why do so many of these killers take their own lives in the end? they go around killing all those innocent people only to take the cowards way out when theyre done
@DavidM4725@DavidM4725 They probably realize there is no explaining their way out of their actions and the following reprecuassions. As for killing others, probably curiousity, they probably suspect that they will kill themselves already anyway so 'lets see what killing is really like!'
110% thurrally earned that comendation he went well above and beyond the call of duty and saved the lives of several people i have the utmost respect for the soilder.
Now the only ppl with guns in the UK are criminals and the establishment police criminals (Jean Charles DeMendez) The average person has no means of self defence and nothing goes to show more clearly than this documentary that the police are not here to protect us, first it was Hungerford to outlaw semi automatic weapons and then it was Dunblane to ban hand guns, It makes me suspicious about government agendas and think there would have been less deaths if others had arms available to them.
Low life, any person who kills their family, others than themselves are wicked and low. It makes me wonder, were they never taught respect for life? No values? Fear? How were they brought up? Selfish brat is my conclusion.
Bravery? (controversial comment here...) The police, ambulances and fire engines just sat there... Everyone else just sat in their homes, and the soldier that followed Ryan around for what 50 minutes couldn't do anything because he wasn't armed.... What a cowardly response from all the emergency services concerned... and then they try to reason with Ryan? Just shoot the nutter, what sort of reasoning could they have come to with someone as messed up as him?
And write to your MP aswell, requesting a reform in firearm legislation. Or wrote to the prime minister himself. We need to spread our message, that law abiding citizens shouldn't be restricted by draconian gun laws. As the saying goes, you can't sweep a whole room with one flick of the brush.
It took one asshole in British history to outlaw semi automatic rifles and nearly all handguns. As mentioned in this section of the programme, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Criminals will always have access to guns, politicians have disarmed YOU, not criminals. Please, everyone who supports gun ownership to law abiding citizens, thumbs up this comment.
Too many sheep, not enough sheepdogs. Like several have stated, If Carl had been armed, or if anyone else for that matter it could have been stopped a lot sooner. Mad men will always have access to guns, gun laws only hurt the law abiding citizens.
Kudos to the beautiful lady at 06:50. She tells it like it is. Guns don't kill people. people kill people. An evildoer will always get his hands on a firearm, regardless of how draconian a gun law in place is.
@Karamojo7mm Guns do help though. If he only had a knife, he probably wouldnt have killed as many people. But, you are right, persistant people will get thier hands on firearms.
The gun laws in Australia were changed after the Port Arthur massacre. There is no reason for anyone (civilians that is) to own a hand gun, semi automatic or automatic weapon.
We hear of all these people who commit these crimes having access to guns, paricular hand guns, and some if everyone had them the world would be a safer place. But NEVER have I seen where a armed CITIZEN has taken over a foiled robbery of murder attemped and saved the day. These gun only kill. I own handguns myself, but would give them up. 'Satisticts show you are more likely to die by a gun if you own a gun - what can be more telling??????
If only that soldier had a weapon to take that fucker out it would have been half the devestation and half the grief.
If the Cumbrian Police were equiped with firearms then they could have killed that fat guy when they confronted him instead of letting him drive off and kill random people.
Respect to all those who lost their lives and loved ones in these tragedies.
@terry0075 I was just going to comment on that myself! I think many people will be revisiting this documentary to discover the similarities with yesterday’s events. Unfortunately the chap on the video was right but thank god it's not a regular occurrence unlike other countries with more liberal gun legislation.
@sportmonday yes i totally agree to gun control's in europe are a lot stricter then america for example where it is written in their constitution that says they have a rite to bear arms. R.I.P. to all the people who died yesterday but these massacres do not happen on a regular basis thank god.
@terry0075 yesterdays massacres was so close to my uni and the scariest thing was the perpetrator - not a loner gun fanatic - but grandad, locally known and had friends and children..... i hate to say this but i cant wait for a dicumentary on him for just..... an explanation u know?
@terry0075 yesterdays massacres was so close to my uni and the scariest thing was the perpetrator - not a loner gun fanatic - but grandad, locally known and had friends and children..... i hate to say this but i cant wait for a dicumentary on him for just..... an explanation u know?
I don't agree with the machine gun ban, but I don't really think anyone NEEDS one for security in the same way you might a handgun or shotgun. You would only need one if you were going to get 100 people invading your house, a handgun or shotgun will easily lay waste any attacker.
Also you can own them if you have an exemption, even now.
This is sad, imagine if hero Carl Harris had been packing an MP5 or even a simple 357 magnum revolver. He would have had 2 chances to clearly take this son of a bitch out.
i feel sorry for michael ryan's victims. god bless their souls. he needed help. i know because he was the victim of bullying. i have been one myself and i took a different rpute. i am also a military historian and enthusiast. men like him ruin it for decent people.
this is horrific it truelly was and whats worse is that it happened again in Dunblane 10 years later. Lets hope that nothing like this never happens again
Fuck the politics, michael fuckface fucking killed 16 and injured about a dozen or more so who gives a shit about the poiltics. He did what he did theres nothing political about that. RIP the dead except that cunt.
They showed an AK-47 but he used an M-1 Carbine which is why anyone lived at all. The M-1 carbine was a ww2 era short rifle(thusly the"carbine") and had he used the AK-47 no vehicle could have driven away.
He did use an AK for the vast majority of it. He had an M1 with him when he went to the petrol station but it jammed there and he didn't try to use it again
In my state gun crime is almost unheard of. Guns are easily purchased following an FBI background check. In the neighboring state where guns are hard to obtain, gun crime is ridiculously high and in fact done right in the down town inner cities right in front of eye witnesses who don't dare speak.
The whole massacre proves the point why fire arms are needed. What would you like to defend yourself with against an armed attacker. Let me guess, you will wait for the police. Do you honestly think they can be everywhere and anywhere at once. Criminals will always have access to fire arms. I would rather live on my feet than die on my knees. It is also worth noting that since the weapons ban in the UK, firearms related crime has not gone away.
Why don't we start a national shooting forum like the NRA that can voice the opinion of gun owners. I think its appalling that legal law abiding UK citizens cannot legally own fire arms. The statistics prove that UK gun control has not stopped gun crime. Criminals will always find weapons and we have to sit around like sheep to the slaughter. To think that Michael Robert Ryan went unopposed shooting people for 3 hours. An armed civilian could have stopped the body count from growing.
Oh we can own firearms,just its been made so difficult to get a licence,when you do get a licence,the choice of gun is VERY limited,only .22lr semi auto rifles,no full bore semi auto rifles,no handguns,shotguns with restricted mag on a ahotgun cert or a big mag an firearms cert. The cost is enormous and you have to convince the police you have the need for a rifle,shooting for hobby/pleasure doesnt seem to come into the equation,madness.
Fire arms here to fore unheard of in private hands when this type was legal are now showing up. California banned many types of semi automatics and yet the gang bangers have fully automatic and the semi automatics which is to say:"When guns are outlawed-only outlaws will have guns!" By God how true. Washington,DC banned fire arms -a perfect place for those two serial killers in their car!
16 deaths and a complete devastation for the familys just cos one insane fuck wanted to play with his guns and have a real session of gta. selfish prick
If England is so safe, then why do more Police routinely carry guns? Good people should have a right to own and bear arms, just like our American cousins. Gun control only ever benefits the bad people of this World.
same as the dunblane massacre its not the guns faults he could have killed the people with an axe or a shovel or anything you an imagine can kill a person i dont condone what he did and people like that are not fit to own a gun but the laws are now pathetic and if more people had guns he probebly would not have killed as many people as he did i own several guns shotguns,hand guns and rifles and id have no quarells on shooting any 1 in this situation
My point was that (unless I'm wrong), this guy had his weapons legally. I was under the impression that none of his weapons were fully auto?
If he could legally own such stuff at the time, then so could anybody else. The majority of Brits, however, have no interest in owning such hardware.
If gun laws are relaxed again, then there is a clear argument that everybody should be armed for their own safety... and I know most decent people really don't want that to be the case.
Its not straighforward. Although not widely reported at the time (or now), I believe Ryan actually had lost his Firearms Certificate(FAC) but the police had failed to remove the guns. Yes other people in Hungerford could of had an FAC and owned certain firearms, However, using them for self defence was secretly phased in the late 50's. The reality of our then very strict laws and the onerous conditions attached to an FAC meant that gun ownership had been dying off for many years.
A guy goes on a massacre with a several firearms and all the police do is seal the town off and leave him to get on with murdering unarmed people?!?! A massive 3 hours later the gunman corners himself in a school.
Seriously people, are we a bunch of mindless morons for trusting the state to protect us?
This is a very sad story. And as in every massacre there is a mad man behind it. As a result of this the gun laws have been made tighter.
Even when handguns were banned, only around 3,000 of the 100,000 believed to have been in private hands before May 2004 have been handed in for destruction. The other 97,000 have disappeared.
After the Hungerford massacre, public outcry was such that new gun laws came in and were tightened still further after the Dunblane incident. These two incidents are the only two of their type in the UK. Nothing comparable has happened since. In the US, where these incidents are far more frequent, there is *still* huge resistance to gun control!
I wonder what Ryan was originally planning. He only went on foot through Hungerford after his car wouldn't start. To where was he going to drive?
'Nothing comparable has happened since'. That is true however AK-47s are still available to people and the UK rate of of crimes in which guns or violence is/are used to attack/rob people has gone up significantly. As the man said 'it could happen again tomorrow', the law has not done what it set out to do. The people of the US understand that the only proper response to 'bad guys' with guns is to shoot back no one in Hungerford was able to shoot back, if they had been it would have ended quickly
So the only people who have guns now are the one's who want to hurt people. AK47s are still available to people so are handguns. Gun laws don't stop people from getting hold of guns. It's like saying no one can get hold of illegal drugs just because they don't sell them in chemists. The fact is guns are more available now than ever and 'gun' crime has gone up since the ban. I'm confused as to what actual effect you think these laws have had.
That's not quite what I'm getting at. I wanted to say that he had his weapons legally- so anyone else in Hungerford at the time could also have had such hardware.
Now.. make guns more generally available, and I, for example, will have to get one, because I live in a dangerous area. I don't want to have to carry a gun for self defence, and I don't think the sort of people that will go out and buy them immediately should have them. The threat of being stabbed here is bad enough.
Don't get me wrong, I don't fault your logic, but if guns become more mainstream, we'll raise the bar for everyone.
At the moment, very few people in this country face the danger of being shot. Very few people have to worry about it. Guns are used for serious violent and organised crime, not to settle petty disputes outside pubs.
As I said in my other post, I don't want to be forced to carry a gun just because ever other person on the local council estate goes out and gets one from Argos.
Furrowbrow: My view on all this is the people who want weapons already have access to them. Crims won't carry more guns because they're legal the law means little to them. What are your feelings about things like Pepper Spray, batons or Stun-Guns?
..and I agree with you. It's still mostly the teritory of hardened criminals, though.
I just don't think it's that black and white, though- if you could buy guns in Argos,
the first people who would go and buy them would be the same kind of people that buy dangerous dogs as a status symbol. Idiots who like to get pissed up on Friday night and knock people out for fun.
When those lot have them, then the rest of us will have no choice, and the risk of having your nose broken of an evening will become the risk of being killed or becoming a murderer.
We already have an overly violent, aggressive, and drunken element to our society. Throwing guns in to the mix would scare the shit out of me.
I don't object to non-lethal defense hardware. I can cope with bruised pride far better than a bullet to the head.
Would you prefer non-lethal self-defence 'hardware' were legal? As for your view that legal guns would further complicate already dangerous scenarios, I disagree. Wepons are expensive brand new, people won't buy them at the drop of a hat. Also, the people you describe already have access to weapons if they want knives or guns they can just buy them now. The obviously just don't want them. To see what kind of weapons that are available go to the 'CO19 4of6' and watch from about 05:35.
On the price issue, I've often come in to contact with people who would rather spend £2000 on a new TV than maintain their own children properly. As such, they are almost more accessible to these people.
To simplify it, say that there are three types of people. The type that will carry weapons regardless, the type that would get a gun if it was legal and the rest of us.
The first camp are bad news, the second are apt to be no strangers to violence, and the last are going to get it in the neck.
It all comes down to your view of how people will behave, and our views on that will inevitably differ.
As I said, I live in an extremely violent town (where I am not aware of any shootings in my lifetime), and I don't want the local thugs armed. You may trust the asbo-benefit generation to behave responsibly, but I don't.
I know it works in Finland, Switzerland, and the US, but the UK is totally different culturally and socially.
@flashmp i pretty much love around responsible gun owners in the UK and go shooting regularly but the thought of some of the dick heads who i used to go school with being able to purchase a gun with no problem at all scares the shit out of me. Guns can just get in the hands of assholes no problem if they lightened up the law like what happens in the US
@flashmp dumblane massacre and the london shooting are comparable, and that is only in the UK areas. usa has had several, finland had 2 more, even canada had one comparable at polytechnic where 15 were killed and i am sure there are a few more massacres comparable around the world.
i heard about this event happening, when i was driving home from essex an we went thru hungerford, so i thought it might watch it to see what actually went on, great documentary, enjoyed every bit of it, i like watching the ci channel, have some great things on there, when was this on?
the Princess Margaret Hopsital was in Swindon and not Windsor as mentioned in the documentary, many thanks for the posting it was the first time I had seen this prog, it was very well made and was interesting to find out details I was unaware of for 21 years , my father was killed and my mother injured in this massacre . It was a terrible day for all those concerned , and one we shall never recover from.
thanks you , my father really didnt know anything , my mother lived a further 16 years and had to live with the scars both physical and emotional of the nightmare she endured , there are many survivors still living some of whom still have bulltets in their bodies .
whilst the uk along with many other rcounries has a major gun problem , the strict gun controls we now have, have
prevented another massacre on the scale of Dunblane and Hungerford where the shooters honed their marksmanship skills as members of legitimate licensed gun clubs .
You are unlkely to have this right. The root cause of our violence in the UK is likely to be an unarmed and defencless citizenry. Do we really expect criminals not to take advantage?
Strict gun laws usually preceed more violence in a society, not less. When we had zero gun laws we suffered very little gun crime, today in our officially disarmed society it has gotten worse and worse.
Look up what happened in Jamaica, DC and UK after gun bans were put into place.
i would want to get rid of these gun laws in the uk but i accept it would INCREASE crime.
both dunblane and hungerford were commited by people using completely legal weapons with licenses and could have been possibly avoided if they had been outlawed then.
the uk also has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world now so your point is invalid
Colour749, gun crime is higher now than before the ban so your point is invalid and probably laughable.
Change the record. While your at it perhaps you'd care to pint out one place in the world where gun control has reduced gun crime? It can be at anytime in history in any country in the world.
No hurry, but when you have the data please feel free to email me.
i dono if ur from the uk or not but most of the serious crimes to do with guns such as massacres were commited by people who legally owned them here and in the usa crime with assault weapons decreased after the federal assault weapons ban for instance
I am from the UK and your wrong about crime rates before and after the assaults weapons ban in the US. In fact the term assault weapon is highly misleading in a US civilian context - no different to any dear hunting rifle. You knew that though, right?
Gun crime is higher in the UK post ban. so your comment is invalid.
"Gun crime" is irrelevant. There would be no increase in murders if the laws were repealed - there would no doubt be more committed with guns, but that won't make any difference; a murder is a murder and guns don't make you any deader than any other means.
And the state should not be jailing people for possession of any tool.
so a crazed man with a gun cant kill more people then a crazed man with no gun.
if i wanted to kill and had no previous convictions and bought a gun i could kill dozens of people if i didn't maybe it would just be one person before i was caught.
Owning a gun makes killing the crazed man a lot easier, too. As a previous commenter noted- if someone else had a gun, Ryan would have probably been dropped before his second or third victim.
I live in Swindon and visit Hungerford every month. It is such a beautiful town, but every time I go there I think of those people who were killed on that day. RIP.
why do so many of these killers take their own lives in the end? they go around killing all those innocent people only to take the cowards way out when theyre done
DavidM4725 3 weeks ago in playlist A&E Biography
@DavidM4725 @DavidM4725 They probably realize there is no explaining their way out of their actions and the following reprecuassions. As for killing others, probably curiousity, they probably suspect that they will kill themselves already anyway so 'lets see what killing is really like!'
brendaeileen 2 weeks ago
I feel sad that society makes people like that :(
gazlyno 3 weeks ago
I feel sad that society makes people like that :(
gazlyno 3 weeks ago
110% thurrally earned that comendation he went well above and beyond the call of duty and saved the lives of several people i have the utmost respect for the soilder.
captianmorgen 2 months ago
Now the only ppl with guns in the UK are criminals and the establishment police criminals (Jean Charles DeMendez) The average person has no means of self defence and nothing goes to show more clearly than this documentary that the police are not here to protect us, first it was Hungerford to outlaw semi automatic weapons and then it was Dunblane to ban hand guns, It makes me suspicious about government agendas and think there would have been less deaths if others had arms available to them.
newworldodour 2 months ago 2
Low life, any person who kills their family, others than themselves are wicked and low. It makes me wonder, were they never taught respect for life? No values? Fear? How were they brought up? Selfish brat is my conclusion.
1PartAngel 3 months ago
Could that guy take any longer to get a sentence out!
mcfcduff1 3 months ago
Bravery? (controversial comment here...) The police, ambulances and fire engines just sat there... Everyone else just sat in their homes, and the soldier that followed Ryan around for what 50 minutes couldn't do anything because he wasn't armed.... What a cowardly response from all the emergency services concerned... and then they try to reason with Ryan? Just shoot the nutter, what sort of reasoning could they have come to with someone as messed up as him?
P1LGY 3 months ago
And write to your MP aswell, requesting a reform in firearm legislation. Or wrote to the prime minister himself. We need to spread our message, that law abiding citizens shouldn't be restricted by draconian gun laws. As the saying goes, you can't sweep a whole room with one flick of the brush.
ryanbinrichard 6 months ago
@ryanbinrichard first we need to destroy Islam in the uk
traceradam 6 months ago
It took one asshole in British history to outlaw semi automatic rifles and nearly all handguns. As mentioned in this section of the programme, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Criminals will always have access to guns, politicians have disarmed YOU, not criminals. Please, everyone who supports gun ownership to law abiding citizens, thumbs up this comment.
ryanbinrichard 6 months ago
I still live here, nothing has changed.
AlexJGuitarnut 6 months ago
Too many sheep, not enough sheepdogs. Like several have stated, If Carl had been armed, or if anyone else for that matter it could have been stopped a lot sooner. Mad men will always have access to guns, gun laws only hurt the law abiding citizens.
ole88bluegmc 6 months ago
the whole, no murders in 111 years, dispute this incident, makes me want to live there.
Greenwolfdragon 8 months ago
Carl Harris Rocks...
cranberry411 8 months ago
Asking about his poor mum! You shot her you bloody idiot! Bit late for the concern now! Jeez, what a sick twat.
Caroline0272 8 months ago
@Caroline0272 I was thinking the same....
black4pienus 8 months ago
wow 111 years without a murder..kudos
AmberTrystan 9 months ago 2
Just say his mom isn't dead ...they should have lied to him
AmberTrystan 9 months ago
Kudos to the beautiful lady at 06:50. She tells it like it is. Guns don't kill people. people kill people. An evildoer will always get his hands on a firearm, regardless of how draconian a gun law in place is.
Karamojo7mm 9 months ago
@Karamojo7mm Guns do help though. If he only had a knife, he probably wouldnt have killed as many people. But, you are right, persistant people will get thier hands on firearms.
Greenwolfdragon 8 months ago
The gun laws in Australia were changed after the Port Arthur massacre. There is no reason for anyone (civilians that is) to own a hand gun, semi automatic or automatic weapon.
Katw76 11 months ago
Now THAT'S a hero
crazycatlady68 11 months ago
"Oh! Don't worry, he's only in the school..." - I sure pray it was saturday...
PhantomLyric 1 year ago
@PhantomLyric In part 1 Alison Chapman said "It was a sunny day in August. School holidays". This means no one was at the school.
Jerseybytes2 9 months ago
@Jerseybytes2 oh lol
PhantomLyric 9 months ago
I didnt think you could buy guns in england. Or was that after this happend?????
xmissxbeckyxfryx 1 year ago
Armed Criminals willing to shoot people VS UnArmed Public hmm good one lol
toxic2k7 1 year ago
I accidentally "disliked" this video. Sorry.
KawaiiKao 1 year ago
We hear of all these people who commit these crimes having access to guns, paricular hand guns, and some if everyone had them the world would be a safer place. But NEVER have I seen where a armed CITIZEN has taken over a foiled robbery of murder attemped and saved the day. These gun only kill. I own handguns myself, but would give them up. 'Satisticts show you are more likely to die by a gun if you own a gun - what can be more telling??????
sdmagn 1 year ago
If only that soldier had a weapon to take that fucker out it would have been half the devestation and half the grief.
If the Cumbrian Police were equiped with firearms then they could have killed that fat guy when they confronted him instead of letting him drive off and kill random people.
Respect to all those who lost their lives and loved ones in these tragedies.
burnzgotshot 1 year ago
Comment removed
sportmonday 1 year ago
its sounds so chilling at what he says at 7:04 as what happened in the uk on 2/6/2010
terry0075 1 year ago
@terry0075 I was just going to comment on that myself! I think many people will be revisiting this documentary to discover the similarities with yesterday’s events. Unfortunately the chap on the video was right but thank god it's not a regular occurrence unlike other countries with more liberal gun legislation.
sportmonday 1 year ago
@sportmonday yes i totally agree to gun control's in europe are a lot stricter then america for example where it is written in their constitution that says they have a rite to bear arms. R.I.P. to all the people who died yesterday but these massacres do not happen on a regular basis thank god.
terry0075 1 year ago
@terry0075 yesterdays massacres was so close to my uni and the scariest thing was the perpetrator - not a loner gun fanatic - but grandad, locally known and had friends and children..... i hate to say this but i cant wait for a dicumentary on him for just..... an explanation u know?
BodomChildBreeder 1 year ago
@terry0075 yesterdays massacres was so close to my uni and the scariest thing was the perpetrator - not a loner gun fanatic - but grandad, locally known and had friends and children..... i hate to say this but i cant wait for a dicumentary on him for just..... an explanation u know?
BodomChildBreeder 1 year ago
I don't agree with the machine gun ban, but I don't really think anyone NEEDS one for security in the same way you might a handgun or shotgun. You would only need one if you were going to get 100 people invading your house, a handgun or shotgun will easily lay waste any attacker.
Also you can own them if you have an exemption, even now.
theporksicle 1 year ago
This is sad, imagine if hero Carl Harris had been packing an MP5 or even a simple 357 magnum revolver. He would have had 2 chances to clearly take this son of a bitch out.
aurolacul 1 year ago
Many Thanks for this upload, I remember this tragedy very well!
MosaicMaiden 1 year ago
karl harris looks like christian bale in T4 salvation
david28175 1 year ago
Just my thought but he was dressed like a MACVSOG
kook2222 1 year ago
What's a MACVSOG?
kingsman565 1 year ago
@kingsman565 (Military Assistance Command, Vietnam - Studies and Observation Group) Special forces who were watching everything. CIA Bloodhounds.
kook2222 1 year ago
I see, are you trying to say he's a mind control agent or something?
kingsman565 1 year ago
You're Joking right??
kook2222 1 year ago
i feel sorry for michael ryan's victims. god bless their souls. he needed help. i know because he was the victim of bullying. i have been one myself and i took a different rpute. i am also a military historian and enthusiast. men like him ruin it for decent people.
m16a1rifle 2 years ago
It's a shame the policeman who conversed with Ryan at the school didn't ask him why he did it-or what drove him to it that day.
He probably didn't know himself.
MALCBAGGIE 2 years ago
this is horrific it truelly was and whats worse is that it happened again in Dunblane 10 years later. Lets hope that nothing like this never happens again
midgiemarsh 2 years ago
Fuck the politics, michael fuckface fucking killed 16 and injured about a dozen or more so who gives a shit about the poiltics. He did what he did theres nothing political about that. RIP the dead except that cunt.
Jayme501 2 years ago
They showed an AK-47 but he used an M-1 Carbine which is why anyone lived at all. The M-1 carbine was a ww2 era short rifle(thusly the"carbine") and had he used the AK-47 no vehicle could have driven away.
erwintommy 2 years ago
@erwintommy
He did use an AK for the vast majority of it. He had an M1 with him when he went to the petrol station but it jammed there and he didn't try to use it again
MKPSG12 2 years ago
i was suprised by the unbiased ending,
I was expecting them to praise the current gun laws and only 1 of the 3 said yes.
wolfyys 2 years ago 2
In my state gun crime is almost unheard of. Guns are easily purchased following an FBI background check. In the neighboring state where guns are hard to obtain, gun crime is ridiculously high and in fact done right in the down town inner cities right in front of eye witnesses who don't dare speak.
erwintommy 2 years ago 3
The whole massacre proves the point why fire arms are needed. What would you like to defend yourself with against an armed attacker. Let me guess, you will wait for the police. Do you honestly think they can be everywhere and anywhere at once. Criminals will always have access to fire arms. I would rather live on my feet than die on my knees. It is also worth noting that since the weapons ban in the UK, firearms related crime has not gone away.
ZS6JMP 2 years ago
Why don't we start a national shooting forum like the NRA that can voice the opinion of gun owners. I think its appalling that legal law abiding UK citizens cannot legally own fire arms. The statistics prove that UK gun control has not stopped gun crime. Criminals will always find weapons and we have to sit around like sheep to the slaughter. To think that Michael Robert Ryan went unopposed shooting people for 3 hours. An armed civilian could have stopped the body count from growing.
ZS6JMP 2 years ago
Why is it appalling!? What do people get out of shooting targets? Honestly. It's pathetic. There is no defence for it.
woodywefc 2 years ago
Oh we can own firearms,just its been made so difficult to get a licence,when you do get a licence,the choice of gun is VERY limited,only .22lr semi auto rifles,no full bore semi auto rifles,no handguns,shotguns with restricted mag on a ahotgun cert or a big mag an firearms cert. The cost is enormous and you have to convince the police you have the need for a rifle,shooting for hobby/pleasure doesnt seem to come into the equation,madness.
silver760 2 years ago 2
Fire arms here to fore unheard of in private hands when this type was legal are now showing up. California banned many types of semi automatics and yet the gang bangers have fully automatic and the semi automatics which is to say:"When guns are outlawed-only outlaws will have guns!" By God how true. Washington,DC banned fire arms -a perfect place for those two serial killers in their car!
erwintommy 2 years ago 2
16 deaths and a complete devastation for the familys just cos one insane fuck wanted to play with his guns and have a real session of gta. selfish prick
mexicodriver 2 years ago 2
if it hadnt been for his dodgy car.
cdwordsworth26 2 years ago
stupid prick changed gunlaw for the whole country
Rot in hell you insane fuck
sweetypie000 2 years ago 11
GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE, RAPPERS DO.
oh yeah and Michael Ryan.
leonmcveigh 2 years ago
im a loner, i dont ave a gun , twatty bollock`s!
englishirishgerman 2 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
6:03 - "IVE GOT FRIENDS THAT ARE LONERS"
then they arnt very good loners are they.
A good loner has more guns than friends.
philipgtakken 2 years ago
If England is so safe, then why do more Police routinely carry guns? Good people should have a right to own and bear arms, just like our American cousins. Gun control only ever benefits the bad people of this World.
MaximusVelocity 2 years ago 3
Its a simplistic view to take shane. Consider this; when the US and UK had identical gun laws the US was still 5 times more murderous.
Also, gun ownership has increased massively in the US over the last 20 years and crime rates have been falling. Compare this to the 'disarmed' UK.
Read my comment again and do some research because you evidently know very little about US gun laws and mass public shootings on either continent.
thomascrowne612 2 years ago 23
@thomascrowne612 I agree with you. Plus America has a larger population than the UK so it will have higher murders.
ole88bluegmc 6 months ago
6:50 that is so true what she says
same as the dunblane massacre its not the guns faults he could have killed the people with an axe or a shovel or anything you an imagine can kill a person i dont condone what he did and people like that are not fit to own a gun but the laws are now pathetic and if more people had guns he probebly would not have killed as many people as he did i own several guns shotguns,hand guns and rifles and id have no quarells on shooting any 1 in this situation
jnewton177 2 years ago 3
Hi, Bruce..
My point was that (unless I'm wrong), this guy had his weapons legally. I was under the impression that none of his weapons were fully auto?
If he could legally own such stuff at the time, then so could anybody else. The majority of Brits, however, have no interest in owning such hardware.
If gun laws are relaxed again, then there is a clear argument that everybody should be armed for their own safety... and I know most decent people really don't want that to be the case.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago 2
Hi Furrow,
Its not straighforward. Although not widely reported at the time (or now), I believe Ryan actually had lost his Firearms Certificate(FAC) but the police had failed to remove the guns. Yes other people in Hungerford could of had an FAC and owned certain firearms, However, using them for self defence was secretly phased in the late 50's. The reality of our then very strict laws and the onerous conditions attached to an FAC meant that gun ownership had been dying off for many years.
brucerobert 3 years ago
A guy goes on a massacre with a several firearms and all the police do is seal the town off and leave him to get on with murdering unarmed people?!?! A massive 3 hours later the gunman corners himself in a school.
Seriously people, are we a bunch of mindless morons for trusting the state to protect us?
We need to wake the hell up.
brucerobert 3 years ago 5
Its not as common as your biased media portrays.
As for serial killers......look up a brit called Dr Harold Shipman.
brucerobert 3 years ago
i go to john o' gaunt
blink182ilike 3 years ago
2 of my sas men were killed that day
knifeinator 3 years ago
That was too easy for a evil man like that to go at the end,but any way is better than walking free
Falschimjager 3 years ago
GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE MAD MEN DO!
matt3452 3 years ago 6
This is a very sad story. And as in every massacre there is a mad man behind it. As a result of this the gun laws have been made tighter.
Even when handguns were banned, only around 3,000 of the 100,000 believed to have been in private hands before May 2004 have been handed in for destruction. The other 97,000 have disappeared.
dazco2020 3 years ago
what was this ryans problem anyway? By the way it says he used a ak47 but i heard it was a type 56.
marzipan260 3 years ago
He did use a Type 56. The Type 56 is a Chinese copy of the Kalashnikov AK-47.
LieutenantEadie 3 years ago
After the Hungerford massacre, public outcry was such that new gun laws came in and were tightened still further after the Dunblane incident. These two incidents are the only two of their type in the UK. Nothing comparable has happened since. In the US, where these incidents are far more frequent, there is *still* huge resistance to gun control!
I wonder what Ryan was originally planning. He only went on foot through Hungerford after his car wouldn't start. To where was he going to drive?
owenpetard 3 years ago
'Nothing comparable has happened since'. That is true however AK-47s are still available to people and the UK rate of of crimes in which guns or violence is/are used to attack/rob people has gone up significantly. As the man said 'it could happen again tomorrow', the law has not done what it set out to do. The people of the US understand that the only proper response to 'bad guys' with guns is to shoot back no one in Hungerford was able to shoot back, if they had been it would have ended quickly
flashmp 3 years ago 11
But the gun laws were not in place when the Hungerford massacre took place..
Anybody there could have had an automatic weapon, but nobody did. The only person that had a gun was the person who was interested in shooting people.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
So the only people who have guns now are the one's who want to hurt people. AK47s are still available to people so are handguns. Gun laws don't stop people from getting hold of guns. It's like saying no one can get hold of illegal drugs just because they don't sell them in chemists. The fact is guns are more available now than ever and 'gun' crime has gone up since the ban. I'm confused as to what actual effect you think these laws have had.
flashmp 3 years ago
Hi, flash,
That's not quite what I'm getting at. I wanted to say that he had his weapons legally- so anyone else in Hungerford at the time could also have had such hardware.
Now.. make guns more generally available, and I, for example, will have to get one, because I live in a dangerous area. I don't want to have to carry a gun for self defence, and I don't think the sort of people that will go out and buy them immediately should have them. The threat of being stabbed here is bad enough.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
Furrowbrow, At the time the UK still had some of toughest gun laws in Europe and indeed the world.
Anybody there could of had an automatic weapon? Only criminals could of had a fully auto that day because they have been banned since 1937.
brucerobert 3 years ago 2
Don't get me wrong, I don't fault your logic, but if guns become more mainstream, we'll raise the bar for everyone.
At the moment, very few people in this country face the danger of being shot. Very few people have to worry about it. Guns are used for serious violent and organised crime, not to settle petty disputes outside pubs.
As I said in my other post, I don't want to be forced to carry a gun just because ever other person on the local council estate goes out and gets one from Argos.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
Furrowbrow: My view on all this is the people who want weapons already have access to them. Crims won't carry more guns because they're legal the law means little to them. What are your feelings about things like Pepper Spray, batons or Stun-Guns?
flashmp 3 years ago
..and I agree with you. It's still mostly the teritory of hardened criminals, though.
I just don't think it's that black and white, though- if you could buy guns in Argos,
the first people who would go and buy them would be the same kind of people that buy dangerous dogs as a status symbol. Idiots who like to get pissed up on Friday night and knock people out for fun.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
When those lot have them, then the rest of us will have no choice, and the risk of having your nose broken of an evening will become the risk of being killed or becoming a murderer.
We already have an overly violent, aggressive, and drunken element to our society. Throwing guns in to the mix would scare the shit out of me.
I don't object to non-lethal defense hardware. I can cope with bruised pride far better than a bullet to the head.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
Would you prefer non-lethal self-defence 'hardware' were legal? As for your view that legal guns would further complicate already dangerous scenarios, I disagree. Wepons are expensive brand new, people won't buy them at the drop of a hat. Also, the people you describe already have access to weapons if they want knives or guns they can just buy them now. The obviously just don't want them. To see what kind of weapons that are available go to the 'CO19 4of6' and watch from about 05:35.
flashmp 3 years ago
On the price issue, I've often come in to contact with people who would rather spend £2000 on a new TV than maintain their own children properly. As such, they are almost more accessible to these people.
To simplify it, say that there are three types of people. The type that will carry weapons regardless, the type that would get a gun if it was legal and the rest of us.
The first camp are bad news, the second are apt to be no strangers to violence, and the last are going to get it in the neck.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
It all comes down to your view of how people will behave, and our views on that will inevitably differ.
As I said, I live in an extremely violent town (where I am not aware of any shootings in my lifetime), and I don't want the local thugs armed. You may trust the asbo-benefit generation to behave responsibly, but I don't.
I know it works in Finland, Switzerland, and the US, but the UK is totally different culturally and socially.
Furrowbrow 3 years ago
What about if we had laws saying you could own firearms in your own home but for public carriage you have to get a licence?
flashmp 3 years ago
@flashmp i pretty much love around responsible gun owners in the UK and go shooting regularly but the thought of some of the dick heads who i used to go school with being able to purchase a gun with no problem at all scares the shit out of me. Guns can just get in the hands of assholes no problem if they lightened up the law like what happens in the US
mrdojob 1 year ago
@flashmp dumblane massacre and the london shooting are comparable, and that is only in the UK areas. usa has had several, finland had 2 more, even canada had one comparable at polytechnic where 15 were killed and i am sure there are a few more massacres comparable around the world.
ultradumbass 1 year ago
that man should of god a victori cross
frankieoldboy 3 years ago
victoria cross is a war medal. my great grandad got a vc.
Mahavishnu80 3 years ago 2
i heard about this event happening, when i was driving home from essex an we went thru hungerford, so i thought it might watch it to see what actually went on, great documentary, enjoyed every bit of it, i like watching the ci channel, have some great things on there, when was this on?
lisalou12 3 years ago 2
I cannot recall exactly when this was shown, but I feel it was late summer 2007
BristolRE 3 years ago
the Princess Margaret Hopsital was in Swindon and not Windsor as mentioned in the documentary, many thanks for the posting it was the first time I had seen this prog, it was very well made and was interesting to find out details I was unaware of for 21 years , my father was killed and my mother injured in this massacre . It was a terrible day for all those concerned , and one we shall never recover from.
missdeebates 3 years ago 5
I am so sorry to hear about your father :'(
KevCityboy 3 years ago 2
thanks you , my father really didnt know anything , my mother lived a further 16 years and had to live with the scars both physical and emotional of the nightmare she endured , there are many survivors still living some of whom still have bulltets in their bodies .
missdeebates 3 years ago 4
That's alright. Woah! I never knew that about the survivors. I was only two then so haven't got any recollection of it.
KevCityboy 3 years ago 2
it was a lifetime ago :)
missdeebates 3 years ago 3
Its a shame banning such guns has'nt curbed,the uks gun problems.
countrywideboy 3 years ago 3
whilst the uk along with many other rcounries has a major gun problem , the strict gun controls we now have, have
prevented another massacre on the scale of Dunblane and Hungerford where the shooters honed their marksmanship skills as members of legitimate licensed gun clubs .
missdeebates 3 years ago
You are unlkely to have this right. The root cause of our violence in the UK is likely to be an unarmed and defencless citizenry. Do we really expect criminals not to take advantage?
Strict gun laws usually preceed more violence in a society, not less. When we had zero gun laws we suffered very little gun crime, today in our officially disarmed society it has gotten worse and worse.
Look up what happened in Jamaica, DC and UK after gun bans were put into place.
thomascrowne612 2 years ago 5
i would want to get rid of these gun laws in the uk but i accept it would INCREASE crime.
both dunblane and hungerford were commited by people using completely legal weapons with licenses and could have been possibly avoided if they had been outlawed then.
the uk also has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world now so your point is invalid
colour749 2 years ago
Colour749, gun crime is higher now than before the ban so your point is invalid and probably laughable.
Change the record. While your at it perhaps you'd care to pint out one place in the world where gun control has reduced gun crime? It can be at anytime in history in any country in the world.
No hurry, but when you have the data please feel free to email me.
thomascrowne612 2 years ago 2
i dono if ur from the uk or not but most of the serious crimes to do with guns such as massacres were commited by people who legally owned them here and in the usa crime with assault weapons decreased after the federal assault weapons ban for instance
colour749 2 years ago
I am from the UK and your wrong about crime rates before and after the assaults weapons ban in the US. In fact the term assault weapon is highly misleading in a US civilian context - no different to any dear hunting rifle. You knew that though, right?
Gun crime is higher in the UK post ban. so your comment is invalid.
Feel free to send the data to me.
thomascrowne612 2 years ago 4
"Gun crime" is irrelevant. There would be no increase in murders if the laws were repealed - there would no doubt be more committed with guns, but that won't make any difference; a murder is a murder and guns don't make you any deader than any other means.
And the state should not be jailing people for possession of any tool.
Guncriminal 2 years ago
so a crazed man with a gun cant kill more people then a crazed man with no gun.
if i wanted to kill and had no previous convictions and bought a gun i could kill dozens of people if i didn't maybe it would just be one person before i was caught.
it makes killing alot easier
colour749 2 years ago
Owning a gun makes killing the crazed man a lot easier, too. As a previous commenter noted- if someone else had a gun, Ryan would have probably been dropped before his second or third victim.
Unilateral disarmament doesn't work.
Guns can be acquired illegally.
Guncriminal 2 years ago 4
All it would have taken was some farmer with his double barrel 12 gauge and Michael Ryan would never have been heard of.
erwintommy 2 years ago 6
Yes,but who would have gone to jail?
The farmer.
This is the UK remember.
garthqueen 2 years ago
that was interesting thanks for posting.
Dw4ttz 3 years ago 2
Very, very flaky emo-doc.
hornetobiker 3 years ago
I live in Swindon and visit Hungerford every month. It is such a beautiful town, but every time I go there I think of those people who were killed on that day. RIP.
seiko1965 3 years ago 2
Thanks very much for posting this documentary. It was interesting to watch.
Dendiol 3 years ago 2