Wonderful to see this stupendous music on TV. Hate the gimmicky camera work though. I just want to see his hands & feet. Save the organ shots for before or after he's finished playing please Mr Arty farty camera man !
Mechanical organs are awesome! I got a back of case tour of the instrument in the Old St. Patrick's Cathedral. They use old headstones from the churchyard as weights for the regulators.
@Ntalikeris666 If you did a simple search you can always find the specifications of an organ, especially one as famous as this one. There are only 2 couplers, Oberwerk to Hauptwerk and Brustwerk to Oberwerk.
Not exactly my favourite rendition of this piece (it's not a "song", as some refer to it, since no singing is involved). It strikes me as rather lacking in flair and drama. I'd rather listen to Simon Preston's rendition of the Prelude & Fugue (on CD; not seen on YouTube so far). He plays a smallish-sounding organ (Klais, Kreuzberg Monastery, Bonn) with an effective variety of registration and appealing bravura that bring this music to life in a way I haven't heard from any other organist.
I like the way this was recorded. In the stereo image you can clearly hear the notes coming from different locations in the organ, such as the pedal notes at the beginning, which go from right to left, from one pedal tower to the other at the sides of the organ. Very beautiful and interesting!
Grat! I had lessons on just this organ and I can tell you it is a beast and very hard to play when using the couples. Every fast run is like bodybuilding for the fingers.
Yes, you can couple all the manuals on/to the main manual (Hauptwerk) - and it´s very hard to play fast runs then I tell you. On the other manuals you have less couples.
It´s nearly impossible - or let´s say: no! You must not forget, this organ has only two or three total tunings until the metal of many pipes will be broken. It´s very fragile, so they take more than good care.
Ít´s normal. The old pipes are 300 years old now. So tuning is very dangerous. But they keep the church in a steady temperature - in winter and summer (!).
@advisorC101 I dont think its that hard. The music assistant is very nice, but I've only played the secondary Kemper (modern) organ in St.Jacobi, when I was offered.
Yea its true that i dont know much about this organ, but logically it has more than two. Since all manuals in most organs couple on the Hauptwerk there should at least be 3 of them just for the hauptwerk manual.
This organ still has quite a lot of its original Schnitger-substance (I have been inside), only the pipes of the prospect and some tiny pipes of the mixtures are not original, the original oak case was lost in WW II, the post war reconstruction of the case again was replaced in 1993. But most of the "sounding substance" including the wind cases is original. The temperament is a modern modification of the middle - tone temperament.
There are tours about the organ every thursday and when i was 5 i went on one. At that time, I could only play Chopsticks on the piano. So when the organist was not looking, i started to play it on this organ in front of everyone. The organist immediately stopped me and told me off!
Another superb recording of John Scott Whiteley, taken I believe from the BBC Series 'Twenty-First Century Bach'. This really is a superb Organ, thanks for posting this.
Is there anything on the registration he uses here. The North German organs always sound a little odd to me- kind of over-assertive. But that may just be the registration.
Silbermann created his own Temperament. Just his own modified 1/6 comma meantone... His organ at Dresden (he died before he finished it) I believe that was tuned to werck Meister
Koopman's latest Buxtehude CD (recorded on the Jacobikirche organ) cites pitch: 495.45 Hz (at 18 C) :o , temperament: 1/6 comma meantone and wind pressure: 80 mm.
The highest on a single stop on this is 8f - with an additional 2f on each (on Werck, Ruckpositiv and Pedal - actually 6-8f). On Oberpositiv and Brustpositiv there are 3f and 4-6f and 2f and 4-6f respectively.
I think the sunglasses are so they could film directly at his face without him looking into the camera because looking into the camera is very unsuited to the program
Exactly... Is it me or is this piece just incredible in the opening.... The rapid octave of scales!!!! WOW!!!! I just the beginning! I just love playing this first chunk and the last chunk of this piece!
um perhaps color blind? One of my freinds is color blind and he has some glasses like those. Anyway this is a fantastic video of one of my favorite preludes and fugues.
he is not blind nor color blind. he has photophobia (extreme light sensitivity) if he takes them off even indoors he will get splitting headaches and become disoriented. i know cuz my dad has the same thing.
Actually he said the sunglasses make it hard for him to see his music. He said in the commentary that all that light was really helpful when he practiced...
I'm not an organist, so I hope I don't sound too ignorant...
I think this piece sounds very good on this 'baroque' era organ versus a modern instrument. It can sound great on a modern one, but it doesn't have that certain sound.
I like the three coupled manuals. It adds a little visual interest along with the music.
Yeah. Thanks. My understanding is that the C major version of the Toccata BWV 566 was written for instruments tuned to meantone, and the E major for equal temperament as Bach was composing during the "transitional" time.
Bach never "composed" thinking about Equal temperament, no musician or theoric from Ancient Eras considered Equal temperament for a possible real use (although it was theorized since the half of XVI century). Bach theorized (and used) a modified Mean tone temperament and was interested in Unequal-Well tempered systems like Werckmeister III, Kirnberger III and Neidhardt II.
Equal temperament and standard 440hz pitch are modern products used since the late XIX century, even Liszt, among others from Romanticism era, used a slight unequal temperament.
Also the (fake) legend that the Alkmaar St.Laurenskerk, Frans Caspar Schnitger organ was the first to be tempered in equal, was clearly proved to be a lie: that organ received equal temp. only toward the end of XVIII century, before it used to have a modified Mean tone.
It is a modified Mean Tone (with an even higher Chorton), pretty similar to the one of St.Cosmae Stade, Arp Schnitger organ (the organ of Vincent Luebeck) and St.Ludgeri in Norden also by Arp Schnitger...
These organs have an extremely similar temperament to the one that Buxtehde used before he commissioned, toward the beginning of 1683, to Werckmeister to "well-temper" the Helsingor and Helsingborg organs in the city of Luebeck where he used to play, an operation that extremely satisfied Diderik Buxtehude (we have a letter of congratulation to the legendary Werckmeister)...
These temperaments are a divine bless from God and a jump back in the ancient times to the real Stylus Phantasticus pure, crystalline, celestial sound...
It exists another, earlier version of BWV566 influenced by mean tone and is called Preambulum in C, you can find also a good recording of it by Christiaan Teeuwsen on the magnificent Hans Heinrich Bader organ.
I prefer the Preambulum earlier version played on a modified mean tone organ with its wonderful contrasts...
I've not worked the quotes out yet. It's seemingly random, some nest some don't. As for reeds, I play the first part of the prelude with the reeds (8' manual, 16' pedal), then pull the reeds off for the Alla Breve, then put them back on at the end of that (3'40 in this clip). I suppose using a manual change is one way of doing that.
Forrest, you are IN VIOLATION of Marie Claire Alain's teaching that everthing shall be played on the SAME manual with the SAME registration. There shall be no contrasts in sound, NOR relief of sound pressure on ears.
In the 70s I attended a Master Class of Alain. I thought I would absolutely love her playing.
But I found it too perfect and sterile.
Her recording of Bach's joyful Gigue Fugue sounded like an organ study, void of celebration, exuberance and joy. E. P. Biggs' Flentrop recording is the best I have ever heard.
Ii attended a concert by Marie Claire in Paris on a Cliquot Organ. She played all Bach which is my greatest love. She was perfection. I sat there in awe of her performance.She played Bach the way I wish I could. I have records of her and a friend of mine in Australia who is a concert organist did have lessons from her. He gave a master class and was always quoting Marie Claire Alain.
I expected her recordings would be the best. Instead they are "perfectly" "boring". Although his recordings were sometimes a little slow, I like Helmut Walcha the best. No one comes close to his marvelous care and detail in Bach, especially Die Kunst Der Fuge, contrapunctus 9(?). Never heard it played better. Wolfgang Rubsam is also superb
As for editions I have a few Novellos but don't really take much notice of the editorial stuff. I prefer playing off my Dover editions as they're reprints of the Bach Gesellschaft, even so, I find myself adding more ornaments than are printed - as was then the practice.
And my toe markings where I do mark this, normally are alternate toes. Not dissimilar from the technique used by Aarnoud de Groen in his clips on here, but slightly more vertical - and that is not height related!
The best editions of Bach are the Marcel Dupre ones. I don't know if they are still published. I wish they were, mine have been worn from use. Dupre marks every finger and pedal toe & heel.
BTW, Bach rarely ever suggested registration and even which keyboard to use.
The Dupre ones are the WORST!!! He played Bach on the romantic way!!! ALL HIS FINGERING (AND HIS PEDAL) IS WRONG, HIS ARTICULATION IS WRONG. Know the early and baroque articulation.
The performer can do what ever he/she wants. The performer makes it sound the way they like it it does not matter what he or she does as long as the pgrasing meets there standards
Yes. What dummy at Novello started it? But why would anyone follow full organ for final chord or last few measures. Horrible. I will have full chorus and reeds and add last extra stops with final episode or entrance of fugue subject, but not at the very end. When I hear the final additions at the last measure, I ask, "Why couldn't we have heard that earlier?" How glorious the final fugue subject could have reigned.[ILR]
Who knows? Maybe it represented their era's performance practice. The "suggested" registrations in those editions annoy me immensely. That fugue is quiet, anyway. I rarely use a mixture, and occasionally emphasise the pedal with 8' reed. BWV532, however, is pleno material. Not that I *like* the Toccata and Fugue, I find it turgid.
Thanks Forest. I found the fugue. Even if era's practice, I'd reject it. I had Peters Edition, until I memorized everything and gave them away. Regret that. Have discovered that I have changed notes and forgotten much. Now have the pocket scores but need reading glasses as my eyes age and lens harden. I love pedal mixtures. Love the pedale to be bright and "shinny". I don't understand your last sentence.
I just find BWV565 so incredibly dull and un-Bach like.
As for the discussion on performance practice, I tend to think that works should be performed according to the conditions of the day as much as possible. If an era's practice included certain factors, then you should try and replicate that in your own performance.
After all the theory, I found a simple answer: Era's practice is always the best because it always sound better, as Baroque is always better than modern sound...
Plus, on the Jacobikirche organ it's not very easy to change the registers in the middle of a piece. Can you see where they are? They can be miles away.
Thanks Forest. I like the 16' reed but one should turn it off for contrast and relief. Those old stops can be a little stiff but I have pulled them on by myself. While playing best to have a stop puller. Years ago I tuned a Sharf V. (Should be illegal -- Thought I'd go nuts!) I love those big wonderful mixtures.
There is a series of clips of someone playing a Buxtehude prelude, he has 2 people either side changing the stops. Personally, I think manual changes can be more authentic - and indeed effective - than using a stop change, unless it's just removing a reed or something.
Yes. Isn't that why we have more than one manual? Often I start on Hauptwerk, then go to Oberwerk for contrast and relief. Then add reed on the HW and pedal. Never add stops just for the final measure - why do people do that? Never a 32' reed anywhere in Bach.
Yeah, though if I tend to do anything other than a manual change in Bach, it's usually only addition/subtraction of a reed.
Why not 32' reeds though? Bach would have had them, plenty of Silbermanns, and indeed this Schnitger, have them. At Maassluis (Garrels organ) the Ped has 32' to 4' reeds, and HW, BW and RW have 2, 1 and 3 respectively.
As much as I love powerful, or not powerful, 32' reeds, I have never found a Bach piece in which it is appropriate. But 32' Prinzipal with 16' reed is wonderful. A 32' reed in Max Reger is glorius!
Gotta go. I must play the fugue absent from this recording. Why no fugue?
Yes. But some get into the work so intellectually and analytically that they lose innate raw understanding.
To me it sounds very unnatural to play all notes broken (detached). I know all the reasons, but to the "uneducated natural ear" it sounds wrong. Yet, that seems to be in vogue.
Some will apply full organ at the very end. How unmusical and boastful - but their choice. I never do that. And it does matter what others think. You are playing for them.
Why does my reply not appear under the post of toe person to whom I am responding? This will probably appear after Forest's latest (Koopman) post.
Often I do not use a reed in pedal unless a reed is already in the manual. I'll add stops as fugue subject reenters. No "add everything at the final few measures" nonsense.
Some stylish playing. Who is it? Why do organists persist in avoiding reeds on the pedal? In the Baroque, these were typically the mainstay of the pedal department.
I'd say this is probably the best performance on the DVD. If one looks at the BWV 564 Toccata there are a few slips perhaps suggesting it was filmed in a hurry or not as highly valued by the producers.
Even if there are little mistakes, I like a lot this 4 Dvds set; maybe my favourite performances are BWV 578, BWV 537 and many chorales. The only thing that I have found unpleasant (except a couple of awful, non-historical organs), is the camera works that sometimes desperately tries to hide the presence of a collaborator that helps pulling the stops, especially in St. Jacobi...
This is played not too fast at all, it is a moderate tempo performance. Forkel (a good nationalism supporter but a terrible musical critic), developed the idea of Bach "the slow organ player" but all the witnessing and tales about Bach at Weimar, talk about "organ legend" and "fingers so fast that cannot be seen". The truth lies in the mystery, but it is sure that Bach was not a boring, slow organist at all...
Does anyone noticed the incredible resemblance in shape, between the hand (with pretty chubby, short fingers) of J.S.Whiteley and the one of J.S,Bach in His famous portraits by E.G.Haussmann (1746-48)?
You are right. My idea was that the muscles of the fingers can be affected in their shape by the particular exercises that must be done to develop a true Baroque fingering technique full of multiple trills, mordents and appoggiaturas at fast speed. This aspect is foucused in many books about period fingering.
Yes, I noticed. If You ever visited Baroque and Renaissance organs (perfectly restored) of Europe, You would have noticed for sure, that the pedalboards are very different form modern ones (shape, position, dimension, keys not parallel to the floor, etc.) and these characteristics force the performers to use a true Baroque pedalling technique, based on a deep study of old styles.
I used to take organ lessons on a very Baroque strict Baroque organ the pedal board was not paralell to the floor but it was not perfectly flat. But I played a bery strict organ by Brombaugh in Eugene Oregon. The pedals were flat Tracker, Only went to High G the pedals went up to middle f. As a matter a fact the only 16' Principal was in the great not in the pedal. I can give you a link to the Specifications and some pictures if youd like I can give you lots more info too.
Yes, I know that organ and I am a great fan of it; it is a beautiful instrument and many beautiful recordings have been made on it (in particular on Naxos rec. and by Harald Vogel). I never visited this Brombaugh organ (I am from Italy) but as You were so lucky to be trained on it...
...You would have noticed that on the pedalboards in the old style (that are diagonal toward the bench), it is almost impossible to play with heels (and also not necessary at all in Baroque and Renaissance repertoire). I have some links about this organ, so I suppose they are the same, anyway thank You.
Actually I took one lesson on the Brombaugh I went there for a Pipe Organ Encounter one summer. I have also played the Flentrop organ of Saint Marks Cathedral in Seattle WA. (I live near Seattle) the first time I heard the Brombaugh I really started noticing things. I am very strict when it comes to Baroque pedaling. I only use toes on Baroque music. other than that I use heels.
In USA there are lots of magnificent rigorously built instruments in true Baroque style: Brombaugh, Fritts, Fisk, among others firms, made wonderful copies and historic inspired organs.
Utext is always the worst solution but the only possible for those whom cannot do a research on copies and manuscripts by themselves. Urtext is overcorrected utopia. If Bach wanted to fix strict rules about ornamentation and "how to play His works", He would have written a specific book by Himself.
I definitely think the fugue was a much better performance. First of all, I did like the speading up (Easing into the tempo) in the opening octaves in the pedal. But my professor never would have allowed me to retard at each of the broken chords. Also there is no call to change manuals at the end of the section right before the "alle breve." And I'm guessing you weren't using the urtext? So many ornaments in the alle breve! And a different pedal line at the end.
I have the urtext also, and I haven't seen those embellishments in the score nor have I heard them in any other recording. Well there's a limit to the characters I could type, but I really meant, that even if you're going to change manuals, the registration change shouldn't be so drastic (in my humble opinion). In fact this is the first and only recording I've heard that done. Of course a manual change for the alla breve is perfect.
Ornamentation is supposed to be added or omitted at the performers discretion. There's nothing to suggest we should only follow what's in the score. I think the manual change at the point in question provides a bridge between the slow tremolo and the fairly upbeat alla breve.
Exactly, it depends from what someone wants to achieve... In Baroque era kids of fourteen years old were already virtuosos... And I'm not referring to the old legend by J.N.Forkel about Goldberg...
In our days Tv, videogames, internet (if used aimlessly) and silly useless subjects distract kids from studying Music, Literature, Philosophy, History and true beautiful Great Art. I suppose this is the reason why great geniuses no more appear... J.S.Bach had nothing material, but made of Himself the greatest of Musical History...
Alfred Hitchcock walking entrance and aplomb, together with a great Baroque performance, very, very good! I hope You record more, more and more DVDs, cool-chubby Mr. Whitely!
The keys on the Woodstock organ in Fotheringhay Church, Northamptonshire ar shorter and they are so much easier to play. This organist is excellent, i think i saw him conducting at York Minster. More please!!!
Beautiful music. I love the color, carvings, and inlay on the keyboards - but the keys seem shorter and wider than our keys today? does that make it difficult to play?
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Hi,i am looking for a fugue speciallist to tell me what is that chromatic fugue:
youtube.com/watch?v=yotypIIavlQ&list=HL1326399726&feature=mh_lolz
I found it as notes and then i made it with a music notation program
Enlightenment82 2 weeks ago
Wonderful to see this stupendous music on TV. Hate the gimmicky camera work though. I just want to see his hands & feet. Save the organ shots for before or after he's finished playing please Mr Arty farty camera man !
pobinr 2 months ago
Mechanical organs are awesome! I got a back of case tour of the instrument in the Old St. Patrick's Cathedral. They use old headstones from the churchyard as weights for the regulators.
jimamia77 3 months ago
@Ntalikeris666 If you did a simple search you can always find the specifications of an organ, especially one as famous as this one. There are only 2 couplers, Oberwerk to Hauptwerk and Brustwerk to Oberwerk.
jtingyz 4 months ago
Not exactly my favourite rendition of this piece (it's not a "song", as some refer to it, since no singing is involved). It strikes me as rather lacking in flair and drama. I'd rather listen to Simon Preston's rendition of the Prelude & Fugue (on CD; not seen on YouTube so far). He plays a smallish-sounding organ (Klais, Kreuzberg Monastery, Bonn) with an effective variety of registration and appealing bravura that bring this music to life in a way I haven't heard from any other organist.
opeendaginmaart57 6 months ago
excelent performance
alexdinhohd 6 months ago
Beautiful organ. One can definitely see the influence of the Schnitger organs in some of the modern masters (Taylor and Boody, Fritts, et al).
mattsplace85 6 months ago
I liked that. I heard that song 4 years ago.
PandaStation3 7 months ago in playlist CHURCH ORGAN!!!
75000 VIEWS!! OMGOMG
kknots 11 months ago
Mr. Scott Whiteley remeber me Max Reger!
raxmeger 1 year ago
Love it almost as much as I love Felix Hell playing it.
jrworde 1 year ago
I like the way this was recorded. In the stereo image you can clearly hear the notes coming from different locations in the organ, such as the pedal notes at the beginning, which go from right to left, from one pedal tower to the other at the sides of the organ. Very beautiful and interesting!
ccoraxfan 1 year ago
Excelente interpretação e um excelente organista !! Ficou 100% excelente !!
Guipianista 2 years ago
If anyone wants to play this organ, its really quite easy, just ask the organist who is very nice and speaks english.
organist12345 2 years ago
Magistrale.
I would love to feel the keys of this organ,
carved and cherished by the many organists before us.
beautiful Piece!
thanx John Scott!
paul260478 2 years ago
amazing piece is this one
sirpryde 2 years ago
Grat! I had lessons on just this organ and I can tell you it is a beast and very hard to play when using the couples. Every fast run is like bodybuilding for the fingers.
anonymusum 2 years ago
anonymusum,
How do the couplers work here? I know that you can't couple pedals to manuals on this organ but is it possible to couple all the manuals?
advisorC101 2 years ago
Yes, you can couple all the manuals on/to the main manual (Hauptwerk) - and it´s very hard to play fast runs then I tell you. On the other manuals you have less couples.
anonymusum 2 years ago
Thank you for the information, is it hard to get permission to play this organ?
advisorC101 2 years ago
It´s nearly impossible - or let´s say: no! You must not forget, this organ has only two or three total tunings until the metal of many pipes will be broken. It´s very fragile, so they take more than good care.
anonymusum 2 years ago
Oh dear.. So the deterioration is really that bad...
advisorC101 2 years ago
Ít´s normal. The old pipes are 300 years old now. So tuning is very dangerous. But they keep the church in a steady temperature - in winter and summer (!).
anonymusum 2 years ago
There is a replica of this organ in Sweden! Try it! :P
tjugofyra 1 year ago
@advisorC101 I dont think its that hard. The music assistant is very nice, but I've only played the secondary Kemper (modern) organ in St.Jacobi, when I was offered.
Give the music office a ring, and ask.
organist12345 1 year ago
Exelsior!!!
abarlaro 2 years ago
How is this organ winded today?
Brandotuomikoski 2 years ago
The organs today use and electric pump.
falcons1988 2 years ago
Quel bon goût,quelle finesse dans le toucher;c'est de la dentelle, de la pure poésie...
christiancolard 3 years ago
Comment removed
Ntalikeris666 3 years ago
actually just 2. I bet you dont know this organ at all.
organist12345 2 years ago
Yea its true that i dont know much about this organ, but logically it has more than two. Since all manuals in most organs couple on the Hauptwerk there should at least be 3 of them just for the hauptwerk manual.
Ntalikeris666 2 years ago
Ntalikeris666 Comment above mine which he removed was that he said there were lots of couplers on this organ. When in fact there are just 2.
organist12345 2 years ago
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The best performance I have ever seen.
Phaare 3 years ago 3
Excellent Performance
treychriss 3 years ago 2
what is it with those type of organs, the keyboards look so small
gamecrazy132 3 years ago
When you've got three manuals and the pedals you don't necessarily need a piano's seven octaves.
willowthebored 3 years ago 2
This organ still has quite a lot of its original Schnitger-substance (I have been inside), only the pipes of the prospect and some tiny pipes of the mixtures are not original, the original oak case was lost in WW II, the post war reconstruction of the case again was replaced in 1993. But most of the "sounding substance" including the wind cases is original. The temperament is a modern modification of the middle - tone temperament.
2lipsonmy0rgan 3 years ago
muhtesem bir vidyo. zaten hastayim bu adama cok karizma.
54spiritedwill54 3 years ago
I have a funny story about this organ.
There are tours about the organ every thursday and when i was 5 i went on one. At that time, I could only play Chopsticks on the piano. So when the organist was not looking, i started to play it on this organ in front of everyone. The organist immediately stopped me and told me off!
organist12345 3 years ago 12
@organist12345 why is this "funny"?
organisten 7 months ago
@organisten It's funny for me looking back at it. The fact that at that time I didn't really realise why everyone was staring at me after I did that.
organist12345 7 months ago
actually for you ignorants, theyre not sunglasses he is wearing, he has bad eyesight and sensetivity to the light
joeyboi87 3 years ago
Youve been pretty ignorant too. On some other comments
organist12345 3 years ago
The sunglasses are simply to look cool. The ring on the middle finger, who knows?
samanthatina 3 years ago
the dark glasses are dark reading glasses to counter the glare from the stage lighting.
organmus1982 3 years ago
i HAVE WATCHED THIS A MILLION TIMES. IT STILL AMASSISES ME HOW HE CAN PLAY THIS SO GOOD. MY FAVORITE SONG!@
Brandotuomikoski 3 years ago
Another superb recording of John Scott Whiteley, taken I believe from the BBC Series 'Twenty-First Century Bach'. This really is a superb Organ, thanks for posting this.
ds1868 3 years ago
Is there anything on the registration he uses here. The North German organs always sound a little odd to me- kind of over-assertive. But that may just be the registration.
guyoftheplace 3 years ago
I think it might be the tuning.
For the Schnitger organs it is usually 1/4 comma meantone.
Silbermann used the Werckmeister 3 temperment)
For my money, the Schitger organs were much better sounding than the Silbermann organs, simply because they had a little bit of stridancy.
rmas528a 3 years ago
Silbermann created his own Temperament. Just his own modified 1/6 comma meantone... His organ at Dresden (he died before he finished it) I believe that was tuned to werck Meister
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Koopman's latest Buxtehude CD (recorded on the Jacobikirche organ) cites pitch: 495.45 Hz (at 18 C) :o , temperament: 1/6 comma meantone and wind pressure: 80 mm.
Nice recording, nice playing, great instrument...
ForestChav 3 years ago
It is actually the mixtures North German organs had assertive Mixtures... Sometimes up to 12 ranks...
Bachlives2 3 years ago
The highest on a single stop on this is 8f - with an additional 2f on each (on Werck, Ruckpositiv and Pedal - actually 6-8f). On Oberpositiv and Brustpositiv there are 3f and 4-6f and 2f and 4-6f respectively.
ForestChav 3 years ago
You mean the Smallest of the Scharf in the Brust Posotif?
Bachlives2 3 years ago
for example the Gabler organ in Weingarten has 12 rank mixtures and don`t forget "La force" 49 f. ;-) but it`s only th C
DRJFK1986 3 years ago
is there a recording of it. It sounds interestingly hair-raising!
organist12345 2 years ago
you can buy the 21st century bach dvds of john scott whiteley playing other bach pieces but there isnt a recording of it
joeyboi87 2 years ago
I think the sunglasses are so they could film directly at his face without him looking into the camera because looking into the camera is very unsuited to the program
ZachariasHildebrandt 3 years ago
Exactly... Is it me or is this piece just incredible in the opening.... The rapid octave of scales!!!! WOW!!!! I just the beginning! I just love playing this first chunk and the last chunk of this piece!
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Best bach song!
Brandotuomikoski 3 years ago
Is he blind??
Sebastianos123 4 years ago
He obviously watches the notes while playing. So it remains a mystery why he wears sun glasses.
bruhns 4 years ago
They are not sun glasses. They are transition lenses that darken in bright light. I have a pair of them.
YMNTWTANKH 4 years ago
um perhaps color blind? One of my freinds is color blind and he has some glasses like those. Anyway this is a fantastic video of one of my favorite preludes and fugues.
:-)
muzical15 4 years ago
he is not blind nor color blind. he has photophobia (extreme light sensitivity) if he takes them off even indoors he will get splitting headaches and become disoriented. i know cuz my dad has the same thing.
gamefreakz91 3 years ago
No, his eyes are very sensitive to light and he needs sunglasses to make him able to see
Brandotuomikoski 3 years ago
Actually he said the sunglasses make it hard for him to see his music. He said in the commentary that all that light was really helpful when he practiced...
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Never mind...i suppose i should read the whole title next time, but i do think the fugue is the better portion of the piece
RLcoolJ9 4 years ago
just to put it out there...this is only the prelude, not the prelude and fugue
RLcoolJ9 4 years ago
muhtesem bir vidyo. zaten hastayim bu adama cok karizma.
robotech3 4 years ago
This is a Baroque organ......very good played.
AlexandruCatau 4 years ago
Wow, it sounds almost atonal in the final minute!
thebluereview 4 years ago
Sorry, thought you were asking about the location :/
mannickpol 4 years ago
See the description :) The instrument is located in St. Jacob's Church in Hamburg, Germany.
Nice keyboards, is this key set called a "short octave"? Anyone knows?
A great performance indeed!
Best wishes!
mannickpol 4 years ago
what organ is this? anyone know? Sounds fantastic.
classicalmusic1mzrt 4 years ago
Fantastic performance!
I'm not an organist, so I hope I don't sound too ignorant...
I think this piece sounds very good on this 'baroque' era organ versus a modern instrument. It can sound great on a modern one, but it doesn't have that certain sound.
I like the three coupled manuals. It adds a little visual interest along with the music.
:)
usspike 4 years ago
Well your quite an incredible organist, one of my favorite on youtube.
thanks
poopingeneral 4 years ago
Stupendo, veramente bello, anche la montatura del video. complimenti!
alessiobach 4 years ago
Wow, a reply making more sense than MeZZosOpRaNOz :D
ForestChav 4 years ago
Any idea what temperament is used? The bit at the beginning (over the F sharp pedal) sounds rather interesting, as do other parts of the Prelude!
GazTheMusicMan 4 years ago
Dunno, but Koopman recorded BWV 566 in C not E because of it. I suspect it's some sort of meantone.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Yeah. Thanks. My understanding is that the C major version of the Toccata BWV 566 was written for instruments tuned to meantone, and the E major for equal temperament as Bach was composing during the "transitional" time.
GazTheMusicMan 4 years ago
Yes, autographs of both keys by Bach exist, so that would be plausible.
After all, E on that Schnitger would sound horrid.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Aye!
GazTheMusicMan 4 years ago
Bach never "composed" thinking about Equal temperament, no musician or theoric from Ancient Eras considered Equal temperament for a possible real use (although it was theorized since the half of XVI century). Bach theorized (and used) a modified Mean tone temperament and was interested in Unequal-Well tempered systems like Werckmeister III, Kirnberger III and Neidhardt II.
alra1975 4 years ago
Equal temperament and standard 440hz pitch are modern products used since the late XIX century, even Liszt, among others from Romanticism era, used a slight unequal temperament.
Also the (fake) legend that the Alkmaar St.Laurenskerk, Frans Caspar Schnitger organ was the first to be tempered in equal, was clearly proved to be a lie: that organ received equal temp. only toward the end of XVIII century, before it used to have a modified Mean tone.
alra1975 4 years ago
It is a modified Mean Tone (with an even higher Chorton), pretty similar to the one of St.Cosmae Stade, Arp Schnitger organ (the organ of Vincent Luebeck) and St.Ludgeri in Norden also by Arp Schnitger...
alra1975 4 years ago
These organs have an extremely similar temperament to the one that Buxtehde used before he commissioned, toward the beginning of 1683, to Werckmeister to "well-temper" the Helsingor and Helsingborg organs in the city of Luebeck where he used to play, an operation that extremely satisfied Diderik Buxtehude (we have a letter of congratulation to the legendary Werckmeister)...
alra1975 4 years ago
These temperaments are a divine bless from God and a jump back in the ancient times to the real Stylus Phantasticus pure, crystalline, celestial sound...
alra1975 4 years ago
It exists another, earlier version of BWV566 influenced by mean tone and is called Preambulum in C, you can find also a good recording of it by Christiaan Teeuwsen on the magnificent Hans Heinrich Bader organ.
I prefer the Preambulum earlier version played on a modified mean tone organ with its wonderful contrasts...
alra1975 4 years ago
I've not worked the quotes out yet. It's seemingly random, some nest some don't. As for reeds, I play the first part of the prelude with the reeds (8' manual, 16' pedal), then pull the reeds off for the Alla Breve, then put them back on at the end of that (3'40 in this clip). I suppose using a manual change is one way of doing that.
ForestChav 4 years ago
that's the same way I do it,
also,I don't see why a lot of people don't like reeds on the pedal,it was common for a lot of organs to ONLY have a reed in the pedal.
servorumdei 4 years ago
Forrest, you are IN VIOLATION of Marie Claire Alain's teaching that everthing shall be played on the SAME manual with the SAME registration. There shall be no contrasts in sound, NOR relief of sound pressure on ears.
robertgift 4 years ago
According to this practice, why do organs have more than one manual?
robertgift 4 years ago
Alain isn't exactly Koopman though.
20th century-centred performer who believes (s)he can play Bach.
ForestChav 4 years ago
In the 70s I attended a Master Class of Alain. I thought I would absolutely love her playing.
But I found it too perfect and sterile.
Her recording of Bach's joyful Gigue Fugue sounded like an organ study, void of celebration, exuberance and joy. E. P. Biggs' Flentrop recording is the best I have ever heard.
robertgift 4 years ago
Ii attended a concert by Marie Claire in Paris on a Cliquot Organ. She played all Bach which is my greatest love. She was perfection. I sat there in awe of her performance.She played Bach the way I wish I could. I have records of her and a friend of mine in Australia who is a concert organist did have lessons from her. He gave a master class and was always quoting Marie Claire Alain.
YMNTWTANKH 4 years ago
Almost guaranteed boredom then!
GazTheMusicMan 4 years ago
I expected her recordings would be the best. Instead they are "perfectly" "boring". Although his recordings were sometimes a little slow, I like Helmut Walcha the best. No one comes close to his marvelous care and detail in Bach, especially Die Kunst Der Fuge, contrapunctus 9(?). Never heard it played better. Wolfgang Rubsam is also superb
with it.
robertgift 4 years ago 5
As for editions I have a few Novellos but don't really take much notice of the editorial stuff. I prefer playing off my Dover editions as they're reprints of the Bach Gesellschaft, even so, I find myself adding more ornaments than are printed - as was then the practice.
And my toe markings where I do mark this, normally are alternate toes. Not dissimilar from the technique used by Aarnoud de Groen in his clips on here, but slightly more vertical - and that is not height related!
ForestChav 4 years ago
The best editions of Bach are the Marcel Dupre ones. I don't know if they are still published. I wish they were, mine have been worn from use. Dupre marks every finger and pedal toe & heel.
BTW, Bach rarely ever suggested registration and even which keyboard to use.
YMNTWTANKH 4 years ago
Never ever use heel on Bach ever!
Bachlives2 4 years ago
The Dupre ones are the WORST!!! He played Bach on the romantic way!!! ALL HIS FINGERING (AND HIS PEDAL) IS WRONG, HIS ARTICULATION IS WRONG. Know the early and baroque articulation.
M4UR1C1OMR 3 years ago
Yes they are terrible I have one of them and My teacher said to just scribble out all of Dupres Markings!
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Examples of such in Baroque:
- Toes only, vertical pedalling
- Use of powerful mixtures in the plenum
- Not playing totally legato, or indeed, totally staccato
- Liberty of performers to ornament in places other than where the composer indicates
etc.
ForestChav 4 years ago
The performer can do what ever he/she wants. The performer makes it sound the way they like it it does not matter what he or she does as long as the pgrasing meets there standards
Bachlives2 4 years ago
There is a (Novello-induced) tendency in England to add a loud reed on the last chord of the fugue in BWV565. I detest that.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Yes. What dummy at Novello started it? But why would anyone follow full organ for final chord or last few measures. Horrible. I will have full chorus and reeds and add last extra stops with final episode or entrance of fugue subject, but not at the very end. When I hear the final additions at the last measure, I ask, "Why couldn't we have heard that earlier?" How glorious the final fugue subject could have reigned.[ILR]
robertgift 4 years ago
Who knows? Maybe it represented their era's performance practice. The "suggested" registrations in those editions annoy me immensely. That fugue is quiet, anyway. I rarely use a mixture, and occasionally emphasise the pedal with 8' reed. BWV532, however, is pleno material. Not that I *like* the Toccata and Fugue, I find it turgid.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Thanks Forest. I found the fugue. Even if era's practice, I'd reject it. I had Peters Edition, until I memorized everything and gave them away. Regret that. Have discovered that I have changed notes and forgotten much. Now have the pocket scores but need reading glasses as my eyes age and lens harden. I love pedal mixtures. Love the pedale to be bright and "shinny". I don't understand your last sentence.
robertgift 4 years ago
I just find BWV565 so incredibly dull and un-Bach like.
As for the discussion on performance practice, I tend to think that works should be performed according to the conditions of the day as much as possible. If an era's practice included certain factors, then you should try and replicate that in your own performance.
ForestChav 4 years ago
After all the theory, I found a simple answer: Era's practice is always the best because it always sound better, as Baroque is always better than modern sound...
alra1975 4 years ago
Plus, on the Jacobikirche organ it's not very easy to change the registers in the middle of a piece. Can you see where they are? They can be miles away.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Thanks Forest. I like the 16' reed but one should turn it off for contrast and relief. Those old stops can be a little stiff but I have pulled them on by myself. While playing best to have a stop puller. Years ago I tuned a Sharf V. (Should be illegal -- Thought I'd go nuts!) I love those big wonderful mixtures.
robertgift 4 years ago
There is a series of clips of someone playing a Buxtehude prelude, he has 2 people either side changing the stops. Personally, I think manual changes can be more authentic - and indeed effective - than using a stop change, unless it's just removing a reed or something.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Yes. Isn't that why we have more than one manual? Often I start on Hauptwerk, then go to Oberwerk for contrast and relief. Then add reed on the HW and pedal. Never add stops just for the final measure - why do people do that? Never a 32' reed anywhere in Bach.
robertgift 4 years ago
Yeah, though if I tend to do anything other than a manual change in Bach, it's usually only addition/subtraction of a reed.
Why not 32' reeds though? Bach would have had them, plenty of Silbermanns, and indeed this Schnitger, have them. At Maassluis (Garrels organ) the Ped has 32' to 4' reeds, and HW, BW and RW have 2, 1 and 3 respectively.
ForestChav 4 years ago
As much as I love powerful, or not powerful, 32' reeds, I have never found a Bach piece in which it is appropriate. But 32' Prinzipal with 16' reed is wonderful. A 32' reed in Max Reger is glorius!
Gotta go. I must play the fugue absent from this recording. Why no fugue?
robertgift 4 years ago
It's there, there's a 10 min limit on YT clips so the fugue is in a separate vid.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Where? I must hear it!!!
Why do my replies not appeaer under your posts?
robertgift 4 years ago
Look in his clips, we can't really post URLs here.
ForestChav 4 years ago
It does not mattr what you thinkit is the artists choice
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Yes. But some get into the work so intellectually and analytically that they lose innate raw understanding.
To me it sounds very unnatural to play all notes broken (detached). I know all the reasons, but to the "uneducated natural ear" it sounds wrong. Yet, that seems to be in vogue.
Some will apply full organ at the very end. How unmusical and boastful - but their choice. I never do that. And it does matter what others think. You are playing for them.
robertgift 4 years ago
I use a pleno at the end, with whatever reeds the pedal has.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Why does my reply not appear under the post of toe person to whom I am responding? This will probably appear after Forest's latest (Koopman) post.
Often I do not use a reed in pedal unless a reed is already in the manual. I'll add stops as fugue subject reenters. No "add everything at the final few measures" nonsense.
robertgift 4 years ago
Reading your comments about Koopman, you are hypocritical.
ForestChav 4 years ago
OK, where the FUGUE?!
But nice job.
You don't want too much reed all the time.
There are appropriate places for reeds in the pedal and other times where it is too much and distracting.
robertgift 4 years ago
Most of that is Mixture.
Disposition here
arpschnitgerDOTnlSLASHshambDOThtml
Hauptwerk has an eight rank mixture.
His use of the 16' pedal reed is perfectly accurate.
ForestChav 4 years ago
bozner88 me to! Siboire ses bon sa
animeapoteux 4 years ago
watch Patricio Molina playing Bach
chilean100 4 years ago
listening to this organ gives me goosebumps (in a good way).
eschnitger 4 years ago
I feel Bach was laughing when he played this piece ! This man was a genius :)
waeman 4 years ago
maravilhoso, ótima apresentação! explêndido!
edsoncaq 4 years ago
there is a reed in it...
tosserani 4 years ago
Some stylish playing. Who is it? Why do organists persist in avoiding reeds on the pedal? In the Baroque, these were typically the mainstay of the pedal department.
spacecadet2016 4 years ago
Bravissimo, eccellente esecuzione!!!
alessiobach 4 years ago
I'd say this is probably the best performance on the DVD. If one looks at the BWV 564 Toccata there are a few slips perhaps suggesting it was filmed in a hurry or not as highly valued by the producers.
ZachariasHildebrandt 4 years ago
Even if there are little mistakes, I like a lot this 4 Dvds set; maybe my favourite performances are BWV 578, BWV 537 and many chorales. The only thing that I have found unpleasant (except a couple of awful, non-historical organs), is the camera works that sometimes desperately tries to hide the presence of a collaborator that helps pulling the stops, especially in St. Jacobi...
alra1975 4 years ago
This is played not too fast at all, it is a moderate tempo performance. Forkel (a good nationalism supporter but a terrible musical critic), developed the idea of Bach "the slow organ player" but all the witnessing and tales about Bach at Weimar, talk about "organ legend" and "fingers so fast that cannot be seen". The truth lies in the mystery, but it is sure that Bach was not a boring, slow organist at all...
alra1975 4 years ago
It is still not the correct style. I cannot enjoy an organist that plays that fast.
footlover1685 4 years ago
i supose its a little fast but i wouldnt have the pations for it to be any slower
pipeorganDUDE 4 years ago
The only reason some people play it slower is because their pedal technique is insufficient due to use of the heel.
ZachariasHildebrandt 4 years ago
yes and he dose this very well
pipeorganDUDE 4 years ago
I totally agree with you on that
Bachlives2 4 years ago
by the way folks, i am pipeorganDUDE, i have just changed my name to MeZzOsOpRaNoz, as u can see
MeZZosOpRaNOz 4 years ago
This is played way too fast! Bach did not play his works that fast due to the acoustics he had. This is terrible. UH.
footlover1685 4 years ago
i think it sounds better fast it makes the pice sound livly and enjoyable to play
pipeorganDUDE 4 years ago
Does anyone noticed the incredible resemblance in shape, between the hand (with pretty chubby, short fingers) of J.S.Whiteley and the one of J.S,Bach in His famous portraits by E.G.Haussmann (1746-48)?
alra1975 5 years ago
Yeah I have noticed the hands are the same shape. I think John plays this really well.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
You are right. My idea was that the muscles of the fingers can be affected in their shape by the particular exercises that must be done to develop a true Baroque fingering technique full of multiple trills, mordents and appoggiaturas at fast speed. This aspect is foucused in many books about period fingering.
alra1975 4 years ago
Yeah I really agree with that. Have you noticed that his organ shoes are a little thicker than most?
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Yes, I noticed. If You ever visited Baroque and Renaissance organs (perfectly restored) of Europe, You would have noticed for sure, that the pedalboards are very different form modern ones (shape, position, dimension, keys not parallel to the floor, etc.) and these characteristics force the performers to use a true Baroque pedalling technique, based on a deep study of old styles.
alra1975 4 years ago
I used to take organ lessons on a very Baroque strict Baroque organ the pedal board was not paralell to the floor but it was not perfectly flat. But I played a bery strict organ by Brombaugh in Eugene Oregon. The pedals were flat Tracker, Only went to High G the pedals went up to middle f. As a matter a fact the only 16' Principal was in the great not in the pedal. I can give you a link to the Specifications and some pictures if youd like I can give you lots more info too.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Yes, I know that organ and I am a great fan of it; it is a beautiful instrument and many beautiful recordings have been made on it (in particular on Naxos rec. and by Harald Vogel). I never visited this Brombaugh organ (I am from Italy) but as You were so lucky to be trained on it...
alra1975 4 years ago
...You would have noticed that on the pedalboards in the old style (that are diagonal toward the bench), it is almost impossible to play with heels (and also not necessary at all in Baroque and Renaissance repertoire). I have some links about this organ, so I suppose they are the same, anyway thank You.
alra1975 4 years ago
Actually I took one lesson on the Brombaugh I went there for a Pipe Organ Encounter one summer. I have also played the Flentrop organ of Saint Marks Cathedral in Seattle WA. (I live near Seattle) the first time I heard the Brombaugh I really started noticing things. I am very strict when it comes to Baroque pedaling. I only use toes on Baroque music. other than that I use heels.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
In USA there are lots of magnificent rigorously built instruments in true Baroque style: Brombaugh, Fritts, Fisk, among others firms, made wonderful copies and historic inspired organs.
alra1975 4 years ago
Utext is always the worst solution but the only possible for those whom cannot do a research on copies and manuscripts by themselves. Urtext is overcorrected utopia. If Bach wanted to fix strict rules about ornamentation and "how to play His works", He would have written a specific book by Himself.
alra1975 5 years ago
I definitely think the fugue was a much better performance. First of all, I did like the speading up (Easing into the tempo) in the opening octaves in the pedal. But my professor never would have allowed me to retard at each of the broken chords. Also there is no call to change manuals at the end of the section right before the "alle breve." And I'm guessing you weren't using the urtext? So many ornaments in the alle breve! And a different pedal line at the end.
8521v7 5 years ago
Urtext was used. Why is there no need to change manuals before the alla breve? In which rule book is this written? Also who is your professor?
ZachariasHildebrandt 5 years ago
I have the urtext also, and I haven't seen those embellishments in the score nor have I heard them in any other recording. Well there's a limit to the characters I could type, but I really meant, that even if you're going to change manuals, the registration change shouldn't be so drastic (in my humble opinion). In fact this is the first and only recording I've heard that done. Of course a manual change for the alla breve is perfect.
8521v7 5 years ago
Ornamentation is supposed to be added or omitted at the performers discretion. There's nothing to suggest we should only follow what's in the score. I think the manual change at the point in question provides a bridge between the slow tremolo and the fairly upbeat alla breve.
ZachariasHildebrandt 5 years ago
A whole life, but it depends from what someone wants to achieve, sometimes an entire life is not enough...
alra1975 5 years ago
I haven't but good old JSW has been playing since his 14th year.
ZachariasHildebrandt 5 years ago
Exactly, it depends from what someone wants to achieve... In Baroque era kids of fourteen years old were already virtuosos... And I'm not referring to the old legend by J.N.Forkel about Goldberg...
alra1975 5 years ago
In our days Tv, videogames, internet (if used aimlessly) and silly useless subjects distract kids from studying Music, Literature, Philosophy, History and true beautiful Great Art. I suppose this is the reason why great geniuses no more appear... J.S.Bach had nothing material, but made of Himself the greatest of Musical History...
alra1975 5 years ago
how many years have you been studying the organ to be that good?
organman1994 5 years ago
Alfred Hitchcock walking entrance and aplomb, together with a great Baroque performance, very, very good! I hope You record more, more and more DVDs, cool-chubby Mr. Whitely!
alra1975 5 years ago
Ein hervorragender Organist an einer wunderschönen und gut erhaltenen Barockorgel!
patti89 5 years ago
wow, what church is this? the camera work is excellent, and the organist as well.
kensingtonpalace 5 years ago
I've always been fascinated by how people could build tracker organs, its so intricate
DerOrgelmeister 5 years ago
For some people it probably makes it easier to play, I think the keys we have now are too big.
ZachariasHildebrandt 5 years ago
The keys on the Woodstock organ in Fotheringhay Church, Northamptonshire ar shorter and they are so much easier to play. This organist is excellent, i think i saw him conducting at York Minster. More please!!!
organisttom123 5 years ago
Beautiful music. I love the color, carvings, and inlay on the keyboards - but the keys seem shorter and wider than our keys today? does that make it difficult to play?
StevenGSR 5 years ago
wonderfull ,a joy.
daco54 5 years ago
Excellent!!
Catholicguy 5 years ago
Another masterpiece! Thank you.
Green4321 5 years ago