I have never seen such a terrible ride. If the jockey had held Frankel back and accelerated at the 400m it would have won by 4 lengths in a canter. English racing is so primitive compared to Australian racing.
This is the closest you'll ever see Frankel come to being beaten at a mile, IMO. And If he had lost this race, it wouldn't have been his fault. Shitty ride by Tom Queally on Frankel at Ascot for this race, and that's being kind. And to LCSimberto, who keeps debating a Frankel vs. Black Caviar race, it's like comparing apples with oranges. One's a sprinter, who's not likely to stretch beyond 6f. The other's been a miler looking to step up to 10f in 2012. At what distance do you purpose they race?
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three.
What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
Watch them going round the bend. Frankel is cruising into the lead while all of the others are struggling to do anything but lose length after length. He won this race after 4 furlongs through forcing the opposition to push too soon and so they didn't have enough energy to catch him. Take out Zoffany and this was an easy win over Exelebration. If you look at 3 furlongs, Zoffany is the only horse who isn't tying to win the race. The others did and hence couldn't get near him. That = 3/4 length.
THIS MILER IS NEVER EVER GOING TO RUN 10 FURLONGS......
the are just hyping this horse just like that overrated Rachel pretending to skip the 2009 Classic and Travers because of nonsense excuses.....truth is Rachel cannot win at 10 furlongs on PLASTIC OR ANY SURFACE.....but i know plenty of you swallowed that BS...
Without a doubt, this is closest you're ever likely to see Frankel ever beaten at a mile. And it wasn't really the horse's fault he was nearly nailed late by Zoffany in this race anyway, IMO. A less than stellar ride by Tom Queally, to say the least. JMO.
...are avoiding her, and he would beat anything racing in the UK, such is the awe she engenders. They can't get decent opposition for her, becuase there isn't any. Frankel would be just another notch on her belt if her connection have the courage to try her on. I hope they do, becuase if the brits consider him an immortal, what would that make her - the greatest sprinter the world has ever seen!
@ASupremeOwl black caviar has barely been 'ridden out' to the line in all but one of her starts, hence why her sectionals might be misleading. she has either been eased up or not even whipped at all.... the race i'm referring to is the TJ smith, she ran home in 1:08.71 for the last 200m where she was sitting close to the speed with a leader (a champion in his own right) that tried to run her off her feat. Race tactics dont effect champions... wish i could say the same for frankel in this race.
Dream on Nautilus 1972. Check Black caviars sectional times...They are quicker than Frankels. Any way...bring on a match race . We could gesticulate until the cows come home...
@beejay62 Since Black Caviar is a sprinter then I'd have thought her sectional times would be quicker than a horse who as been running over a mile. Black Caviar couldn't keep that pace for a full mile hence the reason she is a sprinter. A mile would stretch her to the maximum I feel. I would love to see Frankel and Black Caviar race over 7f. Surely the fairest distance?
@ASupremeOwl You misconstrue the nature of these ratings. They are for a maximium performance in a single race, hence over a particular distance under particular conditions . They do not make a horse the best in the world. The most that can be said is that Frankel has attained the highest rating for a mile race. Black Caviar has been rated at 130 for 6f, but dropped because the ratings are for performances within the period stated. He has never been rated over 6f, nor she over 8f.
@SvendBosanvovski Why are you telling Me how to suck eggs? I've been watching racing long enough to understand that the ratings are based on one race. Its like the rating Sea The Stars received for his win the Arc of 140, Theres noway that win was more impressive than the way Dancing Brave dispatched a field like he did in 1986 and to recieve the same rating of 140, Scandulous. Besides the point Frankel as received an OR of 135 for his win the QE2 whilst BC as gained an maximum of 127...
@ASupremeOwl You may know how to suck eggs, as you put it, but you are communicating to the world at large. There may be others out there who hang on your every word, and may accept your characterisation based on ratings whether intended or not. I know you are no mug, Owl, and pay you the courtesy of a considered reply. Now let's get back to the racing... different rating agencies generate different ratings because they are guided by different methodologies and subjective criteria.
@SvendBosanvovski for her career over 6f, The point I make is Im sure Frankel could run over 6f and gain a rating of 127 easily but could Black Caviar run over 8 furlongs espcially in Europe on some of the toughest tracks and not a carpet like she is used to in Australia and recieve the same rating of 135? Highly unlikely, Thus the reason Frankel is deservedly and righfully the BEST in the world...
@ASupremeOwl They are neither right or wrong. Merely qualitative assessments of the respective value of particular performances. The IFHA is the accepted international rating authority. It has Frankel at 135 and Black Caviar at 128 for the April to October rating period - she has 130 for her annual rating based on her Newmarket run in March. All we can say about that is that the Authority considered his QE2 perfromance 5lb better than her T J Smith run.
@ASupremeOwl I appreciate the way you construct an argument, Owl. I want you to know that. And I agree with your assessment of Frankel's capacity to stretch his ability to 10f or even longer. I have gone back through his 9 generations and it is exciting to see a lot of stout and professional blood there. He won t dissapoint. But he will not beat Black Caviar in a sprint. Nothing will. She is the best we have ever seen - anywhere. The more I research she has has done the more...
@SvendBosanvovski Sorry the reason Frankel is 'rated' the best in the world... 6f, 7f, 8f, 10f do not look to be a problem for Frankel. Im sure he would have been Champion Sprinter and equalled BC's rating of 130 over 6f had he stepped down to that trip, He was running 11 second furlongs in the Guineas for the first 5 furlongs on the Rowley mile which is probably the toughest mile straight in the world. Hes won over 7 furlongs, And was rated the best in the world over 8 furlongs and like...
@ASupremeOwl It doesn't entitle him to claim World Champion status, just the highest rated horse. You make these exhorbitant claims for what he might do to her over 6f, but they are utterly without foundation. We have a very detailed idea of what she does in her races because of the availability of sectional time your racing clubs refuse to obtain. She gets out in about 13 secs for the first furlong, cruised at a fraction over 10 secs and then eased in the last fourlong to about 11 to 12.
@ASupremeOwl Like all great champions, she ups the rate on or before the turn, races a way and then switches off. Frankel does the same thing, which is a measure of his greatness. His fastest furlong in the QE2 was, as you know 10.99, or about 4 lens slower than her average at that stahge of the race. Now you will tell me that the Rowley course undulates. This fast sectional was partly downhill. Sure, he ran a mile, but they crawlwd for the first two furlongs. She would blind him with speed!
@ASupremeOwl astounded I become. For example, in the Newmarket (carrying 9st 1lb) her final 1000m was run in 53.61 on a dead track eased up (the world 5f record by Procreate at Gulfstream Park is 53.79s). Look at the race again with that in mind and seriously tell me whether any other horse on the Planet could do that. Official WR for 4f is 43.76. She has bettered that on 6 occasions, eased up on dead tracks. She is in a new zone, Owl. The connections of outstanding sprinters like Sepoy...
@SvendBosanvovski Sir Henry Cecil as said ' He will get 10 furlongs standing on his head ' The horse is a freak, Could the same be said about Black Caviar could she win a Gr1 over a mile? Or is she all speed and 6f is her only real distance? This is why Frankel is so highly rated he is so versatile in terms of distance and ground. And why I made the point about ratings. 130 over 6 furlongs, Frankel would laugh at that...
@Nautilus1972 beaten nothing? ...scenic blast winner of the king stand & lightning stakes (two of the worlds premier sprints), star witness 2nd in the king stand stakes, hay list arguably the 2nd best sprinter in the world right now and winner of the manikato and all aged stakes both at group 1, crystal lily winner of the golden slipper (world richest 2yo race)... she has beaten the best at both WFA and Handicap conditions now the best are avoiding her to save embarrassment
@Nautilus1972 why do you think it beats nothing all the time? It's cause noone wants to race against it cause they know they don't have a chance! Besides have you watched it race Haylist, i wouldn't call Haylist nothing it was beating the field by 5 lengths while caviar was still beating it by 5! Next Autumn we'll see what happens hey, but i can tell you now, Caviar under the whip is gonna be frightening. I can't wait!
@beeejay62 Comments like that are stupid when you have to go back nearly 40 years to find a Flat horse that has been rated more highly by Timeform than Frankel.
@beeejay62 Blow Frankel away at what distance? Its ok making outlandish comments like that but Frankel would probably give Black Caviar a test over 6f but Im not confident in thinking she could match the mighty Frankel over 7 and 8 furlongs... The ratings speak for themself. Frankel 135 Black Caviar 128
Black Caviar would eat this horse for breakfast, sorry but LCSimberto is right, Nolen doesn't even touch her and she flies. Let's see how he does without a pace maker ;-)
@jacksonarmour4912 Aussies just can't admit our horses in Europe are a lot better than your bunch. Frankel would piss all over Black Cavier/ Hay List.. it's actually funny though because Frankel is rated 10lbs+ superior to BC
for people saying that frankel will easily beat black caviar, well its funny how caviar's jockey sits there and just lets her go without doing anything at all, he is EASING her off towards the end of races, and still getting further and further away from the others, frankel is being HAMMERED by his jockey, and loses ground to the others everystride, go figure.
@LCSimberto Black Caviar as raced nothing of note in the world. Haylist an ageing sprinter and the same can be said of Scenic Blast. Its like racing Frankel in Gr2 mile races he'd win by 10 lengths everytime but we wouldn't jump on the bandwagon like you Aussies have rating Black Caviar above Phar Lap for beating ridiculously inferior horses week in week out. If she delivers the goods in Europe I will hold My hands up but shes had 2 - 3 years to take a trip over the shores and still hasn't....
@LCSimberto been seen in Europe, I've no doubt shes a good horse but she will need to prove herself on the world stage to be mentioned in the same breath as Frankel. In his last start he received two cracks of the whip and saw off the Champion French Miler and the second best miler in the world in Immortal Verse and Excelebration hardly being HAMMERED you muppet. Stick to watching Black Caviar beating statues and bigging her up as the next Phar Lap. Its embarrasing...
@ASupremeOwl actually yes, i'v seen a LOT of races of frankel before making that comment and yes he is being hammered, black caviar is not beaten once towards the end of the race, and is easing off, and still making ground, but yep, i agree, she needs to go race frankel, to prove that she is the best, i know she will easily beat frankel, he wont even make a challenge to her.
@LCSimberto This is the only race of Frankel's that was ever close to a defeat...and this had nothing to do with the horse, but more to do with an absolutely horrendous ride by Tom Queally. The fact that Frankel held on to win this race speaks volumes about this animal. Queally setting him down at the 1/2 mile pole is ludicrous...if he had waited to push the button at a reasonable time (2, 2 1/2 furlongs or so), this too would have been a laugher.
@LCSimberto If you went three rounds with a prizefighter , you might still win but take a few punches on the way, however if you went three rounds with an elderly man of the cloth, you may still win and indeed come away unscathed, now you go and figure
@LCSimberto, To begin with, Black Caviar's a sprinter who's not likely to move up in trip, and Frankel is a miler looking to likely move up to at least 10f in 2012. So the likelihood of the 2 ever meeting on the same racetrack is very unlikely. So your really talking apples and oranges. IMO, if the 2 ever did meet? It would depend on the distance? 6f or less, I'd give Black Caviar the edge. 7f or further, I think Frankel would blitz her. TJMO.
@LCSimberto Not very smart are you lol Black Caviar is a great horse but she is a sprinter & has a completely different style of running.Frankel is losing ground in this race fair do,he wasn't losing ground Vs Canford Cliffs was he? course CC was the worlds highest rated older Mile or in English the best older miler in the world.He was losing ground in the Guineas too but maybe that's because he made all the running & the race was over after 4f.Go figure that.
@LCSimberto She hasn't won a 1 mile classic has she! She is without any doubts the worlds best sprinter.Frankel is not a sprinter but is without doubt the worlds best miler. Both are the best at what they do but they are completely different animals and both are ridden completely different.Also don't talk about the amount of races they have had as Black Caviar has been racing for longer than Frankel.Frankel is 9 & 0 if he was the same age by average his record would be better lol
@LCSimberto im not really gonnfrankel vs black cavier debate, both are astounding racehorses, but one is a sprinter and the other is a miler/10f horse. anyone . ANYONE that cant understand that he won this race DESPITE the jockey error doesnt know v much! horse racing is about using your energy EVENLY, its a miricle he won. if luke nolen asked BC to go clear after a furlong you would seen the thing happen! in this case tom actually thought the pacemaker was gonna nick the race!
@LCSimberto have people actually seen black caviar race? ive watched all of frankel's races, yes the horse has an amazing turn of speed but he is basically at full throttle for the final sprint every race, No one has ever seen black caviar at full throttle yet she wins every race going away from her opposition, Black Caviar is the best sprinter the world has ever seen yet she stepped up to 1400m for the 1st time and smashed them on the weekend. Only the absolute freak of natures can do that.
@raff23 Im saying that black caviar is the best? so your sort of contradicting yourself, though i watched black caviars 1400m, best start shes ever had
@raff23 please will people stop with the hysteria over BCs last race. Now they are saying that BC could smash Frankel over 8f at Ascot, if they are basing that after her last race they are delusional. Can you imagine what Frankel would do to the likes of a horse like Opinion Poll racing over 10f where that pretty much walk the first 5f and then have a sprint til the end? Because that is all BC has done in her last race. Yes she has great cruising speed, but could she sit behind Frankel when
@raff23 he is slowly winding up the pace for 5f and then still have her turn of foot towards the back end of a 8f race in the UK? I doubt that very much and if she could i think we would all hold our hands up but it is just pie in the sky at the moment. We don't even know if she can get a fast paced 1400m let alone a stiff 8f at Ascot.
probably shouldn't even get involved, but the races he's run this season have been anything BUT laid out for him. He's generally had to do his own (and everyone's) donkey work out front. Pacemaker went nuts in this one which is why Queally pressed the button marked 'overdrive' without realising he was sitting in the Batmobile.... and last w/e all the others were trying to get him beat so sat and watched. Didn't work. Next year's going to be good.
And another "stablemate pacemaker" how can you regard this horse as a great.... your all not serious. He struggles to win each time despite having the race laid out for him. Around the world you'd be called out for cheating racing like this. If he wants to be called a great he'll race without being baby sat to the win. Quite embarrassing.
@CannyBeSerious Have you actually revised the form of Frankel or watched any of his races? He ran a Guinea's like a sprinter opening a gap of 15 lengths on some of the best milers in Europe and still won by a cosy 6 lengths. He was hard ridden for 4 furlongs and still won a St James Palace, The class of the horse won him this race, It was a terrible ride. He destroyed Canford Cliffs the former best miler in the world by a cosy 5 lengths and then he hacks up in the QE2 beating the two top...
@CannyBeSerious milers in Europe beside Frankel by 3 and 7 1/2 lengths. Hes seen off a future Epsom Derby runner up/ Irish Derby winner, A future King George winner, An Irish 2000 Guineas winner, A July Cup/Prix De La Foret/Haydock Sprint cup winner, A Prix De La Moulin, Prix De Le Jacque Marois winner in one season with utter ease. His form is rock solid. Black Caviar races the same old horses everytime she steps on a track. Haylist, Star Witness Zzzzzz...
@CannyBeSerious Shes never stepped over 6f whereas I'd have been confident in backing Frankel in the July Cup the way he ran the 2000 Guinea's (Go have a look at that one) Frankel's won at 7f, 8f on all types of ground. Versatile and a true Champion. He'll be stepping up to 10f next year winning the worlds top races whilsts Black Caviar will be sticking to her cosy 6f. To even mention her in the same breath as a horse rated 142 by Timeform is embarrasing...
frankel will never be beat you lot no fuck all this horse has beaten every top miler in the uk queally fucked up this is race but oh well still won wait till its matured more than this no fucker will get near it and thats a fact not a guess
@KennedyROI Black Caviar would give him a race at a mile. They say they are going to extend her in our autumn to at least 7.5f and maybe 8f. She is the only horse with the sheer ability to worry him, but I doubt they will ever face off.
@schardy80 its just not geographically likely. No way will Cecil allow his horse travel to Australia. its hard enough to get Henry to go to France. Equally BC if she ever comes to Europe will be aimed at the 6 furlong race at Royal Ascot and the July Cup. The match up just won't happen.
@tigerarmyrule Yes I know it won't happen, talking hypothetically. After what I saw today in the QEII I have to admit she would almost certainly not be able to beat him at a mile. You just cannot be as fast as she is and carry it to a mile at the standard he has set. That said, she is IMO just as amazing at what she does. Cannot wait for the rest of the world to see it for themselves. But hats off to Frankel, he is one for the ages no doubt at all.
@schardy80 I would agree with you. BC is a sprinter. Frankel is by a derby winner and will likely excel at 10F and has excelled at 8F. They are fundamentally different types. Both unbeaten both with a string of group 1 wins. Both excellent.
@debbider your a fucking idiot, youve been on sea the stars video calling that over rated, now your going to sit and slag probably the best miler ever, your either just looking for an arguement or so clueless and know nothing about the sport, grow up you embarrasment
Yes but...English trainers, along with their horses, have all got class, breeding, ability and history- Unfortunately, you Americans are all devoid of these characteristics..oh well...
@TheAmanda154 Black Caviars a wonderful sprinter who looks like she could get a mile from her last win. Would love to see her race Frankel over a mile. But SYT is my favourite horse a absolute stunning imposing horse that is an absolute machine. And a true kiwi champion. And will win the Arc if Coolmore give him a shot.
@john131349 Agreed. Pour Moi, Baraan, Workforce and Nathaniel would all dominate SYT over 12 Furlongs. Hes not racing in Micky Mouse land now (Australia) This is Europe. The home of the true champions...
@TheAmanda154 Later on in the year in december their was going to be a highly anticipated showdown between BC and RocketMan the champion from Singapore at flemington in melbourne in the g1 Patnack farm stakes. But thats not been put on ice because Rocketmans connections will have problems with quarintine in getting RM to the main objective this year the hong kong sprint.
@TheAmanda154 In one of her g1 wins she smashed a 100 yr old weight carrying record and race record carrying 58kgs and winning in a electrifying time of 1.06 and change eased down 50metres from the line on the bridle with the second best sprinter on the planet haylist 5lengths back in 2nd in the G1 Newmarket Hcp.
@TheAmanda154 Sven is a walking encyclopedia on all things racing and along with bgardiner2000 also from oz and Gberet83 from the states in my opinion are 3 of the most knowledgable posters on youtube. Black Caviar is a phenomenal sprinter. 13 wins from 13starts, 5 130 plus race ratings 6g1s in a row she only raced 3 times as a 2 and 3 yr old because of injury.
@Spursrule1969 SYT sucks does he? Your just angry he's over in Europe cleaning up your G1 races. If i'm being honest Tottenham hotspur suck shit clown. How long has it taken for the team to make it to the Champions league? The only good thing about the spurs is Gareth Bale and he will soon transfer to a bigger european club when offered a better deal. If SYT sucks what does that say about the European horses?
@Watchinginawe I read your post about making 32,500 profit starting with 2,500 on Nathaniel at 9/1 in the KG.Then putting 10,000 on Frankel in the Sussex Stakes. Well done!
@SoulSurvivor79 Thanks mate, I'm not one to boast like that but I temporarily lost my cool at a brain dead contributor yanking my chain. Couldn't believe Nathaniel's price, his costly supplementation for the race told me everything I needed to know. I've never been overly impressed with St. Nicholas Abbey and the onIy one I was worried about was poor Rewilding. I don't claim any kudos for backing Frankel, he's the best horse I've ever seen (and Sir Henry!) Take it easy buddy
@TheAmanda154 I thought you had accepted my apology? Now your saying i stick the boot in? Seriously atleast i have the respect of atleast checking out footage of your continents champions before making judgement on a horse.
@TheAmanda154 spot on, Amanda. I know they say it takes all sorts but some of the opinions expressed here are difficult to fathom. For me, to understand the greatness of an animal like Frankel, all you need is a pair of fully functional eyes. No great intelligence or insight, just the ability to see. Yet the number of people who deny the flaming obvious is extraordinary. Sometimes it gets you down, but then I just think of the next race and the prospect of unlimited and joyous bragging rights.
@watchinginawe Amanda, can I pick your brains about a couple of horses who I think are underrated & rarely get mentioned in the list of 'greats.' I have a real soft spot for Pebbles & loved it when 'England's super filly wins the Breeders Cup!' But the performance that really stands out for me was the 1985 Champion Stakes when she absolutely decimated a class field. The other horse I feel is underrated is Generous, who was a devastating winner of the Derby and King George. How did you rate them?
@TheAmanda154 It's good to see you back posting. Sorry also for the other day. I felt bad when you said you weren't posting again. Watchinginawe was getting worried by the look of his posts. Yeah your right SYT does race like Dubai Millenium in that he likes to race on the pace. I like him for the Arc as well.
@TheAmanda154 great to have you back, Amanda! There have been some dodgy comments posted in your absence, I'm sure the standard will soon be on the way up.
@TheAmanda154 Hey you, behave! I've smoothed it over with the soulman and he seems like a decent fella to me. Emotions just ran high, that's all. If you don't keep posting I'm going to start a petition, so ya better ok!! Keep smiling, it's all good
In the Fr 1000 she beat Goldikova 2L which looks outstanding, However Freddy Head has admitted he'd trained Goldi to get further, It was only after she lost over 10 furlongs that he trained her as a miler. Like i say big fan of Zarkava but i just struggle to give a accurate rating, Visually she looked great in the Arc' but the final furlong time is poor compared to Dancing Brave. I just tried hand-timing Frankel last furlong in the Sussex (not easy, you dont see the furlong pole) I had 11.0 sec.
Also by your logic Blame must be the GREATEST as he beat Zenyatta, How is it you can excuse Mike Smith's bad ride but when other champions lose they were not good enough? Zenyatta beat Twice Over 3L, PLEASE like he's a Champion. I love Zarkava but it's hard to value her form, Beating Youmzain isn't exactly great, In the Vermeilles she beat Dar Re Mi, Yeah good form but nothing special, In the Diane she beat Gagnoa & Goldikova, Gagnoa did nothing afterwards and Goldi didn't stay,
@TheAmanda154 Shouldn't really be talking about other horses in a Frankel thread but hey-ho, No i'm not a ratings fanatic, I try and evaluate by myself, But the nonsense to suggest that Zenyatta or Zarkava last to first was remotely close to what Dancing Brave did in the Arc' is ludicrous, Zarkava 2009 arc final furlong 11.6 seconds, Zenyatta last 200yds 11.1 (a furlong as you know is 220yd, so add another second on 12.1) Dancing Brave (electronically timed 10.8)
@TheAmanda154 First and foremost i apologise for the name calling it was below the belt.And you have as much right to post comments as anyone else so keep posting you have alot of knowledge on european racing.I won't post negative comments towards you again. And i hope Frankel goes up in distance and proves himself as a all time great.He sure has the raw talent to be one of the greatest with what he's done so far. Have a good weekend!
@watchinginawe Sorry bud, i will restrain myself in future. The Amanda154 acts like she's the authority on european racing in a arrogant manner. Yeah i went to far but i will stick up for SYT if need be.I know Frankels a freak but surely this season would be the time to step up in distance to claim the greatest tag. And SYT is a NZ bred horse who is a champion and has never ducked any horse at any distance.
@SoulSurvivor79 fair play to you mate, thanks for replying. It's really interesting to hear everyone's opinions because they are so varied and we all think we are right, of course! I guess the great thing is that this horse really has got everyone talking and that's fantastic for racing. I really don't think the Frankel team are trying to duck anyone, it seems to me they have a 2 phase plan for him ie it'll just be the mile this year and they'll go further next year. Some great races coming up!
@SoulSurvivor79 be nice buddy, no need for all those nasty words. Hey, what's a Kiwi getting all worked up about racing for anyway? You guys are all rugby mad, aren't ya? Hope your guys win this one, it'll be good for rugby just like Frankel is good for racing.
@TheAmanda154 yep, when you put it like that it really is incredible what he has done to some very strong opposition. You know your racing really well, glad you're enjoying Frankel so much. When he exploded at about 1 1/2f to go on Wed it was such an exciting moment to realise that you're watching something so exceptional. I suddenly realised I was shouting out like a madman! I find myself just counting down the days to his next run!
@TheAmanda154 I'm from NZ. So what your saying is you can praise Frankel to a point that you would probably suck his dick yet i can't praise the champ? I've seen your past posts and your a arrogant cunt. I'm boring haha!. Bring on Frankel lets see who the best horse is in the international. Thats right the connections dropped balls and chose the QE2! Don't reply you disgrace me!
@TheAmanda154 Ah well, the supporters of other horses are going to get to experience the "Hughes/Hannon headscratching and I don't understand what happened there" experience!
@TheAmanda154 Isn't it weird Amanda how some people don't get it? Sometimes you need to read between the lines. What blew me away about the 2000G was that they decided to run in that fashion. Sir Henry was telling the world " I have got an absolute monster here and I'm going to show you all what he can do." To plan to win like that you must know you're not only the best, but you're the best by a huge margin, in a championship race. His demolition of CC yesterday was even more breathtaking.
@TheAmanda154 Your talking out your arse. SYT wouldn't need help to defeat Frankel in the Juddmonte International. Thats what the Sir Michael Stoute stable tried to do for Workforce in the Eclipse but it didn't work haha! By the way are you a guy or a women? Your names fucked up.
Just as i thought the connections of Frankel sticking to 8f races. He needs to move up to 10f or 12f races like the international,champion or arc to be classed better than horses like Dancing Brave at 3yrs old. Don't get me wrong he's a beast at a mile but it' all speculation at the moment the horse might not even stay just like el gran senor or dubai millenium at 12f. SYT will win the international he's a beast on anti clockwise tracks! Go SYT!
Frankel's next race ( and final race of this season ) will be the all aged mile Group QEII at Ascot - where he will clash with Canford Cliffs again. So You Think couldn't blow smoke up Frankel's arse.
@SoulSurvivor79 I'm not into internet bickering, just trying to give you a heads up. Frankel will destroy So You Think just as he did Canford Cliffs. Personally, I'm finding it difficult to understand how some people are refusing to believe the glaringly obvious about the magnitude of Frankel's greatness. There are a group of very good horses around the world along the lines of SYT, Workforce etc all relatively close in standard. Then there is Frankel. He is in a totally different league.
@TheAmanda154 Thought Dancing Brave and El Gran Senor where outstanding but you think Zenyatta and Zarkava would come close? You are clueless if you rate Zen and Zark better than DB and EGS.
Zarkava (Official Rating 128, Timeform rating 133) Zenyatta (OR 128, T 131) Dancing Brave( OR 140, T 140) El Gran Senor (T 136)
@TheAmanda154 Grovel, grovel, grovel. You were right. I was wrong. Hope you won't demand that I walk from Goodwood to Newmarket in a pink and green "I Heart Frankel" shirt.
let me be one of the first to congratulate sir frankel sir h,cecil and sir t,queely on beating canford cliffs to day at goodwood.i have my reservations and i will keep them to myself.let all who are attached to frankel and the team enjoy the moment over and out.
@TheAmanda154 Yep, despite Henry's efforts to downplay things after the guineas I knew that we had seen something totally extraordinary on 2 levels - firstly the performance itself was incredible and unprecedented. But more importantly the fact that Henry was prepared to try and blow the field apart like that in a championship race told me that he knew Frankel was a total freak of a horse that he wanted to show off to the world! And how! Then and now the hairs are still up on my neck!
FRANKEL YOU BEAUTY!!!! That was fantastic!!!!!! Everyone please cut the bickering and just enjoy this brilliant racehorse. What he has just done to Canford is mind-blowing. Listen to Sir Henry "this is the best horse I have ever seen." !!!! Trust me, this animal could easily get 10f and I still think he'd be devastating over 12f. If you disagree, would you want to be a bookie laying him?He just cruised that today, that was AWESOME.
@TheAmanda154 Some information: previous winners aren't allowed to run in Maiden races; there is no such race as the Irish 200 guineas; there is no horse called Rio Del Plata. You are obviously a big racing enthusiast and good luck to you but you need to brush up on your facts if you want people to take your views seriously. Try the RP website. And for the umpteenth time, I do believe that Frankel MIGHT be a great horse, it's just that I think his achievements so far have been over-rated.
@TheAmanda154 Dear Amanda, as your idea of of "rock hard" form seems to involve thinking that the result of a maiden race 11 months ago is somehow relevant to the result of today's King George, I think the kindest thing might be to ignore your comments. As I said, we'll know about Frankel's real rating soon enough, and I will be perfectly happy to admit that I was wrong if he bolts up in the Sussex. Hope that Frankel's fans won't be making excuses or blaming the jockey if CC "does" him.
My opinion, This horse is goin to beat CC.. Frankel looks the real deal! His stride, his turn of foot, when hes asked hes gone! He shattered every horse put in front of him! Now i know he hasn't met a CC's which i am a big fan of but Frankel is goin to get better nd better! This is the first race where he was really settled even at da start and given a more positive ride i honestly think Canford cliffs cant beat him! Ive won alot of money off CC but i will be backing against him this time!
The Guineas was a freak result, as many of the fancied horses were not ridden out in the last 3 furlongs. If you think that the form was reliable, then you are asking us to believe that Dubawi Gold is around 60lbs superior to Roderic O'Connor. Frankel is an exceptional horse, but his rating is too high by 5 or 6 lbs. The Sussex is a very close call, but I slightly favour CC. We'll all know by this time next week.
@tigerboy1966 i am so glad that someonr els is on the same waveline as me thank you for putting this up i have tried for ages to explain it like you just have.
frankel won at ascot in sptie of queally, not because of him.
with regards to referring to his guineas win as a freak performance, i am by no means diminishing the performance. it was brilliance at its best but one unlikely to be seen again. it is along simliar lines to hawk wings lockinge and denmans gold cup wins.
as for queally in the st james palace- there was absolutely no need for him to kick on so early. he blundered and only frankels ability bailed ihm out.
Dewhurst, bumped lit up no cover, win, Greenham, 82% fit no cover, win, Guineas headwind front run, win, STJP launched 4f out ! , win. must be like running with 10lb more than the rest each time, if he can handle that don't make me laugh about handling G1 Goodwood, i love CC but Frankels not the sort of 3 yr old he played with last year
FRANKEL....OVERRATED MILER....
duhru4real 6 days ago
@duhru4real DUHRU4REAL......COMPLETE MORON.......
regginald81 5 days ago
I have never seen such a terrible ride. If the jockey had held Frankel back and accelerated at the 400m it would have won by 4 lengths in a canter. English racing is so primitive compared to Australian racing.
314159192829 1 week ago
not very convincing frankel. what a flogging those horses get over there..why go so fricken early, spent with 1f left to go..??
mixedone12345 2 weeks ago
frankel runs against top class horses and black caviar runs against donkeys
chloie06 3 weeks ago
@chloie06 Frankel runs against some donkeys too , just as Black Caviar does. They've both beaten some very good horses aswell.
MrJakobBrown 3 weeks ago
This is the closest you'll ever see Frankel come to being beaten at a mile, IMO. And If he had lost this race, it wouldn't have been his fault. Shitty ride by Tom Queally on Frankel at Ascot for this race, and that's being kind. And to LCSimberto, who keeps debating a Frankel vs. Black Caviar race, it's like comparing apples with oranges. One's a sprinter, who's not likely to stretch beyond 6f. The other's been a miler looking to step up to 10f in 2012. At what distance do you purpose they race?
GBeret83 3 weeks ago
I'm sure Tom had his instructions, but in truth, he panicked on this occasion! and Frankel got him out of jail! So to speak !
In stark contrast, Tom rode a peach of a race
Next time out!
This is a golden era in horse racing, and I believe Frankel can go on to greater heights this season.
Good luck Frankel and all the team at Warren Place.
shaffi1 3 weeks ago
frankel is a fucking demon that horse has got some speed
bcfczuluwarrior2011 1 month ago
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three.
What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
DeathTaxBlackCaviar 1 month ago
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar you need to look at the horses they've beaten.
Frankel has beaten Excelebration (1x Gp1 winner), Immortal Voice (1x Gp1), Dick Turpin (1x Gp1), Poet's Voice (1x Gp1), Canford Cliffs (5x Gp1), Rio de la Plata (1x Gp1), Zoffany (1x Gp1), Dream Ahead (5x Gp1), Wootton Bassett (2x Gp1), Pathfork (1x Gp1), Casamento (1x Gp1), Roderic O'Connor (2x Gp1), Treasure Beach (1x Gp1), Nathaniel (1x Gp1)
I don't know if Black Caviar can match that.
chivauk 1 month ago
Watch them going round the bend. Frankel is cruising into the lead while all of the others are struggling to do anything but lose length after length. He won this race after 4 furlongs through forcing the opposition to push too soon and so they didn't have enough energy to catch him. Take out Zoffany and this was an easy win over Exelebration. If you look at 3 furlongs, Zoffany is the only horse who isn't tying to win the race. The others did and hence couldn't get near him. That = 3/4 length.
CharlesOlney23 1 month ago
Glad i watched this.....black caviare has never had ground taken off her...and wouldnt know what the whip is......she'll flog frankel
thialand100 1 month ago
THIS MILER IS NEVER EVER GOING TO RUN 10 FURLONGS......
the are just hyping this horse just like that overrated Rachel pretending to skip the 2009 Classic and Travers because of nonsense excuses.....truth is Rachel cannot win at 10 furlongs on PLASTIC OR ANY SURFACE.....but i know plenty of you swallowed that BS...
lol
duhru4real 2 months ago
Without a doubt, this is closest you're ever likely to see Frankel ever beaten at a mile. And it wasn't really the horse's fault he was nearly nailed late by Zoffany in this race anyway, IMO. A less than stellar ride by Tom Queally, to say the least. JMO.
GBeret83 2 months ago
I like
nat3244 3 months ago
I did not like the way Frankel was ridden! Fortunately, he surpasses bad rides as this one!
supercougar1000 3 months ago
I did not liked the way Frankel was ridden in this race! He is a tremendous champion that goes away from bad rides!
supercougar1000 3 months ago
JUST ANOTHER OVERRATED MILER.....
they will never put this horse in a 10 furlong race.....
duhru4real 3 months ago
@duhru4real This Animal will win from 6f -10f. And Sir Henry wont be afriad to step him up. He got a bad ride in this race. IMO
FishkieOvRingland99 1 month ago
...are avoiding her, and he would beat anything racing in the UK, such is the awe she engenders. They can't get decent opposition for her, becuase there isn't any. Frankel would be just another notch on her belt if her connection have the courage to try her on. I hope they do, becuase if the brits consider him an immortal, what would that make her - the greatest sprinter the world has ever seen!
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
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SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl black caviar has barely been 'ridden out' to the line in all but one of her starts, hence why her sectionals might be misleading. she has either been eased up or not even whipped at all.... the race i'm referring to is the TJ smith, she ran home in 1:08.71 for the last 200m where she was sitting close to the speed with a leader (a champion in his own right) that tried to run her off her feat. Race tactics dont effect champions... wish i could say the same for frankel in this race.
bbaacckkeerrss 3 months ago
Dream on Nautilus 1972. Check Black caviars sectional times...They are quicker than Frankels. Any way...bring on a match race . We could gesticulate until the cows come home...
beejay62 3 months ago
@beejay62 Since Black Caviar is a sprinter then I'd have thought her sectional times would be quicker than a horse who as been running over a mile. Black Caviar couldn't keep that pace for a full mile hence the reason she is a sprinter. A mile would stretch her to the maximum I feel. I would love to see Frankel and Black Caviar race over 7f. Surely the fairest distance?
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl You misconstrue the nature of these ratings. They are for a maximium performance in a single race, hence over a particular distance under particular conditions . They do not make a horse the best in the world. The most that can be said is that Frankel has attained the highest rating for a mile race. Black Caviar has been rated at 130 for 6f, but dropped because the ratings are for performances within the period stated. He has never been rated over 6f, nor she over 8f.
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Why are you telling Me how to suck eggs? I've been watching racing long enough to understand that the ratings are based on one race. Its like the rating Sea The Stars received for his win the Arc of 140, Theres noway that win was more impressive than the way Dancing Brave dispatched a field like he did in 1986 and to recieve the same rating of 140, Scandulous. Besides the point Frankel as received an OR of 135 for his win the QE2 whilst BC as gained an maximum of 127...
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
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SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl You may know how to suck eggs, as you put it, but you are communicating to the world at large. There may be others out there who hang on your every word, and may accept your characterisation based on ratings whether intended or not. I know you are no mug, Owl, and pay you the courtesy of a considered reply. Now let's get back to the racing... different rating agencies generate different ratings because they are guided by different methodologies and subjective criteria.
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski for her career over 6f, The point I make is Im sure Frankel could run over 6f and gain a rating of 127 easily but could Black Caviar run over 8 furlongs espcially in Europe on some of the toughest tracks and not a carpet like she is used to in Australia and recieve the same rating of 135? Highly unlikely, Thus the reason Frankel is deservedly and righfully the BEST in the world...
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl They are neither right or wrong. Merely qualitative assessments of the respective value of particular performances. The IFHA is the accepted international rating authority. It has Frankel at 135 and Black Caviar at 128 for the April to October rating period - she has 130 for her annual rating based on her Newmarket run in March. All we can say about that is that the Authority considered his QE2 perfromance 5lb better than her T J Smith run.
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl I appreciate the way you construct an argument, Owl. I want you to know that. And I agree with your assessment of Frankel's capacity to stretch his ability to 10f or even longer. I have gone back through his 9 generations and it is exciting to see a lot of stout and professional blood there. He won t dissapoint. But he will not beat Black Caviar in a sprint. Nothing will. She is the best we have ever seen - anywhere. The more I research she has has done the more...
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Sorry the reason Frankel is 'rated' the best in the world... 6f, 7f, 8f, 10f do not look to be a problem for Frankel. Im sure he would have been Champion Sprinter and equalled BC's rating of 130 over 6f had he stepped down to that trip, He was running 11 second furlongs in the Guineas for the first 5 furlongs on the Rowley mile which is probably the toughest mile straight in the world. Hes won over 7 furlongs, And was rated the best in the world over 8 furlongs and like...
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl It doesn't entitle him to claim World Champion status, just the highest rated horse. You make these exhorbitant claims for what he might do to her over 6f, but they are utterly without foundation. We have a very detailed idea of what she does in her races because of the availability of sectional time your racing clubs refuse to obtain. She gets out in about 13 secs for the first furlong, cruised at a fraction over 10 secs and then eased in the last fourlong to about 11 to 12.
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl Like all great champions, she ups the rate on or before the turn, races a way and then switches off. Frankel does the same thing, which is a measure of his greatness. His fastest furlong in the QE2 was, as you know 10.99, or about 4 lens slower than her average at that stahge of the race. Now you will tell me that the Rowley course undulates. This fast sectional was partly downhill. Sure, he ran a mile, but they crawlwd for the first two furlongs. She would blind him with speed!
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl astounded I become. For example, in the Newmarket (carrying 9st 1lb) her final 1000m was run in 53.61 on a dead track eased up (the world 5f record by Procreate at Gulfstream Park is 53.79s). Look at the race again with that in mind and seriously tell me whether any other horse on the Planet could do that. Official WR for 4f is 43.76. She has bettered that on 6 occasions, eased up on dead tracks. She is in a new zone, Owl. The connections of outstanding sprinters like Sepoy...
SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Sir Henry Cecil as said ' He will get 10 furlongs standing on his head ' The horse is a freak, Could the same be said about Black Caviar could she win a Gr1 over a mile? Or is she all speed and 6f is her only real distance? This is why Frankel is so highly rated he is so versatile in terms of distance and ground. And why I made the point about ratings. 130 over 6 furlongs, Frankel would laugh at that...
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
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SvendBosanvovski 3 months ago
Hopefully Zoffany can uphold the form in the breeders.
Nautilus1972 3 months ago in playlist Frankel
Caviar does it with ease again today, gallops to the finish, while this pretender is whipping it like crazy, read into it what you will
TodgeAFL 3 months ago
@TodgeAFL Okay then. Beaten nothing and continues to beat nothing on a regular basis. Timeform ratings do not lie. Frankel = 142.
Nautilus1972 3 months ago in playlist Frankel
@Nautilus1972 beaten nothing? ...scenic blast winner of the king stand & lightning stakes (two of the worlds premier sprints), star witness 2nd in the king stand stakes, hay list arguably the 2nd best sprinter in the world right now and winner of the manikato and all aged stakes both at group 1, crystal lily winner of the golden slipper (world richest 2yo race)... she has beaten the best at both WFA and Handicap conditions now the best are avoiding her to save embarrassment
bbaacckkeerrss 3 months ago
@Nautilus1972 why do you think it beats nothing all the time? It's cause noone wants to race against it cause they know they don't have a chance! Besides have you watched it race Haylist, i wouldn't call Haylist nothing it was beating the field by 5 lengths while caviar was still beating it by 5! Next Autumn we'll see what happens hey, but i can tell you now, Caviar under the whip is gonna be frightening. I can't wait!
TodgeAFL 3 months ago
less than convincing...Black Caviar would blow Frankel away !!!!
beeejay62 3 months ago
@beeejay62 Comments like that are stupid when you have to go back nearly 40 years to find a Flat horse that has been rated more highly by Timeform than Frankel.
Nautilus1972 3 months ago in playlist Frankel
@beeejay62 Blow Frankel away at what distance? Its ok making outlandish comments like that but Frankel would probably give Black Caviar a test over 6f but Im not confident in thinking she could match the mighty Frankel over 7 and 8 furlongs... The ratings speak for themself. Frankel 135 Black Caviar 128
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
Black Caviar would eat this horse for breakfast, sorry but LCSimberto is right, Nolen doesn't even touch her and she flies. Let's see how he does without a pace maker ;-)
juddyau 3 months ago
@juddyau uhm! You obviously didn't see the 200 guineas then?
watchinginawe 2 months ago
It remains to be seen, but Atlantic Jewel could sit alongside Frankel and then outsprint him. Black Caviar is a sprinter over 1200m.
Jimmy911ism 4 months ago in playlist classic races 2011
This has been flagged as spam show
@Jimmy911ism I will suspect you are trolling but if you are not, you clearly have a lot to learn about racing.
HadleyReisMC 4 months ago
mrthebigblue whatever ur name is.....u need a pacemaker for frankel to win....bc will shit all over ur frankel
hay list will beet frankel
jacksonarmour4912 4 months ago
@jacksonarmour4912 Aussies just can't admit our horses in Europe are a lot better than your bunch. Frankel would piss all over Black Cavier/ Hay List.. it's actually funny though because Frankel is rated 10lbs+ superior to BC
HadleyReisMC 4 months ago
Funny how black caviar doesn't race any good horses.
MrThebigblueone 4 months ago
@MrThebigblueone it is supposed to be coming over to the UK next year so then we'll see i am reserving judgement until then
DeathKitty123456 4 months ago
for people saying that frankel will easily beat black caviar, well its funny how caviar's jockey sits there and just lets her go without doing anything at all, he is EASING her off towards the end of races, and still getting further and further away from the others, frankel is being HAMMERED by his jockey, and loses ground to the others everystride, go figure.
LCSimberto 4 months ago 11
@LCSimberto Black Caviar as raced nothing of note in the world. Haylist an ageing sprinter and the same can be said of Scenic Blast. Its like racing Frankel in Gr2 mile races he'd win by 10 lengths everytime but we wouldn't jump on the bandwagon like you Aussies have rating Black Caviar above Phar Lap for beating ridiculously inferior horses week in week out. If she delivers the goods in Europe I will hold My hands up but shes had 2 - 3 years to take a trip over the shores and still hasn't....
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
@LCSimberto been seen in Europe, I've no doubt shes a good horse but she will need to prove herself on the world stage to be mentioned in the same breath as Frankel. In his last start he received two cracks of the whip and saw off the Champion French Miler and the second best miler in the world in Immortal Verse and Excelebration hardly being HAMMERED you muppet. Stick to watching Black Caviar beating statues and bigging her up as the next Phar Lap. Its embarrasing...
ASupremeOwl 3 months ago
@ASupremeOwl actually yes, i'v seen a LOT of races of frankel before making that comment and yes he is being hammered, black caviar is not beaten once towards the end of the race, and is easing off, and still making ground, but yep, i agree, she needs to go race frankel, to prove that she is the best, i know she will easily beat frankel, he wont even make a challenge to her.
LCSimberto 3 months ago
@LCSimberto This is the only race of Frankel's that was ever close to a defeat...and this had nothing to do with the horse, but more to do with an absolutely horrendous ride by Tom Queally. The fact that Frankel held on to win this race speaks volumes about this animal. Queally setting him down at the 1/2 mile pole is ludicrous...if he had waited to push the button at a reasonable time (2, 2 1/2 furlongs or so), this too would have been a laugher.
MBernier08 2 months ago
@LCSimberto If you went three rounds with a prizefighter , you might still win but take a few punches on the way, however if you went three rounds with an elderly man of the cloth, you may still win and indeed come away unscathed, now you go and figure
delboy271 2 months ago
@LCSimberto, To begin with, Black Caviar's a sprinter who's not likely to move up in trip, and Frankel is a miler looking to likely move up to at least 10f in 2012. So the likelihood of the 2 ever meeting on the same racetrack is very unlikely. So your really talking apples and oranges. IMO, if the 2 ever did meet? It would depend on the distance? 6f or less, I'd give Black Caviar the edge. 7f or further, I think Frankel would blitz her. TJMO.
GBeret83 2 months ago
@LCSimberto Not very smart are you lol Black Caviar is a great horse but she is a sprinter & has a completely different style of running.Frankel is losing ground in this race fair do,he wasn't losing ground Vs Canford Cliffs was he? course CC was the worlds highest rated older Mile or in English the best older miler in the world.He was losing ground in the Guineas too but maybe that's because he made all the running & the race was over after 4f.Go figure that.
MrConnolly25 4 weeks ago
@MrConnolly25 ok i will, hmm black caviar has raced 17 races, oh whats that? shes WON all 17 races! each race by atleast 3 strides!
LCSimberto 4 weeks ago
@LCSimberto She hasn't won a 1 mile classic has she! She is without any doubts the worlds best sprinter.Frankel is not a sprinter but is without doubt the worlds best miler. Both are the best at what they do but they are completely different animals and both are ridden completely different.Also don't talk about the amount of races they have had as Black Caviar has been racing for longer than Frankel.Frankel is 9 & 0 if he was the same age by average his record would be better lol
MrConnolly25 4 weeks ago
@LCSimberto im not really gonnfrankel vs black cavier debate, both are astounding racehorses, but one is a sprinter and the other is a miler/10f horse. anyone . ANYONE that cant understand that he won this race DESPITE the jockey error doesnt know v much! horse racing is about using your energy EVENLY, its a miricle he won. if luke nolen asked BC to go clear after a furlong you would seen the thing happen! in this case tom actually thought the pacemaker was gonna nick the race!
ilikewavingatbuses 3 weeks ago
@LCSimberto have people actually seen black caviar race? ive watched all of frankel's races, yes the horse has an amazing turn of speed but he is basically at full throttle for the final sprint every race, No one has ever seen black caviar at full throttle yet she wins every race going away from her opposition, Black Caviar is the best sprinter the world has ever seen yet she stepped up to 1400m for the 1st time and smashed them on the weekend. Only the absolute freak of natures can do that.
raff23 2 weeks ago
@raff23 Im saying that black caviar is the best? so your sort of contradicting yourself, though i watched black caviars 1400m, best start shes ever had
LCSimberto 2 weeks ago
@raff23 please will people stop with the hysteria over BCs last race. Now they are saying that BC could smash Frankel over 8f at Ascot, if they are basing that after her last race they are delusional. Can you imagine what Frankel would do to the likes of a horse like Opinion Poll racing over 10f where that pretty much walk the first 5f and then have a sprint til the end? Because that is all BC has done in her last race. Yes she has great cruising speed, but could she sit behind Frankel when
regginald81 2 weeks ago
@raff23 he is slowly winding up the pace for 5f and then still have her turn of foot towards the back end of a 8f race in the UK? I doubt that very much and if she could i think we would all hold our hands up but it is just pie in the sky at the moment. We don't even know if she can get a fast paced 1400m let alone a stiff 8f at Ascot.
regginald81 2 weeks ago
probably shouldn't even get involved, but the races he's run this season have been anything BUT laid out for him. He's generally had to do his own (and everyone's) donkey work out front. Pacemaker went nuts in this one which is why Queally pressed the button marked 'overdrive' without realising he was sitting in the Batmobile.... and last w/e all the others were trying to get him beat so sat and watched. Didn't work. Next year's going to be good.
ComteLafon 4 months ago
cannybeserious is a cunt imo.
drofheim 4 months ago 3
And another "stablemate pacemaker" how can you regard this horse as a great.... your all not serious. He struggles to win each time despite having the race laid out for him. Around the world you'd be called out for cheating racing like this. If he wants to be called a great he'll race without being baby sat to the win. Quite embarrassing.
CannyBeSerious 4 months ago
@CannyBeSerious Have you actually revised the form of Frankel or watched any of his races? He ran a Guinea's like a sprinter opening a gap of 15 lengths on some of the best milers in Europe and still won by a cosy 6 lengths. He was hard ridden for 4 furlongs and still won a St James Palace, The class of the horse won him this race, It was a terrible ride. He destroyed Canford Cliffs the former best miler in the world by a cosy 5 lengths and then he hacks up in the QE2 beating the two top...
ASupremeOwl 4 months ago
@CannyBeSerious milers in Europe beside Frankel by 3 and 7 1/2 lengths. Hes seen off a future Epsom Derby runner up/ Irish Derby winner, A future King George winner, An Irish 2000 Guineas winner, A July Cup/Prix De La Foret/Haydock Sprint cup winner, A Prix De La Moulin, Prix De Le Jacque Marois winner in one season with utter ease. His form is rock solid. Black Caviar races the same old horses everytime she steps on a track. Haylist, Star Witness Zzzzzz...
ASupremeOwl 4 months ago
@CannyBeSerious Shes never stepped over 6f whereas I'd have been confident in backing Frankel in the July Cup the way he ran the 2000 Guinea's (Go have a look at that one) Frankel's won at 7f, 8f on all types of ground. Versatile and a true Champion. He'll be stepping up to 10f next year winning the worlds top races whilsts Black Caviar will be sticking to her cosy 6f. To even mention her in the same breath as a horse rated 142 by Timeform is embarrasing...
ASupremeOwl 4 months ago
frankel will never be beat you lot no fuck all this horse has beaten every top miler in the uk queally fucked up this is race but oh well still won wait till its matured more than this no fucker will get near it and thats a fact not a guess
benstoke19 4 months ago
Frankel overrated?!?!? name 1 miler who could give him a race when hes rode correctly
KennedyROI 4 months ago
@KennedyROI Black Caviar would give him a race at a mile. They say they are going to extend her in our autumn to at least 7.5f and maybe 8f. She is the only horse with the sheer ability to worry him, but I doubt they will ever face off.
schardy80 4 months ago
@schardy80 its just not geographically likely. No way will Cecil allow his horse travel to Australia. its hard enough to get Henry to go to France. Equally BC if she ever comes to Europe will be aimed at the 6 furlong race at Royal Ascot and the July Cup. The match up just won't happen.
tigerarmyrule 4 months ago
@tigerarmyrule Yes I know it won't happen, talking hypothetically. After what I saw today in the QEII I have to admit she would almost certainly not be able to beat him at a mile. You just cannot be as fast as she is and carry it to a mile at the standard he has set. That said, she is IMO just as amazing at what she does. Cannot wait for the rest of the world to see it for themselves. But hats off to Frankel, he is one for the ages no doubt at all.
schardy80 4 months ago
@schardy80 I would agree with you. BC is a sprinter. Frankel is by a derby winner and will likely excel at 10F and has excelled at 8F. They are fundamentally different types. Both unbeaten both with a string of group 1 wins. Both excellent.
tigerarmyrule 4 months ago
Zoffany ran last in America against there donkey turf horses,LOL @ overrated Frankel
debbider 4 months ago
@debbider your a fucking idiot, youve been on sea the stars video calling that over rated, now your going to sit and slag probably the best miler ever, your either just looking for an arguement or so clueless and know nothing about the sport, grow up you embarrasment
joemynes 4 months ago
True It was dangerous.
round999444 4 months ago
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round999444 4 months ago
Frankel has pace but can't keep it up, if that race was longer by a furlong he would lose!!!
SCOTTinHd1 5 months ago
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SCOTTinHd1 5 months ago
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SCOTTinHd1 5 months ago
dont be stupid hes brilliant and iv met henry cecil and he is an amazing man
katrina2564 5 months ago
Frankel is no way overated
HS9069 5 months ago
ANOTHER OVERRATED MILER!!!!!!!!!!!!
duhru4real 5 months ago
Yes but...English trainers, along with their horses, have all got class, breeding, ability and history- Unfortunately, you Americans are all devoid of these characteristics..oh well...
MrNonch1 5 months ago
@guitarlegend32 Hes a limey prick and so are you. He couldnt train a goat to shit!
thehonzie1 5 months ago
@thehonzie1 u clearly know nothing about the game
HadleyReisMC 5 months ago
Look at the trainer Henry Cecil, I leave out the Sir by the way. What an arrogant prick and overrated,unrateable horse this is!!
thehonzie1 5 months ago
@thehonzie1 'Arrogant prick'.He's the most humble trainer in the world you grade 1 twat.
guitarlegend32 5 months ago
i still say this wasnt queallys finest hour in the saddle and it was only frankels class that saved his skin.
however he more than made up for it in the susses where frankel absolutely destroyed canford cliffs fair and square.
azertyuiop32 5 months ago
Just shows Frankel is an excellent horse but he can be had!!!!!
jockney7 5 months ago
cecil will make sure that wont happen again
benstoke19 6 months ago
An even worse ride from the jockey on the pacemaker if you ask me.
ComteLafon 6 months ago
I have always thought that Zoffany was something special, I am surprised he never did more.
irishgent 6 months ago
@TheAmanda154 I was looking on Betfair forum earlier are you Amandahugsnkisses?
SoulSurvivor79 6 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Black Caviars a wonderful sprinter who looks like she could get a mile from her last win. Would love to see her race Frankel over a mile. But SYT is my favourite horse a absolute stunning imposing horse that is an absolute machine. And a true kiwi champion. And will win the Arc if Coolmore give him a shot.
SoulSurvivor79 6 months ago
@SoulSurvivor79 and if Pour Moi/Workforce and Nathaniel dont run
john131349 6 months ago
@john131349 Agreed. Pour Moi, Baraan, Workforce and Nathaniel would all dominate SYT over 12 Furlongs. Hes not racing in Micky Mouse land now (Australia) This is Europe. The home of the true champions...
ASupremeOwl 6 months ago
@ASupremeOwl you muppet!!!
mattonker 5 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Later on in the year in december their was going to be a highly anticipated showdown between BC and RocketMan the champion from Singapore at flemington in melbourne in the g1 Patnack farm stakes. But thats not been put on ice because Rocketmans connections will have problems with quarintine in getting RM to the main objective this year the hong kong sprint.
SoulSurvivor79 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheAmanda154 In one of her g1 wins she smashed a 100 yr old weight carrying record and race record carrying 58kgs and winning in a electrifying time of 1.06 and change eased down 50metres from the line on the bridle with the second best sprinter on the planet haylist 5lengths back in 2nd in the G1 Newmarket Hcp.
SoulSurvivor79 6 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Sven is a walking encyclopedia on all things racing and along with bgardiner2000 also from oz and Gberet83 from the states in my opinion are 3 of the most knowledgable posters on youtube. Black Caviar is a phenomenal sprinter. 13 wins from 13starts, 5 130 plus race ratings 6g1s in a row she only raced 3 times as a 2 and 3 yr old because of injury.
SoulSurvivor79 6 months ago
Oops put my foot in it once again sorry The Amanda154. Maybe i need to go to specsavers after all and get my eyes tested.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@Spursrule1969 SYT sucks does he? Your just angry he's over in Europe cleaning up your G1 races. If i'm being honest Tottenham hotspur suck shit clown. How long has it taken for the team to make it to the Champions league? The only good thing about the spurs is Gareth Bale and he will soon transfer to a bigger european club when offered a better deal. If SYT sucks what does that say about the European horses?
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 You 2 love birds crack me up!
GET A ROOM.
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
@Watchinginawe I read your post about making 32,500 profit starting with 2,500 on Nathaniel at 9/1 in the KG.Then putting 10,000 on Frankel in the Sussex Stakes. Well done!
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@SoulSurvivor79 Thanks mate, I'm not one to boast like that but I temporarily lost my cool at a brain dead contributor yanking my chain. Couldn't believe Nathaniel's price, his costly supplementation for the race told me everything I needed to know. I've never been overly impressed with St. Nicholas Abbey and the onIy one I was worried about was poor Rewilding. I don't claim any kudos for backing Frankel, he's the best horse I've ever seen (and Sir Henry!) Take it easy buddy
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 I thought you had accepted my apology? Now your saying i stick the boot in? Seriously atleast i have the respect of atleast checking out footage of your continents champions before making judgement on a horse.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 spot on, Amanda. I know they say it takes all sorts but some of the opinions expressed here are difficult to fathom. For me, to understand the greatness of an animal like Frankel, all you need is a pair of fully functional eyes. No great intelligence or insight, just the ability to see. Yet the number of people who deny the flaming obvious is extraordinary. Sometimes it gets you down, but then I just think of the next race and the prospect of unlimited and joyous bragging rights.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@watchinginawe Amanda, can I pick your brains about a couple of horses who I think are underrated & rarely get mentioned in the list of 'greats.' I have a real soft spot for Pebbles & loved it when 'England's super filly wins the Breeders Cup!' But the performance that really stands out for me was the 1985 Champion Stakes when she absolutely decimated a class field. The other horse I feel is underrated is Generous, who was a devastating winner of the Derby and King George. How did you rate them?
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@watchinginawe Amanda will tell you, She beat Theatrical who beat Dancing Brave so she's better than him.
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 It's good to see you back posting. Sorry also for the other day. I felt bad when you said you weren't posting again. Watchinginawe was getting worried by the look of his posts. Yeah your right SYT does race like Dubai Millenium in that he likes to race on the pace. I like him for the Arc as well.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 great to have you back, Amanda! There have been some dodgy comments posted in your absence, I'm sure the standard will soon be on the way up.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Hey you, behave! I've smoothed it over with the soulman and he seems like a decent fella to me. Emotions just ran high, that's all. If you don't keep posting I'm going to start a petition, so ya better ok!! Keep smiling, it's all good
watchinginawe 7 months ago
In the Fr 1000 she beat Goldikova 2L which looks outstanding, However Freddy Head has admitted he'd trained Goldi to get further, It was only after she lost over 10 furlongs that he trained her as a miler. Like i say big fan of Zarkava but i just struggle to give a accurate rating, Visually she looked great in the Arc' but the final furlong time is poor compared to Dancing Brave. I just tried hand-timing Frankel last furlong in the Sussex (not easy, you dont see the furlong pole) I had 11.0 sec.
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
Also by your logic Blame must be the GREATEST as he beat Zenyatta, How is it you can excuse Mike Smith's bad ride but when other champions lose they were not good enough? Zenyatta beat Twice Over 3L, PLEASE like he's a Champion. I love Zarkava but it's hard to value her form, Beating Youmzain isn't exactly great, In the Vermeilles she beat Dar Re Mi, Yeah good form but nothing special, In the Diane she beat Gagnoa & Goldikova, Gagnoa did nothing afterwards and Goldi didn't stay,
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Shouldn't really be talking about other horses in a Frankel thread but hey-ho, No i'm not a ratings fanatic, I try and evaluate by myself, But the nonsense to suggest that Zenyatta or Zarkava last to first was remotely close to what Dancing Brave did in the Arc' is ludicrous, Zarkava 2009 arc final furlong 11.6 seconds, Zenyatta last 200yds 11.1 (a furlong as you know is 220yd, so add another second on 12.1) Dancing Brave (electronically timed 10.8)
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 First and foremost i apologise for the name calling it was below the belt.And you have as much right to post comments as anyone else so keep posting you have alot of knowledge on european racing.I won't post negative comments towards you again. And i hope Frankel goes up in distance and proves himself as a all time great.He sure has the raw talent to be one of the greatest with what he's done so far. Have a good weekend!
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@watchinginawe Sorry bud, i will restrain myself in future. The Amanda154 acts like she's the authority on european racing in a arrogant manner. Yeah i went to far but i will stick up for SYT if need be.I know Frankels a freak but surely this season would be the time to step up in distance to claim the greatest tag. And SYT is a NZ bred horse who is a champion and has never ducked any horse at any distance.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@SoulSurvivor79 fair play to you mate, thanks for replying. It's really interesting to hear everyone's opinions because they are so varied and we all think we are right, of course! I guess the great thing is that this horse really has got everyone talking and that's fantastic for racing. I really don't think the Frankel team are trying to duck anyone, it seems to me they have a 2 phase plan for him ie it'll just be the mile this year and they'll go further next year. Some great races coming up!
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 No probs Amanda, take it easy
watchinginawe 7 months ago
What intellectual post have you made? You post absolute garbage and you said i'm the wannabe.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 You have nothing on me!! Your nothing but a sad pommie slag. You went and sat in the tab yesterday how exciting. Don't you have a job?
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@SoulSurvivor79 be nice buddy, no need for all those nasty words. Hey, what's a Kiwi getting all worked up about racing for anyway? You guys are all rugby mad, aren't ya? Hope your guys win this one, it'll be good for rugby just like Frankel is good for racing.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
Like someone else has stated Frankels a one trick pony! Connections won't race beyond 8f till next year.What a joke.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 yep, when you put it like that it really is incredible what he has done to some very strong opposition. You know your racing really well, glad you're enjoying Frankel so much. When he exploded at about 1 1/2f to go on Wed it was such an exciting moment to realise that you're watching something so exceptional. I suddenly realised I was shouting out like a madman! I find myself just counting down the days to his next run!
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 I'm from NZ. So what your saying is you can praise Frankel to a point that you would probably suck his dick yet i can't praise the champ? I've seen your past posts and your a arrogant cunt. I'm boring haha!. Bring on Frankel lets see who the best horse is in the international. Thats right the connections dropped balls and chose the QE2! Don't reply you disgrace me!
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Ah well, the supporters of other horses are going to get to experience the "Hughes/Hannon headscratching and I don't understand what happened there" experience!
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Isn't it weird Amanda how some people don't get it? Sometimes you need to read between the lines. What blew me away about the 2000G was that they decided to run in that fashion. Sir Henry was telling the world " I have got an absolute monster here and I'm going to show you all what he can do." To plan to win like that you must know you're not only the best, but you're the best by a huge margin, in a championship race. His demolition of CC yesterday was even more breathtaking.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Your talking out your arse. SYT wouldn't need help to defeat Frankel in the Juddmonte International. Thats what the Sir Michael Stoute stable tried to do for Workforce in the Eclipse but it didn't work haha! By the way are you a guy or a women? Your names fucked up.
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
Just as i thought the connections of Frankel sticking to 8f races. He needs to move up to 10f or 12f races like the international,champion or arc to be classed better than horses like Dancing Brave at 3yrs old. Don't get me wrong he's a beast at a mile but it' all speculation at the moment the horse might not even stay just like el gran senor or dubai millenium at 12f. SYT will win the international he's a beast on anti clockwise tracks! Go SYT!
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
Frankel's next race ( and final race of this season ) will be the all aged mile Group QEII at Ascot - where he will clash with Canford Cliffs again. So You Think couldn't blow smoke up Frankel's arse.
ThefightingCelt 7 months ago
TheAmanda154 Haha 12lengths YEAH RIGHT! Go So You Think!
SoulSurvivor79 7 months ago
@SoulSurvivor79 I'm not into internet bickering, just trying to give you a heads up. Frankel will destroy So You Think just as he did Canford Cliffs. Personally, I'm finding it difficult to understand how some people are refusing to believe the glaringly obvious about the magnitude of Frankel's greatness. There are a group of very good horses around the world along the lines of SYT, Workforce etc all relatively close in standard. Then there is Frankel. He is in a totally different league.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Thought Dancing Brave and El Gran Senor where outstanding but you think Zenyatta and Zarkava would come close? You are clueless if you rate Zen and Zark better than DB and EGS.
Zarkava (Official Rating 128, Timeform rating 133) Zenyatta (OR 128, T 131) Dancing Brave( OR 140, T 140) El Gran Senor (T 136)
Spursrule1969 7 months ago
OMG...!-D
astrenvi 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Grovel, grovel, grovel. You were right. I was wrong. Hope you won't demand that I walk from Goodwood to Newmarket in a pink and green "I Heart Frankel" shirt.
tigerboy1966 7 months ago
let me be one of the first to congratulate sir frankel sir h,cecil and sir t,queely on beating canford cliffs to day at goodwood.i have my reservations and i will keep them to myself.let all who are attached to frankel and the team enjoy the moment over and out.
thepoacher2010 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Yep, despite Henry's efforts to downplay things after the guineas I knew that we had seen something totally extraordinary on 2 levels - firstly the performance itself was incredible and unprecedented. But more importantly the fact that Henry was prepared to try and blow the field apart like that in a championship race told me that he knew Frankel was a total freak of a horse that he wanted to show off to the world! And how! Then and now the hairs are still up on my neck!
watchinginawe 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 We knew it, didn't we? How good was that?!!!!!!!
watchinginawe 7 months ago
FRANKEL YOU BEAUTY!!!! That was fantastic!!!!!! Everyone please cut the bickering and just enjoy this brilliant racehorse. What he has just done to Canford is mind-blowing. Listen to Sir Henry "this is the best horse I have ever seen." !!!! Trust me, this animal could easily get 10f and I still think he'd be devastating over 12f. If you disagree, would you want to be a bookie laying him?He just cruised that today, that was AWESOME.
watchinginawe 7 months ago
H-20! I can't wait no longer!
astrenvi 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 ok lol
thepoacher2010 7 months ago
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thepoacher2010 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thepoacher2010 He has now.
SvendBosanvovski 7 months ago
The're 4 in the SS! What a pity...
astrenvi 7 months ago
Horse Racing Chat,Facebook.Check it out.
MrSmid888 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Some information: previous winners aren't allowed to run in Maiden races; there is no such race as the Irish 200 guineas; there is no horse called Rio Del Plata. You are obviously a big racing enthusiast and good luck to you but you need to brush up on your facts if you want people to take your views seriously. Try the RP website. And for the umpteenth time, I do believe that Frankel MIGHT be a great horse, it's just that I think his achievements so far have been over-rated.
tigerboy1966 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154 Dear Amanda, as your idea of of "rock hard" form seems to involve thinking that the result of a maiden race 11 months ago is somehow relevant to the result of today's King George, I think the kindest thing might be to ignore your comments. As I said, we'll know about Frankel's real rating soon enough, and I will be perfectly happy to admit that I was wrong if he bolts up in the Sussex. Hope that Frankel's fans won't be making excuses or blaming the jockey if CC "does" him.
tigerboy1966 7 months ago
My opinion, This horse is goin to beat CC.. Frankel looks the real deal! His stride, his turn of foot, when hes asked hes gone! He shattered every horse put in front of him! Now i know he hasn't met a CC's which i am a big fan of but Frankel is goin to get better nd better! This is the first race where he was really settled even at da start and given a more positive ride i honestly think Canford cliffs cant beat him! Ive won alot of money off CC but i will be backing against him this time!
jt465465758 7 months ago
The Guineas was a freak result, as many of the fancied horses were not ridden out in the last 3 furlongs. If you think that the form was reliable, then you are asking us to believe that Dubawi Gold is around 60lbs superior to Roderic O'Connor. Frankel is an exceptional horse, but his rating is too high by 5 or 6 lbs. The Sussex is a very close call, but I slightly favour CC. We'll all know by this time next week.
tigerboy1966 7 months ago
@tigerboy1966 i am so glad that someonr els is on the same waveline as me thank you for putting this up i have tried for ages to explain it like you just have.
thepoacher2010 7 months ago
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thepoacher2010 7 months ago
@TheAmanda154
frankel won at ascot in sptie of queally, not because of him.
with regards to referring to his guineas win as a freak performance, i am by no means diminishing the performance. it was brilliance at its best but one unlikely to be seen again. it is along simliar lines to hawk wings lockinge and denmans gold cup wins.
as for queally in the st james palace- there was absolutely no need for him to kick on so early. he blundered and only frankels ability bailed ihm out.
azertyuiop32 7 months ago
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thepoacher2010 7 months ago
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thepoacher2010 7 months ago
Dewhurst, bumped lit up no cover, win, Greenham, 82% fit no cover, win, Guineas headwind front run, win, STJP launched 4f out ! , win. must be like running with 10lb more than the rest each time, if he can handle that don't make me laugh about handling G1 Goodwood, i love CC but Frankels not the sort of 3 yr old he played with last year
dubian99 7 months ago
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thepoacher2010 7 months ago