love anything in the World, the Father is not in you. its in the bible
@hemet I did answer your question - the Father "gives them to Christ" by the specific process I just cited. He has provided salvation thru Christ for ALL mankiind & desires that NONE of them perish - when Jn3:16 says God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, that's what it means. This world of sin is passing away but God desires that no one perish along with it. You're mixing words & meanings, failing to rightly divide the Word.
@JackMWolfe okay since you did not address what i said about living in the world, tv, movies, sports, etc, you did not say that is not a problem, so you kept silent on it, thinking its okay......so then, all who call are saved, and lets live in the world as the unsaved do.......failing rightly to divide the word??? uh brother :)
@hemet You're mixing justification & sanctification. Justification is strictly by putting one's faith in Christ, sanctification is by following & obeying Him - forsaking the world. Like the 1st generation of Israelites, it's possible to be released but then return to the world, forsaking the sanctification process - but both are required for salvation. Calvinism has no concept of any of this - to them salvation is automatic by divine decree & requires nothing from the individual.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse. Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
@shteve... yes the clay became MARRED, so He made it into another vessel... "But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness... Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to HONOR and some to DISHONOR. Therefore, if ANYONE cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work." 2 Tim.2:16,21-22
(cont) 1Tim4:1 "But the Holy Spirit distinctly & expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding & seducing spirits & doctrines that demons teach." This one applies directly to Calvinists who"ve fallen into an apostate system that has a false, limited gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) & blasphemes God's character by claiming He creates helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell - pure heresy.
(cont) 1Cor10:11-12 "These things befell them by way of a figure; they were written to admonish us for right action by good instruction...therefore let anyone who thinks he is standing firm, take heed lest he fall"
Rom11:20-21 "But they were broken off because of their unbelief, & you are established through faith. So do not become proud & conceited, but rather stand in awe & be reverently afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches because of unbelief, neither will He spare you."
@CBALLEN... the whole "I used to think like you" argument doesn't work w/ me because I ALSO use to think like you. I studied under Piper, Driscoll, Washer, Slick, Calvin, Luther, Sproul, White, and many other calvinists, Pink, Tozer, Boettner and so fort seaking the Truth. I read their PRECIOUS confessions, their Baptist Catechisms, I Had a ZEAL for Gods SOVEREIGNTY... then I came to my senses, saw the LOGIC and men perverting The Scriptures... now I find Clvinism to be REPULSIVE and PERVERTED
@CBALLEN... ohnnytm2 IS NOW reformed? :( too bad. Don't you find it interesting that non-Calvinists are Bringing people to Christ, then they're Converted a 2nd time over to Calvinism? Acts 20:29-30 HCSB "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them." An Arminian brought you to the LORD, not a CALVINISTS.
@apollos6640 Actually God brought me to Himself in a motel room,by myself after work.I was getting ready to go find a bar when I had a strange desire to read the Gideon Bible in the room.After a bout an hour or two of reading the gospels,God had soundly saved me.On my route on my way home I couldn't contain it,I told all my customers that God had saved me.They thought I was kidding because 2 wks before I was telling them all dirty jokes,that was 16 yrs ago.I attended an AR.BPT. CH. for 14 yrs.
@apollos Why don't you go ask Johnnytm21 why He's now a Calvinist.His dad is even an Arminian pastor,he's the only Calvinist in the family,and I'm sure they hate it too.He's happier today than I've ever seen him.As an Arminian the thing that caused me to start to question my doctrine is God knowing both the saved and the lost before time and if this was true,then God did make people for Hell and all the verses that claim God is trying to save all men,didn't mean that,there had 2 B ANOTHER ANSWR.
@apollos6640 I saw that Arminianism makes God a failure and the Bibles says His will can't be thwarted.
The Bible says God does all He pleases and if that's true and He wanted to save everyone,then all would be saved.I saw where 99.9999% of all the Gentiles went to Hell in the OT.and that only out of the Hebrews could anyone be saved,until Jesus came and He came for the world(Gentiles too) John 6:37,44,65 all were much clearer now and acts 13:48 was the one that cinched it.Only people appointed!
@CBALLEN So after God showed me this,I could no longer sit in my Arm. Ch. and listen to preaching that said,OH BELOVED,JESUS DID ALL HE CAN DO AND HE'S WAITING FOR YOU TO COME AND GIVE YOUR HEART TO HIM,NOW YOU CAN'T COME UNLESS THE FATHER'S DRAWING,BUT YOU CAN TELL HIM NO! That was no where near what the verse was saying,it said all who are drawn are saved.I spoke to my Pastor about it and he said I needed to find another Church,so I told him I'd been praying about it and God just ansd my pryr.
@apollos6640 I also noticed that when we witnessed we'd tell people that Jesus died for you,but the apostles never preached that way,they said Jesus died for sinners and if one believes they will be saved-unto glorification,not new birth.Jesus told Nicodemus,you must be born again,not you must believe and Jesus told him the holy spirit caused this and the H.S. WAS LIKE THE WIND,that He works in conjunction with hearing or reading God's word ,God's word converts 1 thru the Holy Spirit unto belief
@CBALLEN... I've summarized YOUR belief, are you warning us about the SOVEREIGNTY of God because you want us to become Calvinists and Be SAVED? Or are you BOASTING about Gods Sovereignty and Rejoicing that anti-calvinists have been prepared for Destruction? Please explain your purpose
@apollos6640 Only those drawn by the Father will believe the truth and be saved and Jesus will never lose them,the reason people aren't saved is because they've never been drawn,they are those God has let be born for Hell only.This is the truth,if you believe it,Glory,if you don't,not so good.
@apollos6640 I used to believe just like you,but after looking at what my doctrine taught,I saw many inconsistencies in it when examined against scripture,and I prayed God would show me the truth and after looking and praying He finally showed it to me and it was like being born again,again! When you finally understand God is sovereign in EVERYTHING,a huge burden is lifted from your shoulders.Remember ,Johnnytm21 he was an Arminian who used to argue with me all the time,now he's reformed .
@CBALLEN... you're just a noisy gong. I love the Word of God. But you're just a Blind Guide providing NO ANSWERS to Tough Questions, when you're called out and REBUKED, you're only answer is "that's been answered already" and you run-off claiming Victory! LOL I find that really entertaining and hilarious, self-deception indeed! JackMWolfe always call you out, then you Bail on Him and call him names claiming VICTORY... that's really funny.
@apollos6640 Open theist hairy ticks hang together,those who call god stupid will see in the end just how stupid he is,He;s still being patient letting your heresy fester,then pop!
@CBALLEN you say "He;s still being patient letting your heresy fester,then pop!". What nonsense, if the God of Calvinism actually existed then He is causing our 'heresy'. He wants us to be non-Calvinists, so why are you trying to convince us against His will?
....Why did God say He intended good to those that Calvinist's say He created on to destroy in Hell? Was God lying?
@CBALLEN There is a huge difference between God knowing the final outcome and men being responsible for their own sin, than for God to actively cause the sin. The God I proclaim created Adam a free creature and allowed Him to sin. The God your proclaim created a puppet that He caused to sin. The God I proclaim wants men to receieve Christ but will allow them to refuse. The God you proclaim doesn't want most men to receieve Christ and created them only for the purpose of burning them in Hell.
@CBALLEN It is really something for you to ask me "will you ever answer" when you have continueally ignored my question over and over again. Why do you say that God intended only destruction to people that God says He intended good for? Was God lying? Why was God grieved in Gen6?
@CBALLEN No one is disputing that God created men knowing some of them would end up in Hell, the dispute is that God wants them to go to Hell and He created them only for the purpose of ending them to Hell instead of allowing them to rebel.
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No you have not answered. WHY DID GOD SAY HE INTENDED GOOD FOR THOSE YOU SAY HE ONLY EVER PLANNED TO DESTROY.
@shtev God has created all things for their own purpose,even the wicked for the day of evil.So people are wicked sinners because they're going to Hell,that's their purpose to sin and have God use them and then go to Hell.While those who believe,do so because they're going to Heaven.God did create people for special purposes.Just cause someone said they believe in Calvinism and now they're atheists or Muslim,whatever,means they never were saved,because if they were of us they'd still be with us.
@CBALLEN Read the story of the Potter in Jer18. The potter was trying to make a good pot but the clay was too hard, so he made another pot as seemed best to him. God purposes to use even the wicked, those that have hardened their heart.....
I am not talking about people who now say they are Athiests or Muslims, I am talking about Christians who were brough up in Calvinist churches who started to study the Bible and certanly still believe on Christ but now reject Calvinism. I know several...
@shteve77 People can be brought up Calvinist or Arminian and change what they want to believe. God has never called them to belief in Jesus,since it's impossible for dead men to make themselves born again.Men are spiritually dead until God quickens them to life to believe in Christ.There are also no ex-Christians of any sort,Jesus made it clear in John 6,they went out from us to make manifest that they were never of us,because if they were of us they'd still be with us,Perserverance of the STs.
@CBALLEN 'There are also no ex-Christians of any sort"
YOU'RE an ex-Christian (!), & there are dozens of verses & exhortations that warn believers about falling away. ALL God's promises & covenants are conditional, dependent on faith & obedience - exhortations such as Heb4:11 "Let us therefore strive diligently to enter that rest, that no one may fall or perish by the same kind of unbelief & disobedience into which those in the wilderness fell." - God had saved them but they fell away.
@CBALLEN You don't seem to be getting my point. You claimed that you used to think as I do, but now you believe Calvinism as though that some how proves something. I simply am pointing out that I know Christian who used to believe Calvinism and now they are Christians who don't.
@shteve77 The potter did mess his pot up on accident,but if even after the accident,he could still make something else for use,so could not the Lord make pots too, for different uses out of the same clay on purpose?He tells Jeremiah what to tell Israel and then tells him exactly what they will say and do,they won't turn from their wickedness.This is just more of God proving that wicked natural men CAN'T OBEY HIM,even when God says He'll bring destruction on them,when He would surly do good.
@CBALLEN Nonsense, God says they won't turn from their wickedness exactly as Christ told the Pharisees they'd die in their sins & how I've told you that you'll never return from your apostasy - because people can completely hardened themselves against the truth & God gives them over to the falsehoods & lies they've repeatedly refused to repent of. Most judgments that God pronounces can be averted if the people choose to repent, such as Nineveh's - but others, such as yours, have been decreed.
@CBALLEN The potter didn't mess up by accident. The potter was trying to make a pot but the type of pot he wanted to make could not be made with the clay that He had. They clay was marred, it could not be moudled, so he made it into something else, whatever seemed best to him. It says "But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him."...cont..
@CBALLEN ...Then it continues "Then the word of the LORD came to me: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted....destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents....then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned"...cont...
@CBALLEN ...and then it says "And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. "
And there is the verse you keep ignoring. Why does God say He intended good for people that you say He created only to destroy?
@apollos6640 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
@apollos6640 God has let evil fester and has not destroyed the wicked yet,they are not clay but vessels that He has let do their thing to prove they deserve the destruction He'll bring on them.We as vessels of mercy will see the destruction that comes upon them and we will see what we have been saved from,and we will receive the undeserved riches of His Glory for all HE HAS DONE FOR US.
@CBALLEN... . Revelation 18:4 "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;"... but you Calvinists have NOT COME OUT of that Catholic Whore, you've only REFORMED her AND CONTINUE TO WILLFULLY be submissive to her by following its Father; AUGUSTINE. You're a bunch of BLIND GUIDES!
@CBALLEN... I've summarized YOUR beliefs, now answer me this; what Part of what I've summarized is WRONG? Or am I completely RIGHT? By the Sovereign Will of God don't be a COWARD and answer me!
@apollos6640 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
@apollos6640 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? ALL MEN,SEE ,ALL MEN JEWS AND GENTILES,CAN YOU SEE IT?ALL MEN?
@CBALLEN.. any view of Libertarian Free Will is HERESY. His ELECT bow before Him and acknowledge His SOVEREIGNTY, that He's the Cosmic Puppetmaster, the Divine Causal Agent, Decreeing WHATSOEVER comes to pass. Defending and Patrolling his SOVEREIGNTY, being PROOF that you are, CHOSEN for MERCY. This Belief in His SOVEREIGNTY is what ultimately Saves you. Your belief in Jesus alone will NEVER Save you! You are a HERETIC and PREDESTINED for Hell if you would have ANY other view.
There's only one truth & only one who died on a cross to save HIS PEOPLE FROM EVERY NATION,TRIBE, &TONGUE.Jesus Christ died to save sinners of ALL MEN.
@CBALLEN... Here is the conclusion of YOUR theology: That all of mankind was created for Hell, "born dead in their mothers womb", that ALL were created for Hell except those CHOSEN from eternity past, where GOD would CAUSALLY Intervene for them IRRESISTIBLY having them submit into believing in a Universe where Causal Determinism is how He operates...
@apollos6640 Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
ARMINIAN 8:29 For those God foreknew (EVERYONE)he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
@apollos6640 Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
ARMINIAN 8:30Romans 8:30 And those he predestined(ALL PEOPLE), he also called(ALL PEOPLE); those he called, he also justified(THOSE WHO CHOSE HIM); those he justified, he also glorified.(THOSE WHO CHOSE HIM)
@CBALLEN... Calvinism: For it is by PREDESTINATION you've been saved through ELECTION, and this ELECTION is the Free gift of God to the ELECT, so that THE ELECT MAY BOAST
@apollos6640 John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
Arminian 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me(of those who chose to come), but raise them up at the last day.(if they don't mess up too bad)
@apollos6640 John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Arminian 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world(those who wanted you revealed to them). They were yours(when they chose to be yours); you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
@apollos6640 Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Arminian 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and all believed and were appointed to eternal life.
@apollos6640 Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Arminian 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose( but some of these will go to Hell)
@apollos6640 Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-
Arminian 1:5 he predestined us(those who chose to be predestined) to be adopted(those who chose to be adopted)as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will(not Gods will but man's will is what it really means)
@CBALLEN ,,, DON'T USE THAT GARBAGE ON ME, "is the trinity in the Bible".. you've been studying John Piper I see... Revelation 18:4 "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;"... but you Calvinists have NOT COME OUT of the Catholic Whore, you've only REFORMED her. I follow the teachings of the Early church before they were maligned by Augustinian/Manechaean philosophy
@apollos6640 Ephesians 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Arminian 1:11In him we were also chosen( THOSE WILLING TO BE CHOSEN), having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,( IT REALLY MEANS ACCORDING TO MAN'S WILL)
@CBALLEN, believe it or not, I am NOT an Arminian, as far as Gods Foreknowledge is concerned I am NOT an Open Theist, Nor do I accept YOUR calvinistic beliefs of God being the Divine Causal Agent for peoples actions... but you don't care, Continue Patrolling the Sovereignty of God, by way of Causal Determinism, that IS His Will for you right?
@apollos6640 You are a Semi-pelagian some times,but an open theist,just like the wolf in wolfs clothing when it suits your inconsistent doctrine .You try to make God look like a Moron.You believe God is absent minded by forgetting who He's elected and who isn't ,so He has to try to save everyone.
@CBALLEN "I believe that we don't need to add to God's word..." Except adding in certain doctrines such as, Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Preservation of the Saints, Efficacius Calling, General Calling, Monergism, Supralapsarianism, Infralapsarianism, a philosophical implication of Divine Causal Determinism in defining the SOVEREIGNTY of God, Penal Substitution Theory, redefining words such as dead, regeneration, Election, Foreknowledge and so on
@apollos6640 Putting a name to doctrines found in scripture are not adding to scripture. And redefining words?Are you kidding?Is trinity in the Bible? Irresistible Grace IS AN EASY WAY OF SAYING THAT ALL THE Father gives to me will come to me,see how irresistible grace shortens everything?We don't add or subtract words to or from the scripture like Arminians do,that's the difference.
@Shteve... what CBALLEN believes is that you've been created for Hell unless you submit yourself to his "God" who has created a universe where Causal Determinism is how He operates, any view of Libertarian Free Will is an illusion. If you bow before His "God" and acknowledge His SOVEREIGNTY and that He's the Cosmic PuppetMaster Decreeing WHATSOEVER comes to pass, then THAT will be PROOF that you are, CHOSEN for MERCY. His SOVEREIGNTY is what Saves you. YOUR BELIEF IN JESUS will NEVER SAVE YOU!
@apollos I believe that we don't need to add to God's word to make it conform to any doctrine like you guys do,I think it's explains things very well on it's own.You've never answered either.If God knew both groups before time,the lost and saved,why did God let the goats be born unless they were part of His plan?And since God knew the goats would never be saved,then ALL MEN ,AND WHOLE WORLD,DOESN'T MEAN HEAD FOR HEAD,because God is not stupid,He's not patiently waiting to save those,understand?
@apollos6640 God is logical and very smart,in fact He really knows it ALL,yet Arminians try to turn Him into some moron.God did create people for Hell,whether you believe He elected them Himself for His good purpose(like the Bible says) or by looking down through time to see who will choose Him and then choosing those(like Arminians assert) but either way God is not trying but failing to save all men and Jesus didn't die for all men,Jesus died for men of all nations,Jews and Gentiles.
@CBALLEN You say God did create Hell for people. Scriputre says it was created for "devil and his angels", not men. Men will go there because they follow Satan.
@shteve77 No,God created people for Hell,the messengers of Satan are the children of the Devil or the angels of the Devil.God knew who they were before time too and He let them be born for a purpose,He uses their sin to accomplish all His holy will.
@CBALLEN "prepared for the devil and his "angelos".
Rev 12:9 "that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his "angelos" with him.
Sorry, men will go to hell, because they have rebelled against God, but Hell was not created for men. God intended good for men. I ask yet again why to do say that God never intended good for those that God says He did? Was God lying?
@shteve77 "I ask yet again why to do say that God never intended good for those that God says He did? Was God lying?"
CBAllen has already confessed to believing God was lying to them, his 1st response to my challenge after weeks of running from Ex6:6-8 was that God is sovereign & gets things done however He wants to & if anyone doesn't like it - well that's just tough. CB is a confirmed apostate, a reprobate who not only blasphemes God but the Holy Spirit too. He's totally possessed by Satan
@JackMWolfe I haven't confessed to God lying,that's your belief system.I told you why God killed those Israelites,because they weren't all Israel,pay attention wolf.
@CBALLEN I've paid attention you liar & you've previously acknowledged that God DID give the promise of deliverance from bondage & to bring the ENTIRE 1st generation into the Land but only intended for TWO of them to actually go in. You're now claiming they weren't "all Israel"? So when He told Moses in Ex4:22 "You shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, even My firstborn, & I say to you, Let My son go, that he may serve Me" - it only meant 2 of them? LOL, lunacy!
@JackMWolfe God didn't lie,Not ALL ISRAEL IS ISRAEL ROMANS 9:6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
@JackMWolfe Romans 9: 6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Now,do you understand who went into the promise land?
@CBALLEN Now,do you understand who went into the promise land?"
I understand that you pull verses out of context & twist them to your own destruction. Heb3&4 says the reason they were destroyed is because they rebelled & refused to enter the Land by their own disobedience & unbelief NOT because it was God's will for them. God fulfilled His promise to them but they rejected it - you instead claim He gave them a false promise while intending to destroy them - you're a heretic & a blasphemer.
@JackMWolfe You haven't got a clue who God is or what scripture is talking about,you operate on doctrines of demons.You'll see how ignorant God is before long,and you won't like Him anymore then,than you do now.
I know exactly who YOU worship, it's unmistakable because you reflect every bit of his malevolent fruit. You make wholesale changes to God's word, add to & subtract from it, misquote it, & evade it - whatever necessary to subvert the truth. And you falsely accuse others, bear false witness about their beliefs, try to cause division among believers, lie without hesitation, blaspheme God & His Spirit, etc, etc. Could it be......Satan? Absolutely!
@JackMWolfe he,he No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him(if they have already believed themselves and want to be drawn)and I will raise them up on the last day(if they have good works and don't walk away,of course Jesus raises both the good and the bad anyhow).Now who adds and subtracts,to and from scripture?
@JackMWolfe No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him(if they have already believed themselves and want to be drawn)and I will raise them up on the last day(if they have good works and don't walk away,of course Jesus raises both the good and the bad anyhow)
@JackMWolfe All the Father gives to me will come to me (if they've decided to believe themselves)and I will in no wise cast them out.(no,but they can walk away and lose their salvation on loan from God,since ever lasting life really doesn't mean ever lasting if someone decides to leave).When are you going to write your own Bible?If you did you could straighten everyone one out and show them what the scriptures are really saying,since God didn't understand He wasn't making things plain enough?
@JackMWolfe OF COURSE THEY DISOBEYED,THEY'RE LOST,LOST PEOPLE CAN'T OBEY GOD,THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD,THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD,HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU.UNLESS PEOPLE BELONG TO GOD THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD! Understand now?
@JackMWolfe Your wacked out doctrine has made you deaf and blind,that's why you can't understand anything about scripture.When you start with a crackhead foundation,your whole belief system is crackhead!
@CBALLEN Why won't you answer. Why did God say He intended good for those that you say He created only to destroy?
"if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. "
@apollos6640 Jesus died for and will save every single person that He intended to save,none who He died for will end up in Hell,He is actually a Savior , He just didn't die to make everyone SAVABLE.Arminians try to make our God into a failure,one who only pleads with and anguishes over the lost.Our God causes a supernatural transformation in His people,salvation is not at all by the will(choice) of any man,salvation is of the Lord alone.
Just because God released the goats along with His elect doesn't mean He promised the goats anything,it rains on the just and the unjust.The goats proved they did not belong to God by constantly longing for Egypt and making other gods while Moses was receiving the 10 commandments.Your god is as false as Jack's god,can't you see that? If you believe your god knows all things and he has no elect people then you probably do think your god is a liar.
@CBALLEN.Your comment"doesn't mean He promised the goats anything" What nonsense! Under this definition, ALL of them were 'goats' (including Moses) except Joshua and Caleb. God told Moses to tell all the people He had come to save them. You are ignoring scripture.
@CBALLEN So all of the people including Moses were goats, the only two the promise applied to were Joshua and Caleb? "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out....I am concerned about their suffering. SO I HAVE COME DOWN TO RESCUE THEM...to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land." Sorry, you are very confused.
@shteve77 God can grieve when He has to do something that must be done according to Himself,I've grieved too in certain situations when I had to put animals down,have you ever done that?We are made in His image,so I guess that's why we grieve too.
@CBALLEN You may have greived when you put down an animal because you didn't want to do it, but your god is like a man who breeds a pet only for the purpose of torturing and to 'put it down'. He wants to 'put it down', it is for 'his own good pleasure". The whole reason God created most of mankind for the Calvinist is just to send them to Hell.
You have not given an answer, why was God greived? Why do you say He intended destruction for those God says He intends good?
@shteve77 You got to look at the Bible as an example to the elect and a commentary on the goats.The whole Bible has been written to someone else until God saves you,then it becomes a family tree album. When God rescued the Jews,this was the beginning of God's hand picked theocracy and He wanted all to see that rebelling right off the bat, was dealt with severely.The Jews were to be a light to the world of pagans to show the world that the Hebrew God was GOD.
@shteve77 Here's a few for you,do you believe that Paul could have told Jesus to get lost?If you read about his conversion you'll notice that Jesus didn't ask Paul anything except why he was persecuting Him and then Jesus commences to tell PAUL all he will do for the rest of his life,it wasn't open to discussion or some mere offer of salvation.If man has free will then why did God make Jonah go to Nineveh?Why did God stop Joseph's brothers from killing him?God's will is always done.
Your assumption is that the "he" in verse 29 refers to the one trampling. The Greek is ambiguous. I think it refers to the Son of God himself. Why? We know that Christ sanctified himself (Jn 17:19). In fact, our sanctification depends on his. In the Old Covenant, Aaronic priests were sanctified by the sprinkling of blood (Lev 8:30). Because Jesus is both victim and priest of the New Covenant, he was sanctified by his own blood. As he said, "I sanctify myself..." (Jn 17:19).
aphobos1521 1 month ago
:30-:38 misrepresents Calvinism. That is NOT their view. If you have to misrepresent something then you immediately lose the debate. Ot at the very least credibility. And if their understanding is false exegete Rom. 8:28-34. Lastly, with your use of Rev. 22 you have erased the doctrine of justification by faith alone. Ok, one more. Why go here. Why not go to the book of Hebrews? The Calvinists fav book. Or to Romans 9 or John 6? You built a straw man here.
theocratickingdom30 1 month ago
@theocratickingdom Good points. In my own search for the truth I came across... Heb 10:28-29 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Who is the "he" that is referred to a "wherewith he was sanctified"?
ChristopherakaPaul 1 month ago
The elect--those whose names were written in the book before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8; cf. Eph 1:4)--are eternally secure. Christ, through both his perfect obedience to the Father's will and his perfect high-priestly duties, will safeguard their names and never blot them out (John 6:38-39; Heb 7:25; Rev 3:5).
aphobos1521 3 months ago
@aphobos1521 Please quote accurately...
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
ChristopherakaPaul 1 month ago
every where i go the same folks are debating...lol...
MegaHillFolk 5 months ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 6 months ago
when the debate gets as nasty as this then surely calvinists and arminians who so debate are as damned as each other
Strefanasha 6 months ago
@Strefanasha Christians are required to defend the faith against heresy - Calvinism is one of the worst, with its false, limited gospel & its perverted depiction of God as creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell in order to "glorify himself". They use every kind of fallacious, deceptive argument to promote their agenda & falsely misrepresent the beliefs of those who expose & refute their heresies. Dealing with Calvinists is like herding greased pigs - it's dirty.
JackMWolfe 6 months ago
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JackMWolfe 6 months ago
@JackMWolfe 1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
ChristopherakaPaul 1 month ago
Catholics go to hell.
GrungeFlannel1990 6 months ago
No exegesis seen here. Putting verses on a screen proofs nothing! Except you can do some graphics on a computer.
radarradar100 7 months ago
@radarradar100: Exactly.
theocratickingdom30 1 month ago
The Jesuits are very proud of this video.
hisfreewill 8 months ago
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@hisfreewill "The Jesuits are very proud of this video."
Any who now follow the bible instead of Rome certainly would be.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@Noworries "2 Peter 3:9 study it."
Study 1 Tim.2:4, Titus 3:4, Ez.18:32, Rom.11:32, Isaiah 5:1-5, Jer.3:6-7, Ex.32:10-14, Num.11:1-2; 14:12-20; 16:20-35, Deut.9:13-14; 18-20,25. 2 Sam. 24:17-25...
You know what... clear your mind from the Garbage of Calvinism, become a clean slate & Start over. You've gone astray.
apollos6640 8 months ago
@apollos6640 That has nothing to do with my comment.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries88. "That has nothing to do with my comment"
It does when You try & LIMIT Gods EXTENSION of His LOVE.
apollos6640 8 months ago
@apollos6640 Study the context of 2 Peter 3:9
NoWorries88 8 months ago
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JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@NoWorries "Study the context of 2 Peter 3:9"
Why don't YOU study it in the context of the gospel Paul preached to PAGANS in Acts17:29-30 "Since then we are God's offspring...Such former ages of ignorance God, it is true, ignored & allowed to pass unnoticed; but now He charges ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE to repent" Paul states that ALL men are God's children & He desires that ALL of them repent & be saved - which repudiates your attempt to limit "all" in 2Pet3:9 to refer only to believers.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe Why do you hate Jesus so much?
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@apollos He can only grunt the same one-liners between gulping down his Reformed swill. Time to turn this reprobate over to Satan - slapping his snout any further serves no purpose.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@NoWorries "so you hate Jesus of the Bible"
Concentrate: Jack hates how you Blaspheme God & your definition of Jesus; who DIDN'T so love the world, who DIDN'T come to taste death for everyone, who DIDN'T die as a ransom for ALL, who DIDN'T bear the iniquities of ALL, who IS NOT the Propitiation for the sins of the WORLD, who is NOT the Savior of ALL PEOPLE Especially of those who Believe, who does NOT desire ALL PEOPLE to be saved & to come to the knowledge of the truth-
and I know I'm riight
apollos6640 8 months ago
@apollos6640 2 Peter 3:9, study it.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
Arminians hate Jesus...
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries88 "Arminians hate Jesus"
Actually, what we don't care for are apostates who promote an unbiblical condemned gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you), who blaspheme God by accusing Him of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell, who change & distort God's word to accomplish it, & who cause division in Christ's body. Even calling themselves Christians is blasphemous - Calvinism has NOTHING to do with Christ, they follow a counterfeit.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe Like I said, you hate Jesus by this ridiculous humanism you peddle.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries And like I said - you reject the true Christ of the bible Who loved the world, humbled Himself, became a Servant to mankind, & offers salvation to ALL men as a gift not desiring that ANY of them perish. You instead follow a vile counterfeit who forces himself on some whether they like it or not & kicks the rest of them into hell in order to "glorify himself". You worship a filthy pig who isn't even worth spitting on - NOT the God of the bible but Satan himself.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe You've just called the King of the Universe a filthy pig and Satan. That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries88 No, I called the counterfeit scumbag you promote a filthy pig & nothing other than Satan Himself - the God of the bible doesn't create helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell in order to "glorify himself". And the real Christ is a GOOD Shepherd, not one who randomly & mysteriously chooses certain favorites & kicks the rest over a cliff! Wake up & smell your apostasy before it's too late - the end of Calvinism's demented road is indeed blasphemy of the Spirit
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe So you hate the Jesus of the Bible...though I know your Bible doesn't have a Romans 9, you really are setting yourself against God. It is probably too late for you anyways though because you've clearly committed the same sin that the Parisees did when Jesus told them they were unforgivable.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries "So you hate the Jesus of the Bible"
I do follow the Jesus of the bible but reject your filthy counterfeit who's NOTHING like the real One. At least we've clarified that Calvinists & Arminians have different Christs so there can be no genuine fellowship between their adherents. Calvinists try to claim this is an "in house" debate but it's not - they try to put a fake veneer of orthodoxy on their blasphemous beliefs but when it's stripped away, it's revealed as an unbiblical heresy
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@NoWorries "I know your Bible doesn't have a Romans 9"
Rom9 doesn't support your blasphemy - Paul is speaking about God's selection of NATIONS ie, choosing Israel (Jacob) over the Gentiles (Esau) to bear His testimony to the world & to be the nation to bring forth the Messiah. It's NOT about personal salvation but a lament that Israel had now been rejected by God - Paul states repeatedly that salvation has always been open for those from BOTH groups who choose to repent & believe.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe So in other words, you haven't read it.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries "So in other words, you haven't read it."
No, but by the words of GOD in Gen25:23 "two nations are in your womb, and the separation of two peoples has begun in your body; the one people shall be stronger than the other, & the elder shall serve the younger" it's obvious YOU haven't read the bible itself - only apostate Calvinist gurus. That's why you have no understanding of scriptures such as Rom9 - Calvinism is composed ENTIRELY of such twisted prooftexts ripped from the bible.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe So in other words, you haven't read it.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
@NoWorries "So in other words, you haven't read it."
You can repeat such mantras as often as your demonic doctrines but it doesn't change the truth - YOU have been exposed as not only ignorant of God's word but a liar who puts falsehoods into God's own mouth, you promote an unbiblical gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) which is condemned by Gal1:7-9, & you blaspheme God by accusing Him of creating helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell - an apostate.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe Have you not read Romans 9?
NoWorries88 8 months ago
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@NoWorries "Have you not read Romans 9?"
LOL, you're COMPLETELY out of ammo aren't you? It's already been demonstrated that YOU haven't read it in light of Gen25:23 nor in the context of Paul's stated purpose in Rom9:2-4 ie, his sorrow that Israel had been cut off for their disobedience - NOT to deny man's free will regarding salvation. You've certainly demonstrated that Calvinists are among the most ignorant cultists on earth - chanting mindless mantras to hide it. What a pathetic idiot.
JackMWolfe 8 months ago
@JackMWolfe You should read Romans 9.
NoWorries88 8 months ago
what a waste of a good made video! give us scriptures in full on the screen supporting your view! just throwing in some rev well whoopie doo rev applies to all kinds of stuff, major boring fail, can i have back the 2 min of my life you just stole?
hemet92544 10 months ago
@hemet You must not be aware of the issues involved in the Calvinist/Arminian debate. Calvinists believe God's sovereignty determines who will be saved - that man's will has nothing to do with it. The verses cited in the video directly refute this false theology. If names are withheld from the Book of LIfe for disobedience or put into the Book but then can later be removed for subsequent apostasy, then man's choice is the determining factor in salvation NOT the predetermined will of God.
JackMWolfe 10 months ago
@JackMWolfe yes i know of the debate, but am new to it and looking for answers, don't you know there is allot of those people? that's why i am searching videos, to get info. people dont just search videos already knowing what they believe and thus want to debate. okay?
hemet92544 10 months ago
@hemet The fact that one's name can be removed from the Book of Life is just one direct refutation of Calvinism, there are actually hundreds of verses. Some they ignore, some they change with fallacious arguments, some they pull out of context & add their doctrines to them. Calvinists have a limited, condemned gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) & blaspheme God's character by claiming He creates helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell. It's a heresy.
JackMWolfe 10 months ago
@JackMWolfe did you say that just because you repent you are saved, that its your choice, then its done....or is it in the bible that Jesus saves who the Father sends him.
hemet92544 10 months ago
@hemet Salvation is by one very specific process 1)God has supplied mankind with a way back to Him thru Christ which he could never earn or merit by himself 2)He convicts EVERY person of their sinful condition & their need for a Savior & 3) calls them to repentance 4)those who respond are given to Christ for regeneration. Salvation doesn't originate from man's will but ends with it as each person makes their decision to accept Christ - or not. God doesn't force salvation on anyone nor deny it.
JackMWolfe 10 months ago
@JackMWolfe didn't answer my q, so you don't believe what i said. but its in the bible. Jesus said i do NOT pray for the world. he DIED for the world, but he only prays for those who the Father has give him. people are all crazy today with, "I" got saved cause i said so, then live in the world and of the world. tv, movies, newspapers, sports, living just like the world, when Jesus said if you love anything in the World, the Father is not in you. its in the bible
hemet92544 10 months ago
@hemet I did answer your question - the Father "gives them to Christ" by the specific process I just cited. He has provided salvation thru Christ for ALL mankiind & desires that NONE of them perish - when Jn3:16 says God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, that's what it means. This world of sin is passing away but God desires that no one perish along with it. You're mixing words & meanings, failing to rightly divide the Word.
JackMWolfe 10 months ago
@JackMWolfe okay since you did not address what i said about living in the world, tv, movies, sports, etc, you did not say that is not a problem, so you kept silent on it, thinking its okay......so then, all who call are saved, and lets live in the world as the unsaved do.......failing rightly to divide the word??? uh brother :)
hemet92544 10 months ago
@hemet You're mixing justification & sanctification. Justification is strictly by putting one's faith in Christ, sanctification is by following & obeying Him - forsaking the world. Like the 1st generation of Israelites, it's possible to be released but then return to the world, forsaking the sanctification process - but both are required for salvation. Calvinism has no concept of any of this - to them salvation is automatic by divine decree & requires nothing from the individual.
JackMWolfe 10 months ago
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse. Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Koonethboy 11 months ago
Arminians turn into Calvinists when they pray... listen to your words... :)
MrXD120 1 year ago
@shteve... yes the clay became MARRED, so He made it into another vessel... "But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness... Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to HONOR and some to DISHONOR. Therefore, if ANYONE cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work." 2 Tim.2:16,21-22
apollos6640 1 year ago
(cont) 1Tim4:1 "But the Holy Spirit distinctly & expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding & seducing spirits & doctrines that demons teach." This one applies directly to Calvinists who"ve fallen into an apostate system that has a false, limited gospel (Repent, for Christ MIGHT have died for you) & blasphemes God's character by claiming He creates helpless people for the sole purpose of casting them into hell - pure heresy.
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
(cont) 1Cor10:11-12 "These things befell them by way of a figure; they were written to admonish us for right action by good instruction...therefore let anyone who thinks he is standing firm, take heed lest he fall"
Rom11:20-21 "But they were broken off because of their unbelief, & you are established through faith. So do not become proud & conceited, but rather stand in awe & be reverently afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches because of unbelief, neither will He spare you."
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... the whole "I used to think like you" argument doesn't work w/ me because I ALSO use to think like you. I studied under Piper, Driscoll, Washer, Slick, Calvin, Luther, Sproul, White, and many other calvinists, Pink, Tozer, Boettner and so fort seaking the Truth. I read their PRECIOUS confessions, their Baptist Catechisms, I Had a ZEAL for Gods SOVEREIGNTY... then I came to my senses, saw the LOGIC and men perverting The Scriptures... now I find Clvinism to be REPULSIVE and PERVERTED
apollos6640 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... ohnnytm2 IS NOW reformed? :( too bad. Don't you find it interesting that non-Calvinists are Bringing people to Christ, then they're Converted a 2nd time over to Calvinism? Acts 20:29-30 HCSB "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them." An Arminian brought you to the LORD, not a CALVINISTS.
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Actually God brought me to Himself in a motel room,by myself after work.I was getting ready to go find a bar when I had a strange desire to read the Gideon Bible in the room.After a bout an hour or two of reading the gospels,God had soundly saved me.On my route on my way home I couldn't contain it,I told all my customers that God had saved me.They thought I was kidding because 2 wks before I was telling them all dirty jokes,that was 16 yrs ago.I attended an AR.BPT. CH. for 14 yrs.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos Why don't you go ask Johnnytm21 why He's now a Calvinist.His dad is even an Arminian pastor,he's the only Calvinist in the family,and I'm sure they hate it too.He's happier today than I've ever seen him.As an Arminian the thing that caused me to start to question my doctrine is God knowing both the saved and the lost before time and if this was true,then God did make people for Hell and all the verses that claim God is trying to save all men,didn't mean that,there had 2 B ANOTHER ANSWR.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 I saw that Arminianism makes God a failure and the Bibles says His will can't be thwarted.
The Bible says God does all He pleases and if that's true and He wanted to save everyone,then all would be saved.I saw where 99.9999% of all the Gentiles went to Hell in the OT.and that only out of the Hebrews could anyone be saved,until Jesus came and He came for the world(Gentiles too) John 6:37,44,65 all were much clearer now and acts 13:48 was the one that cinched it.Only people appointed!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN So what is someone you know has become a Calvnist, I know several people who used to be Calvinists and who no longer are.
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN So after God showed me this,I could no longer sit in my Arm. Ch. and listen to preaching that said,OH BELOVED,JESUS DID ALL HE CAN DO AND HE'S WAITING FOR YOU TO COME AND GIVE YOUR HEART TO HIM,NOW YOU CAN'T COME UNLESS THE FATHER'S DRAWING,BUT YOU CAN TELL HIM NO! That was no where near what the verse was saying,it said all who are drawn are saved.I spoke to my Pastor about it and he said I needed to find another Church,so I told him I'd been praying about it and God just ansd my pryr.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 I also noticed that when we witnessed we'd tell people that Jesus died for you,but the apostles never preached that way,they said Jesus died for sinners and if one believes they will be saved-unto glorification,not new birth.Jesus told Nicodemus,you must be born again,not you must believe and Jesus told him the holy spirit caused this and the H.S. WAS LIKE THE WIND,that He works in conjunction with hearing or reading God's word ,God's word converts 1 thru the Holy Spirit unto belief
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... I've summarized YOUR belief, are you warning us about the SOVEREIGNTY of God because you want us to become Calvinists and Be SAVED? Or are you BOASTING about Gods Sovereignty and Rejoicing that anti-calvinists have been prepared for Destruction? Please explain your purpose
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Only those drawn by the Father will believe the truth and be saved and Jesus will never lose them,the reason people aren't saved is because they've never been drawn,they are those God has let be born for Hell only.This is the truth,if you believe it,Glory,if you don't,not so good.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 I used to believe just like you,but after looking at what my doctrine taught,I saw many inconsistencies in it when examined against scripture,and I prayed God would show me the truth and after looking and praying He finally showed it to me and it was like being born again,again! When you finally understand God is sovereign in EVERYTHING,a huge burden is lifted from your shoulders.Remember ,Johnnytm21 he was an Arminian who used to argue with me all the time,now he's reformed .
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... you're just a noisy gong. I love the Word of God. But you're just a Blind Guide providing NO ANSWERS to Tough Questions, when you're called out and REBUKED, you're only answer is "that's been answered already" and you run-off claiming Victory! LOL I find that really entertaining and hilarious, self-deception indeed! JackMWolfe always call you out, then you Bail on Him and call him names claiming VICTORY... that's really funny.
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Of course you can explain none of it because you don't believe any of it,do you?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Open theist hairy ticks hang together,those who call god stupid will see in the end just how stupid he is,He;s still being patient letting your heresy fester,then pop!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN you say "He;s still being patient letting your heresy fester,then pop!". What nonsense, if the God of Calvinism actually existed then He is causing our 'heresy'. He wants us to be non-Calvinists, so why are you trying to convince us against His will?
....Why did God say He intended good to those that Calvinist's say He created on to destroy in Hell? Was God lying?
shteve77 1 year ago
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@shteve77 Why did God knowingly create people who will be in Hell?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@shteve77 Will you ever answer?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN There is a huge difference between God knowing the final outcome and men being responsible for their own sin, than for God to actively cause the sin. The God I proclaim created Adam a free creature and allowed Him to sin. The God your proclaim created a puppet that He caused to sin. The God I proclaim wants men to receieve Christ but will allow them to refuse. The God you proclaim doesn't want most men to receieve Christ and created them only for the purpose of burning them in Hell.
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN It is really something for you to ask me "will you ever answer" when you have continueally ignored my question over and over again. Why do you say that God intended only destruction to people that God says He intended good for? Was God lying? Why was God grieved in Gen6?
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 I've been answering you,but will you answer me?Why did god let people be born for Hell?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN No one is disputing that God created men knowing some of them would end up in Hell, the dispute is that God wants them to go to Hell and He created them only for the purpose of ending them to Hell instead of allowing them to rebel.
.
No you have not answered. WHY DID GOD SAY HE INTENDED GOOD FOR THOSE YOU SAY HE ONLY EVER PLANNED TO DESTROY.
shteve77 1 year ago
@shtev God has created all things for their own purpose,even the wicked for the day of evil.So people are wicked sinners because they're going to Hell,that's their purpose to sin and have God use them and then go to Hell.While those who believe,do so because they're going to Heaven.God did create people for special purposes.Just cause someone said they believe in Calvinism and now they're atheists or Muslim,whatever,means they never were saved,because if they were of us they'd still be with us.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN Read the story of the Potter in Jer18. The potter was trying to make a good pot but the clay was too hard, so he made another pot as seemed best to him. God purposes to use even the wicked, those that have hardened their heart.....
I am not talking about people who now say they are Athiests or Muslims, I am talking about Christians who were brough up in Calvinist churches who started to study the Bible and certanly still believe on Christ but now reject Calvinism. I know several...
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 People can be brought up Calvinist or Arminian and change what they want to believe. God has never called them to belief in Jesus,since it's impossible for dead men to make themselves born again.Men are spiritually dead until God quickens them to life to believe in Christ.There are also no ex-Christians of any sort,Jesus made it clear in John 6,they went out from us to make manifest that they were never of us,because if they were of us they'd still be with us,Perserverance of the STs.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN 'There are also no ex-Christians of any sort"
YOU'RE an ex-Christian (!), & there are dozens of verses & exhortations that warn believers about falling away. ALL God's promises & covenants are conditional, dependent on faith & obedience - exhortations such as Heb4:11 "Let us therefore strive diligently to enter that rest, that no one may fall or perish by the same kind of unbelief & disobedience into which those in the wilderness fell." - God had saved them but they fell away.
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@CBALLEN You don't seem to be getting my point. You claimed that you used to think as I do, but now you believe Calvinism as though that some how proves something. I simply am pointing out that I know Christian who used to believe Calvinism and now they are Christians who don't.
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 The potter did mess his pot up on accident,but if even after the accident,he could still make something else for use,so could not the Lord make pots too, for different uses out of the same clay on purpose?He tells Jeremiah what to tell Israel and then tells him exactly what they will say and do,they won't turn from their wickedness.This is just more of God proving that wicked natural men CAN'T OBEY HIM,even when God says He'll bring destruction on them,when He would surly do good.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN Nonsense, God says they won't turn from their wickedness exactly as Christ told the Pharisees they'd die in their sins & how I've told you that you'll never return from your apostasy - because people can completely hardened themselves against the truth & God gives them over to the falsehoods & lies they've repeatedly refused to repent of. Most judgments that God pronounces can be averted if the people choose to repent, such as Nineveh's - but others, such as yours, have been decreed.
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@CBALLEN The potter didn't mess up by accident. The potter was trying to make a pot but the type of pot he wanted to make could not be made with the clay that He had. They clay was marred, it could not be moudled, so he made it into something else, whatever seemed best to him. It says "But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him."...cont..
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN ...Then it continues "Then the word of the LORD came to me: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted....destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents....then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned"...cont...
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN ...and then it says "And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. "
And there is the verse you keep ignoring. Why does God say He intended good for people that you say He created only to destroy?
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN but why does it say, "HAS ENDURED WITH MUCH PATIENCE vessels of wrath prepared for destruction"? Do you have an answer?
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 God has let evil fester and has not destroyed the wicked yet,they are not clay but vessels that He has let do their thing to prove they deserve the destruction He'll bring on them.We as vessels of mercy will see the destruction that comes upon them and we will see what we have been saved from,and we will receive the undeserved riches of His Glory for all HE HAS DONE FOR US.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... . Revelation 18:4 "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;"... but you Calvinists have NOT COME OUT of that Catholic Whore, you've only REFORMED her AND CONTINUE TO WILLFULLY be submissive to her by following its Father; AUGUSTINE. You're a bunch of BLIND GUIDES!
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 We're out,you're headed back,COME OUT OF HER ALL YOU SEMI-PELAGIAN ARMINIANS!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Don't you just hate scripture apollyon,it interferes with your doctrine ,doesn't it?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... I've summarized YOUR beliefs, now answer me this; what Part of what I've summarized is WRONG? Or am I completely RIGHT? By the Sovereign Will of God don't be a COWARD and answer me!
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Why did God let those who will surly end up in Hell be born?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? ALL MEN,SEE ,ALL MEN JEWS AND GENTILES,CAN YOU SEE IT?ALL MEN?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN.. any view of Libertarian Free Will is HERESY. His ELECT bow before Him and acknowledge His SOVEREIGNTY, that He's the Cosmic Puppetmaster, the Divine Causal Agent, Decreeing WHATSOEVER comes to pass. Defending and Patrolling his SOVEREIGNTY, being PROOF that you are, CHOSEN for MERCY. This Belief in His SOVEREIGNTY is what ultimately Saves you. Your belief in Jesus alone will NEVER Save you! You are a HERETIC and PREDESTINED for Hell if you would have ANY other view.
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Why do you think God is stupid?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Do you realize that all you believe is built on emotion alone?SCRIPTURE SURE DOESN'T BACK YOU UP.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
There's only one truth & only one who died on a cross to save HIS PEOPLE FROM EVERY NATION,TRIBE, &TONGUE.Jesus Christ died to save sinners of ALL MEN.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... Here is the conclusion of YOUR theology: That all of mankind was created for Hell, "born dead in their mothers womb", that ALL were created for Hell except those CHOSEN from eternity past, where GOD would CAUSALLY Intervene for them IRRESISTIBLY having them submit into believing in a Universe where Causal Determinism is how He operates...
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Why did God allow people who will only go to Hell, to be born ?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
CBALLEN... the BIBLE: "Father FORGIVE THEM, for they know Not what they do,"
Calvinism: "Do NOT forgive these Reprobate, for they were PREDESTINED for HELL"
The BIBLE:"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Calvinism: I have not come to call the REPROBATE but THE ELECT to repentance.
The BIBLE: for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them."
Calvinism: the Son of Man has already decreed the Reprobate for Hell, and has only come for His ELECT
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
ARMINIAN 8:29 For those God foreknew (EVERYONE)he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
ARMINIAN 8:30Romans 8:30 And those he predestined(ALL PEOPLE), he also called(ALL PEOPLE); those he called, he also justified(THOSE WHO CHOSE HIM); those he justified, he also glorified.(THOSE WHO CHOSE HIM)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN... Calvinism: For it is by PREDESTINATION you've been saved through ELECTION, and this ELECTION is the Free gift of God to the ELECT, so that THE ELECT MAY BOAST
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 No,we're saved by Grace through faith,the scripture is right and the order is correct.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
Arminian 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me(of those who chose to come), but raise them up at the last day.(if they don't mess up too bad)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Arminian 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world(those who wanted you revealed to them). They were yours(when they chose to be yours); you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Arminian 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and all believed and were appointed to eternal life.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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@apollos6640 Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Arminian 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose( but some of these will go to Hell)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
Arminian 1:4 For he chose us(those who chose Him first) in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-
Arminian 1:5 he predestined us(those who chose to be predestined) to be adopted(those who chose to be adopted)as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will(not Gods will but man's will is what it really means)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN ,,, DON'T USE THAT GARBAGE ON ME, "is the trinity in the Bible".. you've been studying John Piper I see... Revelation 18:4 "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;"... but you Calvinists have NOT COME OUT of the Catholic Whore, you've only REFORMED her. I follow the teachings of the Early church before they were maligned by Augustinian/Manechaean philosophy
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 You are a Catholic,you believe you save yourself just like she does.You're both Arminian semi-pelagians.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640JN17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which you have given me; for they are yours.
aRMINIAN 17:9I pray for ALL OF them: I pray for the world, for them ALL for they are ALLyours.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Ephesians 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Arminian 1:11In him we were also chosen( THOSE WILLING TO BE CHOSEN), having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,( IT REALLY MEANS ACCORDING TO MAN'S WILL)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN, believe it or not, I am NOT an Arminian, as far as Gods Foreknowledge is concerned I am NOT an Open Theist, Nor do I accept YOUR calvinistic beliefs of God being the Divine Causal Agent for peoples actions... but you don't care, Continue Patrolling the Sovereignty of God, by way of Causal Determinism, that IS His Will for you right?
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 You are a Semi-pelagian some times,but an open theist,just like the wolf in wolfs clothing when it suits your inconsistent doctrine .You try to make God look like a Moron.You believe God is absent minded by forgetting who He's elected and who isn't ,so He has to try to save everyone.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Can you answer?Why did God let the goats be born,knowing they have no hope?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Arminian 2:8For by faith you have been saved through grace. And this is your own doing; and not the gift of God,
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN "I believe that we don't need to add to God's word..." Except adding in certain doctrines such as, Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Preservation of the Saints, Efficacius Calling, General Calling, Monergism, Supralapsarianism, Infralapsarianism, a philosophical implication of Divine Causal Determinism in defining the SOVEREIGNTY of God, Penal Substitution Theory, redefining words such as dead, regeneration, Election, Foreknowledge and so on
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Putting a name to doctrines found in scripture are not adding to scripture. And redefining words?Are you kidding?Is trinity in the Bible? Irresistible Grace IS AN EASY WAY OF SAYING THAT ALL THE Father gives to me will come to me,see how irresistible grace shortens everything?We don't add or subtract words to or from the scripture like Arminians do,that's the difference.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@Shteve... what CBALLEN believes is that you've been created for Hell unless you submit yourself to his "God" who has created a universe where Causal Determinism is how He operates, any view of Libertarian Free Will is an illusion. If you bow before His "God" and acknowledge His SOVEREIGNTY and that He's the Cosmic PuppetMaster Decreeing WHATSOEVER comes to pass, then THAT will be PROOF that you are, CHOSEN for MERCY. His SOVEREIGNTY is what Saves you. YOUR BELIEF IN JESUS will NEVER SAVE YOU!
apollos6640 1 year ago
@apollos I believe that we don't need to add to God's word to make it conform to any doctrine like you guys do,I think it's explains things very well on it's own.You've never answered either.If God knew both groups before time,the lost and saved,why did God let the goats be born unless they were part of His plan?And since God knew the goats would never be saved,then ALL MEN ,AND WHOLE WORLD,DOESN'T MEAN HEAD FOR HEAD,because God is not stupid,He's not patiently waiting to save those,understand?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@apollos6640 God is logical and very smart,in fact He really knows it ALL,yet Arminians try to turn Him into some moron.God did create people for Hell,whether you believe He elected them Himself for His good purpose(like the Bible says) or by looking down through time to see who will choose Him and then choosing those(like Arminians assert) but either way God is not trying but failing to save all men and Jesus didn't die for all men,Jesus died for men of all nations,Jews and Gentiles.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN You say God did create Hell for people. Scriputre says it was created for "devil and his angels", not men. Men will go there because they follow Satan.
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 No,God created people for Hell,the messengers of Satan are the children of the Devil or the angels of the Devil.God knew who they were before time too and He let them be born for a purpose,He uses their sin to accomplish all His holy will.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN "prepared for the devil and his "angelos".
Rev 12:9 "that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his "angelos" with him.
Sorry, men will go to hell, because they have rebelled against God, but Hell was not created for men. God intended good for men. I ask yet again why to do say that God never intended good for those that God says He did? Was God lying?
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 "I ask yet again why to do say that God never intended good for those that God says He did? Was God lying?"
CBAllen has already confessed to believing God was lying to them, his 1st response to my challenge after weeks of running from Ex6:6-8 was that God is sovereign & gets things done however He wants to & if anyone doesn't like it - well that's just tough. CB is a confirmed apostate, a reprobate who not only blasphemes God but the Holy Spirit too. He's totally possessed by Satan
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe I haven't confessed to God lying,that's your belief system.I told you why God killed those Israelites,because they weren't all Israel,pay attention wolf.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN I've paid attention you liar & you've previously acknowledged that God DID give the promise of deliverance from bondage & to bring the ENTIRE 1st generation into the Land but only intended for TWO of them to actually go in. You're now claiming they weren't "all Israel"? So when He told Moses in Ex4:22 "You shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, even My firstborn, & I say to you, Let My son go, that he may serve Me" - it only meant 2 of them? LOL, lunacy!
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe There were tons of people who went into the promise land dummy.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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@JackMWolfe God didn't lie,Not ALL ISRAEL IS ISRAEL ROMANS 9:6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe Romans 2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe Romans 9: 6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Now,do you understand who went into the promise land?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN Now,do you understand who went into the promise land?"
I understand that you pull verses out of context & twist them to your own destruction. Heb3&4 says the reason they were destroyed is because they rebelled & refused to enter the Land by their own disobedience & unbelief NOT because it was God's will for them. God fulfilled His promise to them but they rejected it - you instead claim He gave them a false promise while intending to destroy them - you're a heretic & a blasphemer.
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe You haven't got a clue who God is or what scripture is talking about,you operate on doctrines of demons.You'll see how ignorant God is before long,and you won't like Him anymore then,than you do now.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN "You haven't got a clue who God is"
I know exactly who YOU worship, it's unmistakable because you reflect every bit of his malevolent fruit. You make wholesale changes to God's word, add to & subtract from it, misquote it, & evade it - whatever necessary to subvert the truth. And you falsely accuse others, bear false witness about their beliefs, try to cause division among believers, lie without hesitation, blaspheme God & His Spirit, etc, etc. Could it be......Satan? Absolutely!
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe he,he No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him(if they have already believed themselves and want to be drawn)and I will raise them up on the last day(if they have good works and don't walk away,of course Jesus raises both the good and the bad anyhow).Now who adds and subtracts,to and from scripture?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him(if they have already believed themselves and want to be drawn)and I will raise them up on the last day(if they have good works and don't walk away,of course Jesus raises both the good and the bad anyhow)
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe All the Father gives to me will come to me (if they've decided to believe themselves)and I will in no wise cast them out.(no,but they can walk away and lose their salvation on loan from God,since ever lasting life really doesn't mean ever lasting if someone decides to leave).When are you going to write your own Bible?If you did you could straighten everyone one out and show them what the scriptures are really saying,since God didn't understand He wasn't making things plain enough?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe OF COURSE THEY DISOBEYED,THEY'RE LOST,LOST PEOPLE CAN'T OBEY GOD,THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD,THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD,HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU.UNLESS PEOPLE BELONG TO GOD THEY CAN'T OBEY GOD! Understand now?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe Your wacked out doctrine has made you deaf and blind,that's why you can't understand anything about scripture.When you start with a crackhead foundation,your whole belief system is crackhead!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@shteve77 Why did God let goats be born?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN Why won't you answer. Why did God say He intended good for those that you say He created only to destroy?
"if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. "
shteve77 1 year ago
@apollos6640 Jesus died for and will save every single person that He intended to save,none who He died for will end up in Hell,He is actually a Savior , He just didn't die to make everyone SAVABLE.Arminians try to make our God into a failure,one who only pleads with and anguishes over the lost.Our God causes a supernatural transformation in His people,salvation is not at all by the will(choice) of any man,salvation is of the Lord alone.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
Just because God released the goats along with His elect doesn't mean He promised the goats anything,it rains on the just and the unjust.The goats proved they did not belong to God by constantly longing for Egypt and making other gods while Moses was receiving the 10 commandments.Your god is as false as Jack's god,can't you see that? If you believe your god knows all things and he has no elect people then you probably do think your god is a liar.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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shteve77 1 year ago
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shteve77 1 year ago
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@CBALLEN.Your comment"doesn't mean He promised the goats anything" What nonsense! Under this definition, ALL of them were 'goats' (including Moses) except Joshua and Caleb. God told Moses to tell all the people He had come to save them. You are ignoring scripture.
shteve77 1 year ago
@CBALLEN So all of the people including Moses were goats, the only two the promise applied to were Joshua and Caleb? "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out....I am concerned about their suffering. SO I HAVE COME DOWN TO RESCUE THEM...to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land." Sorry, you are very confused.
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 Moses sinned unto death,the others rejected God.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 God can grieve when He has to do something that must be done according to Himself,I've grieved too in certain situations when I had to put animals down,have you ever done that?We are made in His image,so I guess that's why we grieve too.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN You may have greived when you put down an animal because you didn't want to do it, but your god is like a man who breeds a pet only for the purpose of torturing and to 'put it down'. He wants to 'put it down', it is for 'his own good pleasure". The whole reason God created most of mankind for the Calvinist is just to send them to Hell.
You have not given an answer, why was God greived? Why do you say He intended destruction for those God says He intends good?
shteve77 1 year ago
@shteve77 You got to look at the Bible as an example to the elect and a commentary on the goats.The whole Bible has been written to someone else until God saves you,then it becomes a family tree album. When God rescued the Jews,this was the beginning of God's hand picked theocracy and He wanted all to see that rebelling right off the bat, was dealt with severely.The Jews were to be a light to the world of pagans to show the world that the Hebrew God was GOD.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@shteve77 Here's a few for you,do you believe that Paul could have told Jesus to get lost?If you read about his conversion you'll notice that Jesus didn't ask Paul anything except why he was persecuting Him and then Jesus commences to tell PAUL all he will do for the rest of his life,it wasn't open to discussion or some mere offer of salvation.If man has free will then why did God make Jonah go to Nineveh?Why did God stop Joseph's brothers from killing him?God's will is always done.
CBALLEN 1 year ago