Bleh, why do these videos so often seem to have such a terribly long delay between the audio and video portions? If it really that hard to get things within a hundred milliseconds or so?
@jjjooommm222 I dl'd a different hitchens video and tried to sync the audio to the video and it was incredibly difficult. Either the video was running at different speed then the audio or different camera angles had different audio delays. Not saying that's the case here but in my attempts it was pretty challenging to keep everything synced.
let me say that Hitch saying the END RESULT of creationists arguements is that God would CARE if you ate pork or clipped the end of your dick or clitoris is absolutely absurd!! That is NOT the reason those things were commanded. God did those things as ways of showing a rather primitive and far less inteligent mankind in the physical things pertaining to the spiritual relationship with him. I do not expect hitchens to get these points because quite frankly because they are spirtually discerned
All of Hitchens arguements are always based on a lack of understanding why God does what he does and he goes on to try and form in the audiences mind HIS rational for what he thinks creationists want you to believe about God. Being way off base, the rest of his argument is pointless because it goes on from that premise. Argueing from an Improper premise always causes Hitchens to look a bit better because he ridicules creationists from this improper perspective & the people are non the wiser
@moroney1 I can not undermine his arguement to you by saying God is real. But it is so undermined to me because I know God is real. I think its completely foolish of man to think that we just ended up here by chance. I think that takes more faith to believe that then it does to believe God does not Exist. You do realize that the very foundations of thought are different do you not? That is why you can not see what I see. I see your foundation and I think it falls short and I see where
@moroney1 Thats not WHY I say hitchens arguement is crap. I say his Arguement is crapola because he does not understand even the slightest reason God had for doing or allowing the things he did in the Biblical writtings.He gets motive and reason wrong consistenly throughout his assessment of what God Cares for,does,and why he does them.He is constantly telling people WHAT THEY MUST BELIEVE to be a Christain While not only being wrong but misleading about what God requires. ON PURPOSE!
@moroney1 Pt2 I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to set all religions to bed as false, you must argue them by themselves. You CANNOT lump them all together because in the very reality that there is ONLY ONE GOD, Everyone CANNOT be right. So if you lump all these religions together as a whole and proclaim you have proved they contradict themselves as evidence that there is no God then OF COURSE absurdedly you have proved your point though Unwisely!
He KNOWS he is leading people to wrongly! He knows if he lumps them altogether its a no win for any person of faith because all lumped together then false ones make the one real one look foolish because you are lumping nonsense in with truth. I can argue Christianity and bring a very convincing arguement. But not if someone charges My GOD with Muslim traditions or false Christain claims and then claim to observers that you GOT to believe this or that to believe my way!
@moroney1 Pt234 he consistenly in his banter charges jays God as doing things the Muslim God claims and of course Jay doesnt even argue him down on those points because he is pushing an agenda as well. I dont think Jays arguement was compelling though it was decent. I dont think Atheists listened to jay at all. I think they just assumed he is stupid. Which is funny since he is well known in his field he is certainly not clasified by anyone as stupid but Hitchens followers.
@moroney1 LOL. It is juvenille for you to think that I said Hitchens arguements against God is refuted because I know God is real. I said hitchens arguements are based on his LACK of Knowledge about the Motives of the the truth of the bible. He lumps all religions together and is very misinformed about Biblical realities. And he looks through modernized spectacles. He consistently says you HAVE TO BELIEVE X amount of CRAP HE MADE UP to believe in Christainity!! And He MAKES IT UP!
And I am NOT saying I am better then anyone because of that. I only see because God has opened my eyes to other possibilities in regards to the same information you see as concrete that evolution is fact. I am not saying the FINDINGS are not real or skewed. I say that trying to link some of the claims FOR evolution to evolution is based on Loose linking. I hold to a very high standard of logical thinking when trying to sort through this material.
@moroney1 If you are just going to make pointless comments about things I said because what I said was too much for you to comprehend or you dont have the desire to read it dont try to come off like what I said was babble or not relevant. Your response wreaks of laziness.That one statement bothers you so much that you could only comment on that one statement.My statements intention was to say that these so called facts in evolution are based on Loose Evidence that dont prove evolution
@moroney1 You know another thing about what you said I said, I NEVER said I undermine hitchens arguement against God because God is real. Funny how you can take that away from what I said. Either you are just assuming I said that or you didnt read what I wrote. I think its a bit of both. I said HItchens arguements are false because HE does not Get the Intention of the writtings and assumes that he knows what the text is written about. And he DOES NOT KNOW AT ALL! He is WRONG!!
@dannylucilla no contradiction and no confusion. Only is to you since you are not called to understand it. That is the beauty of Gods revelation to man. Only the called will see it. I have been told not to cast pearls before swine. I find it hard to believe that means to not explain these things to you the best I can. I do think it means however, once you ridicule and ignore that you are ridiculing and ignoring God and that is when I stop because THEN YOU MAKE YOURSELF the swine in that analogy
@abeeftec how do you know there is a god? and the the bible isn't man made? were you there when god spoke inside the heads of those people, or when jesus is supposed to have been born? and would you, having been born anywhere other than a christian country, be a christian now? you, as are all other religious fanatics, are the product of the indoctrination the place you were born just so happens to have. it is no coincidence you are a christian living in a christian part of the world. programmed.
@dannylucilla Because I was there when he spoke inside my own head. I didnt need to hear what he said to other people. YOU, as are all other atheists are ignorant of the truth. I am not the product of any indoctrination because I dont follow any CHURCH BUILDING. I read the Bible and I pray to God. You are the one programmed by the world system. I would rather be programmed by God then programmed by simply minded man.
@abeeftec - how do you know i'm programmed by the world system? maybe i don't even think i belong to the concept of a nation. isn't religion a major part of that system? and may i kindly suggest that truth cannot be truth if it has an opposite...belief, voices and learned doctrines are projections of the subjective mind. had you never heard the word god, or read the bible, you wouldn't be uttering the words you speak in this very moment. you heard of god, and your imagination kicked in...
@dannylucilla May I remind you that those in Isreal who WROTE the Bible did not have a Bible to refer back to as you accuse me of. So please tell me, How is it possible that these Learned Doctrines are just projections of the subjective mind if the one being Objective here is ME and the one being subjective is you? Your mind is Subject to mans way of thinking. I have the very Object of GOD as my reference point. And You heard there IS no God and your Imagination kicked in!!
@abeeftec from that you could say that anything derived from the thoughts of man is not truth and is subjective. there are no thoughts beyond the minds of men, for example, the universe does not think. the mind of mankind has invented everything anti natural in existence. nature being that which grows and flourishes of itself without the aid of human intervention...such is nature and the universe. the thoughts of men could never grasp how it all transpired....thus gods were invented.
@dannylucilla From that YOU derive that mans thoughts are subjective and I agree. Man without God is very subjective. And your statement about the Thoughts of men never being able to grasp how it all transpired is absolutely ridiculous since that is exactly what man is trying to do right now! But GOD has made us to know since the very beginning. you are right in one thing though, Man has invented many gods. But there logically can only be ONE. And he did show himself.
@abeeftec - at the time gods were invented by man, it was the only explanation we could come up with with our limited knowledge and technology. gods were born from the minds of men in the infancy of our species. today we have a better idea about how the universe came to be, and the explanation found in the bible is way off the mark. daylight before suns/stars, for example, is not possible.
@dannylucilla It was not the only explantion they could come up with. Thats a good excuse though that high ranking atheists have caused many to believe. You are correct when you say that gods were born in the minds of men. But where you are wrong is why that happened. Every man has a vaccum in his life that he realizes at one point or another and that place is FOR God. Yet man wants to make up his own to worship which is where false religion comes from.
@abeeftec mankind is a fearful species, isn't he? he fears tomorrow, what other people think about him, and he fears death. he can't imagine what it would be like to not exist at all. you don't have to listen to any atheists or theists to understand that. the vacuum you speak of exists, true, but what makes you think that it only exists so that god may fill it? the vacuum could be fear itself, and fear is another fabrication of thought. and there is no need to worship anything at all.
@dannylucilla What makes me think the vacumm can only be filled by God? Because temporal things can never fill it. They always leave man needing more of whatever it is he is going after. Drugs, Sex , you name it, you will want more once you get a taste. Now answer me this, Why is it that everything man deems Good or Pleasurable,has large consequenses attached to repeated usage? You cant name me one taboo that hasnt turned into a nightmare in mans life and left him wanting MORE
@dannylucilla What in your life do you put before everything. That is your God. Its that simple. Everyone will have that one thing they put before everything in life. I dont need to go on with this because Just by that alone if you think about it you know there is something you will not compromise on for nothing. Everyone has that thing.
@frilansspion Continue to have sex outside of marriage constantly with different people and there is the consequence of getting a disease. You name it there is a consequence for it.
@abeeftec whos mentioned being unfaithful. and no, disease isnt a necessary consequence even so. (what about the feelings of your wife though?) of course there is destructive or negative behavior (such as reliance on drugs as you mentioned) I dont see how that gets you to assume god anyhow. as for the challenge - I like drawing, and I do it every day. cant get enough. whats the consequence?
@frilansspion Well of course there is no consequence for sex inside of a relationship. If you dont think diseases is a necessary consequence of having sex outside of a relationship then you are just unrealistic and blind about all the different things you can QUICKLY catch.
And so to you reliance upon drugs is destructive, Since you of course dont use them you can conceeed.
Drawing is not a sin so get out with the nonsense. I said anything that brings PLEASURE.. Dont be foolish
@abeeftec yeah I heard you and "pleasure" isnt defined anywhere (except in your head) as "sin". drawing does give me pleasure - its fun. faithful sex is also pleasurable. Im not sure what point youre trying to make but this is a silly way to go about it. find a better way to phrase your ideas. bye now.
@frilansspion I NEVER said Faithful sex would give you ANYTHING but pleasure. And what I said had nothing to do with PLEASURES ALL OF THEM. It had to do with the selfish pleasures of man. Any of them. You choose one of those types and all of them Have consequences. You know, we are a bit strapped for room to type here. Sometimes you most likley have to try and use your head. Its obvious I was not speaking about anything that gives YOU pleasure but anything that.. Well. out of room
@abeeftec AGAIN.. I dont think for one second that you dont know what I am talking about and that you have no ability inside your head to separate DRAWING from drinking and premarital sex versus faithful relationship sex. I do think however that you are purposefully being difficult. Some people find picking thier toenails pleasureable but I dont think they would think I was speaking about THAT having a detriment to their health. You are just trying to be difficult
@abeeftec I did not say what I said to just sabotage your point or undermine you. I just dont "buy" it, if you will. youre talking about some emptiness or lack of purpose that people try to fill in different ways, some with bad and thoughtless behavior. I get that. I meant that that hole can be filled by non-destructive pursuits. theres nothing silly or trivial about that. you say "every man" I dont think thats true. finding meaning in life is important but god is a non-sequitur
@frilansspion You dont have to BUY IT. But the fact is, Those things God calls SIN which man finds is a PLEASURE God is trying to Take away from man, You will find in every Instance Those things have consequences. Now, You dont have to BUY That if you dont want to but the fact is that is what I said from the Beginning and that is what I still maintain. DRAWING is NOT SIN and Men do not Think that GOD says NO to DRAWING. So your attempt at making it sound ludacris has FAILED.
@frilansspion Pt2 to me, Without God, there is absolutly NOTHING that lasts. Everything is temporal and fleeting. Not one thing can you say in a million years with your mindset that ANYTHING you do will even matter. And so what? Do you want to leave a world nice for future generations while you cease to exist? I find it funny that Actors want to get there name on a list so no one forgets them! As if they will never be forgotten! Now tell me, Is there any LASTING purpose in your view?
@abeeftec firstly, what I want to be true doesnt matter as to the nature of truth. I agree that nothing I can do will matter in an absolute sense, but I dont on the other hand know what it would entail TO absolutely matter, and I dont see how it would even if god would exist. if he created everything arbitrarily and judges everything arbitrarily, what meaning could there possibly be except trying to "win" his acceptance? how can heaven be "perfect" and its decided youll be happy there forever?
@frilansspion pt2. Im not saying I have a better answer or a better idea. what I mean to say that that whole concept doesnt seem any more meaningful. it just involves some positive superlatives that arent necessarily applicable. if we are "just" matter come to life, have created art on our own, developed love on our own, found some means of understanding the pinball game that we re in, that fact doesnt make everything meaningless. the natural world is beautiful and immense on its own terms
@frilansspion pt3. and I just want to add that when I talk about maybe no absolute purpose, i DONT mean to say I think thats a license to do whatever I like. (if you were thinking of starting up on that) as a part of life with the capacity to emulate the feelings and thought of others, its of course important to get along with each other, we are (for the most part) sympathetic social beings, and that all depends on consideration and equality. and as a whole we do live on after death.
@frilansspion You say Arbitrarily But that is far from the truth. We Dont WIN his acceptance. Here you display what the bible speaks about when it says, The ways of Man, Or when God says, My ways are not your ways, when you say "WIN" his acceptance. That is what the Major, Christains included, religions of this world worship when it is Man centered. Works. The TRUTH is that those who truly are his ARE accepted already! MOST,even so called Christains, Do not Get this nor understand
@abeeftec Part2. I say there are two types of Christains. Those who SAY they are Christains and those who KNOW they are.
The ones who SAY they are are constantly trying to win Gods Favor on the outside as a display to others.FAKE!! Then there are those who KNOW they are Christains and know they have Gods favor, And the Spirit has REALLY effected change in their lives. They are truly grateful! The former type is no different then any other false religion of the world!
@abeeftec yeah I used words like "win" and "arbitrarily" but you get the general drift. I dont think we re any closer to "meaning" anyways. any higher meaning is still beyond us, if there is any. why would god create things to judge them? what would "goodness" mean to a solitary and omnipotent being? its just as arbitrary as "we re just matter.".
@frilansspion God did not create things TO judge them. You fail to see that God exists always. He says what Goes in his eternity. Not mere man who doesnt have all the facts. We like to think we do. But we dont. He does. And are we just matter? Well you just said that was arbitrary! Wow so you do believe there is something more to us then just the matter that makes us up? Then you sir, believe in Godly precepts! The atheist does not believe anymore then that and CANNOT!
two things. 1) you cant say that you know that we have a purpose and then say that it cant be known other than to god himself. right? you just assume it then. 2) I didnt say that its arbitrary whether there is something more to us than matter. (in terms of abstract concepts of course there is,) technically "atheists" CAN believe in anything except in god. ok? stop pushing that point. youre thinking of naturalism or materialism maybe?
@abeeftec I can only assure you that I didnt bring that up to make it sound ludicrous, I was just trying to distill down what you were saying, it seemed vague. honestly. okay, things that are ultimately bad for people are called sin. I can go along with that. the bible doesnt comment on a lot of things though, if you reason or feel that something is "bad" that isnt in there, how is that different from an atheistical moral judgement? and I assume there are things in the bible that you reject?
@frilansspion Well you did make the statement that YES ONLY WHAT GOD SAYS IS SIN. And that is true. That is all I was speaking about from the Beginning! I specifically said that those things which the Bible calls Sin, Man thinks God is trying to say everything pleasurable is sin to take away mans pleasures.And I was simply making the statment that those things which you think are PLEASUREABLE in that regard ALL have consequences for abusing them. And its true
@frilansspion Pt2 How do you know that what you call your Atheistical moral judgements are nothing more then Learned behavoirs from a mostly Christain influenced Societal upbringing? There is nothing in the Bible I reject that Is PROPERLY understood. one problem hitch always had was he consistently showed that his understanding of the Bible was very limited looking through modern spectacles. And he often showed his perception of what was being shown by God to be other then what it was
@frilansspion Pt3 But you would have never known that his perception was wrong about things he speaks on in regards to biblical matters because you dont know what is being taught by the Bible. Instead of asking people who do know what its teaching they trust the opposition is correct. I dont know about you but I never go to the enemy of a matter to find out the truth about it. Yet atheists only listen to Atheists regarding the Bible.
@abeeftec I see what you mean about people picking out things that look bad and attack those only. I dont think theres any MORE point to ask a christian what it means, as you are all determined that it IS correct in some way and its just a problem of finding out how. theres no neutral ground really...Ill just say that I try to be aware of both sides. there ARE some bits in there, for example things that god say that are very hard to fit onto an all-loving and non-tribal god though.
@frilansspion Its not really fair for you to say in effect that I am not thinking critically in these matters. If you knew me OR better yet, if you were a Christain who I have asked what their take is on things seeming contradictory in the Bible and I got an Unsatisfactory answer that either caused another contradiction in the Bible somewhere else OR that did not reconcile the contradiction I was ruthless on that person. Because I really wanted answers. And I mean REAL answers
@abeeftec hehe well, that we dont know each other and that Im not a christian is kind of the basis of this conversation. I also think itd be easier if you were an atheist.
anyways, so youve basically made sense of the bible to the point where you have no doubt, how it was written, the different versions, and what parts / in what way it is the "word of god". yeah? fine.
@frilansspion I noticed you say"In my Opinion."It is not just My opinion. He really does misinterpret the bible if you have studied and know it enough to see it.
He thinks that to be a Christain you have got to beleive that GOD CARES if you Mutliate your genitals. It says NOTHING of the sort in the Bible at all. He doesnt even know that it is not a matter of CARE. It was a matter of two issues. One health and the other is what the Physical represents Spiritually. He doesnt get it
@abeeftec christians dont circumcise though so whats your angle? would it matter? hitchens point is that most people put their babies under the knife just because its ritual, not because they have the babies best interests in mind. female circumcision hasnt been shown to have any health benefits btw. do you think muslims and jews just do it for medical reasons, for wellbeing only? I can only think that they DO believe that god cares if they have it done or not. but Ill ask people
@abeeftec well how do you know that your morals from god isnt developed from evolution without god? we ll just have to make an educated guess, both of us. I didnt have a christian upbringing, but heard about it in school etc. and I rejected some of the ideas of goodness in the bible stories early, and found other "good"s thats not in there. can we agree that the bible needs to be interpreted and can go either way? who can do that and claim it the word of god?
@frilansspion How do I know? because Morals were nill before the law was handed down. I do not agree that the Bible can go either way but I will agree that Man cannot even interpret the Bible properly from the wrong foundation of beliefs. Without God he cannot know what the Bible says as pertains to God message.He can only stand from the posture of saying that he is working towards gods favor instead of those who KNow they already have it! & it doesnt cause them to do bad things!
those who really have Gods spirit do not molest children.They do not do horrible things to other people.They are not dishonest for personal gain because they have truly died to self and are being led in a way that those things would not happen if they truly believed. Most people dont know what RECIEVING something you cannot see even means! NO where in the bible does it say that we need to RECIEVE Jesus yet so many are misled into thinking that it does say that because they dont read!!
@abeeftec well there's one person's opinion. It would be different if you asked a jew, or muslim, or hindu, or budhist, thenit would be quite diffrent. so don't be narcisistic and require everyone to believe in the same religion as ou just because you yourself believe it.
@awesomeskier12345 You can call it whatever you want to but the fact remains for ME personally that I searched them all out. I did NOT just accept Christianity without a fight. The biggest mistake Atheists make when debating is to think that the Religions of the world actually Honor the REAL GOD! Even the Christain religion that man has made to his own liking making people like you think God doesnt have an angry streak when the Bible says God DOES!
You have got to understand something here, I used to be tossed around in my head by all sorts of doctrine. It wasnt until I realized I stand or fall before God and he can lead me to Himself if he exists. Once I realized that I then had to prove to myself what the truth was. And even that wasnt enough! I had to Want the Truth and be able to accept things i dont like about God in order to let go of Bias that hinders understanding. I believe God honored that
What I have noticed about Atheists who say they used to be Christains is that they believe they followed God for the right reasons. And most of them were raised in a Church!! They left because no one has been able to answer their questions. And those questions are in fact the very same questions I had yet I did not accept any answer and I did not accept contradictions. I have found there are No Meaningful Contradictions in the Bible that would disprove it.
There are Satisfactory answers to the things in the Bible that would appear contradictory once you understand how to read the Bible. And the Bible tells you HOW to read it. The biggest mistake I have watched Hitchens make on a regular Basis is in this area of misinterpreting the Bible. Now you can say, " Thats your Interpretation" all you want to but that is a cop out! I have noticed that in every case, those people who want TRUTH above all else, Cannot deny it
What I mean by they CANNOT DENY It. Is when the truth is spoken they do not reject it, They may have some false doctrine and I am sure there is still some within me! I am not so high minded to think I have it all! But God only requires BIBLICALLY that you walk up to the light that you DO HAVE. He does NOT require man to live a perfect life EVEN though the Bible says BE YE PERFECT! I can explain how this works but not in this setting. And I can PROVE it with BIBLE
You may say that i cannnot use the Bible to prove the Bible, I agree with that in some respects. Not in all. When dealing with WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS and its message you CAN use the Bible and MUST use the Bible to understand its meaning! So how can the Bible say BE YE PERFECT yet not Require Perfection? To the novice or to the Atheist that seems a contradiction! But its NOT! It is all in how REDEMPTION works! You stay perfect By Confession! 1 John 1:9 - IF WE...
Now, If you read 1 john 1:9 You will see that if we Confess our Sins he is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from ALL unrighteousness.
Note that sins is Plural not Singular. Sin singular is what we are by nature. and Plural is a specific act of sin. Now, If we confess that we are sinners we can only do that by Gods Leading! But once that happens we confess EACH Sin and we are cleansed. But also we CANNOT use that as a License to sin! And the Beleiver cannot
Further, How can one continue to feel bad for something he has done before God and Continue to live in it any longer? He may continue to take part in those sins against God but he will not be able to confess them over and over and not feel some sense of Guilt for hurting something he loves. Namely, Jesus Sacrifice for Him! Those who continue to do horrible things to other people are NOT Christains and CANNOT be!! Selfishness flees when one is truly repentant
Now there is one thing I just showed you that seems contradictory, That maybe you didnt even notice it before, That is NOT contradictory at all and there is a good explanation for it! One can be Judicially Made PERFECT By God(Be Ye Perfect) then means= Acceptance of Christ and God Granting you Repentance! Man cannot repent on his own. God must do it and it is Gods choice who will receive the Benifit of Repentance and who will NOT. Sound fair?
Most Christains would try to have you believe that Asking Jesus into your heart IS Repentance and it is NOT! Saying the Prayer is NOT Salvation and never has been! It is not a single place in the Bible! So why do Churches Do this? Charles Finney is the reason! Is it right? NOPE! But will they change? Probably not! And they wont change because they really are not Honoring God and allowing God to grow their Church! They rely on Tactics of Man and deny God
They are a perfect example of a group of people who take away from the Bible and when you explain to them Biblically using the Bible that they are wrong for the Superficial alter call they refuse to change because they are not in this to Honor God! Those types of So called Christains are NOT christians at all! They are people following Mans traditions and dont care about truth over their comfort zone!
The Bible shows they are not lead by God but by men
I am sure there are many things from your past steeped in the type of Self Righteous Christainity that leads so many away. I am saying you still have self righteousness! And when you hear that the Bible says Lean not to your own Understanding you heard someone like HItchens say that The Bible doesnt want you to think which is the exact opposite of what the Bible is telling man to do when it says lean not to your own understanding!
If people like Hitchens cared to be honest and would continue with what the Bible says AFTER it says "Lean not to your own Understanding" He would not be misleading so many people to think the Bible says something it does not say. But he is against it and believes what he is doing is right so he doesnt care if he is lying or using faulty tactics to try and win favor of people towards his faulty views. And he sounds "Cool" to people to be able to Parody God.
@abeeftec so you basically "know" that you and a select few interpret it correctly and everyone else is wrong? this is exactly my problem with the whole thing - all believers say that. you know youre right because you just know it, the next guy says the same thing. not much of a base of discussion. much easier to start out saying that morals should be discussed just from consideration of other beings. and there were morals before the bible, some animals have some morals.
@abeeftec you said "Why is it that everything man deems Good or Pleasurable,has large consequenses attached to repeated usage?" maybe youre not as clear and lucid to others as you are in your head, have that thought never hit you? Im saying the world is more complicated than the ten commandments, not that theyre all wrong. theres nothing in there about drugs, tv-watching, slavery, animal torture, etc.
@frilansspion Thats quite possible. I may not many times explain myself as I should. But questions instead of Accusation come from those who want to know. Accusations come from those who believe strongly against what you were trying to say. The reason? Because they want to know why you believe the way you do. And they must try to prove you wrong. If you had asked the question of what do I mean I would have attempted to make it clear. But I may have messed up again too!
@abeeftec well I meant my first post as a question not an accusation, and looking back at it now I still think thats what it looks like. I could have phrased it more softly perhaps seeing as you were in the middle of an argument with someone else and all. well anyways. Im sorry if it seemed to harsh.
writing in capitals does not make your position any more persuasive in fact it is an indicator that you lack any real intellectual content in your argument
@totallyzachary Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. BLAH BLAH BLAH.. Because your smart scooter! Keep up the good work! The more you insult people the smarter you look!
But we both know thats what you are attempting to do now dont we!
hitchens would lose if he was to Debate someone such as HUGH ROSS. Because Hugh Ross wouldnt allow him to keep using insulting word replacement games with words such as MIRACLE, OR GOD. Anyone can replace words with words that make it sound foolish!! And hitchens doing that is just taking low blows to get people on his side that ALREADY ARE ON HIS SIDE!! Hugh Ross is an Astro Physisist doesnt PROVE God to atheists but shows WHY GOD IS THE HIGHEST POSSIBILITY which that is all this debate is!!
@theawakener7 That is one of the best comments I have heard on this forum!!! It SAYS IT ALL!! his Agenda and his attitude is as he has been slighted by FALSE CHRISTIANITY so ALL OF A SUDDEN ALL RELIGION IS WRONG AND THERE IS NO GOD because if the christian faith he grew up with(FALSE CHRISTIANITY)slighted him HOW CAN ANY OF IT BE TRUE!!!! Gods true people have been judged by the deeds of False Christianity from the beginning of the USA and WAY LONGER.
The thing so mesmerizing about Hitchens is his wide usage of various documentation by scientists, authors, etc. while Christians seem to use only one: the Bible... which was also written by people. That is why I can't understand why Christianity dismisses science evolution. Oh well... ignorance is bliss until they have to miss the Super Bowl because they have to go to church that Sunday :p
@nikitaldy01 they dont? most catholics fully support evolution the pope even said " it show him to be even more creative than thought before" or something like that. These creationist wackos are still a minority thankfully
Who can prove 100,000 years and if you can please show me where it is proven. Where can you prove men have lived 100,000 years on this planet. And I mean prove beyond a shadow of doubt.
@tiamonke And tell me you KNOW this technique is accurate!! Do you know any date stamped over 5000 years over human existance to say that carbon dating is accurate that far back? No you dont nor can you know. All you know is what others have told you... And I do not believe carbon dating is accurate to billions of years. Thats like saying because I site my gun in at 1000 yards and its accurate at 2000 also that is must also be accurate at 5000 yards even though I have no way of knowing.
@Pomme843 Oh yeah, and how come there are still monkeys if evolution is true? Just kidding, though there are people who come up with those kind of arguments. I just heard it a few days ago.
@siegfriedfreud1984 Well its a good arguement because If we came from them why are they still here? OH I get it.... So are one celled organisms... So what you are saying is that Its ok that PARTS of the evolutionary theory are still here!!!! So tell me.... Why is there no ONE CELLED ORGANISMS IN THE PROCESS OF BECOMING 2 cells? OR becoming more human? OR IN BETWEEN one of the So called Steps in Evolution??? Because Evolution as it is now known is BULLCRAP!!
@Pomme843 It is NOT the strongest theory around. It is just what you have been persuaded on.
That is all. The fact is that you cannot prove that creationism is not true. If you could there would be no argument. Which is of course why evolutionists try to now say we dont have to include origins to say evolutiuon is true. You just take out whatever doesnt fit to prove this point and you dont see that. Without ORIGINS Evolution is nothing more then some random mutations
@abeeftec "You just take out whatever doesnt fit" -Like what? What doesn't fit the theory of evolution?
The fact that there is a controversy about natural evolution, doesn't mean that there's reason for there to be. Creationism always relies on mystisism and ignorance, and cannot survive without religios, often Christian, bias.
Many tenets of creationism can be thoroughly disproved, particularly the idea that the age of the Earth is to be found in the Bible, and not through carbon dating etc.
@Pomme843 ORLY! Lets just remove Creationism from the equasion.... Now tell me.... HOW do you get from a One celled organism to a fully grown human? And if humans have only been on the earth for 100,000 years IN THEIR CURRENT FORM... Because it has been said many times that mutations happen over millions of years OR even thousands, which we know not to be true because 2000 years ago MAN LOOKS THE SAME!
So how do you rectify these issues? Just IGNORE THEN RIGHT?
OH NO thats right you dont ignore them... You put them in their little can and you put man now in his little can and say WE DONT KNOW.. which the reality of it is this... IF man has changed in the past 100,000 years why has he not changed at all in the past 6000??? and if he has been in this current form for the past how ever many years... WHAT was he before that?
And this is the kicker,HOW did mankind grow a penis and a vagina and decide with the brain they had to grow also to be smart enough to make the move that they would stop reproducing the exact same self ONE CELL and start reproducing using another one celled organism?OR if they had grown to millions of cells by that point WHEN did the penis grow? and the Vagina? WHEN? And if it happend over thousands of years. HOW IN THE WORLD DID they reproduce with HALF a sex Organ Or did it just appear 1 day?
The whole theory falls to the ground in that alone!! and YES I am talking about Origins which you are so easily persuaded that its ok NOT to think about that when dealing with evolution when you CANNOT ESCAPE dealing with it when you are talking about WHERE we came from!!
it takes a lot of ignorance and lack of thinking for yourself to believe that happened in any way like that!! And if Man was always MAN and we strip the 1 celled theory then we still have the same problem!!!
@abeeftec 1.1 "HOW do you get from a One celled organism to a fully grown human?" Evolution.
"And if humans have only been on the earth for 100,000 years IN THEIR CURRENT FORM... Because it has been said many times that mutations happen over millions of years OR even thousands, which we know not to be true because 2000 years ago MAN LOOKS THE SAME!"
I don't know what you're sayin' - do you mean that evolution is not a true phenomenon because man looked the same 2000 years ago?
@Pomme843 1.2 "So how do you rectify these issues? Just IGNORE THEN RIGHT?"
No. Scientists do not ignore these questions. At all times, there are people working to find how evolution, and abiogenesis, works. I have never heard of a biologist that ignores these questions. But, most scientists think that it is better to admit that they don't know how it happened, than to blame the fabricated deities of underdeveloped sand-people. Evolution is also acknowledged by people like William Lane Craig.
@Pomme843 I never built a house from the ROOF DOWN!!!!!! And that is what you are telling me they are doing!!!!! You say they KNOW where we are now and they assume that we got here through changes and one day long ago we (sinking foundation right here)were a one celled organism that came from NOWHERE!!
Would you PLEASE stop waiting on other people to tell you what to THINK POMME!!!! Do you not realize if you would JUST THINK IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE HAPPENED TO SAYING WE JUST DONT KNOW??
@Pomme843 How do you explain astro physisits such as HUGH ROSS who give reasons to believe? ARE HIS ARGUEMENTS SILLY??? And I would LOVE to see HITCHENS DEBATE HIM!!! Because I am sorry but HUGH ROSS Understands FAR MORE then hitchens does about the things hitchens claims to debate. The only thing hitchens is good at is making something seem foolish by interjecting NONSENSE into it. By replacing words with silly words such as UNICORNS for GOD and using a STERN VOICE to deliver it!! I DO THAT!!
@Pomme843 Its very SIMPLE thinking to say EVOLUTION. I didnt ask for the MEANS or what your Opinion is.. I am asking you RATIONALLY, How can you go from a one celled organism to a fully grown man over millions of years when man only lived on earth in his current state for 10,000 how did he procreate when we didnt have sex organs and how long did it take to devolop them.
Under YOUR extimation it takes Hundreds of thousands of years.. I am asking you how is it POSSIBLE without man dying off.
@Pomme843 As you Atheists LOVE to say..... SAYING "EVOLUTION" ONLY BEGINS THE QUESTION.
please describe what you mean by EVOLUTION. Because if what you mean is man came from a one celled organism then you must also explain how it could POSSIBLY have changed from one cell to a fully grown man. I am only asking for a Rational POSSIBILITY. EXPLAINED thoroughly. I am not even asking for exacts. And you cant even give one way it POSSIBLY happened. SAYING EVOLUTION HAPPENED isnt EXPLAINING anything!
@abeeftec One cell to fully grown human? Are you ignorant or a poe? The answer is 9 months in a womb and 16-18 years out of it (the time out will depend on your definition of fully grown human).
Also, given the facts about how reproduction happens, and the environment, evolution by natural selection is logically sound, before we even TRY to back it up with observed evidence of its occurence. It would be a downright miracle if it DIDN'T happen.
@bignastydragon That first part is true but it happening in 9 months has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about and one cell to a Full grown man as far as BIRTH Goes IS a miracle! In the sense that you are describing it then what you are saying is the first man to walk TOTALLY EVOLVED in 9 months without a Womb BUT in Womb like conditions out of the water? and he is ever evolving since?/ That sounds like total nonsense. And you call that backing up evolution against my argument? NONSENSE
@abeeftec I know that's not what you meant, but it would answer the question how you worded it. Go to TalkOrigins to see the long answer about how we evolved from single celled organisms, 500 character posts can never do it justice and I don't think you'll just accept the answer 'evolution'.
Birth isn't a miracle, it's perfectly natural and happens very regularly. As to the modern survival rate of human birth, that's down to medical science, not miracles.
@Pomme843 The age of the earth is NOT found in Carbon Dating though Carbon dating may be able to tell you the age of things ON the earth. And as far as I am concerned, The bible deals with AGE OF MAN. NOT age of the earth. It is clear from the bible that what God did in relation to MAN was done in 7 Days. What it does NOT say is how long there is between GOD CREATING THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, which is first, and then the Days. And no one can claim to know from reading it.
@glassbrain Can ANYONE Debate without being a smart ass and throwing Insulting comments CONSTANTLY.
It is really getting old. Shesh you all make me want to cuss you out over and over again and then get called nuts which you already do so imagine if I just said FU! And then went on! That would contribute about as much as you are from your comments. AND NO ONE SAYS THE CREATION IS ONLY 2000 YEARS OLD SO PLEASE SAY SOMETHING THAT TEACHES YOUR SIDE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SOUND COOL.
@peteymandem Wow I am a hick retard as opposed to you who brings nothing but an Insult to this instead of anything real because you really dont have anything real to contribute so to make yourself feel better you insult. Typical of one who has no answers... You better just read instead of trying to comment. You make a perfect arguement for there being a real problem with your side.. Which of course you accuse my side of often for insulting you if we dont have an answer yet thats what you DO!!
@peteymandem You can keep saying that but I do not necessarily beleive as you think I do. I believe there HAS to be a way to rectify scientific stance and Creationism. YET everyone thinks EVOLUTION is the reason creationism falls to the ground. And if you look above this at the arguement I am having with Pomme843 You will see WHY I stand where I do that evolution is a farce. I DO believe that humans can mutate but NOT in the same ignorant way you do.
Read above and then tell me why I am OFF for thinking the way I do. AND if you keep running around saying I am a creationist when you dont know what I am then you are making yourself a bigger fool for not explaining your position but just agreeing with the air is what you are doing. because you cannot show even good reason for why you believe the way you do. EVOLUTION WITHOUT ORIGINS IS NONSENSE!!!! But since you can prove Mutations happen you accept the lie you heard since childhood
Do you really think that because Creationism has been proved unsubstantiated in a court of law that means that what you were taught as a child, you were taught without an agenda?? ORIGINS USED TO BE SYSTEMATIC WITH EVOLUTION BUT IT WAS REMOVED SO THAT EVOLUTION BASED ON MUTATIONS COULD BE CALLED TRUTH. But if you think about it long enough you realize NO PENIS can GROW IN A DAY.
and since these mutations happen over THOUSANDS of years the human race would have died off once it could not 1 cell reproduce anymore waiting for sexual organs to show up!! There is NO WAY a penis just appears in ONE mutation!!! And if you believe that a man who is born with 4 fingers is US IN THE PAST and a man born with 6 fingers is US in the future then you really are putting a lot of faith in nonsene. Because what about when two people are joinedtogether at birth? Is that ALSO FUTURE US?
@abeeftec evolution is not the reason creationism fails. it is the complete lack of evidence, carbon dating etc. your argument seems to be on the origin of life, that is a seperate theory. if you believe in mutation you believe in evolution. you also seem to believe man hasn't changed at all in the last 2000 years but you are wrong on that two, and your evolution of the penis theory is ridiculous and i use that in its literal sense, it is worthy of ridicule
@peteymandem The PENIS is a THEORY, I am not even thinking in THEORY.. This is what is POSSIBLE. You just really dont get that there is no freaken way a Penis can grow on a body that is not really man until some day there is a man but before he procreated with the penis he used to just multiply by metamorphoseus!!!! THAT IS PATHETIC!!! Because somewhere between being a one celled organism that only logical next step from there is a TWO celled organism.. Then a THREE until you have cells!!
Then more and more and more... UNtil you have WHAT??? A FOOT?? OR a little tiny man??? WHEN DOES A FREAKEN GROUP OF CELLS BECOME SOMETHING WITHOUT ALREADY BEING THAT SOMETHING???
OR from one thing to ANOTHER??? OH was it butterflylike??? Did he go into a cocoon a group of cells and then come out a tadpole? and then do it again to become another thing and then another and again another!! Until one day he grew a NEO CORTEX and Was found within himself WISEST of all BEASTS! And so He WAS MAN!!!
@abeeftec NOTHING TO SAY TO THIS COMMENT??? STILL NO ONE BRINGS ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE ON YOUR SIDE OTHER THEN TO SAY ...... YOU LOSE or HITCHENS IS A SMART GUY!!
That is the extent of ANY of your arguements. And you bring NOTHING to the table but that.
@peteymandem You dont see that the natural Progression of ONE CELL,that can only reproduce itself is that it EVOLVE INTO TWO CELLS?And then eventually as its growing more and more cells there is a change in time somwhere where the GROUP OF CELLS IS REPRODUCING THE OLD WAY to USING HUMAN SEXUAL ORGANS?PLEASE tell me just one good way that could have happend using times LENGTHS of time.Because seriously you have a real problem when that group of cells that reproduces only itself has to use organ
@abeeftec no scientist has ever claimed that the penis came about in one go, you do not have an argument. the reason you have a problem with evolution is because you don't understand it.
@peteymandem YOU ARE MAKING MY ARGUMENT FOR ME!!!! You are Correct they dont!! And SO TELL ME, When does it CEASE To be NO PENIS and then BECOME ONE??? With One cell growing at the pelvic region of the Penisless man who up until this point had to procreate by OSMOSSIS!!! But at the same time THAT SAME GOD CALLED CHANCE had to give him a brain so he would know to stop procreating by recreating only a mock image of itself and must now find a FEMALE group of cells with one cell of a vagina
....And he will have to TELL HER HE KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS ONE CELL AND IF THEY DONT THEY WILL DIE OFF AS A SPECIES BECAUSE THEY CAN NO LONGER PROCREATE BY OSMOSSIS and MUST use their ONE CELLED SEX ORGANS!!!!
Hey are you starting to even get the point yet?? You still are going to let scientists think for you and blind you to the fact that there is NO FREAKEN WAY IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT COULD HAPPEN UNLESS THERE WAS A GOD TO DO IT BECAUSE IF IT WERE UP TO PHYSICS AND CHANCE THERE IS NO DAMN WAY THE ONE CELL REPRODUCES ANYTHING ELSE BUT ITSELF. So please, think before you say what you heard other people say. Because I can tell you are not getting what i am saying at all. Its pretty bad too.
@peteymandem Haha. You are funny. First, it is irrelevant that man is the first or millionth species to have a penis. THAT has no bearing on the debate. And I get tired of you people telling me that but you dont post your definition of what it means ever. And you hurl about how I dont know about it. It is taught in schools people!! give me a break. That is stuff EVERYONE gets taught. And I KNOW it is Agenda Based that they dropped ORIGINS from EVOLUTION to make it fact based on MUTATIONS
@peteymandem I never even suggested that. You haven't even the most basic grasp of understanding what you read. I NEVER said man was the first species to have a penis you moron
@abeeftec osmossis is not reproduction, you haven't even the slightest grasp of evolution. at what point does a person become old? seriously answer the question it may seem irrelevant but the answer will help you understand evolution.
@peteymandem Thats the second time you say I dont have the slightest Grasp while OFFERING NOTHING in regards to it. And what does a person getting old have to do with anything? And the answer has nothing to do with man going ALL THE WAY from 1 CELL to a human. The reproduction is TOTALY different and in since man lives only 70 80 years he could not have EVOLVED in thousands of years because he would have died off while having no way to reproduce. Unless you are saying there is more then 1 way?
@abeeftec Just adding that I have NO GRASP of evolution DOESNT EXPLAIN WHAT I AM ASKING!!! And I am not saying The one celled creature had NO PENIS and then he REPRODUCED WITH ONE in ONE SHOT. What I am saying is that there is NO WAY it can happen in ONE GO OR A MILLION GOES!!! What you are saying is that the ONE CELL KNOWS WHAT IT WILL BECOME SOME DAY which sounds to me like PLANNING. Like A CERTAIN COURSE OF EVENTS WHICH IS CONTRARY TO EVERYTHING HAPPENING BY CHANCE.
@abeeftec and i quote 'With One cell growing at the pelvic region of the Penisless man who up until this point had to procreate by OSMOSSIS!!!' you assume that the theory of evolution says that man had no penis and then got a penis. no, an animal had a penis it evolved into us. 'since man lives only 70 80 years he could not have EVOLVED in thousands of years because he would have died off while having no way to reproduce.' that is the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard.
@peteymandem OSMOSSIS WAS MY WAY OF BEING JUST AS RIDICULOUS AS YOUR SIDE USING UNICORN IN PLACE OF GOD!! Dont act like you can be as SNIDE as you want but then when I am you are going to act as if that is what I REALLY MEANT!
You people are prima donnas that dont even think for yourself. When you can explain your views then get into the arguement! Just saying,"Yer Stupit Abeeftec" Doesnt SAY ANYTHING!!! And saying I dont understand IS NO SIDE OF AN ARGUEMENT!! YOU OFFER NOTHING
@peteymandem Thats a stupid point to even try to make because I didnt make the assumption that it happened in one go! My point is NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TOOK there was ONE second when there was a change from reproducing ONLY ITSELF(the one cell but millions of them at this point) to using our current method of reproduction. And PLEASE tell me how that could be possible?
And I possibly understand it better then you do! And that IS the typical answer of someone who cannot explain their position!!
@abeeftec you say this 'I didnt make the assumption that it happened in one go' and then you say this 'there was ONE second when there was a change from reproducing ONLY ITSELF' You have completely failed and contradicted yourself within one comment. you know nothing of evolution. it did not suddenly switch in one second
@peteymandem Please bring something worthy to this conversation. I did NOT contradict myself. You didnt read clearly. The first was speaking about Going from ONE CELL THAT CAN ONLY REPRODUCE ITSELF to a HUMAN who needs TWO PEOPLE and TWO SEXUAL ORGANS TO REPRODUCE. Speaking about ONE GO was in reference to CELLS GROWING A ONE CELLED PENIS all the while STILL being able to reproduce ALL BY ITSELF, You know, the group of cells? Because that is HOW they were and the PENIS is HOW we do.
Bleh, why do these videos so often seem to have such a terribly long delay between the audio and video portions? If it really that hard to get things within a hundred milliseconds or so?
jjjooommm222 1 month ago
@jjjooommm222 I dl'd a different hitchens video and tried to sync the audio to the video and it was incredibly difficult. Either the video was running at different speed then the audio or different camera angles had different audio delays. Not saying that's the case here but in my attempts it was pretty challenging to keep everything synced.
bionikspoon 1 week ago
let me say that Hitch saying the END RESULT of creationists arguements is that God would CARE if you ate pork or clipped the end of your dick or clitoris is absolutely absurd!! That is NOT the reason those things were commanded. God did those things as ways of showing a rather primitive and far less inteligent mankind in the physical things pertaining to the spiritual relationship with him. I do not expect hitchens to get these points because quite frankly because they are spirtually discerned
abeeftec 2 months ago
Pt 2
All of Hitchens arguements are always based on a lack of understanding why God does what he does and he goes on to try and form in the audiences mind HIS rational for what he thinks creationists want you to believe about God. Being way off base, the rest of his argument is pointless because it goes on from that premise. Argueing from an Improper premise always causes Hitchens to look a bit better because he ridicules creationists from this improper perspective & the people are non the wiser
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec You cant undermine Hitchens argument against God by saying God is real, thats completely circuluar
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 I can not undermine his arguement to you by saying God is real. But it is so undermined to me because I know God is real. I think its completely foolish of man to think that we just ended up here by chance. I think that takes more faith to believe that then it does to believe God does not Exist. You do realize that the very foundations of thought are different do you not? That is why you can not see what I see. I see your foundation and I think it falls short and I see where
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec Again saying Hitchens argument against God is refuted because you already know God is real is juvenile
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 Thats not WHY I say hitchens arguement is crap. I say his Arguement is crapola because he does not understand even the slightest reason God had for doing or allowing the things he did in the Biblical writtings.He gets motive and reason wrong consistenly throughout his assessment of what God Cares for,does,and why he does them.He is constantly telling people WHAT THEY MUST BELIEVE to be a Christain While not only being wrong but misleading about what God requires. ON PURPOSE!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 Pt2 I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to set all religions to bed as false, you must argue them by themselves. You CANNOT lump them all together because in the very reality that there is ONLY ONE GOD, Everyone CANNOT be right. So if you lump all these religions together as a whole and proclaim you have proved they contradict themselves as evidence that there is no God then OF COURSE absurdedly you have proved your point though Unwisely!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 Pt23
He KNOWS he is leading people to wrongly! He knows if he lumps them altogether its a no win for any person of faith because all lumped together then false ones make the one real one look foolish because you are lumping nonsense in with truth. I can argue Christianity and bring a very convincing arguement. But not if someone charges My GOD with Muslim traditions or false Christain claims and then claim to observers that you GOT to believe this or that to believe my way!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 Pt234 he consistenly in his banter charges jays God as doing things the Muslim God claims and of course Jay doesnt even argue him down on those points because he is pushing an agenda as well. I dont think Jays arguement was compelling though it was decent. I dont think Atheists listened to jay at all. I think they just assumed he is stupid. Which is funny since he is well known in his field he is certainly not clasified by anyone as stupid but Hitchens followers.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 LOL. It is juvenille for you to think that I said Hitchens arguements against God is refuted because I know God is real. I said hitchens arguements are based on his LACK of Knowledge about the Motives of the the truth of the bible. He lumps all religions together and is very misinformed about Biblical realities. And he looks through modernized spectacles. He consistently says you HAVE TO BELIEVE X amount of CRAP HE MADE UP to believe in Christainity!! And He MAKES IT UP!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 Pt2
And I am NOT saying I am better then anyone because of that. I only see because God has opened my eyes to other possibilities in regards to the same information you see as concrete that evolution is fact. I am not saying the FINDINGS are not real or skewed. I say that trying to link some of the claims FOR evolution to evolution is based on Loose linking. I hold to a very high standard of logical thinking when trying to sort through this material.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec ''God has opened my eyes to other possibilities'' ... sigh ...
You didnt need to babble for five comments worth of white noise
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 If you are just going to make pointless comments about things I said because what I said was too much for you to comprehend or you dont have the desire to read it dont try to come off like what I said was babble or not relevant. Your response wreaks of laziness.That one statement bothers you so much that you could only comment on that one statement.My statements intention was to say that these so called facts in evolution are based on Loose Evidence that dont prove evolution
abeeftec 2 months ago
@moroney1 You know another thing about what you said I said, I NEVER said I undermine hitchens arguement against God because God is real. Funny how you can take that away from what I said. Either you are just assuming I said that or you didnt read what I wrote. I think its a bit of both. I said HItchens arguements are false because HE does not Get the Intention of the writtings and assumes that he knows what the text is written about. And he DOES NOT KNOW AT ALL! He is WRONG!!
abeeftec 2 months ago
Hey wanna laugh? click the link "Atheist's most feared question!"
WhimsicalPlatypus 2 months ago
Comment removed
dannylucilla 5 months ago 4
@dannylucilla no contradiction and no confusion. Only is to you since you are not called to understand it. That is the beauty of Gods revelation to man. Only the called will see it. I have been told not to cast pearls before swine. I find it hard to believe that means to not explain these things to you the best I can. I do think it means however, once you ridicule and ignore that you are ridiculing and ignoring God and that is when I stop because THEN YOU MAKE YOURSELF the swine in that analogy
abeeftec 2 months ago
@dannylucilla Part 2
Maybe you are called though to understand it some day. That part I do not know.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec how do you know there is a god? and the the bible isn't man made? were you there when god spoke inside the heads of those people, or when jesus is supposed to have been born? and would you, having been born anywhere other than a christian country, be a christian now? you, as are all other religious fanatics, are the product of the indoctrination the place you were born just so happens to have. it is no coincidence you are a christian living in a christian part of the world. programmed.
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla Because I was there when he spoke inside my own head. I didnt need to hear what he said to other people. YOU, as are all other atheists are ignorant of the truth. I am not the product of any indoctrination because I dont follow any CHURCH BUILDING. I read the Bible and I pray to God. You are the one programmed by the world system. I would rather be programmed by God then programmed by simply minded man.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec - how do you know i'm programmed by the world system? maybe i don't even think i belong to the concept of a nation. isn't religion a major part of that system? and may i kindly suggest that truth cannot be truth if it has an opposite...belief, voices and learned doctrines are projections of the subjective mind. had you never heard the word god, or read the bible, you wouldn't be uttering the words you speak in this very moment. you heard of god, and your imagination kicked in...
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla May I remind you that those in Isreal who WROTE the Bible did not have a Bible to refer back to as you accuse me of. So please tell me, How is it possible that these Learned Doctrines are just projections of the subjective mind if the one being Objective here is ME and the one being subjective is you? Your mind is Subject to mans way of thinking. I have the very Object of GOD as my reference point. And You heard there IS no God and your Imagination kicked in!!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec from that you could say that anything derived from the thoughts of man is not truth and is subjective. there are no thoughts beyond the minds of men, for example, the universe does not think. the mind of mankind has invented everything anti natural in existence. nature being that which grows and flourishes of itself without the aid of human intervention...such is nature and the universe. the thoughts of men could never grasp how it all transpired....thus gods were invented.
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla From that YOU derive that mans thoughts are subjective and I agree. Man without God is very subjective. And your statement about the Thoughts of men never being able to grasp how it all transpired is absolutely ridiculous since that is exactly what man is trying to do right now! But GOD has made us to know since the very beginning. you are right in one thing though, Man has invented many gods. But there logically can only be ONE. And he did show himself.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec - at the time gods were invented by man, it was the only explanation we could come up with with our limited knowledge and technology. gods were born from the minds of men in the infancy of our species. today we have a better idea about how the universe came to be, and the explanation found in the bible is way off the mark. daylight before suns/stars, for example, is not possible.
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla It was not the only explantion they could come up with. Thats a good excuse though that high ranking atheists have caused many to believe. You are correct when you say that gods were born in the minds of men. But where you are wrong is why that happened. Every man has a vaccum in his life that he realizes at one point or another and that place is FOR God. Yet man wants to make up his own to worship which is where false religion comes from.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec mankind is a fearful species, isn't he? he fears tomorrow, what other people think about him, and he fears death. he can't imagine what it would be like to not exist at all. you don't have to listen to any atheists or theists to understand that. the vacuum you speak of exists, true, but what makes you think that it only exists so that god may fill it? the vacuum could be fear itself, and fear is another fabrication of thought. and there is no need to worship anything at all.
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla What makes me think the vacumm can only be filled by God? Because temporal things can never fill it. They always leave man needing more of whatever it is he is going after. Drugs, Sex , you name it, you will want more once you get a taste. Now answer me this, Why is it that everything man deems Good or Pleasurable,has large consequenses attached to repeated usage? You cant name me one taboo that hasnt turned into a nightmare in mans life and left him wanting MORE
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec - i've done all of those things and i don't need or depend on them at all. and i don't fill my vacuum with gods, either.
dannylucilla 2 months ago
@dannylucilla What in your life do you put before everything. That is your God. Its that simple. Everyone will have that one thing they put before everything in life. I dont need to go on with this because Just by that alone if you think about it you know there is something you will not compromise on for nothing. Everyone has that thing.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec youre saying sex is a "taboo" and its "repeated use" must turn peoples life into nightmares? what on earth do you base that on?
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion Continue to have sex outside of marriage constantly with different people and there is the consequence of getting a disease. You name it there is a consequence for it.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec whos mentioned being unfaithful. and no, disease isnt a necessary consequence even so. (what about the feelings of your wife though?) of course there is destructive or negative behavior (such as reliance on drugs as you mentioned) I dont see how that gets you to assume god anyhow. as for the challenge - I like drawing, and I do it every day. cant get enough. whats the consequence?
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion Well of course there is no consequence for sex inside of a relationship. If you dont think diseases is a necessary consequence of having sex outside of a relationship then you are just unrealistic and blind about all the different things you can QUICKLY catch.
And so to you reliance upon drugs is destructive, Since you of course dont use them you can conceeed.
Drawing is not a sin so get out with the nonsense. I said anything that brings PLEASURE.. Dont be foolish
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec yeah I heard you and "pleasure" isnt defined anywhere (except in your head) as "sin". drawing does give me pleasure - its fun. faithful sex is also pleasurable. Im not sure what point youre trying to make but this is a silly way to go about it. find a better way to phrase your ideas. bye now.
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion I NEVER said Faithful sex would give you ANYTHING but pleasure. And what I said had nothing to do with PLEASURES ALL OF THEM. It had to do with the selfish pleasures of man. Any of them. You choose one of those types and all of them Have consequences. You know, we are a bit strapped for room to type here. Sometimes you most likley have to try and use your head. Its obvious I was not speaking about anything that gives YOU pleasure but anything that.. Well. out of room
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec AGAIN.. I dont think for one second that you dont know what I am talking about and that you have no ability inside your head to separate DRAWING from drinking and premarital sex versus faithful relationship sex. I do think however that you are purposefully being difficult. Some people find picking thier toenails pleasureable but I dont think they would think I was speaking about THAT having a detriment to their health. You are just trying to be difficult
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec I did not say what I said to just sabotage your point or undermine you. I just dont "buy" it, if you will. youre talking about some emptiness or lack of purpose that people try to fill in different ways, some with bad and thoughtless behavior. I get that. I meant that that hole can be filled by non-destructive pursuits. theres nothing silly or trivial about that. you say "every man" I dont think thats true. finding meaning in life is important but god is a non-sequitur
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion You dont have to BUY IT. But the fact is, Those things God calls SIN which man finds is a PLEASURE God is trying to Take away from man, You will find in every Instance Those things have consequences. Now, You dont have to BUY That if you dont want to but the fact is that is what I said from the Beginning and that is what I still maintain. DRAWING is NOT SIN and Men do not Think that GOD says NO to DRAWING. So your attempt at making it sound ludacris has FAILED.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@frilansspion Pt2 to me, Without God, there is absolutly NOTHING that lasts. Everything is temporal and fleeting. Not one thing can you say in a million years with your mindset that ANYTHING you do will even matter. And so what? Do you want to leave a world nice for future generations while you cease to exist? I find it funny that Actors want to get there name on a list so no one forgets them! As if they will never be forgotten! Now tell me, Is there any LASTING purpose in your view?
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec firstly, what I want to be true doesnt matter as to the nature of truth. I agree that nothing I can do will matter in an absolute sense, but I dont on the other hand know what it would entail TO absolutely matter, and I dont see how it would even if god would exist. if he created everything arbitrarily and judges everything arbitrarily, what meaning could there possibly be except trying to "win" his acceptance? how can heaven be "perfect" and its decided youll be happy there forever?
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion pt2. Im not saying I have a better answer or a better idea. what I mean to say that that whole concept doesnt seem any more meaningful. it just involves some positive superlatives that arent necessarily applicable. if we are "just" matter come to life, have created art on our own, developed love on our own, found some means of understanding the pinball game that we re in, that fact doesnt make everything meaningless. the natural world is beautiful and immense on its own terms
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion pt3. and I just want to add that when I talk about maybe no absolute purpose, i DONT mean to say I think thats a license to do whatever I like. (if you were thinking of starting up on that) as a part of life with the capacity to emulate the feelings and thought of others, its of course important to get along with each other, we are (for the most part) sympathetic social beings, and that all depends on consideration and equality. and as a whole we do live on after death.
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion You say Arbitrarily But that is far from the truth. We Dont WIN his acceptance. Here you display what the bible speaks about when it says, The ways of Man, Or when God says, My ways are not your ways, when you say "WIN" his acceptance. That is what the Major, Christains included, religions of this world worship when it is Man centered. Works. The TRUTH is that those who truly are his ARE accepted already! MOST,even so called Christains, Do not Get this nor understand
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec Part2. I say there are two types of Christains. Those who SAY they are Christains and those who KNOW they are.
The ones who SAY they are are constantly trying to win Gods Favor on the outside as a display to others.FAKE!! Then there are those who KNOW they are Christains and know they have Gods favor, And the Spirit has REALLY effected change in their lives. They are truly grateful! The former type is no different then any other false religion of the world!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec yeah I used words like "win" and "arbitrarily" but you get the general drift. I dont think we re any closer to "meaning" anyways. any higher meaning is still beyond us, if there is any. why would god create things to judge them? what would "goodness" mean to a solitary and omnipotent being? its just as arbitrary as "we re just matter.".
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion God did not create things TO judge them. You fail to see that God exists always. He says what Goes in his eternity. Not mere man who doesnt have all the facts. We like to think we do. But we dont. He does. And are we just matter? Well you just said that was arbitrary! Wow so you do believe there is something more to us then just the matter that makes us up? Then you sir, believe in Godly precepts! The atheist does not believe anymore then that and CANNOT!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec hello happy new year!
two things. 1) you cant say that you know that we have a purpose and then say that it cant be known other than to god himself. right? you just assume it then. 2) I didnt say that its arbitrary whether there is something more to us than matter. (in terms of abstract concepts of course there is,) technically "atheists" CAN believe in anything except in god. ok? stop pushing that point. youre thinking of naturalism or materialism maybe?
frilansspion 1 month ago
@abeeftec I can only assure you that I didnt bring that up to make it sound ludicrous, I was just trying to distill down what you were saying, it seemed vague. honestly. okay, things that are ultimately bad for people are called sin. I can go along with that. the bible doesnt comment on a lot of things though, if you reason or feel that something is "bad" that isnt in there, how is that different from an atheistical moral judgement? and I assume there are things in the bible that you reject?
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion Well you did make the statement that YES ONLY WHAT GOD SAYS IS SIN. And that is true. That is all I was speaking about from the Beginning! I specifically said that those things which the Bible calls Sin, Man thinks God is trying to say everything pleasurable is sin to take away mans pleasures.And I was simply making the statment that those things which you think are PLEASUREABLE in that regard ALL have consequences for abusing them. And its true
abeeftec 2 months ago
@frilansspion Pt2 How do you know that what you call your Atheistical moral judgements are nothing more then Learned behavoirs from a mostly Christain influenced Societal upbringing? There is nothing in the Bible I reject that Is PROPERLY understood. one problem hitch always had was he consistently showed that his understanding of the Bible was very limited looking through modern spectacles. And he often showed his perception of what was being shown by God to be other then what it was
abeeftec 2 months ago
@frilansspion Pt3 But you would have never known that his perception was wrong about things he speaks on in regards to biblical matters because you dont know what is being taught by the Bible. Instead of asking people who do know what its teaching they trust the opposition is correct. I dont know about you but I never go to the enemy of a matter to find out the truth about it. Yet atheists only listen to Atheists regarding the Bible.
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec I see what you mean about people picking out things that look bad and attack those only. I dont think theres any MORE point to ask a christian what it means, as you are all determined that it IS correct in some way and its just a problem of finding out how. theres no neutral ground really...Ill just say that I try to be aware of both sides. there ARE some bits in there, for example things that god say that are very hard to fit onto an all-loving and non-tribal god though.
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion Its not really fair for you to say in effect that I am not thinking critically in these matters. If you knew me OR better yet, if you were a Christain who I have asked what their take is on things seeming contradictory in the Bible and I got an Unsatisfactory answer that either caused another contradiction in the Bible somewhere else OR that did not reconcile the contradiction I was ruthless on that person. Because I really wanted answers. And I mean REAL answers
abeeftec 1 month ago
@abeeftec hehe well, that we dont know each other and that Im not a christian is kind of the basis of this conversation. I also think itd be easier if you were an atheist.
anyways, so youve basically made sense of the bible to the point where you have no doubt, how it was written, the different versions, and what parts / in what way it is the "word of god". yeah? fine.
frilansspion 1 month ago
@abeeftec Im interesting to hear your take on some of those though, if you have examples of parts that are commonly misinterpreted in your opinion.
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion I noticed you say"In my Opinion."It is not just My opinion. He really does misinterpret the bible if you have studied and know it enough to see it.
He thinks that to be a Christain you have got to beleive that GOD CARES if you Mutliate your genitals. It says NOTHING of the sort in the Bible at all. He doesnt even know that it is not a matter of CARE. It was a matter of two issues. One health and the other is what the Physical represents Spiritually. He doesnt get it
abeeftec 1 month ago
@abeeftec christians dont circumcise though so whats your angle? would it matter? hitchens point is that most people put their babies under the knife just because its ritual, not because they have the babies best interests in mind. female circumcision hasnt been shown to have any health benefits btw. do you think muslims and jews just do it for medical reasons, for wellbeing only? I can only think that they DO believe that god cares if they have it done or not. but Ill ask people
frilansspion 1 month ago
@abeeftec well how do you know that your morals from god isnt developed from evolution without god? we ll just have to make an educated guess, both of us. I didnt have a christian upbringing, but heard about it in school etc. and I rejected some of the ideas of goodness in the bible stories early, and found other "good"s thats not in there. can we agree that the bible needs to be interpreted and can go either way? who can do that and claim it the word of god?
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion How do I know? because Morals were nill before the law was handed down. I do not agree that the Bible can go either way but I will agree that Man cannot even interpret the Bible properly from the wrong foundation of beliefs. Without God he cannot know what the Bible says as pertains to God message.He can only stand from the posture of saying that he is working towards gods favor instead of those who KNow they already have it! & it doesnt cause them to do bad things!
abeeftec 2 months ago
those who really have Gods spirit do not molest children.They do not do horrible things to other people.They are not dishonest for personal gain because they have truly died to self and are being led in a way that those things would not happen if they truly believed. Most people dont know what RECIEVING something you cannot see even means! NO where in the bible does it say that we need to RECIEVE Jesus yet so many are misled into thinking that it does say that because they dont read!!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec well there's one person's opinion. It would be different if you asked a jew, or muslim, or hindu, or budhist, thenit would be quite diffrent. so don't be narcisistic and require everyone to believe in the same religion as ou just because you yourself believe it.
awesomeskier12345 2 days ago
@awesomeskier12345 You can call it whatever you want to but the fact remains for ME personally that I searched them all out. I did NOT just accept Christianity without a fight. The biggest mistake Atheists make when debating is to think that the Religions of the world actually Honor the REAL GOD! Even the Christain religion that man has made to his own liking making people like you think God doesnt have an angry streak when the Bible says God DOES!
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt2
You have got to understand something here, I used to be tossed around in my head by all sorts of doctrine. It wasnt until I realized I stand or fall before God and he can lead me to Himself if he exists. Once I realized that I then had to prove to myself what the truth was. And even that wasnt enough! I had to Want the Truth and be able to accept things i dont like about God in order to let go of Bias that hinders understanding. I believe God honored that
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt3
What I have noticed about Atheists who say they used to be Christains is that they believe they followed God for the right reasons. And most of them were raised in a Church!! They left because no one has been able to answer their questions. And those questions are in fact the very same questions I had yet I did not accept any answer and I did not accept contradictions. I have found there are No Meaningful Contradictions in the Bible that would disprove it.
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt4
There are Satisfactory answers to the things in the Bible that would appear contradictory once you understand how to read the Bible. And the Bible tells you HOW to read it. The biggest mistake I have watched Hitchens make on a regular Basis is in this area of misinterpreting the Bible. Now you can say, " Thats your Interpretation" all you want to but that is a cop out! I have noticed that in every case, those people who want TRUTH above all else, Cannot deny it
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt5
What I mean by they CANNOT DENY It. Is when the truth is spoken they do not reject it, They may have some false doctrine and I am sure there is still some within me! I am not so high minded to think I have it all! But God only requires BIBLICALLY that you walk up to the light that you DO HAVE. He does NOT require man to live a perfect life EVEN though the Bible says BE YE PERFECT! I can explain how this works but not in this setting. And I can PROVE it with BIBLE
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt6
You may say that i cannnot use the Bible to prove the Bible, I agree with that in some respects. Not in all. When dealing with WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS and its message you CAN use the Bible and MUST use the Bible to understand its meaning! So how can the Bible say BE YE PERFECT yet not Require Perfection? To the novice or to the Atheist that seems a contradiction! But its NOT! It is all in how REDEMPTION works! You stay perfect By Confession! 1 John 1:9 - IF WE...
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt7
Now, If you read 1 john 1:9 You will see that if we Confess our Sins he is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from ALL unrighteousness.
Note that sins is Plural not Singular. Sin singular is what we are by nature. and Plural is a specific act of sin. Now, If we confess that we are sinners we can only do that by Gods Leading! But once that happens we confess EACH Sin and we are cleansed. But also we CANNOT use that as a License to sin! And the Beleiver cannot
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt8
Further, How can one continue to feel bad for something he has done before God and Continue to live in it any longer? He may continue to take part in those sins against God but he will not be able to confess them over and over and not feel some sense of Guilt for hurting something he loves. Namely, Jesus Sacrifice for Him! Those who continue to do horrible things to other people are NOT Christains and CANNOT be!! Selfishness flees when one is truly repentant
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt9
Now there is one thing I just showed you that seems contradictory, That maybe you didnt even notice it before, That is NOT contradictory at all and there is a good explanation for it! One can be Judicially Made PERFECT By God(Be Ye Perfect) then means= Acceptance of Christ and God Granting you Repentance! Man cannot repent on his own. God must do it and it is Gods choice who will receive the Benifit of Repentance and who will NOT. Sound fair?
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt10
Most Christains would try to have you believe that Asking Jesus into your heart IS Repentance and it is NOT! Saying the Prayer is NOT Salvation and never has been! It is not a single place in the Bible! So why do Churches Do this? Charles Finney is the reason! Is it right? NOPE! But will they change? Probably not! And they wont change because they really are not Honoring God and allowing God to grow their Church! They rely on Tactics of Man and deny God
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt11
They are a perfect example of a group of people who take away from the Bible and when you explain to them Biblically using the Bible that they are wrong for the Superficial alter call they refuse to change because they are not in this to Honor God! Those types of So called Christains are NOT christians at all! They are people following Mans traditions and dont care about truth over their comfort zone!
The Bible shows they are not lead by God but by men
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt12
I am sure there are many things from your past steeped in the type of Self Righteous Christainity that leads so many away. I am saying you still have self righteousness! And when you hear that the Bible says Lean not to your own Understanding you heard someone like HItchens say that The Bible doesnt want you to think which is the exact opposite of what the Bible is telling man to do when it says lean not to your own understanding!
abeeftec 1 day ago
@awesomeskier12345 pt13
If people like Hitchens cared to be honest and would continue with what the Bible says AFTER it says "Lean not to your own Understanding" He would not be misleading so many people to think the Bible says something it does not say. But he is against it and believes what he is doing is right so he doesnt care if he is lying or using faulty tactics to try and win favor of people towards his faulty views. And he sounds "Cool" to people to be able to Parody God.
abeeftec 1 day ago
@abeeftec so you basically "know" that you and a select few interpret it correctly and everyone else is wrong? this is exactly my problem with the whole thing - all believers say that. you know youre right because you just know it, the next guy says the same thing. not much of a base of discussion. much easier to start out saying that morals should be discussed just from consideration of other beings. and there were morals before the bible, some animals have some morals.
frilansspion 1 month ago
@abeeftec you said "Why is it that everything man deems Good or Pleasurable,has large consequenses attached to repeated usage?" maybe youre not as clear and lucid to others as you are in your head, have that thought never hit you? Im saying the world is more complicated than the ten commandments, not that theyre all wrong. theres nothing in there about drugs, tv-watching, slavery, animal torture, etc.
frilansspion 2 months ago
@frilansspion Thats quite possible. I may not many times explain myself as I should. But questions instead of Accusation come from those who want to know. Accusations come from those who believe strongly against what you were trying to say. The reason? Because they want to know why you believe the way you do. And they must try to prove you wrong. If you had asked the question of what do I mean I would have attempted to make it clear. But I may have messed up again too!
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec well I meant my first post as a question not an accusation, and looking back at it now I still think thats what it looks like. I could have phrased it more softly perhaps seeing as you were in the middle of an argument with someone else and all. well anyways. Im sorry if it seemed to harsh.
frilansspion 2 months ago
writing in capitals does not make your position any more persuasive in fact it is an indicator that you lack any real intellectual content in your argument
totallyzachary 6 months ago 8
@totallyzachary Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. BLAH BLAH BLAH.. Because your smart scooter! Keep up the good work! The more you insult people the smarter you look!
But we both know thats what you are attempting to do now dont we!
abeeftec 2 months ago
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hitchens would lose if he was to Debate someone such as HUGH ROSS. Because Hugh Ross wouldnt allow him to keep using insulting word replacement games with words such as MIRACLE, OR GOD. Anyone can replace words with words that make it sound foolish!! And hitchens doing that is just taking low blows to get people on his side that ALREADY ARE ON HIS SIDE!! Hugh Ross is an Astro Physisist doesnt PROVE God to atheists but shows WHY GOD IS THE HIGHEST POSSIBILITY which that is all this debate is!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@theawakener7 That is one of the best comments I have heard on this forum!!! It SAYS IT ALL!! his Agenda and his attitude is as he has been slighted by FALSE CHRISTIANITY so ALL OF A SUDDEN ALL RELIGION IS WRONG AND THERE IS NO GOD because if the christian faith he grew up with(FALSE CHRISTIANITY)slighted him HOW CAN ANY OF IT BE TRUE!!!! Gods true people have been judged by the deeds of False Christianity from the beginning of the USA and WAY LONGER.
abeeftec 6 months ago
Thank you for posting this, pablonoriega89.
writersblock26 6 months ago
No one can know or prove if God exists.
No one can know or prove if God doesn't exist.
Therefore all religions and philosophy and pontifications about the subject are - in a sense - a useless exercise.
Simple logic.
SALESPRODUCTIONS 7 months ago
The thing so mesmerizing about Hitchens is his wide usage of various documentation by scientists, authors, etc. while Christians seem to use only one: the Bible... which was also written by people. That is why I can't understand why Christianity dismisses science evolution. Oh well... ignorance is bliss until they have to miss the Super Bowl because they have to go to church that Sunday :p
nikitaldy01 7 months ago
@nikitaldy01 they dont? most catholics fully support evolution the pope even said " it show him to be even more creative than thought before" or something like that. These creationist wackos are still a minority thankfully
TheMossad921 7 months ago
Christopher's crack about Nixon was SO worth watching this video!!!!
nikitaldy01 7 months ago
sketchy eye witness accounts, or 1000's of cross referenced scientific findings?
johnykoop 8 months ago 2
3:29 What's the Freudian slip?
Pomme843 9 months ago
@Pomme843 he said tycoon but what he meant to say was typhoon.
kickmeout1 8 months ago
@Pomme843 It's when you reveal something of yourself by saying one word when you meant to say another.
ciaracustard 8 months ago
@ciaracustard And what does the word "tycoon" reveal from the mind of Christiopher Hitchens? Thanks for your reply, by the way!
Pomme843 8 months ago
@Pomme843 In the context of his sentence, his left wing views.
ciaracustard 8 months ago
@ciaracustard Ah... thanks, I didn't see that.
Pomme843 8 months ago
Roughly 20,000 people didn't make it past the introduction.
AriloeuLaleelae 9 months ago
Ben Stein is a fucking retard.
lordofdawhopperz 9 months ago
What the fuck is Ben Stein even doing in the same room as Hitchens? He should be the door mat to every room hat Hitchens walks in to.
Resenbrink 9 months ago 6
Amen to that @Resenbrink
lordofdawhopperz 9 months ago
Who can prove 100,000 years and if you can please show me where it is proven. Where can you prove men have lived 100,000 years on this planet. And I mean prove beyond a shadow of doubt.
abeeftec 9 months ago
@abeeftec Scientists can using a technique called carbon dating, have you not heard of it?
tiamonke 9 months ago
@tiamonke And tell me you KNOW this technique is accurate!! Do you know any date stamped over 5000 years over human existance to say that carbon dating is accurate that far back? No you dont nor can you know. All you know is what others have told you... And I do not believe carbon dating is accurate to billions of years. Thats like saying because I site my gun in at 1000 yards and its accurate at 2000 also that is must also be accurate at 5000 yards even though I have no way of knowing.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec How do you prove anything beyond the shadow of a doubt? And what's the point? Evolution is by very far the strongest theory around.
Pomme843 9 months ago
@Pomme843 Oh yeah, and how come there are still monkeys if evolution is true? Just kidding, though there are people who come up with those kind of arguments. I just heard it a few days ago.
siegfriedfreud1984 9 months ago
@siegfriedfreud1984 Well its a good arguement because If we came from them why are they still here? OH I get it.... So are one celled organisms... So what you are saying is that Its ok that PARTS of the evolutionary theory are still here!!!! So tell me.... Why is there no ONE CELLED ORGANISMS IN THE PROCESS OF BECOMING 2 cells? OR becoming more human? OR IN BETWEEN one of the So called Steps in Evolution??? Because Evolution as it is now known is BULLCRAP!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@Pomme843 It is NOT the strongest theory around. It is just what you have been persuaded on.
That is all. The fact is that you cannot prove that creationism is not true. If you could there would be no argument. Which is of course why evolutionists try to now say we dont have to include origins to say evolutiuon is true. You just take out whatever doesnt fit to prove this point and you dont see that. Without ORIGINS Evolution is nothing more then some random mutations
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec "You just take out whatever doesnt fit" -Like what? What doesn't fit the theory of evolution?
The fact that there is a controversy about natural evolution, doesn't mean that there's reason for there to be. Creationism always relies on mystisism and ignorance, and cannot survive without religios, often Christian, bias.
Many tenets of creationism can be thoroughly disproved, particularly the idea that the age of the Earth is to be found in the Bible, and not through carbon dating etc.
Pomme843 6 months ago
@Pomme843 ORLY! Lets just remove Creationism from the equasion.... Now tell me.... HOW do you get from a One celled organism to a fully grown human? And if humans have only been on the earth for 100,000 years IN THEIR CURRENT FORM... Because it has been said many times that mutations happen over millions of years OR even thousands, which we know not to be true because 2000 years ago MAN LOOKS THE SAME!
So how do you rectify these issues? Just IGNORE THEN RIGHT?
abeeftec 6 months ago
OH NO thats right you dont ignore them... You put them in their little can and you put man now in his little can and say WE DONT KNOW.. which the reality of it is this... IF man has changed in the past 100,000 years why has he not changed at all in the past 6000??? and if he has been in this current form for the past how ever many years... WHAT was he before that?
abeeftec 6 months ago
And this is the kicker,HOW did mankind grow a penis and a vagina and decide with the brain they had to grow also to be smart enough to make the move that they would stop reproducing the exact same self ONE CELL and start reproducing using another one celled organism?OR if they had grown to millions of cells by that point WHEN did the penis grow? and the Vagina? WHEN? And if it happend over thousands of years. HOW IN THE WORLD DID they reproduce with HALF a sex Organ Or did it just appear 1 day?
abeeftec 6 months ago
The whole theory falls to the ground in that alone!! and YES I am talking about Origins which you are so easily persuaded that its ok NOT to think about that when dealing with evolution when you CANNOT ESCAPE dealing with it when you are talking about WHERE we came from!!
it takes a lot of ignorance and lack of thinking for yourself to believe that happened in any way like that!! And if Man was always MAN and we strip the 1 celled theory then we still have the same problem!!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
To me???? THATS A BIGGER MIRACLE TO BELIEVE THEN UNICORNS IN THE SKY!!! Its SILLY!!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec 1.1 "HOW do you get from a One celled organism to a fully grown human?" Evolution.
"And if humans have only been on the earth for 100,000 years IN THEIR CURRENT FORM... Because it has been said many times that mutations happen over millions of years OR even thousands, which we know not to be true because 2000 years ago MAN LOOKS THE SAME!"
I don't know what you're sayin' - do you mean that evolution is not a true phenomenon because man looked the same 2000 years ago?
Pomme843 6 months ago
@Pomme843 1.2 "So how do you rectify these issues? Just IGNORE THEN RIGHT?"
No. Scientists do not ignore these questions. At all times, there are people working to find how evolution, and abiogenesis, works. I have never heard of a biologist that ignores these questions. But, most scientists think that it is better to admit that they don't know how it happened, than to blame the fabricated deities of underdeveloped sand-people. Evolution is also acknowledged by people like William Lane Craig.
Pomme843 6 months ago
@Pomme843 I never built a house from the ROOF DOWN!!!!!! And that is what you are telling me they are doing!!!!! You say they KNOW where we are now and they assume that we got here through changes and one day long ago we (sinking foundation right here)were a one celled organism that came from NOWHERE!!
Would you PLEASE stop waiting on other people to tell you what to THINK POMME!!!! Do you not realize if you would JUST THINK IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE HAPPENED TO SAYING WE JUST DONT KNOW??
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@Pomme843 How do you explain astro physisits such as HUGH ROSS who give reasons to believe? ARE HIS ARGUEMENTS SILLY??? And I would LOVE to see HITCHENS DEBATE HIM!!! Because I am sorry but HUGH ROSS Understands FAR MORE then hitchens does about the things hitchens claims to debate. The only thing hitchens is good at is making something seem foolish by interjecting NONSENSE into it. By replacing words with silly words such as UNICORNS for GOD and using a STERN VOICE to deliver it!! I DO THAT!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@Pomme843 Its very SIMPLE thinking to say EVOLUTION. I didnt ask for the MEANS or what your Opinion is.. I am asking you RATIONALLY, How can you go from a one celled organism to a fully grown man over millions of years when man only lived on earth in his current state for 10,000 how did he procreate when we didnt have sex organs and how long did it take to devolop them.
Under YOUR extimation it takes Hundreds of thousands of years.. I am asking you how is it POSSIBLE without man dying off.
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@Pomme843 As you Atheists LOVE to say..... SAYING "EVOLUTION" ONLY BEGINS THE QUESTION.
please describe what you mean by EVOLUTION. Because if what you mean is man came from a one celled organism then you must also explain how it could POSSIBLY have changed from one cell to a fully grown man. I am only asking for a Rational POSSIBILITY. EXPLAINED thoroughly. I am not even asking for exacts. And you cant even give one way it POSSIBLY happened. SAYING EVOLUTION HAPPENED isnt EXPLAINING anything!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec One cell to fully grown human? Are you ignorant or a poe? The answer is 9 months in a womb and 16-18 years out of it (the time out will depend on your definition of fully grown human).
Also, given the facts about how reproduction happens, and the environment, evolution by natural selection is logically sound, before we even TRY to back it up with observed evidence of its occurence. It would be a downright miracle if it DIDN'T happen.
bignastydragon 6 months ago
@bignastydragon That first part is true but it happening in 9 months has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about and one cell to a Full grown man as far as BIRTH Goes IS a miracle! In the sense that you are describing it then what you are saying is the first man to walk TOTALLY EVOLVED in 9 months without a Womb BUT in Womb like conditions out of the water? and he is ever evolving since?/ That sounds like total nonsense. And you call that backing up evolution against my argument? NONSENSE
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I know that's not what you meant, but it would answer the question how you worded it. Go to TalkOrigins to see the long answer about how we evolved from single celled organisms, 500 character posts can never do it justice and I don't think you'll just accept the answer 'evolution'.
Birth isn't a miracle, it's perfectly natural and happens very regularly. As to the modern survival rate of human birth, that's down to medical science, not miracles.
bignastydragon 6 months ago
@bignastydragon You fail to see that SCIENCE just shows you HOW it happened. IT DOES NOT SHOW THE CAUSE.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@Pomme843 The age of the earth is NOT found in Carbon Dating though Carbon dating may be able to tell you the age of things ON the earth. And as far as I am concerned, The bible deals with AGE OF MAN. NOT age of the earth. It is clear from the bible that what God did in relation to MAN was done in 7 Days. What it does NOT say is how long there is between GOD CREATING THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, which is first, and then the Days. And no one can claim to know from reading it.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Please prove 2000 years biblical creation. Oh wait, no one's 2000 years old. You lose.
glassbrain 9 months ago
@glassbrain Dont need to prove that because it doesnt matter. I dont lose.... You make stupid arguments about things you know nothing about.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec point and laugh
glassbrain 6 months ago
@glassbrain makes you cool I know. But please contribute instead of being an ass
abeeftec 6 months ago
@glassbrain Can ANYONE Debate without being a smart ass and throwing Insulting comments CONSTANTLY.
It is really getting old. Shesh you all make me want to cuss you out over and over again and then get called nuts which you already do so imagine if I just said FU! And then went on! That would contribute about as much as you are from your comments. AND NO ONE SAYS THE CREATION IS ONLY 2000 YEARS OLD SO PLEASE SAY SOMETHING THAT TEACHES YOUR SIDE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SOUND COOL.
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@abeeftec How do you prove anything beyond the shadow of a doubt? And what's the point?
Pomme843 9 months ago
@abeeftec any scientist you hick retard
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem Wow I am a hick retard as opposed to you who brings nothing but an Insult to this instead of anything real because you really dont have anything real to contribute so to make yourself feel better you insult. Typical of one who has no answers... You better just read instead of trying to comment. You make a perfect arguement for there being a real problem with your side.. Which of course you accuse my side of often for insulting you if we dont have an answer yet thats what you DO!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec you believe in creationism, it's pointless trying to present you with evidence.
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem You can keep saying that but I do not necessarily beleive as you think I do. I believe there HAS to be a way to rectify scientific stance and Creationism. YET everyone thinks EVOLUTION is the reason creationism falls to the ground. And if you look above this at the arguement I am having with Pomme843 You will see WHY I stand where I do that evolution is a farce. I DO believe that humans can mutate but NOT in the same ignorant way you do.
abeeftec 6 months ago
Read above and then tell me why I am OFF for thinking the way I do. AND if you keep running around saying I am a creationist when you dont know what I am then you are making yourself a bigger fool for not explaining your position but just agreeing with the air is what you are doing. because you cannot show even good reason for why you believe the way you do. EVOLUTION WITHOUT ORIGINS IS NONSENSE!!!! But since you can prove Mutations happen you accept the lie you heard since childhood
abeeftec 6 months ago
Do you really think that because Creationism has been proved unsubstantiated in a court of law that means that what you were taught as a child, you were taught without an agenda?? ORIGINS USED TO BE SYSTEMATIC WITH EVOLUTION BUT IT WAS REMOVED SO THAT EVOLUTION BASED ON MUTATIONS COULD BE CALLED TRUTH. But if you think about it long enough you realize NO PENIS can GROW IN A DAY.
abeeftec 6 months ago
and since these mutations happen over THOUSANDS of years the human race would have died off once it could not 1 cell reproduce anymore waiting for sexual organs to show up!! There is NO WAY a penis just appears in ONE mutation!!! And if you believe that a man who is born with 4 fingers is US IN THE PAST and a man born with 6 fingers is US in the future then you really are putting a lot of faith in nonsene. Because what about when two people are joinedtogether at birth? Is that ALSO FUTURE US?
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec evolution is not the reason creationism fails. it is the complete lack of evidence, carbon dating etc. your argument seems to be on the origin of life, that is a seperate theory. if you believe in mutation you believe in evolution. you also seem to believe man hasn't changed at all in the last 2000 years but you are wrong on that two, and your evolution of the penis theory is ridiculous and i use that in its literal sense, it is worthy of ridicule
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem The PENIS is a THEORY, I am not even thinking in THEORY.. This is what is POSSIBLE. You just really dont get that there is no freaken way a Penis can grow on a body that is not really man until some day there is a man but before he procreated with the penis he used to just multiply by metamorphoseus!!!! THAT IS PATHETIC!!! Because somewhere between being a one celled organism that only logical next step from there is a TWO celled organism.. Then a THREE until you have cells!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
Then more and more and more... UNtil you have WHAT??? A FOOT?? OR a little tiny man??? WHEN DOES A FREAKEN GROUP OF CELLS BECOME SOMETHING WITHOUT ALREADY BEING THAT SOMETHING???
OR from one thing to ANOTHER??? OH was it butterflylike??? Did he go into a cocoon a group of cells and then come out a tadpole? and then do it again to become another thing and then another and again another!! Until one day he grew a NEO CORTEX and Was found within himself WISEST of all BEASTS! And so He WAS MAN!!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@abeeftec NOTHING TO SAY TO THIS COMMENT??? STILL NO ONE BRINGS ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE ON YOUR SIDE OTHER THEN TO SAY ...... YOU LOSE or HITCHENS IS A SMART GUY!!
That is the extent of ANY of your arguements. And you bring NOTHING to the table but that.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@peteymandem You dont see that the natural Progression of ONE CELL,that can only reproduce itself is that it EVOLVE INTO TWO CELLS?And then eventually as its growing more and more cells there is a change in time somwhere where the GROUP OF CELLS IS REPRODUCING THE OLD WAY to USING HUMAN SEXUAL ORGANS?PLEASE tell me just one good way that could have happend using times LENGTHS of time.Because seriously you have a real problem when that group of cells that reproduces only itself has to use organ
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec no scientist has ever claimed that the penis came about in one go, you do not have an argument. the reason you have a problem with evolution is because you don't understand it.
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem YOU ARE MAKING MY ARGUMENT FOR ME!!!! You are Correct they dont!! And SO TELL ME, When does it CEASE To be NO PENIS and then BECOME ONE??? With One cell growing at the pelvic region of the Penisless man who up until this point had to procreate by OSMOSSIS!!! But at the same time THAT SAME GOD CALLED CHANCE had to give him a brain so he would know to stop procreating by recreating only a mock image of itself and must now find a FEMALE group of cells with one cell of a vagina
abeeftec 6 months ago
....And he will have to TELL HER HE KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS ONE CELL AND IF THEY DONT THEY WILL DIE OFF AS A SPECIES BECAUSE THEY CAN NO LONGER PROCREATE BY OSMOSSIS and MUST use their ONE CELLED SEX ORGANS!!!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
Hey are you starting to even get the point yet?? You still are going to let scientists think for you and blind you to the fact that there is NO FREAKEN WAY IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT COULD HAPPEN UNLESS THERE WAS A GOD TO DO IT BECAUSE IF IT WERE UP TO PHYSICS AND CHANCE THERE IS NO DAMN WAY THE ONE CELL REPRODUCES ANYTHING ELSE BUT ITSELF. So please, think before you say what you heard other people say. Because I can tell you are not getting what i am saying at all. Its pretty bad too.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec you haven't even the most basic grasp of evolution. man was not the first species to have a penis.
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem Haha. You are funny. First, it is irrelevant that man is the first or millionth species to have a penis. THAT has no bearing on the debate. And I get tired of you people telling me that but you dont post your definition of what it means ever. And you hurl about how I dont know about it. It is taught in schools people!! give me a break. That is stuff EVERYONE gets taught. And I KNOW it is Agenda Based that they dropped ORIGINS from EVOLUTION to make it fact based on MUTATIONS
abeeftec 6 months ago
@peteymandem I never even suggested that. You haven't even the most basic grasp of understanding what you read. I NEVER said man was the first species to have a penis you moron
abeeftec 2 months ago
@abeeftec osmossis is not reproduction, you haven't even the slightest grasp of evolution. at what point does a person become old? seriously answer the question it may seem irrelevant but the answer will help you understand evolution.
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem Thats the second time you say I dont have the slightest Grasp while OFFERING NOTHING in regards to it. And what does a person getting old have to do with anything? And the answer has nothing to do with man going ALL THE WAY from 1 CELL to a human. The reproduction is TOTALY different and in since man lives only 70 80 years he could not have EVOLVED in thousands of years because he would have died off while having no way to reproduce. Unless you are saying there is more then 1 way?
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@abeeftec Just adding that I have NO GRASP of evolution DOESNT EXPLAIN WHAT I AM ASKING!!! And I am not saying The one celled creature had NO PENIS and then he REPRODUCED WITH ONE in ONE SHOT. What I am saying is that there is NO WAY it can happen in ONE GO OR A MILLION GOES!!! What you are saying is that the ONE CELL KNOWS WHAT IT WILL BECOME SOME DAY which sounds to me like PLANNING. Like A CERTAIN COURSE OF EVENTS WHICH IS CONTRARY TO EVERYTHING HAPPENING BY CHANCE.
abeeftec 6 months ago
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@abeeftec and i quote 'With One cell growing at the pelvic region of the Penisless man who up until this point had to procreate by OSMOSSIS!!!' you assume that the theory of evolution says that man had no penis and then got a penis. no, an animal had a penis it evolved into us. 'since man lives only 70 80 years he could not have EVOLVED in thousands of years because he would have died off while having no way to reproduce.' that is the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard.
peteymandem 2 months ago
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@peteymandem OSMOSSIS WAS MY WAY OF BEING JUST AS RIDICULOUS AS YOUR SIDE USING UNICORN IN PLACE OF GOD!! Dont act like you can be as SNIDE as you want but then when I am you are going to act as if that is what I REALLY MEANT!
You people are prima donnas that dont even think for yourself. When you can explain your views then get into the arguement! Just saying,"Yer Stupit Abeeftec" Doesnt SAY ANYTHING!!! And saying I dont understand IS NO SIDE OF AN ARGUEMENT!! YOU OFFER NOTHING
abeeftec 6 months ago
@peteymandem Thats a stupid point to even try to make because I didnt make the assumption that it happened in one go! My point is NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TOOK there was ONE second when there was a change from reproducing ONLY ITSELF(the one cell but millions of them at this point) to using our current method of reproduction. And PLEASE tell me how that could be possible?
And I possibly understand it better then you do! And that IS the typical answer of someone who cannot explain their position!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec you say this 'I didnt make the assumption that it happened in one go' and then you say this 'there was ONE second when there was a change from reproducing ONLY ITSELF' You have completely failed and contradicted yourself within one comment. you know nothing of evolution. it did not suddenly switch in one second
peteymandem 6 months ago
@peteymandem Please bring something worthy to this conversation. I did NOT contradict myself. You didnt read clearly. The first was speaking about Going from ONE CELL THAT CAN ONLY REPRODUCE ITSELF to a HUMAN who needs TWO PEOPLE and TWO SEXUAL ORGANS TO REPRODUCE. Speaking about ONE GO was in reference to CELLS GROWING A ONE CELLED PENIS all the while STILL being able to reproduce ALL BY ITSELF, You know, the group of cells? Because that is HOW they were and the PENIS is HOW we do.
abeeftec 6 months ago