devil and hitler are angels compared to bible god. ; he orders women cut open to kill ther unborn, , he has women raped infront of families, has animals and suckilinhg BABIES smashed on rocks, ect ect devil never did such evil war crimes. biblle is from satan cos god never kill a baby ever, thers so much more filth in bible
god have son, sound like pagans method of thinking... still can't comprehend why god need to be in human form and come to earth to preach human to worship god.. god have millions of angels and God can directly speak directly to all human heart.. God is far more powerful than any of the christian claimed to be..
@shiromelur do you know what there problem is of christians. They have made god to a human because they can comprend him but THAT is the problem. God cant be comprended because he is to mighty and great to be comprended.
by 4th century there was hundreds of diff gospels around so council of nicea 325ad chose which of these gospels to put in this new bible not god told them which gospels to put in . now to get pagans to join after centuries of human worship pagan beliefs they incorporated sum of these beliefs like trinity into bible merely to appease the intended customers so they were less reluctant to join then thats how 1 god became 3gods xtians do the same now change bible t get mo customers
WE MUST EACH SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR CHOICES, SO WE CANNOT ALLOW OTHER PEOPLE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR US. WE MUST NOT FOLLOW OTHERS BLINDLY, IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS, SEEK THE TRUTH. JESUS WAS BORN A MAN TO REPAY OUR SIN DEBT TO SATAN AND FREE US TO MAKE OUR CHOICE. HOW MUCH MUST YOU LOVE SOMEONE TO DIE FOR THEM, HE COULD HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO, IT WAS HIS CHOICE. COME, LIVE WITH HIM ETERNALY AND KNOW ONLY JOY AND PEACE, LET HIM WIPE AWAY YOUR TEARS. IT'S YOUR CHOICE, GOD BLESS
Jesus said he gave us Eternal life (John 10:28) that He is in us(John 14-21), that His name is the name of God( John 8:58)
Islam is war against Jews and Christians sura 9:29-30 in which Islam has robbed dozens of Christian nations from Jesus including Turkey and Egypt.
No prophet was sent after the Messiah as only the Messiah is to return and he returns to rid the world of Satan which is Islam(Rev 20-10, Zechariah 12:9-10)
The Koran teaches that the earth is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. ."And the earth - We have spread out. (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable..." S. 15:19 Y. Ali
The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
If God can do everything then Jesus cant be God because in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Cant GOD do anything he wills. The trinity doctrine has confused the minds of millions of people.
Islam is war against Jews and Christians sura 9:29-30 so Muslims don't care for evidence that contradicts Muhammad and his invented religion of hate for Muslims are killed if they become Apostates, which is proof the Quran is contradictions and a religion of compulsion.
Jesus is God because he gave us Eternal life, he is the Light, the Truth and the Way, and He is IN ALL People on earth John 14-20
But he will prove it best when he wars against those who come against Israel
@BonjourNuit120 If Jesus is God, Mother Mary is the mother of Jesus, than therefore that means Mother Mary is the Mother of God... Wouldn't that consider a Pagan Religion?
@ARVNReEnactor There is one God in Christianity, the Father is the Creator who came into creation known as the Son which is God incarnate. As Mary gave birth to Jesus who was and is God incarnate that makes her, his Mother while he walked the earth 2000 years ago. As it is abnormal that God took on a human form, it is also abnormal to be called the Mother of God, yet Mary was the Mother of God because God did come as Jesus. But a pagan religion is Islam that bows down to an idol in the kaaba
@BonjourNuit120 "Jesus who was and is God" If Jesus was God, why can't he avoid cruxification? it's said in the New Testament that, "My father is greater that I" John 14:28 It also said that "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." John 5:30 So therefore Jesus can't be God, but a son of man, in this case, son of woman. The "Holy Bible" is a contradiction.
@ARVNReEnactor Mary was Not a Goddess, there is One God who created existence and this One True God came as Jesus as he said he would. I heard the term Mother of God, twice in my lifetime, once on Jerry Seinfeld and once by you. No one ever worshiped Mary as a Goddess. It is a false accusation in sura 5:116 by Muhammad who claimed Christian worship 2 gods and Mary as a god when this was never the trinity
Paganism is when people worship idols like Allah who was and remains an idol in the kaaba.
@ARVNReEnactor Muslims think they submit to God because they bow down towards an idol in the kaaba but true submission is to obey God's commands that we care for people and not just those of our faith when Islam is war against non Muslims and hypocrites. Islam breaks everyone of God's Ten Commandments. Jews or Christians do not face Jerusalem to pray. For God is everywhere and we pray directly to God where ever we are in the world.
@BonjourNuit120 "it is also abnormal to be called the Mother of God, yet Mary was the Mother of God because God did come as Jesus" You said Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God making her a Goddess, so if there is a Goddess and a God, that will mean it's a Paganism. Islam means Submission. Muslim means submission to God. My friend, they face in the direction of Kaaba, just like Jews facing Jerusalem when they pray. Look up Kaaba, and see how special the Kaaba is.
@ARVNReEnactor Muslims use to pray towards Jerusalem, but when Muhammad realized Jews were not going to fall for his falsehood, then Muhammad changed directions and concocted a big story that Abraham and Ishmael built it but an old man past his nineties was not going to walk hundreds of miles into a desert with a child just to build a house that contained the idols of 360 gods. The Kaaba is indeed special to you Muslims, but it is not special to God for it is proof Muslims bow down to an idol
@ARVNReEnactor Abraham and Moses were Hebrew and the Jewish Bible was in Hebrew which Muhammad could not know. Jews were not envious because they knew Only Jews could be prophets, it was Muhammad who was envious
Muhammad claimed that Jesus didn't die on the cross when Jesus willingly went to the cross to prove he is God for Christianity came into existence After Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead and not before. Only Islam is false as it violates all of God's Ten Commandments
@ARVNReEnactor Jesus is God for he said his humanbody is not as Great as when he returns to being Omnipresent as is the Father
Jesus is in all people at the same time (John 14-20) which is the ability of the Holy Spirit of God or omnipresence of God
For the Father is a term for Creator and the Son is a term for God incarnated into creation
You do not know the Jews in Jesus' days never spoke in the first person, they never said I am. Jesus was referring to Himself when he spoke of the Father
@BonjourNuit120 If Jesus is God, why does Jesus pray to the Father, this doesn't make any sense when he prays to himself, interesting. Father is the Creator, which means God, and the Son is a term for God incarnated into creation, that would mean Jesus is a Prophet, and really powerful prophet.
No prophet was sent after the Messiah as only Jesus is to return, the Quran came after the Bible,
the Quran claims to confirm the scriptures but Muslims realize the Quran contradicts the Bible as well as itself but the Bible remains the word of God simply because God honors his promises without needing your Muslim approval.
Islam is not from God but uses God to do evil such as to deceive and oppress its own followers
@BonjourNuit120 If no prophet was sent after the Messiah, then why did Jesus said in Gospel of John 15:26? The Quran does not contradict the Bible, the bible contradict itself. If the Bible is the word of God, why are there 40+ copies of it, without having the "Original" copy of it on Earth? Whereas there is a Qur'an which is in Arabic, still having the original today? You read too many commentary books after Islam, why do you read commentary when you do not read the main source?
@ARVNReEnactor Here you are saying the Bible is corrupt yet you are trying to use a passage from the Bible to endorse Muhammad. You have no proof that the Bible is corrupt yet we have proof that a Bible dated 2000 years ago is the same then as now which proves only the Quran is corrupt for Muhammad had no Quran in his hand when he died, the Quran came into existence by his successors who burnt all the evidence.
I don't need to know Arabic to know Muhammad was never a prophet of the God of Israel
@BonjourNuit120 corrupted as in many copies, no original, and if you say its dated back 2000 years ago, you have no brain what-so-ever, THINK MAN! it's dated back approximately 4000 years ago, and if you're smart enough, it's DATED BACK WHEN THE EARTH IS MADE!!!! you spreading the Word of God and said it's dated back 2000 years ago, I said it dated back when Earth was MADE!
@ARVNReEnactor Fact: There is no original Qur'an. Fact: Followers of Muhammad disagreed about the verbal recitations. Fact: It can in NO WAY be determined that you have the true to original texts.
@ARVNReEnactor The Bible remains the Word of God because God honors his promises to this day.
My source of knowledge about Islam is from both the Bible and the Quran itself. Islam is not from God but contradicts God to the extremity that God will destroy Islam and that information IS IN the Bible.
@BonjourNuit120 The Bible still remain the Word of God, True, but some. There are so many copies to the point, as a Christian(which is ME!), ponder where the hell is the original COPY! that's what's frustrate me so much. Look at Ezekiel 8:16 from many different copies, one said 25, the other said 5 to 25, the other said 5, so which one is TRUE!? man bonjournuit120, the more i questions the Bible, the more it leads me to Islam.
@ARVNReEnactor You ask, "If Jesus is God, Mother Mary is the mother of Jesus, than therefore that means Mother Mary is the Mother of God... Wouldn't that consider a Pagan Religion?"
No. The question shows the common Muslim misunderstanding of the nature of the Messiah. The Messiah is both fully human and fully God. Mary gave birth to the human Jesus who was brought into existence by God. God was never born. God never died. God never sleeps, eats, or was tempted. The human Jesus was.
@jorsak "The Messiah is both fully human and fully God. Mary gave birth to the human Jesus who was brought into existence by God. God was never born. God never died. God never sleeps, eats, or was tempted. The human Jesus was." That's like saying a starburst, "it's solid yet juicy like a liquid ."(contradiction) To you Jesus is God. Jesus sleeps, eats, and tempted, if Jesus is God, why does he do these stuff when you stated God never died, sleep,eats and etc. To me, no understanding.
@BonjourNuit120 For me, there are TWO things that the Qur'an claim that the Muslims MUST be able to demonstrate since the Qur'an makes these claims. They must be able to demonstrate that Jesus was never crucified and that Muhammad is found in the Law (Torah) and in the Gospels. They fail on both points and consequently Islam fails.
@jorsak You are right, the Muslims never can prove sura 4:157 for Christianity came into existence After Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead, moreover they can never prove sura 7:157 for Muhammad was never mentioned in either the Torah or the NT. For God is not forgetful, God chose Isaac over Ishmael to carry as Everlasting the covenant, thus prophetic line Genesis 17-19
Islam is a military Totalitarian ideology under the guise of religion in which Allah is an idol in the kaaba sura 21:58
@lunaticbomber11 Muslims are too afraid to question the Quran, with its contradictions,its hatred, its bribes, its extreme violence, which in turn makes Muslims blind slaves of Satan.
Satan is not only an oppressor, a liar and a murderer, Satan poses as a great light( religion),and the Biblical prophecies reveal Islam is from Satan
God came as Jesus to remind us that He is in us (John 14-20) Those who request His Holy Spirit or Comforter become aware of His loving Presence(Isaiah 35:2-8)
@lunaticbomber11 Well stated, Christianity never was meant to be a religion, but a way of life called the way of Holiness as in Isaiah 35:8
The Way of Holiness is knowing, experiencing the Loving Presence of God or Holy Spirit who came as Jesus. There is no greater experience in being alive than to know God knows you and loves you. It is God's Will that one day all the world will experience God, and that day forward there shall be no more tears, sickness or death
The truth is: we know very little about God. I have just published a fictional novel that is sure to surprise most folks and send this message like no other. Visit Amazon and click on Gaud's Trial by Hannah Faye.
WHO CARES IF JESUS GOD OR NOT.THE QUESTIONS OF DOGMA DON'T INTEREST ME.I WANT TO SEE GOOD ACTIONS.I PREFER SOMEONE WHO TELLS YOU TO WORSHIP A PEACE OF ROCK BUT ALSO TELLS YOU TO LOVE, TO SHOW RESPECT FOR LIFE,TO ABSTAIN FROM KILLING THAN A RELIGION LIKE ISLAM THAT PREACHES MONOTHEISM BUT KILLS IN THE NAME OF GOD. KILLING IS THE MOST HORRIBLE OF ALL SINS.ISLAM KILLS AND THE PROPHET OF ISLAM WAS A KILLER. IT IS NOT ME WHO SAYS IT, IT IS THE MUSLIM CANONICAL TEXTS THAT TELL US ABOUT HIS CRIMES
I'M NOT CHRISTIAN BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY MUSLIMS ARE LEAVING ISLAM. AT LEAST JESUS PREACHED LOVE, PEACE, RESPECT FOR LIFE. HE SAVED A WOMAN FROM BEING STONED (ISLAM STONES).HE ABOLISHED THE LAW OF AN EYE FOR AN EYE (ISLAM REINSTATED IT). JESUS SAID TO LOVE ONE'S ENEMIES AND WAS NEVER INVOLVED IN WARS. ISLAM CAME 6 CENTURIES AFTER BUT IT IS A MESSAGE OF WAR, HATRED. THE QURAN TELLS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT 2:193, 8:39, 9:29. THE HADITHS TELL US HOW MUHAMMED KILLED, LOOTED, RAPED, DIVIDED THE BOOTY
For those of you who are not aware. Deedat clearly recieved the judgement of God after his speech against the bible in Australia. About 4 weeks after that speech, and past warnings, he was struck with a stroke and rendered speechless until his death some 10yrs later. He may have still been alive, had he humbled himself before God.
@ARVNReEnactor yes buddy very observant of you. He was old. He was also openly rebuked in a letter from christian ministers in Durban, that if he continued his defamatory and unscholarly attacks on the bible, and did not humble himself, that Gods judgement would befall him. Deedat had ample opportunity. it wasnt till about 18 months later when he arrogantly disrespected Jesus in Australia that he became sick.
@TLIGFE He has been doing this since majority of his life, as early as 1942, so it took 63 years for God to strike Deedat? no sense what-so-ever. and if you say he "attacks on the bible" you're quick to judge, he points out the flaws and misconception of people having on the bible. In this case, he's saying Jesus is not God.
@ARVNReEnactor no it didnt take 63 yrs for God to strike him. If you take note it happened AFTER he was rebuked, just like when Paul rebuked the man in the bible, he was blinded. God's will is for all to be saved through his Son Jesus. But please be aware that Christains have the authority through Jesus Christ to be embassadors.
@missgaga555 "There is not a single statement in the bible where Jesus clearly declares that he is God!"
Actually there are many. They are perfectly clear TO HIS AUDIENCE to whom he was speaking 2,000 years ago. And a CLEAR example of this?
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, CLAIM TO BE GOD.”
His audience understood perfectly well that this was a CLEAR CLAIM OF DEITY.
You then quoted, "Do not call me good, only God should be called so.! Mark 10:18"
Please show me in this passage or for that matter ANY passage where Jesus asserts he is NOT Good. In fact, the opposite is true. Jesus refers to himself as THE (not a) GOOD Shepherd. (John 10:14) (cont.)
Then you talk about Jesus praying, and saying "My God"and other such examples. What you fail to realize is that Christianity has taught from the foundation that Jesus is fully man and fully God. Thus, as a fully human Jew, he wept, prayed, worshiped, etc. as all righteous Jews did.
Then you point to John 5:19. Now this verse I'd LOVE to walk you through line by line because the context actually PROVES my point that he is God. For now let's (Cont.)
look at John 5:19. You failed to quote the WHOLE verse.
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
He ONLY DOES what he SEES HIS FATHER DOING. The verse NEVER stated that he can do nothing by himself. Whatever he SEES the Father doing, THE SON ALSO DOES!
Now... what prophet EVER in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD would make such a claim. (cont.)
Jesus claimed that he could do WHATEVER he saw the Father doing. THAT is a FULL CLAIM to deity. Thank you for referencing the verse that clearly shows his deity.
You then reference John 5:7 as being thrown out (actually it's 1 John 5:7) There are a total of 18-22 verses that scholars believe are scribal notations and not actual passages of scripture. There are 7,956 verses in the NT alone. So, 22 verses would represent .002% of scripture. These 22 verses effect no single doctrine (cont.)
But What about the SAME THING in Islam with the Qur'an. Muslims like to talk about how "pure" the Qur'an is and yet the logic simply holds no water.
Utham burned copies of the early manuscripts. Every Muslim acknowledges this. So, it's a simple question. Did Uthman burn variants that differed or did he burn the true and correct word of Allah. There's no inbetween. Christians are simply more intellectually honest about the extreme minimal amount of variants.
Jesus denies the crucifixion according to Luke 24: 36-43, he proves that he has a physical body, when he supposed to be “resurrected” and be in a spiritual body, I’d like you to prove me wrong and explain how this can happen?
@missgaga555 "Jesus denies the crucifixion" You will NEVER find a place that Jesus says he did not die, was not crucified, or any such notion.
Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead. He challenged the disciples to look at and touch his hands and his feet which had the nail holes present (proving HE personally was CRUCIFIED - John 20:25-27).
Had you read further you would have found that Jesus explains that the Messiah MUST DIE and rise from the dead. (Luke 24:46)
“Jesus asserted MANY MANY times that he came to die for the sins of mankind”
Two points:
Is it really for all mankind? I believe there was MANY GENERATIONS before his crucifixion, since Adam PBUH! If believing in his crucifixion is what is going to get us heaven, what happened to these poor generations who didn’t even hear about this event, did they go to hell?
Secondly, why he is crying and wailing to God about leaving him on the cross? I thought it was his choice! Wasn’t it?
@missgaga555 Salvation has always been the same. The law required sacrifice for the atonement of sin.
"For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life." Leviticus 17:11
"In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22
Jesus is the PERFECT sacrifice and thus we need no more.
If anything the burning event PROVES that the Quran was properly reserved :)
“Did Uthman burn variants that differed or did he burn the true and correct word of Allah.” your question says that U believe there was a true word of God after Jesus PBUH!!
The answer:
ALL THE QURAN was written by Zaid Bin Thabit at the time of prophet and it was verified personally by the prophet, the scriptures was ONLY COLLECTED IN ONE BOOK NOT WRITTEN at the time of Abu Bakr & Omar God bless them.
@missgaga555 "ALL THE QURAN was written by Zaid Bin Thabit "
False. There were many people who had pieces of the Qur'an. Google Hafsah codex. Uthman BURNED SOMETHING. Either he burned ACCURATE texts from Allah or he burned variants. There is NO IN BETWEEN!
This one book was reserved with Hafasah the prophet wife, What Uthman wanted to do is to send copies to far countries, so he made copies of this ONLY ONE BOOK, then he burned ANY, AND ALL other Quran notes whether it was right or wrong Quran, because he found Muslims qouting their own comments to be the right Quran, so he commanded all the notes to be burned!
Some Muslims even refused to hand their notes but at the end it was burned all and the one book is what ONLY remained!
Lolz John 10:30 why don’t you quote the earlier verses? He clearly speaks that they are one in purpose as he says earlier no one will snatch them out of his hand or the father hand >> so he ended by saying that they are one! VERY CLEAR! Furthermore, if you think that they are one unit loolz then why Jesus says My Father is greater than I?? Aren’t they are one? Aren’t they are equle?
And come one what are yo trying to bring to God? The Jews are stoning God?! You believe that?!
@missgaga555 "He clearly speaks that they are one in purpose"
False. As I have ALREADY PROVEN, his AUDIENCE (The people he was speaking to) FULLY UNDERSTOOD that this was a claim of deity as they SAID EXACTLY THAT to his face. YOU, trying to CHANGE that context some 2,000 years later cannot change that fact.
His AUDIENCE fully understood that it was a claim of deity and do you see Jesus deny it? No.
LOLZ I didn’t quote Mark to say Jesus is not Good!!! He is Good for sure!
Mark phrase is something that we all say, it means that no one is comparable to God in Goodness, but it doesn’t mean that we are not good people!
>> What I’m saying is how come he says only God can be called Good when he is God?? How come he refuses to be called Good when he is God? EXPLAIN! he clearly made a difference between himself and God!
IT CAN’T BE MORE OBVIOUSE that he is saying I’M NOT GOD!
@missgaga555 "LOLZ I didn’t quote Mark to say Jesus is not Good!!! He is Good for sure!"
Only God is good. Thank you for proving my point. Jesus never denied being good. He simply ASKED the man who only acknowledged him as "Rabbi" (Teacher) why he called him good. The man had no understanding of who Jesus was and thus should never refer to a mere Rabbi as "Good" since only God is good.
(Jesus is fully man and fully God) I swear if you say this to a 4 years old kid he will laugh at you and I’m not trying to be funny! You just said the MOST TWO OPPOSITE things in the world fully man and fully God! This can’t be logic what makes God, a God if he is fully man? Fully man, that means he, WITH ALL RESPEC, would go to the toilet? You’re the one who said FULLY, then he does what normal men do, he eats and he needs an outlet!
@missgaga555 The two natures never mix. He is simultaneously and SEPARATELY God and Man. God never goes to the toilet. The HUMAN Jesus goes to the toilet.
You quoted the whole verse that gives the same meaning Lools! The son in his own can do nothing without the father
FULL CLAIM to deity>> Where did you see that, I’m serious, being usless wihtout the father is a full claim to diety? Being usless without God simply mean being a human being, NOT God, so the question remains, how God in his own can do nothing?? Why he just can do what that father do?
@missgaga555 Please tell me what being apart from God can do ANYTHING they see the Father do? There are NONE. The Angels cannot speak the universe into existence. The mightiest of prophets cannot. Yet scripture states that through Jesus ALL THINGS came into being.
Jesus proceeds to tell you in the following passages that JUST AS THE FATHER GIVES LIFE so too he gives life to WHOMEVER he pleases. Jesus tells you that the Father will not judge but that HE will judge all mankind. GOD ONLY!
1 John 5:7 what an amazing survey :) So I’m asking are God words can be a fabrication, can be wrong? Why your scholars keeps throwing verses out of the bible, I think the bible should be perfect since it is God words? But this is normal as your bible was written by different 40 MEN and you don’t even have full biography of all thes men, So the bible is written by anonymous men! On the other hand there is not a single letter was thrown out of the Quran after 1400 years:)
@missgaga555 "So I’m asking are God words can be a fabrication, can be wrong?"
No, and they never have been. "Why your scholars keeps throwing verses out of the bible, I think the bible should be perfect since it is God words?"
Sorry. There's no "Keep throwing out." There are 18-22 verses that are considered "Questionable." .002% and unlike Uthman who BURNED these variants, Christianity is simply more honest about the verses.
So, let me ask you, is it THE MAN who makes scripture holy?
FYI Prophet Muhammed is mentioned in your own bible IN MANY scriptures :) the bible actually testify that a true prophet is the one who confesses that Jesus is the Christ, and YES prophet Muhammed confessed that Jesus PBUH is the Christ! SO ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE TEST OF TRUE PRPHETS; PROPHET MUHAMMED IS A TRUE ONE :)
@missgaga555 "And you didn’t explain about when Jesus says literally, my father, and my God! God has a God?"
Actually, yes I did explain. Perhaps if you hadn't posted 10 separate comments you would have been more able to follow the answers. Jesus was FULLY man. Thus, as a FULLY HUMAN Jew he prayed, ate, worshiped, cried, went to the restroom, etc.
And no... Muhammed is mentioned no where in scripture. Only the fabrication of Deedat and the like. No real scholar makes that claim.
PS. I remember you saying something about Jesus crying out on the cross as proof that he did not want to die or something like that and was unsure if I answered you on that point (part of the difficulty of many many posts.)
Jesus was QUOTING scripture rather than "Crying out." HE was QUOTING Psalm 22:1 which is a messianic Psalm which FORETELLS the CRUCIFIXION. Read Psalm 22 carefully and pay close attention to verse 16. There are no less than 16 prophecies fulfilled in that Psalm by Jesus.
PPS. On the subject of Muhammad in the Bible: Shabir Ali is probably considered one of, if not THE top Muslim debater on the circuit right now. Watch James White thoroughly debunk his arguments in debate on that subject here:
/watch?v=He87MiAWq90&feature=player_embeddedml
and here:
/watch?v=qR37F0cSrjo&feature=player_embedded
I hope I have thoroughly and completely answered all of your questions.
Like you didn’t post hundred comments? At least mine are organized :D
YES! Your memory is Good! I did mention that he was wailing, your Bible says that Mark 15:34, now two questions, since he came to DIE BY CHOICE why he is screaming on the cross? Secondly, since he is God, How he is crying by calling MY GOD MY GOD?
But your memory might be wrong here as YOU DIDN’T explain about John 17:3, John 20:17, anyways pls copy your explanation from the invisible comment and post again
I deleted my lengthy reply to this 2 part question and am going to focus only on answer the first question in depth as I have answered it twice before and it was missed in the volume of responses. I initially posted ONE post in RESPONSE to your assertion. You followed that up with 7 posts. Then 10 posts and now 13 posts.
My RESPONSES to YOUR questions are simply that. RESPONSES. Thus the volume and order are dictated by you. Thus any personal (cont.)
attack about the quality or order are actually self-directed criticism as I am merely RESPONDING to your questions.
Thus, to help resolve this issue, I am going to focus ONLY on the FIRST question and once thoroughly answered, we can return to your previous questions. I hope you find that agreeable and possibly less confusing.
In your first post, you asked: two questions, since he came to DIE BY CHOICE why he is screaming on the cross? Secondly, since he is God, (cont.)
As I stated previously, Jesus is quoting the messianic Psalm 22. This Psalm is a detailed look at the event of the crucifixion. Jesus QUOTES from it to indicate that it is fulfilled in the very sight of those present rather than your notion that he was "Crying out" in any form of regret for his situation.
Psalm 22:1 begins, " 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Recognize anything familiar there?
numerous characteristics of the Messiah and the event of the crucifixion. There are no less than 16 prophecies in that Psalm that Jesus fulfilled by the crucifixion and the events the immediately lead up to it. I want you to pay close attention to verse 16, however, which states, " Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet."
How COINCIDENTAL that Jesus quotes FROM THE CROSS a Psalm indicating pierced hands and feet. Yes? Obviously it is on (cont.)
Now. Have I sufficiently answered why Jesus quoted "My God, My God..." when he was on the cross. If you are satisfied with the response, we can move forward to the rest of your questions.
Loolz I didn’t attack you, and why do you keep referring to my length comments! You brought many issues up especially about Uthman burning the Quran, so I had to give a clear long reply because I don’t like to go around questions like how most Christians do!
I really don’t see the point of you not answering all the questions, do you think that any point will ever be totally settled over some comments?! So basically the other questions won’t ever get answered!
@missgaga555 "Loolz I didn’t attack you," No, you just said my comments were unorganized.
" and why do you keep referring to my length comments! "
Because I first posted 1 response to a statement you made. You responded with SEVEN responses, then 10, and then 13. I introduced ONE new topic outside of my RESPONSES. Never the less...
The point of not answering ALL the questions is that it is ludicrous to address THIRTEEN posts , each of which requires typically 1 to 3 posts.
as for psalm, Christians think that it is a prophecy, yet the Jews say it is not talking about Jesus but about King David and his pains! I really don’t know who to believe Loolz oh well..
You didn’t really answer my question, I didn’t ask from where Jesus got these words, my question was WHY he is saying such words on the cross? when he suppose to be coming to the world HAPPY to die on the cross, so why he is crying instead? it is not about the source it is about the content!
@missgaga555 "as for psalm, Christians think that it is a prophecy, yet the Jews say it is not talking about Jesus but about King David and his pains!"
It really matters little that the Jewish community prescribes this to Messiah since it was prophesied that they would REJECT Messiah as you a Muslim well know they reject Jesus as even a Prophet. (Though it is entirely false that all Jews say this is only about King David as there are MANY who recognize it as a messianic Psalm).
You then say, "You didn’t really answer my question, I didn’t ask from where Jesus got these words, my question was WHY he is saying such words on the cross?"
To which I am honestly, AMAZED. PLEASE, I beg you READ the response. He said these words BECAUSE HE WAS QUOTING SCRIPTURE. The SCRIPTURE HE QUOTED is ALL ABOUT the crucifixion. It literally DESCRIBES THE SCENE of the CRUCIFIXION.
Why is that so incomprehensible for you? He quoted it to state to all that it was fulfilled (cont.)
by him AT THAT MOMENT. As I have already stated REPEATEDLY, there were no less than SIXTEEN fulfilled prophecies in that ONE Psalm by Jesus via the CRUCIFIXION.
You can say along with the Jew that the Psalm is merely about King David but that does not explain why Jesus QUOTED FROM IT while ON THE CROSS and that once you READ the Psalm you see that it is a clear depiction of the events of the crucifixion.
Anyone who is intellectually honest recognizes that fact.
You then go on to ask, " when he suppose to be coming to the world HAPPY to die on the cross,"
WHAT?!?!? Since when does he have to be HAPPY about dying for the sins of the world via the gruesome and humiliating process he went through? WHERE DOES IT EVER say that he had to be HAPPY? The only thing Jesus HAD to be was WILLING and THAT is EXACTLY what you see.
“My Father, if it is POSSIBLE, may this cup be taken from me. Yet NOT AS I WILL, but AS YOU WILL.”
And thus, by that alone are you saved. Just as Jesus said with his own mouth, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
This is all completely consistent with 100% of what Jesus REPEATEDLY told you that Islam denies making Jesus a liar.
YOU put into scriptures YOUR ideas (He must be happy) and thus YOU create conflict where none really exists.
The simple fact is that Jesus PLAINLY told (Cont.)
Here is my question and I’ll post it VERY CLEARLY, and I want a CLEAR answer, AGAIN CLEAR ANSWER!
If Jesus did it WILLENGLY, why he prayed to God THREE TIMES to avoid him this? Matthew 26:39
I believe when you come to the world for a purpose, and more important you WANT to achieve this purpose, you don’t go and ask God the opposite of your purpose, that just DOESN’T MAKE SENSE AT ALL! EXPLAIN!
As already stated, Jesus doesn't NEED to be HAPPY or EXCITED about the idea of being beaten beyond recognition, spit on and mocked, having the skin ripped from his back, and ultimately being nailed to a cross in a form of punishment (Crucifixion) that was SO extreme in it's pain that the romans had to CREATE a word to describe its pain (Excruciating - or ex meaning out of and cruciating meaning the cross. The pain is SO BAD it is the pain that comes OUT OF The cross.)
Jesus, who was also FULLY HUMAN remember and that is important to remember, saw what he was going to have to experience and most certainly as would be expected was UNEXCITED about the events coming. WHO in their RIGHT MIND wouldn't be? He was also about to have the sins of all mankind placed on him and experience sin for the first time in all of history. He who knew no sin took on all our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). Can you imagine the weight of all the sin of all mankind? Just that (cont.)
alone would be enough to make you sweat blood. If you had been taught something differently than the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross and were it not on you to try and dismiss it because the Qur'an dismisses it and had you simply studied the events for yourself with an honest and open reading of the information, this would be easy to see, logical and reasonable.
What you see is that the evidence for the crucifixion is overwhelming and it was confirmed by Jesus' own mouth (cont.)
repeatedly. He didn't say that he came to die once or twice. He said it repeatedly. He even told you in advance NUMEROUS times that he would die by crucifixion and that he must suffer at the hands of the Jewish leaders. He even specifically states that the Messiah must die.
"This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day," (Luke 24:46)
He will RISE FROM THE DEAD. That is a direct quote from Jesus' mouth.
there is no real argument against it. Of course the Muslim's response once the argument is solidly demonstrated will be that the texts are corrupted. That is a whole different conversation but the texts as shown prove it and you have to admit that.
you want to pass an exam, you ask God to not pass the exam?
Jesus repeatedly and in many NUMEROUS times said that he would die by crucifixion>>GREAT! so this is why he came to this earth, this is his purpose, then HOW ON EARTH HE ASKS GOD TO AVOID HIM HIS PURPOSE?!> So he came for this goal, yet he asks God to not give him his goal?? Any sense here?
Give a logic explanation, and a CLEAR one Pleeeese!
@missgaga555 "have you read the one comment I posted? I didn't say happy, I said willingly!"
If you made the argument that Jesus was unwilling, then the argument was even weaker than arguing he wasn't happy about it because Jesus flat out says that He was WILLING to abide by the will of the Father which plainly stated was for Jesus to die by crucifixion so your argument is completely undone.
You then state, "you want to pass an exam, you ask God to not pass the exam?"
My Father tells me to mow the yard. I say I will. I wake in the morning to look at the news report and the news report says it's going to be 110 degrees outside and the humidity level is 90%. I KNOW that mowing today is going to a huge pain. I go to dad and say, "Dad, I would really prefer if you would hire someone to mow the yard but if you want me to do it, I will."
THAT would be a fair example.
At this point, you're really hanging on to a thin thread here. You've been (Cont.)
thoroughly refuted on each of your points. I've demonstrated by exact quote that Jesus stated from his own mouth that he came to die, would die by crucifixion and that he specifically would DIE and rise from the DEAD. You cannot refute those statements.
You're clinging to this notion that he was unwilling and yet his EXACT statement proves you wrong. He would abide by the Father's will.
I didn’t mention the corruption at all!! I think I’ve been discussing with you your own scriptures not the Qurans!
Yes I remember that he was fully human, and I also remember that you didn’t reply my earlier question, how Jesus was simultaneously a man, and a God but at the same time they were separated? (simultaneously, and separated)?
Didn’t you say that you’re going to leave it until the end to explain,why are you bringing it up ,explain it first before you use it as a proof!
@missgaga555 "I didn’t mention the corruption at all!! I think I’ve been discussing with you your own scriptures not the Qurans!"
I know you didn't. I stated that it is TYPICAL of a Muslim at this point now that the argument has been pretty thoroughly established to make the complaint that the texts are corrupted.
"Yes I remember that he was fully human... explain it first before you use it as a proof!
Muslims accept that Jesus is fully human. I do not need you to accept his deity (Cont.)
in order to prove that he willingly went to the cross, died, and resurrected after 3 days all of which proves that Islam is false and makes Jesus out to be a liar.
The exact same thing with Jesus: He came for the purpose of passing this horrible crucifixion in order to save the humanity, would he ask God to help him passing this crucifixion to save humans, or ask God to avoid him the whole thing which will lead to not achieving his purpose and will put all mankind in hell?
The logic thing to do is to ask God help him, because what is the point of him coming down to earth, to die for the sins,and then he asks God to avoid him the whole thing?
“would really prefer if you would hire someone to mow the yard but if you want me to do it, I will."
Wow you gave such a BEATIFUL example, so you’re CLEARLY saying that it wasn’t even a hesitation but Jesus desire was to not get crucified at all, because he prefers to not get crucified but he did it JUST for the sake of the father?! >> so it is what the father wanted not Jesus?!
So Jesus didn’t really want to die for my sins?!!!! This is what you're saying :)
@missgaga555 You state and ask, "so it is what the father wanted not Jesus?! So Jesus didn’t really want to die for my sins?!!!! This is what you're saying :)"
And my response is, does it really matter? YOU are trying, through created examples, to find some flaw that you can cling to since scripture has plainly and clearly refuted your (Islamic) position.
Whether Jesus, the human, wanted to experience the pain of the cross or not does not matter. He did and went willingly to it. Proven.
Did Jesus want for mankind to go to hell? or he didn't care if we do?>> cuz when Jesus asked God to avoid him the crucifixion he WAS AWARE that if God gave him what he wants that will lead all human beings to GO TO HELL, and still he asked him! so basically Jesus didn't really care if we get saved or not, he just wanted to not get crucified, and he did it for the Father NOT for us! Why should we worship him then? It’s pretty clear that he didn’t care that much, don’t you see it?!!!
@missgaga555 "cuz when Jesus asked God to avoid him the crucifixion he WAS AWARE that if God gave him what he wants that will lead all human beings to GO TO HELL"
No. What he ASKED his Father was to let the cup pass HIM by. Jesus asked for God the Father to find another way to save mankind IF POSSIBLE but would ACCEPT whatever the Father gave him.
Messiah crucified willingly! And in so doing, Islam proven false.
“And is Jesus WILLING to do to his death in accord with his FATHER's Will”
Again and again you’re saying father will, so clearly you’re emphasizing that Jesus never wanted to save us, he just did it for the father :)
Believe me typical Muslims don’t do that, I can easily bring you a verse from the Quran that says clearly Jesus didn’t get crucified! What’s your reply is going to be for that? Your book is false!
It’s not really Muslims who face arguments by the corruption :)
@missgaga555 " What’s your reply is going to be for that? Your book is false!"
Let's consider the logic of it. The prophet's foretold the event. The Law requires sacrifice for sin. The Messiah plainly told you that he came to die repeatedly, how he would die and even WHY he must die.
And YOUR book which follows some 600 years LATER says it didn't happen. What would the logical response be? The book that followed 600 years later is false. Yes. It denies the crucifixion and yet (cont.)
you've failed to offer ANY real proof that it didn't occur. You've been reduced to creating scenarios which at the end of the day really don't matter because you have failed to provide any real refutation to the numerous and plainly clear statements that show that the crucifixion happened.
"It’s not really Muslims who face arguments by the corruption :)"
I disagree. But that's another point. Unless you can bring anything of real substance to the table, this point is concluded and proven.
The test was JUST an example, I believe when I matched the example with Jesus I said he has to pass the “HORRIBLE CRUSIFXION”
And it totally matches Jesus! Jesus came for a purpose which is to save mankind, then it’s SO NOT logic him asking God to not give him that purpose!
You haven’t answered ALL MY QUESTIONS about being Fully human, and fully God! You said you’re going to leave it until the end, so don’t come and mention that every time when you didn’t even explain it!
Yes. Exactly. And no amount of examples will help you prove that the crucifixion never occurred. As I've stated, the point is proven. You've got nothing new to offer on this. Any number of examples will never change the fact that Jesus (Willingly, unwillingly, happily, unhappily, NO MATTER!) was crucified.
THAT was the FIRST argument that you presented. ISLAM states Jesus was never crucified and the simple fact of the matter is that he was.
“I'd really prefer another route to saving mankind”
This is an excuse you made up, there is no such thing, All I see he is praying to God REPEATEDLY to SAVE him crucifixion, and that is it, Bring me a single scripture where he asks to SUBSTITUTE the crucifixion with another way?
“state he agreement with the plan”
YES he did agree but just for the Father will, not to save us :) otherwise he wouldn’t pray to avoid crucifixion when he knows if that happened we will all go to hell!!
@missgaga555 "This is an excuse you made up, there is no such thing, All I see he is praying to God REPEATEDLY to SAVE him crucifixion"
Actually, he prayed ONCE specifically, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me."
The "Cup" is the "task" presented to Jesus. He prays, "If it is POSSIBLE for THIS TASK to be taken from me let it be so. IF it is NOT possible to take this task from me, then YOUR WILL BE DONE."
Now, YOU would have to argue that Jesus wanted everyone(cont.)
to go to hell. However, you would find no such support anywhere in scripture with this notion. Jesus simply told God, IF IT IS POSSIBLE that this task be taken from me then let it be. If the event never occurred it would not mean that all people are condemned to hell. That is YOUR insertion again. If Jesus had not become the perfect sacrifice for sin that perfectly atones for sin, then we would still be sacrificing animals in accord with the law.
@missgaga555 "otherwise he wouldn’t pray to avoid crucifixion when he knows if that happened we will all go to hell!!"
False. Everyone prior to Jesus was bound by the law and sacrificed animals to atone for their sins. Thus, the righteous Jews sacrificed in the temple and were saved from God's wrath. Jesus' death on the cross became the PERFECT sacrifice and thus it is not needed to be repeated.
“both crucified, died, and physically resurrected.”
AGAIN YOU HAVEN’T answered my earlier question about this point, do you see now why I asked you to answer before we go further!
According to Luke 24: 36-43, he proves that he has a physical body, when he supposed to be “resurrected” and be in a (spiritual body)and that’s taken from his OWN TEACHINGS that the resurrected bodies are spiritual NOT physical,how that happened?
I stated, 'both crucified, died, and physically resurrected.”
You replied, "AGAIN YOU HAVEN’T answered my earlier question about this point, do you see now why I asked you to answer before we go further!"
And if you cannot see the logic behind keeping to ONE point and that one point STILL taking on average 7 posts to discuss each turn, then you are seriously lacking in good judgement.
At this point, the argument is solidly proven that he was crucified. You've offered (cont.)
nothing new and nothing that refutes the clear numerous volume of verses from Jesus' own mouth stating he came to die, specifically by crucifixion, and would rise from the dead. Any number of "examples" about tests or otherwise matters not at all because at the end of the day, Jesus clearly states that he would be crucified in agreement with prophecy, the law, and the Father's will.
There is NO contradiction in stating that Jesus wanted the cup to pass him by when the law requires (Cont.)
sacrifice. What do you think had been happening for the previous several thousand years? God gave the Jews the law which required sacrifices for sins and that's exactly what righteous Jews had done.
IF the cup had passed Jesus by, then the law would still be in place and sacrificing animals would be required for the atonement of sin. Once AGAIN, you are trying to create contradictions where there are none because of YOUR lack of knowledge in the scriptures. I do not blame you for (cont.)
for that lack of knowledge as these are not your texts to know and understand but it would be nice if you ASKED for clarity on a point when you failed to understand it rather than your immediate typical Muslim response of shouting about supposed contradictions where none exist.
The point is proven. Jesus was crucified. Acknowledge that and we can move on to the next points.
"Jesus was crucified. Acknowledge that and we can move on to the next points."
That's so funny! so you want me to believe Jesus was crucified in order for you to answer my questions?
it sounds that you left the main topic, and you're discussing my long comments!
How can I Acknowledge it when I posted you a question about it and YOU NEVER REPLUIED IT BACK! I swear I post it like 3 times! this is becoming a waste of time, Luke 24: 36-43 JUST NSWER IT!
@missgaga555 Let me QUOTE myself from over a WEEK AGO:
Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead. He challenged the disciples to look at and touch his hands and his feet which had the nail holes present (proving HE personally was CRUCIFIED - John 20:25-27).
Had you read further you would have found that Jesus explains that the Messiah MUST DIE and rise from the dead. (Luke 24:46)
Let's go ahead and READ EXACTLY what Jesus had to say.
“44 This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and RISE FROM THE DEAD on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
PHYSICALLY DIED and that according to the law and in the fulfillment of the prophets HE PHYSICALLY ROSE FROM THE DEAD; explained BY HIS OWN MOUTH.
Once again... this was answered over a week ago. Nothing new to refute what has already been proven. Accept the fact that the crucifixion is undeniable and we will move on to the remainder of your questions.
"Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead"
Thanks :) that’s what I’m saying!
Jesus teachings say that the resurrected bodies are spiritual NOT PHYSICAL Luke 20:36, so he can’t be resurrected PHYSICALLY :) He was simply proving that he is not resurrected according to his own teachings!
I’m not asking you for scriptures about the resurrection, I’m asking you about this specific verse that Contradicts!
So to make everything clear hoping that I’ll get a clear answer as well, the question is: How come Jesus proves that he is in a physical body when “supposedly” he was resurrected, when the resurrected bodies CAN’T BE PHYSICAL BUT SPRITUAL ACCORDING TO HIS OWN TEACHINGS?
@missgaga555 Please show me in this passage you referenced where it says #1. The resurrection is spiritual and #2. where it says that there is never a physical resurrection:
"36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."
Never do you see Jesus stating that the resurrection is spiritual alone. In fact it is well known to Christians that the resurrection will reunite our spirit with a new and glorified(cont.)
body. As it is recorded in 1 Corinthians 15, "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."
The word used here in the Greek is Soma which means physical. The BODY is raised imperishable. Thus, the resurrection is PHYSICAL as well as spiritual.
“36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.”
Be reasonable! so when Jesus PBUH said we will be like angels, he meant that we will have physical bodies?
He didn’t say you’ll be resurrected physically and spiritually, he just said: ANGELS>> I wonder do angles have physical bodies? Do we see them flying in the sky? Can we touch them? Pleeeeease answer :)
He was able to be touched, seen, and heard, so was he anything like angles??
@missgaga555 "He didn’t say you’ll be resurrected physically and spiritually." Actually, he and the prophets have said that the resurrection is a physical resurection from the beginning of time and the scriptures.
IE. The great prophet Isaiah, "Is. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my DEAD BODY shall they arise."
And as I have already made perfectly clear, Jesus SPECIFICALLY stated FROM HIS OWN MOUTH regarding the Messiah in this VERY SAME CHAPTER (Cont.)
"44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, THAT THE CHRIST would suffer and RISE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD on the third day,"
Jesus made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that the scriptures SPOKE OF HIM and that HE must SUFFER and DIE and (Cont.)
RISE FROM THE DEAD!!!!!! Why is that so darn hard for you to admit? Why indeed! Because the lie of Islam has taught you that he did not suffer, die, and RISE FROM THE DEAD as he stated he would from his own mouth.
Plain, simple, clear.
And yes angels have a physical body. How many times in scripture do angels appear in physical shape even EATING with people (Genesis 18, etc.)
Jesus stated his resurrection would be PHYSICAL. Paul agreed as I provided quotes form his writings.
And I repeat, 1 Corinthians 15, "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable; "
THE BODY IS RAISED. Paul. No disagreement. Because God SPOKE to Paul as merely a voice has NOTHIGN to do with Paul disagreeing with a physical resurrection as I have already demonstrated Paul believes in an PREACHES Jesus' physical resurrection.
Once again, it's you attempting to create a contradiction where none exists.
One question: Have you read my comments? again for the thousand time I’m not asking you to quote me scriptures that talk about resurrection (I'm NOT denying them), I’m asking you to EXPLAIN about theses specific scriptures that contradicts! my question was VERY CLEAR:
Jesus said we will be resurrected as angles, did he look anything like angels? (ANSWER THIS QUESTIN)
I’ll make the answer easier for you>> Are angles something physical that we can touch and see?
@missgaga555 You ask, "One question: Have you read my comments"
And to this I must reply as I have before: HAVE YOU READ MY ANSWERS!!!???!!!! Just as before when you complained that I had not answered and all I had to do was COPY AND PASTE my response, NOW I can do the same. PLEASE, I BEG YOU, quit complaining about the scriptures being posted long enough to actually READ THEM as they are the ANSWER to your question. (Cont.)
"36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.
You do not need MY explanation or my examples when the scriptures from God's mouth himself answer you questions. What does my opinion matter anyway?
Your first question, "Jesus said we will be resurrected as angles, did he look anything like angels? "
Please... READ the verse. "and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."
WHERE in that verse do you EVER see ANYTHING about LOOKING like an Angel?!?!? (Cont.)
The verse is SELF EXPLANATORY! HOW are they LIKE angels? "and they can no longer die"
BECAUSE they are children of God they are LIKE ANGELS which CAN NEVER DIE. The verse has NOTHING to do with LOOKING like an angel. It has EVERYTHING To do with their state of eternal nature. That is why you find Jesus saying things like, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28).
Paul tells you that our old bodies which are dying and corrupted by sin will be resurrected (PHYSICALLY!) in a perfected and glorified state (LIKE ANGELS!) "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable;" (1 Cor. 15) and just the same the prophets AGREED WITH PAUL AND JESUS when they said, "Is. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my DEAD BODY shall they arise."
The prophets taught it, Paul taught it, Jesus stated it from his own darn mouth!
If you weren't so obsessed with CREATING conflicts were none exist, you'd have seen that every question you asked in your last round of posts has already been answered.
And as I had ALSO already told you, when Jesus speaks to Paul on the road to Damascus, though Paul only HEARS a voice, what does this have to do AT ALL with Jesus' resurrection from the dead? Jesus had long since ascended to heaven. (Cont.)
His role as Messiah had long since been fulfilled (suffering, dying and rising from the dead on the third day.) There is no need for Jesus to appear physically to Paul. As God had called on Noah by his voice and as he had spoke from the flames with moses, so too Jesus spoke to Paul in his calling to serve him.
Please tell ME how THAT means that Paul, who consistently taught the PHYSICAL RESURRECTION of Jesus somehow means he is teaching that Jesus did not physically resurrect?
devil and hitler are angels compared to bible god. ; he orders women cut open to kill ther unborn, , he has women raped infront of families, has animals and suckilinhg BABIES smashed on rocks, ect ect devil never did such evil war crimes. biblle is from satan cos god never kill a baby ever, thers so much more filth in bible
mrlogicalman1 3 weeks ago
god have son, sound like pagans method of thinking... still can't comprehend why god need to be in human form and come to earth to preach human to worship god.. god have millions of angels and God can directly speak directly to all human heart.. God is far more powerful than any of the christian claimed to be..
shiromelur 1 month ago
@shiromelur do you know what there problem is of christians. They have made god to a human because they can comprend him but THAT is the problem. God cant be comprended because he is to mighty and great to be comprended.
Abdelmajid22 2 weeks ago
@Abdelmajid22
THAT S RIGHT BROTHER .THEY DONT THINK WITH LOGIC .HOW COULD THAT BE .FATHER (GOD) SEE PEOPLE KILLING HIS SON (JESSUS)AND HE DID NOT DO ANTHING .WHY
AS FATHER CAN U DO THAT .OF COURSE NOT .IF JESSUS IS HUMAN AND SON OF GOD WHY WE CAN NOT SEE THE FATHER .
PLEASE CHRISTIANS THINK BEFORE U ARGUE ABOUT THAT.
moroocanbeauty 2 weeks ago
by 4th century there was hundreds of diff gospels around so council of nicea 325ad chose which of these gospels to put in this new bible not god told them which gospels to put in . now to get pagans to join after centuries of human worship pagan beliefs they incorporated sum of these beliefs like trinity into bible merely to appease the intended customers so they were less reluctant to join then thats how 1 god became 3gods xtians do the same now change bible t get mo customers
sajakram1 2 months ago
No (: it is NOT!
Onur87Polat 4 months ago
CHRISTIANS AND JEWS, YOU CANT HELP AGREEING THAT AHMAD DEEDAT IS MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN ALL THE JEWS AND CHRISTIAN RABBI AND PRIEST BY FAR.
IS THERE ANY OTHER LEARNED MAN & GREAT DEBATER ON COMPARATIVE RELIGION BETTER THAN HE? IS THERE?
wira1800 4 months ago
WE MUST EACH SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR CHOICES, SO WE CANNOT ALLOW OTHER PEOPLE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR US. WE MUST NOT FOLLOW OTHERS BLINDLY, IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS, SEEK THE TRUTH. JESUS WAS BORN A MAN TO REPAY OUR SIN DEBT TO SATAN AND FREE US TO MAKE OUR CHOICE. HOW MUCH MUST YOU LOVE SOMEONE TO DIE FOR THEM, HE COULD HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO, IT WAS HIS CHOICE. COME, LIVE WITH HIM ETERNALY AND KNOW ONLY JOY AND PEACE, LET HIM WIPE AWAY YOUR TEARS. IT'S YOUR CHOICE, GOD BLESS
CRABBYBAG 4 months ago 2
My God is better than your God...You are all nuts!
keggs1961 5 months ago
Did Yesus say : I am a god ? Why God needs a son ?
MrMuladhi 6 months ago
death of deedat lost of world
rasheed863 6 months ago
God said his People would See Him (Isaiah 35:28)
Jesus said he gave us Eternal life (John 10:28) that He is in us(John 14-21), that His name is the name of God( John 8:58)
Islam is war against Jews and Christians sura 9:29-30 in which Islam has robbed dozens of Christian nations from Jesus including Turkey and Egypt.
No prophet was sent after the Messiah as only the Messiah is to return and he returns to rid the world of Satan which is Islam(Rev 20-10, Zechariah 12:9-10)
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
PROOF ISLAM IS NOT THE TRUE WAY
The Koran teaches that the earth is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. ."And the earth - We have spread out. (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable..." S. 15:19 Y. Ali
The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
islamfalse 6 months ago
If God can do everything then Jesus cant be God because in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Cant GOD do anything he wills. The trinity doctrine has confused the minds of millions of people.
GuulChannel 6 months ago 2
Islam is war against Jews and Christians sura 9:29-30 so Muslims don't care for evidence that contradicts Muhammad and his invented religion of hate for Muslims are killed if they become Apostates, which is proof the Quran is contradictions and a religion of compulsion.
Jesus is God because he gave us Eternal life, he is the Light, the Truth and the Way, and He is IN ALL People on earth John 14-20
But he will prove it best when he wars against those who come against Israel
Zechariah 12-9-10
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago 2
@BonjourNuit120 If Jesus is God, Mother Mary is the mother of Jesus, than therefore that means Mother Mary is the Mother of God... Wouldn't that consider a Pagan Religion?
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor There is one God in Christianity, the Father is the Creator who came into creation known as the Son which is God incarnate. As Mary gave birth to Jesus who was and is God incarnate that makes her, his Mother while he walked the earth 2000 years ago. As it is abnormal that God took on a human form, it is also abnormal to be called the Mother of God, yet Mary was the Mother of God because God did come as Jesus. But a pagan religion is Islam that bows down to an idol in the kaaba
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 "Jesus who was and is God" If Jesus was God, why can't he avoid cruxification? it's said in the New Testament that, "My father is greater that I" John 14:28 It also said that "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." John 5:30 So therefore Jesus can't be God, but a son of man, in this case, son of woman. The "Holy Bible" is a contradiction.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Mary was Not a Goddess, there is One God who created existence and this One True God came as Jesus as he said he would. I heard the term Mother of God, twice in my lifetime, once on Jerry Seinfeld and once by you. No one ever worshiped Mary as a Goddess. It is a false accusation in sura 5:116 by Muhammad who claimed Christian worship 2 gods and Mary as a god when this was never the trinity
Paganism is when people worship idols like Allah who was and remains an idol in the kaaba.
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
Respond to this video...
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Muslims think they submit to God because they bow down towards an idol in the kaaba but true submission is to obey God's commands that we care for people and not just those of our faith when Islam is war against non Muslims and hypocrites. Islam breaks everyone of God's Ten Commandments. Jews or Christians do not face Jerusalem to pray. For God is everywhere and we pray directly to God where ever we are in the world.
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 "it is also abnormal to be called the Mother of God, yet Mary was the Mother of God because God did come as Jesus" You said Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God making her a Goddess, so if there is a Goddess and a God, that will mean it's a Paganism. Islam means Submission. Muslim means submission to God. My friend, they face in the direction of Kaaba, just like Jews facing Jerusalem when they pray. Look up Kaaba, and see how special the Kaaba is.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Muslims use to pray towards Jerusalem, but when Muhammad realized Jews were not going to fall for his falsehood, then Muhammad changed directions and concocted a big story that Abraham and Ishmael built it but an old man past his nineties was not going to walk hundreds of miles into a desert with a child just to build a house that contained the idols of 360 gods. The Kaaba is indeed special to you Muslims, but it is not special to God for it is proof Muslims bow down to an idol
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Abraham and Moses were Hebrew and the Jewish Bible was in Hebrew which Muhammad could not know. Jews were not envious because they knew Only Jews could be prophets, it was Muhammad who was envious
Muhammad claimed that Jesus didn't die on the cross when Jesus willingly went to the cross to prove he is God for Christianity came into existence After Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead and not before. Only Islam is false as it violates all of God's Ten Commandments
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Jesus is God for he said his humanbody is not as Great as when he returns to being Omnipresent as is the Father
Jesus is in all people at the same time (John 14-20) which is the ability of the Holy Spirit of God or omnipresence of God
For the Father is a term for Creator and the Son is a term for God incarnated into creation
You do not know the Jews in Jesus' days never spoke in the first person, they never said I am. Jesus was referring to Himself when he spoke of the Father
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 If Jesus is God, why does Jesus pray to the Father, this doesn't make any sense when he prays to himself, interesting. Father is the Creator, which means God, and the Son is a term for God incarnated into creation, that would mean Jesus is a Prophet, and really powerful prophet.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor
No prophet was sent after the Messiah as only Jesus is to return, the Quran came after the Bible,
the Quran claims to confirm the scriptures but Muslims realize the Quran contradicts the Bible as well as itself but the Bible remains the word of God simply because God honors his promises without needing your Muslim approval.
Islam is not from God but uses God to do evil such as to deceive and oppress its own followers
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 If no prophet was sent after the Messiah, then why did Jesus said in Gospel of John 15:26? The Quran does not contradict the Bible, the bible contradict itself. If the Bible is the word of God, why are there 40+ copies of it, without having the "Original" copy of it on Earth? Whereas there is a Qur'an which is in Arabic, still having the original today? You read too many commentary books after Islam, why do you read commentary when you do not read the main source?
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor John 15:26 states when the Counselor comes and the Counselor as in Isaiah 9:6 is
Jesus for The Trinity is One God, the creator who came into creation to return people to the knowledge God is in them to guide them
Muhammad denied that Jesus died on the cross and that contradicts the Bible
Jesus rose from the dead to approach his apostles then baptize them with the Holy Spirit or God's own presence that is in all people on earth
The Holy Spirit(Comforter and Counselor) is God
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Here you are saying the Bible is corrupt yet you are trying to use a passage from the Bible to endorse Muhammad. You have no proof that the Bible is corrupt yet we have proof that a Bible dated 2000 years ago is the same then as now which proves only the Quran is corrupt for Muhammad had no Quran in his hand when he died, the Quran came into existence by his successors who burnt all the evidence.
I don't need to know Arabic to know Muhammad was never a prophet of the God of Israel
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 corrupted as in many copies, no original, and if you say its dated back 2000 years ago, you have no brain what-so-ever, THINK MAN! it's dated back approximately 4000 years ago, and if you're smart enough, it's DATED BACK WHEN THE EARTH IS MADE!!!! you spreading the Word of God and said it's dated back 2000 years ago, I said it dated back when Earth was MADE!
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor You have no original of the Qur'an. Utham burned them because it had become corrupted.
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak The Qur'an original is in Arabic. Utham burned it, but it was brought to life by people memorizing it word for word. Qur'an meaning recital.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor Fact: There is no original Qur'an. Fact: Followers of Muhammad disagreed about the verbal recitations. Fact: It can in NO WAY be determined that you have the true to original texts.
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak Show me your facts regards to what you said.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor The Bible remains the Word of God because God honors his promises to this day.
My source of knowledge about Islam is from both the Bible and the Quran itself. Islam is not from God but contradicts God to the extremity that God will destroy Islam and that information IS IN the Bible.
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 The Bible still remain the Word of God, True, but some. There are so many copies to the point, as a Christian(which is ME!), ponder where the hell is the original COPY! that's what's frustrate me so much. Look at Ezekiel 8:16 from many different copies, one said 25, the other said 5 to 25, the other said 5, so which one is TRUE!? man bonjournuit120, the more i questions the Bible, the more it leads me to Islam.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor You ask, "If Jesus is God, Mother Mary is the mother of Jesus, than therefore that means Mother Mary is the Mother of God... Wouldn't that consider a Pagan Religion?"
No. The question shows the common Muslim misunderstanding of the nature of the Messiah. The Messiah is both fully human and fully God. Mary gave birth to the human Jesus who was brought into existence by God. God was never born. God never died. God never sleeps, eats, or was tempted. The human Jesus was.
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak "The Messiah is both fully human and fully God. Mary gave birth to the human Jesus who was brought into existence by God. God was never born. God never died. God never sleeps, eats, or was tempted. The human Jesus was." That's like saying a starburst, "it's solid yet juicy like a liquid ."(contradiction) To you Jesus is God. Jesus sleeps, eats, and tempted, if Jesus is God, why does he do these stuff when you stated God never died, sleep,eats and etc. To me, no understanding.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
Muslims were taught that Jesus didn't die on the cross but another who Looked like him, died in his place.
That means Muhammad is calling Jesus a liar.
Since Islam is war against Christianity sura 9:29-30, Muslims openly attack our beliefs, after all the robbed from Jesus both Turkey and Egypt.
But Only Islam has demons that praise the Quran sura 72-1 and that is proof Islam is not from God but from Satan
For Jesus is God Almighty and he will prove it when he destroys Islam.
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@BonjourNuit120 For me, there are TWO things that the Qur'an claim that the Muslims MUST be able to demonstrate since the Qur'an makes these claims. They must be able to demonstrate that Jesus was never crucified and that Muhammad is found in the Law (Torah) and in the Gospels. They fail on both points and consequently Islam fails.
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak You are right, the Muslims never can prove sura 4:157 for Christianity came into existence After Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead, moreover they can never prove sura 7:157 for Muhammad was never mentioned in either the Torah or the NT. For God is not forgetful, God chose Isaac over Ishmael to carry as Everlasting the covenant, thus prophetic line Genesis 17-19
Islam is a military Totalitarian ideology under the guise of religion in which Allah is an idol in the kaaba sura 21:58
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago 2
@BonjourNuit120 i agree to that. satan will always find way to confuse people on what is the truth. and through religion he is using.
christianity is not a religion its a way of living In faith a lone and in Christ alone.
lunaticbomber11 6 months ago
@lunaticbomber11 Muslims are too afraid to question the Quran, with its contradictions,its hatred, its bribes, its extreme violence, which in turn makes Muslims blind slaves of Satan.
Satan is not only an oppressor, a liar and a murderer, Satan poses as a great light( religion),and the Biblical prophecies reveal Islam is from Satan
God came as Jesus to remind us that He is in us (John 14-20) Those who request His Holy Spirit or Comforter become aware of His loving Presence(Isaiah 35:2-8)
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
@lunaticbomber11 Well stated, Christianity never was meant to be a religion, but a way of life called the way of Holiness as in Isaiah 35:8
The Way of Holiness is knowing, experiencing the Loving Presence of God or Holy Spirit who came as Jesus. There is no greater experience in being alive than to know God knows you and loves you. It is God's Will that one day all the world will experience God, and that day forward there shall be no more tears, sickness or death
Revelation 21:3-4
Blessings 2U
BonjourNuit120 6 months ago
The truth is: we know very little about God. I have just published a fictional novel that is sure to surprise most folks and send this message like no other. Visit Amazon and click on Gaud's Trial by Hannah Faye.
habdulkh 7 months ago
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WHO CARES IF JESUS GOD OR NOT.THE QUESTIONS OF DOGMA DON'T INTEREST ME.I WANT TO SEE GOOD ACTIONS.I PREFER SOMEONE WHO TELLS YOU TO WORSHIP A PEACE OF ROCK BUT ALSO TELLS YOU TO LOVE, TO SHOW RESPECT FOR LIFE,TO ABSTAIN FROM KILLING THAN A RELIGION LIKE ISLAM THAT PREACHES MONOTHEISM BUT KILLS IN THE NAME OF GOD. KILLING IS THE MOST HORRIBLE OF ALL SINS.ISLAM KILLS AND THE PROPHET OF ISLAM WAS A KILLER. IT IS NOT ME WHO SAYS IT, IT IS THE MUSLIM CANONICAL TEXTS THAT TELL US ABOUT HIS CRIMES
DulceMuchacho 7 months ago
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I'M NOT CHRISTIAN BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY MUSLIMS ARE LEAVING ISLAM. AT LEAST JESUS PREACHED LOVE, PEACE, RESPECT FOR LIFE. HE SAVED A WOMAN FROM BEING STONED (ISLAM STONES).HE ABOLISHED THE LAW OF AN EYE FOR AN EYE (ISLAM REINSTATED IT). JESUS SAID TO LOVE ONE'S ENEMIES AND WAS NEVER INVOLVED IN WARS. ISLAM CAME 6 CENTURIES AFTER BUT IT IS A MESSAGE OF WAR, HATRED. THE QURAN TELLS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT 2:193, 8:39, 9:29. THE HADITHS TELL US HOW MUHAMMED KILLED, LOOTED, RAPED, DIVIDED THE BOOTY
DulceMuchacho 7 months ago
For those of you who are not aware. Deedat clearly recieved the judgement of God after his speech against the bible in Australia. About 4 weeks after that speech, and past warnings, he was struck with a stroke and rendered speechless until his death some 10yrs later. He may have still been alive, had he humbled himself before God.
TLIGFE 7 months ago
@TLIGFE It's called Old Age there buddy.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor yes buddy very observant of you. He was old. He was also openly rebuked in a letter from christian ministers in Durban, that if he continued his defamatory and unscholarly attacks on the bible, and did not humble himself, that Gods judgement would befall him. Deedat had ample opportunity. it wasnt till about 18 months later when he arrogantly disrespected Jesus in Australia that he became sick.
TLIGFE 6 months ago
@TLIGFE He has been doing this since majority of his life, as early as 1942, so it took 63 years for God to strike Deedat? no sense what-so-ever. and if you say he "attacks on the bible" you're quick to judge, he points out the flaws and misconception of people having on the bible. In this case, he's saying Jesus is not God.
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
@ARVNReEnactor no it didnt take 63 yrs for God to strike him. If you take note it happened AFTER he was rebuked, just like when Paul rebuked the man in the bible, he was blinded. God's will is for all to be saved through his Son Jesus. But please be aware that Christains have the authority through Jesus Christ to be embassadors.
TLIGFE 6 months ago
@TLIGFE Ok cool. *shrug*
ARVNReEnactor 6 months ago
YES...Jesus is God....
blitznk9 7 months ago
@blitznk9
are you sure?
What makes him God?
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 HE said he was GOD..And the Bible says he's GOD..
blitznk9 7 months ago
@blitznk9
1/3
There is not a single statement in the bible where Jesus clearly declares that he is God!
In fact he DENIES THAT:
Jesus distinguished himself from God:
Do not call me good, only God should be called so.! Mark 10:18
Not my will but God will. (Luke 22:41-42,Mark 14:36)
He says you, the only true God. John 17:3
He said in his own he can do NOTHING! John 5:19
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 He also told Philip he was the father,..John chapter 1 also says he is God..Jesus is God,Jesus also was fully man..He was God,and man..
blitznk9 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "There is not a single statement in the bible where Jesus clearly declares that he is God!"
Actually there are many. They are perfectly clear TO HIS AUDIENCE to whom he was speaking 2,000 years ago. And a CLEAR example of this?
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
Now pay close attention here (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, CLAIM TO BE GOD.”
His audience understood perfectly well that this was a CLEAR CLAIM OF DEITY.
You then quoted, "Do not call me good, only God should be called so.! Mark 10:18"
Please show me in this passage or for that matter ANY passage where Jesus asserts he is NOT Good. In fact, the opposite is true. Jesus refers to himself as THE (not a) GOOD Shepherd. (John 10:14) (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
ONLY GOD is THE GOOD Shepherd (Psalm 23).
Then you talk about Jesus praying, and saying "My God"and other such examples. What you fail to realize is that Christianity has taught from the foundation that Jesus is fully man and fully God. Thus, as a fully human Jew, he wept, prayed, worshiped, etc. as all righteous Jews did.
Then you point to John 5:19. Now this verse I'd LOVE to walk you through line by line because the context actually PROVES my point that he is God. For now let's (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
look at John 5:19. You failed to quote the WHOLE verse.
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
He ONLY DOES what he SEES HIS FATHER DOING. The verse NEVER stated that he can do nothing by himself. Whatever he SEES the Father doing, THE SON ALSO DOES!
Now... what prophet EVER in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD would make such a claim. (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
Jesus claimed that he could do WHATEVER he saw the Father doing. THAT is a FULL CLAIM to deity. Thank you for referencing the verse that clearly shows his deity.
You then reference John 5:7 as being thrown out (actually it's 1 John 5:7) There are a total of 18-22 verses that scholars believe are scribal notations and not actual passages of scripture. There are 7,956 verses in the NT alone. So, 22 verses would represent .002% of scripture. These 22 verses effect no single doctrine (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
of the Christian faith.
But What about the SAME THING in Islam with the Qur'an. Muslims like to talk about how "pure" the Qur'an is and yet the logic simply holds no water.
Utham burned copies of the early manuscripts. Every Muslim acknowledges this. So, it's a simple question. Did Uthman burn variants that differed or did he burn the true and correct word of Allah. There's no inbetween. Christians are simply more intellectually honest about the extreme minimal amount of variants.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/10
Jesus denies the crucifixion according to Luke 24: 36-43, he proves that he has a physical body, when he supposed to be “resurrected” and be in a spiritual body, I’d like you to prove me wrong and explain how this can happen?
LOGIC EXPLANATION :)
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "Jesus denies the crucifixion" You will NEVER find a place that Jesus says he did not die, was not crucified, or any such notion.
Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead. He challenged the disciples to look at and touch his hands and his feet which had the nail holes present (proving HE personally was CRUCIFIED - John 20:25-27).
Had you read further you would have found that Jesus explains that the Messiah MUST DIE and rise from the dead. (Luke 24:46)
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/10
“Jesus asserted MANY MANY times that he came to die for the sins of mankind”
Two points:
Is it really for all mankind? I believe there was MANY GENERATIONS before his crucifixion, since Adam PBUH! If believing in his crucifixion is what is going to get us heaven, what happened to these poor generations who didn’t even hear about this event, did they go to hell?
Secondly, why he is crying and wailing to God about leaving him on the cross? I thought it was his choice! Wasn’t it?
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 Salvation has always been the same. The law required sacrifice for the atonement of sin.
"For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life." Leviticus 17:11
"In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22
Jesus is the PERFECT sacrifice and thus we need no more.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
3/10
If anything the burning event PROVES that the Quran was properly reserved :)
“Did Uthman burn variants that differed or did he burn the true and correct word of Allah.” your question says that U believe there was a true word of God after Jesus PBUH!!
The answer:
ALL THE QURAN was written by Zaid Bin Thabit at the time of prophet and it was verified personally by the prophet, the scriptures was ONLY COLLECTED IN ONE BOOK NOT WRITTEN at the time of Abu Bakr & Omar God bless them.
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "ALL THE QURAN was written by Zaid Bin Thabit "
False. There were many people who had pieces of the Qur'an. Google Hafsah codex. Uthman BURNED SOMETHING. Either he burned ACCURATE texts from Allah or he burned variants. There is NO IN BETWEEN!
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
4/10
This one book was reserved with Hafasah the prophet wife, What Uthman wanted to do is to send copies to far countries, so he made copies of this ONLY ONE BOOK, then he burned ANY, AND ALL other Quran notes whether it was right or wrong Quran, because he found Muslims qouting their own comments to be the right Quran, so he commanded all the notes to be burned!
Some Muslims even refused to hand their notes but at the end it was burned all and the one book is what ONLY remained!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 " whether it was right or wrong Quran,"
So... you ACKNOWLEDGE that there were WRONG Qur'an texts?
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
5/10
Lolz John 10:30 why don’t you quote the earlier verses? He clearly speaks that they are one in purpose as he says earlier no one will snatch them out of his hand or the father hand >> so he ended by saying that they are one! VERY CLEAR! Furthermore, if you think that they are one unit loolz then why Jesus says My Father is greater than I?? Aren’t they are one? Aren’t they are equle?
And come one what are yo trying to bring to God? The Jews are stoning God?! You believe that?!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "He clearly speaks that they are one in purpose"
False. As I have ALREADY PROVEN, his AUDIENCE (The people he was speaking to) FULLY UNDERSTOOD that this was a claim of deity as they SAID EXACTLY THAT to his face. YOU, trying to CHANGE that context some 2,000 years later cannot change that fact.
His AUDIENCE fully understood that it was a claim of deity and do you see Jesus deny it? No.
Fact stands.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
6/10
LOLZ I didn’t quote Mark to say Jesus is not Good!!! He is Good for sure!
Mark phrase is something that we all say, it means that no one is comparable to God in Goodness, but it doesn’t mean that we are not good people!
>> What I’m saying is how come he says only God can be called Good when he is God?? How come he refuses to be called Good when he is God? EXPLAIN! he clearly made a difference between himself and God!
IT CAN’T BE MORE OBVIOUSE that he is saying I’M NOT GOD!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "LOLZ I didn’t quote Mark to say Jesus is not Good!!! He is Good for sure!"
Only God is good. Thank you for proving my point. Jesus never denied being good. He simply ASKED the man who only acknowledged him as "Rabbi" (Teacher) why he called him good. The man had no understanding of who Jesus was and thus should never refer to a mere Rabbi as "Good" since only God is good.
Thank you for acknowledging Jesus is good.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
7/10
(Jesus is fully man and fully God) I swear if you say this to a 4 years old kid he will laugh at you and I’m not trying to be funny! You just said the MOST TWO OPPOSITE things in the world fully man and fully God! This can’t be logic what makes God, a God if he is fully man? Fully man, that means he, WITH ALL RESPEC, would go to the toilet? You’re the one who said FULLY, then he does what normal men do, he eats and he needs an outlet!
What kinda God who is fully man??
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 The two natures never mix. He is simultaneously and SEPARATELY God and Man. God never goes to the toilet. The HUMAN Jesus goes to the toilet.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
8/10
John 5:19
You quoted the whole verse that gives the same meaning Lools! The son in his own can do nothing without the father
FULL CLAIM to deity>> Where did you see that, I’m serious, being usless wihtout the father is a full claim to diety? Being usless without God simply mean being a human being, NOT God, so the question remains, how God in his own can do nothing?? Why he just can do what that father do?
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 Please tell me what being apart from God can do ANYTHING they see the Father do? There are NONE. The Angels cannot speak the universe into existence. The mightiest of prophets cannot. Yet scripture states that through Jesus ALL THINGS came into being.
Jesus proceeds to tell you in the following passages that JUST AS THE FATHER GIVES LIFE so too he gives life to WHOMEVER he pleases. Jesus tells you that the Father will not judge but that HE will judge all mankind. GOD ONLY!
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
9/10
1 John 5:7 what an amazing survey :) So I’m asking are God words can be a fabrication, can be wrong? Why your scholars keeps throwing verses out of the bible, I think the bible should be perfect since it is God words? But this is normal as your bible was written by different 40 MEN and you don’t even have full biography of all thes men, So the bible is written by anonymous men! On the other hand there is not a single letter was thrown out of the Quran after 1400 years:)
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "So I’m asking are God words can be a fabrication, can be wrong?"
No, and they never have been. "Why your scholars keeps throwing verses out of the bible, I think the bible should be perfect since it is God words?"
Sorry. There's no "Keep throwing out." There are 18-22 verses that are considered "Questionable." .002% and unlike Uthman who BURNED these variants, Christianity is simply more honest about the verses.
So, let me ask you, is it THE MAN who makes scripture holy?
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
10/10
And you didn’t explain about when Jesus says literally, my father, and my God! God has a God?
John 20:17, John 17:3
FYI Prophet Muhammed is mentioned in your own bible IN MANY scriptures :) the bible actually testify that a true prophet is the one who confesses that Jesus is the Christ, and YES prophet Muhammed confessed that Jesus PBUH is the Christ! SO ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE TEST OF TRUE PRPHETS; PROPHET MUHAMMED IS A TRUE ONE :)
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "And you didn’t explain about when Jesus says literally, my father, and my God! God has a God?"
Actually, yes I did explain. Perhaps if you hadn't posted 10 separate comments you would have been more able to follow the answers. Jesus was FULLY man. Thus, as a FULLY HUMAN Jew he prayed, ate, worshiped, cried, went to the restroom, etc.
And no... Muhammed is mentioned no where in scripture. Only the fabrication of Deedat and the like. No real scholar makes that claim.
jorsak 7 months ago
PS. I remember you saying something about Jesus crying out on the cross as proof that he did not want to die or something like that and was unsure if I answered you on that point (part of the difficulty of many many posts.)
Jesus was QUOTING scripture rather than "Crying out." HE was QUOTING Psalm 22:1 which is a messianic Psalm which FORETELLS the CRUCIFIXION. Read Psalm 22 carefully and pay close attention to verse 16. There are no less than 16 prophecies fulfilled in that Psalm by Jesus.
jorsak 7 months ago
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jorsak 7 months ago
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PPS. On the subject of Muhammad in the Bible: Shabir Ali is probably considered one of, if not THE top Muslim debater on the circuit right now. Watch James White thoroughly debunk his arguments in debate on that subject here:
/watch?v=He87MiAWq90&feature=player_embeddedml
and here:
/watch?v=qR37F0cSrjo&feature=player_embedded
I hope I have thoroughly and completely answered all of your questions.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/13
Like you didn’t post hundred comments? At least mine are organized :D
YES! Your memory is Good! I did mention that he was wailing, your Bible says that Mark 15:34, now two questions, since he came to DIE BY CHOICE why he is screaming on the cross? Secondly, since he is God, How he is crying by calling MY GOD MY GOD?
But your memory might be wrong here as YOU DIDN’T explain about John 17:3, John 20:17, anyways pls copy your explanation from the invisible comment and post again
missgaga555 7 months ago
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jorsak 7 months ago
@missgaga555 Regarding post 1/13:
I deleted my lengthy reply to this 2 part question and am going to focus only on answer the first question in depth as I have answered it twice before and it was missed in the volume of responses. I initially posted ONE post in RESPONSE to your assertion. You followed that up with 7 posts. Then 10 posts and now 13 posts.
My RESPONSES to YOUR questions are simply that. RESPONSES. Thus the volume and order are dictated by you. Thus any personal (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
attack about the quality or order are actually self-directed criticism as I am merely RESPONDING to your questions.
Thus, to help resolve this issue, I am going to focus ONLY on the FIRST question and once thoroughly answered, we can return to your previous questions. I hope you find that agreeable and possibly less confusing.
In your first post, you asked: two questions, since he came to DIE BY CHOICE why he is screaming on the cross? Secondly, since he is God, (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
How he is crying by calling MY GOD MY GOD?"
As I stated previously, Jesus is quoting the messianic Psalm 22. This Psalm is a detailed look at the event of the crucifixion. Jesus QUOTES from it to indicate that it is fulfilled in the very sight of those present rather than your notion that he was "Crying out" in any form of regret for his situation.
Psalm 22:1 begins, " 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Recognize anything familiar there?
The psalm continues on to state (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
numerous characteristics of the Messiah and the event of the crucifixion. There are no less than 16 prophecies in that Psalm that Jesus fulfilled by the crucifixion and the events the immediately lead up to it. I want you to pay close attention to verse 16, however, which states, " Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet."
How COINCIDENTAL that Jesus quotes FROM THE CROSS a Psalm indicating pierced hands and feet. Yes? Obviously it is on (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
purpose that he does so.
Now. Have I sufficiently answered why Jesus quoted "My God, My God..." when he was on the cross. If you are satisfied with the response, we can move forward to the rest of your questions.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/5
Loolz I didn’t attack you, and why do you keep referring to my length comments! You brought many issues up especially about Uthman burning the Quran, so I had to give a clear long reply because I don’t like to go around questions like how most Christians do!
I really don’t see the point of you not answering all the questions, do you think that any point will ever be totally settled over some comments?! So basically the other questions won’t ever get answered!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "Loolz I didn’t attack you," No, you just said my comments were unorganized.
" and why do you keep referring to my length comments! "
Because I first posted 1 response to a statement you made. You responded with SEVEN responses, then 10, and then 13. I introduced ONE new topic outside of my RESPONSES. Never the less...
The point of not answering ALL the questions is that it is ludicrous to address THIRTEEN posts , each of which requires typically 1 to 3 posts.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/5
as for psalm, Christians think that it is a prophecy, yet the Jews say it is not talking about Jesus but about King David and his pains! I really don’t know who to believe Loolz oh well..
You didn’t really answer my question, I didn’t ask from where Jesus got these words, my question was WHY he is saying such words on the cross? when he suppose to be coming to the world HAPPY to die on the cross, so why he is crying instead? it is not about the source it is about the content!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "as for psalm, Christians think that it is a prophecy, yet the Jews say it is not talking about Jesus but about King David and his pains!"
It really matters little that the Jewish community prescribes this to Messiah since it was prophesied that they would REJECT Messiah as you a Muslim well know they reject Jesus as even a Prophet. (Though it is entirely false that all Jews say this is only about King David as there are MANY who recognize it as a messianic Psalm).
(Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
You then say, "You didn’t really answer my question, I didn’t ask from where Jesus got these words, my question was WHY he is saying such words on the cross?"
To which I am honestly, AMAZED. PLEASE, I beg you READ the response. He said these words BECAUSE HE WAS QUOTING SCRIPTURE. The SCRIPTURE HE QUOTED is ALL ABOUT the crucifixion. It literally DESCRIBES THE SCENE of the CRUCIFIXION.
Why is that so incomprehensible for you? He quoted it to state to all that it was fulfilled (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
by him AT THAT MOMENT. As I have already stated REPEATEDLY, there were no less than SIXTEEN fulfilled prophecies in that ONE Psalm by Jesus via the CRUCIFIXION.
You can say along with the Jew that the Psalm is merely about King David but that does not explain why Jesus QUOTED FROM IT while ON THE CROSS and that once you READ the Psalm you see that it is a clear depiction of the events of the crucifixion.
Anyone who is intellectually honest recognizes that fact.
(cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
You then go on to ask, " when he suppose to be coming to the world HAPPY to die on the cross,"
WHAT?!?!? Since when does he have to be HAPPY about dying for the sins of the world via the gruesome and humiliating process he went through? WHERE DOES IT EVER say that he had to be HAPPY? The only thing Jesus HAD to be was WILLING and THAT is EXACTLY what you see.
“My Father, if it is POSSIBLE, may this cup be taken from me. Yet NOT AS I WILL, but AS YOU WILL.”
Jesus bore all the sins (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
of ALL mankind, not EXCITEDLY, but WILLINGLY.
And thus, by that alone are you saved. Just as Jesus said with his own mouth, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
This is all completely consistent with 100% of what Jesus REPEATEDLY told you that Islam denies making Jesus a liar.
YOU put into scriptures YOUR ideas (He must be happy) and thus YOU create conflict where none really exists.
The simple fact is that Jesus PLAINLY told (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
that he came to die. PLAINLY! And REPEATEDLY!
Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34 and MANY More. He told you EXACTLY How he would die by crucifixion and he did so REPEATEDLY. (Matthew 20:19, 26:2, etc.)
You only strive to create conflict where none exists because the false gospel you were sold SAYS he was not crucified.
The point is proven.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
For God sake stop going around the question!
Here is my question and I’ll post it VERY CLEARLY, and I want a CLEAR answer, AGAIN CLEAR ANSWER!
If Jesus did it WILLENGLY, why he prayed to God THREE TIMES to avoid him this? Matthew 26:39
I believe when you come to the world for a purpose, and more important you WANT to achieve this purpose, you don’t go and ask God the opposite of your purpose, that just DOESN’T MAKE SENSE AT ALL! EXPLAIN!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555
As already stated, Jesus doesn't NEED to be HAPPY or EXCITED about the idea of being beaten beyond recognition, spit on and mocked, having the skin ripped from his back, and ultimately being nailed to a cross in a form of punishment (Crucifixion) that was SO extreme in it's pain that the romans had to CREATE a word to describe its pain (Excruciating - or ex meaning out of and cruciating meaning the cross. The pain is SO BAD it is the pain that comes OUT OF The cross.)
(cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
Jesus, who was also FULLY HUMAN remember and that is important to remember, saw what he was going to have to experience and most certainly as would be expected was UNEXCITED about the events coming. WHO in their RIGHT MIND wouldn't be? He was also about to have the sins of all mankind placed on him and experience sin for the first time in all of history. He who knew no sin took on all our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). Can you imagine the weight of all the sin of all mankind? Just that (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
alone would be enough to make you sweat blood. If you had been taught something differently than the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross and were it not on you to try and dismiss it because the Qur'an dismisses it and had you simply studied the events for yourself with an honest and open reading of the information, this would be easy to see, logical and reasonable.
What you see is that the evidence for the crucifixion is overwhelming and it was confirmed by Jesus' own mouth (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
repeatedly. He didn't say that he came to die once or twice. He said it repeatedly. He even told you in advance NUMEROUS times that he would die by crucifixion and that he must suffer at the hands of the Jewish leaders. He even specifically states that the Messiah must die.
"This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day," (Luke 24:46)
He will RISE FROM THE DEAD. That is a direct quote from Jesus' mouth.
It is simply plain and clear and (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
there is no real argument against it. Of course the Muslim's response once the argument is solidly demonstrated will be that the texts are corrupted. That is a whole different conversation but the texts as shown prove it and you have to admit that.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/3
have you read the one comment I posted?
I didn't say happy, I said willingly!
you want to pass an exam, you ask God to not pass the exam?
Jesus repeatedly and in many NUMEROUS times said that he would die by crucifixion>>GREAT! so this is why he came to this earth, this is his purpose, then HOW ON EARTH HE ASKS GOD TO AVOID HIM HIS PURPOSE?!> So he came for this goal, yet he asks God to not give him his goal?? Any sense here?
Give a logic explanation, and a CLEAR one Pleeeese!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "have you read the one comment I posted? I didn't say happy, I said willingly!"
If you made the argument that Jesus was unwilling, then the argument was even weaker than arguing he wasn't happy about it because Jesus flat out says that He was WILLING to abide by the will of the Father which plainly stated was for Jesus to die by crucifixion so your argument is completely undone.
You then state, "you want to pass an exam, you ask God to not pass the exam?"
Poor example. (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
My Father tells me to mow the yard. I say I will. I wake in the morning to look at the news report and the news report says it's going to be 110 degrees outside and the humidity level is 90%. I KNOW that mowing today is going to a huge pain. I go to dad and say, "Dad, I would really prefer if you would hire someone to mow the yard but if you want me to do it, I will."
THAT would be a fair example.
At this point, you're really hanging on to a thin thread here. You've been (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
thoroughly refuted on each of your points. I've demonstrated by exact quote that Jesus stated from his own mouth that he came to die, would die by crucifixion and that he specifically would DIE and rise from the DEAD. You cannot refute those statements.
You're clinging to this notion that he was unwilling and yet his EXACT statement proves you wrong. He would abide by the Father's will.
Argument closed.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/3
I didn’t mention the corruption at all!! I think I’ve been discussing with you your own scriptures not the Qurans!
Yes I remember that he was fully human, and I also remember that you didn’t reply my earlier question, how Jesus was simultaneously a man, and a God but at the same time they were separated? (simultaneously, and separated)?
Didn’t you say that you’re going to leave it until the end to explain,why are you bringing it up ,explain it first before you use it as a proof!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "I didn’t mention the corruption at all!! I think I’ve been discussing with you your own scriptures not the Qurans!"
I know you didn't. I stated that it is TYPICAL of a Muslim at this point now that the argument has been pretty thoroughly established to make the complaint that the texts are corrupted.
"Yes I remember that he was fully human... explain it first before you use it as a proof!
Muslims accept that Jesus is fully human. I do not need you to accept his deity (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
in order to prove that he willingly went to the cross, died, and resurrected after 3 days all of which proves that Islam is false and makes Jesus out to be a liar.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/7
The exact same thing with Jesus: He came for the purpose of passing this horrible crucifixion in order to save the humanity, would he ask God to help him passing this crucifixion to save humans, or ask God to avoid him the whole thing which will lead to not achieving his purpose and will put all mankind in hell?
The logic thing to do is to ask God help him, because what is the point of him coming down to earth, to die for the sins,and then he asks God to avoid him the whole thing?
missgaga555 7 months ago
@jorsak
3/7
“would really prefer if you would hire someone to mow the yard but if you want me to do it, I will."
Wow you gave such a BEATIFUL example, so you’re CLEARLY saying that it wasn’t even a hesitation but Jesus desire was to not get crucified at all, because he prefers to not get crucified but he did it JUST for the sake of the father?! >> so it is what the father wanted not Jesus?!
So Jesus didn’t really want to die for my sins?!!!! This is what you're saying :)
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 You state and ask, "so it is what the father wanted not Jesus?! So Jesus didn’t really want to die for my sins?!!!! This is what you're saying :)"
And my response is, does it really matter? YOU are trying, through created examples, to find some flaw that you can cling to since scripture has plainly and clearly refuted your (Islamic) position.
Whether Jesus, the human, wanted to experience the pain of the cross or not does not matter. He did and went willingly to it. Proven.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
4/7
Did Jesus want for mankind to go to hell? or he didn't care if we do?>> cuz when Jesus asked God to avoid him the crucifixion he WAS AWARE that if God gave him what he wants that will lead all human beings to GO TO HELL, and still he asked him! so basically Jesus didn't really care if we get saved or not, he just wanted to not get crucified, and he did it for the Father NOT for us! Why should we worship him then? It’s pretty clear that he didn’t care that much, don’t you see it?!!!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "cuz when Jesus asked God to avoid him the crucifixion he WAS AWARE that if God gave him what he wants that will lead all human beings to GO TO HELL"
No. What he ASKED his Father was to let the cup pass HIM by. Jesus asked for God the Father to find another way to save mankind IF POSSIBLE but would ACCEPT whatever the Father gave him.
Messiah crucified willingly! And in so doing, Islam proven false.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
5/7
“And is Jesus WILLING to do to his death in accord with his FATHER's Will”
Again and again you’re saying father will, so clearly you’re emphasizing that Jesus never wanted to save us, he just did it for the father :)
Believe me typical Muslims don’t do that, I can easily bring you a verse from the Quran that says clearly Jesus didn’t get crucified! What’s your reply is going to be for that? Your book is false!
It’s not really Muslims who face arguments by the corruption :)
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 " What’s your reply is going to be for that? Your book is false!"
Let's consider the logic of it. The prophet's foretold the event. The Law requires sacrifice for sin. The Messiah plainly told you that he came to die repeatedly, how he would die and even WHY he must die.
And YOUR book which follows some 600 years LATER says it didn't happen. What would the logical response be? The book that followed 600 years later is false. Yes. It denies the crucifixion and yet (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
you've failed to offer ANY real proof that it didn't occur. You've been reduced to creating scenarios which at the end of the day really don't matter because you have failed to provide any real refutation to the numerous and plainly clear statements that show that the crucifixion happened.
"It’s not really Muslims who face arguments by the corruption :)"
I disagree. But that's another point. Unless you can bring anything of real substance to the table, this point is concluded and proven.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/4
The test was JUST an example, I believe when I matched the example with Jesus I said he has to pass the “HORRIBLE CRUSIFXION”
And it totally matches Jesus! Jesus came for a purpose which is to save mankind, then it’s SO NOT logic him asking God to not give him that purpose!
You haven’t answered ALL MY QUESTIONS about being Fully human, and fully God! You said you’re going to leave it until the end, so don’t come and mention that every time when you didn’t even explain it!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "The test was JUST an example,"
Yes. Exactly. And no amount of examples will help you prove that the crucifixion never occurred. As I've stated, the point is proven. You've got nothing new to offer on this. Any number of examples will never change the fact that Jesus (Willingly, unwillingly, happily, unhappily, NO MATTER!) was crucified.
THAT was the FIRST argument that you presented. ISLAM states Jesus was never crucified and the simple fact of the matter is that he was.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/4
“I'd really prefer another route to saving mankind”
This is an excuse you made up, there is no such thing, All I see he is praying to God REPEATEDLY to SAVE him crucifixion, and that is it, Bring me a single scripture where he asks to SUBSTITUTE the crucifixion with another way?
“state he agreement with the plan”
YES he did agree but just for the Father will, not to save us :) otherwise he wouldn’t pray to avoid crucifixion when he knows if that happened we will all go to hell!!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "This is an excuse you made up, there is no such thing, All I see he is praying to God REPEATEDLY to SAVE him crucifixion"
Actually, he prayed ONCE specifically, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me."
The "Cup" is the "task" presented to Jesus. He prays, "If it is POSSIBLE for THIS TASK to be taken from me let it be so. IF it is NOT possible to take this task from me, then YOUR WILL BE DONE."
Now, YOU would have to argue that Jesus wanted everyone(cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
to go to hell. However, you would find no such support anywhere in scripture with this notion. Jesus simply told God, IF IT IS POSSIBLE that this task be taken from me then let it be. If the event never occurred it would not mean that all people are condemned to hell. That is YOUR insertion again. If Jesus had not become the perfect sacrifice for sin that perfectly atones for sin, then we would still be sacrificing animals in accord with the law.
jorsak 7 months ago
@missgaga555 "otherwise he wouldn’t pray to avoid crucifixion when he knows if that happened we will all go to hell!!"
False. Everyone prior to Jesus was bound by the law and sacrificed animals to atone for their sins. Thus, the righteous Jews sacrificed in the temple and were saved from God's wrath. Jesus' death on the cross became the PERFECT sacrifice and thus it is not needed to be repeated.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
3/4
"Was Jesus crucified?"
“both crucified, died, and physically resurrected.”
AGAIN YOU HAVEN’T answered my earlier question about this point, do you see now why I asked you to answer before we go further!
According to Luke 24: 36-43, he proves that he has a physical body, when he supposed to be “resurrected” and be in a (spiritual body)and that’s taken from his OWN TEACHINGS that the resurrected bodies are spiritual NOT physical,how that happened?
The crusifxion itself is denied
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555
I stated, 'both crucified, died, and physically resurrected.”
You replied, "AGAIN YOU HAVEN’T answered my earlier question about this point, do you see now why I asked you to answer before we go further!"
And if you cannot see the logic behind keeping to ONE point and that one point STILL taking on average 7 posts to discuss each turn, then you are seriously lacking in good judgement.
At this point, the argument is solidly proven that he was crucified. You've offered (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
nothing new and nothing that refutes the clear numerous volume of verses from Jesus' own mouth stating he came to die, specifically by crucifixion, and would rise from the dead. Any number of "examples" about tests or otherwise matters not at all because at the end of the day, Jesus clearly states that he would be crucified in agreement with prophecy, the law, and the Father's will.
There is NO contradiction in stating that Jesus wanted the cup to pass him by when the law requires (Cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
sacrifice. What do you think had been happening for the previous several thousand years? God gave the Jews the law which required sacrifices for sins and that's exactly what righteous Jews had done.
IF the cup had passed Jesus by, then the law would still be in place and sacrificing animals would be required for the atonement of sin. Once AGAIN, you are trying to create contradictions where there are none because of YOUR lack of knowledge in the scriptures. I do not blame you for (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
for that lack of knowledge as these are not your texts to know and understand but it would be nice if you ASKED for clarity on a point when you failed to understand it rather than your immediate typical Muslim response of shouting about supposed contradictions where none exist.
The point is proven. Jesus was crucified. Acknowledge that and we can move on to the next points.
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
"Jesus was crucified. Acknowledge that and we can move on to the next points."
That's so funny! so you want me to believe Jesus was crucified in order for you to answer my questions?
it sounds that you left the main topic, and you're discussing my long comments!
How can I Acknowledge it when I posted you a question about it and YOU NEVER REPLUIED IT BACK! I swear I post it like 3 times! this is becoming a waste of time, Luke 24: 36-43 JUST NSWER IT!
I believe you know the question
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 Let me QUOTE myself from over a WEEK AGO:
Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead. He challenged the disciples to look at and touch his hands and his feet which had the nail holes present (proving HE personally was CRUCIFIED - John 20:25-27).
Had you read further you would have found that Jesus explains that the Messiah MUST DIE and rise from the dead. (Luke 24:46)
Let's go ahead and READ EXACTLY what Jesus had to say.
(Cont)
jorsak 7 months ago
“44 This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and RISE FROM THE DEAD on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Proving, once again, that he (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
PHYSICALLY DIED and that according to the law and in the fulfillment of the prophets HE PHYSICALLY ROSE FROM THE DEAD; explained BY HIS OWN MOUTH.
Once again... this was answered over a week ago. Nothing new to refute what has already been proven. Accept the fact that the crucifixion is undeniable and we will move on to the remainder of your questions.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
1/2
And I'll also quote myself WEEK AGO!
"Luke 24:36-43 proves that Jesus PHYSICALLY rose from the dead"
Thanks :) that’s what I’m saying!
Jesus teachings say that the resurrected bodies are spiritual NOT PHYSICAL Luke 20:36, so he can’t be resurrected PHYSICALLY :) He was simply proving that he is not resurrected according to his own teachings!
I’m not asking you for scriptures about the resurrection, I’m asking you about this specific verse that Contradicts!
missgaga555 7 months ago
@jorsak
2/2
So to make everything clear hoping that I’ll get a clear answer as well, the question is: How come Jesus proves that he is in a physical body when “supposedly” he was resurrected, when the resurrected bodies CAN’T BE PHYSICAL BUT SPRITUAL ACCORDING TO HIS OWN TEACHINGS?
missgaga555 7 months ago
@missgaga555 Please show me in this passage you referenced where it says #1. The resurrection is spiritual and #2. where it says that there is never a physical resurrection:
"36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."
Never do you see Jesus stating that the resurrection is spiritual alone. In fact it is well known to Christians that the resurrection will reunite our spirit with a new and glorified(cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
body. As it is recorded in 1 Corinthians 15, "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."
The word used here in the Greek is Soma which means physical. The BODY is raised imperishable. Thus, the resurrection is PHYSICAL as well as spiritual.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak
1/2
Thanks! you quoted it for me:
“36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.”
Be reasonable! so when Jesus PBUH said we will be like angels, he meant that we will have physical bodies?
He didn’t say you’ll be resurrected physically and spiritually, he just said: ANGELS>> I wonder do angles have physical bodies? Do we see them flying in the sky? Can we touch them? Pleeeeease answer :)
He was able to be touched, seen, and heard, so was he anything like angles??
missgaga555 6 months ago
@missgaga555 "He didn’t say you’ll be resurrected physically and spiritually." Actually, he and the prophets have said that the resurrection is a physical resurection from the beginning of time and the scriptures.
IE. The great prophet Isaiah, "Is. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my DEAD BODY shall they arise."
And as I have already made perfectly clear, Jesus SPECIFICALLY stated FROM HIS OWN MOUTH regarding the Messiah in this VERY SAME CHAPTER (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
"44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, THAT THE CHRIST would suffer and RISE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD on the third day,"
Jesus made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that the scriptures SPOKE OF HIM and that HE must SUFFER and DIE and (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
RISE FROM THE DEAD!!!!!! Why is that so darn hard for you to admit? Why indeed! Because the lie of Islam has taught you that he did not suffer, die, and RISE FROM THE DEAD as he stated he would from his own mouth.
Plain, simple, clear.
And yes angels have a physical body. How many times in scripture do angels appear in physical shape even EATING with people (Genesis 18, etc.)
Jesus stated his resurrection would be PHYSICAL. Paul agreed as I provided quotes form his writings.
(cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
And I repeat, 1 Corinthians 15, "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable; "
THE BODY IS RAISED. Paul. No disagreement. Because God SPOKE to Paul as merely a voice has NOTHIGN to do with Paul disagreeing with a physical resurrection as I have already demonstrated Paul believes in an PREACHES Jesus' physical resurrection.
Once again, it's you attempting to create a contradiction where none exists.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak
1/3
One question: Have you read my comments? again for the thousand time I’m not asking you to quote me scriptures that talk about resurrection (I'm NOT denying them), I’m asking you to EXPLAIN about theses specific scriptures that contradicts! my question was VERY CLEAR:
Jesus said we will be resurrected as angles, did he look anything like angels? (ANSWER THIS QUESTIN)
I’ll make the answer easier for you>> Are angles something physical that we can touch and see?
missgaga555 6 months ago
@missgaga555 You ask, "One question: Have you read my comments"
And to this I must reply as I have before: HAVE YOU READ MY ANSWERS!!!???!!!! Just as before when you complained that I had not answered and all I had to do was COPY AND PASTE my response, NOW I can do the same. PLEASE, I BEG YOU, quit complaining about the scriptures being posted long enough to actually READ THEM as they are the ANSWER to your question. (Cont.)
"36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.
jorsak 6 months ago
You do not need MY explanation or my examples when the scriptures from God's mouth himself answer you questions. What does my opinion matter anyway?
Your first question, "Jesus said we will be resurrected as angles, did he look anything like angels? "
Please... READ the verse. "and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."
WHERE in that verse do you EVER see ANYTHING about LOOKING like an Angel?!?!? (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
The verse is SELF EXPLANATORY! HOW are they LIKE angels? "and they can no longer die"
BECAUSE they are children of God they are LIKE ANGELS which CAN NEVER DIE. The verse has NOTHING to do with LOOKING like an angel. It has EVERYTHING To do with their state of eternal nature. That is why you find Jesus saying things like, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28).
And in COMPLETE agreement with Jesus (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
Paul tells you that our old bodies which are dying and corrupted by sin will be resurrected (PHYSICALLY!) in a perfected and glorified state (LIKE ANGELS!) "42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, IT IS RAISED imperishable;" (1 Cor. 15) and just the same the prophets AGREED WITH PAUL AND JESUS when they said, "Is. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my DEAD BODY shall they arise."
The resurrection IS PHYSICAL. (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
The prophets taught it, Paul taught it, Jesus stated it from his own darn mouth!
If you weren't so obsessed with CREATING conflicts were none exist, you'd have seen that every question you asked in your last round of posts has already been answered.
And as I had ALSO already told you, when Jesus speaks to Paul on the road to Damascus, though Paul only HEARS a voice, what does this have to do AT ALL with Jesus' resurrection from the dead? Jesus had long since ascended to heaven. (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
His role as Messiah had long since been fulfilled (suffering, dying and rising from the dead on the third day.) There is no need for Jesus to appear physically to Paul. As God had called on Noah by his voice and as he had spoke from the flames with moses, so too Jesus spoke to Paul in his calling to serve him.
Please tell ME how THAT means that Paul, who consistently taught the PHYSICAL RESURRECTION of Jesus somehow means he is teaching that Jesus did not physically resurrect?
(Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago