Cool down my friend, there is room for all of us and science and religion don't have to be in conflict. If you define 'God' as the ultimate reality or fundamental level of the universe, its not so mystical and you don't need to be on the attack.
Would it not be better if god was not defined at all, and then we could focus on learning about the world and universe? Religion holds humanity back and I don't think there is room for it. Religion seeks out the gaps in science and knowledge and sits there for a while until that gap is understood. Religion is therefore the lack of knowledge which can also be defined as ignorance.
Religious types make assertions without evidence and then go wishy washy on definitions (e.g. your god definition).
What is morality was part of the universe? Science proves that all in the universe is interconnected through quantum entanglement - and religion tells us what that means in terms of morality through the Golden Rule. As such science and religion are complimentary.
I don't believe we need religion to address issues of morality. Religion and morality have a very chequered history. A lot of what I've read in the bible (instructions from "god") would not be tolerated in society. I can provide references if required.
Morals differ from society to society and time to time. The zeitgiest shifts.
Suggesting religion deals with why and science tells us how is an attempt to make religious doctrine immune from examination.
If science holds all the answers then you have just created a new religion: Scientism - which as fundamentalism based on science is no better than religious fundamentalism.
I never said science holds all the answers. To be make my point clear: science DOES NOT hold all the answers. That's why I said "science can attempt to explain...."
Heaven and Hell must be some diverse places..to accomodate all of the unique species on this earth..and highly probable species of extraterrestrial origin
Interesting stuff. I for one don't really buy it, but I'm a skeptic and a pessimist.
I just do not understand the idea of a "spiritual body." As most sane individuals will tell you, we develop our personalities, likes, dislikes. perceptions, etc. through our brain, not our "mind."
I'm not trying to poke a hole in your logic or research, I would just like to understand what could possibly make up the "soul."
Two questions:
Where is hell?
What if I don't want to go to heaven or hell when I die?
The problem is that science cannot explain where consciousness or e.g. the information in DNA comes from. Both consciousness and the DNA info is far more complex than biology or matter. Classical science using Darwins theory says that consciousness evolved out of matter but the problem with this theory is that something cannot evolve out of nothing. Its kind of like the Big Bang - something had to come before. In my view, consciousness is the soul and would make up the spiritual body.
A: I think 'hell' is an outer dimension separated from the essence or fundamental level of the universe. Quantum physics predicts 7 extra dimensions and hell could be one of them.
Science also tell us that nothing can become nothing and that all things are transformed. I guess if you don't want to go anywhere you could always come back, but you can also co-create heaven as you would like it to be - your private paradise.
naturally heaven and hell must be planets that exist in a different universe of a more complex dimensional structure that we currently experience... so if they are planets then there must be more than a polar choice...so you'll find a compatible planet(Heaven world,Hell world,Neutral world etc..) : )
There is no description of a socalled place called heaven mentioned in the bible. Also paradise is not heaven, that word is of persian origin and means a garden not heaven. Also Jesus was a jew not a christian. So where did christianiy come from? Living on a round planet which way is up in reguards to this socalled place called heaven?
Then how do you understand a muslim with a pre-conception of his own islamic religion see Jesus and thus converting himself into a christian beleif ? I have other testimonies with hindus and also atheistes who saw Christ as saviour.
My understanding is that Christ arose from the dead with his physical body and what a man sees apart from the risen Lord would be no other than demons disguised into some other religious prophets.
As I say "there is absolutely no evidence to support fundamentalism." We are always able to find one case or one story to fit our pre-exciting belief.
However, one or two cases do not match up to the study of many thousands of NDEs which show that meetings with religious figures happen rarely. Some studies have found that only about 12% meet religious figures and more people, 38% meet relatives or loved ones, the a majority in most studies, + 70%, meet what it called "the Light."
But if you have these cases you mention you are welcome to send them to me. Then I can send you some cross cultural studies which show that out of 11 Buddhist NDEs, 10 cases meet the Lord Buddha or the Buddhist Lord of Death, Yama. Also a Hindu study that shows Hindu characteristics. I also have Aboriginal NDEs with the four directions and "dancing horses" - all characteristic that are very culture specific. When you look at all this there is little doubt about cultural conditioning.
ok, but the most astonishing thing is ...; Buddist NDE meet Christ ! Hindus NDE meet Christ and as you said, 70 % meet the light ?
Well Jesus said, In John 8:12 " I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life".
I come from India and know the indian religions, now, Buddha said to his disciples, "i am not the light and in me there is no truth. I myself seeketh the truth and i invite my follower to do as such ... Seek the truth :"
The 11 Buddhist NDEs can be found under "Eleven Thai NDEs" and if you google "Near death experiences of Hindus" you will find the Lord Buddha, the Buddhist Lord of Death, Yama and the Hundi Lord of Death, Yamraj.
There is NO Christ or Jesus to be found in any of them, and I have seen or heard of no such cases within credible NDE research. I only hear these claims from religious fundamentalists but so far none have been able to produce proof of any sort other than quotes from the bible.
Jesus also said in Matthew 13:10-11 Why do you speak to them (the people) in parables? And Jesus answers: To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
What the buddha means in: "I myself seeketh the truth and i invite my follower to do as such ... Seek the truth." Is that you should think for yourself rather than following him blindly or fall into religious fundamentalism. It not a competition between Jesus and Buddha, but YOU and TRUTH.
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Scientism??? what a fucking idiot.
IamAsi94 6 months ago
Just because science cannot explain something at the moment, doesn't mean "god did it"!!
LAnonHubbard 2 years ago
Cool down my friend, there is room for all of us and science and religion don't have to be in conflict. If you define 'God' as the ultimate reality or fundamental level of the universe, its not so mystical and you don't need to be on the attack.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
Would it not be better if god was not defined at all, and then we could focus on learning about the world and universe? Religion holds humanity back and I don't think there is room for it. Religion seeks out the gaps in science and knowledge and sits there for a while until that gap is understood. Religion is therefore the lack of knowledge which can also be defined as ignorance.
Religious types make assertions without evidence and then go wishy washy on definitions (e.g. your god definition).
LAnonHubbard 2 years ago
What is morality was part of the universe? Science proves that all in the universe is interconnected through quantum entanglement - and religion tells us what that means in terms of morality through the Golden Rule. As such science and religion are complimentary.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
I don't believe we need religion to address issues of morality. Religion and morality have a very chequered history. A lot of what I've read in the bible (instructions from "god") would not be tolerated in society. I can provide references if required.
Morals differ from society to society and time to time. The zeitgiest shifts.
Suggesting religion deals with why and science tells us how is an attempt to make religious doctrine immune from examination.
Science can attempt to explain why too.
LAnonHubbard 2 years ago
If science holds all the answers then you have just created a new religion: Scientism - which as fundamentalism based on science is no better than religious fundamentalism.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
I never said science holds all the answers. To be make my point clear: science DOES NOT hold all the answers. That's why I said "science can attempt to explain...."
LAnonHubbard 2 years ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom He didn't say science "holds all the answers", you did.
Read his last sentence.
And scientific process eschews faith as being an unreliable/unsound "method", you can't have religion without faith.
Keithj1000 1 year ago
Heaven and Hell must be some diverse places..to accomodate all of the unique species on this earth..and highly probable species of extraterrestrial origin
platano214 2 years ago
Interesting stuff. I for one don't really buy it, but I'm a skeptic and a pessimist.
I just do not understand the idea of a "spiritual body." As most sane individuals will tell you, we develop our personalities, likes, dislikes. perceptions, etc. through our brain, not our "mind."
I'm not trying to poke a hole in your logic or research, I would just like to understand what could possibly make up the "soul."
Two questions:
Where is hell?
What if I don't want to go to heaven or hell when I die?
waxton48 2 years ago
The problem is that science cannot explain where consciousness or e.g. the information in DNA comes from. Both consciousness and the DNA info is far more complex than biology or matter. Classical science using Darwins theory says that consciousness evolved out of matter but the problem with this theory is that something cannot evolve out of nothing. Its kind of like the Big Bang - something had to come before. In my view, consciousness is the soul and would make up the spiritual body.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
A: I think 'hell' is an outer dimension separated from the essence or fundamental level of the universe. Quantum physics predicts 7 extra dimensions and hell could be one of them.
Science also tell us that nothing can become nothing and that all things are transformed. I guess if you don't want to go anywhere you could always come back, but you can also co-create heaven as you would like it to be - your private paradise.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
Thats why there are ghost which are people who refuse to go to heaven or hell or people who die before finishing up all there buisness here on earth!
jessietr100 2 years ago
naturally heaven and hell must be planets that exist in a different universe of a more complex dimensional structure that we currently experience... so if they are planets then there must be more than a polar choice...so you'll find a compatible planet(Heaven world,Hell world,Neutral world etc..) : )
platano214 2 years ago
There is no description of a socalled place called heaven mentioned in the bible. Also paradise is not heaven, that word is of persian origin and means a garden not heaven. Also Jesus was a jew not a christian. So where did christianiy come from? Living on a round planet which way is up in reguards to this socalled place called heaven?
jaes123411 2 years ago
Agree up to a certain point.
Then how do you understand a muslim with a pre-conception of his own islamic religion see Jesus and thus converting himself into a christian beleif ? I have other testimonies with hindus and also atheistes who saw Christ as saviour.
My understanding is that Christ arose from the dead with his physical body and what a man sees apart from the risen Lord would be no other than demons disguised into some other religious prophets.
philippeclement 2 years ago
As I say "there is absolutely no evidence to support fundamentalism." We are always able to find one case or one story to fit our pre-exciting belief.
However, one or two cases do not match up to the study of many thousands of NDEs which show that meetings with religious figures happen rarely. Some studies have found that only about 12% meet religious figures and more people, 38% meet relatives or loved ones, the a majority in most studies, + 70%, meet what it called "the Light."
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
But if you have these cases you mention you are welcome to send them to me. Then I can send you some cross cultural studies which show that out of 11 Buddhist NDEs, 10 cases meet the Lord Buddha or the Buddhist Lord of Death, Yama. Also a Hindu study that shows Hindu characteristics. I also have Aboriginal NDEs with the four directions and "dancing horses" - all characteristic that are very culture specific. When you look at all this there is little doubt about cultural conditioning.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
ok, but the most astonishing thing is ...; Buddist NDE meet Christ ! Hindus NDE meet Christ and as you said, 70 % meet the light ?
Well Jesus said, In John 8:12 " I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life".
I come from India and know the indian religions, now, Buddha said to his disciples, "i am not the light and in me there is no truth. I myself seeketh the truth and i invite my follower to do as such ... Seek the truth :"
philippeclement 2 years ago
The 11 Buddhist NDEs can be found under "Eleven Thai NDEs" and if you google "Near death experiences of Hindus" you will find the Lord Buddha, the Buddhist Lord of Death, Yama and the Hundi Lord of Death, Yamraj.
There is NO Christ or Jesus to be found in any of them, and I have seen or heard of no such cases within credible NDE research. I only hear these claims from religious fundamentalists but so far none have been able to produce proof of any sort other than quotes from the bible.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
Jesus also said in Matthew 13:10-11 Why do you speak to them (the people) in parables? And Jesus answers: To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
What the buddha means in: "I myself seeketh the truth and i invite my follower to do as such ... Seek the truth." Is that you should think for yourself rather than following him blindly or fall into religious fundamentalism. It not a competition between Jesus and Buddha, but YOU and TRUTH.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 2 years ago
Wow, read what you just said.
Do you seriously believe in demons? I mean, really?
If so, you're off your fucking rocker.
waxton48 2 years ago